S01.E11: S01.E11: Die But Once / S01.E12: Who I Am

[coloradoqt]

My! My!

Empire I cant wait until I see you again

These two hours moved as quickly as Jamal turned on his mother in favor of his Poppa! And surprise, surprise on me, Lucious is the sperm donor.

Remember Lucious has to have a scandal, what better scandal than he killed Uncle Vernon...somebody had to. Why would the feds arrest Lucious for killing Bunkie, you know there is a police department, the police chief called Lucious to advise him of the arrest of Bunkie's "killer".

2 fights in one hour, those were REAL fights. I'm still in shock...

[Rick Kitchen]

Nobody has mentioned that Hakeem reads Machiavelli.  Wow.

 

Yes, a full-on Dynasty-style catfight.

Why was Jamal so out of breath when he was rehearsing with the dancer and Cookie walked in?

[anonymiss]

The pace now is thoughtless and makes it hard to buy all of it. And all that extra sceen time exposed Jussie's weaknesses as an actor. And his dancing was even off beat.

Edited March 19, 2015 by anonymiss

[Rae Spellman]

Nobody has mentioned that Hakeem reads Machiavelli.  Wow.

 

 

Indeed. The fact Hakeem reads was shocking. And, he's already started a book that won't be released to the public for another couple of weeks. 

 

I'll never forgive Rhonda for killing Vernon. 

 

Lucious is an awful, awful, man. But, post-finale I'm horrified to find that I'm team Lucious!

 

Empire is more than Cookie's $400K and Andre's 14 hour work days. Yes, Lucious had help. But, plenty of talented people with $400K and dedicated, educated, worker bee children, don't build billion dollar empires. And, Cookie doing 17 years for Lucious, and leaving Jamal to be terrorized by him, is on her. She had other options. 

 

How does Rhonda think Andre is qualified to run a company whose (non-family) board members don't respect him? How could Cookie really think that a kid who allowed himself to videotaped peeing in restaurants a few months ago is ready to run a Fortune 500 company? Jamal ain't ready either. But, if Vernon had been allowed to live, his plan for him and Andre to teach Jamal what he need to know might have worked.

 

Why couldn't Andre and Hakeem find it in themselves to be at least a little happy for Jamal considering what he's been through with Lucious? 

 

 

[Artsda]

 

 

How does Rhonda think Andre is qualified to run a company whose (non-family) board members don't respect him? How could Cookie really think that a kid who allowed himself to videotaped peeing in restaurants a few months ago is ready to run a Fortune 500 company? Jamal ain't ready either. But, if Vernon had been allowed to live, his plan for him and Andre to teach Jamal what he need to know might have worked.

Why couldn't Andre and Hakeem find it in themselves to be at least a little happy for Jamal considering what he's been through with Lucious?

 

This! So much, all their behavior did was make me think they were asshole brothers. Andre just flipped out at work in an elevator and again in the conference room, he's not fit to lead. Hakeem as you said was acting like a spoiled brat in a restaurant and then urinated on the floor. Cookie thinks either of them should be involved in the business instead of Jamal?

Then she says "she got him." She doesn't have Jamal, she has Cookie and the others with this hostile takeover. Turning against family and partnering up with enemies. All because Jamal was the most stable and normal out of everyone to be the heir. Lucious made the smarted choice picking Jamal.

[Dusty]

 

I'll never forgive Rhonda for killing Vernon.

 

It's not like she meant to kill Vernon.  She walked in on him beating the crap out of her husband.  She probably doesn't watch as much tv as I do and doesn't know that candlesticks will for sure kill someone with like one hit.  I'm sad that Vernon is gone but there have been people on this show that have legit killed people on purpose.  Lucious and Cookie for example. I wouldn't put it past Vernon having done something before either being the "fixer" that he was.  Not to mention Lucious would've totally killed Vernon as soon as he thought of him as a threat.

 

 

Cookie thinks either of them should be involved in the business instead of Jamal?

 

Jamal knows what about business though?  He's been living off his dad's money and hasn't worked a day in his life.  As far as we know all he has is a high school education.  It takes more than being able to sing and write lyrics to run a business. Especially the size of Empire.  I can see how Lucious and Vernon learned about the business as they built it up with help along the way but Jamal has been through none of that.  Did he even have a job when he went on his "I'm a MAN" journey for two seconds?  Honestly, I don't want any of the brothers to solely run Empire.  For me, the ideal situation would be Cookie and sons against Lucious but there is just no way I can be Team Lucious.  I'm actually disappointed in Jamal on how quickly he was brainwashed by Lucious.  Lucious doesn't deserve the loyalty of any of his family members or really anyone.  He has none himself.

[CofCinci]

Question. Why is this show set in NYC if they film in Chicago? Why not set it in Chicago or film in NYC?

Lee is filling in Chicago to make it easy for Oprah, once she decides to guest star. He's most likely employing people who worked for her studio as well. Once Oprah appears, they'll leave Chicago for Toronto or Vancouver or LA.

[peridot]

I was talking to some co-workers and they had a good point--did Anika and Hakeem actually sleep together or did they just set it up for Lucious to walk in on them looking like they were hooking up? Even the next scene of the two of them they were talking business and he was working out and she was dressed and Hakeem told Cookie (I think) that nothing was going on with him and Anika. 

 

Or did they miss something and I forgot and there was something more in that second scene?

 

There was a third scene (maybe while Jennifer was singing at the church) where they were lying in bed together, side by side.

[kpw801]

What was that funny word Black Rambo kept calling Jamal - batiman?  What is that?

[wanderingstar]

Tricky's grandson was hilariously awful.

 

 

Hearing the name Tricky in this episode made me think of this. And then this. Because yeah, I'm old.

[Grace19]

Suprisingly, these last two episodes are my least favourites. Cookie and Hakeem should go and start their own company, and take empire down.

That rap battle with jamal was aweful and was not needed, just another way to show us that the gay one is badass. It was an unbelievable scene.

I wish the show didnt spend all that time on jamal, he is not the most interesting character.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

What was that funny word Black Rambo kept calling Jamal - batiman?  What is that?

A Jamaican slang/derogatory term for a gay man.

[Grace19]

I love to hate Loucious, TH is doing a great job.

So what will happen next season? I have a feeling that Jamal will be as ruthless as his father, Hakeem out from under his father's influence will blow up and come in into his own. Can't wait. But i still want jamal, hakeem and Andre to still love each other. Loucious should have left his company to the three of them.

[Malbec]

I'm actually disappointed in Jamal on how quickly he was brainwashed by Lucious.  Lucious doesn't deserve the loyalty of any of his family members or really anyone.  He has none himself.

 

Yeah, same.  I think it's great that Jamal fulfilled his oath to take Empire, but his flip to Team Lucious was really fast.  It kind of makes sense to me -- like, the lure of the fatherly approval he'd always wanted was too powerful to resist -- but I wish it had been developed more.  Things like dangling Beretti over the balcony and the tension with Andre and Hakeem just came and went so fast.

 

At the moment, I'm sort of Team Hakeem?  I can't believe I'm saying that but at the  moment, his motive of pure spite toward Lucious is currently the one I'm most sympathetic toward, lol.  And as for Andre, isn't it something how Lucious is all over him for bringing "that white woman into my house" but as soon as he senses Andre has something going with Jennifer Hudson, Lucious openly sabotages it.  I don't exactly feel sorry for Andre (he's such a jerk to Jamal at this point) but I do think in some ways he gets the worst of it from Lucious.  Even with Jamal, for all Lucious' homophobia there seems to be a glimmer of respect underneath.  But I don't think Andre even gets that much.

[CofCinci]

I wish the show didnt spend all that time on jamal, he is not the most interesting character.

There was barely any Hakeem in the second hour, outside of the reveal that he reads.  He started the series out as my least favorite character, but I noticed the neglect to his character in the finale and realized that he is growing on me.  I look forward to seeing more growth in Hakeem in the second season.

[Queena]

I love Cookie, but she overplayed her hand. She pissed off Lucious before she had papers in hand. I'm team Jamal, therefore, I'm team Lucious. I always saw the danger in Jamal, he's his Father's son. Hakeem is more of a poser, Andre is caught up in his feelings of being left out, and Jamal has been told by Lucious to act tough all of his life. The balcony move did surprise me though. She could've owned Empire if she had played her cards a bit closer to her chest. Backing some wack ass rapper to take over Empire? No Cookie, no! I'm so glad Derek and his stupid ass part in the middle of his fugly hairdo is gone. What a way to ruin a handsome face.

Hakeem and Anika shocked me. I never thought either would stoop so low. Jamal should be madder than him after the events of last episode.

Andre, damn son, you sure found and lost God fast. Don't play like that. You know you were sniffing after JHud. Now you're funny mouthed wife done (on purpose) killed Vernon! Uncle Vernon! All he wanted to do was talk, and you had to fight the man! I just want to know, 1. Is Vernon dead? 2. Where's the body?

Hakeem, why are you so mad? Ohh, because of Camilla? I agree with your Dad, she isn't right for you. I don't agree that he has the right to tell you who is and isn't right for you. Speaking of right for you...Anika...NO! HELL NO!

I'm old school hip-hop, I squee when I see Snoop. I love it when he freestyles. Has Titan ever rapped? He got out of jail for free, and has never spit a bar! Hakeem's freestyle left me shocked.

Use your inside voice when you are speaking to Becky! Tyvm!

Jamal/Jussie It's a damn shame I've been deprived of this man's talent all of these years. He's cute, can sing, and not bad on the eyes. I enjoy watching him. I'm loving watching him work with his father.

I'm hoping that this will be a new and improved Lucious. Because I loved the shit out of Lucious this episode. He was winning at every.single.turn. Giving Cookie the pillow was epic. That's another instance of Cookie not being on point. I do give my girl kudos for not snitching. I loved Lucious not having ALS, loved his laugh, loved his gift giving, and really loved his laugh at the end of the episode.

I like Cookie, but as I stated above, she's not as smart as she thinks. She was made a fool in almost every instance. You're always supposed to do your homework. She's working with Andre, after he played her? She overplayed too damn fast. Plain and simple. Now she's teaming up with Anika, Hakeem, and Andre afagainst Jamal and Lucious. She will lose, and I hope that she does.

I haven't known nothing since Y2K...Lulu!

Oh Porsha.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Queena

[Neurochick]

Tax breaks. Not sure why they didn't set the show in Chicago other than the fact that we aren't known as a mecca for hip hop/rap companies.

 

Interesting.  I always thought NYC had great tax breaks, that was started by Bloomberg, I believe.  

 

Back to the show:

 

I love Cookie, but she overplayed her hand. She pissed off Lucious before she had papers in hand. I'm team Jamal, therefore, I'm team Lucious. I always saw the danger in Jamal, he's his Father's son. Hakeem is more of a poser, Andre is caught up in his feelings of being left out, and Jamal has been told by Lucious to act tough all of his life.

 

 

I agree.  She did overplay her hand.  But I wasn't surprised at Jamal though, remember Cookie backed him to run Empire, and I think that's been in his head since.  Jamal is smart, he told Hakeem that even though Lucious had done nasty stuff to him, marrying him off and then Lucious getting Jamal's wife pregnant, he could still work with him.  That's somebody who knows how to play the long game, someone who sees the big picture.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Neurochick

[aprilbabe]

I love Cookie, but she overplayed her hand. She pissed off Lucious before she had papers in hand. I'm team Jamal, therefore, I'm team Lucious. I always saw the danger in Jamal, he's his Father's son. Hakeem is more of a poser, Andre is caught up in his feelings of being left out, and Jamal has been told by Lucious to act tough all of his life. The balcony move did surprise me though. She could've owned Empire if she had played her cards a bit closer to her chest. Backing some wack ass rapper to take over Empire? No Cookie, no! I'm so glad Derek and his stupid ass part in the middle of his fugly hairdo is gone. What a way to ruin a handsome face

 

 

Right the IPO was only a week away? Cookie should've have played it cool with Lucious until she had her shares. And Malcolm was a great big bore and the love scene wasnt that hot. I think he just disappeared. So same with the Oliva/Lola story what was the point?

Hakeem, why are you so mad? Ohh, because of Camilla? I agree with your Dad, she isn't right for you. I don't agree that he has the right to tell you who is and isn't right for you. Speaking of right for you...Anika...NO! HELL NO!

 

Right, and he should be equally be mad at Cookie. While Lucious did the dirty work, Cookie was behind him. I don't buy that the fact that Camilla didn't take the money, makes a difference in whether Cookie wanted Camilla gone. That scene didn't ring true to me. Why would she be upset that Lucious lied about that, either way she's gone which is what she wanted.

 

I'm hoping that this will be a new and improved Lucious. Because I loved the shit out of Lucious this episode. He was winning at every.single.turn. Giving Cookie the pillow was epic. That's another instance of Cookie not being on point. I do give my girl kudos for not snitching. I loved Lucious not having ALS, loved his laugh, loved his gift giving, and really loved his laugh at the end of the episode.

I like Cookie, but as I stated above, she's not as smart as she thinks. She was made a fool in almost every instance. You're always supposed to do your homework. She's working with Andre, after he played her? She overplayed too damn fast. Plain and simple. Now she's teaming up with Anika, Hakeem, and Andre afagainst Jamal and Lucious. She will lose, and I hope that she does.

 

Is it bad that Im kinda rooting for Lucious?? He mad now, and is about to reck havoc. Scene I'm looking forward to is when he comes home to the house Cookie is now living in, I have a feeling that will be hilarious. Maybe they'll be roomates. LOL. I find it interesting that Cookie still holds on the picture of them as a family and it includes Lucious. Also that she was still at Lucious house when the doctor was there and sent him away. Was she checking up on him? Despite all her words if Lucious was dying, he wasn't gonna die alone. Because she would've taken care of him.

Edited March 19, 2015 by aprilbabe

[Syndicate]

The plotting has gotten a bit nonsensical during the last 3 or 4 episodes.  I have faith that the writers will take a breather during the hiatus and just slow... the eff.... DOWN.  I mean, it's getting to the point where you can't walk out of the room to take a pee break and you come back to find out that Cookie and/or Lucious is on the outs with one of the kids allofasudden, or there's been some other random hookup out of left field.   It is... dare I say... just getting a wee bit silly.

 

Delicious characters, great situations, and the writers spend all of 5 minutes exploring each one.  This has to stop next season.  Don't lose the fast-paced outrageous soap qualities, sure, but this isn't writing - it's just throwing the characters into a blender. 

THANK YOU!  This entire post sums it up for me.  It's disappointing to recognize the great potential of this show, only to have the writers not tapping into that potential.

[MyAimIsTrue]

While I much prefered the first hour to the second really all I have to say is DAMN, that's how you do a season finale!

[Grace19]

Hakeem is no poser, he is good just that his dad tried to control him. He is out from under him, so lets see what he will do next season. Ironic that hakeem was not easy for loucious to, "make in his image", but jamal who have always "been his own man" was so easily manipulated by loucious.

[SimoneS]

I found the way he got Lucious's masters back completely ridiculous; very reminiscent of the old rumor that Suge Knight dangled Vanllla Ice over a balcony.

 

I loved Jamal grabbing Baretti and threatening to through him over the balcony. I thought that because it was riffed off the Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice incident that it was believable. Of course, Suge is huge man compared to Jussi.

 

 

Jamal knows what about business though?  He's been living off his dad's money and hasn't worked a day in his life.  As far as we know all he has is a high school education.  It takes more than being able to sing and write lyrics to run a business. Especially the size of Empire.  I can see how Lucious and Vernon learned about the business as they built it up with help along the way but Jamal has been through none of that.  Did he even have a job when he went on his "I'm a MAN" journey for two seconds?  Honestly, I don't want any of the brothers to solely run Empire.  For me, the ideal situation would be Cookie and sons against Lucious but there is just no way I can be Team Lucious.  I'm actually disappointed in Jamal on how quickly he was brainwashed by Lucious.  Lucious doesn't deserve the loyalty of any of his family members or really anyone.  He has none himself.

 

I think that all the brothers know a lot about the business based on what we have seen so far. Andre is into the business side, while Jamal and Hakeem seem to know a lot about the contracts and recruiting and developing talent. The problem is that only one person can run the company and of three sons, Jamal is the best choice. Besides, it is not like Lucious is handing over Empire to Jamal this very minute. He is grooming and mentoring him to run Empire eventually, maybe 10 to 20 years. By then Jamal will be more than qualified to run Empire. It is a viable succession plan that would instill confidence in the shareholders and board of directors. I wish that Andre and Hakeem could live with this, but clearly they cannot so there will continue to be power plays until Jamal eventually morphs into Lucious and starts smacking them down. As for Cookie, no matter which of her sons end up with the company, she will always have a place there. Lucious is her real enemy.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SimoneS

[kpw801]

I love Cookie, but she overplayed her hand. She pissed off Lucious before she had papers in hand.

Yeah. Cookie never seems to do her homework. I didn't understand her murderous rage over the killing of a cousin? I can understand being upset about being lied to. But - and I am not condoning murder at all - it would be understandable for someone to take it to that level to avenge perhaps the murder of a child or a spouse or a parent - but Cousin Bunkie? Come on! He didn't even know she had gotten out of jail. So, obviously Bunkie was not that close to her. You gonna sneak up on a sick drugged up man and try to suffocate him in his sleep because of some babbling in a dream? We know he killed Bunkie but for all she knows he could be having a reaction to drugs!

[kpw801]

Why did Cookie attack Anika? Because of Hakeem? Because it made no sense if they were fighting over Lucious.

They hated each other and Cookie said to Anika why shouldn't I throw this drink in your face and then Anika said something like because you would be on the floor B*tch.  So Cookie threw the drink in her face and tried to walk out but while she was on her way out the door Anika grabbed her by the weave and it was on!

Right the IPO was only a week away? Cookie should've have played it cool with Lucious until she had her shares. And Malcolm was a great big bore and the love scene wasnt that hot. I think he just disappeared. So same with the Oliva/Lola story what was the point?

Right, and he should be equally be mad at Cookie. While Lucious did the dirty work, Cookie was behind him. I don't buy that the fact that Camilla didn't take the money, makes a difference in whether Cookie wanted Camilla gone. That scene didn't ring true to me. Why would she be upset that Lucious lied about that, either way she's gone which is what she wanted.

Is it bad that Im kinda rooting for Lucious?? He mad now, and is about to reck havoc. Scene I'm looking forward to is when he comes home to the house Cookie is now living in, I have a feeling that will be hilarious. Maybe they'll be roomates. LOL. I find it interesting that Cookie still holds on the picture of them as a family and it includes Lucious.

 

I noticed that too.  They went from that photo on the piano to the shot of the long haunted looking jail hallway reminding of when Cookie singing "You're So Beautiful" with that photo on the wall in jail alone.

 

Also that she was still at Lucious house when the doctor was there and sent him away. Was she checking up on him? Despite all her words if Lucious was dying, he wasn't gonna die alone. Because she would've taken care of him.

It's not like she meant to kill Vernon.  She walked in on him beating the crap out of her husband.  She probably doesn't watch as much tv as I do and doesn't know that candlesticks will for sure kill someone with like one hit.  I'm sad that Vernon is gone but there have been people on this show that have legit killed people on purpose.  Lucious and Cookie for example. I wouldn't put it past Vernon having done something before either being the "fixer" that he was.  Not to mention Lucious would've totally killed Vernon as soon as he thought of him as a threat.

 

 

Jamal knows what about business though?  He's been living off his dad's money and hasn't worked a day in his life.  As far as we know all he has is a high school education.  It takes more than being able to sing and write lyrics to run a business. Especially the size of Empire.  I can see how Lucious and Vernon - What kind of job did Vernon actually have?  Is Vernon an attorney?

 

 

learned about the business as they built it up with help along the way but Jamal has been through none of that.  Did he even have a job when he went on his "I'm a MAN" journey for two seconds?  Honestly, I don't want any of the brothers to solely run Empire.  For me, the ideal situation would be Cookie and sons against Lucious but there is just no way I can be Team Lucious.  I'm actually disappointed in Jamal on how quickly he was brainwashed by Lucious.  Lucious doesn't deserve the loyalty of any of his family members or really anyone.  He has none himself.

It's not like she meant to kill Vernon.  She walked in on him beating the crap out of her husband.  She probably doesn't watch as much tv as I do and doesn't know that candlesticks will for sure kill someone with like one hit.  I'm sad that Vernon is gone but there have been people on this show that have legit killed people on purpose.  Lucious and Cookie for example. I wouldn't put it past Vernon having done something before either being the "fixer" that he was.  Not to mention Lucious would've totally killed Vernon as soon as he thought of him as a threat.

 

 

Jamal knows what about business though?  He's been living off his dad's money and hasn't worked a day in his life.  As far as we know all he has is a high school education.  It takes more than being able to sing and write lyrics to run a business. Especially the size of Empire.  I can see how Lucious and Vernon - What kind of job did Vernon actually have?  Is Vernon an attorney?

 

 

learned about the business as they built it up with help along the way but Jamal has been through none of that.  Did he even have a job when he went on his "I'm a MAN" journey for two seconds?  Honestly, I don't want any of the brothers to solely run Empire.  For me, the ideal situation would be Cookie and sons against Lucious but there is just no way I can be Team Lucious.  I'm actually disappointed in Jamal on how quickly he was brainwashed by Lucious.  Lucious doesn't deserve the loyalty of any of his family members or really anyone.  He has none himself.

[lonestar]

Hearing the name Tricky in this episode made me think of this. And then this. Because yeah, I'm old.

 

Mine's even older.  Since getting my Roku, watched a lot of really old tv series from England.  There was a show, All Creatures Great and Small from the late 70s early 80s, and the rich lady has a pampered pomeranian named Trickie.  All I could think of was this little dog.

[Milz]

It's not like she meant to kill Vernon.  She walked in on him beating the crap out of her husband.  She probably doesn't watch as much tv as I do and doesn't know that candlesticks will for sure kill someone with like one hit.

 

 

She probably never played Clue as a youngster either.

 

Anyhow, my head is still spinning. Talk about sensory overload! But it sort of confirms my suspicions that Lee Daniels and Danny Strong intentionally rushed the season in case it was cancelled after the first several episodes and gave it a type of closure for the core fan base.

 

So.....

 

Hakeem: I felt sorry for him. In the first episode, Cookie beats him with a broom for disrespecting her. Now, Lucious punches him out for disrespecting him. Message: Hakeem needs to begin respecting people in order to avoid another beating. Hakeem + Anika = yuck! Plain nasty.

 

Anika: Catfight with Cookie probably ranks up there with the Alexis-Krystal cat fight in Dynasty.  Loved how Andre looked frustrated pulling Cookie off and holding her back.

 

Andre: Did he stop taking his meds again? He became almost as violent during the Vernon fight as he did during his mental breakdown at Empire. Anyhow, I agree with the poster upthread who said Andre should have shut up long enough for Vernon to tell him he was on their Team, not Lucious.

 

Vernon: I hope you aren't dead, but recuperating in some secret medical facility that Andre and Rhonda got you too in the nick of time. (Come on, this IS a soap. If Pam Ewing can dream Bobby's death, Andre can dream Vernon's)

 

Rhonda: So she left Andre because he didn't take her to church with him???????????????????? And now she's pregnant.  Note to Andre: get a DNA test ASAP because with your practice of whoring out your wife to make business deals, there's no telling who the father is.

 

Jamal: I tagged you as the Cordelia of Lucious' King Lear. I would hate for you to become Lucious 2.0. PS, I've wanted someone to hang Judd Nelson over a ledge ever since I saw him in The Breakfast Club.  I just kept picturing it was Molly Ringwald and not you holding him over the edge. Good actor, but I've never liked the characters he's played.

 

Cookie: Good decision staying with the family rather than going to DC with Malcolm. Malcolm's love at second sight thing just seemed to creepy to me. Anyhow, I hope you've kept in contact with your jail friends because you'll need protection once Lucious gets out.

 

Lucious: I know you'll blame Cookie and you'll blame Andre (because, let's face it, you don't think Hakeem is smart enough to think of a hostile takeover by himself). Oh yeah, and you've officially made my top 10 TV Big Baddies list. I can't wait until next season. Anyhow, it was interesting to see that Cookie was not only his music producer but also his music partner, helping him through writer's block. I wonder if Lucious created a  large song catalog during the Cookie years and just used the unpublished ones when he started Empire?

 

Cheesiest moment: Jamal and Lucious go back to their old apartment. Not only is the electricity still on, but it's so well preserved that the furniture, the pictures on the wall, the three metal trash cans, etc. are as non-dusty as they were in the flashbacks. (It doesn't look like the house Carol lived in when Cookie visited her in an earlier episode.)

 

Wow moment: Watching Terrance Howard finger pick the guitar. None of that flat picking chord stuff most people do today.

 

Becky and Portia: They need to do a special episode centered around them.

 

PS Bring back Lola.

[lonestar]

Also, did Rhonda sleep with that old man in the wheelchair?  Could she be pregnant by him!  Barf, Barf!

[Malbec]

I think Rhonda puked before she could get anywhere with the old man in the wheelchair, so hopefully he's out as a candidate.

[aprilbabe]

 

 

Cookie: Good decision staying with the family rather than going to DC with Malcolm. Malcolm's love at second sight thing just seemed to creepy to me. Anyhow, I hope you've kept in contact with your jail friends because you'll need protection once Lucious gets out.

 

 

Right, Slow your roll homie. While Cookie liked the attention he gave her and was attracted to him. I don't think she had real fellings for him, which is why she didn't go with him, thanked him for the weekend and kept it moving.

 

Cheesiest moment: Jamal and Lucious go back to their old apartment. Not only is the electricity still on, but it's so well preserved that the furniture, the pictures on the wall, the three metal trash cans, etc. are as non-dusty as they were in the flashbacks. (It doesn't look like the house Carol lived in when Cookie visited her in an earlier episode.

According the empire writers twitter its Carol's house. Which she still lives in.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Cookie needs to meet Ray Donovan, they both like to make use of pool tables.

 

While handing out ass whuppins.

[Milz]

According the empire writers twitter its Carol's house. Which she still lives in.

 

Then  I guess they entered through the back door because that most definitely did not look like the house Cookie went to.

 

But if Carol still does live there, it's a Lucious Lyon: The Early Years Museum and, hey, she should think about selling some of that stuff at Sotheby's or Christie's. The keyboard where Lucious Lyon composed his early hits would have a lot of collectors interested---especially since he's in jail for murder.

[Primetimer]

Judging by the finale, this may be the only good season we're gonna get.

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[TobinAlbers]

That finale was written so well it could've been a series finale with just a few changes to key scenes; all the storylines had been wrapped up with call backs to the pilot and everyone was technically in a place to be happy (had they gone in that direction); Lucious in jail; Cookie in charge and moved into the mansion; Andre and Rhonda expecting a baby; Jamal running Empire. Instead of Rhonda killing Vernon you'd switch it to Vernon and Andre and Hakeem working with Jamal to run Empire with the final scene not of Lucious calling game time but stewing and alone and rotting in prison.

 

Instead with just a little tweaking here and there, a satisfying series finale became a OMFG powder keg set up for S2. It's really quite genius.

 

The fun thing is since this is what you'd have expected the finale to be, it's obvious not gonna be that. Jamal isn't going to be the heir; Cookie isn't going to get her mansion, and Lucious isn't going to prison. Lucious is probably gonna be dead, dead, dead by the end.

 

I'm dating myself but I would LOVE if some time in early in S2, Steven Carrington, President of Carrington Global (Because Steven took Denver-Carrington to international heights under his stewardship) sends a bottle of congratulatory champagne to Jamal with the note ' I know what it took to get there. Congrats on claiming your empire. Enjoy your success.' 

 

It'd be total Dynasty fanservice but it really would be awesome to have as a kind of respect and passing of the torch from one crazy primetime show to another.

 

But if Jack Coleman were willing to appear in a cameo? Say, exiting Jamal's office after discussing his being an investor in the company? That would rock.

[wanderingstar]

Forgot to add that I found it oh so delicious that Jamal and Ryan had sex on the big desk in Lucious' office. So perfect.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Is it just me, or Bunky started looking like a zombie from TWD while haunting Lucifer?

[Badsamaritan]

That finale was written so well it could've been a series finale with just a few changes to key scenes; all the storylines had been wrapped up with call backs to the pilot and everyone was technically in a place to be happy (had they gone in that direction); Lucious in jail; Cookie in charge and moved into the mansion; Andre and Rhonda expecting a baby; Jamal running Empire. Instead of Rhonda killing Vernon you'd switch it to Vernon and Andre and Hakeem working with Jamal to run Empire with the final scene not of Lucious calling game time but stewing and alone and rotting in prison.

Instead with just a little tweaking here and there, a satisfying series finale became a OMFG powder keg set up for S2. It's really quite genius.

The fun thing is since this is what you'd have expected the finale to be, it's obvious not gonna be that. Jamal isn't going to be the heir; Cookie isn't going to get her mansion, and Lucious isn't going to prison. Lucious is probably gonna be dead, dead, dead by the end.

I'm dating myself but I would LOVE if some time in early in S2, Steven Carrington, President of Carrington Global (Because Steven took Denver-Carrington to international heights under his stewardship) sends a bottle of congratulatory champagne to Jamal with the note ' I know what it took to get there. Congrats on claiming your empire. Enjoy your success.'

It'd be total Dynasty fanservice but it really would be awesome to have as a kind of respect and passing of the torch from one crazy primetime show to another.

But if Jack Coleman were willing to appear in a cameo? Say, exiting Jamal's office after discussing his being an investor in the company? That would rock.

OMG Jack Coleman as Rhonda's dad, y'all! FTW!

[TVHappy9463]

Did they get the second season pick up while they were still in production?  Because the pace of the reveals and plot point pivots came off like a show that didn't think there where getting a season 2.  The other issue is these where two separate episodes and had they been aired a week apart it wouldn't have seemed like TOOOOOO much, it was overkill. 

That said, as long as you keep the source material in mind ( Shakespeare/Dynasty) then all of this makes sense. The betrayals, the "sleep-dream" reveal. I am a bit concerned that the second season will falter, but what show doesn't have a sophomore slump. As long as the network doesn't screw with Danny and Lee I am confident in the creative forces to keep this ship on track.  

So many great moments, Jamal's rap battle with Black Rambo, Dre realizing he can't escape, Luscious teaching the age old lesson about money, fame and power.  Hakeem and Anika, damn Boo Boo Kitty.  Cookie telling Jamal no matter what happens between and her and Luscious she always has him.  Basically everything Taraji, she is amazing.

 

Emmy nominations are in July, can't wait to see if the show and actors get any.  I suggest everyone familiarize yourself with the Emmy process its a bit wonky, and explains why the same folks get nominated and win year over year.  Level set your expectations.  

[Queena]

Interesting. I always thought NYC had great tax breaks, that was started by Bloomberg, I believe.

Back to the show:

I agree. She did overplay her hand. But I wasn't surprised at Jamal though, remember Cookie backed him to run Empire, and I think that's been in his head since. Jamal is smart, he told Hakeem that even though Lucious had done nasty stuff to him, marrying him off and then Lucious getting Jamal's wife pregnant, he could still work with him. That's somebody who knows how to play the long game, someone who sees the big picture.

I agree, that's why I don't understand why Cookie isn't supporting him. It makes no sense.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Indeed. The fact Hakeem reads was shocking. And, he's already started a book that won't be released to the public for another couple of weeks. 

 

I'll never forgive Rhonda for killing Vernon.

 

BWAHAAAAAAAA!!!  the shade though.   I lightweight hate your ass for continuing to Zapruder-study this show's timeline.  Let Empire LIVE gurl!  lol.

 

She sure did get weaponed up real smooth though didn't she?  Dusty you are laying me out with these candlestick assessments.  I'm right there with you though, I haven't watched a soap since Luke and Laura nem, but as soon as she picked it up, I said bye Malik! lol.   I started ticking off the time and got annoyed at the two of them so busy cooing at each other, hadn't nobody noticed Uncle Vern ain't made n'air one sound in about 7 seconds.  Girl did you see them cheesing and shit at the ultrasound as though they aren't co-conspirators to a homicide?   King Lear my ass, this bish here is Gruoch Macbeth.

 

Who mentioned the fight scene where Andre and Vern two piecing each other one minute and Vern said I didn't come here to fight all normal voice like? ^5!   That thing there made me belly laugh!! 

 

I'm old school hip-hop, I squee when I see Snoop. I love it when he freestyles. Has Titan ever rapped? He got out of jail for free, and has never spit a bar! Hakeem's freestyle left me shocked.

 

Hey Class of '98 I see you!  :D  In my alternate if you could be anything else life, I'm Spinderella for a living.  Which brings me to: the rap battle was whack.org, mainly because in the show's intent for us to bat for Jamal, they made Black Rambo so hideously untalented that we'd have no choice but to love the result, gospel offerings and all.  Despite that, I still love that Jussie's delivery forced me to listen to the words, even though battles like that are supposed to be original lyrics that display your off the top intellect, but it's whatever, I'll get my fix somewhere else.  It's just tough going from hearing a Snoop to a "rapper" who can't even stay on 2 and 4.   #ChristopherWallaceforever

I'm dating myself but I would LOVE if some time in early in S2, Steven Carrington, President of Carrington Global (Because Steven took Denver-Carrington to international heights under his stewardship) sends a bottle of congratulatory champagne to Jamal with the note ' I know what it took to get there. Congrats on claiming your empire. Enjoy your success.' 

 

No you didn't go here!!  Lol, I heart this!

 

When Cookie started sweeping up around Hakeem?  I see you Empire, you play too much.

 

before I forget, this must be said out loud:  Baby? Ms. Patricia LaBelle is 70. years. old. {{dropsmic}}

 

The best part of this show is coming here and not being able to get enough of ya'll grassy knoll your way through these plots.   See you next season!!

[EyesGlazed]

I also don't get why Cookie isn't supporting Jamal.  It seems like he was and is her favorite child.  Perhaps she sees him turning into Luciferous and doesn't like it?

 

The thing about BBK:  until she drugged Elle, I had sympathy for her.  She hadn't done anything wrong up to then, she fell in love with a divorced man, and Cookie was awful to her from the get-go.  Now my sympathy is coming back and I was kinda rooting for her during the catfight.

 

Just bought the Empire sound track and I LOVE it.

 

The only thing missing from this finale was Lola.  I want her back.  Taking this over to the "Second Season Wish List" thread.

Edited March 19, 2015 by EyesGlazed

[Vixenstud]

 

"Game time bitches."

 

 

Terrance Howard was amazing tonight. He played Lucious as the devil incarnate. The laughing when he found out that he did not have ALS as scary as hell.

TH was definitely the MVP for tonight’s eppies, from finding out that Cookie got a lil’ nookie to finding out he wasn’t dying to his anger at being double-crossed by his family.  He was very J.R.-like. 

 

 

The scene of Jamal and Lucious at their old house while they fought and then sang together was brilliant. So amazing a scene.

That track was on fiyah! and might have to be my new stripper performing song for Mr. Stud.

 

“Who’s Boo-Boo Kitty now, BITCH?!”  Anika saying that to Cookie during their epic fight had me howling.

 

For a second before Rhonda boing-yoing-yoinged Vernon upside the side during his fight with Andre I thought he was going to die but then I said ‘nah, they wouldn’t do that’…my bad!  Bitch hit him till his blood flowed like wine.

 

 

I'm Spinderella for a living.

Aw yeah-aw yeah!  (Puts on leopard Stymie hat, raps Expression)

 

How has Jamal let power get to him so quickly?  I saw someone that’s wanting to make changes for the right reasons, what has he done where ‘it is going to his head’?

 

Buh-bye, Derek Luke….and please get rid of that fuckin’ part in your head!

 

See ya'll crazy cats when the new season starts.

(Gives a falsetto 'Bitch!', drops mic)

Edited March 19, 2015 by Vixenstud

[ExplainItAgain]

"What kinda black girl is named Becky?"

"My mom's white."

 

I was crying laughing.

 

I was so hoping they were going to go the Black-ish route: "Her real name is Beckeisha."

[MizStaken]

Did they release the TH/JS version of that song they did together? All I could find was the Jamal version.

Does Terrence really play guitar? I remember him playing in The Best Man movies but didn't know if that was really him. If it is real, he's pretty damn good.

I'm gonna have to re watch cuz I know I missed a few things.

[Milz]

When Cookie started sweeping up around Hakeem?  I see you Empire, you play too much.

 

 

When she was sweeping around him, I kept thinking "Don't say something stupid, Hakeem, because Cookie's armed with a broom and you know she knows how to use it!"

 

I also don't get why Cookie isn't supporting Jamal.  It seems like he was and is her favorite child.  Perhaps she sees him turning into Luciferous and doesn't like it?

 

I think Cookie doesn't have any favorites with her sons. But I do think she supports whoever is the underdog until the underdog becomes the equal dog or over dog. In other words, I think she wants her sons to be treated fairly and equally. That Jamal was given Empire rather than each of them in charge of a portion of the company where their individual skills shine irks her. Each of them has 1 quality of Lucious: business, song writing, and performance (my hope is that Hakeem is Cookie Jr.---a producer rather than performer/writer).

 

Editing to add because it's something I've want to write all season but forget to do it.

 

Rhonda resembles Kelly Ripa so much I keep expecting Regis Philbin to pop up at any moment.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Milz

[VLove]

Off the cuff...

 

Clearly there was too much going on and my brain was reeling because I have no idea why the fight between Uncle Vernon and Andre started... (tho, I sure know how it ended!)

 

I knew, from jump, that Lucious wasn't going to have ALS.  I just don't know enough about diseases to know what they were going to pass his illness off as.

 

Boo Boo Kitty and Hakeem really disturbed me.  I know he has mommy issues, and I assume she is younger than Lucious but STILL.  It was creepy.  And the worst part is that at some point Lucious will forgive his son but Boo Boo Kitty will always be slut shamed because society.

 

I had to mute the Lucious/Jamal song.  There is only so much musical Terrance Howard I can take.
 

The rap battle.  I'm sorry, but was it implied that Jamal won?  Man, GTFOH.  Regardless of how bad Black Rambo was (and he was horrible), Jamal truly took a knife to a gunfight.  For half a second I thought he was going to rap and was prepared to see the emergence of new skill to add to his arsenal, but... no.  That's kinda where I threw up my hands and was like, this show don't give not nary a shit about anything.

 

Finally... I might be the LEAST ambitious person on the planet but if I were either Jamal or Hakeem WHY THE HELL WOULD I WANT TO RUN EMPIRE?  They are just barely becoming the artists they can be.  How musically creative can they be if they are running around trying to run a company the size of Empire.  Why not just run it as a triumvirate? (not sure if thats the right word, but you know what I mean.)

 

And have we paternity tested Lola, yet?  This is still important to me!!!

Edited March 19, 2015 by VLove

[BestestAuntEver]

Hakeem: I felt sorry for him. In the first episode, Cookie beats him with a broom for disrespecting her. Now, Lucious punches him out for disrespecting him. Message: Hakeem needs to begin respecting people in order to avoid another beating.

 

 

Ha, I thought the same thing. That boy better learn some respect because his parents aren't afraid to beat his ass.

 

Wow moment: Watching Terrance Howard finger pick the guitar. None of that flat picking chord stuff most people do today

 

 

Fans self... I rewound that shit 3 times. Wooo, my mind went to what beautiful things he could do with those fingers.

 

TobinAlbers, I agree with your post. I think they went ahead and threw everything into the finale because they didn't have a clue, if they would make it past the first season. The main belief by reviewers was the show wouldn't make.

 

There was alot during the episodes but damn, if I din't love every freaking minute. I can't wait for the shows return.

 

ETA:

Does Terrence really play guitar? I remember him playing in The Best Man movies but didn't know if that was really him. If it is real, he's pretty damn good.

 

 

He actually does play.

Edited March 19, 2015 by BestestAuntEver

[Gigi43]

One of my biggest problems since the first episode wasn't even addressed last night, and it better be in season 2 now that one of the boys are actually in control. Andre, even with his education, is 28/29, and he's the oldest. They are too young to run the company, especially if they don't have a qualified puppetmaster of sorts. Andre with Vernon I could have accepted since, like I said, puppet master... Vern could go into certain meetings for him ect. Lucious is all "white people don't accept black people fully" to Andre a few episodes back, yet, it hasn't occurred to him middle aged/old people of all races will likely have trouble accepting doing business with  a 20-something running the show (who are black on top of very young)? Who only got the position because of being the son of the original CEO. Hakeem... forget it, he's a teenager. He walks into a meeting and half the room should make up their mind immediately not to partner with a teenager.  None of them have earned it, or are qualified. Next season I don't want to see Jamal failing because he's not Lucious, or just because of his personality.... I want to see him struggle to be accepted by the business world because he's barely old enough to drink (and has never set foot inside a college class, as far as we know.)  Yet I have a bad feeling it's going to be about his sexuality and the fact that he just isn't Andre, or too much like Lucious... or anything other than what I am talking about, being his obstacles.

[funkopop]

What type of an artist was Lucious?  In the beginning of the series they portrayed him as this hard core rapper but whenever the boys pay homage to him through one of his old songs its this mellow R&B sound.  I remember that ridiculous hip hop music video they showed of Lucious getting pulled over by the cops and the Kid FoFo episode where Cookie referenced him being street and all that.  I guess Lucious could have grown as an artist but I found that a little weird. 

[LydiaMoon1]

WHAT A FINALE! That had so much WHOA! The whole while I was watching, I kept hearing the voice of The Waterboy’s mom in my head saying, “Lucious Lyons is the debil!”

 

Oh, Lucious (or should I call you Dwight?), why are you such a manipulative, egomaniacal azz? As soon as that nurse said that double-vision wasn’t a symptom of ALS, I knew they’d find a way to back out of giving you a terminal disease. Oh, well. There’s always silver bullets and a gun.

Man, there were so many good moments in this Finale:

 

Cookie’s face as she watched Lew wipe ‘Cookie Lyons Presents’ from the marquee.  Wow!  Such a metaphor for their whole relationship.  She conceives it, puts it together, lays the foundation and does all of the groundwork, only to have Lew erase her in the end and take all the credit for the finished product. Cookie, when will you learn?

 

Jamal and Lucious’ song collaboration was a fascinating look inside the process of making music, and Jussie Smollett displayed some of his best singing of the series during Jamal’s battle with Black Rambo.

 

Interesting that Rhonda is okay with role-playing Andre’s infidelities and with him offering her as a party favor to his clients, but his bonding with another woman over his spiritual awakening makes her walk out.  And yeah, yeah, emotional affair, blah blah, intimacy, blah blah blah.  It’s still very curious.

 

Cookie and Annika threw down.  So did Vernon and Andre.  In case you didn’t get the message, Old School ain’t nothing to be played with, especially when they’re OG.

 

So Vernon and Bunkie were brothers?  Wow.  No wonder Vernon went back to drugs and to the FBI after finding out Lew murdered him.  I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Vernon though. I fully expect him to pop up next season when we least expect it.  At least, I hope so.  Let’s form a prayer circle for Vernon, just in case.

 

I never would have guessed that this season would end with Jamal siding with Lucious and Cookie and Annika being on the same team. I’m on the Anti-Lew team, regardless.

 

I also don't get why Cookie isn't supporting Jamal.  It seems like he was and is her favorite child.  Perhaps she sees him turning into Luciferous and doesn't like it?

Once Jamal chose to side with Lucifer, Cookie has no choice but to fight Jamal if she wants to stay involved in Empire. Jamal became Lew’s second-in-command, and Lew commanded that Cookie get kicked out of the company. Cookie came back for her sons, yes, but she also came to take back her place at Empire.  Jamal is now standing in the way of that. I think her ‘I still got you” speech to Jamal onstage was her way of telling him that she still loves him even though they’re on opposite sides.  But, they ARE on opposite sides.

 

 

Watch out, Jamal.  Your Daddy’s not grooming you, he’s using you to toughen up Hakeem and mold him in his image.  As soon as he uses you up, he’s going to drop you just like he did your Mama.  Mark my words.  Besides, as long as that vampire is alive, no one’s going to run Empire but him.

 

And for the bad:

 

While I continue to love the musical selections, I can do without multiple songs by Jamal.  He’s great in doses, but his strained, watery vocals get hard for me to take on repeat. I hope they add a few more regular vocalists next year and spread the songs around rather than rely on an endless stream of guest vocalists to get through their episodes.  The guests become distracting without adding anything to the narrative.

 

Speaking of hard to take, was Black Rambo supposed to be good?  ‘Cause…..nah.  Now I admit, I’m old school. I came up during rap’s golden age when the music was more about partying and awareness but I thought Black Rambo was AWFUL! First of all, he did more talking than rapping.  Second, did he even rhyme?  Third, he was nowhere near a beat. Is that what passes for rap now? ‘Cause, uh, I got more enjoyment listening to Tricky’s no-talent grandson.

 

J Hud.  Look, imma just admit it. I just don’t like her on Empire.  I thought she brought down the energy of every scene she was in.  I don’t like her acting.  I didn’t enjoy her holler/singing.  <sigh> I hope we’ve seen the last of Michelle.

Edited March 19, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[angelita100]

I didn't like Jennifer Hudson on this show (and I have loved me some Jennifer since Idol).  I know some think Lola or Malcom was unnecessary but I think Jennifer was the unncessary character and I hope we are done with her. 

 

Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the season.  I think it was created more like a mini series but I have faith they will still speed along more slowly and carefully next season.  This is the show that finally works for my soap opera loving soul. I have missed them since I went cold turkey 8 years ago. I just hope it doesn't go the way of Revenge, the show that I thought would fill that empty place.

 

Terrence Howard did his thang on the finale. He was the star IMO. This show wouldn't work without him. And this show completely surprised me by having cookie and anika form an alliance.  Love hakeem..and that started somewhere mid season.  I think they did the deed but it was just to hurt daddy. I don't think it will go any further. Looking forward to next season.