S01.E10: By The Pricking Of My Thumbs

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:
 
Jamie hopes the Duke of Sandringham can help remove the price on his head, while Claire works to save an abandoned child.

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. next week's preview) should be in spoiler tags. Book Talk folks, there is another episode topic for you.

[psychoticstate]

So this is the second week in a row that Jamie told Claire specifically not to do something and as soon as he is out of her sightline, she does exactly what he's asked her not to.

 

Huh.

[nara]

I laughed that there were 2 references to Claire's English coldness in this episode--ironic for an episode that started with some clearly unprudish behavior!  BTW, Starz's idea of brief nudity and mine are very different.

 

LOL-Murtagh!  Surely you know better than to band on the door of a newly married couple in the early morning.  And the awkwardness of finding Claire in a clearly post-orgasmic state--loved it.  Perhaps Jamie needs to institute a sock on the door policy!

 

I liked that Claire confronted Laoghaire, though I wish Jamie had done it and made his position clear.  Was hoping that Jamie and Claire would show a lot of public PDA so we could see Laoghaire's reaction.  I only hope that Claire will not lose Mrs. Fitz as a friend in the process.  When Laoghaire gave that sly look at the end, after arranging for Claire to be arrested, I wanted to jump through my TV screen and throttle her.  (Is there an app for that?)

 

I enjoyed the extra time with Geillis Duncan.  I had been missing her character.  The flashback/forward to the ladies at Craigh Na Dun was well done.  I would not have made the connection myself.  Now we know that Geillis practices witchcraft, so I don't understand why Claire doesn't see the risks in associating with her.  I know we didn't burn witches in 1945, but still...

 

So this is the second week in a row that Jamie told Claire specifically not to do something and as soon as he is out of her sightline, she does exactly what he's asked her not to.

 

Huh.

Girlfriend is a sloooow learner.  Jamie could have been a little clearer about the threat to ensure she understands the seriousness.  But why didn't she confront Geillis about selling Laoghaire the ill-wish?  Did she not believe Laoghaire?  Surely after seeing that weird dance in the woods and knowing that Geillis sells the girls herbs to induce abortions (from one of the earlier episodes), etc.  she must realize that an ill-wish would be within her wheelhouse.  (ETA: CatMack pointed out that I missed this discussion in the show.  Thanks, CatMack!  Must have been distracted by the crazy dancing/spirit sex or whatever it was.)

 

Okay, so I am not buying the Dougal-Geillis love affair.  Of course, I can imagine that Dougal would not leave such a beautiful woman as Geillis alone, when he made a pass at Claire on her wedding day.  However, there has been no interaction between them before and no hint that they have even had a conversation.  It felt a little like a plot twist thrown in there.  I also thought Dougal's reaction to his wife's death was odd--and frankly, not well acted.  I can accept that he feels guilty because he's left her at their estate and is carrying on with Geillis and fathered Hamish, but the nature of his grief seemed more like someone who was genuinely sad at her death.  And Geillis murdering her husband?  Man that's cold!

 

Duke of Sandringham-- I like Simon Callow in this role--he's quite fun.  But how did Claire go to visit him without Jamie knowing?  That duel seemed really strange and perhaps just an opportunity to show off Jamie's fighting skills.  Or can we hope that Jamie's outlaw status is nearly at an end?  I don't quite understand why Claire was so mad at Jamie for getting injured.  He was attacked--what was he supposed to do?

 

Collum -- Is it me, or is he getting more and more detached from reality?  He seems to think that no one can do anything without his leave, and seems to be alienating himself from all his supporters.  I'm curious about the long-term impact of his actions to his lairdship. Or does he know his days are numbered and is trying desperately to hang on to any power that he has?   I do think it was smart to keep Claire a hostage to Jamie's good behavior.

Edited April 12, 2015 by nara

[CatMack]

Now we know that Geillis practices witchcraft, so I don't understand why Claire doesn't see the risks in associating with her.  I know we didn't burn witches in 1945, but still...

 

Girlfriend is a sloooow learner.  Jamie could have been a little clearer about the threat to ensure she understands the seriousness.  But why didn't she confront Geillis about selling Laoghaire the ill-wish?  Did she not believe Laoghaire?  Surely after seeing that weird dance in the woods and knowing that Geillis sells the girls herbs to induce abortions (from one of the earlier episodes), etc.  she must realize that an ill-wish would be within her wheelhouse.

 

I think she does understand the danger, I think that's why she goes.  Claire is pretty immediately trying to get Geillis out the door once she arrives at her house.  It takes her no time at all to realize what's happening.  Whatever else she is, Geillis has been Claire's only friend, and she wants to save her.  I don't think it's ignorance about the risk, I think it's her making an active choice to help anyway because trying to help someone she cares about is worth it to her.  I think it's good to keep in mind that Claire was a battlefield nurse and is no stranger to danger (heh, sorry for the rhyme) and there's a difference between being stupidly ignorant of her situation, and understanding it but having instincts greater than self preservation.  That doesn't mean stupidity is out of the question, but not every instance of her doing something that puts herself at risk is gonna be because she doesn't know it's a risk.  Sometimes people judge risks to be worth it, whether an outside observer would agree or not.  

 

And she did ask Geillis about the ill wish, for the record, though it happened off screen.  When they cut from Geillis being naked and talking to Claire in the clearing, to them fully clothed and walking home, Geillis is apologizing to Claire and saying she didn't know who Laoghaire wanted the ill wish for and wouldn't have sold it to her if she did.  

[WatchrTina]

 

Duke of Sandringham-- I like Simon Callow in this role--he's quite fun.  But how did Claire go to visit him without Jamie knowing?

I assumed that now that Claire is the niece of the Laird she has much more freedom of the castle and could borrow a horse anytime she wanted.  That's clearly what she did to ride to Geilli's house in response to the note so I assumed she did the same to ride to the Duke's house (though how she knew WHERE it was I don't understand.)

 

The thing that I thought was more peculiar was Claire wandering around in the woods by herself looking for Geillis, just to ask her about the ill-wish.  That could really have waited until they next ran into one another.  And how, exactly did Claire slip out of the bed of a very attentive husband to go wandering about in the woods in the pre-dawn hours?  That made no sense to me.  

[absnow54]

This episode was a lot of fun. I loved the duel scene, it feels like it's been forever since Jamie got into a dumb fight, and Claire had to sew him back together. I also feel like half the clips in the credits were from this episode. 

[bluebonnet]

Okay, so I am not buying the Dougal-Geillis love affair.  Of course, I can imagine that Dougal would not leave such a beautiful woman as Geillis alone, when he made a pass at Claire on her wedding day.  However, there has been no interaction between them before and no hint that they have even had a conversation.  It felt a little like a plot twist thrown in there.  

The conversation hint came when Dougal told Claire that he would take her to see Geillis in town.  Later Geillis cheekily tells Claire that there are mysteries abound.  So yeah, we've hints.  

[Nidratime]

Yes, when Dougal took Claire in town to replenish her "medicine cabinet," the underlying message was that Dougal and Geillis were also meeting or there was an exchange of messages.... Can't remember.

[WatchrTina]

 

there was an exchange of messages.... Can't remember.

In episode 3 (The Way Out) Geillis gives Claire a "bill" for the necessaries that she's provided for the Gathering and asks Claire to deliver it to Dougal and only Dougal.  So yeah, that now looks like a hint at secret communications between Dougal and Geillis.

[iMonrey]

Something has been bugging me for the past two episodes. We've gotten no insight whatsover to how Claire feels about her very near-miss in getting back to the stones. I mean, the first eight episodes she did nothing but plot to get back to them, then she finally does only to be dragged away by British soldiers, and now it's like she's forgotten all about them. Does she still want to try to get back to her own time or has she just given up?

 

Frankly Claire is starting to really bug me. For one thing she just can't seem to keep her mouth shut. It was one thing in the beginning but she should know better by now. For another thing she can't seem to do as she's told. Not that she should do whatever she's told "because she's a woman" but because she should realize by now it's a lot safer that way. I see another spanking in her future.

[Crackers]

Personally, I'd like to know how Jamie become an expert at oral sex when he was a virgin weeks ago. When did Claire have time to teach him? He thought humans fornicated like barnyard animals. Never saw a horse do that.

[WatchrTina]

Personally, I'd like to know how Jamie become an expert at oral sex 

 

Ah, he's a canny lad ye ken.  He got his first introduction to oral on his wedding night and given that he is highly motivated at this point to make Claire happy, I have no problem believing that he:

1. got inventive and
2. paid attention to her reactions.

That's all it would take.

[CatMack]

Frankly Claire is starting to really bug me. For one thing she just can't seem to keep her mouth shut. It was one thing in the beginning but she should know better by now. For another thing she can't seem to do as she's told. Not that she should do whatever she's told "because she's a woman" but because she should realize by now it's a lot safer that way. I see another spanking in her future.

 

I mean, Jamie gets in to all kinds of trouble, and in fact in this very episode was told not to do something, did it, and wound up stabbed and temporarily exiled because of it.  Yet no one says Jamie should do what he's told because it's safer.  It may be safer for Claire to stay quite and never make waves, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing.  She disobeyed him to run to the stones because trying to save herself was the right thing for her to do.  She went to Geillis even when he asked her not to because she thought Geillis was asking for her help.  Plus, at that point, she actually had plausible deniability.  She's the local healer.  She received a note asking for help.  She just went to see what was wrong.  She wasn't arrested for being in Geillis's house.  The man who grabbed her said she had also been accused of witchcraft already, my guess would be because of things like giving Laoghaire a "love" potion and messing with the sick boy against father Bain's wishes.  Yeah, if she hadn't been in town it would have been harder for them to grab her, Collum probably, probably, wouldn't just let them take her from the castle, but that would only delay dealing with the problem and would make her a prisoner in the castle.  The only way she could have avoided trouble at all would have been not helping anyone, and then she wouldn't be Claire.  

[nara]

I think she does understand the danger, I think that's why she goes.  Claire is pretty immediately trying to get Geillis out the door once she arrives at her house.  It takes her no time at all to realize what's happening.  Whatever else she is, Geillis has been Claire's only friend, and she wants to save her.  I don't think it's ignorance about the risk, I think it's her making an active choice to help anyway because trying to help someone she cares about is worth it to her.  I think it's good to keep in mind that Claire was a battlefield nurse and is no stranger to danger (heh, sorry for the rhyme) and there's a difference between being stupidly ignorant of her situation, and understanding it but having instincts greater than self preservation.  That doesn't mean stupidity is out of the question, but not every instance of her doing something that puts herself at risk is gonna be because she doesn't know it's a risk.  Sometimes people judge risks to be worth it, whether an outside observer would agree or not. 

I think she understands the risk to Geillis to be known as a murderer and an adulterer--crimes in which Claire cannot be implicated.  That's why she asked her to run.  I don't think she quite understood the risk Geillis faced of being accused of witchcraft, in which Claire could be found guilty by association.

 

I do think you're right that Claire is more likely than most people to take risks because of her war experience and her natural instinct to stand up for what's right.

 

On a clothing note:  Is this the first time we've seen Jamie wearing pants and not a kilt?  Also, I kind like that Geillis's hood has a pointy end like a witch's hat.

The thing that I thought was more peculiar was Claire wandering around in the woods by herself looking for Geillis, just to ask her about the ill-wish.  That could really have waited until they next ran into one another.  And how, exactly did Claire slip out of the bed of a very attentive husband to go wandering about in the woods in the pre-dawn hours?  That made no sense to me.  

I assume she sexed Jamie into a deep sleep and snuck out!  ;)

[ganesh]

Something has been bugging me for the past two episodes. We've gotten no insight whatsover to how Claire feels about her very near-miss in getting back to the stones. I mean, the first eight episodes she did nothing but plot to get back to them, then she finally does only to be dragged away by British soldiers, and now it's like she's forgotten all about them. Does she still want to try to get back to her own time or has she just given up?

 

I haven't been excited about these 2 new episodes because Claire is basically a bit character. Secondly, because getting back to the stones was the whole point of the first part of this series. She was literally inches away from them when they got her. 

 

While I'm interested in the politics of the era, since it's basically a sword of Damocles with Culloden coming up, too many scenes away from Claire take away from the otherworldliness of the show. Similarly, I think it's a mistake to have anyone else do any VOs except Claire for the same reason. I mean, taking Claire out of picture, and we're watching a documentary about Scottish clan life.

 

Jaime could have accidentally killed Black Jack and unraveled the space time continuum ffs. To get basically nothing from Claire at how dire of a situation this is, seems to miss the point. 

[nara]

The conversation hint came when Dougal told Claire that he would take her to see Geillis in town.  Later Geillis cheekily tells Claire that there are mysteries abound.  So yeah, we've hints.  

 

Yes, when Dougal took Claire in town to replenish her "medicine cabinet," the underlying message was that Dougal and Geillis were also meeting or there was an exchange of messages.... Can't remember.

 

In episode 3 (The Way Out) Geillis gives Claire a "bill" for the necessaries that she's provided for the Gathering and asks Claire to deliver it to Dougal and only Dougal.  So yeah, that now looks like a hint at secret communications between Dougal and Geillis.

 

Okay, so I went back and looked at some scenes and here's what I found:

• When Claire meets Geillis, Geillis already knows who Claire is.  That could just be local gossip, but it could indicate that Dougal told her.
• When Jamie takes Laoghaire's beating, Geillis shows Claire a better way around the castle to get to Jamie and attend to his wounds.  This shows some real familiarity with the castle.
• Dougal offers to take Claire to Geillis's house to restock her medicines.  There is no indication that he's planning to meet Geillis, but he must have some way of knowing that Claire would be welcome at a Geillis's house that day.  (There is a line that could be interpreted as Dougal planning to go to Geillis's house, but I understood it to mean that he would escort Claire, not that he was going there anyway.) Perhaps he just assumed Geillis would be at home and would want to meet Claire, but that might be too presumptuous. More likely the two of them discussed it.
• Claire asks Geillis if she arranged the visit, and Geillis replies that there are some questions that can't be answered.
• During Claire's visit, there is no bill or indication that Geillis is sending a message to Dougal--at least, not in the show.

 

So my conclusion is that there have been hints, but they were pretty darn subtle IMHO.

[magdalene]

Both Claire and Jamie are as stubborn as mules and tend to do things that may endanger themselves.  They are well matched in that too, ha.

 

Geillis! I missed that character. The witchy dance was beautiful. So all this time Dougal was making not so covert sexual advances towards Claire he was having both a wife and a secret lover. What a card.

 

I was startled to see Simon Callow. I had thought the actor died a while ago. Which looking up his wiki obviously I thought wrong. Sorry, Mr.Callow!

Edited April 12, 2015 by magdalene

[ulkis]

On a clothing note:  Is this the first time we've seen Jamie wearing pants and not a kilt?  Also, I kind like that Geillis's hood has a pointy end like a witch's hat.

 

Yup. Another upside of the kilt: when he wears pants, it looks better than it normally would if he wore them all the time.

 

While I'm interested in the politics of the era, since it's basically a sword of Damocles with Culloden coming up, too many scenes away from Claire take away from the otherworldliness of the show. Similarly, I think it's a mistake to have anyone else do any VOs except Claire for the same reason. I mean, taking Claire out of picture, and we're watching a documentary about Scottish clan life.

 

Yeah. Although I can't say I'd mind watching that show, just that that's not how it started off. But seeing next week's preview I think they are getting back to Claire.

[ganesh]

I wouldn't mind that kind of show either. I've invested 8 hours in the premise of Claire being unstuck in time. The show even gave us the legend that it's happened before. I actually liked the cut scenes to 1940s because that's the 'real' part. 

 

In a sense, this is like Life on Mars (UK) for me. Sam was in pretty much every scene because they wanted to sell the idea that Sam's 1970s world only existed as he did. It's not exactly the same here, but similar. I'd rather actually *not* see Jamie politicking with the Duke, but have him go off to do that and focus on it affecting Claire.

 

The question of whether Claire will be grounded in this world now or still feeling out of place I think is the more interesting part of the show. I mean, she literally has knowledge of future events; the show actually showed her coming to that realization. The clan way of life is ending, and the more Claire becomes part of this world, the more dire this becomes for her. It's not like, 'well I'd better get used to this life and spend the remainder of my days making babies with a hot Scotsman.'

[basil]

Personally, I'd like to know how Jamie become an expert at oral sex

 

 

Ah, he's a canny lad ye ken.  He got his first introduction to oral on his wedding night and given that he is highly motivated at this point to make Claire happy, I have no problem believing that he:

got inventive and

paid attention to her reactions.

That's all it would take.

 

 

Claire is not shy about telling people what she wants. One doesn't need to attend Cunnilingus College to become an expert, if you have a will to please and a partner who tells you exactly what pleases her. JMO

 

I loved how she half heartedly tried to stop him so he could answer the door, and he nearly pleaded, "No", yanked her towards him, and finished what he started with renewed vigor.

 

Woof!

[bluebonnet]

Learning good oral technique isn't all that difficult, even on the first try.  Just sayin'.  Someone who has spent a lot of time training animals would have an advantage simply because s/he knows how to feel subtle changes in movement.  Relaxed muscle tells one story while clenched muscles tell another, for example.  Plus, there is breathing to listen for.  Also, we came in midway during this oral session and Claire could have easily said, "now, this is called the clitoris and it feels excellent when manipulated so get to it, Jamie boy."  

[Proclone]

I laughed that there were 2 references to Claire's English coldness in this episode--ironic for an episode that started with some clearly unprudish behavior!  BTW, Starz's idea of brief nudity and mine are very different.

 

LOL-Murtagh!  Surely you know better than to band on the door of a newly married couple in the early morning.  And the awkwardness of finding Claire in a clearly post-orgasmic state--loved it.  Perhaps Jamie needs to institute a sock on the door policy!

 

After seeing the "Brief Nudity" warning, I figured there was going to be no Jamie/Claire sexy times this episode.  I found myself laughing when that wound up being the opening scene.  I too wonder if that constitutes "brief" nudity in Starz mind, what exactly needs to happen to bump it up to just plain nudity.  Not that I'm complaining... 

[Infie]

Given that Starz did Spartacus, this *was* brief nudity.

[terrymct]

Duke of Sandringham-- I like Simon Callow in this role--he's quite fun.  

 

 

I didn't care for the character or the portrayal.  Sandringham is too much of a really bad gay stereotype, mincing and prissy.

[terrymct]

The question of whether Claire will be grounded in this world now or still feeling out of place I think is the more interesting part of the show. I mean, she literally has knowledge of future events; the show actually showed her coming to that realization. The clan way of life is ending, and the more Claire becomes part of this world, the more dire this becomes for her. It's not like, 'well I'd better get used to this life and spend the remainder of my days making babies with a hot Scotsman.'

 

Claire really has given up on getting back to her own time and her husband.   She's not at all upset over being so close to the stones that she could hear Frank.  She's not plotting how to get back there now that she knows the time linkage is still apparently in place.  Claire is all about boinking her new husband and ineptly finagling around in his life and the life of her one friend.   The whole time travel thing really has fallen to the side in favor of a schtupp-fest.

[ganesh]

How do you know? We haven't gotten a Claire internal monologue and she was barely in the episode. It seems like things have been happening fast, and Claire hasn't had time alone. 

 

It's a weird creative choice by the show. 

[iMonrey]

It is. The fact that Claire very nearly reached her goal at the end of the 8th episode hasn't been addressed at all - what a weird disconnect from the first half of the season.

 

Regarding whether she should listen to others or at least learn to keep her trap shut, my big objection was when she sent Jamie off to fetch her a drink and then mouthed off to the Duke of Sandringham, calling him a bastard for making Jamie his second. GEEZ, Claire, put a sock in it. I get that she's upset over the potential danger the Duke may have put Jamie in, but still - this is probably the one guy who can help clear Jamie's name. Learn some tact for Pete's sake.

[Glade]

I liked this episode and the return of Gellis as a character.  I found what Collum said to Dougal very disturbing; I had thought last week that Dougal impregnated Collum's wife and that's how he gave Collum an heir.  Not that they had a pact together that whoever Dougal impregnates, be it is his wife or any mistress, that Collum gets all the children?  It doesn't sound like a sustainable situation. 

[orza]

Colum said that Gellis's baby was Arthur Duncan's, just like Hamish was his child. Because they were the husbands in both cases and lawful fathers since they were not disputing paternity.

[WatchrTina]

My understanding is that under English law at this time (and I suspect Sottish law as well) a child born to a married couple was legitimate in the eyes of the law and the legal offspring/heir of the husband. Even if a husband claimed not to have slept with his wife during the time of conception, the child's rights as a legitimate heir could not be disputed. I've always suspected that that law existed to prevent he-said/she-said disputes with men falsely claiming that a disappointing child wasn't really theirs.  So much of of what you read in English literature centers around rules of inheritance (first born son getting everything, estates entailed away from the female line, etc.) it's not surprising to me that this aspect of common law emerged.  It also explains why there are all these stories of unpopular royal heirs having been smuggled into the castle in a basket or a warming tray and not really born to the queen/princess in question.  

 

So Hamish is Colum's son in the eye of the law -- born to his wife during their marriage.  And Geillis' baby will be recognized as Arthur's since it was clearly conceived while he was still living.  Even if Dougal married Geillis, he could only ever be recognized as step-father.  He could never publicly tell anyone the truth.

Edited April 13, 2015 by WatchrTina

[terrymct]

How do you know? We haven't gotten a Claire internal monologue and she was barely in the episode. It seems like things have been happening fast, and Claire hasn't had time alone. 

 

It's a weird creative choice by the show. 

 

She hasn't mentioned getting to Inverness to go to "France" in a long, long time.  Since before the wedding, actually.  I expected her to bring up leaving when she and Jamie were fighting, but she didn't.   Claire forgot about her marriage to Frank quickly enough, but this one with Jamie appears to be sticking a bit better.

I liked this episode and the return of Gellis as a character.  I found what Collum said to Dougal very disturbing; I had thought last week that Dougal impregnated Collum's wife and that's how he gave Collum an heir.  Not that they had a pact together that whoever Dougal impregnates, be it is his wife or any mistress, that Collum gets all the children?  It doesn't sound like a sustainable situation. 

 

My guess is that Dougal insuring Collum's line will end up having something to do with Collum's illness/condition.   Maybe Collum can't have children, but he didn't want his followers to know that.   Dougal seems to do what Collum can't.   That makes the rift between them related to the Jacobite fundraising a little strange.  They're very close brothers.  Maybe way too close.  Why wouldn't Dougal know how Collum feels and vice versa?

[Crackers]

Dougal fathered Colum's son with Letitia because Colum is sterile from the disease that crippled his body.

[absnow54]

She hasn't mentioned getting to Inverness to go to "France" in a long, long time.  Since before the wedding, actually.  I expected her to bring up leaving when she and Jamie were fighting, but she didn't.   Claire forgot about her marriage to Frank quickly enough, but this one with Jamie appears to be sticking a bit better.

In episode 8, the one after the wedding episode, Claire was faced with the choice between Frank and Jamie when she spotted the stones and she chose Frank. Unfortunately, the episode after that was told entirely through Jamie's POV, so we missed whatever conflicting emotions Claire had to settling into her domesticity with Jamie rather than going back into "MUST GET TO THE STONES!" mode. I know the show is trying to move into different storylines with Jamie's freedom, the political conflict, and now Claire/Gellis witch trial, but the unresolved loose end from Frank and Claire's story is distracting. 

[ganesh]

That's why I disagree with the creative choice to do the next episode from Jamie's pov. I know it's not a science fiction/time travel show, but the stones are legit. They spent time on the show telling us about the legend of the stones. Not having a reaction from Claire at all seems weird. 

 

I think the politics are important because it's classic tragedy; they're all going to die. Getting to know these people will have more of an impact. I think the show should have us getting to know them through Claire, however, and not outside her pov. The show made a point of having Claire realize Culloden on her own. I would think now that she's married and probably going to be a widow on the losing side, she'd be more anxious. 

[iMonrey]

 

That's why I disagree with the creative choice to do the next episode from Jamie's pov. I know it's not a science fiction/time travel show, but the stones are legit.

 

Well, it kind of is a science fiction/time travel show. It's a time travel show for sure, anyway. So to go from eight episodes of Claire trying to figure out a way to get back to her own time to dropping the subject altogether is baffling. 

 

Plus, for me it feels like a bit of a bait and switch. I realize the whole Claire and Jamie romance is a big draw, but still. Claire is less Marty McFly and more Lady Chatterly at this point. Frankly I found the oral sex scene at the top of this episode rather gratuitous and unnecessary.

[ganesh]

I meant it's not a Sci fi show like Claire isn't actually figuring out how they work and traveling through time. Or finding other people who have.

The timey whimey part is that something really devastating is coming up that only she knows about.

I suppose if Jamie gets the price off his head then she can consider just taking off with him to Boston or something.

[Nidratime]

Just looking at those scenes again near the end of the episode when Jamie warns Claire away from Geillis, they make a point of discussing how Colum might strike out against Geillis next and Claire looks very concerned -- she doesn't say anything to Jamie -- but she's concerned. I think, when she receives the note "from Geillis," she thinks maybe Colum *did* go after Geillis in some way and she feels she must respond to Geillis' note. That's why she "disobeyed" Jamie. Claire even brings up Colum's displeasure when she meets with Geillis.

[Ravenya003]

I also thought Dougal's reaction to his wife's death was odd--and frankly, not well acted.  I can accept that he feels guilty because he's left her at their estate and is carrying on with Geillis and fathered Hamish, but the nature of his grief seemed more like someone who was genuinely sad at her death.

 

 

I think the implication at the end (what with his little smile to Geillis as her husband lay dying) was that the show of grief over his wife was exactly that - an act. I thought at the time that the actor seemed to be hamming it up, and later realized this was exactly the point. Geillis does the same thing when she suddenly comes across all grief-stricken and throws herself down on her husband, and Colum/Claire were the only two that found their performances at all suspect.

[nara]

I think the implication at the end (what with his little smile to Geillis as her husband lay dying) was that the show of grief over his wife was exactly that - an act. I thought at the time that the actor seemed to be hamming it up, and later realized this was exactly the point. Geillis does the same thing when she suddenly comes across all grief-stricken and throws herself down on her husband, and Colum/Claire were the only two that found their performances at all suspect.

You're absolutely right, but isn't it strange that the people who know him well seem genuinely worried about his behavior--enough so to call Claire to help?

[Ravenya003]

You're absolutely right, but isn't it strange that the people who know him well seem genuinely worried about his behavior--enough so to call Claire to help?

 

Perhaps because it was the fact that his behaviour WAS so out of character (and OTT) that had them so worried. Either way, Colum clearly wasn't sold by the performance. (That was my take at least).

[MaryMitch]

Well, we have seen that Dougal does lose some of his dignity when he's had too much to drink; remember him attacking Claire? He was dealing with grief AND guilt. I just I wish we had met his wife before this happened so we could have a clue at their relationship.

 

Actually if this was in modern time I would think he was having an Ambien reaction; I have a family member who did something similar.

[John Potts]

Claire, please, learn some f***ing tact. When you're blackmailing somebody, you DON'T do it where anyone else can hear. Secondly, when somebody can get your husband pardoned (and your worst enemy banished) you learn to do what thousands of people have done across the centuries: you suck up your desire to shout at them and say, "Thank you, Your Grace," no matter how peeved you may be.

Another person who could use some tact is Geillis. Why on Earth would you blurt out that you're glad  Dougal's wife "fortunately" died, that you're pregnant with Dougal's child and that you could be together should anything unfortunate happen to your husband. And Oh Look - he's just dropped dead. Claire may be your friend, but she can put your head in the noose if she talks.

Also, as the Witchcraft Act was repealed in 1733, there is no way Claire could be arrested for it (there may be other things they could get her on, I'm sure - and Geillis is almost certainly a murderer). If they wanted a witchcraft trial AND a Jacobite rising, why not set the story around the 1715 Rising? It may be truthful to the Books (I guess) but it doesn't chime with history (though the outcome of the 1715 Uprising was less catastrophic for the Clans).

On ‎18‎/‎04‎/‎2015 at 9:53 AM, Ravenya003 said:

I think the implication at the end (what with his little smile to Geillis as her husband lay dying) was that the show of grief over his wife was exactly that - an act. I thought at the time that the actor seemed to be hamming it up, and later realized this was exactly the point.

 Really? I assumed that Geillis had poisoned them both and that Dougal's reaction was genuine. But YMMV. And I was glad Colum wasn't stupid either and acted immediately to separate the pair. Can't have his War Chief be suspected of murdering his mistress' husband.

Did they fail to load the pistols in the duel? That whole duel scene seemed artificial, particularly the sudden attack on Jamie, which suggests the Duke saw Jamie as a problem and was adopting Stalin's philosophy of "No man - no problem". Glad he DID follow through (presumably) on the deal, though, even if I find it hard to believe it will work (for narrative reasons). I wonder WHY he is protecting Black Jack, unless it's just to provide cover for his true sympathies (or he's trying to play both sides).

[guiser]

On 12/04/2015 at 1:10 PM, nara said:

I enjoyed the extra time with Geillis Duncan.  I had been missing her character.  The flashback/forward to the ladies at Craigh Na Dun was well done.  I would not have made the connection myself.  Now we know that Geillis practices witchcraft...

 

Collum -- Is it me, or is he getting more and more detached from reality?  He seems to think that no one can do anything without his leave, and seems to be alienating himself from all his supporters.  I'm curious about the long-term impact of his actions to his lairdship. Or does he know his days are numbered and is trying desperately to hang on to any power that he has?   I do think it was smart to keep Claire a hostage to Jamie's good behavior.

I  love Gellis' pixie coat! :D  And Gellis is satisfyingly witchy! However, I do find the actress' odd accent rather off-putting and for me it detracts from her performance.  In addition, I was taken aback when Gellis talked about Dougal's "slag of a wife, Maura"! That doesn't sound very Scottish and I thought Dougal's wife was meant to be homely! :D

As far as Collum's behaviour towards Dougal is concerned, would Dougal really want to remove his support from Collum when push came to shove?  And potentially threaten his own son's prospects as clan chief?  Strong-arm Collum into supporting the Jacobites, yes, but that is a different thing.

On 08/09/2017 at 10:56 AM, John Potts said:

Also, as the Witchcraft Act was repealed in 1733, there is no way Claire could be arrested for it (there may be other things they could get her on, I'm sure - and Geillis is almost certainly a murderer). If they wanted a witchcraft trial AND a Jacobite rising, why not set the story around the 1715 Rising? It may be truthful to the Books (I guess) but it doesn't chime with history (though the outcome of the 1715 Uprising was less catastrophic for the Clans).

 

I read that Ms Gabaldon knew that the Witchcraft Act had been repealed - so poetic license there! I'm sure you are right that Claire shouldn't really have been arrested. Treating people with herbs would not have constituted witchcraft. Or were they going to arrest all apothecaries? Or anyone with a copy of Culpepper's Herbal? :D

Alas, I don't think the 1715 is sufficiently well-known to interest most people. Pretty fascinating to read about though. I had no idea until recently that it was such a massive rebellion. Much bigger than the '45. It also exposes how different Scottish society was to English society. There seemed to have been a massive social gulf between pro-govt Whigs and Jacobitish Tories in England in a way that there wasn't in Scotland. So, after the 1715 the Scottish rebels (unlike the English rebels) were shielded from the worst consequences of their actions by the efforts of their pro-government Whig relatives. Something the government made sure didn't happen after the '45 :(

And that reminds me. I was really tickled when Ned Gowan said that Jamie should ultimately aim to take his case to the President of the Court of Session - the top legal bod in Scotland. Which was at this time none other than Duncan Forbes of Culloden (not a coincidence) - top government man-on-the-spot in Scotland and instrumental in persuading a lot of the great and good not to come out for the Jacobites! He had a  good reputation for probity though, so....XD

 

 

[Camera One]

I signed on to the show both for the time travel and the historical fiction, and now, it's pretty much 100% the latter, which makes me a little less interested.  I liked parts of the episode, but it's also becoming very soap-opera-ish, what with jealous ex-girlfriends and murdering spouses.  Some of the characters are acting in ways which are frustrating to watch.  Claire slapping the jealous ex, for example, instead of Jaime talking to her about the ill-will figure.  Dougal announcing that Geillus is pregnant with his baby and immediately wanting to be with her, and Colum catching their obvious stare across the room?  

I don't understand the duel.  After shooting at each other and both missing, they now forgive the other?  Jaime getting involved in their unnecessary brawl was also annoying to watch and unnecessary drama.

This was the first episode where I paused it several times part-way and came back to it later.  I'll keep on, but if it's all historical fiction, the show is a bit too depressing to be enjoyable.  I really don't see any "hope" for Claire or Jaime given the tense political situation, the constant violent threats and now contrived life-threatening drama at every turn.

[gingerella]

Okay, the first thing I thought was, 'man, Jaime is a fast learner!' I suppose Claire's been teaching him the ways of love and all but damn, he catches on fast. That said, I get it, they are passionate and deeply in love, I don't need to see sex scenes every episode though. Overall I didn't care for this episode because I'm not seeing where it's going. Yes I get that Jamie, Ned and Claire are all trying to get the Duke to clear Jaime's name BUT, do I really think the Duke will fulfill his side of the bargain? I do not. That seems obvious from miles away. The duel was silly, a lame device to get Jaime injured again? We've seen that enough so far, enough with the injuries and sex scenes, and let us advance the plot lines please.

Things that don't make sense:

Claire traipsing through the forest in the middle of the night. Seriously? Like she'd be able to find her way and how could she sneak off from Jaime?

Dougal suddenly proclaiming his love and devotion to Geillis. What the actual fuck?!? Hokey as hell and totally out of character for Dougal given he's hit on Claire twice so far.

The duel, silly nonsense. I thought perhaps he'd make Jaime and BJR duel, but this was even weirder.

The moment Jaime leaves, Claire does exactly what he asked her not to. Clearly the heartbreaking 'forgiveness' exchange at the rive means little now?

Leery claiming she and Jaime are meant to be forever and belong to each other. No bitch, that aint how shit works. I will be okay with something happening to her for good to make her disappear. And speaking of which, Mrs. Fitz seems to support the J&C marriage so how can she not know how Leery feels? Why wouldn't Claire have a word with Mrs. Fitz and ask for her help?

Leery getting Claire arrested. Leery is the granddaughter of the kitchen maid of Leoch, she's not the granddaughter of the Laird FFS. But Show acts like she has all this power. She has no job that we know of, so where does she get money to buy an ill wish, let along money for transport to/from the village? And now she's seemingly arranged a bust and arrest of Claire and her only friend (latter for murder so warranted), really? A young girl who seems to be of lower standing? Seems unrealistic.

Things that did make sense:

Everyone seems to know that the J&C marriage is a love marriage now, hence Colum making Claire stay behind at Leoch so that Jaime can babysit Dougal without distraction. I wondered before this, whether anyone other than Murtagh knew they were really in love.

Colum being fed up by being shown up by Dougal. This cant end well for one of them.

As weird as the Tree Baby scene was, what Jaime said about the parents feeling better/comfort that the Fairies took their baby, that exchange took a scene that was so weird and put it back into local context. Again, Jaime is telling Claire, 'this place is DIFFERENT than where you come from and these folks BELIEVE in this shit, so you need to at least let them practice their beliefs, even if you don't agree with them." But Claire is Claire so, yanno...

Like I said, this is the first episode I did not care for, and I think it's because it asked me to believe to many things that don't make sense, at least not right now. And that says alot since we're talking about a time traveler show.

[Anothermi]

An opening to show that everything we think of as modernday sex has been known of and done for centuries. I suppose it is worthwhile to remind viewers that we didn't invent it all... But enough already!

The revelation (for me) was that BJR's “protector in high places” was homosexual—from which I infer that BJR was also—or that he paid in kind for his political protection! I had wondered about that and I think we gotten a definitive answer. 

I was very uncomfortable when Ned Gowan's plan was to get BJR bannished in disgrace from Scottland and wishing him—as a punishment—onto the West Indies! As if the enslaved people there needed another sadist! Not that any of the Scots would have known about that. Ned was talking about the climate. But we viewers know how enslaved people were treated as if they were animals... and worse. Even though it was a passing comment, it had a greater impact on me than I think it was supposed to. 

Ahem.

I have to apologize to my co-Unsullied posters. I referenced Leery's statment that Jamie “was and is mine” in my post in the previous episode. I'd watched them back to back and predictably, I mixed up what happened when. I am so sorry. Argh!

However, it WAS interesting that Leery's viewpoint was that Jamie was “trapped in a loveless marriage, forced to share his bed with a cold, English bitch.” and that “He must have to get himself swine drunk of a night before he can stand to plow yer field.” 

Claire's response? <<Resounding slap.>> followed by an apology. She does have compassion for the women of this time. Much good that it will do her with Leery. 

That whole exchange sends Claire off to find Geillis. Interesting that Claire gave Leery a dried cow dung potion for Leery to lure Jamie to her, and Geillis sold her the ill wish to get rid of Claire. They really need to communicate more. NOT.

But Claire's winning points from me this episode because she tried to be understanding of Leery and she offered advise to the poor servant stuck with Geillis' husband's bowel issues before she went off to find Geillis. 

The juxtaposition of the Episode 1 druid dance and Geillis' dance was well done. The latter being more wild and perhaps more deeply felt. And Claire watched translating what she knew of the earlier one to what she was seeing Geillis do. It was familiar, but not quite the same. Geillis is pregnant. And we learn it was Dougal... again. I started thinking it was a side-business of his—until she started talking about him as the love of her life. And he's MARRIED! Who would have guessed? Not me. And from their conversation on the way back, I did see that Claire saw Geillis as her friend. Her only real friend. 

The baby in the forest/ changeling story: I don't know if that issue will come up again, but I learned a lot more than I'd known before about what a changeling is. Thank you Jamie for providing a credible reason for people believing in it. ”For the parents of that child, it might comfort them a bit to think it's the changeling that died, to think of their own child healthy and well, living forever with the fairies.”
That's enough value for me to be satisfied even it the issue never comes up again. 

Dougal “mourning” his wife and the Duke Sandringham's “dual” felt like comic relief to me. Dougal showed his true colours afterwards when Colum banishes him to his wife's funeral. The “mourning” was more of a performance, but Colum's not fooled and when Geillis' husband dies he understands that. 

However, the best line goes to Jamie after the Dukes dual. As Claire is tending to his “just a scratch”:

I expected noisier displeasure... 

But quiet anger can be very effective. 😄

But the show gives Leery the last laugh. Claire's protector is away so Leery sets her up for the charge of witchcraft. Once again Claire doesn't listen to Jamie's advice and...Cliff Hanger!

Edited March 22, 2021 by Anothermi
spelling etc

[Camera One]

I forgot how despicable Leery was.  I know that's not how she spells her name but I don't care about respecting her name.

I didn't understand Geillis's explanation of the changeling but Jaime's explanation made the concept make more sense.  I think Geillis said leave them out overnight and the fairies will return the child they've stolen?

Despite Geillis poisoning her husband, it's really hard not to like her, maybe because she is Claire's friend.

[gingerella]

21 hours ago, Anothermi said:

The revelation (for me) was that BJR's “protector in high places” was homosexual—from which I infer that BJR was also—or that he paid in kind for his political protection! I had wondered about that and I think we gotten a definitive answer. 

The juxtaposition of the Episode 1 druid dance and Geillis' dance was well done. The latter being more wild and perhaps more deeply felt. And Claire watched translating what she knew of the earlier one to what she was seeing Geillis do. It was familiar, but not quite the same.

Dougal “mourning” his wife and the Duke Sandringham's “dual” felt like comic relief

However, the best line goes to Jamie after the Dukes dual. As Claire is tending to his “just a scratch”:

I expected noisier displeasure... 

But quiet anger can be very effective. 😄

 

@Anothermi, what you said about the Duke and BJR resonated with me while watching, but I had forgotten about it when I was writing my post. I thought the same thing, and perhaps BJR either loathes himself and that is why is takes out his self loathing on others by torturing them? It wouldn't excuse anything about him, and I look forward to his demise, but maaaaybe this is why he's so damaged? Or he was forced to service the Duke and that isnwhy is hates himself?

Thanks for reminding me of yet another dual scene, one that we've seen another version of before. I felt like the version Claire and Frank secretly watch in 1943 is a recreation of the original..it has all the parts - the dance movements, the singing (wasn't there some singing or chanting in E01?), the costumes and lanterns. BUT, there was one thing missing, the MAGIC was not in the recreation! In Geillis' version you felt it was a little creepy, a little sinister, it was the magic. She was the real deal, as opposed to the recreation version. 

I was disappointed that we didn't get to meet Dougals wife. I assumed him unmarried, which really would not make much sense in those days. The fact that Geillis may have poisoned her and he may be okay with that dies.chsnge how I view him though. 

I also cracked up at the 'quiet anger can be effective comment. Jaime is a funny one!

19 hours ago, Camera One said:

I forgot how despicable Leery was.  I know that's not how she spells her name but I don't care about respecting her name.

I call her Leery for the same reason. She doesn't deserve my respect because she's a very shady bitch.

Edited March 18, 2021 by gingerella

[SassAndSnacks]

7 hours ago, gingerella said:

She doesn't deserve my respect because she's a very shady bitch.

😁 YES!!!!!

[gingerella]

6 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

😁 YES!!!!!

This brings up some issues I'm having with continuity and reality, the latter I know is dicey given this is a show revolving around time travel but here are my issues:

1. Leery says to Claire early on that she knows Jaime is in love with someone else. She doesn't say it's Claire but I assumed that is what she meant, even if Claire's not yet aware of his feelings. So why does she suddenly say he's hers and she's his? It makes no sense in terms of the story and dialogue we've already been shown. And why wouldn't Jaime tell her to back off, or tell Mrs. Fitz to have a word with her so she's less embarrassed about it.

2. After Jaime rescues Claire from Ft. William they jump into the river and then they're riding along the river and their clothes look perfectly dry. Jamie's said it'll be Yule when they get back to Leoch, so it must be December. How are they not sick as dogs wearing wet clothes after jumping into icy Scottish waters that time of year?!?

3. Leticia says its been a long time since there was a wedding in the castle, so I assumed they'd have a proper castle wedding - or feast at least - but that never happened.

4. Claire goes to the Stones and sees her plaid wrap laying on the ground where she left it when she arrives, and she STILL doesn't pick it up! I want to know if it's Fraser tartan because it looks like it!

5.  And last but not least, Id like to see some sort of bathing, just because...hygiene...