S03.E10: Stingers

[Dev F]

They are really pushing it credibility wise with me. I thought the reveal was pretty good, actually. But them leaving her alone after Jared went coo-coo for coca puffs and killed his family? Really?

 

But the reason Jared flipped out was because after lying to him his entire life, his parents literally backed him up against a wall and told him he had no choice but to do things their way. I suspect that's exactly what Phillip and Elizabeth were thinking about when they discussed how they needed to give Paige her space or she'd get angry.

 

Also, we know that Stan has suspected Martha of being a mole, at least subconsciously, since the end of last season, when he was having dreams in which Martha stuffs classified files from the mail robot into her purse.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Dev F

[CarpeDiem54]

I must be the only person who didn't like the Paige reveal. First of all, when she started demanding they tell her their deep dark secret "if they really loved" her, and then topped it off that Pastor McCreepy was involved in her decision to demand "the truth", I wish P or E would have told her that what goes on in the family is none of that douche pastor's business. In fact, I would have turned the tables on her and told her that they were very hurt and felt betrayed that she'd been talking about private family matters with outsiders. And then Little Miss Snoopypants gets all upset when they tell her. Well, then why did she ask, the snot?

I'm more interested in the spy stuff. Can anyone explain to me what was going on with the guy at the hotel? Why was Elizabeth trying to seduce the manager? That whole Yousef storyline was very confusing.

And why has Henry got such a hard on for Stan's soon to be ex-wife? That's kinda weird.

[ruby24]

Well, Paige has gone to outsiders for help because of the way P&E are. She feels like they're not there, they're untruthful with her, and she feels lied to and at such a distance from them.

 

Which is exactly why I really don't think they're going to be able to turn her. She's gotten the help and attention she requires from others, not her own parents. Of course now, in order to be close to them, I guess they might open up, but the stuff they'd have to open up about involves murder, prostitution, lying to other people, hurting innocents. I think it's too late. Like I said earlier, maybe if she had already been very close to them, they could reel her in.

[pennben]

 

Meanwhile, Paige drifts around the house, finally picking up the phone to call Pastor Groovyhair and telling him...she talked to her parents and everything's fine. GOOD MOVE, PAIGE. [Tara quietly unscrews her silencer and puts her gun away, FOR NOW.]

 

That might be the funniest thing in a recap I've read in quite awhile.

[dr pepper]

Time to have a sudden change of heart and let Paige go to Kenya.

[kikaha]

 I would have turned the tables on her and told her that they were very hurt and felt betrayed that she'd been talking about private family matters with outsiders.

I'm more interested in the spy stuff. Can anyone explain to me what was going on with the guy at the hotel? Why was Elizabeth trying to seduce the manager? That whole Yousef storyline was very confusing.

 

 

Paige feels the need to talk to outsiders because her own parents won't do that.  They constantly lie to her.  They semi-abandon her and her brother.  Similar, in ways, to how Kimmie's parents treat her, which is one reason Kimmie's situation gets to Phillip so much.  He sees his own daughter reflected in Kimmie's eyes. 

 

Pastor Tim has become a surrogate father for Paige.  And from what I've seen, not in a bad way.  He is not trying to take the place of her parents.  He's trying to bring them all closer as a family.  

 

There's a reason the church clicked so for Paige.  It gives her that closeness, that sense of family, that P&E do not. 

[txhorns79]

But the reason Jared flipped out was because after lying to him his entire life, his parents literally backed him up against a wall and told him he had no choice but to do things their way. I suspect that's exactly what Phillip and Elizabeth were thinking about when they discussed how they needed to give Paige her space or she'd get angry.

 

I thought Jared's issue was he was approached by the Center without his parents' consent, the Center revealed the lie, recruited Jared and he turned on his parents because they did not want him involved in any of it.  His issue was more that the Center had indoctrinated him, and when his parents wanted it to end, he saw them as the enemy.  I mean, Philip and Elizabeth also have backed Paige into a corner and told her she has no choice but to do things their way.  I suppose she could turn on them and call the police, but that doesn't seem like a realistic option for her given the consequences of that action.      

Edited April 2, 2015 by txhorns79

[Blakeston]

Did anyone find the post-confession phone call with Pastor Tim a bit... Strange? I am thinking Paige has some kind of relationship with him and wanted leverage on her parents so she could do whatever she wanted. The whole thing was just came off so odd and did not really address what we just saw.

 

I think Paige was desperate to talk to someone else about what had just happened. She didn't want to risk getting her parents imprisoned or executed, so she left out the part about them being Russian spies, and focused on the parts she could divulge - that she actually went through with the talk, and her parents were open with her, and she at least knows now that she isn't crazy.

 

I don't know, it seemed weird to me. Why was she asking? Would she even know the difference between Russian and gibberish? Why did Elizabeth oblige?

 

If I were Paige, and my parents - who speak perfect English, 24/7 - told me that they're actually spies from the USSR, my initial reaction would be disbelief. One of the first things out of my mouth would be, "Prove it. Say something in Russian."

[Boundary]

 Great acting by everyone, especially Keri and Holly. When that reveal happened, everything else faded into the background. That last scene, wow.

 

 It's the only reason I don't think telling Paige was a good idea: Stan. She won't risk splitting up her family, since she doesn't know anyone but she's not going to rush in to her parents' cause either. And when she learns more about how they obtain information, she might be outraged enough to approach Stan. Not for a while though.

 

It just struck me how exposed Philip and Elizabeth are. Martha basically knows who Clark is, and Stan is on to her. Paige now knows the truth, and Stan lives nearby. Stan, on the other hand, is compromised by this Oleg/Nina conspiracy. He basically lied to the FBI investigator about Nina and if Arkady unearths the Oleg thing, the Russians could use that against Stan. This whole thing is far from simple.

[TeresaDee]

If I may digress a bit, back to the "evil empire" stuff. I graduated high school in 1979, so I would have been a bit older than Paige. While Reagan led the country down a conservative road in the early 80s, there were still many of us progressives out there who didn't buy the program. My college campus was definitely going in a conservative direction, but my friends and I were liberals who were still fighting for peace and didn't see the USSR as evil. I think Paige and her church would fall into that group as well.

The question for me is, now that she knows the truth, would the center allow her to passively support her parents? If she agreed with their cause but didn' t want to participate herself, where does that leave things? Would she be seen as too much of a loose cannon?

Edited April 2, 2015 by TeresaDee

[stillshimpy]

CarpeDiem, you are not the only one that failed to love the Great Paige Reveal.  I was thinking throughout that they've been building to this for so long, but just like with the Jared reveal, this show struggles to bring home things in an emotionally authentic manner.  Also, I have no wish to be unkind to a teenage actor, so I am not going to be, but what I was thinking throughout the reaction shots was what an unfair burden it was to put on such a young actor to try and carry off something she doesn't have enough life experience to understand fully.   

I think they were wise to go with "Paige is shocked and stunned" as her reaction and actually isn't saying anything against the actor when I say this, it was the kindest move they could have made even if I didn't buy it.  There's an element to shock that is really difficult to pull off if you've never actually experienced it: Your body doesn't work quite right.  Even if someone is stunned into absolute silence, things tend to go pretty wonky and in a teen -- even in someone known to not fly into typical teenage hysterics -- the very last thing to develop in our brains as adults is impulse control.   

Rather than prattle on forever, for anyone that watches Downton Abbey, the way Maggie Smith walked across the room after hearing of a shocking death and it was like someone had loosened every screw in every joint of her body is what I'm talking about.  She wasn't falling down or stumbling, but there was a perceivable difference.  

 

So anyway, that's what I'm talking about when I say that I think Holly Taylor did an admirable job with things she can't possibly fully understand yet, and that I was mainly aware that it was a terribly unfair thing to ask of her.  A stunned person's body goes on autopilot when they've received a hideous shock, but it is perceivable.  

 

I wasn't digging it.  As for leaving her alone all day, sooner or later they would have to do that.  She'd have to go to school.   She'd have to be out in public.  She'd have to see Stan and it's actually more dangerous after she's had time to process everything, so it's probably a good idea to engender good will in her by demonstrably proving their trust in her.  Also, it makes perfect sense that Elizabeth's Russian accent stinks at this point: she hasn't been allowed to say anything in Russian since she was Paige's age.  

 

Walter Taffet is either really good at his job, or he is really bad at his job.  His conciliatory tone with Stan was ridiculous, because you know who is the most likely person to snap like a wet carrot and do something completely out of his known character?  Someone whose wife left him after he got home from three years undercover....and for another dude from all appearances.   However, since pretty much every American character stinks like gym socks at their given job, Taffet will turn out to suck, I'm sure.  

 

Back to Paige for a moment, the best part of Holly Taylor's performance last night, I thought, was actually just great acting for a person of any age: That scene when Stan came in and she is freaked.the.fuck.out in a silent manner.  Just completely not normal to the naked eye.   It's a shame that the show didn't just trust that moment and instead had Phillip sharpening a knife.  I guess I should be glad that Elizabeth wasn't casually cleaning a gun, or chopping meat with a cleaver.  Good heavens, show what a bad choice and here's why: 

 

Being afraid that her parents will freak the hell out and murder Stan is precisely why Paige would end up telling someone "Oh say....about my parents, it's the damnedest thing but...."  

 

ETA:  Also, whereas I am actually thrilled that this show got renewed, because I adore the cast among other things, if they want me to buy, even for one nanosecond that Paige will do something other than sing like a canary to the first authority figure she thinks won't die at that very moment, then they should have picked between these two things: 

 

They can either have Paige silently buy the "We fight for Peace" thing Elizabeth said, with seemingly no irony.  Or, they can mention a Soviet run war in Afghanistan in every.single.episode of this season.  They can't really have it both ways.   

I know several people have said that it wasn't a time when we still believed the Soviets would blow the world up....and yes, it specifically was more than it had been the year prior to that because the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan.  They were literally rolling out war on the geopolitical landscape.  It was a setback for their "The Soviets: really, shouldn't we just forget this Cold War paranoia?" mindset, to say the very least because...."Oh...ha, well  go figure.  So they just started an entirely unprovoked war! Silly Cold War fears, amirite?" 

Edited April 2, 2015 by stillshimpy

[RedHawk]

Could it be that the looming shot of Philip sharpening the knife was supposed to be Paige's intensified view of what she usually would not notice? Stan is no longer simply a nice neighbor but a possible threat, someone from whom Paige must now conceal something huge. She may be projecting that he's in danger, or feeling that if she sounds a false note her father might suddenly turn violent .

Edited April 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[txhorns79]

If I were Paige, and my parents - who speak perfect English, 24/7 - told me that they're actually spies from the USSR, my initial reaction would be disbelief. One of the first things out of my mouth would be, "Prove it. Say something in Russian."

 

I have to agree.  That's a pretty far out scenario even for the most jaded, cynical teenager.  I would probably ask for some kind of proof, like a test of their language skills. 

[henripootel]

Why did stan lie about another woman? That was a stupid lie and easily contradicted.

 

Interrogator: So was there another woman?

Stan: Yep.  Hot one.

I: Who is she?

S: Name of Nina.  Works for the Reziden ... Amway.

Interrogator darkens perceptibly.  

Edited April 2, 2015 by henripootel

[Blakeston]

 

I'm more interested in the spy stuff. Can anyone explain to me what was going on with the guy at the hotel? Why was Elizabeth trying to seduce the manager? That whole Yousef storyline was very confusing.

And why has Henry got such a hard on for Stan's soon to be ex-wife? That's kinda weird.

I don't think we're supposed to know exactly what the hotel scheme is yet. It sounds like some mujihadeen officials will be staying there, courtesy of the CIA. And P&E both showed up at the hotel, because they didn't know if the hotel manager would be a man or a woman. When they determined it was a man, that meant Philip could leave, because it was Elizabeth's job to honeytrap him. We don't know the specifics of what she wants from him, though.

As for Stan's wife, she's about as MILF-y as they come. I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Blakeston

[stillshimpy]

I would have been SO delighted if the hotel clerk had turned out to be gay, by the way.  Just thrilled beyond the telling of it if Elizabeth was whipping out the sexy voice and the manager had just looked at her like, "Yeah, no.  But I will comp your room."  

 

By the way, Tara commented on this in the recap and I have to agree: Fresh sheets and a free stay in what you know was a recently soiled bed (if she'd been a real customer) is just not going to cut it.  New room, a suite (because nothing says "time to upgrade" than nether region stains from a stranger in the bed you are to occupy) and a comp is a better idea, because finding evidence of bodily fluids on your bed is just one crucial notch down from finding a maid's body stuffed under the bed in terms of "People will freak the hell out over this, no really".  

 

We have proof that not one single person on the writing staff has ever worked for a hotel.  I was laughing my ass off when Super Suave Steve: Bad Hotel Manager said he had a degree in hospitality because, demonstrably dude, you do not.  

 

Also?  Gaad totally knows about Stan's affair with Nina.  So not telling Taffet was not merely an odd choice, he has someone in the office who knows it is a lie...and it's the guy whose office was bugged, so you'd think Gaad would have mentioned the living hell out of it to Taffet.  Seeing as the super obvious stare of doubt that Gaad and Aderholt exchanged last week seems to support that Stan is no longer trusted. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by stillshimpy

[shura]

I have to agree.  That's a pretty far out scenario even for the most jaded, cynical teenager.  I would probably ask for some kind of proof, like a test of their language skills.

 

Sure. And then you would hear a sequence of sounds that means nothing to you, and realize that you have no idea whether they passed the test or not.

 

I was laughing my ass off when Super Suave Steve: Bad Hotel Manager said he had a degree in hospitality because, demonstrably dude, you do not.

 

A part of me was wondering whether the manager was supposed to be a CIA person waiting for those mujaheddin and that was the reason Elizabeth was working him. Btw, love the phrase "mujihadeen officials" :).

 

Interesting how Nina's key to Baklanov turned out to be speaking English. She really could make a great spy. How about a Nina and Henry show?

[Chaos Theory]

This episode made me realize how much I like both the Jennings kids. This is one of the few "adult" shows where the kids/teens are not insufferable morons.

<~~~~edited because one word sometimes means all the difference.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[molshoop]

What if Paige told her parents that she'd keep quiet if they would just quit being spies. They could just
run the travel agency and have more time for her and Henry.  Paige is smart, but would she know that
being a Russian spy is like checking into The Hotel California ?

 

And what plan do P&E have in place if she says she has to tell someone, or if they find out she has.
Would they put her in a psychiatric institution, ship her to another country or what? If there is even a hint
that they'd consider killing her, I'm out.

[sistermagpie]

I thought Keri Russel was impressive with her Russian but I just played her words to my mother and Mama said her accent was "a nightmare".

 

I really loved the fact that *Elizabeth*, not Philip, was the one to speak Russian to Paige.

 

that it was discussed a couple years ago that Sophia is Paige's Russian name for some reason. Does anybody remember this?

 

LOL! She spoke my favorite kind of Russian--slow and with an American accent. Totally comprehensible to me--thanks Elizabeth!

 

Thought it was totally right Elizabeth spoke it too. Philip might be the one who could push her over the line to tell Paige what they are, but he still doesn't naturally like to mix his personas. Elizabeth was basically asking them to "be" MIscha and Nadia and naturally Elizabeth would more want to do that instinctively.

 

Why would Paige have a Russian name? I think Paige is her only name.

 

I also thought it was slightly hilarious how menacing Philip looked from Paige's POV at the very end while she was staring at Stan. I want her parents to relate to her with real stories about their families. They need to humanize themselves as much as possible to her.

 

 

Philip's always so cagey about his past but I can actually see a good argument for how the only thing that would really get him to open up was Paige asking--presumably next season.

 

 

I thought that looked like Scotty Baldwin!  Do you know who the woman in the scene was?

 

 

Susan Moore, his wife at the time. I think it's mentioned up above.

 

I see theat e thinks passion for a cause can be switched, the way religious people fo one faith sometimes convert and afe just as religious in another faith, but she truly doesn't understand at passion for the church has zero in common with working for peace in a way that justifies killing old ladies, innocents, and having sex to learn facts. Paige ain't wver going to see it that way.

 

I actually could see her betraying them though, seeing how she's so much closer to Pastor Tim and feels like she has no relationship with them anyway.

 

 

 

That's assuming that what Paige has is really passion for the church. She's 15 and this is something she's been into since she was 14. For her it was all given to her at the same time, along with groovy Pastor Tim. That doesn't mean that in the end it will shake out that passion for religion is the real draw for her forever. (Maybe especially since to me that church seems so centered on Pastor Tim. Would another guy work as well?)

 

I don't think it's true at all she feels she has no relationship to her parents. She's close to both of them and loves them-otherwise why have this confrontation? She was just distanced by their obvious secret. And they know her very well and love her. They've just now revealed themselves so she can understand them as people instead of just as parental figures.

 

She's not closer to Pastor Tim, imo, he just fills a specific role in her life--and that role, btw, is to be always right and perfect and better than her parents. She doesn't roll her eyes at Pastor Tim, he doesn't have flaws like Mom and Dad, she doesn't yell for him to find her green sweater. She was isolated from her parents by the part of their life she knew she was cut out of and now she's in it with them, like it or not. This ep had lots of people seeming "closer" to other peoples' children, but as Philip rightly said, that's not the same.

 

I don't think, btw, that she's now going to be brought in on everything they're doing. They might have to say something but why would she suddenly have to meet Kimmie?

 

Giving money to local builders probably makes sure the school never gets built.  They wouldn't consider it corruption: they would consider it survival.

I thought Pastor Tim was pretty spot on when he spoke with Phillip.  Paige desperately needs time with and guidance from her parents.  She just made a desperate plea for that with them.  Whether or not they go on that trip -- which is probably not going to happen -- P&E need to pay lots more attention to their kids.

 

Time to have a sudden change of heart and let Paige go to Kenya.

 

 

My point is that 20 teenagers from Virginia have no idea how to build a church so that's not why they're going. They're going for the missionary experience. It's really a loaded question, just as it is whenever the US or USSR does something on this show. They're never just doing it because some other people need X. They're also doing it for influence.

 

More time and attention is always a good thing, but a mission trip is about them bonding through their common goal, just like bonding through Elizabeth's cause would be. They bonded far more with her by sitting down at the kitchen table and telling her the truth about their horribly flawed selves without Pastor Tim's guidance. Personally, I like the fact that Philip dials back on the "guidance" part and wants her to find her way, even if she tries out different things he thinks are weird.

 

Also, it's not like these guys never spend any time with their kids. They have conversations about things that are important to her and what they think about things, albeit ones that tend to be stifled by their secret. Philip definitely sees Paige in Kimmie but I think Kimmie would think Paige's relationship with her parents was fantastic. It seems unfair that times they really struggle to connect with Paige are so inferior to Pastor Tim's professional skills.

 

Philip and Elizabeth sometimes pay obsessive attention to Paige in private, but as a teenager it's normal that she'd have whole parts of her personality that are hidden to them. Pastor Tim tells Philip to treat her "like an adult" but he treats her like exactly what she is--a teenager in his flock who needs guidance and comes to him for advice and praise. Philip and Elizabeth treated her much more like an adult in this ep by revealing their huge flaws and sins (some of them) and entrusting her with something dangerous to them. Pastor Tim always looks like a hero to her. (Interesting again to compare that to Philip-as-Jim who played flaws there too for his own ends--that's Philip as professional, of course.)

 

Philip seemed to be fine with Paige going to Kenya. He often really does try to reach out to Pastor Tim and make it clear that since Paige respects him Philip wants to try to be friendly. Pastor Tim went for another mile, of course--hey, the whole family should become his disciples! The way to bond is through the church! Who cares if you're atheists--I'll pretend that's not important at first.

 

I wish P or E would have told her that what goes on in the family is none of that douche pastor's business.

 

 

This whole post made me laugh, but I admit I've just always been very nervous about this kid handing this guy who interacts with her parents the way he does and has his own agenda all these suspicions about their comings and goings.

 

Pastor Tim has become a surrogate father for Paige.  And from what I've seen, not in a bad way.  He is not trying to take the place of her parents.  He's trying to bring them all closer as a family.

 

 

I disagree. I think that's exactly what he thinks he's doing, and he's been good to her in many ways. But he acts too entitled and condescending and pushes his own agenda far too much for me to really buy that he cares so much about her getting closer to Philip in his current form--he doesn't respect her parents' beliefs enough. I think Philip is ironically far more genuine with Kimmie because he admits to his manipulation and hidden agenda, at least to himself. I think this is a big reason why Philip hates him even if he's not aware of that reason. 

 

Even if someone is stunned into absolute silence, things tend to go pretty wonky and in a teen -- even in someone known to not fly into typical teenage hysterics -- the very last thing to develop in our brains as adults is impulse control.

Being afraid that her parents will freak the hell out and murder Stan is precisely why Paige would end up telling someone "Oh say....about my parents, it's the damnedest thing but...."

 

I would have been trembling violently, I know that much. This makes me remember Philip's reaction at Gabriel's first reveal about Mischa Jr. He somehow managed to show the physical reaction while staying perfectly still. That was impressive.

 

They haven't murdered Stan so far--why would they murder him now? 

Edited April 2, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Blakeston]

I would have been SO delighted if the hotel clerk had turned out to be gay, by the way.  Just thrilled beyond the telling of it if Elizabeth was whipping out the sexy voice and the manager had just looked at her like, "Yeah, no.  But I will comp your room."  

 

By the way, Tara commented on this in the recap and I have to agree: Fresh sheets and a free stay in what you know was a recently soiled bed (if she'd been a real customer) is just not going to cut it.  New room, a suite (because nothing says "time to upgrade" than nether region stains from a stranger in the bed you are to occupy) and a comp is a better idea, because finding evidence of bodily fluids on your bed is just one crucial notch down from finding a maid's body stuffed under the bed in terms of "People will freak the hell out over this, no really".  

 

Wait...did Elizabeth make it look like someone pooped the bed? Or at least peed in it? I assumed that was supposed to be a wine stain, or something to that effect.

 

::shudders uncontrollably::

 

Sure. And then you would hear a sequence of sounds that means nothing to you, and realize that you have no idea whether they passed the test or not.

 

Trying to speak gibberish in a way that could even pass for Russian, even to an untrained ear, would be very, very difficult. I tried it just now, and it came out like baby talk. No one would ever believe I was actually speaking Russian.

 

Admittedly, I thought that what Elizabeth said was rather brief to be completely convincing to someone in Paige's situation. If I were Paige, I would have said, "Keep going." But I imagine that was done because of the difficulty involved in teaching Keri Russell to speak extended Russian dialogue convincingly.

[Chaos Theory]

There are times you lie and there are times you don't even when you are lying liars who lie. When you just told your daughter you are Russuan spies and she asks you to speak Russian....you speak Russian. When she asks for some alone time you give it to her. Lying to her and hovering would have been the definiton of counterproductive.

[Dev F]

I thought Jared's issue was he was approached by the Center without his parents' consent, the Center revealed the lie, recruited Jared and he turned on his parents because they did not want him involved in any of it.  His issue was more that the Center had indoctrinated him, and when his parents wanted it to end, he saw them as the enemy.       

 

Well, seduced him more than indoctrinated him; Jared was more about staying loyal to his hot older girlfriend than supporting any particular cause. But in any event, I think my description is still accurate -- things came to a head with Jared because his parents backed him into a corner and left him with no recourse other than to lash out.

 

I mean, Philip and Elizabeth also have backed Paige into a corner and told her she has no choice but to do things their way.  I suppose she could turn on them and call the police, but that doesn't seem like a realistic option for her given the consequences of that action.

 

But they did present that to her as an option. Informing her of the terrible consequences of that decision isn't the same as saying she has no decision to make.

 

Obviously, it's a sucky no-win situation for Paige any way you slice it. But her parents are deliberately giving her room to breathe within that sucky situation, precisely because they've seen from Jared's example that being prescriptive about it is a recipe for disaster.

[lucindabelle]

While stan admitting to his affair with Nina would look bad, when they find out about it anyway, and they will, and learn he covered it up, it will be worse.

Maybe 20. Teens don't know how to build a church without adult supervision but there will be some. I believe it is what they are doing, because missions like that exist right now. My own synagogue does stuff like that (and we are not spies, at least, not to my knowledge).

Re the hotel: so true, for America, they are stingy abroad though. In Ireland two years ago I ate something that nearly killed me at a Radisson and had to strong arm the hotel into chomping that one night when I was too sick to move, they tried telling me the allergen wasn't in the food but my irish doctor said otherwise. I was on e phone with my us lawyer when they caved. Shocking really. They even charged me for he tea they brought me while I was lying in bed unable to move due to the Epipen.

[Dev F]

I don't think Stan has the slightest clue that the defector that he is watching over is really a foreign spy. I thought that he was trying to frame her in an effort to get her sent back to the Soviet Union in a trade for Nina.

 

No, we saw in the second episode Zinaida appeared in that Stan genuinely suspects her. He was alerted to the possibility when he realized that Zinaida was being overly enthusiastic about telling the Americans exactly what they wanted to hear -- exactly what he did when he was undercover with the white supremacists.

[shura]

Trying to speak gibberish in a way that could even pass for Russian, even to an untrained ear, would be very, very difficult. I tried it just now, and it came out like baby talk. No one would ever believe I was actually speaking Russian.

 

Nah, just string together some "babushka's", "vodka's" and "perestroika's", add something that ends with "-sky", make sure your voice rises and falls as if you are actually saying something, and you are good. As good as Elizabeth was, at least.

[kikaha]

Elizabeth's Russian was accurate but her accent was horrible. 

 

sistermagpie: the trip to Africa obviously has several motivations.  One of them, though, is to build a school.  With correct management, the kids should be able to do a fine job of that -- not as architects or materials buyers, but as construction workers.  They'll put in hard work, learn plenty of valuable lessons, obtain a few building skills, and likely produce a decent enough structure.  Any money they send (instead of doing it themselves) would likely end up in the pockets of corrupt officials.  Africa has learned that tragic lesson repeatedly. 

 

Are P&E good parents?  In some ways, yes.  But in a critical way they are not.  They have hidden their real identities from their kids.  Not just their names or histories.  But who they are, what they believe, how the world works.  Hard to tell a bigger lie to your children than that. 

 

Kids are often pretty intuitive.  Paige especially so.  She knows her parents are hiding.  If they weren't, I bet the church never would have interested her.  It fills the void of P&E's shortcomings. 

 

I completely agree with whoever said that center surely would have planned for this day. 

[curbcrusher]

And what plan do P&E have in place if she says she has to tell someone, or if they find out she has.

Would they put her in a psychiatric institution, ship her to another country or what? If there is even a hint

that they'd consider killing her, I'm out.

 

 

When this scene was playing out, I thought Phillip was about to tell her that if she told anyone, they would have to kill them. The way he paced is line and the look on his face was (to paraphrase) "You can't tell anyone" pause, serious look, "If you do, we will ...." another pause, seemed to be choosing his words and then a more relaxed "will be arrested and go to jail."  As I was watching I was reallying thinking that he was going to end with "have to kill them."

[spaceghostess]

I lurk more than comment here, since I don't usually have much of value to add to the conversation, but very much enjoy what everyone has to say, especially those who offer the Russian perspective. Once in a while, however, an episode compels me out of lurkdom.

 

I agree with stillshimpy that Holly had a tall order to fill in the kitchen table scene, but I thought she pulled it off pretty well.  The compromise of being very still instead of acting a shock (as opposed to "shocked") reaction worked for me, since the alternative probably would have come off very awkwardly. I thought her best acting in that scene was actually when she demands the truth from her parents. The tears in her eyes and her fear of the truth but determination to get it from them rang true. And yeah, the expression on her face in the last scene with Stan? Masterfully done.

I must be the only person who didn't like the Paige reveal. First of all, when she started demanding they tell her their deep dark secret "if they really loved" her, and then topped it off that Pastor McCreepy was involved in her decision to demand "the truth", I wish P or E would have told her that what goes on in the family is none of that douche pastor's business. In fact, I would have turned the tables on her and told her that they were very hurt and felt betrayed that she'd been talking about private family matters with outsiders. And then Little Miss Snoopypants gets all upset when they tell her. Well, then why did she ask, the snot?

I didn't think there was anything manipulative or snotty about Paige's "demanding" the truth. She senses there's something seriously "wrong" about her family, and it terrifies her. She knows her parents have been hiding something really important from her. They allow her to take responsibility for Henry so that they can disappear on bogus travel agency business at all hours. They've brushed off her less direct attempts at getting information; they've outright lied, and Paige knows it. These are the people Paige is supposed to be able to trust more than anyone; she's given them ample opportunity to come clean, and they never have. That being the case, she brings out the big "if you really love me" guns, figuring it's the only way she'll get the truth out of them. And she's right. As for confiding in Pastor Groovyhair? Again, I don't blame her. Would she have been better off telling her worries to someone her own age? He's playing a role in her life that feels parental. Also, he's bound by his position as a clergyman to keep what she says confidential, which is more than one could say about a fellow teenager. She's only fifteen, she needs advice, and she feels scared and alone. I totally get it.  She was smart enough not to tell him what she learned, so I'm fine with it.

 

As to keeping family business in the family, that's an unreasonable expectation to have if you're lying to your children all the goddamned time. At some point, unless the kids are complete idiots, they're going to start asking questions, and rightfully so. Philip and Elizabeth have no right to expect this child they created to help legitimize their American identities to cover for them when she doesn't know what the hell is going on, and it would have been horrific if they'd reacted as you described. To turn the tables on her and say they feel betrayed would indicate true contempt and an absence of compassion and tenderness for their own child, and as much as they've already betrayed and manipulated Paige and Henry in the most fundamental of ways, P & E do have visceral, primal love for their kids.

 

All I could think was "Poor Paige!" once she'd learned the truth. What a heavy burden for this young girl to carry, and I disagree that she deserves this misery as punishment for being Little Miss Snoopypants.

 

I thought that, having made the decision to ring that bell, Philip and Elizabeth showed their love for Paige in their handling of the revelation. MR and KR acted all the scenes with Paige just beautifully, conveying with quiet intensity so much guilt, heartbreak, and fear for their daughter. That being said, it was a little hard for me to concentrate on the action after that scene over my husband's shouts of "She's dead, she's dead!"

Edited April 2, 2015 by spaceghostess

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought for sure when Phillip and Elizabeth started telling Paige about what they were hiding, I didn't think it was going to be the whole truth.  "We weren't born here..."  me: they'll say another country, not Russia.  They'll say they're spies for someone else. "... We're from Russia..."  me: well this is the part they will be truthful about right now, not the spy stuff.  "we do things for them..."  me: well, I was wrong every step of the way.

 

Then when Paige called Pastor Tim*, I thought she might tell him using the shield of "confessional" (or whatever it's called for her denomination) thinking he wouldn't tell anyone else.  That didn't happen, but I wonder if it will.

 

I thought Elizabeth or Phillip would stay behind to watch over Paige w/o her knowing it.  Not staying in the house or with her knowledge, but being nearby to see if anyone came over or anything.  Or at least get the Center to send someone to do that.

 

When Stan came over I read Paige as "Stan...  FBI..  Oh.  Oh!   OH!  My parents are Russian spies and friends with an FBI agent?  Don't react, keep still..."  I wonder if now she'll be worried for him?  or eventually see him as an "out" if she learns of some of the more ruthless things her parents have done.

 

* a part of me also wondered if Tim would be like "We know.  We've been waiting for you to know.  That's why I wanted you to confront them."  Not sure how that would work or what purpose it would serve, but it was a thought I had.  That he was in the know, but on their side.  Guess I was a little paranoid last night.

[SunnyBeBe]

While we know the couple has been struggling with the idea of what to do with Paige, it still seemed, as others have stated, quite an odd presentation.  The way Paige just threw her tantrum and demanded the truth, reminded me of a spoiled child demanding they get to stay up til midnight.  As a parent, you have to consider the child's emotional state and expectations, but more importantly, do what is RIGHT for the child.  Having this very sensitive information is not likely to help Paige. Yes, she may stop feeling lied to, but in exchange she will feel terrified that her parents will be caught or killed and she sent to Russia or an orphanage. Which is worse? IMO, allowing her to be angry and alienated may have been best for her for yet a while longer, until they got everything lined up with a plan anyway. 

 

ALSO, no one has said much about this, but to me it was HUGE.  What was the code like message Paige gave when she called the Pastor?  It was something like they admitted to something that she and Pastor had discussed.  What?  How is that possible?  I can see them discussing if she was adopted, they had criminal records, affairs, etc.  but NOT that they were Russian spies.  Unless Pastor is a fake, Russian spies would not be on his lists of possibilities.  It was like she was confirming something with the Pastor. Please explain.

 

I also think that the Pastor's visit to Philip's office was beyond absurd.  His comments about Paige to his daughter were over the top and WAY none of his business.  I kept thinking.....Pastor has be disposed of very discreetly.  lol

 

My funny moment was when Philip was telling Paige what would happen if she told anyone their secret.  He paused for a moment and said that he and her mom would go to prison forever, but I expected him to say that he and mom would have to kill her.......LOL.   I mean...really though.   The center would see it that way.

[Chaos Theory]

Nah, just string together some "babushka's", "vodka's" and "perestroika's", add something that ends with "-sky", make sure your voice rises and falls as if you are actually saying something, and you are good. As good as Elizabeth was, at least.

 

 

But all Paige has to do is remember a word; a single word.  It may have been years before the internet age but teens still did research projects and Paige could look up that word and if it didn't translate right or even close then she would know that her parents were lying to her and the last thing P&E want right now is to be caught in a lie.  This is the one time they cannot lie.  Every word out of their mouths has to be at least somewhat true.  

Edited April 2, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[sistermagpie]

Maybe 20. Teens don't know how to build a church without adult supervision but there will be some. I believe it is what they are doing, because missions like that exist right now. My own synagogue does stuff like that (and we are not spies, at least, not to my knowledge).

 

 

But it's also a missionary trip. Missionary=promoting Christianity in a foreign country. Of course there are other benefits as well. The kids work hard. They build a church. But Henry's question is still a good one and "they need churches in Kenya" is not the full answer. Also I have talked to a lot of people about missionary trips and there is also a very specific draw of going to visit less fortunate people and feeling like a better Christian. Henry always asks blunt questions about this stuff. I wasn't implying they were spies at all, but that it was a mission trip.

 

Then when Paige called Pastor Tim*, I thought she might tell him using the shield of "confessional" (or whatever it's called for her denomination) thinking he wouldn't tell anyone else.  That didn't happen, but I wonder if it will.

 

 

He's not a priest so I don't know if his church does confession. Doesn't look like it would.

 

ALSO, no one has said much about this, but to me it was HUGE.  What was the code like message Paige gave when she called the Pastor?  It was something like they admitted to something that she and Pastor had discussed.

 

 

I didn't see any code there implied. Paige had spoken to Pastor Tim about confronting her parents and was just telling him that she did and that they didn't do some of the things she feared they'd do, like act like she was crazy. 

 

Paige was of course, ironically, now in the position of her parents, suddenly being less forthcoming because she had a dangerous secret she could not share with him. So rather than, say, eagerly bubbling about the great talk they had, or crying about how they really don't love her, she could only sadly report that it was done.

Edited April 2, 2015 by sistermagpie

[teddysmom]

Who knew the FBI was the original  Blockbuster Video?   I don't need no damn OnDemand or Netflix, I'll just get it from my neighbor the FBI agent. 

 

I didn't know if I was going to cry or get that "sick to your stomach stress adrenaline rush" during the scenes when Paige found out the truth.  Just amazing work by everyone.    And Paige's realization that Stan is FBI and Mom & Dad are KGB.  

 

I did appreciate how they placed the scene with Henry doing his Eddie Murphy/Mr Robinson impersonation right after that, lightened the mood for a moment.  

 

Wouldn't the hotel have offered Elizabeth ("do you like my new bra") a different room?  I'm NOT sleeping on any bed that looks like somebody was murdered in it.  New sheets/steak dinner aren't going to cut it.  

[FormerMod-a1]

He's not a priest so I don't know if his church does confession. Doesn't look like it would.

 

 Sure, but years of watching L&O still tells me that regardless of religion, conversations between priest/pastor/minister/rabbi/etc and member can often be "protected" with the member expecting secrecy/privacy about it.

[sistermagpie]

Sure, but years of watching L&O still tells me that regardless of religion, conversations between priest/pastor/minister/rabbi/etc and member can often be "protected" with the member expecting secrecy/privacy about it.

 

I think on L&O they're usually leaning on the legal distinction, though. Like they don't have to testify. Pastor Tim would still be just a guy who could choose to blab if he thought it was the right thing to do.

 

But all Paige has to do is remember a word; a single word.  It may have been years before the internet age but teens still did research projects and Paige could look up that word and if it didn't translate right or even close then she would know that her parents were lying to her and the last thing P&E want right now is to be caught in a lie.  This is the one time they cannot lie.  Every word out of their mouths has to be at least somewhat true.

 

 

And why lie? I mean, yes, they could have said something to her in Russian that was gobbledy cook, like the equivalent of saying "The dog climbs sweaters in green moonlight" but it would be just as easier to say something true and much easier than trying to say sounds that aren't really Russian for them. Paige knows that she can't judge what those foreign sounds mean, she wasn't really using it to prove anything that way. It's not like she taped them and rushed out to a Russian speaker to clarify it. She just wanted to hear them really speak and they did. Or Elizabeth did and Philip translated.

[VCRTracking]

Sneaky Paige, using the old "My parents told me their Russian spies" to stay home and watch General Hospital!

 

In all seriousness, halfway through the episode I thought it wasn't going to be as good as the last few weeks, then they came home and Paige suddenly demanded to know the truth and I was "Ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygod" during the whole scene. When Phillip said "Don't tell anyone or else.." I definitely expected him to finish with "or we'd have to kill them!"

 

So Stan was right and the "defector" is a spy code named Willow.

 

Not much on the wig department, but Elizabeth's wardrobe looked fantastic. That very 80s jumpsuit with the collar that

 

Loved Henry and his excitement over Tron and reciting Eddie Murphy's "Mister Robertson" bit from SNL.

[Slainte]

Telling Paige! Glued to my seat! OM--wait.....what??

 

#1-Can't believe they weren't prepared for any instance of anybody finding out anything. From a fireman discovering the basement room to a clever child saying what's up with this weird life we have here. They can't count on being able to kill everyone who suspects!

 

#2-And most important....Why the brevity? Like, we're spies, kid. Now go to bed. Big news like this should be accompanied with a Story. An abbreviated and much-censored Story, told with misty eyes and hot chocolate, a sentimental tale to warm a young girl's heart.

Time enough later for her to learn the Whole Truth. Fed to her slowly and carefully, bite by bite.

[Penman61]

I've carefully and selflessly researched this question for nearly three decades, and I can report within a 3% margin of error that 69% of all male desk clerks in major urban area hotels are gay.  Elizabeth got lucky.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Penman61

[shura]

But all Paige has to do is remember a word; a single word.  It may have been years before the internet age but teens still did research projects and Paige could look up that word and if it didn't translate right or even close then she would know that her parents were lying to her and the last thing P&E want right now is to be caught in a lie.  This is the one time they cannot lie.  Every word out of their mouths has to be at least somewhat true.

 

Oh, I was just illustrating that it's really not that incredibly difficult to fake speaking Russian in front of a non-speaker. They didn't have to fake it, of course.

 

Who knew the FBI was the original  Blockbuster Video?

 

Nina did, Stan rented "The French Lieutenant's Woman" for her there.

[FormerMod-a1]

I think on L&O they're usually leaning on the legal distinction, though. Like they don't have to testify. Pastor Tim would still be just a guy who could choose to blab if he thought it was the right thing to do.

 

 

But Paige might still expect it stay between the two of them.  I can see her talking to him thinking he's a safe choice because of it.  

[lucindabelle]

 

 

#2-And most important....Why the brevity? Like, we're spies, kid. Now go to bed. Big news like this should be accompanied with a Story. An abbreviated and much-censored Story, told with misty eyes and hot chocolate, a sentimental tale to warm a young girl's heart.

Time enough later for her to learn the Whole Truth. Fed to her slowly and carefully, bite by bite.

Slainte (by the way, love your name!)... it was brief for the same reason that people on TV never say goodbye when they hang up the phone, routinely pop in on neighbors in apartment people, and never want their moment in the sun to be interviewed about the death of a friend to the police.

 

Because television.

[scowl]

I'm hoping for a scene where Paige excitedly tells Stan that her parents are Soviet spies, and Stan laughs the whole time.

[maczero]

Henry is going to make a brilliant spy. He can sneak out of the house, has dead drops, and knows how to work a mark.

"Dead drops"?  Are you talking about his porn stash?  I kinda laughed at that at first.  I was thinking Henry is so lame.  Pictures of women in lingerie and bikinis is pretty weak but then I remembered this was the 80's.  No internet porn and he's too young to buy a Hustler from the convenience store.

 

As for knowing "how to work a mark", did Henry go over Stan's house for some other reason than returning the videotape?

 

Did anyone find the post-confession phone call with Pastor Tim a bit... Strange? I am thinking Paige has some kind of relationship with him and wanted leverage on her parents so she could do whatever she wanted. The whole thing was just came off so odd and did not really address what we just saw.

 

I thought she planned to tell him her parents were spies ,but couldn't go through with it 

That's exactly how I saw it.

 

It's been closer to 24 hours.

 

You may be right about shock, but then WHY LEAVE HER ALONE ALL DAY? 

 

This one is really bugging me.

A show of good faith that they trust her.  A huge risk to be sure but I'm going to assume Philip is really good at reading people.  He seemed to have that same level of faith that Martha wouldn't turn him in either.

 

First of all, if the KGB is going to have their Illegals have kids, they better have a freaking SOP on how to answer Paige's question. A procedure that is not sketched on a napkin but developed in a real-life research institute and run through dozens of focus groups. Because there is no way these valuable agents should be put in a position where they have to improvise the answer.

I was thinking the same thing.  

 

As for improvisation, I thought they were going to say they were into the swinger lifestyle.  It's the kind of thing parents wouldn't want their kids knowing about and it would explain their late night disappearances.

Pastor Tim has become a surrogate father for Paige.  And from what I've seen, not in a bad way.  He is not trying to take the place of her parents.  He's trying to bring them all closer as a family.  

That may be true but he still comes off as self righteous and a bit smarmy.  Like a cross between an evangelical preacher and some recruiter for a pyramid scheme.

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree Maczero.  Pastor Tim has huge boundary issues.  I still want Philip to deal with him at the appropriate time.  Recall the one night Philip went to visit him?  Anyone with half a brain would tread lightly around Philip after that.  But, not this guy.  Somethings not right with him.

[lucindabelle]

To me Pastor Tim and that whole church were entirely discredited when they accepted money from Paige without verifying it was OK with the parents.

No reputable adult would do that. Pastor Tim sucks.

That said, I don't think he's actually a criminal, just sketchy.

[sistermagpie]

To me Pastor Tim and that whole church were entirely discredited when they accepted money from Paige without verifying it was OK with the parents.

No reputable adult would do that. Pastor Tim sucks.

That said, I don't think he's actually a criminal, just sketchy.

 

 

Exactly--it's such a huge red flag and it seems like he's repeated the same attitude every time we've seen them. I saw a comment about him that made me laugh once who said, "For a youth pastor he has a curious lack of respect for parents." He's just always sure he's right and if you don't agree yet he's nice enough to keep at it.

[teddysmom]

I was getting a creepy pre- pedophile vibe from Pastor Tim in the previews, I'm still wondering if that might be where they end up going with him.  It would kind of mirror the stuff Phillip is doing with Kimmy.  

[gwhh]

I Am sure Phillip is already in his mind trying to figure out how big the hole has to be that he needs to dig to fit Stan & pastor groovery hair into at the same time.

I got the feeling Paige did not think it was the truth UNTIL mom spoke in Russia to her. She rolled her eyes and told them to leave because at that point it was the real deal!

Did anyone else notice everything that Paige guessed at was true about her parents:

Are they in Witness Protection? ---In a reverse way!!

Did they kill someone?--Bunches of people! And you cant even say they were all bad (True Lies movie reference here!)

Were they drug dealers like their friend Gregory?--Only when needed for the mission

Is she adopted?--Only, if we go to jail or back to the USSR

Are they aliens?--Illegal aliens!!

Than the truth! No fun for Paige!

Edited April 5, 2015 by gwhh

[PinkRibbons]

I actually thought that Philip was going to tell Paige that if she told, he and Elizabeth would face execution, not just jail. I'm gonna assume he didn't say that because he a. didn't want to add that scare on to of everything and/or b. was afraid she'd take what he said as emotional manipulation.

 

Also, I know they left the phone off the hook to see if Paige would try to dial someone from her room, but I strongly suspect they have someone at the ol' fashioned KGB switchboard monitoring calls. I'll bet they even heard that call she made to Tim. Philip and Elizabeth would have been wise to put the phone-monitors on alert so for all we know, that's what they did.