S30.E04: S30.E04: Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner / S03.E05: We're Finally Playing Some Survivor

[Jersey Guy 87]

Yeah, I felt like Jenn and Hali slipped over to the Mean Girl side of the line for me. I was on their side for the Nina situation, but then you create the exact same dynamic in a day with two new people?

 

To quote Justified, "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

 

I think Nina got what she deserved as well - she forgot one of the most important rules of Survivor.  If the rest of your tribe is not like you it is up to you to adapt to them, not expect them to adapt to you. Nina made herself an outcast on the tribe and for that she deserved to go home.  Nina would make herself an outcast on any tribe she belonged to, she is not cut out for Survivor.

 

As for Shirin and Max, given that Shirin had already pissed off everyone (except Max) on the WC tribe it appears she may be the asshole.  Telling everybody about the monkey sex she witnessed, singing songs loudly (and poorly), walking around without pants (something neither men nor women should do on Survivor), discussing her bowel movements in detail, it goes on and on.  Shirin has seemingly gone out of her way to annoy people, being called on it hardly makes Jenn and Hali mean girls.

 

I thought this was a great two hours of Survivor. Rodney is so clueless about what he is saying that I am not sure anyone could get through to him why it was so offensive. I like Sierra, but she needs to get over being Miss Pissy Pants and find people she can get along with. I disagree with anyone who says Dan knows how to read people - he's terrible at it. He claimed he knew how to mollify Sierra and then went over and did the exact opposite of that which was, "You hurt my feelings too!" Wha-huh? And I think she was absolutely right to say that its completely different when its YOUR NAME on the ballot.

 

 

Dan's attempt to get Sierra back on their side was unintentional comedy gold.  I think even Rodney could have done a better job than Dan.

[needschocolate]

What would I do if I was Carolyn? --- My new tribe is made up of 3 from my former tribe, three from No collar, and one Blue Collar - Kelly.  Kelly was the swing vote.  I would wait a bit to see how things play out (Carolyn didn't "flip" right away).  I would have noticed that the 3 No Collars weren't flipping, and that Max and Shirin annoyed everyone.  Shirin is telling me that Kelly is with us, but I think that Shirin is kind of out there mentally and, unlike the two Survivor Experts, I know that people often lie, just to get you to leave them alone.  

 

Kelly hasn't said anything bad about her former tribe, so I would assume she probably has an alliance with them.  So, I would figure that Kelly is really going to side with the former No Collars and vote off the White Collars.  And I am on the minority alliance, and, if we don't merge for a while, I am toast.  I don't like Max and Shirin anyway and am not in an alliance with them, but with other White Collars now on a different tribe (my tribe would have dumped Max or Shirin next if there hadn't been a switch).  

 

So I will join the former No Collars. Between my White Collar Alliance, my new alliance with Kelly and the No Collars (sounds like a 1950's singing group), we could have a majority if we merge in the next few days.  

 

Plus, I have an idol.

[fishcakes]

I think part of Carolyn's reasoning in turning on Max and Shirin had to do with Kelly. The editing in the episode made it look like Kelly swung over to the WCs simply because Shirin talked to her first, but there are a couple of unaired scenes that show that Kelly was pretty annoyed with both Max and Shirin along with everyone else. From Carolyn's perspective, it may have seemed that Kelly's vote against a NC was not so certain. So if it looks like the WCs are going to end up getting mini-Pagonged before the merge, then Carolyn's best bet is jump ship now, try to work her way into a new alliance or at least pick up a floater, and hope Tyler and Joaquin also survive to the merge. If she doesn't, she stands a pretty good chance of being voted out herself before the merge, since in the other seasons that started with three tribes, All-Stars merged at 9 people, Philippines and Cagayan at 11. With the flip, I think she's put herself ahead of Kelly, albeit only slightly, in the new tribe. She might still get voted out before the merge, but at least she has a little bit of room to maneuver now.

 

ETA Or, what needschocolate just said. Damn my slow typing.

Edited March 23, 2015 by fishcakes

[Miss Scarlet]

I get what posters are saying about Jenn's snarky tendencies and I'm sort of conflicted as to whether I think they're funny or not. I have been around people who will not stop talking and it is extremely irritating. I had to take a day-trip with someone like that once and almost died from their non-stop blathering. My thoughts were pretty much in line with the things Jenn was saying in this episode. And I'm not on Survivor where I have to live with these people and hear it 24/7. I thought Jenn's horse race confessional was kind of funny.

 

On the other hand, I don't think that Shirin seemed that annoying. I can't stand when people talk incessantly because they're being self-promotional, but I think in her case it's just genuine excitement of the game. I don't think she does it to brag and she's not a mean or unsupportive person. But the main issue I have is that Jenn seems like someone whose default is to be irritated by everyone and think everyone sucks and roll her eyes at everything everyone says, except for a few special "chosen ones" (Joe and Hali). It seems like she wouldn't like anyone who was excited or happy about anything (except for maybe surfing) and like she uses this to create in-group/out-group dynamics where she can then complain about the "annoying" people all the time and strengthen her friendships or whatever. Being around people like can be really hard because they just hate on everything you do and say. I remember in one of her pre-show videos she talked about how she doesn't like to be friends with girls and prefers to be around guys. She's probably the type that thinks girls are too catty for her, without realizing that the reason she has problems being friends with them (besides Hali apparently) is because she's the catty one.

 

I also think she's really hypocritical. Like she thinks her complaining about killing the chickens was totally fine and legitimate because she did it, but you know if Shirin was the one doing that we would have gotten several confessionals of "she suuuucks", *faceplam*. The other thing is besides her horse-racing confessional I don't think her commentary about anything has been particularly funny or insightful or interesting. It's just "they are, like, so annoying" and "uuuuggh" and *facepalm*. It doesn't really add anything. It can come off as kind of bratty or like a moody teenager sometimes. 

 

And yes, Carolyn and others have mentioned that Shirin and Max are annoying. To me, Carolyn seems humourless and uptight and Jenn comes off that way too (unless, like I said, she's the one making the joke, in which case it's hilariouuuus). But the difference is that it feels more hypocritical when Jenn does it because she's all "oooh I'm such a laid-back, free-spirited No Collar". If she really was like that then she wouldn't get so annoyed by Shirin and feel the need to bash her all the time. She would get annoyed, sure, but it would roll off her back more easily or she would try to be more accepting. Jenn is very judgmental and I'm not sure labelling her as a No Collar is a good fit. I think in this case, she's someone who probably just finished their undergrad degree and whose parents still pay for everything for her. That's why she can afford to have no job and no responsibilities and claim to be a No Collar. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by wudpixie

[AZChristian]

I forgot about Will, so there are 5 people in the alliance now, not 4.  But I believe that Will might be #5 in that alliance because he's not much help in the challenges. 

 

The main point I was trying to make is that loyalties in Survivor are fluid.  Alliances sometimes don't last the entire length of one episode, so there's no guarantee of where someone is in the pecking order.  Being #3 of 3 doesn't count (IMHO) as much as being #5 of 5 . . . because 5 outnumbers 3 (for as long as either alliance lasts).

 

One thing for sure - it's impossible to predict WHAT is going to happen next on Survivor.  Always has been, always will be.

[Eggman]

As much as I loathed the manly men session of Women's Problems that the Blue Collar dudes alliance was running, one of them was smart enough to figure out a vote split that would accomplish their goal.

 

I actually think this was a hugely stupid thing to do.  Unless you're fairly certain that the bootee has an HII, all the split vote really did was to fracture their alliance.   Better to take the slim risk of bounce-back than trim your number from 4 to 3.

[LadyChatts]

That's the one thing that is keeping my interest piqued, is the prospective alliance aspects and group dynamics.  If this turns into another season where it becomes predictable with boots and the guys end up taking out (or almost taking out) the girls, then yeah, I don't care what awesome twists or awesome moves they pull, it'll still suck for me.  Fortunately, the ladies are my saving grace.  And I'd be perfectly happy with them taking out the guys.  Watching them actually play and strategize and make moves is far more interesting to think about than Dan following Mike's every word and move, or Rodney jumping sides every week he finds a new bro or uses his tattoo to charm the remaining people out there that have been lucky not to be graced by his presence.  I don't know much about Joaquin, Tyler, and Joe's game yet.  And Will's just sort of there, but he's non threatening in the challenges, and Jenn/Hali need his vote to keep their majority.  So even if he totally bombs this week, he's not going anywhere.

 

On the former WC tribe, while I thought it was a red herring Shirin would get the boot for being annoying when that tribe was still together, I had no idea that Tyler/Joaquin/Carolyn were so tight and gunning for Max/Shirin.  On Nagarote, while there's the trio of Jenn/Hali/Joe, I always felt Joe was the 3rd wheel in that group.  Now with the tribe swap, who knows if he'll go back to his old alliance or not.  Will and Shirin are both in interesting positions, as I believe Will will get by for a few weeks and then wind up being some key swing vote that changes the game.  Shirin obviously doesn't have any allies left and nothing to lose, which makes her another possible swing vote.  Sierra seems done with her tribe, but Kelly may go back to them, especially since Esece-blue may merge with the majority (though something tells me they won't have it for long).  And Rodney has gone from being with the girls and hating Dan/Mike, to being with Dan/Mike and gunning for the girls, and now he's got his bromance with Joaquin on the horizon so he may head off in yet another direction.  Then there's Tyler and Joe.  With at least one (if not more) episode until the merge, who knows how things will shift since we'll be seeing more people voted out.  If Carolyn gets too confident, and she lets it slip that she's tight with Tyler and Joaquin, she may very well find herself following Max.  I really can't see the former blue collar tribe losing before the merge, unfortunately, but hopefully I'm proven wrong.  At the very least, we've seen underdogs and the minority alliances prevail before.  That's what I'm hoping for this season, for my favorites to stay in it as long as possible, and for some good moves.

Edited March 23, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Jersey Guy 87]

I actually think this was a hugely stupid thing to do.  Unless you're fairly certain that the bootee has an HII, all the split vote really did was to fracture their alliance.   Better to take the slim risk of bounce-back than trim your number from 4 to 3.

 

Blue Collar was already split 4-2 - the three dudes plus Kelly versus Lindsey and Sierra.  The four split their votes against Lindsey and Sierra.  Yes, Sierra was pissed after the vote but she was going to be on the outs no matter what happened.  So splitting the vote had no effect on the actual alliance because Sierra wasn't part of it.

[Calamity Jane]

I forgot about Will, so there are 5 people in the alliance now, not 4.  But I believe that Will might be #5 in that alliance because he's not much help in the challenges. 

 

The main point I was trying to make is that loyalties in Survivor are fluid.  Alliances sometimes don't last the entire length of one episode, so there's no guarantee of where someone is in the pecking order.  Being #3 of 3 doesn't count (IMHO) as much as being #5 of 5 . . . because 5 outnumbers 3 (for as long as either alliance lasts).

 

One thing for sure - it's impossible to predict WHAT is going to happen next on Survivor.  Always has been, always will be.

And that's why I still watch!  You think you know it inside and out, and then, boom!  Something crazy happens.  

[Porkchop]

When Carolyn asked Joaquin why he voted for her, he replied "Max said I should." That was enough to start Carolyn thinking that Max was not the ally she thought he was. Add to that the fact that he and Shirin hung out together, keeping the others at a distance ... the two of them really misplayed the social game.

 

[Hera]

I don't think Carolyn made a bad move, and depending on how soon she found out that Kelly was going to vote against the former White Collars (and how annoying everyone found Max and Shirin), she may have made pretty much the only move available to her—cutting ties with the people who were on the outs anyway, ensuring that she doesn't go before either one of them.

 

I'm not sure why there's any assumption that she would or should be loyal to her whole tribe. She was clear that her alliance was Tyler and Joaquin and that they were going to move against Shirin and Max if the tribal reshuffle hadn't happened. Even if Tyler and Joaquin find out that Carolyn was a willing participant in the vote to take out Max, why would they care? None of the tribes is going to be able to get to the merge with an outright majority, so cross-tribe alliances are going to happen. Given that, why should Carolyn hang on to Shirin and Max when a) people from the other tribes might be easier to work with and/or better for her game and b) she's going to have to work with people from the other tribes anyway? Plus, she has no idea what kind of alliances Tyler and Joaquin are forming on Escameca and whether or not they plan to include her in them. She'd be crazy not to try to open up new alliance possibilities of her own.

 

In fact, I think blindly sticking with your original tribe is a terrible idea on a three-tribe season, especially this one. Suppose they merge at 12 and there are still five people from Blue Collar left in the game, who are going to stick together (unlikely, given what Sierra said in the most recent episode, but bear with me). That bloc of five need to convince two more people to vote with them in order to get a majority, but why would anyone, much less two people, do that? They'd be joining an alliance as six and seven with no way to move up, since that group has already made it clear that their loyalty is to the original tribe they were on. What is far more likely to happen is that the unified group of five gets targeted by the other seven for the first couple of votes.

 

Keeping tribal numbers high is a priority in two-tribe seasons, since going into the merge with a majority allows you to pagong (or mostly pagong) the opposing tribe. In this situation, flipping on your tribe is risky, since it means your original tribemates will form the majority of the jury and hate you for "backstabbing" them if you make it to the end, but you probably won't (except as a goat) because once the other tribe is comfortably in the majority, they can get rid of you whenever. By design, three-tribe seasons don't let any of the original tribes into the merge with a majority—this is why I like three-tribe seasons so much! People have to try to find the best alliance for themselves out of all the players in the game, not just the ones they were with on Day 1.

[truthaboutluv]

I don't think Carolyn made a bad move, and depending on how soon she found out that Kelly was going to vote against the former White Collars (and how annoying everyone found Max and Shirin), she may have made pretty much the only move available to her—cutting ties with the people who were on the outs anyway, ensuring that she doesn't go before either one of them.

 

 

While I agree in that Carolyn did not necessarily make a bad move, just to clarify, Kelly was not going to vote against the former White Collars. Shirin had actually gotten to her and convinced her they (Max, Shirin and Carolyn) were a tight three and she should come with them to vote out one of the No Collars, which Kelly agreed to because she was just happy it wasn't her.

 

Kelly didn't seem to change her vote until she realized that Carolyn, contrary to what Shirin thought was not with her original tribemates and would be voting with the No Collars. Which suddenly meant that Kelly was not the swing vote as she thought and the No Collars didn't even need her anymore to vote Max or Shirin out. So at that point she decided it made no sense voting with Max and Shirin who she really had no loyalty to and who didn't have the numbers on their side. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[needschocolate]

ETA Or, what needschocolate just said. Damn my slow typing.

 

Great minds, Fishcakes, great minds.... :-)

[SlackerInc]

I would like to know why exactly Carolyn was so against Max though. I mean, he was insufferable sure, but I find Joaquin and Tyler (and Shirin really, even though I liker her) annoying as well so I'd like to know what exactly made Carolyn so fixated on her Max dislike.

 

I would be curious to know, more than this even, why you and nearly everyone else find Max "insufferable".  I found him likeable, but even if people don't feel that way I don't understand why his floor isn't just "meh".  Insufferable is a word I'd apply to Rodney, Mike, Dan, and for that matter Carolyn.

 

On the other hand, I don't think that Shirin seemed that annoying. I can't stand when people talk incessantly because they're being self-promotional, but I think in her case it's just genuine excitement of the game. I don't think she does it to brag and she's not a mean or unsupportive person.

[snip]

And yes, Carolyn and others have mentioned that Shirin and Max are annoying. To me, Carolyn seems humourless and uptight and Jenn comes off that way too (unless, like I said, she's the one making the joke, in which case it's hilariouuuus).

 

So glad I'm not all alone in feeling this way, on both counts!  (Although I'm more neutral on Jenn.)

[pennben]

 

I would like to know why exactly Carolyn was so against Max though.

 

Here's my stab at an explanation:

 

1.  Max has admitted that he didn't let Carolyn know before the first WC vote that she was the "pawn" to lure Juaquin & So into them believing Max was with them.  Thus, although Max/Shirin concocted the plan and were with Carolyn, Carolyn only saw that she was left out of the plan, even though she was the one subject to risk of being voted off if the plan failed;

2.  Max has admitted that he spent tons of time with Shirin and didn't nurture his relationship with Carolyn, so she sees her two supposed allies constantly off together at WC, not talking to her;

3.  Max advocating to not sit Shirin at challenges so she doesn't feel alienated to Carolyn is further evidence to her that Shirin is his most important ally, not her.

4.  After the switch, again, Max/Shirin don't keep Carolyn in the loop on their thinking, they just tell her who they are all to vote for...

 

Add that up, I can see how in Carolyn's mind she wasn't truly an ally to Max/Shirin, but just a number for them. A number they would sacrifice first to save themselves.

 

Then, I think that Carolyn was ABSOLUTELY annoyed by Shirin and was annoyed by Max, but she saw Max as the one controlling Shirin's vote, leading them to be a power "couple" if you will.  Thus, the "cut off the head of the snake" comments.  I also can see that she would think Shirin would be the lesser of the threat to leave in the game because she was so annoying to so many others.  

 

So, maybe it was a mistake, who knows, but I can see why Carolyn didn't really trust either one of them and why she was annoyed with both.  Perhaps if she had been included more in the thinking of their alliance, a lot of what they were doing out there would have annoyed her less.

Edited March 24, 2015 by pennben

[Donny Ketchum]

While I agree in that Carolyn did not necessarily make a bad move, just to clarify, Kelly was not going to vote against the former White Collars. Shirin had actually gotten to her and convinced her they (Max, Shirin and Carolyn) were a tight three and she should come with them to vote out one of the No Collars, which Kelly agreed to because she was just happy it wasn't her.

 

Kelly didn't seem to change her vote until she realized that Carolyn, contrary to what Shirin thought was not with her original tribemates and would be voting with the No Collars. Which suddenly meant that Kelly was not the swing vote as she thought and the No Collars didn't even need her anymore to vote Max or Shirin out. So at that point she decided it made no sense voting with Max and Shirin who she really had no loyalty to and who didn't have the numbers on their side. 

Actually, if you go to Hali, Max, and Shirin's threads, there is a secret video there mentioning that Kelly actually jumped a lot sooner than it looked.  She'd jumped to the No Collars not long after they'd gotten back to camp.  Shirin's pitch hadn't done a thing.

[needschocolate]

I would be curious to know, more than this even, why you and nearly everyone else find Max "insufferable".  I found him likeable, but even if people don't feel that way I don't understand why his floor isn't just "meh".  Insufferable is a word I'd apply to Rodney, Mike, Dan, and for that matter Carolyn.

 

If any one is conducting a poll...I don't find Max or Shirin insufferable or even annoying.  They made for some good TV.  However, I am not on an island with them 24/7, I am not listening to them go on and on about monkey sex or their bowel movements or how much they know about every tiny Survivor detail (supposedly, the biggest complaint about them, or at least Shirin, was the amount of talking),  I don't have to watch either of them walk around naked or wonder if I am touching something their naked butts have been on, and I don't have to worry if they go off into the jungle to discuss strategy. 

 

It seems that everyone who had live in the same camp as Max and Shirin found them both to be very annoying.  I am wondering how many posters actually think that Max and Shirin are annoying/insufferable, or are like me, and think that they would be annoying to live with  (I guess this means that I am the one conducting a poll)

 

I do find Rodney to be insufferable and annoying and any other synonym there is, and the only way I would ever say he makes for good TV is if he gets voted out in the most embarrassing blindside ever or if he gets knocked off the log/platform by a "girl" in one of those knock them off the platform/log challenges.  I am not fond of Dan as a person, but I think his imbecile-ness provides a few chuckles.  

 

It should be noted that only a few (3?) people have spent any time at camp with both Rodney & Dan and Max & Shirin.  They are the only ones that could really say which pair is more annoying to be around, but we haven't heard any real  comparisons yet (like "Wow, Rodney makes me miss Shirin).  

 

Jouquin (spelling?) knows both sets and seems to like Rodney.  Kelly knows both sets and found Max and Shirin to be annoying.  This says something - but does it say something about Max and Shirin or something about Kelly and Jauquin?   

Edited March 24, 2015 by needschocolate

[LadyChatts]

If any one is conducting a poll...I don't find Max or Shirin insufferable or even annoying.  They made for some good TV.  However, I am not on an island with them 24/7, I am not listening to them go on and on about monkey sex or their bowel movements or how much they know about every tiny Survivor detail (supposedly, the biggest complaint about them, or at least Shirin, was the amount of talking),  I don't have to watch either of them walk around naked or wonder if I am touching something their naked butts have been on, and I don't have to worry if they go off into the jungle to discuss strategy. 

 

It seems that everyone who had live in the same camp as Max and Shirin found them both to be very annoying.  I am wondering how many posters actually think that Max and Shirin are annoying/insufferable, or are like me, and think that they would be annoying to live with  (I guess this means that I am the one conducting a poll)

 

I do find Rodney to be insufferable and annoying and any other synonym there is, and the only way I would ever say he makes for good TV is if he gets voted out in the most embarrassing blindside ever or if he gets knocked off the log/platform by a "girl" in one of those knock them off the platform/log challenges.  I am not fond of Dan as a person, but I think his imbecile-ness provides a few chuckles.  

 

It should be noted that only a few (3?) people have spent any time at camp with both Rodney & Dan and Max & Shirin.  They are the only ones that could really say which pair is more annoying to be around, but we haven't heard any real  comparisons yet (like "Wow, Rodney makes me miss Shirin).  

 

Jouquin (spelling?) knows both sets and seems to like Rodney.  Kelly knows both sets and found Max and Shirin to be annoying.  This says something - but does it say something about Max and Shirin or something about Kelly and Jauquin?   

 

I don't know if I trust Joaquin's judgement in character, but that could be because I don't care for Joaquin myself.  He reminds me of a more refined version of Rodney (basically a boozing womanizer that talks a lot of smack, except with more cash to flash).  It probably explains why they get along so well.  However, I like Tyler and Carolyn, and they seem to be Joaquin's closest allies.  In terms of Kelly, I haven't seen enough of her to get why she went with the men over the women.  And I don't know if it was more because of Rodney or because of Mike.  She was on the older half of the former blue collar tribe, and maybe she didn't get along with the 2 younger girls or felt that they wouldn't stay loyal.  I don't know enough of Kelly's game to know whether she was just promised she'd be taken care of by Mike and the gang for as long as she stayed loyal to them and they'd go the distance together (which usually translates to 'vote with us until we don't need you anymore').  We didn't get a lot of dynamics from the former WC or BC tribes before the swap, which is why I'm intrigued going forward what's going to happen.  As I said in a previous post, I was way off about the alliance dynamics from the former WC tribe after reading Max's interviews and seeing the extra vids on CBS.

 

RE: Max/Shirin.  If I'm being honest, I've found Max more annoying in post-boot interviews than I ever did on the show.  What I've said about Max all along is what my problem was with him: he seemed to want to create a memorable character, and I didn't find him genuine.  He seemed just a little too pleased when So got voted off, and after reading his interviews about how it was a total blindside, now I know why.  Yet that very blindside ended up costing him an early exit in the end, thanks to Carolyn.  It seemed like playing too strong, too fast.  I did find him annoying to watch, but I think I would equally find him annoying to live with.  Shirin, this past week was the first episode where I really had a negative opinion of her.  Annoying, cocky, whatever, but it made for a great blindside moment in the end.  Previously she seemed kooky, but in a lovable and good way.  I don't care for the getting naked from the waist down (male or female).  I still like her, and don't want to see her go anytime soon.  She is good TV, and she's having fun.  I do wonder if some of that being carefree, anything goes attitude was more because she felt confident that she had a strong alliance and wasn't going anywhere, so she could act however she wanted.  I do think she'd be annoying to live with in cramped quarters, but she seems like she might be a really fun person to hang out with in real life. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by LadyChatts

[KimberStormer]

Really loving the discussion!  I go back and forth on Carolyn's move.  I guess only time will tell if it was the right choice or not, but I have to say this discussion of it is one of the most interesting Survivor debates I've seen in a long time.  Everyone is making good points.

[LadyChatts]

I see both pros and cons keeping Carolyn.  Keeping her means she could bring Tyler and Joaquin into the fold.  I don't see her wanting to align with Rodney, so that might hit a snag with Joaquin (and maybe even Tyler, if he has more loyalty to him over her).  However, if the girls at the tribe feel that's more of a threat to them, and they feel they could win loyalty from Shirin by sparing her, getting rid of Carolyn might be the better option.  Since it seemed that no one in Carolyn's alliance had any loyalty to Max/Shirin, and she considered him a threat to her existence in the game, it was probably a smarter move.  It's a gamble, and it may pay off.  However, Carolyn might have ultimately found herself in a lose/lose situation regardless.

 

If Nagarote loses this week, they might actually be wise to get rid of Kelly or Shirin.  Shirin could be a wild card at the merge since she had no allies left.  Since the former WC/NC each have 4 former members to the old BC 5, it might benefit them to try and get some of them ousted before the merge.  I don't see Joe going against Jenn/Hali.  Sierra seems game to turn on her former tribe.  Whether Kelly goes back to the boys or not who knows.  I keep hoping that there's some really good blindsides coming up in regards to the men.  One of Rodney's extra videos this week was in regards to merging with numbers and "smelling the million" (yeah, smelling it as someone else is winning it).  But I don't know that Rodney has really proven loyalty to anyone.  Each week he's seemed to have a new target.  Getting into a bromance with Joaquin may again make him switch sides.  Funny how there's so many possibilities to how one vote can go.  I guess there is some truth to the wisdom Probst sprouts at the end of each TC.  I'm hoping the Esemeca throws the IC this week, but they're probably too worried about Sierra to even risk it.

Edited March 24, 2015 by LadyChatts

[himela]

If I were Caroly and I had to to choose which one should be voted out in the tribal council, I'd surely choose Kelly cause she is the only one with four more tribe mates in the other tribe (the blue collar tribe). After that, and if the new red tribe would be so unlucky to lose again, then Carolyn could use her HII and vote off Jenn or Hali who 1. have proven to be good at challenges and 2. they seem to be close to each other so they are a powerful and dangerous, charming duo. This way she would have weakened the former blue collar tribe by one member (Kelly), she would have cut this powerful trio of Jenn - Hali - Joe, she would have kept her numbers with her white collar tribe, she would have shown loyalty to Tyler and Joaquin and basically she would be in the tribe with the most people in it (5 white collar, 4 blue collar, 3 no collar). This for me would be the power play that would  make her win the money if she made it to the final three.

[Jersey Guy 87]

While I agree in that Carolyn did not necessarily make a bad move, just to clarify, Kelly was not going to vote against the former White Collars. Shirin had actually gotten to her and convinced her they (Max, Shirin and Carolyn) were a tight three and she should come with them to vote out one of the No Collars, which Kelly agreed to because she was just happy it wasn't her.

 

Kelly didn't seem to change her vote until she realized that Carolyn, contrary to what Shirin thought was not with her original tribemates and would be voting with the No Collars. Which suddenly meant that Kelly was not the swing vote as she thought and the No Collars didn't even need her anymore to vote Max or Shirin out. So at that point she decided it made no sense voting with Max and Shirin who she really had no loyalty to and who didn't have the numbers on their side. 

 

 

Actually, if you go to Hali, Max, and Shirin's threads, there is a secret video there mentioning that Kelly actually jumped a lot sooner than it looked.  She'd jumped to the No Collars not long after they'd gotten back to camp.  Shirin's pitch hadn't done a thing.

 

I haven't watched the secret video, but I never got the sense Kelly was actually on board with Shirin after her pitch.  I never felt she was definitely aligned to vote with Max/Shirin.  Also, when you've got a 3-3-1 situation (3 WC, 3 NC and 1 BC) in camp the single BC was the least likely target.  Kelly seems to have enough game to realize that so she wasn't likely to be of the "happy it isn't her" variety of voter.  She probably expected both sides to approach her and would go with the best (not necessarily first) offer.

[SlackerInc]

I don't know if I trust Joaquin's judgement in character, but that could be because I don't care for Joaquin myself.  He reminds me of a more refined version of Rodney (basically a boozing womanizer that talks a lot of smack, except with more cash to flash).

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about Joaquin: he really sucks too.  Lots of insufferable players left, which makes me nervous.  I gotta have someone to actually root for on Survivor.

[peachmangosteen]

I would be curious to know, more than this even, why you and nearly everyone else find Max "insufferable".  I found him likeable, but even if people don't feel that way I don't understand why his floor isn't just "meh".  Insufferable is a word I'd apply to Rodney, Mike, Dan, and for that matter Carolyn.

 

Well, I find a lot of the contestants this season insufferable, certainly all the men minus Will and maybe Joe. Max's manner of speaking is insufferable to me. His arrogance was insufferable. He's insufferable on Twitter/Tumblr.

 

Max has admitted that he didn't let Carolyn know before the first WC vote that she was the "pawn" to lure Joaquin & So into them believing Max was with them.  Thus, although Max/Shirin concocted the plan and were with Carolyn, Carolyn only saw that she was left out of the plan, even though she was the one subject to risk of being voted off if the plan failed;

 

I think this is definitely what's at the crux of Carolyn's issue with Max and I can easily understand that.

[Hera]

I haven't watched the secret video, but I never got the sense Kelly was actually on board with Shirin after her pitch.  I never felt she was definitely aligned to vote with Max/Shirin.  Also, when you've got a 3-3-1 situation (3 WC, 3 NC and 1 BC) in camp the single BC was the least likely target.  Kelly seems to have enough game to realize that so she wasn't likely to be of the "happy it isn't her" variety of voter.  She probably expected both sides to approach her and would go with the best (not necessarily first) offer.

Regardless of the actual sequence of events, it would be useful for both Kelly and Carolyn to claim that they each joined the No Collar alliance because they thought that's where the other one had gone, thus allowing both of them to use the "I was just following the numbers" excuse if they get any stick for voting out Max. In reality, though, I think the only person left in the game who is going to care about that vote is Shirin. I'll be interested to see if Carolyn tries to smooth things over with her at all.

 

I really cannot wait to see what happens at the merge. If Sierra makes it there, then she's determined to flip on her original tribemates, and if Shirin makes it there, then she's likely to want to flip on her original tribemates as well. I could see the original members of No Collar wanting to stick together, but it might be difficult for them to convince anyone to vote with them if they do. I honestly have no clue who will end up forming the majority alliance in that first, post-merge vote.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Regardless of the actual sequence of events, it would be useful for both Kelly and Carolyn to claim that they each joined the No Collar alliance because they thought that's where the other one had gone, thus allowing both of them to use the "I was just following the numbers" excuse if they get any stick for voting out Max. In reality, though, I think the only person left in the game who is going to care about that vote is Shirin. I'll be interested to see if Carolyn tries to smooth things over with her at all.

 

I really cannot wait to see what happens at the merge. If Sierra makes it there, then she's determined to flip on her original tribemates, and if Shirin makes it there, then she's likely to want to flip on her original tribemates as well. I could see the original members of No Collar wanting to stick together, but it might be difficult for them to convince anyone to vote with them if they do. I honestly have no clue who will end up forming the majority alliance in that first, post-merge vote.

 

I agree that what Carolyn/Kelly tell people what went down doesn't have to match reality - they tell people what they need to in order to further their games.  But I also don't think this will matter unless the next immunity challenge has virtually no physical element to it - the same tribe will go to tribal again and Shirin will be sent home.

 

And I also agree that the post-merge shuffle will be very interesting.  The three tribe dynamic pretty much insures that.

[Way Wes Jr]

This is always my least favorite ranking to do.  I assume that they merge will happen at twelve, (no spoilers, just an assumption,) so if I put a ton of work into ranking the tribes - it’s all going to get reshuffled anyhow.  Plus, we’ve only had one hour to see the “new” tribal dynamics, and they were focused primarily on nuNagarote because of their trip to tribal.  (If there had only been the one episode, it would have been my second-least favorite, as the previews would have revealed the tribe swap.)

 

Best episode ever?  Of the best season ever?  At best one out of two, Jiffy Pop.

 

When they last did this challenge (BBB, if I recall,) they didn’t have the safety problem that happened this time - I don’t remember any of the callers back then yelling out, “Drop it!,” during the platform lowering back then, but I definitely heard it this time.  Production should have halted the competition, and told them that the platforms had to be lowered all the way down, or the offending tribe would be disqualified.  Sure, the conk and blood was “interesting” TV, but a lawsuit would chill that thrill.  (And yes, I know they sign waivers and disclaimers, but I’m pretty sure that “callous indifference” would negate those clauses, and that’d be my argument.)

 

nuEscameca (Blue)

 

I’m going to assume that Tyler has the most sense on this tribe for the purposes of ranking.  The potential split of Team Sexist vs. Joaquin/Joe/Tyler with Sierra siding with the latter seems to fit Tyler’s self interest; but the Bro-douche-mance hinted at in the previews could screw that up.  Let’s say that the RodJo love fest happens before the first challenge.  When Tyler sees that Max has been eliminated, the logical thought is that Kelly (Blue) teamed up with the Nagarotes (Red) to get rid of the “strongest” Masaya (Yellow.)  [Even though I would have said Carolyn was the best challenge player of the three Masaya’s to choose from...]  Given that, he should jump on Sierra’s offer, and Joe should go along.  (The current old tribe split is 5/4/4, getting rid of Dan/ Mike/ Rodney would make it 4/4/4 - I don’t know if that favors Tyler, (and Jo,)  but it sure helps Joe.

 

1. Tyler (3M)
2. Joaquin (4M)
3. Sierra (2E)  I’ll talk about it more in the Lindsey postscript, but boy, I had the dynamics of the old Escameca wrong.  But here, she’s probably perceived as less of a threat, immunity and likeability than ...
4. Joe (1N)
5. Dan (6E) Not an immunity threat, potential goat.
6. Rodney (4E) A (perceived) immunity threat, but has goat potential, and - should they go to tribal before the merge, (which: how does that challenge work? Puzzle - physical - puzzle?,) his brodouchemance with Joaquin may save him.
7. Mike (5E)  Which means the least objectionable, most Survivor savvy of the three Escameca men would be in the most danger.

 

nuNagarote (Red)

 

I am not penalizing Kelly below for her mistakes, but I’ve got to wonder why she went with the men against Lindsey.  My prediction: to avoid the purple rock scenario.  If Team Testosterone was obviously sticking together, I can see why she went with the alternate split of older (+Rodney) versus younger.  (In her mind.  In reality it’s men (+Kelly) vs women.)

 

1. Jenn (2N)
2. Hali (3N)
3. Carolyn (1M)  Still gets to rank high because of her HII, and she made the better “swing vote” play by aggressively throwing Max and Shirin under the bus - after they had a chance to show how utterly annoying they were.  Carolyn’s only alliance is with Tyler (she thinks,) and while I think her decision was made for personal reasons, and not strategic, she does have the HII.  In post-merge, post HII-play episodes, I think she’ll still rank highly as she won’t be seen as a threat OR she’ll be viewed as a potential goat.
4. Will (4N)  A stealth winner, as he won’t be seen as an individual immunity threat.  Will have to be able to present himself as the reason Joe was voted off before the Final Tribal if that set of scenarios is to come to pass.
5. Kelly (1E)  [Note, if I had done rankings after Lindsey’s boot, Kelly would have been 4E.]  She was too coy with her swing vote, allowing Carolyn to move ahead to the power position.  Even though she sided with the old Nagarote’s, Carolyn’s move made it superfluous.  She is the person most in need of a merge at twelve.
6. Shirin (5M) You and Max must be terribly annoying.  Carolyn was in an alliance with you, with Tyler as a soft fourth, and she wasted no time in throwing that advantage away.  (According to the edit, you have no way of knowing about Carolyn’s HII, but if she had wanted to pull Kelly over to the three of you, I bet she would have shown it to her, as she did with Tyler.)  If I was dumb enough to bet money on Survivor, I’d bet that you get eliminated next, as I don’t believe the next immunity challenge will favor your tribe.

 

OUT  Max (2M)  I also have to think that Jenn is assuming that the merge is at twelve, and she wanted you gone over Shirin for individual immunity purposes.

 

ALSO OUT  Lindsey (3M)  There was no clue, until the hour you were chucked, about the divisions in your tribe.  I obviously had no read on the dynamics - and whether that is good storytelling or bad on the part of the producers is up for debate.  One of the most important Survivor qualities is being able to keep your emotions in check; this was not one of your stronger qualities.

[seacliffsal]

Actually, the NC may not be that tight.  Remember that Will changed his vote from the agreed upon plan at their first tribal council.  Also, he received votes at the next one and was told it was in case there was an HII played which meant that he would have gone home.  He may not be as loyal as many assume and may be looking to make an alliance switch.  In this case we could see a new alliance that involves Will as well as Carolyn.

[SlackerInc]

Max's manner of speaking is insufferable to me. His arrogance was insufferable. He's insufferable on Twitter/Tumblr.

 

Ahh.  I have not encountered him there--I know him only from what I've seen on screen.

[Guest]

If any one is conducting a poll...I don't find Max or Shirin insufferable or even annoying.  They made for some good TV.  However, I am not on an island with them 24/7, I am not listening to them go on and on about monkey sex or their bowel movements or how much they know about every tiny Survivor detail (supposedly, the biggest complaint about them, or at least Shirin, was the amount of talking),  I don't have to watch either of them walk around naked or wonder if I am touching something their naked butts have been on, and I don't have to worry if they go off into the jungle to discuss strategy. 

That's twice she's been accused here of describing bowel movements in great detail.  Did I miss a scene or is this all stemming from her saying, "I think I'll go try to poop.  You never know if you don't try."  Because honestly I might mention my intentions to someone around camp in earshot of the cameramen, seeing as how they followed Max.  

 

Ahh.  I have not encountered him there--I know him only from what I've seen on screen.

I read some of his exit interviews and I like him more from that, not that I found him insufferable on screen.  He said he really only stripped to go poop in the ocean but the camera crew rushed over so he hammed it up on the spot, with the nudity story.  I don't know how I'd react to a camera crew rushing up to me trying to poop, really.  I for sure wouldn't appreciate it and I'm surprised they do that.  He's pretty funny in interviews.  

[needschocolate]

That's twice she's been accused here of describing bowel movements in great detail.  Did I miss a scene or is this all stemming from her saying, "I think I'll go try to poop.  You never know if you don't try."  Because honestly I might mention my intentions to someone around camp in earshot of the cameramen, seeing as how they followed Max.  

 

I didn't say she described them in detail - but I don't need details to make it not okay.  If I were on the island, I would not want to know if someone is going to try to poop or if they are just going to pee.    It is not my concern. Perhaps if I were really close to someone (if it were a loved one on one of those seasons) I might care about their bowel issues, and if it were far enough into a game and my closest ally might going home because of some bowel trouble, then I might want to know. Otherwise, no need to announce it - I don't need that mental image.  Plus, I may wonder if they are just saying they are going to go poop so they can spend time alone looking for an idol.  

[Way Wes Jr]

Otherwise, no need to announce it - I don't need that mental image.  Plus, I may wonder if they are just saying they are going to go poop so they can spend time alone looking for an idol.  

 

But see, this is the reason you announce.  Rob M. has stated that claiming he had terrible diarrhea is what gave him the "alone time" he needed to go idol hunting.  Not everyone can wait until their tribe wins the chicken challenge and claim semi-vegetarianism as their excuse to go hunting.

 

Spoilered for folks who don't need more scatological talk - no actual spoilers within:

 

 From what I've been reading, most people are pooping in the ocean, which, yuck; so if someone announce they're going off to relieve themselves, and they head towards the well/ water supply ...

[Guest]

Not to mention, you don't want to head into the ocean for a poop-try and have people follow you, thinking it's a swimming break.  And seriously how hard must it be to poop in the ocean with cameramen and tribesmen in view?  Or at all?  

 

One person above said she "described it in detail", another said she "went on and on about it".  I don't see how the announcement we heard was either.  

 

But I do find it odd that they aired it.  I mean, since when do we get those details?  It makes me wonder if they're digging deep to make Shirin seem more annoying and over-sharing than she is.  And I don't know if it's fair of them to be airing those things or following them with cameras when they disrobe for bodily function purposes.  

[ratgirlagogo]

 

He said he really only stripped to go poop in the ocean but the camera crew rushed over so he hammed it up on the spot, with the nudity story.  I don't know how I'd react to a camera crew rushing up to me trying to poop, really.  I for sure wouldn't appreciate it and I'm surprised they do that.  He's pretty funny in interviews.

Answering in Max's thread.

[allthatglitters]

Just thought I'd post that surreal image of the bug coated lizard from this episode. Amazing shot!

 

[himela]

Wrong thread sorry.

Edited April 4, 2015 by himela