S03.E17: Suicidal Tendencies

[Morrigan2575]

Another thing I kept wondering about: Why did Ray call Laurel Black Canary all of a sudden? Obviously, I know the external reason for it (because comics), but what's the reason for it in-universe? Did newspapers suddenly start calling her that and if so, why?

nope, it's all external and repeated often.

[wonderwall]

DEAR ARROW WRITERS:

 

[Actionmage]

I guess Roy and Ted were scooped up by Nyssa, who learned that while Oliver likes helper monkeys, he doesn't keep track of them or their other trainers too well. Then again, we haven't heard from Laurel one syllable about Ted, so?  Joe West is a staff writer for the show and thinks it's a secret to be kept?

 

(Sorry; the last sentence is a reference to The Flash, in case you don't watch that show too.)

Edited March 26, 2015 by Actionmage

[Guest]

Probably because he's got her wired. He knew so much shit about all of them and what they did that while I was creeped out, it was almost a relief that he wasn't just a creepy phone pinger and surveiller when it came to Felicity? What are my standards coming to?

 

OMG the rest of the episode was so bad I forgot about that. And people say he's not a stalker? WTF. 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, forgot to mention the Senator plot was really dumb

[blixie]

Everything was pretty terrible, except Roy and Laurel. Then Ray electrocuted poor Roy like he was Emperor Palpatine teaching Luke a lesson, and Oliver/Ray just peaced out on his passed out electrocuted ass. Way to hero you two assholes.

 

Oliver and Deadshot w/o a shirt was good. I guess.

[InsertWordHere]

ROY. WHO WE LIKE.

 

I am so disappointed with how that scene went down. 

Roy, who was responding to a fake 911 call made by Palmer. Roy, who was only there because he was trying to help save the lives of criminals being targeted by the fake Arrows. 

 

It's awfully convenient that Ray never came across a fake Arrow with his handy stolen (he said nice code and I know Felicity's a hacker and she stole it first but no do not like) facial recognition software. 

[Jediknight]

I don't blame her for wanting to get away from shady as fuck Amanda Waller...

I think she's just afraid Cupid would develop a thing for her.

[Enero]

The fact that they didn't even bother to show the audience that Roy was okay after being electrocuted by Ray while simultaneously hitting us over the head with how big of a hero Ray is shows that there is something very wrong with the editing and pacing of this show.

I was in and out of the room during the episode, but THIS so much! I could not believe that after Arrow handed Ray his ass, he appeared to have walked off the scene without checking on Roy and that we didn't get any follow up as to whether Roy ended up in the hospital or not for being nearly electrocuted to death. WHAT?!

I thoroughly enjoy Lila/Diggle. There relationship is how it's done on TV - very mature and committed to each other. They deserved more time for their wedding. Ray officiating, though thankfully brief, was more ridiculous than ever. It would've made more sense to have Deadshot officiate if the show just had to go with something "different" and "amusing."

I too was confused about Ray speaking at the press conference. I thought he'd become Mayor in one of the episodes I missed. It's even more baffling to learn that this was not the case. So basically they manufactured his involvement to create the drama with him going after Oliver/Arrow?

I missed all the Felicity/Ray scenes, except for the one at the end of the episode. Will need to rewatch the entire episode to grasp what happened with them. I will say Felicity seemed kind of weird in that last scene. I don't know if it was EBR's acting choices that were off or Felicity's mood for that scene, but her tone and actions did not read as Felicity.

I enjoyed all the Suicide Squad scenes, at least the ones that I saw. Sorry to see Deadshot go. I really enjoyed the character and thought there was a lot of potential there with Diggle and an ARGUS story.

Still have to watch the entire episode to form an overall opinion about the it.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Enero

[opus]

Oh, forgot to mention the Senator plot was really dumb

I know. The villain this ep was a psychotic Mitt Romney (or the failed presidential candidate of your choice).

[dtissagirl]

It helps when you remember Steven Culp's played shady politicians in about sixty-three different shows + Captain America: Winter Soldier. I just assume he's been re-elected over and over since The West Wing.

[Guest]

I'm so sad/mad…I'm smad that a Diggle episode was ruined by that man in a flying can. Diggle deserves better. Everyone deserves better. 

 

I'll stop moaning now. Sigh. Just had to rant.

[Morrigan2575]

It helps when you remember Steven Culp's played shady politicians in about sixty-three different shows + Captain America: Winter Soldier. I just assume he's been re-elected over and over since The West Wing.

I just remember him from JAG...shady CIA guy.

I knew he'd be evil when he showed up. But the whole I staged a kidnapping so I could play hero and become president was dumb.

However , there's an opening for him in Starling City...cushy gig (sort of)

Edited March 26, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Delphi]

I would have much preferred watching Rick Flag preside over the wedding rather than Ray. That's for sure.

I really wish Felicity had found a way to disable the suit that would have between much better.

[KenyaJ]

I missed all the Felicity/Ray scenes, except for the one at the end of the episode. Will need to rewatch the entire episode to grasp what happened with them. I will say Felicity seemed kind of weird in that last scene. I don't know if it was EBR's acting choices that were off or Felicity's mood for that scene, but her tone and actions did not read as Felicity.

 

I adore Emily, but I didn't enjoy her performance tonight -- unless she also believes Felicity is acting like a pod person. In that case, her acting choices were spot on.

[tennisgurl]

Just when I think Ray cant get any lower, someone on the show finds a shovel...

 

What the hell happened to poor Roy? 

[closer2fine]

I really wish Felicity had found a way to disable the suit that would have between much better.

I thought the same thing.  If a lot of it is Felicity's tech, she should've hacked the system.

 

Also, was she not on comms? Did she not hear Ray and Oliver decide who she should be with? Without asking her opinion?

[ketose]

There were all kinds of plotlines flying around tonight.

 

Deadshot's version of American Sniper.

Crooked Senator killing for career advancement. I think that was the plot of at least 2 Schwarzenegger films.

Disco Iron Man

Oh, and the imposter Arrow that was a throwback to Merlyn pretending to be Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

I was surprised she wasn't a little irritated/hurt to find out that the suit works and Ray didn't tell her?

Edited March 26, 2015 by stacey
Fixed quote box issue

[tennisgurl]

The line to start smacking Ray (and possible the writing staff) starts here...

 

Again, why do they think we care about freaking Ray than Roy? GOD I wish their names didn't sound so similar, its going to make my upcoming rants really hard to type out! 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Let me see if I understand. I'm blonde but not a genius blonde like Felicity.

Ray kept a secret from Felicity. Ray believes Felicity to be untrustworthy. Felicity apologizes.

Reason there is no room for you on Arrow.

Edited March 26, 2015 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[blixie]

 

I was surprised she wasn't a little irritated/hurt to find out that the suit works and Ray didn't tell her?

Which also factors into why she didn't tell Oliver I imagine, I'm sure was thinking whatever I'll cross that bridge when we come to it, oh WAIT we're not a "we" because you fucking didn't tell me you're suit worked asshole. Is that partners? As Joe Dick would say: That's not buddies. That's not friends. Much less life partner stuff RAY. Poor Brandon Routh I have never seen on single writer do right by him except Edgar Wright. 

[bethy]

I was surprised she wasn't a little irritated/hurt to find out that the suit works and Ray didn't tell her?

 

Right? She was all "Ray wants a partner!" but he hadn't told her the suit worked. What the hell? Someone already said it, but they have totally sacrificed Felicity for their stupid launch of the stupid Atom. 

[Scribbles]

Yuck.

 

 

Yup!

[GirlvsTV]

So, I have a question: Do you guys think the writers expected viewers to see/understand Ray's side?

I can see how on paper that could work. At least in the sense that while people might not be Team Ray, they'd still understand and have sympathy for his position. But the way it translated on screen left me pretty much thinking, "GTFO Ray! And never come back!"

Also, if they wanted Ray included in Starling City's govt. so badly, why not just make him the Mayor?

[Chaser]

I watched the episode after reading comments so I was expecting it to be much worse. Not to say it was good though.

 

Expected more from the wedding. We were basically spoiled on it. I'm glad we didn't see the flower toss, but it was kinda random no one else seemed to know Felicity caught the flowers.

 

I hate Ray. The first part of the episode he seemed totally evil/creepy. I seriously can't figure out his control on the city. Can't figure out Ray and Felicity either. On her side: he doesn't tell her about his suit (which she was instrumental in) and he doesn't trust her judgement/experience with Arrow. On his side: He doesn't trust her, knows she was working with the vigilante and knows she is has very strong feelings for said vigilante. Why are they dating? It doesn't make sense and whatever chemistry they may have is completely killed by this awful writing.

 

Oliver and Felicity. I didn't mind their scenes. A lot of truth being told and both were right in their own way. I was right about everything with Ray, no really being about Ray.

 

Felicity seems really lost to me right now. Like she knows what she wants but it keeps getting slapped away from her so she is just reaching and floundering.  I didn't see her so much as acting out of character, but as someone who is just really sad. I don't even know how to describe or if I could even put it into words. 

 

I'm so sick of her being a prop between these guys or for these guys.

[jay741982]

I haven't even watched yet and my hate of Ray increases. I'm so Goddamn tired of that Gary Stu. Fuck MG for Felicity noteven being mad that he hid the suit from her and him treating her like a ass. MG you suck so do your writers. I hope your Twitter is flamed with hatred from Felicity fans

[tennisgurl]

...how did we get here? What creative decisions lead up to this point? 

 

Go home writers, you are drunk. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by tennisgurl

[Actionmage]

Did the site tell the writers of Arrow that Dick Week was coming ( as it were) and they wrote this especially to celebrate? They shouldn't have. Really; they shouldn't have.

[bethy]

So, I have a question: Do you guys think the writers expected viewers to see/understand Ray's side?

 

 

I wondered this, too. Was I supposed to feel sympathy for Ray that he'd been "betrayed" by Felicity in some way and that he was right to not trust her? Because my reaction was yours - "Shut up, Ray." But that reaction started with the wedding, so....

[blixie]

 

So, I have a question: Do you guys think the writers expected viewers to see/understand Ray's side?

 

His side against Oliver? No. They measured their dicks and his came up short. Then the put their dicks away, after having decided what Felicity deserves, and let Roy steam in a corner. 

 

Were we supposed to think it was really awesome and ROMANTIC that he only forgave Felicity because Oliver humbled him? Yes.

Edited March 26, 2015 by blixie

[Guest]

 

Felicity seems really lost to me right now. Like she knows what she wants but it keeps getting slapped away from her so she is just reaching and floundering.  I didn't see her so much as acting out of character, but as someone who is just really sad. I don't even know how to describe or if I could even put it into words. 

 

I'm so sick of her being a prop between these guys or for these guys.

 

That's the only acceptable way to explain her character at the moment without wanting to throw things. I can accept her being at a complete loss but it's hard when they're selling Raylicity as this perfect relationship and a viable choice. It does not come across that way on screen at all. It's all so conflicting.

[BkWurm1]

Doing a post of first impressions before I catch up on all the posts.

 

Bumpy episode on a lot of fronts. 

 

While Diggle and Lyla were solid throughout,Lawton’s flashbacks were far too heavy handed. Horray, I’m home!  Aww, baby girl doesn’t know daddy.  Grr!  Eat your samich!  Ooh, I’m drinking beer!  PTSD!  PTSD! PTSD! And he’s now an assassin. And now he's dead.  Or is he?  He probably faked his death to get away from crazy Carrie.

 

Also pretty heavy handed was the idea that you can’t have a relationship and live the life of the vigilantes, I mean if Floyd Lawton believes it, it must be true!  Lyla and Diggle are in a different situation, they have a kid involved.  At least during the kids really vulnerable years they should be far more careful to keep at least one of them alive. 

 

Here's the thing that confused me - are we supposed to think Oliver change his mind?  Huh?  I mean he did the thing he kind of did with Barry where he tried to patch things up between them and sent him back to Felicity.  I don’t honestly know.  And what was Felicity thanking him for?  “Thanks for proving me right.”  About???  Last conversation was about her not believing he really wanted her to be happy. Confusion is never a sign of a good episode. 

 

Let me skip back to the wedding.   Felicity having caught the bouquet was extremely pointless—unless you think about it paired with MG trolling and then it makes perfect sense.  Add in Felicity really wanting to make her relatiohship work and MG's laid the foundation for a fandom wide freak out, lol.  I'm not biting. 

 
Poor Roy, back to bouncing off a fence again.

 

Laurel was not really annoying so that's good.  Ray was, so that's bad and he normally does not annoy me.  Sigh, I'll get into the meaty stuff later.  Suffice to say I'm suffering some whiplash after last week but I'm taking all in stride.  This is just them setting up Ray as a possible contender, just like they did last year in that episode where Oliver tried to push Sara away to keep her safe.  Didn't fall for it then, won't now. 
 

[roomtorome]

What happened to this show?  Used to be fun the first year - so boring now.  Oh well.  Another one off the list.

[closer2fine]

His side against Oliver? No. They measured their dicks and his came up short. Then the put their dicks away, after having decided what Felicity deserves, and let Roy steam in a corner. 

 

Were we supposed to think it was really awesome and ROMANTIC that he only forgave Felicity because Oliver humbled him? Yes.

 

Taking away Felicity's agency. They just decided who Felicity should be with.  INFURIATING.

 

I cannot get over the fact that Felicity went back to Ray. And I don't think Oliver did himself any favors here either.

 

Team Felicity 2K15. 

[Chaser]

I totally believe SA Ray-Hate is genuine now. 

 

Laurel works so much better away from the Arrow Cave, in limited doses and in the legal-liason role for Team Arrow. 

[apinknightmare]

And what was Felicity thanking him for?  “Thanks for proving me right.”  About???  Last conversation was about her not believing he really wanted her to be happy. Confusion is never a sign of a good episode. 

 

I thought she was thanking him about proving her right as far as her making her case for him to Ray. Otherwise, I don't know. And I don't know why she'd thank him because he didn't know she stuck up for him, did he? I can't remember, haha.

[tennisgurl]

My thoughts on Ray, can be described as such...

 

HE DOSEN`T EVEN GO HERE! 

[Password]

Here's the thing that confused me - are we supposed to think Oliver change his mind? Huh? I mean he did the thing he kind of did with Barry where he tried to patch things up between them and sent him back to Felicity. I don’t honestly know.

This is what confuses me. Oliver acts like Felicity chose Ray over him, when she blatantly said last week that he chose not to be with her. It's very frustrating because it's almost as if he did throw his hat and the ring and failed. Does he not realise what he did? Does he assume that because she didn't hang around that she was rejecting him? It's like he thinks he asked her to wait for him because he said "maybe not ever".

Confusion reigns.

[closer2fine]

This is what confuses me. Oliver acts like Felicity chose Ray over him, when she blatantly said last week that he chose not to be with her. It's very frustrating because it's almost as if he did throw his hat and the ring and failed. Does he not realise what he did? Does he assume that because she didn't hang around that she was rejecting him? It's like he thinks he asked her to wait for him because he said "maybe not ever".

Confusion reigns.

THIS RIGHT HERE.

 

Oliver NEVER gave Felicity the choice. He shut down and shut her out, while sort of keeping her on the line with I Love Yous and You Know How I Feel About Hers.

[apinknightmare]

^ Well Oliver did tell Felicity he chose not to be with her because he couldn't have his a private life and a life as a vigilante and that Ray was too new to realize that but it would be true for him too (sure, Jan), so I didn't get that he ever changed his mind. I thought maybe he was telling Ray that Felicity chose him so that Ray would think everything was above board on the feelings meter and he didn't have anything to worry about and therefore wouldn't pull away from Felicity? Or so Felicity would have Ray and therefore be happy a while longer? Maybe?

Edited March 26, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

One more thing, the final Deadshot flashback with HIVE. OMG! The dialogue was painful, I thought Boomerang had horrible puns but the stupid name dropping killed me

Drone

Organism

HIVE mind

Honeybee

That scene was painful.

[NoWayOut]

If anything, this episode shows how doomed the R/F relationship is. Felicity did not hesitate one bit when Ray asked if she has feelings for Oliver. She tried to cover up her slip but that "yes" slipped out so fast it was hilarious. They had a good opportunity to nip the R/F romance in the bud this episode but nah, plot says it isn't the right time.

 

Poor Roy praised the iron suit and then got electrocuted by it.

[closer2fine]

IThey had a good opportunity to nip the R/F romance in the bud this episode but nah, plot says it isn't the right time.

 

 

No, it's because the calendar says March and not May.  The thing is, them breaking up in this episode would've been legitimately believable.  But it's March 25th and not May 6th. (That's not a spoiler, just a date)

[InsertWordHere]

Taking away Felicity's agency. They just decided who Felicity should be with.  INFURIATING.

 

I understand the frustrations with this episode, but I fail to see how anyone decided who Felicity should be with or took away her agency. Felicity is already with Ray. It's not like they made some gentlemen's agreement that Oliver should stop pursuing her, because he hasn't been pursuing her for quite some time. If Felicity, knowing that Ray has betrayed her trust, electrocuted her friend, and formed a manhunt against a man she cares for deeply, still wants to be with him, it's not Oliver's place to stop her. As much as I don't care for Raylicity, any attempt by Oliver to influence either of them to end the relationship would have been much worse than what we got here, IMO. I may not like what she's doing with it, but Felicity's agency is still intact.

[GirlvsTV]

Why was it too dangerous for Roy to go with Oliver to face the LOA at the beginning of the episode, but not towards the end for Ray's fake 911 call?

I guess because someone had to get fried by Ray's lightening hands? Geez, seriously #PoorRoy2k15

Also, I totally lol'd at Oliver's line that went something like, "No Roy, this is the League. I'll handle this." So cheesy.

[tennisgurl]

 

Confusion reigns.

Ladies and Gentlemen....the tagline of this whole season! 

[paigow]

Where did the Senator go? He found a League of Assassins travel agent that got him stateside? Shouldn't Diggle be hunting the Senator? Or is Diggle going back on his word? Has Roy filled out his Obamacare documents? 

[Carrie Ann]

I haven't hated an episode this hard since 313. I can't even begin, because there was almost nothing I enjoyed. I liked seeing Diggle and Lyla being sweet together. I liked the bookends of cute Oliver/Diggle scenes. I liked Cupid and Deadshot. Laurel was pretty good.

 

I basically hated everything else. Every moment Felicity was on-screen, for example. I'm honestly flummoxed by what they are doing with her, in every capacity. She did the opposite of what I expected/wanted at every moment. Primarily:

 

Ray kept a secret from Felicity. Ray believes Felicity to be untrustworthy. Felicity apologizes.

 

Yep! And the dialogue could not have been worse. It was all tell, no show. I mean, Felicity said to Oliver, "You never wanted me to be with him!" all snide and bitter. Wow. WOWWWWWW. And then she ends the episode kissing his goddamn cheek. I mean. What is happening here.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

So, I have a question: Do you guys think the writers expected viewers to see/understand Ray's side?

I can see how on paper that could work. At least in the sense that while people might not be Team Ray, they'd still understand and have sympathy for his position. But the way it translated on screen left me pretty much thinking, "GTFO Ray! And never come back!"

 

He was right to be sort of vigilant in his pursuit of the Arrow at first, because well, he was not wrong in bringing up that Oliver did used to kill people, and if he'd taken that up again, well...you can't just go around killing criminals. So I'm not surprised nor do I blame him for wanting to bring him to justice if he thought he'd truly turned bad or whatever (the common sense fail though, it hurts. The hypocrisy for vigilante judgment also hurts, but whatever). Where he lost me was calling Felicity's loyalty and trustworthiness into question and then telling her that he never withheld anything from her, because LIES! UNTRUTHS! 

 

If Felicity had been able to talk some sense into him, I would've been okay with this whole thing, and they could've worked out their differences and I would've been comfortable with them ending things the way that they did. But the way it actually went down is a no for me.