Gone Girl (2014)

[VCRTracking]

Yep. When a horrified Margo realizes "You want to stay with her!" and Ben Affleck has that expression which isn't a denial and you realize while he might not be as psychotic or murderous as Amy, he's just as fucked in his own way.

 

 

[ribboninthesky1]

It's always interesting to read different perspectives - I read the book, and I always thought that Amy's mind games weren't reality for Nick.  As in, I think SHE thought he admired her much more than he did.  Much of the book is from Amy's perspective, and I never believed her perception was any sort of reality about their relationship. Nick has his own issues, for example, his deep-seated misogyny, but I never thought he was severely delusional.   

 

If I recall correctly from the book, he planned to ask for a divorce the day before or the day of her disappearance, but the whole anniversary thing killed his nerve. And I believed he stayed because of the baby.  There was a significant amount of book time spent on how he perceived his own father, and how he didn't want to be his father.  None of which has to do with Amy. Matter of fact, I thought she pulled the pregnancy card as a last resort because she knew he was slipping away.     

 

Ultimately, I think Nick married someone like Amy because he would never be able to maintain a relationship with an emotionally healthy, fairly self-reliant woman. He'd actually have to like women and see them as whole human beings to do so. Book!Nick managed to mentally blame just about every woman in his life in some way for his actions and decisions.  The minute a woman with a healthy backbone held him accountable for anything, he'd chafe. I still believe him to be a victim of emotional abuse, much like women who get involved with psychopathic men. But victims of emotional abuse aren't saints, either.        

 

If it was Nick instead of Amy as the psychopath, would anyone believe his perspective accurate about their relationship? Interesting that's the direction the movie went. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Ultimately, I think Nick married someone like Amy because he would never be able to maintain a relationship with an emotionally healthy, fairly self-reliant woman. He'd actually have to like women and see them as whole human beings to do so. Book!Nick managed to mentally blame just about every woman in his life in some way for his actions and decisions.  The minute a woman with a healthy backbone held him accountable for anything, he'd chafe. I still believe him to be a victim of emotional abuse, much like women who get involved with psychopathic men. But victims of emotional abuse aren't saints, either.        

 

If it was Nick instead of Amy as the psychopath, would anyone believe his perspective accurate about their relationship? Interesting that's the direction the movie went. 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not we'd "believe" Nick's perspective. Whichever perspective we're looking at it from, Amy is crazier than Nick could ever dream of being, and she killed a man in the course of framing her husband for her disappearance and "murder." Those are facts, not POV. Nick doesn't have to be a saint, and I'm troubled by the idea that him not being one makes what Amy did, what she might have done if he hadn't complied with her insanity, somehow acceptable. It just smacks of "he was asking for it," and....yeah,no, IMO.

 

Was Nick the best husband? No. Did he have an affair with someone wildly inappropriate, in as much as affairs are ever appropriate? Yes. Did that cause all of his problems with Amy? Wellllllll......no, again IMO. If it hadn't been the affair with Andie, Amy's sick little mind would probably have decided he was slipping away from her for some other reason, something that maybe had to do less with reality. Go didn't seem to care for her, either in the book or the movie, and eventually Boney decided she didn't believe the "kidnapping" story. Was their perspective also skewed, and if so, why and how? Margo I could believe, as she was Nick's sister, but Boney? It makes no sense that a police detective with no emotional attachment to Nick, and who in fact initially strongly believed that he'd done something terrible to Amy, would randomly change her mind and decide that the "victim" was a liar. That doesn't parse for me at all.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[blixie]

 

Much of the book is from Amy's perspective, and I never believed her perception was any sort of reality about their relationship.

 

This so much, it's why I can't get on board with the Cool Girl speech, she so fundamentally misunderstands that Nick did NOT want a Cool Girl, he came from a place rife with Cool Girls.  He went to Manhattan to escape midwest mediocrity and Cool Girl world, he went to attain some class and be more than just a fratty schmuck. He wanted a woman who represented class/intelligence, he wanted an Ice Queen, and he knew Amy was an Ice Queen, he just decided after he had the Ice Queen that that SUCKED, and the fact that she couldn't see what a poser he was, that he was pretending to be someone he wasn't far better than she ever did is one of my favorite ironies of the book/movie. 

[LeGrandElephant]

Nick isn't a saint, but I don't think he came anywhere close to deserving the things Amy did. Also, in the movie at least, I didn't get much of a sense of misogyny from Nick - I don't think I would have thought of it at all if I hadn't read the comments here. He was hateful towards Amy but that seems pretty rational - I wouldn't extrapolate that to hatred towards women in general. It sounds like maybe he had internal monologues in the book that were overtly misogynistic and that didn't make it into the movie - but just based on the movie, his attitude towards Amy seems pretty reasonable given how terrifying she is. (And at the beginning of the movie, he doesn't know the full extent of her psychopathy, but I think he senses deep down that she's seriously off, and I think that informs his attitude towards their marriage.)

 

Imagine if the gender roles were reversed - if a woman were trapped in that situation with a controlling man who was using her child to keep her hostage and had shown he was willing to destroy her and to kill women he was intimate with - I think anyone who suggested she deserved it or wanted it or liked it would be met with a chorus of outrage. 

Edited June 26, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[VCRTracking]

In a way Nick and Amy both had twins. The difference of course is that one is real and one is not. Nick had one of the opposite gender, Margo. A woman who could give him tough love and tell him what an asshole he's being and be his voice of reason. As bad as Nick was, he would probably be a worse person if Margo hadn't been around.

 

Amy's twin is of the same gender: "Amazing Amy", a fictional daughter created by her parents to be more "perfect". Famous and always better than her at everything she failed at and who even gets married first. Amy doesn't think of herself as "Amazing Amy" the way her parents and others do. She talks about her like a separate person. A sibling whom she resented and was jealous of her whole life. It's a big reason why she turned out so messed up. In the end when she's at the event with all those adoring people wanting her autograph, it's like she finally beat her imaginary twin.

 

Amy couldn't love or get love from "Amazing Amy" but Nick always had that with "Go". As she said, "since before we were even born."

Edited June 26, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Jediknight]

Yep. When a horrified Margo realizes "You want to stay with her!" and Ben Affleck has that expression which isn't a denial and you realize while he might not be as psychotic or murderous as Amy, he's just as fucked in his own way.

It's just like Tanner said "I swear you 2 are the most fucked up people I've ever known, and I specialize in fucked up."

Edited June 26, 2015 by Jediknight

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not we'd "believe" Nick's perspective. Whichever perspective we're looking at it from, Amy is crazier than Nick could ever dream of being, and she killed a man in the course of framing her husband for her disappearance and "murder." Those are facts, not POV. Nick doesn't have to be a saint, and I'm troubled by the idea that him not being one makes what Amy did, what she might have done if he hadn't complied with her insanity, somehow acceptable. It just smacks of "he was asking for it," and....yeah,no, IMO.

 

I brought up the question because I do think Nick was a victim, and I didn't understand why Amy's evaluation of Nick was considered the truth, as if he was a conscious and willing participant in Amy's games.  You quoted my post, so not sure where you're getting the implied "he was asking for it." It's certainly nowhere in my post. I don't think book!Nick liked women, but that doesn't mean I thought he deserved what he got. I was explaining why I thought his issues with women led to him marrying someone like Amy. I doubt he could handle a healthy relationship with a woman because of his own issues.  It's no different than a woman being in fucked up relationships because of her personal issues - doesn't mean she deserves abuse, emotional or otherwise. But it might explain why she chooses a certain kind of man. That's what my post was about regarding Nick. I'm well-aware of the facts from the book.  

 

 

This so much, it's why I can't get on board with the Cool Girl speech, she so fundamentally misunderstands that Nick did NOT want a Cool Girl, he came from a place rife with Cool Girls.  

 

I think the Cool Girl spiel had some insight to it, but you know, broken clocks are correct twice a day and all that. It's about the only part of Amy's thought process that comes across coherent.  I'm sure the author intentionally included that to make Amy more sympathetic, and it worked - that seemed to resonate with a lot of female readers.  

 

That said, I thought Nick got with Amy because he believed she was easy (to be with) and all about him, just like the college student he eventually had the affair with.  

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I brought up the question because I do think Nick was a victim, and I didn't understand why Amy's evaluation of Nick was considered the truth, as if he was a conscious and willing participant in Amy's games.  You quoted my post, so not sure where you're getting the implied "he was asking for it." It's certainly nowhere in my post. I don't think book!Nick liked women, but that doesn't mean I thought he deserved what he got. I was explaining why I thought his issues with women led to him marrying someone like Amy. I doubt he could handle a healthy relationship with a woman because of his own issues.  It's no different than a woman being in fucked up relationships because of her personal issues - doesn't mean she deserves abuse, emotional or otherwise. But it might explain why she chooses a certain kind of man. That's what my post was about regarding Nick. I'm well-aware of the facts from the book.  

 

 

You said:

 

Ultimately, I think Nick married someone like Amy because he would never be able to maintain a relationship with an emotionally healthy, fairly self-reliant woman. He'd actually have to like women and see them as whole human beings to do so. Book!Nick managed to mentally blame just about every woman in his life in some way for his actions and decisions.  The minute a woman with a healthy backbone held him accountable for anything, he'd chafe. I still believe him to be a victim of emotional abuse, much like women who get involved with psychopathic men. But victims of emotional abuse aren't saints, either.        

 

If it was Nick instead of Amy as the psychopath, would anyone believe his perspective accurate about their relationship? Interesting that's the direction the movie went.

 

If I misread that what you meant was that he was asking for it/deserved what he got, then that's what it came from. As was said upthread, I never got any indication from Movie!Nick that he didn't like women. And his sister had enough backbone to tell him what a moron he was for having an affair, and from what I can recall he didn't argue with her.

 

Also, why bring up that "victims of emotional abuse aren't saints", as if that has anything to do with it? The relative goodness, or lack of goodness, someone possesses doesn't mean they can't get into a fucked-up situation and not be able to get out of it. In this case, Amy hung the impending baby around Nick's neck like an anchor chain, and it was only his need to be seen as The Good Guy that kept him from either walking out right then or breaking her damn neck. I think that merits a bit of "chafing." But YMMV.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[ribboninthesky1]

Yeah, you're completely misreading my posts. It happens. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'm going to be honest: as good as Rosamund Pike was as Amy (and, Anglophile that I am, I'm always thrilled when British actors hit the A-list), I don't think she holds a candle to Julia Whelan's portrayal in the audiobook. Whelan (whom my fellow Gen-Y-ers might remember as Grace from Once and Again) really, really captures the calculating psychosis, bitter anger, and smug, catlike satisfaction that makes up Amy Elliot Dunne, and, boy, does she deliver the "Cool Girl" rant with relish. 

[Rinaldo]

I can see a lot of actors (Affleck included) as Nick -- we almost seem to breed Nicks as a national type: pleasant and initially plausible and likable, but in fact not quite grown up or disciplined about his life. Amy seems much the trickier acting challenge to me.

 

 

I can see a lot of actors (Affleck included) as Nick -- we almost seem to breed Nicks as a national type: pleasant and initially plausible and likable, but in fact not quite grown up or disciplined about his life. Amy seems much the trickier acting challenge to me.

I know coincidences happen, but this seems like a rather big one. Was it maybe a momentary intention to quote me from the first page of this thread, that instead of being discarded got accidentally posted? Clearly it was an innocent accident of some sort, but one can imagine my puzzlement and amusement as I think "Yep, I agree with that, I could have written it myself... wait a minute, I think I did."

Edited June 27, 2015 by Rinaldo

[turbogirlnyc]

I'm going to be honest: as good as Rosamund Pike was as Amy (and, Anglophile that I am, I'm always thrilled when British actors hit the A-list), I don't think she holds a candle to Julia Whelan's portrayal in the audiobook. Whelan (whom my fellow Gen-Y-ers might remember as Grace from Once and Again) really, really captures the calculating psychosis, bitter anger, and smug, catlike satisfaction that makes up Amy Elliot Dunne, and, boy, does she deliver the "Cool Girl" rant with relish. 

 

I haven't listened to the audiobook and based on your post, I might just do that. To Rosamund Pike's credit, wouldn't the way she portrayed the character and delivered the Cool Girl rant be up to the director? I ask because I honestly don't know. I think RP did a fabulous job in the role. Her performance, her accents, her facial expressions were amazing. I admit that something about her looks threw me off but maybe that's because I imagined differently when I read the book.

 

Tyler Perry knocked it out of the ballpark as Tanner Bolt. Loved every second he was on the screen. However, when I read the book, I pictured an arrogant Matthew McConaughey with a spray tan. The book and movie character were very different, in my opinion. Tyler Perry was spot on for the movie character.

Edited July 2, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[Shannon L.]

 

To Rosamund Pike's credit, wouldn't the way she portrayed the character and delivered the Cool Girl rant be up to the director?

Yes, the director has the final say.  I read a script once that had, what I thought were rather amusing scenes, ,but when I saw the movie, the actress played it as almost sullen.  When I brought it up to my husband friends who know a bit more about how the industry works, they all said "that was the director's choice.  The director sets the mood." 

[Rinaldo]

A good director, though, will be collaborative with the actors (the stars at least), they'll talk it over beforehand so it doesn't seem dictatorial (good acting doesn't flourish at gunpoint), and it's possible for a smart director to insinuate ideas to an actor so that eventually they think they thought it up themselves. Actors at this level will have ideas of their own, but they know that part of the process is for everybody to get into the same state of mind so that the final product fits together. And certainly David Fincher is known for having very precise ideas about the look and sound and pacing of his movies (probably more so than many directors), and everybody knows that before they sign on.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Rinaldo

[Shannon L.]

 

A good director, though, will be collaborative with the actors (the stars at least), they'll talk it over beforehand so it doesn't seem dictatorial (good acting doesn't flourish at gunpoint), and it's possible for a smart director to insinuate ideas to an actor so that eventually they think they thought it up themselves. Actors at this level will have ideas of their own, but they know that part of the process is for everybody to get into the same state of mind so that the final product fits together.

Excellent point.  Unfortunately, the director in the movie I was talking about wasn't at David Fincher's level, nor was the actress anywhere near Rosamund Pike's realm. 

[Dejana]

David Fincher is pretty notorious for doing dozens of takes for every scene, with several of his actors finding it difficult/draining. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are twenty different readings of the Cool Girl scene on a hard drive somewhere in the vault.

[yourstruly]

David Fincher is pretty notorious for doing dozens of takes for every scene, with several of his actors finding it difficult/draining. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are twenty different readings of the Cool Girl scene on a hard drive somewhere in the vault.

I read somewhere that he made Affleck and Pike do close to 20 takes of the scene where Nick smashes Amy's head into the wall. An assistant director noticed that Pike was reeling and having a hard time staying upright and forced Fincher to stop.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Rosmund's career over here cooled off  quite a bit after this film.

Edited January 19, 2020 by MrsRafaelBarba

[topanga]

9 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Rosmund's career over here cooled off  quite a bit after this film.

She’s been working steadily, but there’s not on anything I recognize. 

[Anela]

I think she was in a Tom Cruise movie that my dad was watching last night, but I don't know how old that was. 

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

I think she was in a Tom Cruise movie that my dad was watching last night, but I don't know how old that was. 

Jack Reacher. She was supposed to be more involved in that movie, but she was quite pregnant.

She did an Oscar-baity movie last year (two years ago now, I guess) about reporter Marie Colvin called A Private War. She's got the Marie Curie biopic coming out this year and The Wheel of Time series for Amazon coming out in 2021.

There's a series on The Ringer website called The Rewatchables. A lot of them are podcasts, but some are videos on YouTube and the episode for this movie is one of them.

 

[aghst]

I'd see this movie on a flight, vaguely recalled it except she was framing him.

Just watched it again -- didn't read the book.

Why did Nick become disaffected with Amy?  The reason she grew to hate him is obvious, he took her out of NY, took all her money, shut her out of everything, leaving her at home and then was cheating.

She was too much of a nag about getting stuck in MO?  Or she dropped her Cool Girl thing, stopped doing all the sexual favors she says she did to win him over.

Before she turned into a criminal mastermind, trying to get him killed and eventually murdering someone else, what did she do or not do to make Nick want to avoid her and eventually have an affair?  Actually the last one, because he's a guy and as Go said, a liar and cheater just like their father.

She was ready to send Nick to the gas chamber -- or whatever they use in MO -- but then when it was either being a sex slave to Doogie or forcing Nick to stay with her she chose the latter?

 

I don't believe she could murder though.  It's one thing for bookish Amy to plan out the frame job meticulously.  When she had to improvise, because she let her guard down against the hick Bonnie & Clyde in the Ozarks, she basically walked into Desi's prison?

It's one thing to plan the long con but  to frame Desi -- what was the bottle for, to prove Desi sexually assaulted her? -- on the second night in the lake house is incredible.

She slashed his throat on the first try too.  If she was panicked and afraid for her life, she might cut him on his torso first and then maybe while he's shocked finish the job with the instant kill on the carotid artery.

Forensics would suggest that she cut his throat and then got on top of him while he was incapacitated.

 

[MadyGirl1987]

12 minutes ago, aghst said:

Why did Nick become disaffected with Amy?  The reason she grew to hate him is obvious, he took her out of NY, took all her money, shut her out of everything, leaving her at home and then was cheating.

She was too much of a nag about getting stuck in MO?  Or she dropped her Cool Girl thing, stopped doing all the sexual favors she says she did to win him over.

It's been a while since I've seen the movie or read the book, but I think it was that he was unhappy where his life had led and looked for fulfilment elsewhere?

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, aghst said:

Why did Nick become disaffected with Amy?  The reason she grew to hate him is obvious, he took her out of NY, took all her money, shut her out of everything, leaving her at home and then was cheating.

She was too much of a nag about getting stuck in MO?  Or she dropped her Cool Girl thing, stopped doing all the sexual favors she says she did to win him over.

Before she turned into a criminal mastermind, trying to get him killed and eventually murdering someone else, what did she do or not do to make Nick want to avoid her and eventually have an affair?  Actually the last one, because he's a guy and as Go said, a liar and cheater just like their father

Well, and this is more clear in the book, Amy was a manipulative sociopath that liked to try on different personalities to make people like her. She spent the first years of their marriage literally pretending to be someone else, and when she got tired of it and dropped the act, Nick didn’t like the person she really was (a type A control freak), the only problem was, he didn’t realize it yet, he just thought she “changed.” And Amy resented Nick because in her POV he preferred Cool Amy to Real Amy.

And lest we forget, Nick wasn’t the first guy she did this to. There was the ex-boyfriend she falsely accused of rape when he dumped her, and (in the book) the high school best friend who she accused of stalking her just because all their classmates liked her better than Amy.

Nick was certainly no saint, but I can’t blame him for falling out of love with Amy because her toxicity began to show.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[aghst]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:19 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Well, and this is more clear in the book, Amy was a manipulative sociopath that liked to try on different personalities to make people like her. She spent the first years of their marriage literally pretending to be someone else, and when she got tired of it and dropped the act, Nick didn’t like the person she really was (a type A control freak), the only problem was, he didn’t realize it yet, he just thought she “changed.” And Amy resented Nick because in her POV he preferred Cool Amy to Real Amy.

And lest we forget, Nick wasn’t the first guy she did this to. There was the ex-boyfriend she falsely accused of rape when he dumped her, and (in the book) the high school best friend who she accused of stalking her just because all their classmates liked her better than Amy.

Nick was certainly no saint, but I can’t blame him for falling out of love with Amy because her toxicity began to show.

 

 

Been listening a little to the audio book.

So far I haven't come across the manipulative Amy.

One thing is Amy has disappeared and they've done the press conference with her parents but Amy's entries are still back when they're still in NY.

It was their third anniversary and he took his co-workers out to drink while she was waiting at home for him, with plans she had made, while he spent her money to buy drinks and flirt with waitresses.

When he got home he was resentful about the prenup and she never having to worry about money.

Meanwhile she was thinking how she was the cool chick, always being available sexually and not being demanding of him, not making him give up his hobbies, like other women, etc.

Obviously Amy is warped, since she's capable of murder..  But her accounts, at least so far, seems like believable accumulations of resentments, as she was aware how screwed-up his misogynist father was.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Been listening a little to the audio book.

So far I haven't come across the manipulative Amy.

One thing is Amy has disappeared and they've done the press conference with her parents but Amy's entries are still back when they're still in NY.

It was their third anniversary and he took his co-workers out to drink while she was waiting at home for him, with plans she had made, while he spent her money to buy drinks and flirt with waitresses.

When he got home he was resentful about the prenup and she never having to worry about money.

Meanwhile she was thinking how she was the cool chick, always being available sexually and not being demanding of him, not making him give up his hobbies, like other women, etc.

Obviously Amy is warped, since she's capable of murder..  But her accounts, at least so far, seems like believable accumulations of resentments, as she was aware how screwed-up his misogynist father was.

Uhhhhhhh….you need to keep reading to part 2. That’s all I’ll say.

[Crashcourse]

On 8/7/2023 at 10:19 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Well, and this is more clear in the book, Amy was a manipulative sociopath that liked to try on different personalities to make people like her. She spent the first years of their marriage literally pretending to be someone else, and when she got tired of it and dropped the act, Nick didn’t like the person she really was (a type A control freak), the only problem was, he didn’t realize it yet, he just thought she “changed.” And Amy resented Nick because in her POV he preferred Cool Amy to Real Amy.

And lest we forget, Nick wasn’t the first guy she did this to. There was the ex-boyfriend she falsely accused of rape when he dumped her, and (in the book) the high school best friend who she accused of stalking her just because all their classmates liked her better than Amy.

Nick was certainly no saint, but I can’t blame him for falling out of love with Amy because her toxicity began to show.

 

 

I read the book and was so disgusted with Amy that I didn't watch the movie.  I hated her so much that I can't even watch Rosamund Pike in anything else and it's a shame because it's not her fault.  

[Emily Thrace]

On 8/19/2023 at 5:07 PM, aghst said:

Been listening a little to the audio book.

So far I haven't come across the manipulative Amy.

One thing is Amy has disappeared and they've done the press conference with her parents but Amy's entries are still back when they're still in NY.

It was their third anniversary and he took his co-workers out to drink while she was waiting at home for him, with plans she had made, while he spent her money to buy drinks and flirt with waitresses.

When he got home he was resentful about the prenup and she never having to worry about money.

Meanwhile she was thinking how she was the cool chick, always being available sexually and not being demanding of him, not making him give up his hobbies, like other women, etc.

Obviously Amy is warped, since she's capable of murder..  But her accounts, at least so far, seems like believable accumulations of resentments, as she was aware how screwed-up his misogynist father was.

Something to keep in mind is the diary is something Amy wrote to incriminate Nick not necessarily the gospel truth. It's likely his anger and resentment were exaggerated to make him look guilty. 

[bluegirl147]

I read the book when it first came out. Loved it till the last page.  But I made my peace with it.  When the movie came out I knew people who went to see it and were pissed at the ending.  By that point the ending didn't bother me because I knew it was coming.  But my friends were so upset about it.  But one thing we could agree on.  While Nick was a bad husband Amy was a bad human being.

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

 But one thing we could agree on.  While Nick was a bad husband Amy was a bad human being.

More than fair.

I still like Gone Girl, but, ye gods, I am so sick of all the knock-offs. Trends are inevitable in fiction, but this feels especially tiresome.

[Spartan Girl]

5 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

More than fair.

I still like Gone Girl, but, ye gods, I am so sick of all the knock-offs. Trends are inevitable in fiction, but this feels especially tiresome.

And most of the knock-offs aren’t even half as clever or well-written as Gone Girl was.

I dunno, Nick certainly was a bad husband for cheating, but being married to someone like Amy could corrupt a saint.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And most of the knock-offs aren’t even half as clever or well-written as Gone Girl was.

A couple years after Gone Girl I read Girl on the Train which I thought was just as good as Gone Girl.

3 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I dunno, Nick certainly was a bad husband for cheating, but being married to someone like Amy could corrupt a saint.

Yeah it was hard to not  have some sympathy for Nick. Would Nick have cheated on any wife or was it being married to Amy that made him a cheater? 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yeah it was hard to not  have some sympathy for Nick. Would Nick have cheated on any wife or was it being married to Amy that made him a cheater? 

I'd say it was fifty-fifty. The Amy Nick thought he was married to was not the "real" Amy, for one thing. Rather, she was a persona created in equal parts for her parents and for her future husband. All of her talk about the Cool Girl was an act that she put on for him, but before that she was the Good Daughter for her folks, who used her as an example in the books they wrote. We never really know if her parents knew how awful Amy was, but I think at some point Go felt like something was amiss, just never in a way she could put her finger on. See her devastation when she realizes Nick is going to remain in the marriage, despite and/or because of Amy's vile tactics.

The real Amy, though, is the one who resorts to murder after two yokels treated her more roughly than she was used to. She cuts Desi's throat because he thought he could blackmail her into doing what he wanted, and he was stupid enough to let her that close because he believed the persona. So yes, Nick was probably never going to be a great husband, but he also probably never stood a chance after Amy was involved in his life.