S01.E18: All Star Team Up

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, she needed an explanation why she would take him to Cisco to fix his suit.

 

Add in showing up uninvited to boot, and I don't see why Ray's suit destroyed the sidewalk during the landing -- and since it did wouldn't Dr. Wells be all "Thanks, but you just destroyed the wheelchair access to my van". </snark>

 

I'm still pissed that Felicity divulged to Ray who The Flash was without consulting anyone on the STAR labs team beforehand.  Just because Ray knows about the Arrow, Ray and the Arrow are just regular guys by comparison while Barry is an actual metahuman with fantastic powers -- something a tech billionaire might try and take advantage of.

 

And on that note, why did Ray fly into Central City?  Does he want to advertise to everyone The Atom and Ray Palmer are there at the same time?

 

Because I'm pretty sure that Ray = The Atom isn't public knowledge at this point.  And maybe Cisco should hook him up with some stealth tech as well as a can of Flex Seal (as seen on TV) for his water resistance issues.

[Actionmage]

(from the recap)

Thinking they're going to karaoke, Cisco and Caitlin come to pick up Barry and the police station

 

I love the visuals I get from that! Daytime bulwark against crime, but by night? Karaoke Kops! Whoot whoot!

[marketdoctor]

 

[hoping]...Cisco has some kind of power that explains this because I can accept a dude in a hood shooting Arrows, Bug Girl, rival Speedsters, meta humans sprinkled everywhere, and a talking Gorilla, but I can't accept a dream about an alternate timeline that was erased without some sort of explanations.

 

This is almost plausible with a few lines of dialogue:  the idea that the other timeline is another universe (and still there), though it'd be better if Barry also experienced "leakage" from that universe.  It could also let them explain deja-vu.  "Millions for special effects, but not one penny for plausible explanations."

 

No offense to Emily Kinney, but I was a little sad they didn't bring in Anna Easteden as the Bee woman; that would have been a funny "Who Wants to be A Superhero" callback.  I know, that was a Stan Lee production, and they don't cross over much.  Still, it would have been funny.

[TwistedandBored]

At this point the only reason why Iris doesn't know the truth is so it can be used against Team Flash in either the finale or the episode before the season finale. In the name of the plot point that is coming up, Iris must never know!!!

[calliope1975]

At this point the only reason why Iris doesn't know the truth is so it can be used against Team Flash in either the finale or the episode before the season finale. In the name of the plot point that is coming up, Iris must never know!!!

 

Yeah, it seems like this is building to something - I just don't know if it's going to be worth it. The EPs know it's a problem since they've talked about it in interviews, though I'm not confident that these writers make the best decisions. At this point, I kind of want Iris to go scorched Earth on everyone. That's probably not a heroic thing to do, but I'd put all these mofos on blast because I am petty and vindictive. (Not really, but fictionally, I'd like to think I probably could be.)

[TwistedandBored]

I want Iris to go off on Eddie, Joe, and Barry too. I don't want her to be mad for just one episode. I want this have some sort of ramifications that is felt by everyone. What they are doing is wrong and would cost them Iris ever trusting their judgment again…at least for a while. 

[tennisgurl]

As soon as I saw Hudson University, I knew shit was going down! No matter what show, that place is a death trap! Going to Husdon University is about as safe as being the drummer from Spinal Tap! 

[Moda29]

I enjoy both The Flash and Arrow, but I'm honestly kind of exhausted by all of the crossovers and backdoor pilots.

[tennisgurl]

Such is the power and charm of Cisco that he actually made me kind of like Ray "TinCan Iron Man) Palmer. I actually thought they has WAY more chemistry than Ray and Felicity do. I have never bought them as a couple, and the continued "OMG Ray is AWESOME" will never not be annoying to me.

 

I swear, Iris and Quentin from Arrow need to start some kind of "My loved ones keep huge secrets from me for incredibly condescending reasons" support group. If she`s so pissed about all this that she tells everyone to kindly fuck off, I wouldnt blame her.

 

Glad that Barry told Caitlin and Cisco the truth. I was worried about them. Pretty sure Cisco`s powers had something to do with alternate dimensions? I think I saw that once? I cant wait for Cisco to get powers. No one in the DC universe deserves them more than Cisco.

 

Kept waiting for Emma Kinny to break into song. I know she isn't super popular around these parts, but I have a soft spot for her. Plus, her bee outfit was pretty cute.

 

Why didn't Felicity say something like "Sara died" instead of "Laurel become BC". Didn't she want Laurel to take over? 

 

All in all, enjoyable episode. 

[AudienceofOne]

I was mostly too distracted by the fact that this was a rewritten episode of Smallville. Even some of the shots were recycled Smallville shots. And if you're going to rip something off, please don't make it Smallville.

 

I think the Director told Ray to play his character differently in this and that Brandon Routh was struggling with it. He developed the character for Arrow and now they're trying to say he's a geeky Barry-esque person, which is not in line with what we've seen before. As a consequence, his attempts to stay in character and be a bumbling geek at the same time fell flat.

 

While this show has its moments, the showrunners really aren't great at consistent direction or characterisation.

[Trini]

[hoping]...Cisco has some kind of power that explains this because I can accept a dude in a hood shooting Arrows, Bug Girl, rival Speedsters, meta humans sprinkled everywhere, and a talking Gorilla, but I can't accept a dream about an alternate timeline that was erased without some sort of explanations.

 

This is almost plausible with a few lines of dialogue:  the idea that the other timeline is another universe (and still there), though it'd be better if Barry also experienced "leakage" from that universe.  It could also let them explain deja-vu.  "Millions for special effects, but not one penny for plausible explanations."

 

I had the idea that maybe Cisco's proximity to Barry/the speed force is what triggered the "memories".

[Latverian Diplomat]

All Star Team up? Are you kidding me with that name? Atom is not an All Star.

 

 

It's a reference to the first time Flash and Atom worked together, as founding members of the Justice Society of America way back in All Star Comics #3 in 1940. Those weren't this Atom and this Flash, but the Golden Age heroes; still, it's a nod to history.

[In2You]

It's a reference to the first time Flash and Atom worked together, as founding members of the Justice Society of America way back in All Star Comics #3 in 1940. Those weren't this Atom and this Flash, but the Golden Age heroes; still, it's a nod to history.

Its a nod to history but not to the history of anything that has to do with this show. As far as we know JSA and Jay Garrick don't exist in this universe. 

[catrice2]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense that seeing how Barry can't seem to act normal around Wells with the "secret" they would want to tell two other people who work closely with him and trust them to act normally.

 

I wasn't sure if it meant something that the bug lady saw Barry's face with her robot. At this point, it is already easier to keep a list of who does NOT know Barry is the flash instead of who does. 

 

Again, why do they call him by his name while he is on the earpiece with them, out in the open etc? I am tired of everyone calling him Barry while he is dressed up as the Flash and not knowing if anyone else is in earshot. 

 

I'm sorry, I know many like Eddie, but he is as exciting as paint drying.  I can't buy Barry or Eddie as a love interest for Iris, for different reasons.  

 

How old are Ray and Felicity supposed to be?  Dorkiness aside, I am always confused by the juvenile conversations that some of these characters have.  We can keep it light and fun without writing them as high school characters.  

 

I actually prefer Felicity away from Oliver.. 

 

I can only take little bits of Cisco.

 

The bug lady was boring 

Iris always looks overdressed. 

What was going on with Felicity's hair? 

I am not sure what they are going for with Ray's portrayal. 

 

Subconsciously, do you think Barry knew this would cause problems with Iris and Eddie? I mean , people always question Iris' intentions. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by catrice2

[benteen]

I get why Eddie's hesitant, it's not his secret to tell. What makes him better than Barry in my eyes is he at least feels guilty about it and keeps asking them why they are not telling her and doesn't agree that it's "protecting" her. I'm about ready to have him tell Iris "Ask your father and Barry why I can't tell you what's going on with me, They told me not to tell you. It's not my secret, it's theirs to tell."  

 

This 1000X.  This should absolutely be Eddie's response.  Joe and Barry have put him in a bad position with their sociopathic lying...Eddie doesn't need to sacrifice his relationship with Iris for them (though I agree that Iris was a little too unreasonable by demanding 100% honesty). 

[CabotCove]

I don't disagree about how Ray has mostly been written as comedic, but as I went on to say, he being comedic doesn't really work when he's so out of step with the tone of the rest of the show.  It's hard for me to find Ray amusing when everyone around him was barely holding it together.  Too many times we had Palmer cracking bad jokes while Felicity was trying not to weep.

 

Really,... from what I can tell she usually joins in. It looks to me like she enjoys it when there is someone else who speaks her "language" or something similar. Yeah I guess it works better  if he has other comical characters to bounce off on, though he has Felicity over at Arrow so he hasnt been exactly alone and Felicity used to be the only one over there in a sea of broody characters. I didnt really see anyone wanting her to be chucked out of the show for that. Having "straight men" to bounce off on can be beneficial too Imo. 

 

I actually prefer Felicity away from Oliver..

 

For this alone you get a huge thumb up (like) . To me she just seems more like herself, more confident, happy, empowered even smarter away from that guy. As much as I cringe on some of the OTT stuff on The Flash, Felicity being on The Flash is really becoming a highlight for me and something to look forward to. Even so much better when she doesn't bring Oliver along.

 

ETA: I hope Amanda Pays' character becomes a regular. She could take over as the team's genius scientist and mentor once Wells is exposed and rejected.

 

I hope so too.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Conell

[Lady Calypso]

It really is ridiculous why Iris doesn't know, at this point. I don't HATE Barry, but I'm more annoyed that he won't tell Iris. But I actually put full blame on Joe for not telling Iris. Not to mention he tells Barry and Eddie not to say a word. Granted, they could do it anyway, Joe be damned, but I guess I can see why they wouldn't right away. Now, for Barry it's his secret and he should tell it to Iris, Joe or no Joe. It's not Joe's secret; therefore, he doesn't get 'dibs' on secret withholding. I see why Eddie isn't saying anything yet, and I love how he's not making it easy on them. It seriously is affecting their relationship. Maybe you guys should have thought of that before telling him about The Flash. And Barry, you SEE Eddie and Iris' relationship crumbling in front of your eyes because of it. Maybe it's time to, I don't know, be a good guy as Barry Allen and tell Iris? So you're not being completely selfish? 

 

Jesus. I used to love Joe and love that he knew the secret. Now I wish he turned out more like Quentin...actually, no, scratch that. Quentin's gone cray-cray on Arrow. But I wish Joe was still in the dark about The Flash. Then, at least his misogyny or whatnot would be more under wraps. And another note, I HATE how Barry gets all the family feels with Joe. HATE. I used to like that relationship. Now I resent it and feel bad for Iris, who doesn't seem to have a dad and has a dictator of her life instead....I guess you guys now realize that I am on the Team Iris train? And I don't want her too mad at Eddie, because at least he's showing strong remorse. It's Barry and Joe that need to be sent back in time. 

 

I don't fully understand how Cisco can remember the alternate timeline, but I guess theyll explain that sometime this season. I figured there would be something to get them all to know what happened with Wells/Cisco in alt timeline, so I guess this is how they know how EVIL Wells/Thawne is. 

 

Ray and Felicity...GO AWAY. Felicity, not your secret to tell, my god. It's like Barry telling Iris that Oliver is the Arrow. Inappropriate, and not your secret to tell! If Barry wants to be attacked 24/7 because of his big fat mouth (except when it comes to Iris), then fine! But you shouldn't be telling your boyfriend of a month who The Flash is. Not cool. Also, I like Felicity/Barry a whole lot more than Felicity/Ray. But...I will admit, Ray and Cisco's friendship was fun. 

 

I'm just...still so, so annoyed at Iris' treatment. At this point, it's fully ruining the show for me. Not even Wells/Thawne is saving it for me, and I had really high hopes for this show. 

[driedfruit]

I hate how they're going about breaking up Eddie/Iris and making Eddie evil. So stupid and annoying. I, too, much prefer Eddie/Iris to Barry/Iris and just Eddie in general to Barry. Although, that's on me, obviously Barry is the lead and Barry/Iris is endgame so I knew what I was getting into, but I expected better than this bullshit with Eddie.

 

 

This. This so much. This whole thing makes little sense to me if Barry/Iris is supposed to be endgame, which they obviously are. Barry is awful and Iris should honestly hate him and never trust him when she finds out. Also, Iris not being clued into Barry lying but immediately knowing Eddie is doesn't say much about her relationship with Barry. Or it says Barry is a great liar, which doesn't say much about Barry and doesn't make me want him and Iris to be together at all. I'm gonna be so pissed when Iris/Eddie break up over this and yet Iris eventually forgives Barry and falls for him. Hate it.

 

Once Iris finds out, she'll more than likely understand Eddie's dilemma and forgive him. I definitely don't think this is the end of them or that they'll end up breaking up for good over Barry's lies. I actually think this might lead to Iris/Eddie becoming closer and possibly even engaged the end of this season or in the next one. 

[ParadoxLost]

But I actually put full blame on Joe for not telling Iris. Not to mention he tells Barry and Eddie not to say a word. Granted, they could do it anyway, Joe be damned, but I guess I can see why they wouldn't right away. Now, for Barry it's his secret and he should tell it to Iris, Joe or no Joe. It's not Joe's secret; therefore, he doesn't get 'dibs' on secret withholding.

 

I was filled with dread when Joe declared that Eddie was allowed to make the decision to tell Iris when he became the husband not the boyfriend.  If there was ever an anvil that a wedding is coming for completely stupid reasons and just to create drama then that was it.  I think Eddie proposes and then angst follows as all the men in her life decide whether she's told before or after the wedding, while Barry is torn about whether to try to stop the wedding or be noble.

Edited April 16, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[AD35]

This felt more like a filler ep to me, enjoyable but still filler. I'm not a regular watcher of Arrow so I have no idea of how Routh is on on that show, but I thought he was tolerable for being  a discount-priced Iron Man/billionaire. As for practically everyone knowing about Barry's other identity except Iris, if Grant Gustin ever guest hosts on SNL in the near future, they have got to work that into a skit. At least Iris knows something is up even if she doesn't know exactly what it is yet.

[phoenics]

I was filled with dread when Joe declared that Eddie was allowed to make the decision to tell Iris when he became the husband not the boyfriend.  If there was ever an anvil that a wedding is coming for completely stupid reasons and just to create drama then that was it.  I think Eddie proposes and then angst follows as all the men in her life decide whether she's told before or after the wedding, while Barry is torn about whether to try to stop the wedding or be noble.

Regarding the "when you're the husband" comment Joe made - I agree it was about foreshadowing Eddie proposing (which means Iris will probably just decide that the big secret is him proposing - blech) - but my question is: Do the writers realize how sexist Joe sounded? Combined with his stuck in the 50s control over his daughter's life, the husband crack was really, really bad.

I hope this wasn't a case where they threw that in to foreshadow a proposal, not understanding just how horribly sexist it came out given their overarching "protect the little woman cause dad says so" plot.

[ParadoxLost]

Regarding the "when you're the husband" comment Joe made - I agree it was about foreshadowing Eddie proposing (which means Iris will probably just decide that the big secret is him proposing - blech) - but my question is: Do the writers realize how sexist Joe sounded? Combined with his stuck in the 50s control over his daughter's life, the husband crack was really, really bad.

I hope this wasn't a case where they threw that in to foreshadow a proposal, not understanding just how horribly sexist it came out given their overarching "protect the little woman cause dad says so" plot.

 

I think they started out with Joe being more paternalistic because he treated both Barry and Iris like little kids that had to be protected earlier in the series.  That became more sexist because they needed Joe to work with Barry as the Flash for the plot so his behavior had to change towards Barry.  Joe still thinks he can tell Barry who he can and can not trust.

 

I'm not sure if they've realized how badly Joe's attitude towards Iris comes off or not.  If they do, I think they see it as a necessary evil to give Barry some cover on keeping this a secret.  Same thing with Eddie being told.  Its to make Barry less guilty by comparison because keeping the secret is now a conspiracy and both Eddie and Barry caved to Joe's dictate. 

[AudienceofOne]

I'm not sure if they've realized how badly Joe's attitude towards Iris comes off or not.

 

 

I thought the whole "I have control of her until you become her husband, at which stage I cede control to you" thing was a step too far in Joe's paternalism. It actually made me quite angry.

[driedfruit]

Regarding the "when you're the husband" comment Joe made - I agree it was about foreshadowing Eddie proposing (which means Iris will probably just decide that the big secret is him proposing - blech) - 

 

Oh good god. I suppose this might as well be coming, but I hope Iris discovers the truth beforehand.  

 

The problematic lines one this show keep getting worst. I don't know how the writers might be this blind, but it's perfectly plausible that they didn't see anything wrong with Joe's attitude. Eddie certainly didn't take issue with it, other than the part where he wasn't the decision making husband yet. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by driedfruit

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I spent half this episode making Nick Cage in the Wickerman remake jokes. 

 

"NOOOOO NOT THE BEES!!! AHHH MY EYES!!!!" 

 

Better BEE careful! 

Edited April 16, 2015 by tennisgurl

[millennium]

Two questions:

 

1) Who could ever love Iris West?

 

2) Why is The Flash ten times more interesting than Arrow right now?

[Oscirus]

If she thought it was cheating, would he openly tell her he would tell her if he could?  Honestly, I don't think Iris would really react in these circumstances like this.

 

I think this is just a case of the writers thinking that girls talk like melodramatic soap opera clichés. As you pretty much stated, she had more then enough reasons to be mad at Eddie without adding that bit of foolishness in.

 

IMO, The Flash is too new a show to carry the burden of propping up the lower rated Arrow, plus the creation of new shows in the franchise. Instead of trying to make more money, the showrunners/creators need to concentrate on developing The Flash or it will collapse before it truly gets off the ground.

 

Exactly. If they're that worried about Arrow's ratings then make Tuesday a comic book night and have Flash lead into Arrow. 

 

Just before Barry came in and grabbed the robot bee to save Wells, was Wells going to stand up, or was he going to kick the bee with his super speed?  I saw his leg start to move.

 

 

He was probably going to take off.

 

It's a reference to the first time Flash and Atom worked together, as founding members of the Justice Society of America way back in All Star Comics #3 in 1940. Those weren't this Atom and this Flash, but the Golden Age heroes; still, it's a nod to history.

 

Thanks for the knowledge.  While I'll give them props for a call back like that, I still think that name comes off as arrogant.

 

So those who were saying that Pied piper was sent to the lab prison because of the information he had against Flash, defend the fact that they sent bug lady to a regular prison when she had the same info.

 

I agree with those that say that Felicity should keep her mouth shut about Barry's identity.  She could've told Ray about the lab without outing Barry's identity.

 

Finally, are the writers planning on creating a story for Caitlin anytime soon?  I get that she's not that interesting but wow!

[chelsie]

I don't think the "don't tell Iris" club are lying to be malicious, they really do think that her being in the dark is protecting her (however misguided that maybe)...   Some parents are overzealous when it comes to wanting to protect their kids.

However, that becomes null when Barry et al are galivanting around exposed and shouting from the roof tops about Flash's identity.

Edited April 16, 2015 by chelsie

[peachmangosteen]

Once Iris finds out, she'll more than likely understand Eddie's dilemma and forgive him. I definitely don't think this is the end of them or that they'll end up breaking up for good over Barry's lies. I actually think this might lead to Iris/Eddie becoming closer and possibly even engaged the end of this season or in the next one. 

 

Ugh, that's even worse!

[Al Herkimer]

Bizarre that Joe could be painted as a villain for saying something that's been true for 3000 years.

[FurryFury]

Which is what, that women are the property of their fathers and husbands? Wow.

[chelsie]

Unfortunate line aside, I don't feel that Joe thinks that believes that Iris is anyone's property. I honestly am not seeing his wanting to "protect" Iris from the truth as coming  from a place of sexism but of person going about it the wrong way due to looking at the situation from the emotive stance of a parent;  Iris is the only relative he has, his only child, it would kill him if he lost her. In any case, when he found out that Eddie was dating his daughter, Joe went out of his way to protect him. He's just a character that may overdo it when he wants to keep the ones he love safe.

 

Re:the "when you're her husband" line, I just saw as him shutting down the conversation.

 

I suppose the whole 'keep Iris in the dark' can be interpreted as sexist, as its a well worn trope, but I just see it as lacking logic. Keeping a secret from loved ones only works if the masked hero is keeping the identity secret.

 

Im still not sure how Barry ended up flat out supecting Wells as shady. I mean, I know Mason went missing but how can Wells be involved? In the episode following out of time Wells more or less behaved himself and made no strange comments.

[millennium]

The casual manner in which both Flash and Arrow trade in secret identities grates on me.   Secret identities are fast becoming an inside joke on these shows.   It has been long established that preserving secret identities is essential to the safety of loved ones, yet secrets are swapped like juicy gossip on Flash and Arrow.    The Justice League should never allow those two or their cohorts anywhere near the satellite.    Can you imagine Felicity with Batman or Superman's secret identity?

 

Speaking of Felicity ...  a great disappointment in this episode.   Gushing over Ray's sexual prowess was gross and far beneath the character -- as was her whole "and this is my BOYFRIEND" demeanor.    And the flighty, dismissive way she blew off everything that was happening in Starling City seemed entirely unlike her.    Bad, bad, bad.

[FurryFury]

It has been long established that preserving secret identities is essential to the safety of loved ones, yet secrets are swapped like juicy gossip on Flash and Arrow.

 

AFAIK, both AK and MG have repeatedly stated they aren't big fans of this trope and prefer to have more people in on the hero's secret. I actually agree with them, I can't stand all this overdone secret keeping stuff, personally. Which is why it continues to baffle me why keeping Iris in the dark is treated as so important on this show. I could understand Oliver not telling Laurel or his mother or hell even Thea (even if I still hated it), but keeping this secret from your BFF and a person you're supposed to trust the most makes zero sense.

[millennium]

AFAIK, both AK and MG have repeatedly stated they aren't big fans of this trope and prefer to have more people in on the hero's secret. I actually agree with them, I can't stand all this overdone secret keeping stuff, personally. Which is why it continues to baffle me why keeping Iris in the dark is treated as so important on this show. I could understand Oliver not telling Laurel or his mother or hell even Thea (even if I still hated it), but keeping this secret from your BFF and a person you're supposed to trust the most makes zero sense.

 

Lots of irritation in this thread that Barry won't divulge to Iris.    I can't recall people ragging on Superman for keeping his identity secret from Lois all those years.

 

Maybe it has something to do with this era we live in where folks are hooked on "sharing" every aspect of their lives.  

[AudienceofOne]

More to do with the fact he's practically put out a notice with his secret identity in the local paper

[phoenics]

Lots of irritation in this thread that Barry won't divulge to Iris.    I can't recall people ragging on Superman for keeping his identity secret from Lois all those years.

 

Maybe it has something to do with this era we live in where folks are hooked on "sharing" every aspect of their lives.

Apples to oranges.

Superman didn't tell anyone his identity. Barry has told practically everyone. When the people who know your secret nears 20 and your best friend and supposed love of your life doesn't know - well, that's a problem.

[millennium]

I disagree.  It's his secret, he gets to decide who knows, and when.    His judgment should be respected. 

[driedfruit]

Lots of irritation in this thread that Barry won't divulge to Iris.    I can't recall people ragging on Superman for keeping his identity secret from Lois all those years.

 

Maybe it has something to do with this era we live in where folks are hooked on "sharing" every aspect of their lives.  

 

The annoying part for me isn't even the secret. It's that Barry and Co. are going behind Iris' back and manipulating her for the purpose of keeping her blind to the dangers that surround her. Maybe I don't remember as well, but Superman didn't try to inhibit Lois from doing her job and thinking/making decisions for herself.

[phoenics]

I disagree.  It's his secret, he gets to decide who knows, and when.    His judgment should be respected.

Sure, he can decide. And he can face the consequences of that choice.

His judgment is up for critique - by us and then by Iris when she finds out. How are you going to claim you love someone and you're their best friend and NOT tell them something that huge (and not tell them their life has been threatened)? But at the same time you tell nearly 20 other people?

Sorry - I don't have to just "respect" Barry. Or Joe. Or Eddie. It's not the 50s anymore.

And I suspect that when Iris finds out, there will be hell to pay and I am SO here for that.

The annoying part for me isn't even the secret. It's that Barry and Co. are going behind Iris' back and manipulating her for the purpose of keeping her blind to the dangers that surround her. Maybe I don't remember as well, but Superman didn't try to inhibit Lois from doing her job and thinking/making decisions for herself.

THIS! The secret is bad enough, but these men are literally derailing her reporting career. Her father already derailed two career paths before this one (I hope Iris explodes on him for that when she finds out) and now this?

It's inexcusable and sexist for them to just be doing this and taking away her agency like that. I'm infuriated just thinking about it.

[patchwork]

My concern is that all the writers are hearing is that we -the viewers- are unhappy that Iris doesn't know when for most people it how its being written rather than the lie itself.

 

Do they really understand how incredibly sexist Joe and Eddie's father/husband conversation was? 

[Actionmage]

So those who were saying that Pied piper was sent to the lab prison because of the information he had against Flash, defend the fact that they sent bug lady to a regular prison when she had the same info.

 

Not so much a defense, but a possibility:

 

I believe that Bree only saw Barry's face in his civilian seeming, not in his Flash suit. It is a known that Barry Allen hangs at STAR Labs, so that he was there isn't suspicious to the Central City cops. I also don't believe the bee was going  scary fast, so reasonable for a brave/ unknowing person to catch.  ( Yes, iirc, Barry caught the tech bee out of costume, that is sloppy. Then again, you've met our Mr. Allen, right? Dude who outed himself to a stranger because he thought Diggle would tell her Barry's secret. Then shrugged her knowing off.)

 

Now, if Bree overheard all the comms talk, where folks are talking to Barry and using his actual name ( wordy dirds!) over open radio frequencies, if she was as smart as presented? She sat on her knowledge and didn't let on. We may see her again.

[millennium]

Sure, he can decide. And he can face the consequences of that choice.

His judgment is up for critique - by us and then by Iris when she finds out. How are you going to claim you love someone and you're their best friend and NOT tell them something that huge (and not tell them their life has been threatened)? But at the same time you tell nearly 20 other people?

Sorry - I don't have to just "respect" Barry. Or Joe. Or Eddie. It's not the 50s anymore.

And I suspect that when Iris finds out, there will be hell to pay and I am SO here for that.

THIS! The secret is bad enough, but these men are literally derailing her reporting career. Her father already derailed two career paths before this one (I hope Iris explodes on him for that when she finds out) and now this?

It's inexcusable and sexist for them to just be doing this and taking away her agency like that. I'm infuriated just thinking about it.

 

Iris is a one-dimensional character who's unqualified to be news reporting at a professional level and now she's petulantly using emotional blackmail to extract information from Eddie.    She doesn't deserve to be in the loop.

[millennium]

Do they really understand how incredibly sexist Joe and Eddie's father/husband conversation was? 

 

I suppose you would object to Joe walking Iris down the aisle at her wedding because it's a holdover from olden times when fathers gave daughters away to suitors who compensated them with a few good horses or an ox.

 

Lighten up.   Joe is concerned as a father, and his line to Eddie, "when you're her husband" was his way of saying "your opinion about her welfare will carry weight when you demonstrate you love her enough to make a lifelong commitment."    It wasn't a male thing.   It was a family thing.

Edited April 17, 2015 by millennium

[driedfruit]

Iris is a one-dimensional character who's unqualified to be news reporting at a professional level and now she's petulantly using emotional blackmail to extract information from Eddie.    She doesn't deserve to be in the loop.

 

Because you don't like her she deserves to be mistreated and Barry can't be held accountable for mistreating her? In this logic, if Barry went around murdering extras then wouldn't be a big deal, right?

Edited April 17, 2015 by driedfruit

[phoenics]

Iris is a one-dimensional character who's unqualified to be news reporting at a professional level and now she's petulantly using emotional blackmail to extract information from Eddie.    She doesn't deserve to be in the loop.

Oh.

Well tell us how you really feel, lol.

I disagree. And I'm thinking that when Iris basically flattens Barry for keeping her out of said loop, he will regret not telling her. Whether he's right or wrong doesn't matter - what will matter is how Iris feels about it. Because when Iris finds out everything that Barry has done and all of his lies (and those of her father and Eddie), there will be hell to pay. And Barry won't care how justified he thought he was - he'll only care that his best friend and love of his life has basically disowned him for his actions.

He'll have betrayed Iris' trust and treated her shoddily as his best friend AND as a woman. I hope she roasts him over it.

[Trini]

I suppose you would object to Joe walking Iris down the aisle at her wedding because it's a holdover from olden times when fathers gave daughters away to suitors who compensated them with a few good horses or an ox.

 

Lighten up.   Joe is concerned as a father, and his line to Eddie, "when you're her husband" was his way of saying "your opinion about her welfare will carry weight when you demonstrate you love her enough to make a lifelong commitment."    It wasn't a male thing.   It was a family thing.

 

Really? When has a mother said that to her son's girlfriend (who is also her work partner) EVER?

[phoenics]

I suppose you would object to Joe walking Iris down the aisle at her wedding because it's a holdover from olden times when fathers gave daughters away to suitors who compensated them with a few good horses or an ox.

If Iris wanted him to walk her down the aisle, then I'd be cool with that. It's intent that matters and today people have redefined old traditions in ways that aren't necessarily sexist.

Lighten up.

A bit marginalizing, don't you think? So sorry if our abhorrence over sexism is too dark of a subject.

Joe is concerned as a father, and his line to Eddie, "when you're her husband" was his way of saying "your opinion about her welfare will carry weight when you demonstrate you love her enough to make a lifelong commitment."    It wasn't a male thing.   It was a family thing.

LOL - I disagree. I do believe that Joe is concerned as a father... but given all of his behavior and his bulldozing through Eddie's and Barry's (initial) concerns because he's her dad it read as sexist.

But I think it's besides the point - Joe has derailed TWO careers so far for Iris and this latest stunt could kill her reporting career. He's taken away her agency (without her knowledge) and roped Barry/Eddie into doing it and then Eddie makes a very valid comment, he slams him with the "husband" comment. It read as very sexist and very paternalistic and not in a good way.

My issue with Barry is that he should know Iris well enough to know that she won't take this well at all. Hopefully he's looking at how she's reacting to Eddie right now and seeing his own future - when Iris finds out she'd have EVERY right to dump him as her friend and to never look back. And hopefully she'll kick his @ss while she's at it.

Barry may think he has good reason for this and if it hadn't been for ERRRBODY knowing except Iris, I'd probably be able to go along with it longer. But the fact that she's SO left out just bothers me.

And if Iris interprets Barry's exclusion of her as him leaving out of some "super awesome friend club that he deemed her unworthy of", she's going to be even angrier.

I hope she buries him and her dad. Eddie I hope she doesn't rake over it too badly - but she likely will see all of them as the same and feel betrayed by all of them. And she'd be right.

[Actionmage]

Lighten up.   Joe is concerned as a father, and his line to Eddie, "when you're her husband" was his way of saying "your opinion about her welfare will carry weight when you demonstrate you love her enough to make a lifelong commitment."    It wasn't a male thing.   It was a family thing.

 

It was a control thing. From the pilot, Joe has a need to control what Iris knows and does. It is overprotection gone toxic and it is endangering Iris.

 

Reverse Flash told Joe to quit digging into Nora Allen's death/murder, or else. A knife through Iris' picture isn't idle and, I would hope, not blown off. Barry knows about the threat too, yet he hasn't told his BFF and would-be love interest that her life is in danger and from who. Barry and Joe  both know now and Iris is still in the dark. How is not informing a person of a serious death threat no big? 

 

Joe has set down a pattern of overbearing "protection", that even extended to the CCPD!, and the Joe/Eddie argument was just the ugliest manifestation of it.

 

I want to unreservedly love Joe again, but I can't when he is the one who is an even bigger danger to Iris than the Reverse Flash.

 

edited because good sentence structure is good.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Actionmage

[phoenics]

It was a control thing. From the pilot, Joe has a need to control what Iris knows and does. It is overprotection gone toxic and it is endangering Iris.

 

Reverse Flash told Joe to quit digging into Nora Allen's death/murder, or else. A knife through Iris' picture isn't idle and, I would hope, not blown off. Barry knows about the threat too, yet he hasn't told his BFF and would-be love interest that her life is in danger and from who. Barry and Joe know both now and Iris is still in the dark. How is not informing a person of a serious death threat no big? 

 

Joe has set down a pattern of overbearing "protection", that even extended to the CCPD!, and the Joe/Eddie argument was just the ugliest manifestation of it.

 

I want to unreservedly love Joe again, but I can't when he is the one who is an even bigger danger to Iris than the Reverse Flash.

Given that Harrison has a camera of some sort in Barry's office where he, Eddie, Joe and now Cisco and Caitlin are talking about the "investigation" of Wells, he could make good on his threat to take out Iris anytime now.

All of them better pray that Wells doesn't harm Iris - it would be their fault if he got to her because she had no knowledge to protect herself.