Kim Wexler: She Has a Two-Year Plan

[SnarkAttack]

I love Kim's voice.  A woman's voice, unlike all the weak little girl voices I hear all over the radio these days.  Ick.

[knaankos]

3 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

I love Kim's voice.  A woman's voice, unlike all the weak little girl voices I hear all over the radio these days.  Ick.

Huh

[Bryce Lynch]

11 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

I love Kim's voice.  A woman's voice, unlike all the weak little girl voices I hear all over the radio these days.  Ick.

Kim's voice used to really irritate me, but I have gotten used to it.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I do wonder about Kim though.  I mean, I find it rather amusing and odd, that she sits people watching and fantasizing about money schemes on strangers.  Not that she wants to do it, but, that she participates.  I just find that odd.  Something about Jimmy feeds her.  She seems to be turned off, but, not really......

[Atlanta]

21 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Kim is from a little town in Kansas, near the Nebraska border.  I am not sure where she went to school.  

For some reason, I remember her mentioning graduating from UNM school of law (maybe it was back in S1). Maybe she got her undergrad in Kansas and headed to law school at UNM?

[Ohwell]

That pony tail really got to me last night.  Ugh.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Ohwell

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, Atlanta said:

For some reason, I remember her mentioning graduating from UNM school of law (maybe it was back in S1). Maybe she got her undergrad in Kansas and headed to law school at UNM?

The UNM law degree sound familiar to me as well.  I wonder if she got her undergrad degree while working in the mailroom at HHM as well. People with college degrees normally don't work in the mail room.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The UNM law degree sound familiar to me as well.  I wonder if she got her undergrad degree while working in the mailroom at HHM as well. People with college degrees normally don't work in the mail room.

She could have, or some schools don't require a bachelor's degree, though I don't know if UNM is one of them. 

[Eyes High]

20 hours ago, Ohwell said:

That pony tail really got to me last night.  Ugh.

I cannot believe that a lawyer like Kim, who normally takes a good deal of care with her appearance in order to look like a conservative, sober, dignified, and mature professional, would wear a ponytail. Maybe if she were 15 years younger and just starting out. (Maybe.) At her age and level of experience, though? No way.

It's a little thing, I know, but this show is usually so good with the little things.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Eyes High

[Hanahope]

Yeah, I'm sortof surprised she doesn't wear it in a bun, or maybe a french braid.

So Kim obviously can afford some extra help, why doesn't she use Francesca to assist with the MV load, or hire a part-time legal assistant/para-legal?

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Yeah, I'm sortof surprised she doesn't wear it in a bun, or maybe a french braid.

So Kim obviously can afford some extra help, why doesn't she use Francesca to assist with the MV load, or hire a part-time legal assistant/para-legal?

Omar! :)

Mike has (or will have) some experience pretending to be a paralegal.

Actually, it would be fun if Kim brought on Dan Wachsberger (Mike's bag man and attorney) as an associate and Jimmy gets jealous.  Saul had a low opinion of him and that could explain why.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So Kim obviously can afford some extra help, why doesn't she use Francesca to assist with the MV load, or hire a part-time legal assistant/para-legal?

Why doesn't she hire Ernie?  Whatever happened to him?

[JudyObscure]

Quote

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I cannot believe that a lawyer like Kim, who normally takes a good deal of care with her appearance in order to look like a conservative, sober, dignified, and mature professional, would wear a ponytail.

I think the conservative suit, shoes and makeup are Kim.  The ponytail is Giselle.

[qtpye]

6 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I think the conservative suit, shoes and makeup are Kim.  The ponytail is Giselle

Or Cindy Brady.

[Ohwell]

10 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I think the conservative suit, shoes and makeup are Kim.  The ponytail is Giselle.

Well Giselle needs to take a seat when Kim is being an attorney.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

21 hours ago, Ohwell said:

On 6/7/2017 at 2:30 PM, Hanahope said:

So Kim obviously can afford some extra help, why doesn't she use Francesca to assist with the MV load, or hire a part-time legal assistant/para-legal?

Why doesn't she hire Ernie?  Whatever happened to him?

Ernie isn't a paralegal; he worked in the mail room.  Kim needs someone with her excruciating level of attention to detail, someone whose scrutiny she completely trusts, or she will feel the need to review everything.  Neither Francesca nor Ernie have that kind of training, and I don't think that Jimmy would be right for the job either, even if he were legally allowed to assist her.  She needs someone who has spent a lot of time on doc review!

Edited June 8, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Ernie isn't a paralegal; he worked in the mail room. 

Oops.  I thought he was a paralegal.

[scenario]

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Ernie isn't a paralegal; he worked in the mail room.  Kim needs someone with her excruciating level of attention to detail, someone whose scrutiny she completely trusts, or she will feel the need to review everything.  Neither Francesca nor Ernie have that kind of training, and I don't think that Jimmy would be right for the job either, even if he were legally allowed to assist her.  She needs someone who has spent a lot of time on doc review!

She should get someone on a temporary contract. Hired for three months. If things aren't going well, let the contract expire. If things are going well, extend the contract if the temp worker wants to stay. She isn't in a situation where she has to fire someone that way. 

[Atlanta]

On 6/8/2017 at 3:29 PM, Ohwell said:

Oops.  I thought he was a paralegal.

I assumed he was a law student working his way through school like Kim did.

[Jextella]

18 hours ago, Atlanta said:

I assumed he was a law student working his way through school like Kim did.

That's kinda what I thought.

I like both Ernesto and Omar and would love for both to come back in some way.  Since Ernesto got fired, I'd go with him first.  Especially since he is a victim in the Jimmy vs. Chuck feud.   First of more to come I suspect.

Unrelated.....I watched a clip of Gene (Cinnabon Saul) watching the video of his Saul Goodman commercials.  Interesting that in his shoebox of goodies, there were no pictures of anything current - at least that we could see.  None of Kim, none of Chuck (at least in present day).   The videos trigger an emotional response that seems like one of extreme sadness of a life/livlihood lost.

There wasn't any reference to sadness over the loss of Chuck or Kim.....just the loss of Saul Goodman.

Could be there is more to see in that moment or it could forebode what is to come of Jimmy's relationships with Kim and Chuck.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 6/7/2017 at 0:38 PM, Eyes High said:

I cannot believe that a lawyer like Kim, who normally takes a good deal of care with her appearance in order to look like a conservative, sober, dignified, and mature professional, would wear a ponytail. Maybe if she were 15 years younger and just starting out. (Maybe.) At her age and level of experience, though? No way.

It's a little thing, I know, but this show is usually so good with the little things.

Maybe there will be a dramatic development which results in her cutting it off.

[Jextella]

I like Kim's pony!  Although odds are it wouldn't fly in big law firms of today.

[ShadowFacts]

Her ponytail may just be pragmatic because she is so pressed for time.  With her schedule she just can't fuss too much.  Or she just likes it.  My hair's been the same for years because it's easy and I like it, so I don't conform to more 'current' styles. 

[rue721]

Ponytails are fine in general -- but Kim's curled and hairsprayed pony in particular just kills me. IMHO it looks ridiculous. I don't need it to be more fashionable, just not so uberpolished-yet-childlike.

I like the idea of a bun or a french braid or maybe just twisted and put up in a barrette.

It's strange to me because this show puts a lot of effort into its aesthetics, so I assume that the weird pony is a character choice that they're purposefully making for Kim -- but it just seems so bizarre/unrealistic that I can't really accept it. *shrug*

[DangerousMinds]

Yeah, it's not thr ponytail per we that annoys me, but the silly curl and hairspray.

[PeterPirate]

Looking at it from a different perspective, how many female lawyers on TV have had hair as long as Kim's?  The only one I can think of is Joyce Davenport in Hill Street Blues.  Is there a better way for a woman with long hair to go about the job?

 

ETA: Ellenor Frutt in The Practice also had long hair. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Tatum]

54 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Looking at it from a different perspective, how many female lawyers on TV have had hair as long as Kim's?  The only one I can think of is Joyce Davenport in Hill Street Blues.  Is there a better way for a woman with long hair to go about the job?

I think the women from Ally McBeal and The Practice all had long hair and just generally wore it down. If they did pull it back, I suppose it was probably in some kind of elaborate up-do.

[PeterPirate]

35 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I think the women from Ally McBeal and The Practice all had long hair and just generally wore it down. If they did pull it back, I suppose it was probably in some kind of elaborate up-do.

Heh, I  was editing my post to include The Practice as your were posting. Although I think the other female lead wore her hair short.

[rue721]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Is there a better way for a woman with long hair to go about the job?

Yes, as detailed above. French braid, bun, twisted and put up in a barrette, down...even just a less bizarre ponytail!

I don't know about other people who find Kim's hairstyle weird, but I myself am a professional woman with hair around her length (a little longer than shoulder length). There are lots of options for her hair. She just chooses a really weird one for some reason! 

I mean, Skyler was also a professional with hair Kim's length and yet she didn't look unrealistically funky going to work.

I don't know what they're going for with Kim's curled-and-sprayed pony -- I assume it's meant to say something about her as a character or maybe is meant to make the actress look "young" or "girlish" or something...but I dunno. For me personally, it's not working. Especially in light of how Kim chooses to present herself otherwise. YMMV.

[Jextella]

I find it amusing that we've chimed in for a page and a half on Kim Wexler's ponytail.

Agree that the curly cue on the end needs to go, but otherwise I'm fine with the ponytail.  If I recall correctly, her hair was longer and straighter in Seasons 1 and 2.  The curl at the end came later on.  I'm guessing there was some sort of wardrobe/character development reason for it but it would be beyond me as to what that might be.

All I can come up with is that with hair down, the actress is far more "sexy" for lack of a better word - and far too informal for a serious attorney.  Maybe even a pony tail with straight hair didn't harden her look enough for the role of a serious corporate attorney.  Or some such thing.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Jextella

[Tatum]

17 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Yes, as detailed above. French braid, bun, twisted and put up in a barrette, down...even just a less bizarre ponytail!

I don't know about other people who find Kim's hairstyle weird, but I myself am a professional woman with hair around her length (a little longer than shoulder length). There are lots of options for her hair. She just chooses a really weird one for some reason! 

I mean, Skyler was also a professional with hair Kim's length and yet she didn't look unrealistically funky going to work.

I don't know what they're going for with Kim's curled-and-sprayed pony -- I assume it's meant to say something about her as a character or maybe is meant to make the actress look "young" or "girlish" or something...but I dunno. For me personally, it's not working. Especially in light of how Kim chooses to present herself otherwise. YMMV.

I think ponytails are cute and convenient, but I agree, kind of unprofessional. If you don't like wearing your hair down (I don't), I agree a bun or a braid would be better. I wear ponytails to work every day, but I don't see clients face to face much and the dress code is rather relaxed in my office. My ponytails though tend to be pretty messy and haphazard- if I was going to go to the trouble of spraying and curling I'd probably just pick a more professional updo than a ponytail. And given how well groomed and conservative Kim is with her wardrobe and jewelry, that hairstyle is a strange choice.

 

I think Kim is supposed to be about 10 years younger than the age of the actress- so maybe they are trying to make her look younger, but still maintain her rather perfectionist traits with regards to her hair?

Edited June 12, 2017 by Tatum

[Eyes High]

22 hours ago, Tatum said:

And given how well groomed and conservative Kim is with her wardrobe and jewelry, that hairstyle is a strange choice.

Yes, exactly. 

Even Patrick Fabian (Howard) can't resist a little ponytail snark at Kim's expense.

[ByTor]

She looks so pretty with her hair down!  Maybe if she insists on a curled/sprayed ponytail it would look less juvenile if it were a nape of the neck low ponytail as opposed to such a high one.

[Atlanta]

A sleek low pony would be more professional. Rhea is a beautiful woman, but they do a good job of trying to 'plain' her up.

[Bryce Lynch]

I think we might need a separate thread to discuss Kim's ponytail.  :)

I am usually the last person to call "sexism", but I find it fascinating how much criticism the character gets over her hairstyle.  I don't see the male characters getting similar scrutiny.  

[Ohwell]

Because they aren't wearing long, curly, unprofessional-looking ponytails.  

Although if it'll make you feel any better, Jimmy has a helluva cowlick.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think we might need a separate thread to discuss Kim's ponytail.  :)

I am usually the last person to call "sexism", but I find it fascinating how much criticism the character gets over her hairstyle.  I don't see the male characters getting similar scrutiny.  

If the male characters had hairstyles that were incongruous with what we knew of the character, I assure you that they would.

Good TV shows use characters' appearances--clothing, hairstyles, accessories, etc.--to tell a story about the character. Kim's restrained wardrobe and jewelry choices tell the story of a sober, mature professional trained at a heavy-hitting, conservative law firm who's careful to appear appropriately and maturely styled. A ponytail styled into a Shirley Temple curlicue is completely at odds with the image that we have of Kim, both that she otherwise presents and that we would expect of someone in her position. A number of posters are likely drawing on their own experience working with conservative clients or in conservative office environments when they take issue with the ponytail.

The ponytail sticks out. It doesn't fit with how Kim otherwise presents herself, or how a woman in Kim's position would present herself. Either it's a lack of attention to detail on the part of a show which is usually very good at the details, or there's a character reason for the ponytail. One intriguing possibility put forward by @JudyObscure is that the ponytail represents Kim's "Giselle" side. Either way, though, the ponytail stands out, which is worthy of comment in my opinion.

 

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Because they aren't wearing long, curly, unprofessional-looking ponytails.  

Exactly.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Because they aren't wearing long, curly, unprofessional-looking ponytails.  

Although if it'll make you feel any better, Jimmy has a helluva cowlick.

My point is that it seems like there is a lot more concern about what is and is not "professional" when it comes to a woman's hair.  It is not like she has green spiked hair or a shaved head or something.  It baffles me that a ponytail would be seen as so grossly unprofessional. 

[ByTor]

That's because the men (I'm thinking Jimmy, Chuck, Howard), unlike Kim, do have professional looking hair.  I'm sure if Jimmy started sporting a curlicue ponytail he'd be called out for looking unprofessional as well.

[Tatum]

31 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

My point is that it seems like there is a lot more concern about what is and is not "professional" when it comes to a woman's hair.  It is not like she has green spiked hair or a shaved head or something.  It baffles me that a ponytail would be seen as so grossly unprofessional. 

I think the issue is mostly not that the ponytail itself is so unprofessional (I mean, not compared to green spiked hair, anyways) but seems so intentionally at odds with the characterization of Kim that has been conveyed so far. On a normal show, I'd just peg it as the hairstylists are trying to make her look younger (which still could be the case). On a show like BCS, where everything is so deliberate, and the smallest detail is considered, I think people are wondering if there is a deeper meaning to this curlicued ponytail. 

[Atlanta]

Agree, Tatum. There are no accidents on this show. 

[WicketyWack]

8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think we might need a separate thread to discuss Kim's ponytail.  :)

I am usually the last person to call "sexism", but I find it fascinating how much criticism the character gets over her hairstyle.  I don't see the male characters getting similar scrutiny.  

If the character of Howard — professional, well groomed, conservative, handsome Howard — also sported a mullet or a spiky shag, we'd all be talking I think.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, WicketyWack said:

If the character of Howard — professional, well groomed, conservative, handsome Howard — also sported a mullet or a spiky shag, we'd all be talking I think.

Yes, but I don't think Kim's ponytail is anything like a spiky shag or a mullet.  It is a rather ordinary, non distracting hairstyle. 

Speaking of Howard, I find his "ringlets", as Jimmy described them when he was trying to look like him for the billboard, to be closer to "unprofessional" than Kim's ponytail.  If I were a prospective client, I might wonder why this guy was trying so hard to look like a male model and be concerned that he might spend more time styling his hair than working on my cases.  He gets close to the border of looking like a "mimbo" but probably doesn't quite cross it.  The female equivalent would be a woman lawyer who wears her hair and makeup in a manner that looks like more like she it going out on the town ,than into a courtroom or to the office to spend hours researching a case.  

Again I don't mean to single anyone out, but I making an observation about how our society judges women and men differently with regards to hair.  Personally, I don't care much at all what my lawyer's hair looks like.  I just want a great lawyer.  

14 hours ago, Tatum said:

I think the issue is mostly not that the ponytail itself is so unprofessional (I mean, not compared to green spiked hair, anyways) but seems so intentionally at odds with the characterization of Kim that has been conveyed so far. On a normal show, I'd just peg it as the hairstylists are trying to make her look younger (which still could be the case). On a show like BCS, where everything is so deliberate, and the smallest detail is considered, I think people are wondering if there is a deeper meaning to this curlicued ponytail. 

I guess I just don't get what is so unprofessional about her ponytail  Until it was mentioned here, I never noticed Kim's hair in a positive or negative way.  Maybe it would be considered "unprofessional" in the legal world, but if it is, that seems rather arbitrary to me. 

[Bryce Lynch]

https://audioboom.com/posts/6013699-309-better-call-saul-insider?t=0

Rhea and the crew addressed the great ponytail controversy on the podcast this week. :)  She made the shocking revelation that only 85% of the ponytail is her real hair. :)

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes, but I don't think Kim's ponytail is anything like a spiky shag or a mullet.  It is a rather ordinary, non distracting hairstyle. 

Speaking of Howard, I find his "ringlets", as Jimmy described them when he was trying to look like him for the billboard, to be closer to "unprofessional" than Kim's ponytail.  If I were a prospective client, I might wonder why this guy was trying so hard to look like a male model and be concerned that he might spend more time styling his hair than working on my cases.  

Impeccable grooming and polish is part of the "package" expected of both male and female lawyers, particularly senior lawyers, who work at firms like HHM. It goes along with the beautiful offices, the ridiculous paintings, and all the other accoutrements of an expensive law firm catering to moneyed clients. It's all luxury branding. Or, as Proposition Joe on The Wire put it when he was mocked for wearing a suit in summer heat, "Look the part, be the part, motherfucker." Most senior lawyers of Howard's type dress a bit more conservatively than Howard (and frankly I think Howard's ubiquitous blue shirts with white collars would raise a few eyebrows), but they are expected to be immaculate, and they are: tailored Italian suits in dark colours, carefully coordinated shirts and ties of the highest quality, perfect hair (preferably with no facial hair), etc.  If you want to see lawyers less expensively styled or with a funkier, more individual personal style, you'll find them in spades at smaller, less conservative firms or hanging out their own shingle, but you won't find them at firms like HHM. 

 

Quote

Again I don't mean to single anyone out, but I making an observation about how our society judges women and men differently with regards to hair.  Personally, I don't care much at all what my lawyer's hair looks like. 

You may not, but a heavy-hitting conservative law firm helmed by two guys who fancy themselves old school gentlemen certainly would, and their moneyed corporate clients expecting to get the finest for what they're paying in fees certainly would as well. 

 

Quote

I guess I just don't get what is so unprofessional about her ponytail  Until it was mentioned here, I never noticed Kim's hair in a positive or negative way.  Maybe it would be considered "unprofessional" in the legal world, but if it is, that seems rather arbitrary to me. 

To you, sure, but in conservative corporate environments (not just law firms), hair is serious business, because the way employees present themselves is part of the brand. If a company wants to hold out their professionals as sober, dignified, and mature, they're going to want the appearances of their professionals to reflect that, and a high, curlicue ponytail that looks like it escaped from a prom attendee falls short of the mark.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Eyes High

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 

I guess I just don't get what is so unprofessional about her ponytail  Until it was mentioned here, I never noticed Kim's hair in a positive or negative way.  Maybe it would be considered "unprofessional" in the legal world, but if it is, that seems rather arbitrary to me. 

I can't believe I am still talking about a ponytail. But I want to make sure I am articulating my point. Ponytails in general are considered a casual hairstyle. Is showing up to work in a pulled back ponytail akin to wearing ripped jeans and flip flops? Of course not. I don't  know that most offices would ever say anything, or even think anything of it. I don't even know that the people of HHM would have a problem with one of their employees wearing her hair pulled back in a ponytail, at least not enough to directly confront her about it.

 

All that said, I think BCS has gone out of their way to show that Kim takes looking professional very seriously, and it's not a matter of doing something so egregious that she has to be scolded, she just doesn't want to do anything that could be perceived, even by a minority number of people, as unprofessional. This is the woman who was alone in the building at 3 am working (at HHM) who  was reluctant to slip off her high heels, even for a moment. Yet the camera at times seems to zero in on her swinging ponytail, like, they are highlighting this hairstyle choice. And it's not just a thrown back ponytail for convenience purposes- she takes time and effort curling and spraying her hair into a deliberately informal hairdo when nothing else about her professional visage is informal. It just seems odd.

[ByTor]

30 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Impeccable grooming and polish is part of the "package" expected of both male and female lawyers, particularly senior lawyers, who work at firms like HHM.

Hell, not only high-powered law firms.  Look at how poor Marcia Clark was raked over the coals for her hair and her "off the rack" suits.  There was nothing about her that looked bizarre, but she didn't have the expected look.

Edited June 14, 2017 by ByTor

[ShadowFacts]

If you watch Dateline-type shows, female prosecutors with longish hair are all over the map with their styles -- straight, curled, ponytailed, buns, natural, you name it.  Maybe in that milieu if you take too much care with grooming and wardrobe, you look like you are not diving into the work.  I don't know, Kim might want to fit in but retain some individuality at the same time.  I know that's what I would lean toward if I were in her shoes. 

[Tatum]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

If you watch Dateline-type shows, female prosecutors with longish hair are all over the map with their styles -- straight, curled, ponytailed, buns, natural, you name it.  Maybe in that milieu if you take too much care with grooming and wardrobe, you look like you are not diving into the work.  I don't know, Kim might want to fit in but retain some individuality at the same time.  I know that's what I would lean toward if I were in her shoes. 

Haha, well I do find it very "Kim-esque" to curl and spray the pony (instead of merely pulling it back and calling it good). Here is a woman who doesn't half ass anything.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Tatum

[Bryce Lynch]

On the podcast the talked a bit about the ponytail and more about Kim's clothing and jewelry.  They spoke about how Kim, like the single mom who raised Rhea, can't afford to wear different jewelry everyday or buy handbags to match her clothing and such.  She also mentioned how she and the costume designer independently had the same idea that Kim would wear slightly mismatched skirts and jackets as "suits".  They said she shops an Marshall's and tries to look like the high powered lawyers who have already made it.

They didn't go much into to it, but in passing they mentioned that as a busy  working woman, Kim would wear the same hairstyle every day and that it might be outdated.  

Somebody said that the audience might not even notice a lot of the details of her fashion.  But Gilligan commented and what amazing attention to detail BCS fans have and said many would.  I guess Vince was correct. :)

Edited June 14, 2017 by Bryce Lynch