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S01.E16: Rogue Time


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That cracked me up.  I was like umm, after dating for a couple of weeks, no it shouldn't.  You should be gald he's returning your calls at this point. So maybe she did go a little creeper just to push him. Wish they had made Iris and Linda friends and then the four of them hanging out had just started happening naturally.

 

Didn't like PL on Tomorrow People,  didn't like her on here.

I really hate how badly they've written Linda. 

 

I didn't like her on ATWT either. Everything I've seen her in she's been wooden and dead eyed.

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On further watch, I just love the super judgey look on Wells face when Barry brought the Weather Wizard in. Like "come ON Barry, we just talked about it! No messing with the fabric of space and time! Its, like, our one rule here"! 

 

Poor Barry. He couldn't have gone back in time to a day when he just hung around, watching Netflix, could he? 

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Wearing the wig was, I guess, so other people at the bar might not recognize her, as was icing over the license plate of the car. Once the Rogues had Cisco, they could monologue all they wanted.

 

It just seems weird to me that she'd wear a wig to disguise herself but then give out her real name.  Then again icing over the license place as opposed to just removing it seems kind of out there as well.  I guess the whole kidnapping seems kind of sloppy once one thinks about it hard enough.

 

I think Wells was just feeding him a bunch of bunk to try to scare Barry out of changing anything so that it wouldn't mess up his (Wells') plans.

 

 

I don't think so. Wells seemed to be a bit scared of Barry telling him about the alternate timeline. Likely because Wells didn't want to do anything that would affect this one.

 

Did anybody else notice Wells quickly cutting off Barry the first time Barry bought up his actions with Iris in the other timeline?

 

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Wells' speech about how how if you try to improve the timeline, "time" will find a way to do something even worse was annoying and unscientific. "Time" is not a thinking being that cares about good or bad.

 

They live in a universe where the impossible is possible, presumably that includes impossibilities like "Time" keeping a balance.

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Anyone else hoping that Pied Piper finds out about Captain Cold and decides to be their Dark Cisco building them better weapons... I'm hoping Captain Cold upgrades his weapon from a single direction gun to a frost wave attack method... Seriously how many villains know about Flash's super secret identity ?

Edited by wayne67
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well so far, captain cold, probs golden glider, heatwave, cisbro, wells, probs grodd, genral  Eiling and the late Tony. There's also that mugger he stripped.

Edited by Oscirus
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Didn't really care for this episode, for me it was colored by my lingering distaste over Wells being a no shades of grey villain. Such a waste of TC's nuanced acting.

 

Still hate the romance on this show. So awkward, predictable and overall bad. But at least there was a nice friendshippy Cisco/Caitlin scene. They are probably my favorite relationship on the show right now, mostly because they didn't have enough screen time together for the writers to ruin it.

 

So to all those people who were mad at Iris for finally being honest with herself, confessing her feelings for Barry, and being "disloyal" to Eddie, are you happy now that she rejected Barry and is choosing to stay faithful to a relationship that her heart is not truly in? Do you love her now?

 

Maybe it's high time for the people to start actually talking about the show and not fan reaction to Iris? I can understand mentioning it from time to time or maybe creating a different thread about it (like Once Upon A Time forum has, for example), it's getting really annoying. Feels like blaming the fans. People have a right to dislike characters without being preemptively bashed for it.

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That was a terrible episode. Cold and Hot and Goldie are just awful villains. Flash did to Goldie what he has always been able to do to Cold and Hot (but inexplicably hasn't) - used his speed to disarm her. Why he doesn't do that every time with Cold and Hot, who knows.

 

Then, what the hell was that deal in the woods with Cold? The bad guy won't expose Barry or go after Barry's friends or family because ... he prefers a one-on-one challenge with the Flash? How does that make any sense, especially given what Cold just did in that very episode to Cisco's brother? You would have to establish that Cold has a preculiar fixation on rules of warfare or something before you could even try that tactic. There was a faint air of respect between hero and villain to that scene, but very, very faint. And besides, the only leverage Flash has to make that work - "I will put you away" - only makes sense if Flash can actually do it and Cold knows Flash can do it - and we just spent another episode showing that Flash can't (or won't). None of that made any sense.

 

I can live with Barry acting out of character (as an ass, basically) because he thinks he knows the future. Even though the 13yo watching with us saw it and literally slapped his forehead and said, "Barry, that's not the way you do it."

 

And Eddie and Iris buy that Barry was psychologically damaged? With no evidence until now? A grudging OK, but far too neat.

 

The voice of the yellow Flash when he attached the newspaper guy sounded clear this time - and it didn't sound like Harrison. It kind of sounded like Barry's dad. Who I continue to believe knows something. he is way to complacent being in jail for something he allegedly didn't do.

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Oh, and about Cold (and the absolutely unneeded Heatwave) - god, that scene at the end with Barry letting him go despite knowing Barry's secret was all kinds of fucked up. First, this is a freaking villain! He killed people! He kidnapped your friend! He can cause you a lot of damage simply by releasing what he knows on the Internet - and that's not counting his super gun. You've imprisoned Peekaboo for far less! So much bullshit.

 

The voice of the yellow Flash when he attached the newspaper guy sounded clear this time - and it didn't sound like Harrison.

 

Yeah, I also thought that it sounded weird.

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Oh, and about Cold (and the absolutely unneeded Heatwave) - god, that scene at the end with Barry letting him go despite knowing Barry's secret was all kinds of fucked up. First, this is a freaking villain! He killed people! He kidnapped your friend! He can cause you a lot of damage simply by releasing what he knows on the Internet - and that's not counting his super gun. You've imprisoned Peekaboo for far less! So much bullshit.

Here were his options (with the assumption that the upload was not a bluff). 

 

Option 1 - Be like Wells and murder him. Barry's identity goes viral and his life, plus the lives of his family and friends, is totally different and almost certainly worse.   Option 2 - Toss Snart and his buddies in prison.  Barry's identity goes viral and his life, plus the lives of his family and friends, is totally different and almost certainly worse.

Option 3 - Do what Barry did while coaxing some small concessions.  Pray that Cold keeps his word and sticks to property damage and stealing only since Cold realizes that a dark Barry would easily kill him. 

 

Perhaps Barry should make sure his team wears a mask as well whenever they go out into the field with him.  Apparently Golden Glider wasn't able to figure out that Flash and Barry were the same even though she met both within 24 hours and he didn't vibrate his face or vocal cords.  A simple mask would do.

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Here were his options (with the assumption that the upload was not a bluff). 

 

Option 1 - Be like Wells and murder him. Barry's identity goes viral and his life, plus the lives of his family and friends, is totally different and almost certainly worse.   Option 2 - Toss Snart and his buddies in prison.  Barry's identity goes viral and his life, plus the lives of his family and friends, is totally different and almost certainly worse.

Option 3 - Do what Barry did while coaxing some small concessions.  Pray that Cold keeps his word and sticks to property damage and stealing only since Cold realizes that a dark Barry would easily kill him. 

 

 

Option 4: Put Cold on ice (sorry not sorry) while one of the 3 tech geniuses that Barry knows in Cisco/Wells/Felicity attempt to defuse the satellite uplink

 

Option 5: Realize that if what Cold says is true, that there's a decent chance that the satellite doohickey could go off and reveal his identity (if he's forgetful, if he's deliberately going to screw with Barry, if he randomly gets sick or in an accident) and act accordingly

 

Option 6: Adopt a new identity

 

Option 7: Beat the info about the uplink out of him. Not one I'd endorse, but it's there.

 

Option 8: Brainwash Cold into revealing the info.

 

Option 9: Downplay the significance of the release by using the old Flash trick of moving so fast that you appear to be in two places at once. 

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Terrible episode I don't care for the time travel.  I don't care to advance things so much and then put them back to where they were.  Never liked Iris and Eddie, in fact Eddie is bland and miscast in my opinion.  Joe continues to be awesome. I  am tired of being told how smart Barry is and then see him constantly do stupid things.  They also write the character as terribly immature.  On his dates with Linda she seemed more like his mother than his date.  As much as people complain about how poorly Iris is written, Barry is also written very poorly.  Right now, I saw more of a "grown up" man relationship being possible with Mason and Iris instead of either Eddie or Barry. 

 

I'm already tired of professor Wells. 

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I  am tired of being told how smart Barry is and then see him constantly do stupid things.  They also write the character as terribly immature.

 

I wouldn't mind it so much if people called him out on his bs, but no one seems to mind and Linda who torched Iris for the double date even had a kiss on the cheek for Barry. And now he gets a pass from both Iris and Eddie for being a douche earlier... It's infuriating stuff. It would've been satisfying to see Eddie throw a few more punches.

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Option 3 - Do what Barry did while coaxing some small concessions.  Pray that Cold keeps his word and sticks to property damage and stealing only since Cold realizes that a dark Barry would easily kill him.

 

If Barry wanted to follow this option which is still a pretty foolish one to follow. Then he can at least disarm the trio before letting them go.

 

I actually understood Barry's actions in relation to Iris. He was about to get everything he wanted so he wanted to push forward, ASAP.

 

What bothers me is that he felt the need to  interrupt her work with that nonsense. She missed vital information because he couldn't help himself and keep his declarations confined to a more suitable time. In a way, she faced more consequences from Barry's latest failed attempt then he did.

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When did Barry interrupt Iris's work oscirus? I missed the begginging but they seemed to have their conversation at the coffee shop.

I will say I'm not bothered by Barry telling iris he liked her for eddies sake. His timing was bad but the first time he was trying to give her the option/information before she took a huge step forward with her boyfriend so that might have been his only chance and it beats telling her before a wedding or never. This week the way he did it was obviously stupid and ineffective. I adore Eddie but I don't think Barry was required to step aside for him.

Now when they flirted on their double date and kissed last week that was definitely crossing the line.

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When did Barry interrupt Iris's work oscirus? I missed the begginging but they seemed to have their conversation at the coffee shop.

Literally moments after breaking up with Linda at CCPN, Barry went to Iris. This was when Mason was about to talk to her about how Wells was the last known person to see Simon Stagg alive. Barry stopped that conversation to ask Iris to coffee. As far as we saw, Iris never got to have the conversation with Mason about Stagg/Wells.

Edited by Chicago Redshirt
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Option 7: Beat the info about the uplink out of him. Not one I'd endorse, but it's there.

I can see how that would go.

 

Wells - Barry, clearly you can't talk Cold into submission.  You'll need to use more persuasive methods.

Barry - I refuse to torture/kill people.  On the other hand, I will let it slide if someone I like does it.  Maybe Ollie has some spare time.  Be right back.

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So I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like Cisco? I mean, I don't want him dead, but unless he's supposed to be some by genius and still a teenager, he does nothing for me. He looks and acts like a kid hanging with grown ups and he mostly annoys me.

 

As for the episode itself, I was a bit underwhelmed but did enjoy seeing Wentworth and Dominic again. And it's nice to see Peyton all grown up. When she first approached Barry and Cisco at the bar, all I could think is 'why is she wearing this AWFUL blonde wig???' I was glad when she took it off, to see that it was supposed to be an awful blonde wig lol! And boo to killing off Mason. I thought Roger Howarth had real potential on the show (and wistfully thought if he turned this into a permanent gig, he could get away from GH), so I was not pleased that Wells killed him :(

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So I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like Cisco? I mean, I don't want him dead, but unless he's supposed to be some by genius and still a teenager, he does nothing for me. He looks and acts like a kid hanging with grown ups and he mostly annoys me.

Nah I don't like Cisco either.I think on this show he annoys me more than his comic book persona. ITA that he looks and acts like a kid. His fanboy persona is more annoying than anything else and I dont buy him as a scientist at all. He's the comic book fanboy personified.And not even an interesting one like OG Reverse Flash.

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Nah I don't like Cisco either.I think on this show he annoys me more than his comic book persona. ITA that he looks and acts like a kid. His fanboy persona is more annoying than anything else and I dont buy him as a scientist at all. He's the comic book fanboy personified.And not even an interesting one like OG Reverse Flash.

 

Phew! So nice to know I'm not completely alone in my opinion! I mean, Caitlyn acts pretty young too sometimes, but at least she has some layers and can (when she wants) look and act like an adult. Cisco just looks and acts 15, and doesn't fit.

Edited by Sake614
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Shanna, ITA about Barry. In general I think they are all childish, which is one of the reasons I had a hard time getting into the show. Until this season, I thought the cast and stories of Arrow were much more mature. Now it's a toss up.

Edited by Sake614
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I didn't like Cisco in the trailer but I've grown to like him. I like his general enthusiasm for helping Barry and they've done a lot to humanize him. It also  took me a while to mature in my 20s too.

 

I was wondering at the end of last week why the Flash who traveled back in time was alone at happened to the Flash of the previous day. I'm still not clear on what happened, but time travel in TV and movies has always confused the hell out of me.

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Shanna, ITA about Barry. In general I think they are all childish, which is one of the reasons I had a hard time getting into the show. Until this season, I thought the cast and stories of Arrow were much more mature. Now it's a toss up.

I dislike Cisco too. I also dislike Caitlin. I do like Barry (mostly due to Gustin), but agree with you that all three characters are written as very immature. It doesn't help that all three actors (DP in particular) come off as very young in the way they carry themselves, but the writing for them is the worst part. I really can't see them as professionals.

Then there's Iris, who I actually feel wavers between feeling mature and not. There are definite issues with Iris' character, but I do think Candace Patton has more of a adult vibe than Barry/Caitlin/Cisco despite whatever weirdness the writing has her doing. Someone mentioned upthread about being able to picture Iris and Mason together as an couple and now I wish the show had gone that route. That could have been an interesting pairing and not nearly so high school romance.

Actually, the longer I watch this show, the less I like it. The characters seem to be written younger and dumber with each episode and the moral questions are rarely addressed and seem to be dealt with in a very simplistic manner when they are. It's frustrating, because there's a lot about the Flash that I found appealing initially and I still like the adult characters (Joe/Wells), but I feel like there's been either a decrease in quality or maybe just a shift to target a younger demographic more.

Edited by cynic
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 I like that Cisco invents stuff and I'll even give the writers props for creating a character that represents the audience and their supposed reactions to the things that Flash does.

However, a lot of the stuff he does works my last nerve.  First, as noted by Sakura, the meta -stuff. If you're going to do something like that, at least try to be subtle about it. Second, the self-pity. I get  that you don't like to mess up, hell, nobody does.  But at some point, you've got to stop with that.  Finally, I'm starting to get tired of the heroes and villains telling me how awesome and caring Cisco is. Stop overselling the character.

 

I remember in a previous post that I said that Caitlin offsets Cisco rather well, now that she's less serious, his annoyingness is ramped up by a lot since there's nobody to counter it.

 

I won't say that I don't like Cisco quite yet, but it's getting close.

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 I like that Cisco invents stuff and I'll even give the writers props for creating a character that represents the audience and their supposed reactions to the things that Flash does.

However, a lot of the stuff he does works my last nerve.  First, as noted by Sakura, the meta -stuff. If you're going to do something like that, at least try to be subtle about it. Second, the self-pity. I get  that you don't like to mess up, hell, nobody does.  But at some point, you've got to stop with that.  Finally, I'm starting to get tired of the heroes and villains telling me how awesome and caring Cisco is. Stop overselling the character.

I love Cisco, but I agree with a lot of this. They've really worked the self-esteem issues a lot in the second half of the season, and I think a lot of it was to try to offset Cisco seemingly not taking things seriously and try to give the comic relief some depth, but I think they've swung too far. Same for Barry not being as independent as he apparently is in the comics. My hope is that the writers are doing this so we can see the contrast when Team Flash steps up and really takes the reins as heroes once the truth about Wells is known. But if that's not what they're going for, then it's just annoying.

Edited by bettername2come
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Another thing about Cisco is that the show has used him to enable the villains too often in such a short time, like arming Cold (twice now) and allowing Piper to escape. It makes him look dumb.

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The funniest (and truest) thing I remember from this show was the Arrow crossover where Oliver meets everyone at Star labs. When Cisco started babbling, Oliver just shot him a WTF look that completely mirrored my feelings. I dunno, I just think that Cisco needs to grow up and stop acting like a teenager. A good place to start would be by dressing more professionally. You know, a haircut and a pair of khakis with a button down shirt? The t-shirts and jeans are not a good look for a grown man with a full time job.

I think Iris has the potential to be a good, adult character if they keep her in the newsroom setting. They made a mistake killing Mason because he really could have been a great mentor to her and maybe more. Barry just brings her down to his level and that's not a good thing. The only time Barry acts like an adult is when he's with Joe. I really enjoy their scenes together and their relationship.

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I dunno, I just think that Cisco needs to grow up and stop acting like a teenager. A good place to start would be by dressing more professionally. You know, a haircut and a pair of khakis with a button down shirt? The t-shirts and jeans are not a good look for a grown man with a full time job.

 

And stop making him openly lust after every girl in his age bracket not named Caitlin.

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They made a mistake killing Mason because he really could have been a great mentor to her and maybe more.

 

Im sorry he is dead but the guy was so obnoxious and mean. Couldnt stand him.

I hope Iris will get a new likable and actually helpful mentor.

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Im sorry he is dead but the guy was so obnoxious and mean. Couldnt stand him.

I hope Iris will get a new likable and actually helpful mentor.

 

I liked the actor, but I agree. Hopefully she can get a female mentor this time. 

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Im sorry he is dead but the guy was so obnoxious and mean. Couldnt stand him.

I hope Iris will get a new likable and actually helpful mentor.

i

I think he was sarcastic and maybe a bit condescending at first, but he seemed to be coming around znd wanted her to be a 'real' reporter. When she first came on board, no one took her seriously including the editor. He only offered her the job because of her connection to the Flash. Mason was trying to get her to use her brain and do some real investigative reporting.

And I FLove Roger Howarth and really wanted him to succeed in prime time.

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Yeah, I hated him in his first appearance, but he was better in recent episodes. I'm going to miss him, since Howarth was one of the better actors and worked well with Patton. I do hope that an older female character is introduced to work with Iris.

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I think he was sarcastic and maybe a bit condescending at first, but he seemed to be coming around znd wanted her to be a 'real' reporter... Mason was trying to get her to use her brain and do some real investigative reporting..

That was probably why I enjoyed him. I like that he was sarcastic and tried to steer her in the direction of actual journalism. Damn shame they cut him.

Also on the subject of maturity, he definitely felt like one of the few adults on this damn show.

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I always  saw him as meat anyway since his relationship with Iris mostly developed offscreen. Hell, the only reason he used her was because he needed her connection to her friends.

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Someone mentioned upthread about being able to picture Iris and Mason together as an couple and now I wish the show had gone that route. That could have been an interesting pairing and not nearly so high school romance.

 

Funnily, I've also had the same thought a few episodes ago. And even without a romance, they've killed him way too soon. I liked the character, he had attitude. He could have a nice platonic/mentor-mentee relationship with Iris, but now it's all moot.

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And stop making him openly lust after every girl in his age bracket not named Caitlin.

 

On another network, I'd probably go along with this, but the CW is prone to casting beautiful women, so it's not irrational for a young, single scientist to have those feelings--especially if he's projecting an attraction to Caitlin onto other women.

 

I liked how they handled the Linda Park/Barry breakup.  More generally, on balance, I was wondering if the timeline was actually "much worse"--a lot of it depends on if The Flash would have stopped the tsunami another way.  There's a good lesson there:  the timeline you live is often what you make of it, and "better"/"worse" depends on what we do.

 

 

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Wells kept on telling Barry to not change anything he did in the first timeline, but how could that happen without him ending up back in time again. Or was the tsunami was supposed to come and wipe out Central City?

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Yikes, I can't believe they're bringing Wentworth Miller and the other guy into the new spin-off. I'm not sure if they see what's going on, but their acting is so over the top, so stilted, so wooden and terrible, it's embarrassing. It's like "How am I watching this? How did a director let this happen?"

I can't stand it either. At least he's matching Purcell's horrendous acting.  At this point the outrageous overacting has to be a deliberate choice by the showrunner.

 

Also I love that conversation between Barry and Cold. Obviously I'm paraphrasing here.

Barry: Stop being evil

Cold:No

Barry: Stop robbing people

Cold: No

Barry: At least gtfo of this city

Cold: No

Barry: Don't kill anybody while you're robbing them?

Cold: I'll think about it.

Barry: k you can go but don't threaten my friends anymore pls

Cold: K

 

Hahaha!

 

Other thoughts:

 

Cisco was captured by the bad guys, given all the tech he needs, and instead of pulling a Tony Stark he just builds the guns for them?  Lamesauce.  And he couldn't sneak in a better failsafe than removing the firing pin?  Mannnnnn.  I mean seriously, either Snart is savvy enough to build the gun himself, in which case he doesn't need Cisco at all, or he's not, in which case I can't buy that he would know exactly how to recognize any intentional flaws Cisco built into the new one.

 

And even if he could, how the hell could he possibly know if Lisa's brand new gun had a trap???

 

Eddie punched Barry at work?  I mean, I guess cops can get away with anything in real life, but usually you don't see that so much in scripted media.  Also, they didn't exactly say, but did Barry actually get sucker-punched?  I hate to keep harping on this, but a guy who is literally faster than lightning (as we saw last ep) should be able to see any human-speed punch coming for hours.

 

Why did Barry grab Lisa and tell Snart to "drop the gun"?  Doesn't he have enough super-speed to disarm both?  I mean, he ran fast enough to travel back in time, you'd think he could do this.  It could even still have played out that Barry would have to back down because Cisco's a hostage, but...

 

Speaking of using superspeed to search for people, I guess he had some foreknowledge of where Mardon was, but he still had to figure out which particular room Mardon was in, which he did with superspeed, so... presumably he could have used that, or some Star Labs mumbo-jumbo to locate Cisco.  Find his cell phone or something.  Or just tail them, moving in zig-zags to tail them without being seen.  Or locate the zones of anomalous temperatures, the way they located Snart last time.

 

As for time travel, did he literally "quantum leap" back into his own body from a day before, instead of physically manifesting as a second Barry?  Why?

 

I also don't buy that the Flash Mob couldn't disable Snart's dead-man's-drop maneuver.

 

Mason uses a DESKTOP COMPUTER!!!!  That might actually be the least plausible thing in this entire episode. Outside of techie scenes (say, at Star Labs), I can't remember the last time anyone on TV used one.

 

Why is Barry so vehemently anti-killing but so sanguine about the Flash Mob's extrajudicial private prison?

 

If the actual Flash comics were written with a Flash who keeps forgetting that he's actually the fastest man on earth , this would never have become a famous enough property to bring to TV.

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Iris's blue dress was cute but she needs to not wear hooker boots to work because it's not appropriate.

 

Iris' boots aren't hooker boots though, they're only knee-high and high boots are popping up on runways these days. If Picture News is supposed to be ritzy she's probably expected to wear current high fashion. 

Edited by driedfruit
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I didn't think they were "hooker" boots either. They were over the knee, but they were flat-heeled. They're very current. I think whoever dresses Iris is doing a great job. She always looks pretty and fashionable. I covet a lot of her clothes, including those boots! (And I totally would wear those to work, though with a slightly longer, more loose-fitting dress. But then, I don't have a body like Candice Patton.)

Besides, hardly anyone on tv dresses like they would in real life. I actually kinda agreed with Hartley that Cisco dresses too casual for the office and he actually looked better in that scene (with a blazer on and his hair pulled back) than he normally does. But hey, its tv.

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I just draw the line at over the knee boots at work.

Cisco doesn't bother me (from a professional standpoint) because his office is hanging out with wells and Caitlin. Although Caitlin dresses up for some reason.

I know, it's tv. But sometimes something pulls out of that and screams 'inappropiriate' and iris has done it several times. Even if what she wears is cute.

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Cisco doesn't bother me (from a professional standpoint) because his office is hanging out with wells and Caitlin. Although Caitlin dresses up for some reason.

 

I have one friend who works in a lab, a few years older than Cisco, and she wears jeans and t-shirts to work, so while Cisco doesn't look particularly mature, it doesn't seem that odd, especially since he only works with Caitlin and Wells (who doesn't particularly dress up either).

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