MDL April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 I could watch this all day... (Gif of Root killing Martine.) I also cheered. What added to it was Root's comment "not even a peep", reflecting the comment Martine made re Harold. No need for weapons or pyro, just a deadly, cold killing. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1092492
immortalfrieza April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 (edited) Sigh. You know, this was a intense episode, but all it really did was highlight yet again the main problems with this entire Machine Vs. Samaritan storyline. Once again, everybody involved has to act like a complete moron in order for the plot to work. I actually liked the Dominic and Elias plot a lot better because it avoided having to do that. This is probably going to run into spoiler territory so... Harold and Root run off half cocked into an incredibly obvious trap with NO backup whatsoever to save Shaw, despite knowing that the whole thing is a trap. If Samaritan had set up some apparently standard mission knowing Root and Harold would go on it only for "IT'S A TRAP!!!" that would be one thing, but with this they might as well have walked straight up to Greer and said "hey, want to kidnap us and use us as a bargaining chip?" for all the sense what they actually did made. For the millionth time, for no apparent reason The Machine sends the Root and Harold into a mission without so much as one Red Shirt to back them up or any other support at all besides what they've got on hand not just at the start but at any point during the whole thing, made all the more glaring due to The Machine being able to call in Harper to help with the B plot but somehow not being able to do so with the other one. Then, of course, The Machine not only takes Samaritan's deal but judging by the previews gives an accurate location instead of just lying, and by now like Samaritan it should have a hundred server warehouses or more spread throughout the world instead of still being in one central location. The Machine better have ONE HELL of a plan in play behind the scenes or it's not only screwed, but screwed because of it's own stupidity. Edited April 30, 2015 by immortalfrieza 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1093625
stealinghome April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 So I have to say, Asylum was a great watch on first watch, but it's even better on the second watch. You're not on the edge of your seat as much, so you can take in the details. A few thoughts on rewatch: Root continues to grow away from The Machine. In episode 18, she flat-out disobeyed TM's orders; now, she's manipulating The Machine like she would manipulate a human to get TM to do what she wants, and as TM manipulated her in 4x13. That's another quietly huge step for her. Root's estrangement from The Machine has been...not well handled this season, but I'm still curious to see where the show takes Root's newfound willingness to go against The Machine next season. Hopefully it's actually somewhere, as opposed to nowhere like this season. (Also--isn't it awesome that she played The Machine just like Shaw played her in 4x09? Ahhh, the Shoot callbacks were delightful in this episode--it also didn't escape my notice that Root stormed up to the guns locker like Shaw did in 4x10 while talking about how she had to save her.) So, the Shaw question. On rewatch, it struck me that Shaw's position with Samaritan was strongly analogous to Harper's with Dominic--appears to be helping, but in fact doesn't give the full information that would REALLY endanger the team (Harper told Dominic about Finch, but didn't give up the safehouse when we know she knows about it; Shaw gave up Root's cochlear implant and seems to have made the call at the start, but obviously didn't give up the subway or Harold/John's cover identities [or even Fusco's real identity!]). Given this, alongside Shaw's still-yellow box when The Machine showed her being escorted to the van*, I'm going for Double Agent Shaw. Though I could also believe a partially brainwashed Shaw--like maybe the neural implants we saw in 4x13 can "open her up" to more traditional brainwashing techniques, but she's still resisting and it's not complete (hence why they just got the phone call and cochlear implant and not John/Harold's IDs). But Double Agent Shaw would be awesome, and I think my preference. *-Though because that was before Martine started saying anything, it's possible The Machine was still unaware of Shaw's turn, if it was a true turn. But with THAT said, it's also possible The Machine could be unaware of Double Agent Shaw. Speaking of Martine, she lived as she died: a true Shoot shipper. And also fucking creepy--when she stroked Finch's face, I got squicked out like you wouldn't believe. I loved the quiet callback to 3x10 with Elias refusing to give up Finch. For all his rhetoric about trust Quinn sung like a bird when John threatened him with pain, but Elias, a true believer in loyalty, refused to give up Harold. Lovely moment (and from John and Lionel, too, of course). Root and Reese's eyebrow games were on point this episode. I laughed when Root cocked at eyebrow at Finch in a total "play along" moment, and Reese's eyebrows when Elias revealed his plan to Dominic were even funnier. Speaking of Root checking Finch into the "funny farm": that entire scene is still hilarious, but this time what struck me was Finch's panicked expression as the orderlies wheeled him away! Too funny. Fun fact, apparently the doctor in that scene was ME's brother-in-law. His expression when Lenny stood up was a close second for hilarity. I didn't even think about this last night, but Professor Whistler's cover is officially blown. Guess his fake identity, at least, is going away next season. Please, please, PLEASE let the Detective Riley cover go away too--especially if it takes Iris with it!!! Thought the difference between Samaritan and The Machine was illustrated so starkly in Samaritan vs Machine pov we got in the scene where the Samarigoons dragged Martine's body out the door: Samaritan has the bare minimum of identification information, while The Machine's "Get Assets OUT!!!" box was front and center. And argh, The Machine's message is still so sad. Other awesome things: Reese's snark to Link; Root talking to The Machine/"herself" in the snow (seriously, she's totally the person on the street everyone edges away from); Control's face/voice when she said "friends," and then the palpable disdain when she sneered "handle me too." The scorn was dripping off her words. And man, the music for this show is just great. Elias' theme, playing over his first speech about the tubes and then his talk with John, never fails to make me shiver; the two variations on Shaw's theme that played in the subway phone scenes were lovely. 9 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1093665
Coxfires April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 And man, the music for this show is just great. Elias' theme, playing over his first speech about the tubes and then his talk with John, never fails to make me shiver; the two variations on Shaw's theme that played in the subway phone scenes were lovely. The score on this show is amazing, be it the soundtrack or the themes and their variations associated with each character. I love your comment about the Machine boxes' color, and the fact that Sameen was still considered an asset. I have a general question though: when the Machine goes through her feeds, do we see the colors the Machine assigned then to the subject, or how it consider them in the present time? I'm unsure, because Reese was already yellow in the Pilot before Harold recruited him, so, not an asset yet, but was red during his mission in Ordos. I always wondered if it was just a simple mistake. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1093892
ShannaB April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 Well, the way she was introduced was pretty awful. At first, they wrote and directed her as a one-note bad ass, yet shoved her down our throats like she was special. I think this kind of introduction pushes feminist buttons (oh, the male characters get to be both tough and interesting, but females not so much -- we're supposed to be content with yet another bad-ass-brunette . . .). But then, over the course of a season or two, she developed into a great character. I was hooked on her when she saved Lionel's son, the way she talked to him on the phone afterwards. And now I very much want her to be reunited with the team. Shaw was dropped on us from nowhere and I remember wondering if I had turned on another program. By the time the episode was over I was hoping Sarah would become a regular with hopes that she would end up on TM. Like I said before, Sarah sold me on LIFE so I am glad most fans of POI finally felt that she was a team member. When Nick Taraby guest starred, I had high hopes he would help TM but I guess that was a pipe dream of mine. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1094522
edhopper April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 I agree with all about how awesome this ep was. Root killing Martine was pure wonderful. I actually worry about the fate of The Machine. I mean a freaking AI concept that we only see through video displays and I am concerned about it's life. That is some serious good writting. And will they stop "The Correction"? With this show I can't say, there is no status quo.. It sounds like something similar to the Hydra plan in Captain America, The Winter Soilder. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1094753
johntfs April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 For my part, Samaritan is scarier than Ultron or Skynet. Ultron is a killer robot who makes other killer robots. Skynet nukes everyone and then makes, well, killer robots. If Samaritan wants you dead, it has you arrested, puts you in a cell with a bunch of killers and then spams their phones with offers to kill you. Samaritan doesn't bother with Terminators or plasma cannons. It just abuses the machinery of human society to crush you like a bug. 11 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1095697
Syme April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 Well, the way she was introduced was pretty awful. At first, they wrote and directed her as a one-note bad ass, yet shoved her down our throats like she was special. Did we not first meet her in Bad Code where she manipulated Our Side into finding Hanna? 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1095888
Helena Dax April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 (edited) It's amazing how the writers can get us cheering so hard for characters who are technically bad guys to win out over other, less appealing, bad guys. As much as I liked Link, Elias' showing Dominic exactly how it feels to be responsible for the death of a friend ("Be careful what you wish for") was beautiful. And I love how the difference between Elias and Dominic reflected The Machine's moral development. To Dominic, his people are a means to an end. Even the ones he likes (Link) are essentially replaceable. Not so for Elias. Heck, Elias won't even sell out a frienemy like Finch. To be fair to Finch, when he held that The Machine saw humans as replaceable, that wasn't so much identifying a flaw as acknowledging that his training of her was successful. He worked hard to convince her that he himself was not special, that her job was to save everybody. I think there's a parallel between Dominic/Samaritan and Elias/Machine. Dominic and Samaritan don't care about their own people, while Elias and the machine do. And of course, loyalty calls loyalty, so the people who work for Samaritan or Dominic don't care about the others either. The Machine would have never wanted to work with someone like Greer. And I'm starting to think she gave Root a chance because the Machine thought "better me than Samaritan or we're doomed". (I don't know if that could be possible, but I'm sure as hell our friends are lucky Root didn't end up working for Samaritan). The moment Elias gave that account number I knew he was going to frame Link. I can't believe Dominic fell for that. I don't know what to think about the black girl, I don't remember her name. She's obviously someone who likes to walk the grey line, but you can't work with shit without getting your hands dirty. I didn't get what she told to Fusco before leaving him there. Was it important? Did it explain why she was there? Sameen brainwashed? Please, don't. She's too awesome. Edited April 30, 2015 by Helena Dax 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1096497
stealinghome April 30, 2015 Share April 30, 2015 I didn't get what she told to Fusco before leaving him there. Was it important? Did it explain why she was there? Harper told Fusco that Ernest Thornhill--aka The Machine, who we learned was contacting Harper under the Thornhill alias in 4x18--told her (Harper) that she could name her price if she saved Fusco and John. So what Harper was saying is that she's actually on their side whenever they make their move (and it's worth noting that when she thought they might actually drown Fusco, she took out that knife, presumably to save him). What I want to know is whether The Machine contacted her before or after she agreed to work with Dominic to get info from Reese and Fusco. Ie, was she a plant with Dominic to begin with, or did she first accept Dominic's offer and only then, after The Machine knew she could endanger our guys, did The Machine reach out with a better offer than Dominic's? I lean toward the second option--it just makes more sense given the events of the episode--but I wouldn't be surprised if the show spins it as Door #1. I think the writers are definitely going for Harper as Catwoman--a grifter who's got great street skills and is truly mercenary, albeit with a bit of a soft spot for our guys (kind of like the criminal version of Zoe, in some respects, and I think it's pretty telling that initially it was supposed to be Zoe instead of Harper in 4x18)--but either the writing, actress, or both aren't selling it. You can tell the actress is trying way too hard to impart "breezy charm" and doesn't have the charisma to pull it off, and the character still just seems very superficial. I get no sense of depth from her at all. She's like a walking, talking plot device. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1096678
Dowel Jones May 1, 2015 Share May 1, 2015 The Samaritan followers are fanatics. I was gratified that Harold (and it's Harold, not Harry, Ms. Root!) challenged Greer with the question of why he thinks he is invulnerable to Samaritan. My long term opinion about these folks is "You built a machine that rules everything by logic. Don't be surprised if you're on the losing end some day." Or, to put it more succintly, if you teach a dog to be mean, don't be surprised if it bites. Down, Bear, it's just an adage. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1097333
Netfoot May 1, 2015 Share May 1, 2015 And will they stop "The Correction"? With this show I can't say, there is no status quo.. It sounds like something similar to the Hydra plan in Captain America, The Winter Soilder. Unless I misremember, the date for The Correction is the day after the season finale. This means there is still time for TM to throw a spanner in that particular works. Another possibility is that they fail to stop the commencement of The Correction before the close of the finale, and we get to picture it on-going throughout the interregnum. But I can't see how there can be any Correction without a marked alteration to the nature of the show. PoI takes place in a world where artificial super-intelligences -- and their human minions -- battle for supremacy, while the vast majority of humanity remains oblivious. This allows the show to be set against a backdrop of ordinary life in the city. The Correction would change that. It sounds like it would be so disruptive, that even the most chuckle-headed members of the public could not fail to notice that something was going on! The backdrop of normal life against which the show takes place would change in response to the Correction itself. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1097516
basiltherat May 1, 2015 Share May 1, 2015 Nah, most people wouldn't notice any "correction" as long as they have their Starbucks and their Twitter. Look at that episode with the stock market crash -- sure, one guy had a bomb strapped to him, but the rest of the subway riders were just doing the same old same old. May 6 -- Correction Day -- is also my birthday. I will do my best to protect humanity, but a few nice gifts would help. I promise Bear will be safe. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1099307
Netfoot May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 If The Correction involves killing off half the city, I think the other half is going to notice. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1100580
Abstract May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 So having a near-death experience and seeing a vision of Carter makes Reese be nice to Fusco. And it makes him have better hair. The hair people haven't got it right with JC in 4 seasons until this episode. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1101189
kahauna May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 (edited) For all of his resourcefulness, cunning and ruthlessness, it is a pity that Dominic never understood hubris - remember how Roman senators and emperors had their centurions to stand at their shoulders and whisper stuff like "all glory is fleeting?" He had one in Link and Elias played him like Jimi Hendrix on a Stratocaster and manipulated Dominic into murdering Link in front of the crew. So now, who steps on? Floyd?? Edited May 2, 2015 by kahauna 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1101928
DeLurker May 2, 2015 Share May 2, 2015 For all of his resourcefulness, cunning and ruthlessness, it is a pity that Dominic never understood hubris - remember how Roman senators and emperors had their centurions to stand at their shoulders and whisper stuff like "all glory is fleeting?" He had one in Link and Elias played him like Jimi Hendrix on a Stratocaster and manipulated Dominic into murdering Link in front of the crew. So now, who steps on? Floyd?? That line is a thing o'beauty! And I was never a Hendrix fan but no denying he knew he knew how to play. If Floyd is the girl, I think it would be. Although I am not sure how much of a step in the right direction she should think it is. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1102295
basiltherat May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 With all his historical musings on the Roman Empire, Dominic doesn't seem to remember what happened to ol' Juliius Caesar -- et tu, Mini?! 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1102522
ABay May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 (edited) I'm rewatching from episode 1 to prep for the finale and am reminded of 2 things in the first few minutes of episode 1: 1. As I think I said the first time through, in my opinion Greer's death is foreshadowed in his discussion with Samaritan about whether to "contain" the Senator. I so hope I'm right. 2. Martine needed to die if only because she killed Fred Weller. Outdated technology has been a big theme this season--the vhf antennae, the abandoned subway tunnels, the pneumatic tubes, a throwaway reference to using floppy disks and non-networks computers. Will some antiquated bit of tech be Samaritan's downfall? I'm still hoping for something very old school--calculate pi!--but mostly just want this storyline with Samaritan finished already. Edited May 3, 2015 by ABay 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1103633
StarBrand May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 (edited) Well, this one started fast, and didn't slow down. With so much going on, it didn't feel crammed together, at least to me. Like others, I'm wanting the whole Dominic thing to end, because he's so far out of his league with Elias, it's not funny. But I don't mind it for now, since it allows for some more Elias/Reese interaction, which I've always enjoyed. I liked the grin on Elias' face when John guessed his plan. And as much as he's got the upper hand on Dominic for now, Elias really looks and sounds like a man who's determined to go out with a bang, and take his enemy with him. I liked the fact there was some carryover from last week, in that Fusco, and Elias noticed something different about John's demeaner. I'm surprised John didn't mention his hallucination of Carter to Elias-that would have been something to bond over a little. Root was quite determined to find Sameen, even if she full-out acknowledged to Finch she knew it was certainly a trap for them, but I think at this point she's running out of fucks to give. She flat out doesn't care whether she survives, just that the Machine, and her friends, do. And this time even the machine wasn't stopping her. Of course, this led them striaght into the Dragon's Liar, where we found out Team Samaritan's base of operations, as well as finding out Sameen had been held there. The psychiatric ward sequence was comedy gold, with Harold looking crazy just by speaking the truth (this is the second time he's done that this season-he also tried to get out of jury duty in "Guilty", but the machine wasn't havin' it). I liked the look of horror when he got wheeled away. Speaking of the Machine-there has been a long-standing mystery of the machine "caring" about its agents. Specifically, does it see them as disposable, or does it give a damn? That question was answered pretty definitively. Root has always been the true believer of the machine, and its humanity, but Harold has always been skeptical. And yet there is was right in his face, the machine telling him he was NOT interchangable, and that it would give itself up for them. This will change completely how Harold relates to the machine from this point on. Root finally got a chance to kill Martime. "Lay a hand on him, and I'll kill you." Martime lays a hand on him, then SNAP! "NOW, I surrender." Cue commercial. Perfect. Also, there's Control. It seems she's been busy, due to her "friends" convincing her there's much more going on than she thought. She may be many things, but she is NOT stupid.-she wasn't going to be "handled". That woman talked of "The Correction" with the enthusiasm of a true cultist. Scary. Can't wait until Tuesday to see how this plays out. Edited May 3, 2015 by StarBrand 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1103829
Camera One May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 (edited) The episode wasn't bad, but not particularly special. There has been one too many never-gonna-get-out-of-this-alive scenarios this season. I liked that the Machine thinks they're irreplaceable but the rest of it was meh. Martine didn't suffer enough for it to be satisfying. I loved Root and Harold working together in the hospital as usual, but I'm just so sick of Wrinkled Face. Speaking of annoying characters, why is Harper still gracing the screen? Just to tell Dominic the existence of Harold? It's hard to care about the whole Elias/Dominic grudge match. I'd rather have seen the entire team working on the bigger threat of Samaritan, considering the day of reckoning is approaching. Control annoys me as well. I would rather have seen her journey of discovering the truth and finally realizing it was true. Instead, this felt like exposition telling us that something big is about to go down, complete with gratuitous shooting people to death. Hopefully, next week won't disappoint. Edited May 3, 2015 by Camera One 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1104167
webruce May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 (edited) I liked Roots fight with Martine. Root snapped Martine's neck pretty easily. But she threatened Harold. So Greer wanted her ear implant. And like Finch said he discarded Martine pretty easily. But Greer told Harold that they all were expendable. Root follows Greer a couple seasons ago, she he knows some about her. When Root brought Finch into the facility it was funny she told the Dr. the truth but no one understood. Hopefully Samaritan or Greer didn't catch all of Roots references to the truth. Sameens call to Root made me suspicious. But then she is removed from insane building before the team arrives. But the Team Machine having to un-brain wash her maybe a good thing. Control took control and Shelly went from sniveling wife/teacher to smart A** bit** pretty quick. But did she think Control would let her go? Look at Tyler! Who's body was put in her Dodge Mini van? I liked that Control said some friends tried to steer her right or how ever she said it. The correction begins May 6. Elias telling Donimic that his right hand man Link was the mole made me think he might be wrong. Then Elias telling he made a mistake. I laughed but then thought it was lucky Dominic didn't shoot Elias. I liked that during the water-boarding that Fusco asked for a loofah. Reese wasn't yet back to the top of his game with his injury from the previous shooting. It would some how be nice to get Brotherhood on the case of Decima. So Greer and team have to worry about them. Maybe Harper Rose is not a The Machine agent? I was surprised that NYPD didn't come and raid the old bank. The AI talk was good too. TM saying, "You are not interchangeable. I failed to save Sameen!" and saying, "Release Them". Then they do Edited May 3, 2015 by webruce Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1104168
ABay May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 I appreciated that the Machine used an old style font on a makeshift screen while Samaritan was newer and smoother. Keeping with the old tech theme. Also in keeping with Samaritan suborning youth--smoother and newer humans--in the form of avatar boy, the school, the scheme to provide children with cheap PCs scuttled by Harold and co. And of course the Dominic v. Elias struggle. I hope the running hubris theme pays off big and the killing of Link wasn't all it led to. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1104273
stealinghome May 3, 2015 Share May 3, 2015 Another point for Double Agent Shaw I can't believe I missed till now: the voiceover when they showed Shaw driving away was "But for others a rebirth, a second chance to live the life they were designed for." Shaw in 4x11: "Second chances are overrated, Harold." I hope the running hubris theme pays off big and the killing of Link wasn't all it led to. I definitely think they've set Samaritan up for a fall. You just know Samaritan is smugly going to come out of the season finale thinking it won and The Machine is gone, but TM will be preserved and raring to kick Samaritan's ass next season. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1104313
ABay May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 (edited) Another thing I'm hoping will figure into the finale: the calculating outcomes bit. Not to the extent as in 4x11 with the multiple replays of the scene, but the calculations have shown up on screen from the beginning of the series, Samaritan has also shown them (I think) and the idea of calculating options was given a lot of exposition in the chess game, Maybe the Machine will bluff Samaritan and Samaritan in its hubris will underestimate the Machine and fail to account for some human intervention and/or chance, and make the wrong calculation of the outcome and go boom. Or something. Seriously, I just want this storyline over with. Edited May 4, 2015 by ABay 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1106647
Netfoot May 4, 2015 Share May 4, 2015 I don't want Samaritan to go away. But in the last season or so, Samaritan has gone from strength to strength, while TM has retired down a rat-hole! It's one thing for Our Guys to be underdogs, but they have to win one every so often. Frankly, I'm tired of TM losing all the time. I don't recall when last they won one. What was it? They foiled the 3D printer initiative, was it? Woo-oo-oop! 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1108070
Starchild May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 What happens when Samaritan is gone? How do you top a god-like AI in the next season? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1108836
Camera One May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 They can't top that, so I don't expect Samaritan to be completely defeated next week. There's at least another season's worth of battles that could still result from this conflict. I only wish it's a little less lopsided. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1108857
stealinghome May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I don't see Samaritan being ended tomorrow. That would be way too much of an ass-pull and there's still so much potential in that story (whether it will be realized is another question). otoh, I am fervently praying for Dominic to be killed so he will finally.shut.up. I actually think that Team Machine has gotten a fair number of wins this season--I talked about that here--but what I want in S5 is for the team to be more damn proactive. Specifically, I need Harold to stop sitting on his ass being totally reactive to Samaritan and fucking around with the irrelevant numbers like everything is normal WHEN THERE IS AN EVIL ASI AFTER HIM AND HIS FRIENDS. (And plans that will 99% likely lead to his death don't count.) I can't handle Harold's "stick my head in the sand and sing 'lalala' and hope all my problems will be solved!" MO anymore when it comes to Samaritan. Get in the game, dude. (And I am hopeful that that's what the finale is setting up--I've theorized that a backup of The Machine is going in the indestructible case while Samaritan seems to kill the TM that's not in the case, and if that happens, even if he understands intellectually that there's a backup, Harold should flip his shit when he sees his "child" be murdered in front of him. He's been pretty stagnant this season, but I'm hoping watching TM die will lead to Finch Unleashed next season. I've been dying to see Finch Unleased for.freaking.ever, so!) Edited May 5, 2015 by stealinghome 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1109002
bros402 May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I'm guessing that in the season finale, TM will hit Samaritan hard - we know it has been recruiting assets - harder than it expected to be hit - maybe disrupting its connection to the govvernment feeds? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1109388
Netfoot May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 (edited) Really? I'm expecting Samaritan to dole out a whole load of whoopass, and TM to scuttle off with it's tail between it's legs. Naturally, TM will pull a rabbit out of a hat and in the dying minutes of the season it may land a blow or two, but I'm with stealinghome -- I think that Samaritan will be the effective winner of the up-coming confrontation, and the best TM will manage is to skulk down some sewer or storm drain, with a backup of the Machine in the Case of Indestructible Carrying. There is always the possibility that Samaritan will be tricked into entering the CoIC and isolated there (trapped, imprisoned), leaving Greer with a load of expensive hardware and no ASI to run on it. But frankly, I'll be very surprised if the writers go this route. Edited May 5, 2015 by Netfoot 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1109456
Trey May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I just hope they defeat Samaritan in tonight's episode and this whole storyline is done. Just in case it doesn't get renewed. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1110613
kwnyc May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 the best TM will manage is to skulk down some sewer or storm drain, with a backup of the Machine in the Case of Indestructible Carrying. Unless...the case is for SAMARITAN! I am put in mind of the TNG episode where Wesley accidentally invented a sentient civilization of nanites, who colonized the Enterprise, until they were tricked into a small container that was sent on its way to found a very tiny world. If something like this happens, please credit me when you tweet & post ;-) 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1111361
Netfoot May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 (edited) Unless...the case is for SAMARITAN! Well... as I said in my post: There is always the possibility that Samaritan will be tricked into entering the CoIC and isolated there (trapped, imprisoned)... So... I don't think it will go this way, but... Edited May 5, 2015 by Netfoot 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1111819
Maverick May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 I am put in mind of the TNG episode where Wesley accidentally invented a sentient civilization of nanites, who colonized the Enterprise, until they were tricked into a small container that was sent on its way to found a very tiny world. Picard actually negotiated a truce with the nanites (using Data as an intermediary) and they willing left the ship. Picard, Data and Barclay tricked hologram!Moriarty and hologram!Regina into turning over control of the ship and let them think they had escaped into the real world in a shuttle when in reality they were stuck in a little yellow cube living out a holographic life. [/stark Trek nerd] 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1112024
kwnyc May 5, 2015 Share May 5, 2015 Well either one of those will do for me ;-) 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1112046
Mom x 3 May 22, 2015 Share May 22, 2015 What I want to know is whether The Machine contacted her before or after she agreed to work with Dominic to get info from Reese and Fusco. Ie, was she a plant with Dominic to begin with, or did she first accept Dominic's offer and only then, after The Machine knew she could endanger our guys, did The Machine reach out with a better offer than Dominic's? I lean toward the second option--it just makes more sense given the events of the episode--but I wouldn't be surprised if the show spins it as Door #1. I'm with you on option number 2. I think Harper is an opportunist, plain and simple. In my opinion, she accepted a position with the Brotherhood because that was the most profitable option, until a more profitable option presented itself. This is her "Han shot first" moment for me, showing that she really is kind of a scoundrel, whereas her previous exploits just made her seem like a goofy kid thinking she knows it all and can run with the big boys. I like it because it adds some interest and depth to a relatively bland character. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/25377-s04e21-asylum/page/2/#findComment-1174139
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