S02.E18: The Frenemy Of My Enemy

[shrewd.buddha]

The Inhumans seem like a bunch of a-holes. What a demanding bunch of divas. 

They are really kind of racist, aren't they?

"We don't care if other people get killed -- they are not one of us."

"Cal has to leave -- he is not one of us." 

"Raina can stay and be trained with us -- she only killed humans." 

 

I know it goes with the territory, but it bugs that Skye-flake never asks any significant questions (and seems to have no interest in computers anymore).

Why does she not ask about what happened to make Cal  crazy/angry? 

Why does she not ask who is really in charge of the Himalayan hideaway - and why they are so intolerant of others that aren't like them?  

[FurryFury]

I think him popping up occasionally is what's been going on in s2, but I think they'll want to unify the team in s3. S2 has been pretty chaotic with all its different factions and agendas (which I love! Kinda reminds me of s2 of Nikita a little bit), but this kind of situation can't last forever. And if Ward won't get killed off (which is entirely possible), then there should be a way to make him interact with the team more.

 

But the reason it works so well is because it's a genuinely surprising twist (not to mention the player-choice you have in deciding to redeem yourself and return fully to the Light Side or fall back to the Dark Side).

 

That's off topic, of course, but I feel like most great twists in gaming have to do with player agency and the main character background. You know, like Bioshock, etc.

 

Why does she not ask about what happened to make Cal  crazy/angry?

 

I suspect she's been told off-screen and we weren't shown that because we already know it.

Edited April 22, 2015 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

This was another good episode. 

 

As long as Ward stays crazy, I'm fine with him joining in once in awhile. But please no Poor Me Redemption arc. I also wish Fitz got to punch him, that smug bastard asking how Fitz is after he gave him brain damage. I also hope Skye is pissed that Coulson is working with Ward. 

 

I find Coulson's obsession with Skye more annoying than Skye herself. He's almost like Cal with his craziness when it comes to her. She's already got one crazy dad, she doesn't need another. I had really hoped that Skye would've been able to say she doesn't need to be rescued, so Coulson can calm down. We know he''s not going to believe anyone else telling him that. 

 

The Inhumans are definitely like Magneto, they only want to protect their own kind. 

 

With Hydra back I hope Coulson can get out of his one track thought and help everyone go after the real threat. Especially since Hydra's a threat to the regular people and the powered people. I could see Mike wanting to join the Inhumans, the regular bad people want to experiment on him and the regular good people want to use him for their gain. 

[Primetimer]

At this point, everyone's loyalties are shifting so fast that it seems like no one's sure whom they hate.

Read the story

[Raja]

 

 

The Inhumans are definitely like Magneto, they only want to protect their own kind. 

 

With Hydra back I hope Coulson can get out of his one track thought and help everyone go after the real threat. Especially since Hydra's a threat to the regular people and the powered people. I could see Mike wanting to join the Inhumans, the regular bad people want to experiment on him and the regular good people want to use him for their gain. 

As a representative for the Real SHIELD I would say Hydra is not the real threat. They are a terrorist group who got knocked down by Captain America While they are a responsibility since half of SHIELD turned out to be secret Nazis it is like General Talbot said, "aliens,,,, aliens" who attacked the earth and there is no other shield to protect us at this point.

[Sakura12]

Right now, none of them are going after any threats. Real Shield is too busy going after Shield and Shield is too busy going after Skye. They are not even looking at Hydra, let alone the alien threat that won't happen until May 1st.  Hydra's the real threat that they've known about. 

[Bec]

Maybe the trope you're talking about is "Amnesiac Dissonance". I didn't think that movie I saw invented the entire concept, but it was pretty effectively used there. Everything has been done before, it depends on how it's used more than anything else. I think the guy who plays Ward could make that sort of material work. And maybe I'm just a little too amused thinking about how all the other characters would react and how many opportunities it would give them to pay him back for what he did to them.

*Rubs hands together in evil glee.*

[xqueenfrostine]

I wouldn't say everything but as a replacement for mutants most things are about Inhumans as the most hated of the enhanced people and the Skye story is our origin story of the Inhumans

Skye's the Inhuman origin story for the TV show, but it's highly unlikely that she's meant to serve that purpose for the MCU at large. If Inhumans are really going to be big players in the larger movie universe, they can't rely on AoS to do the heavy lifting on that storyline as AoS viewers are a small fraction of their intended movie audience. You don't want to create a situation where movie goers need to have done 2 seasons of TV homework to be able to fully appreciate or understand what's in one of their movies. Especially not when AoS isn't easily available outside of English speaking countries (as far as I know, it's only being broadcast in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand). Overseas revenue for movies is as important for movies these days, if not more so, as domestic revenue, so I wouldn't expect Skye to have much, if any, importance in the larger MCU. I wouldn't even expect her to be a character in a future Inhumans movie (though I suppose a cameo is possible).

Edited April 22, 2015 by xqueenfrostine

[miracole]

I probably shouldn't, but I like Ward and Agent 33.  I'd be cool with them being morally grey(dark, dark grey) and helping every once in a while.

 

I love Luke Mitchell so I hope they give  his character something more interesting to do. Don't know how long Raina's going to be around but they should pair him up with her.

 

I liked the actress that plays Skye's mom when she was on doll house, not so much on here.

 

With Cal I just feel like Skye is his babysitter. She's just trying to feed him icecream and kool-aid and keep him happy to avoid his next tantrum. She's a daddysitter.

 

Speaking of Skye, every time I watch this show I'm reminded of that scene in Mean Girls where the one girl tells Lacey Chabert's character to stop trying to make "fetch" happen.  I wish they would stop trying to make "Skye" happen.  

 

 

[sinkwriter]

 

Totally agree that Ward's "How are you" to Fitz was completely genuine and also agree it's way creepier. He has no comprehension of just how much he hurt Fitz. He probably thinks they're square.

 

That's something I was trying to remember last night: does Ward know that his actions caused Fitz brain damage? I'm guessing not. But I'm surprised he hasn't been told off about it directly yet. I hope one day Fitz gets to say something to Ward about it, just really let him have it for what he's done.

 

Regarding TAHITI... I find it creepy to wipe a person's mind, and as others have noted, the project has not been successful, so I'm really not sure why Coulson would subject Ward to that, given that it might just backfire on them in the long run.

[sinkwriter]

One of my favorite lines of the episode: Coulson defending Mike. "He's not a robot. He's a SHIELD agent... with rockets in his arm."

 

I also liked when Coulson said, "This isn't going to end well," and Hunter nodded, right before one of the agents following Fitz ran full out into the invisible airplane like one of those birds from the commercial for window cleaner. Bam! (Heeee.) Ouch.

Cal's office door said his name is "Cal L." Is he secretly Superman?   ;)

[xqueenfrostine]

That's something I was trying to remember last night: does Ward know that his actions caused Fitz brain damage? I'm guessing not. But I'm surprised he hasn't been told off about it directly yet. I hope one day Fitz gets to say something to Ward about it, just really let him have it for what he's done.

He definitely knows. In the third or fourth episode of this season Fitz went down to see Ward in his cell and made the consequences of Ward's actions VERY clear. Fitz went as far as to cut the oxygen off to Ward's cell in an attempt to show him what he went through though he stopped (or was stopped by someone else, I can't remember) before Ward was hurt. At the time, Fitz was still stuttering terribly and displaying obvious signs of brain damage, so Ward witnessed the effects first hand.

On another note, I can't believe this hasn't been brought up already but why on earth was Skye speaking to Lincoln about being Jiaying's daughter early in the episode as if this wasn't supposed to be a big secret? She didn't just call Jiaying and Cal her parents, she specifically called Jiaying her mom. And Lincoln didn't even blink, so this wasn't the first time Skye had shared this with him. That seems important.

Edited April 22, 2015 by xqueenfrostine

[DeLurker]

I was surprised that they had let Ward and Agent 33 have their weapons back when they were on the QuinnJet.

 

I also loved Hunter putting his hand on Fitz' to keep him from pulling the gun on Ward.  I think I could have spent a bit more time with just Couson, Hunter, Fitz and Mike before they threw Ward & 33 into the mix.

 

I love how Cal always puts on his jacket when Skye or Jiaying enter his hovel.  It is such a small thing but shows how important it is to him to make an effort because of how important they are to him. 

[Donny Ketchum]

That's something I was trying to remember last night: does Ward know that his actions caused Fitz brain damage? I'm guessing not. But I'm surprised he hasn't been told off about it directly yet. I hope one day Fitz gets to say something to Ward about it, just really let him have it for what he's done.

Ward knows about Fitz's brain damage.  Fitz told him and ripped him a new one over it when he accidentally found him locked in the basement earlier this season.  He even tried to kill Ward by turning off the oxygen in his cell after Ward tried to make the excuse of having given Fitz and Simmons their best chance at survival.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[Sakura12]

Lincoln seems to be a servant, he's always walking around towels and things and putting them in the rooms. I guess he got to know since he's also Skye's guide to the Inhuman life. Gordon knows too. It's everyone else that can't know. 

[sinkwriter]

 

He definitely knows. In the third or fourth episode of this season Fitz went down to see Ward in his cell and made the consequences of Ward's actions VERY clear. Fitz went as far as to cut the oxygen off to Ward's cell in an attempt to show him what he went through though he stopped (or was stopped by someone else, I can't remember) before Ward was hurt. At the time, Fitz was still stuttering terribly and displaying obvious signs of brain damage, so Ward witnessed the effects first hand.

 

That's right! I forgot about that scene! Wow, Ward really is an asshole. He casually asked Fitz how he was doing, knowing full well that Fitz is not the same person he used to be, all because of Ward.

 

 

On another note, I can't believe this hasn't been brought up already but why on earth was Skye speaking to Lincoln about being Jiaying's daughter early in the episode as if this wasn't supposed to be a big secret? She didn't just call Jiaying and Cal her parents, she specifically called Jiaying her mom. And Lincoln didn't even blink, so this wasn't the first time Skye had shared this with him. That seems important.

 

Good catch! I remember thinking that last night, but forgot about it by the time I posted here. I was wondering why she wasn't treating it like a secret. They made such a big deal about Skye needing to keep it between her and Jiaying because no one would understand, and they might not let Jiaying work with Skye. So how did Lincoln find out? And why isn't it a big deal? 

 

Details, details... I guess the writers forgot? 

[LVmom]

I thought that Lincoln knew about the Sky/Jiaying connection via Raina's telepathy. I figured I missed some tiny clue during the previous episode.

[Lady Calypso]

I mean, we did see Lincoln last episode entering the room where Skye was with her parents having dinner, so obviously he knew beforehand, but was that because Skye chose to tell him? Or was it that Jiaying decided that Lincoln could know? Now, that is a question that could be answered.

 

I don't really want Ward to be TAHITI'd, mostly because that would ensure some sort of redemption arc for him and I like my Ward all shady and mostly villainous. But...at the same time....it would be the perfect torture. And if Coulson just TAHITI'd him and sent him on his merry way? That would be awesome. But man, I think Ward wasn't intending to be all creepy with asking Fitz how he was, but that's how it came across. Ward probably just thought that he was breaking the tension, and Fitz just went all apeshit on him. Which I wish that Hunter and Coulson didn't stop him from doing it. Fitz is getting better, which means he's absolutely allowed to get a few punches in. This Hunter/Fitz growing friendship is awesome too. He needs more friends and I liked him with Simmons and Mack, but then Mack joined the other SHIELD and Simmons and him have been rockier, so at least he has Hunter. 

 

Man, Cal is the best, isn't he? I like that I can be sympathetic toward him because he didn't mean to go crazy. I do think that Skye is coming around to him, and he's being entirely genuine. And...during the fight, did they leave Lincoln behind with Deathlok? But yeah, I knew the Inhumans would become really, really shady, but I didn't expect it to happen this quickly. I still stand by my point that Skye needs them to control her powers, but now she needs to move faster in doing that and book it out ASAP. Her mother, in particular, is extremely shady. Of course she only wants to protect people of her kind. I guess as a leader, she does have to do hard things, but I'm just not sure about her. I feel bad for Cal. 

 

I could only laugh when Coulson saw Skye, and then saw her disappear again. 

 

I would be happy if they demoted Brett Dalton to recurring, but still have him and Kara pop in every once in a while to be the shady mofos that they are. But....I can't believe I'm saying this, but they do make for a cute couple. 

[xqueenfrostine]

Lincoln seems to be a servant, he's always walking around towels and things and putting them in the rooms. I guess he got to know since he's also Skye's guide to the Inhuman life. Gordon knows too. It's everyone else that can't know.

But he can't really be a servant. According to him, he'd still in medical school and just helps out from time to time when he's needed. If this whole mother/daughter this is truly a secret, then it's not something you just drop around someone who might occasionally help with the chores. They haven't established that he's some long time trusted confidant of Jiaying's, so it's pretty terrible writing if we're just going to assume that he's safe for no explicitly explained good reason. The show can't have this both ways where they tell us, in their own words, that no one can ever know and then just randomly show us some people who do know.

As for Lincoln seeing them all eat dinner together, I don't think that shows that Lincoln already knew. As Skye's mentor, Jiaying had a good excuse to be there even if she wasn't Skye's mom. And Raina only mentioned to Lincoln that in her dream, Skye was having dinner with her father, not her mother and father, so that shouldn't have given it away either. So either someone involved actually told Lincoln about this, or Lincoln overheard something when he came in at dinner that he shouldn't have. Either way, this should have come up somehow.

Edited April 22, 2015 by xqueenfrostine

[Sakura12]

Gordon seems to be Jiaying's second. Mostly I think Lincoln was told because he's also Skye's guide. He was the one that was helping her before Jiaying took over. 

[marceline]

Coulson's relationship to Skye has officially become creepy to me. The show seems to want me to think of them as a sort of Buffy/Giles but now they feel more like the maker/vampire relationships we used to see on True Blood.

[kennyab]

But he can't really be a servant. According to him, he'd still in medical school and just helps out from time to time when he's needed. If this whole mother/daughter this is truly a secret, then it's not something you just drop around someone who might occasionally help with the chores. They haven't established that he's some long time trusted confidant of Jiaying's, so it's pretty terrible writing if we're just going to assume that he's safe for no explicitly explained good reason. The show can't have this both ways where they tell us, in their own words, that no one can ever know and then just randomly show us some people who do know.

 

They've shown that Jiaying trusted Lincoln enough to be Skye's original handler, and I imagine she'd only pick one of her most trusted people to do that.

 

ETA: Sakura12 did it first.

Edited April 22, 2015 by kennyab

[xqueenfrostine]

I don't see that as being the same thing as trusting someone enough to keep all kinds of secrets. I'm not saying that there might not be good reasons that Lincoln would be in the know, but they're not showing us and they sending out conflicting signals. If Skye's parentage is really as big of a secret as they made it out to be last week, they're already being sloppy with that plot point. There's a reason that there's a saying that "two can keep a secret, if one of them is dead."

[Sakura12]

Coulson's Skye obsession is what is making him a terrible director. If he's the Director he should be doing his job which is not using all his resources and man power and enemies to get one person. He doesn't even to stop to think that Skye doesn't need to be rescued. When she called May, they all realized that Skye doesn't sound like she's in danger. Nor was she being guarded or anything when walking around the building they were in. She was trying to get away from them. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by Sakura12

[Lady Calypso]

As for Lincoln seeing them all eat dinner together, I don't think that shows that Lincoln already knew. As Skye's mentor, Jiaying had a good excuse to be there even if she wasn't Skye's mom. And Raina only mentioned to Lincoln that in her dream, Skye was having dinner with her father, not her mother and father, so that shouldn't have given it away either. So either someone involved actually told Lincoln about this, or Lincoln overheard something when he came in at dinner that he shouldn't have. Either way, this should have come up somehow.

 

 

Well, Raina had a 'dream' that Skye was happy at dinner with her parents, right? I can't quite remember what she said but if this is true, Lincoln either figured out about the familial connection right then during that scene last week, or he knew about it beforehand. 

[kitlee625]

Coulson's Skye obsession is what is making him a terrible director. If he's the Director he should be doing his job which is not using all his resources and man power and enemies to get one person. He doesn't even to stop to think that Skye doesn't need to be rescued. When she called May, they all realized that Skye doesn't sound like she's in danger. Nor was she being guarded or anything when walking around the building they were in. She was trying to get away from them. 

 

So in Coulson's defense, he doesn't know that Skye isn't being held against her will. All he knows is that a mysterious person took first Cal (Skye's psycho dad who tried to kill Coulson twice already) and then took Skye. Now he sees Skye in danger running around a building and again, the same mysterious person takes her while she shouts "Not yet!" So it doesn't seem that crazy that Coulson thinks she needs to be rescued. That being said, yes, I really want the show to address the fact that Skye is not being held against her will and seems to like it there. Certainly they can offer her things that SHIELD can't (training, her mother), and when she called May, she could have used that time to escape, but instead intended on returning to Afterlife. So I would love to see her confront Coulson about him locking her up and tell him that she doesn't need to be rescued.

 

I think that Coulson's soft spot for Skye has only kind of half-affected his judgement. I mean, when the chips were down, he treated her like other Gifteds and locked her up in the Retreat to protect others from her powers and gave her those gauntlets that were an attempt to suppress her abilities.

Edited April 22, 2015 by kitlee625

[Sakura12]

Oh, I know Coulson doesn't know that Skye doesn't need to be rescued. But he doesn't even stop to think of that possibility. They went to a city of where powered people supposedly come from, where Raina said she and Skye belong. Then Raina, Skye's father Cal and Skye all get taken by a powered person. Maybe a thought of his should be that Skye was taken by the people from the city they destroyed. 

[kennyab]

Coulson's Skye obsession is what is making him a terrible director. If he's the Director he should be doing his job which is not using all his resources and man power and enemies to get one person. He doesn't even to stop to think that Skye doesn't need to be rescued. When she called May, they all realized that Skye doesn't sound like she's in danger. Nor was she being guarded or anything when walking around the building they were in. She was trying to get away from them. 

 

All Coulson knows is that Skye, who is now very powerful, has been kidnapped. He doesn't know by who, and the worst possible scenario is that it's by Hydra, who would either perform the same experiments on her that they did on her mother to try to create super soldiers or try to make her comply, turning her into one of their super soldiers. He has no idea that she called May. The last thing he knows about her whereabouts is from Fitz.

 

Regardless of Coulson's personal feelings towards Skye, the wrong people getting their hands on her is not only dangerous to her but potentially to the entire world. Hydra has a past (and present) of using gifted individuals for their own ends, so that's the trail he's pursuing. It's in everyone's best interests to make sure Skye is safe, so I think Coulson's actually prioritizing pretty well.

[Capricasix]

I am enjoying this thoughtful, intelligent discussion of last night's show :)

On a superficial note - Iain de Caestecker is a cutie, and those glasses made him even cuter.

Oh, "just a flesh wound" - LOL :D

Edited April 22, 2015 by Capricasix

[kitlee625]

PLEASE STOP HOPING FOR WARD TO RETURN TO THE TEAM FULL-TIME!  This episode showed that it's not gonna happen.  Deathlok got taken in large part because of him tonight, and he pretty much told Kara (I think pretty honestly, too) that he was just using Coulson to gain their own endgame and had no intention of being erased, despite agreeing to it.  Add in the promo calling him their "greatest enemy," and I think he's gonna be off the team pretty much indefinitely.

 

So this brings up an interesting question: what is Ward's endgame? Whatever it is seems to involve a brainwashed Bakshi + getting into Hydra. Seems like there's two possiblities, either he wants to destroy Hydra (to what ends, not sure), or he wants to gain control of Hydra. Given that Hydra's whole thing is that they can never be destroyed, you'd think that he'd know better than to try to destroy it single handedly, and he doesn't seem like he'd be doing it for the betterment of mankind. But he seems to like not having to follow orders, so I'm wondering if he wants to create his own little Hydra cell to do his bidding. Overall though I find him difficult to predict because we've seen so little of him on screen this season, which may be the point (keeps him mysterious), but it also makes it hard to put any trust or faith in him because the writers haven't bothered to show us why we or any of the other characters should.

[Julie23]

 

The Inhumans seem like a bunch of a-holes. What a demanding bunch of divas. Their compound seems like a super bitchy high school.

You know inhumans, bitchy little girls.

 

I was wondering about the hair dryer too. Love Fitz and Hunter. Still mad at Bobbi and Mack no matter what they decide to do.

I hope May is not really in New Shield, but is faking it just like Bobbi and Mack were with Coulson's Shield.

There are so many great characters (Simmons for one) that do not get enough screen time - why is 50% of the show still Skye related?

[kitlee625]

But I wasn't happy about the switch of allegiance in May.  I know they laid the seeds for it last week, but too much of her switch happened off screen.  I can't count how many times I felt like I could see where whole scenes were cut from last week's episode, and they were all from May's present day story (probably to fit in more Skye time, grrr).  We never saw her accept Gonzales's offer to join the board of New SHIELD, we just saw her announce to Simmons that she had done it.  And we never saw her go through Bobbi's intel and seeing her first reaction to Coulson's covert activities, we just saw her tell Simmons about it and show us a map.  Without seeing that, May's current turn feels very out of character.  Her past with powered people doesn't explain how, despite the great loyalty she's shown Coulson, she felt she could risk Simmons locating Coulson through Deathlok under the direction of New SHIELD or why she would take Skye's call in front of Mac and Bobbi and feel comfortable allowing them to go to retrieve her. I just don't buy her motivation.  It feels really out of character, because a handful of flashbacks from last week aren't enough to counteract the two seasons of intense, no questions asked loyalty  May has shown Coulson.  Whatever good points she might think NEW SHIELD might have, they still are the guys that sent spies into their team and raided their base.  She shouldn't be past that already.

 

Yeah, I agree that they needed to do a better job of showing why she's doubting Coulson rather than just one shot of her looking at a picture of Coulson + her ex-husband. They didn't even really connect the flashbacks about Bahrain to how she might be feeling in the present day about Skye/Olmos SHIELD/Coulson! Show don't tell writers!

 

On a related note, Simmons' neverending faith in Coulson also felt out of left field. Why is she so sure that Coulson is trustworthy? Wasn't she just complaining about too many secrets from Coulson a few episodes ago? And we find out that when he was letting her in on secret work, it wound up being for a totally different purpose than what he said. Her faith in him just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Again, show don't tell!

Edited April 22, 2015 by kitlee625

[ChelseaNH]

the same mysterious person takes her while she shouts "Not yet!"

 

If someone's carting me off and I don't want to go with them, I'm probably not yelling "Not yet!"  Also, it's interesting that Coulson has always said that he needs to "find" Skye, not "rescue" Skye.  When he said "I've lost her," he didn't sound like a man who was afraid for her safety.  He sounded like a guy who lost his binky.

 

I had really hoped that Skye would've been able to say she doesn't need to be rescued

 

Skye:  I can take care of this with my superpowers.

Lincoln:  No, Skye, don't use your superpowers; the building might fall down.

Because that's been such a problem from her before, and of course now that she's had a chance to practice using her powers, it's gotten even worse.

 

I have no problems buying Skye would be conflicted about him, because even after everything, he's still somehow likable.

 

I was thinking it must be like having an alcoholic parent.

[Sakura12]

If someone's carting me off and I don't want to go with them, I'm probably not yelling "Not yet!"  Also, it's interesting that Coulson has always said that he needs to "find" Skye, not "rescue" Skye.  When he said "I've lost her," he didn't sound like a man who was afraid for her safety.  He sounded like a guy who lost his binky.

 

That's why I find his obsession so strange. It's more why is he so obsessed with her? He's working with a traitor to find her, the same traitor that is probably the last person Skye wants to find her. 

 

"Not yet" to me implies "Wait, let me talk to them first then we can go", not "Help me, I'm being held against my will"

[I Love Me]

I love how Cal always puts on his jacket when Skye or Jiaying enter his hovel.  It is such a small thing but shows how important it is to him to make an effort because of how important they are to him. 

        For being so murderous and bat-shit crazy, Cal's manners are impeccable.  I just love this character.  

[Traveller519]

Well, show, if you wanted me to enjoy Ward being back, the two weeks set up with Lincoln sure did the trick. Man, is that guy boring. 

 

Deathlok sure is cool all independent and figuring out his own-self though.

[FurryFury]

By the way, AVClub review has clued me to the fact that this episode has not just been written by two female writers, they are both PoCs (Monica Owusu-Breen and Karen Gaviola). Which is the first for MCU, apparently.

[ottoDbusdriver]

There are so many great characters (Simmons for one) that do not get enough screen time - why is 50% of the show still Skye related?

 

It's to ease you in to the inevitable renaming of this show to "Marvel's Skye and the Agents of SHIELD".  </snark>

[paigow]

It's to ease you in to the inevitable renaming of this show to "Marvel's Skye and the Agents of SHIELD".  </snark>

Replace "Agents" with "Inhumans" and "SHIELD" with "SHiDRA"

[kitlee625]

That's why I find his obsession so strange. It's more why is he so obsessed with her? He's working with a traitor to find her, the same traitor that is probably the last person Skye wants to find her. 

 

"Not yet" to me implies "Wait, let me talk to them first then we can go", not "Help me, I'm being held against my will"

 

Yeah so I agree. I think this goes down to the writers and how they've set everything up. Even if we can fanwank that maybe Coulson hasn't put this all together (or is just now putting these pieces together since just now seen her since her disappearance), it definitely takes some urgency/importance out of his deal with Ward. Like we the audience know that she's hanging out with her mom and playing backgammon with her New Love Interest, so it's not critical that Coulson find her. So then why should we buy that it's so critical to find her that he's willing to make a deal with the devil and take all these risks?

[Gudzilla]

I thought the highlight was Coulson greeting Ward on the phone with a cheerful "Hi honey".

[ChelseaNH]

This has been bugging me, but not enough to rewatch the episode:

 

Hydra was following Gordon by tracing quantum entanglements.  They end up at Cal's office building.  Did they trace Gordon to a location he hadn't yet BAMF'd to?

 

Also, Hunter's "secure, undisclosed location" was apparently about 5 minutes from Fitz's bathroom hideout.

Edited April 22, 2015 by ChelseaNH

[APSimpson]

This was the episode I was waiting for. Finally, Ward and Coulson together again. Sure, there will be complications ahead, I know that, but this was a real treat.

The scene where Ward sat down to talk to Coulson, I had a moment. What's that they call it? Squee? Yeah, I did that. And I'm OK with that. You could tell the actors Clark Gregg and Brett Dalton were enjoying the stuffing out of working together, too. Great, fun scene and the whole episode had that twinkle-of-the-eye feel to it. What an absolute pleasure this was. Without using too much more hyperbole, let me just say that it was better than naked gymnastics, if you know what I mean.

 

Mike Peterson. Epic awesome. Loved it when Fitz wanted to know about his upgrades.

Bobbi was so striking in this episode. Her hair in a pony tail? I'm in love. I like seeing sparring scenes like what she and Mack had.

Not a lot of May and Simmons in this one, but their scenes were gripping. I'm warming up to Simmons, liked it when she hacked into the computer there and when she says "bloody hell" I start to glow all over. And let's face it, the woman can make a sandwich.

Skye and Cal, great stuff. Skye wording her name "Daisy Johnson" was a nice bone for the comic fans. Lincoln is such a sweetheart, like his power too, and glad he and Deathlok sorted things out but that EMP blast Bakshi threw at them was wicked. And for a second I thought Bakshi would play nice.

Poor Lance getting shot, but Kara aided him. I really like how the team came together despite trust issues and whatnot. As dysfunctional as it all seemed, I think they came together nicely and to quote Mike Ditka: "we became a team today." I can't believe I just typed that.

So many good moments recently in this series, and I can honestly say without a doubt this is my favorite show on TV and has been since episode 1 of season 1. It is an emotional rollercoaster at times but I am on the ride for good even though I was so upset at times but the creators have a plan and I'm seeing that I should trust their vision.

Anyway, Ward and Kara still have their secrets, but the optimist in me hopes that it will all be sorted out and everyone lands on their feet. Like I said at another forum, I just want the band back together, and this was a wonderful step in that direction.

[APSimpson]

Also, it's interesting that Coulson has always said that he needs to "find" Skye, not "rescue" Skye.  When he said "I've lost her," he didn't sound like a man who was afraid for her safety.  He sounded like a guy who lost his binky.

 

I don't know, but this calls for another epic rescue scene with Lola! :)

This has been bugging me, but not enough to rewatch the episode:

 

Hydra was following Gordon by tracing quantum entanglements.  They end up at Cal's office building.  Did they trace Gordon to a location he hadn't yet BAMF'd to?

 

Well, Lincoln showed up at Cal's building, so I assume Gordon had teleported into it, and then when he takes Skye he was there, so I guess the assumption is that he had already teleported in (when he brought Lincoln) and that's how Hydra were able to track them into the building.

 

Glad Cal was able to jump into the Bamf! ;)

[blackwing]

I have read and re-read the synopsis on the ABC site, and I feel so thoroughly stupid.  This show is now reminding me of the first Mission Impossible movie.  I feel like I'm too stupid to watch it, because I have absolutely no idea what is going on.

 

Can someone please succinctly sum up the various groups, who is in each, and explain to me each group's motivations?  As far as I can tell:

 

SHIELD - Coulson, Fitz, Deathlok - trying to find Skye.  What else?

 

"Real SHIELD" - Bobbi, Mack, Edward James Olmos, May (pretending to be with them or not?), Simmons (pretending to be with them or not?).  I have no idea what they are trying to do.

 

Hydra - Strucker, List, Bakshi.  Attempting to take over the world.

 

Inhumans - Jiayang, Lincoln, Gordon.  Trying to make the world a safe place for their kind.

 

Ward and 33 are with Hydra but now they are working with SHIELD to try and take down Hydra?  Why?  So utterly confused.

[FurryFury]

SHIELD - Coulson, Fitz, Deathlok - trying to find Skye.  What else?

"Real SHIELD" - Bobbi, Mack, Edward James Olmos, May (pretending to be with them or not?), Simmons (pretending to be with them or not?).  I have no idea what they are trying to do.

 

Their ultimate goals are basically the same. They want to protect people from extraterrestial and metahuman threats. The "real" SHIELD (I love the term "Olmost SHIELD") just doesn't trust Coulson and seems a bit more hostile to powered humans.

 

Ward and 33 are with Hydra but now they are working with SHIELD to try and take down Hydra?  Why?  So utterly confused.

 

We don't know yet. Agent 33 seems to just be loyal to Ward, but his own goal is yet a mystery.

Edited April 22, 2015 by FurryFury

[DeLurker]

This has been bugging me, but not enough to rewatch the episode:

 

Hydra was following Gordon by tracing quantum entanglements.  They end up at Cal's office building.  Did they trace Gordon to a location he hadn't yet BAMF'd to?

 

Also, Hunter's "secure, undisclosed location" was apparently about 5 minutes from Fitz's bathroom hideout.

They first picked up Gordo's trace when he dropped off Skye and Cal. Hydra headed to Milwaukee right away.

When Lincoln was dropped off, it gave Hydra another blip to follow which conveniently was in the office building.

[KirkB]

I think Coulson's SHIELD and Gonzalez's SHIELD want the same basic things, they just have different priorities and methods. Coulson wants to do the kind of stuff Fury did, gather resources and allies. Some of those resources and allies happen to be super powered and not human. Gonzalez and his crew appear to be more human centric. They don't so much hate super people as they don't trust them and think normals should be in charge. They're also hypocritical in complaining about Coulson keeping secrets while keeping secrets themselves.

 

You're pretty spot on with Hyrda I think. They're still after world domination. Unlike their predecessors the ones left seem to be a little more subtle. 

 

The Inhumans seem to share similar traits with Gonzalez's SHIELD, in that they're out for their own kind, first and foremost. They don't seem to care what happens to anyone else, though I'm not sure if they are actively against humans in general.

 

As for Ward and 33, their allegiance seems to be more about themselves. Ward was never really Hydra, he was just following Garrett. He's probably trying to play both sides (SHIELD and Hyrdra) against one another so he can pick up the pieces and use whatever's left himself. 33 is just following Ward because her programming has defaulted to the highest ranking guy who was present at the time.

[xqueenfrostine]

Well, Raina had a 'dream' that Skye was happy at dinner with her parents, right? I can't quite remember what she said but if this is true, Lincoln either figured out about the familial connection right then during that scene last week, or he knew about it beforehand. 

 

Nope, I went back to check last week's episode and Raina didn't mention her mother.  She said she keeps dreaming of Skye and her father at dinner, a bottle of champagne and a bouquet daisies.  And that Skye looked so happy.  But there was no mention of mom or "parents."  Just dad.  I suppose it might be possible that it's common knowledge that Cal is Jiaying's estranged (or maybe ex) husband and Lincoln put two and two together that way, but it definitely hasn't been presented as though that's the case.

 

 

On a related note, Simmons' neverending faith in Coulson also felt out of left field. Why is she so sure that Coulson is trustworthy? Wasn't she just complaining about too many secrets from Coulson a few episodes ago? And we find out that when he was letting her in on secret work, it wound up being for a totally different purpose than what he said. Her faith in him just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Again, show don't tell!

 

I don't think it was out of left field at all.  Simmons told us everything we need to know about where her loyalties lie when she took it upon herself to duplicate Fury's toolbox and smuggle it out with Fitz.  That was her own plan, not something she cooked up with anyone else.  Plus Simmons has actually been keeping secrets for Coulson.  He tasked her with secretly examining the index 4-5 episodes ago to help identifying/separating (at Simmons's suggestion) the different kinds of powered people.  She's also who he went to to build Skye's gauntlets.  I don't think we've ever really seen Simmons have a serious disagreement with Coulson.  She didn't even flinch last week when May told her that Coulson had misled her about what kind of work she was doing when he really was having her work on tech for Deathlok and said at least twice that there must be a good explanation for Coulson keeping secrets and stood up for Coulson against Mac.  I think the only reason Simmons's defense of Coulson this week felt strange was because it was May she was defending him to. As loyal as Simmons might be to Coulson, I would think May would be even more so.

 

Can someone please succinctly sum up the various groups, who is in each, and explain to me each group's motivations?  As far as I can tell:

 

SHIELD - Coulson, Fitz, Deathlok - trying to find Skye.  What else?

 

"Real SHIELD" - Bobbi, Mack, Edward James Olmos, May (pretending to be with them or not?), Simmons (pretending to be with them or not?).  I have no idea what they are trying to do.

 

Hydra - Strucker, List, Bakshi.  Attempting to take over the world.

 

Inhumans - Jiayang, Lincoln, Gordon.  Trying to make the world a safe place for their kind.

 

Ward and 33 are with Hydra but now they are working with SHIELD to try and take down Hydra?  Why?  So utterly confused.

 

Coulson's SHIELD:  right now getting to Skye seems to be their only working priority, though presumably taking their team and base back from NuSHIELD would have been their next priority.  They were trying to infiltrate HYDRA because they didn't have any intel of their own on Gordon (who they saw taking Skye from the security footage from the cabin Coulson had stashed Skye at).  HYDRA is obsessed with powered people, so Coulson thought they'd be to best place to start looking for info on Gordon.

 

New SHIELD: only focus seems to be on finding Coulson and figuring out what kind of secret projects they're working on.  I think we're supposed to assume that's all they're doing, as both Bobbi and Mac expressed frustration that they weren't doing much of anything to fight actual bad guys

 

HYDRA: studying powered people, plotting their return to power, being evil and whatever else they're doing that will or will not be revealed in Age of Ultron

 

Simmons: not with New SHIELD and was attempting to continue bluffing re:Fury's Toolbox and stalling them on finding Coulson's whereabouts until May forced her hand and told Bobbi.  Now hopes that by finding Coulson she can prove his innocence/good intentions

 

May:  who the hell knows what's up with May this week?

 

Agent 33 and Ward: Haven't been working with Hydra since the death of Whitehall.  Were on the run until Coulson found them and strong armed Ward into working with SHIELD to use their old contracts to get them into Hydra.  Their other motives and plans are unknown, but they've apparently been holding Bakshi (who may or may not be really brainwashed) captive for the past few episodes.

[kitlee625]

Yeah, so I'm trying to think back through the episodes for Simmons stuff because I was pretty sure that there was something that I was remembering about her questioning Coulson that was never really followed up on. Certainly after TAHITI in season 1, she and Fitz were trying to do their own investigation, and she even said to his face that her loyalties were to SHIELD and science (a moment I loved, btw). Then later in season 1 there was her being all "I don't know why I'm here" and questioning Coulson's leadership, like in 1x18 she said "Are they even orders? SHIELD's been destroyed, Fury's dead, aren't they just requests?"

 

But by season 2 you're right, all that has changed and her loyalty to SHIELD and Coulson is cemented because she's undercover at Hydra with only May and Coulson (and Bobbi we later learn) knowing that she's there. And if I remember correctly, she is a little passively like "oh what's going on with GH325, I hope you two haven't gone nuts, Skye and Coulson," but overall goes along with the memory machine and everything. So yeah, I think I'm remembering more season 1 Simmons now that you mention it. Which is a little sad because I liked those moments for her character in season 1, and I wish we could have seen her have that turning point moment where she goes from doubting SHIELD to being all in, instead of being told that that happened after the fact.