Crim March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 ^ How can you not? The only question is what will be used as evidence again you from the plethora of things that could. Link to comment
apgold March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 This ep was crazy as usual but I loved Caleb, who was the only one making any sense. I loved his tirade at Tanner - the actress has smug and condescending down pat. I don't understand that Ali didn't explain in the trial that she and her bunkmate fixed the archery results. Maybe she gave up and knew she was going to be convicted. Anyway, I don't see the correlation that being good in archery means you have brute strength to throw a girl into a wall. It's not like she won a weightlifting trophy! For some reason I thought this was the finale, so I was hoping they would show A in the end tag - was hoping it was Mona again. We know Mona liked dolls (with all the ones still in her bedroom), so clearly A loves playing with dolls too. I don't watch "Parks and Rec" so I was clueless about the Perd Hapley thing. Did like Sara Shepard's cameo - maybe she's A, lol since she's been there since the beginning. Anyway, after all this time, any A reveal is going to be a letdown. 1 Link to comment
Black Knight March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 (edited) This Mike thing befuddles me so much that it had me wondering about the AriA possibility. Seriously, Ali's been convicted and now the 4 PLLs are all in jail facing trials of their own when Mike is holding onto something that would at least create enough reasonable doubt to save them all. If I don't hear a couple of the girls bring up Mike in the next episode, I'm going to be really annoyed. Ali and Spencer, at least. Hanna was toeing the "he's a kid" line here, and I can maybe buy Emily being softhearted enough to go along with Aria, but not Spencer and Ali. I have a hard enough time believing Ali even kept this to herself for this long, but especially not now that she's actually been convicted. If Mona shows up alive, I have a feeling the first thing Ali will do is kill her for real... I enjoyed Ali's utter befuddlement about Lesli Stone because she's usually not this completely out of the loop. Emily's "There are barracudas with duller teeth" line made me laugh. When the archery championship thing came up, I thought it was going to be another clue of Ali twins - one twin has the not-properly-healed fracture and the other does not - but Ali's ruefulness over how another one of her sneaky tricks/lies has come back to screw her over was fun. Why do I suspect that despite all that Ali and Hanna had to go through in this episode just to have a conversation, there will be no such problems with the PLLs being able to converse freely now that they're all in jail together? And Ali and Emily will probably be sharing the same cell...hello, Emison. Edited March 18, 2015 by Black Knight 1 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 (edited) I don't understand that Ali didn't explain in the trial that she and her bunkmate fixed the archery results. Maybe she gave up and knew she was going to be convicted. Anyway, I don't see the correlation that being good in archery means you have brute strength to throw a girl into a wall. It's not like she won a weightlifting trophy! I think her concern was coming off as shady and scheming which would damage her credibility (as if there's anyone left in Rosewood who doesn't think she's a liar). That would give the prosecution room to argue that she has been plotting and manipulating since she was a kid and that she has a history of using people and doing whatever it takes to get what she wants. You know, which is true! Edited March 18, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo 1 Link to comment
Spencer Hastings March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 I haven't liked Andrew since he started giving Spencer pills. He's always been shady. 1 Link to comment
MissL March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 That girl from the playground was useless. If she didn't even see Ali what's the point of having her. She heard a voice... Great. Reasonable doubt! She could at least create a little bit of reasonable doubt. That trial was ridiculous. Have the writers ever watched a Lawyer show?! There is no body. Mona has a history of mental illness and "hyper" whatever and documented case of stalking and terrorizing the girls. Mona hated Ali. Full on hated her for bullying her which fits the prosecution side of the story but all you have to do is add the twist that Maybe super duper smart and crazy hyper-reality Mona did all this to screw with Ali and get revenge. It's not like Mona was a spotless human being. There is a giant truck full of reasonable doubt all over this case. That lawyer did well and truly suck! I mean at this point the trial just feels stupid and useless as far as the story goes. 5 Link to comment
Artsda March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 Ha, LOVED Ella's pointed remark about students confiding in their favorite teachers. And of course, Aria just breezed right past it. I think Aria showed more respect for her mother by breezing right past it. That wasn't the time for a fight, and Aria ignoring the jab avoided that. Ella's been an absent mother running off and leaving Aria and Mike behind and she's going to make sarcastic comments about Aria's relationship? Considering the man Ella was marrying she shouldn't be throwing stones. 1 Link to comment
Crim March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 (edited) Why do I suspect that despite all that Ali and Hanna had to go through in this episode just to have a conversation, there will be no such problems with the PLLs being able to converse freely now that they're all in jail together? And Ali and Emily will probably be sharing the same cell...hello, Emison. This won't be an issue, because they won't be in jail for long. (This is no longer a spoiler, since the A tag showed the plan and then the promo confirmed its application.) I think her concern was coming off as shady and scheming which would damage her credibility (as if there's anyone left in Rosewood who doesn't think she's a liar). Also, she had no proof, and the lie would have served her interests. She realized that she'd lost the fight. What I don't get is why the lawyer didn't have a medical expert to testify as to what activities Ali can and cannot perform; did she not anticipate the prosecution going over Ali's various activities that gave no sign of impairment? Edited March 18, 2015 by Crim Link to comment
AmandaPanda March 18, 2015 Author Share March 18, 2015 It is my ongoing quest in life to try to figure out the timeline of this friggin' show. If the season started 3 months after Christmas, that puts the winter premiere on March 25. But in this episode, the church guy mentioned something about an Easter picnic or something to do with Easter. If this is still set in 2012, Easter was on April 8. So, all of these episodes have happened in about a week and a half? 1 Link to comment
Black Knight March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 Except that the interview segment at the beginning stated that this is the second month of Ali's trial... Link to comment
Giuliano Lanzilli March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 Crazy thought: since Ali was shown making a phone call on Thanksgiving, couldn't they check that day's phone records to prove she's not lying about her whereabouts? 1 Link to comment
Perfect Xero March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 You'd think that someone would have at least pointed out that pulling back the string on a bow is really different from throwing a human being across a room ... 3 Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 Except that the interview segment at the beginning stated that this is the second month of Ali's trial... As far as I can tell, two maybe three days have gone by. Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 (edited) This show is getting so stupid that soon they would need to keep Spencer in short skirts 24/7 to keep me watching. Literally nothing about this farce, excuse me, trial, made sense. Let's see: - there is trace evidence against Hanna (the blood) and nothing but circumstantial evidence against Alison, so naturally the latter was convicted first. - nobody bothered to mention Alison's injured elbow until now. Nobody bothered to ask how come she was mistaken with Bethany. Nobody bothered to, you know, examine said elbow and see for themselves if it is still not healed properly. It's like an attorney saying "Your honor, the defendant couldn't have committed the murder by because he is blind" and instead of, you know, have the guy examined by a doctor, the prosecutor calls some random guy who testifies that the defendant had a 20/20 vision years ago because that is a much more compelling proof, you know. - Doesn't Hanna have a lawyer of her own? Because Julie from Friends is the lawyer counterpart of Rosewood's cops. If the other lawyers there are like her, no wonder the cops do not bother investigating properly. - I get that Spencer and Emily were desperate but them conveniently stumbling across that Kendra girl who had conveniently confided in Aria's mom (who still exists!) was such amateurish plotting that I would have rolled my eyes even if I had seen it in a fanfic. - Of course the prosecution didn't bother showing any proof to their claim that Alison's kidnapping was fake. Why bother, it was merely the lynchpin of their theory about the "murder", after all... - Toby, you idiot. Ever heard of something called conflict of interest? - Ashley doesn't show up to hear the verdict on Alison? Bullshit. Look, I hate Alison and if she is to spend her life in jail I would say good riddance but this trial was a total joke from start to finish. They could have made Alison a somewhat sympathetic figure without turning the trial into a farce. At the very least they could have had A plant some real evidence against her. Caleb is the only person in the show right now who has any common sense whatsoever. And really, whining about plot holes aside, is it really a good idea to have protagonists who never achieve any lasting successes in the struggle against the Big Bad and have this continue for over 100 episodes? At this point I am basically all "so, the girls were arrested again. Big deal. Not like they aren't completely helplessly outside of jail too and haven't been arrested like half a dozen times already". Rooting for the underdog gets old if the underdog never, ever wins. Especially if this is to a large extent due to said underdog's complete lack of common sense. P.S. Goodness gracious, do they do anything in the jail but laundry? Must be the prison with the cleanest clothes ever. Edited March 18, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe 5 Link to comment
superman1204 March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 You'd think that someone would have at least pointed out that pulling back the string on a bow is really different from throwing a human being across a room ... I had the same thought. I get that Alison's lawyer is useless, but how is it that Alison, the queen of lying, could not pull something out of her ass along those lines. "I figured out how to brace my arm." "I'm ambidextrous if I practice enough." "Only quick motions, like throwing or shoving, hurt my arm, but using a bow is fine." It actually makes perfect sense that someone would be able to work around a chronic injury for small things, but couldn't do something major like beat someone to death. Oh PPL's logic... Link to comment
David Selig March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 This is probably a stupid question, but why didn't Alison just say that she shoots a bow with her left arm? And aren't windshields supposed to be really hard to break or pierce? How did that arrow got so deep inside the car? Is Andrews or whoever shot this some kind of Hercules? Anyway, the whole trial was beyond dumb. No way anyone would get convicted so quickly on such scant evidence and without a dead body, let alone a beautiful 18 year old girl. The prosecutor had barely any evidence. I don't expect much realism from such shows, but this is just too much to take. 2 Link to comment
hqtextbook March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 When they said that thing about the second month of the trial I almost just turned off the tv and walked away. Forever. 3 Link to comment
cuddlingcrowley March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 (edited) Crazy thought: since Ali was shown making a phone call on Thanksgiving, couldn't they check that day's phone records to prove she's not lying about her whereabouts? Not only that, but according to "How to get away with murder", the celltower can pinpoint the spot you make a phonecall. I'll echo everyone and say Ali's conviction was completely preventable. There was no case against her but, unfortunately, she had the worst lawyer (can you imagine Annalise Keating being Ali's lawyer? Girl wouldn't have seen the inside of a jail cell) and both her and Hanna basically had long given up. Mike not testifying was unnaceptable as was the girls not coming clean about A. What did they have to lose, after all? I don't buy anyone feeling selfless about their loved ones potentially being in danger when you're facing a murder conviction. Aria, of course, couldn't have been more helpful to A's endgame even if she had tried. She basically threw everyone under the bus in order to save her brother and I don't think she knew that meant screwing herself over as well, until the very end. She also has always been one of the liars most set on not coming clean about A and I think that was, ultimately, the nail in their coffin. And I think it was a very intentional narrative decision from the writers' part. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had Caleb being so loud about the girls doing the exact opposite. I loved his smackdown of Ezra, btw. I also loved Sara Sheppard's cameo!! That's how you do it! I'll got out on a limb and say Spoby is doomed. Just wait. Quick-make ups without adressing any of the issues (Toby is a tool but Spencer did cheat... a lot.) is a recipe for disaster. I predicted the same thing for Pailey. Although, brushing everything under the carpet is the Spoby way, so what do I know? Andrew is cranking up the petty jealousy way too fast over Aria's "friendship" with Ezra. WTF ? Are they even really dating ? I think I saw Aria spirit checking out of that relationship even as she smiled like a pro and leaned over to give him a peck. Edited March 18, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley 1 Link to comment
KaveDweller March 18, 2015 Share March 18, 2015 I don't understand that Ali didn't explain in the trial that she and her bunkmate fixed the archery results. Maybe she gave up and knew she was going to be convicted. Maybe she thought it would just make her sound like more of a liar. Crazy thought: since Ali was shown making a phone call on Thanksgiving, couldn't they check that day's phone records to prove she's not lying about her whereabouts? I think so. According to How to Get Away With Murder if you make/take a call, it's possible to determine where you were when you took the call. That would definitely help clear her. So would the call that Cyrus must have made telling her to come see him. I think that park was out of town too, so Ali must have either driven (and gotten caught by traffic cameras) or taken a bus (and been seen by a driver). Her lawyer sucks. She should have just kept telling the jury there's no body so that is reasonable doubt. I don't get why the Liars were arrested after the verdict was read. If there's evidence against them, why even wait until the verdict? 1 Link to comment
scarynikki12 March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I feel like the archery story is supposed to hint to the twin theory. Like, the twin on the stand was the one with the poorly healed arm but the first switch occurred after that hospital visit and the other twin was the one winning awards for archery at camp. Then they switched back somehow and that's why this twin was caught off guard when it was mentioned. That's the only explanation I can think of, though Ali thinking it would make her look worse is good too. Also, I'm not a lawyer. I'll never be a lawyer. But I have seen My Cousin Vinny and many episodes of Law and Order and I know that LawyerJulie should have been shouting out objections when the prosecution brought out their surprise witness. The defense is entitled to full disclosure from the prosecution. MCV was where I learned that failure to disclose can lead to a mistrial and L&O would show Jack McCoy arguing fast whenever he was being accused of it. That would have made more sense for this episode: LawyerJulie uses the failure to disclose Lesli as a way to get a mistrial declared, freeing Ali, and then the other three Liars get arrested before they can celebrate. 1 Link to comment
Black Knight March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Well, apparently LawyerJulie was taking the same law school classes as Vinny. He didn't know either until his non-lawyer girlfriend did some reading and then screamed at him. "It's called disclosure, dickhead!" 2 Link to comment
kalamac March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I trust Caleb a lot less since he got the haircut and started growing that pathetic fuzzy facial hair. He looks kind of skeevy now. Link to comment
cuddlingcrowley March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 (edited) I trust Caleb a lot less since he got the haircut and started growing that pathetic fuzzy facial hair. He looks kind of skeevy now. Heh, Caleb has only started looking remotely attractive to me, recently, probably because of the haircut. It has grown on me. I loathed the long hair on him. Speaking of the guys, when Ezra argued that Mike is sixteen and therefore a "child" for a moment there anyone else thought Caleb might call Ezra out on his warped morals that dictate a sixteen year old testifying is too much but screwing one in order to write a book is perfectly cool?? Edited March 19, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley 10 Link to comment
Lolabelle March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Also, I'm not a lawyer. I'll never be a lawyer. But I have seen My Cousin Vinny and many episodes of Law and Order and I know that LawyerJulie should have been shouting out objections when the prosecution brought out their surprise witness. The defense is entitled to full disclosure from the prosecution. I was shouting the same thing at my tv! Same with the archery trophy. I guess this is why the girls have been so afraid of getting arrested with a shovel- because you will be found guilty of murder on pretty much no evidence. It's not even Rosewood PD, LawyerJulie and whoever the prosecutor was, even the freaking jury convicted Ali so quickly! Ditto on whoever pointed out that Ali made a phone call. Serial anyone? Granted, I watch this show, so I have to suspend my disbelief because we will all end up in Radley otherwise, but things like this bothers me. I don't get it and it makes me angry. Even if there was SOMETHING a little more damning for Ali, even if it was planted by A would've made me feel like the show at least tried. Speaking of the guys, when Ezra argued that Mike is sixteen and therefore a "child" for a moment there anyone else thought Caleb might call Ezra out on his warped morals that dictate a sixteen year old testifying is too much but screwing one in order to write a book is perfect cool?? Yup. Yo Ezra you started bonking Aria when she was like 15. Cool it. 2 Link to comment
tennisgurl March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I know right? I was like "how about that child your sleeping with Ezra? Or that baby you also were obsessed with"? GOD! I remain on the side of Team Clone Theory Link to comment
hqtextbook March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I was shouting the same thing at my tv! Same with the archery trophy. I guess this is why the girls have been so afraid of getting arrested with a shovel- because you will be found guilty of murder on pretty much no evidence. It's not even Rosewood PD, LawyerJulie and whoever the prosecutor was, even the freaking jury convicted Ali so quickly! Ditto on whoever pointed out that Ali made a phone call. Serial anyone? Granted, I watch this show, so I have to suspend my disbelief because we will all end up in Radley otherwise, but things like this bothers me. I don't get it and it makes me angry. Even if there was SOMETHING a little more damning for Ali, even if it was planted by A would've made me feel like the show at least tried. Yup. Yo Ezra you started bonking Aria when she was like 15. Cool it. LOL and Ali when she was what 13/14? 2 Link to comment
mercfan3 March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I get why Aria wanted Mike to keep his mouth shut, she doesn't want him dead. And it doesn't seem like it would have done much good for him to talk anyway, considering Tanner's stance and how his testimony would look. But they need him to testify. Poor Caleb though. Surrounded by so much stupid. Link to comment
raytch March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 And really, whining about plot holes aside, is it really a good idea to have protagonists who never achieve any lasting successes in the struggle against the Big Bad and have this continue for over 100 episodes? At this point I am basically all "so, the girls were arrested again. Big deal. Not like they aren't completely helplessly outside of jail too and haven't been arrested like half a dozen times already". Rooting for the underdog gets old if the underdog never, ever wins. Especially if this is to a large extent due to said underdog's complete lack of common sense. P.S. Goodness gracious, do they do anything in the jail but laundry? Must be the prison with the cleanest clothes ever. I don't think we were ever supposed to root for the liars because they were underdogs, but because they were unreliable narrators. We've been seeing the story from their side from day 1. Which is why we believe their suspicions (remember Ian chopping vegetables while drinking milk?). We believed them when they thought Toby is A and every character they suspected all the way to the Ezra reveal. We even almost believed them when Ali was acting all queen bee again and they thought she was A. There's obviously a huge piece of the puzzle that we, and the liars, don't have. And that's A's side. Which I'm looking forward to learn. I kind of wish they revealed big A sooner so we could get to the overall story. Link to comment
raytch March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 It is my ongoing quest in life to try to figure out the timeline of this friggin' show. If the season started 3 months after Christmas, that puts the winter premiere on March 25. But in this episode, the church guy mentioned something about an Easter picnic or something to do with Easter. If this is still set in 2012, Easter was on April 8. So, all of these episodes have happened in about a week and a half? I always thought that season 1 and 2 were first year at high school. Seasons 3 and 4 were second year. In the Halloween episode of season 4, that was when we saw Ali alive for the first time. Her reunion with the girls happened over the summer break, and when they came back to Rosewood it was almost time for school. School started in episode 5 and that's when we saw the liars as seniors. I'm pretty sure that that this isn't accurate at all. I think I automatically convinced myself with that so I don't have to keep wondering! Link to comment
Preity March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I always thought that season 1 and 2 were first year at high school. Seasons 3 and 4 were second year. In the Halloween episode of season 4, that was when we saw Ali alive for the first time. Her reunion with the girls happened over the summer break, and when they came back to Rosewood it was almost time for school. School started in episode 5 and that's when we saw the liars as seniors. I'm pretty sure that that this isn't accurate at all. I think I automatically convinced myself with that so I don't have to keep wondering! That's how I see it for myself as well. I stopped being frurstrated with the timeline a while ago and just pretty much make up my own and ignore the really obvious holes. Probably the easiest thing to do... Link to comment
Lii March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Every time they started shouting about Mike being just a kid I started shouting back SO ARE YOU, ASSHOLES!!!!! They're all of two years older than him and all of the sudden they're these uber wise sages who know the difference between right and wrong and the best way to deal with A at all times? GTFO with that nonsense. 3 Link to comment
DigitalCount March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Oh man, the surprise witness thing. Don't these people have lawyers who work for them? I watched this on the website page for ABC, and the actual description had the surprise witness part. DigitalCountess and I had a good long laugh over that. Of course, given that it's apparently common knowledge that Ali didn't get kidnapped, maybe the lawyer lady just gave up at that point. I know I might if I was living in this freaking town. So was A in the courtroom? That bullseye text was incredibly timely, and one would think they had their bags scanned before entering. So although Andrew and Charles mean the same thing, I'm not ready to contemplate the main bad guy being this Johnny-come-lately with boundary issues. How unsatisfying would that be? Also, what the heck is his problem? I remember thinking he was a bit off when he demanded a snack from Spencer that one time, but that was far from being as ridiculous as this. All the archery mentions made me ill. Secret family members are always stupid after the first one. Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 (edited) I don't think we were ever supposed to root for the liars because they were underdogs, but because they were unreliable narrators. We've been seeing the story from their side from day 1. I don't agree that they are unreliable narrators. Just because most of the scenes involve them doesn't mean they are unreliable narrators. The narrative inconsistencies, in my opinion, are due to bad writing, not some deliberate artistic approach. We believed them when they thought Toby is A and every character they suspected all the way to the Ezra reveal. We even almost believed them when Ali was acting all queen bee again and they thought she was A. Not sure what your point is. I doubt many viewers believe that when the Liars think somebody is A then it must be true. Are you saying Ali, Toby, Ezra and so on weren't actually that sketchy? Because we have seen many scenes not from the point of view of any of the Liars in which those characters did some awful things, so the unreliable narrator trope doesn't really apply. There's obviously a huge piece of the puzzle that we, and the liars, don't have. And that's A's side. Which I'm looking forward to learn. A's motives are unknown, yes. But I see only two options. The first one is A being pissed at the liars for something completely insignificant compared to the retribution A has unleashed on them. Something like "you once said that my fashion sense is bad, so I will make your lives hell". Or they will completely rewrite the Liars and show us the retcon, excuse me, revelation that they did something appalling (of the magnitude of murder) which they conveniently never bothered mentioning even in the private conversations they often have on the topic of why A is after them. The first one makes A an utterly pathetic lunatic, the second one makes the whole show a cheat and destroys the characterization of the four main protagonists completely, so I am hoping they pick option number one. Every time they started shouting about Mike being just a kid I started shouting back SO ARE YOU, ASSHOLES!!!!! I did that exact same thing. Not to mention being a kid is a good thing in this case as it might prevent Mike from getting punished by the authorities... People on IMDB mentioned that the injured arm thing is probably a homage to To Kill a Mockingbird. I watched that movie ages ago but as far as I recall, the injury of the defendant was ignored because the jury was racist and biased, not because his attorney was a moron who couldn't do anything properly. Totally different situation. I wish PLL writers would stop with these "homages" or at least do them properly. Edited March 19, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe 3 Link to comment
Preity March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 A's motives are unknown, yes. But I see only two options. The first one is A being pissed at the liars for something completely insignificant compared to the retribution A has unleashed on them. Something like "you once said that my fashion sense is bad, so I will make your lives hell". Or they will completely rewrite the Liars and show us the retcon, excuse me, revelation that they did something appalling (of the magnitude of murder) which they conveniently never bothered mentioning even in the private conversations they often have on the topic of why A is after them. The first one makes A an utterly pathetic lunatic, the second one makes the whole show a cheat and destroys the characterization of the four main protagonists completely, so I am hoping they pick option number one. A third option could be that A was always jealous of Ali and her group, their seemingly perfect lives, their 'fame', while A himself/herself never had that, was always unpopular, an outsider. Or A could just be a bored psychopath, who discovered Mona's game and carried on with it. (Not what I personally believe, but it's a possibility.) At this point I have absolutely no clue what any of them could have done that was so bad, A would want to torture them for years. Mona, yes, I got her reasons, but someone else willing to put in so much time torturing them? That's a full time job. You would really have to hate them or be really sick to do that without a really good reason. 1 Link to comment
raytch March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I don't agree that they are unreliable narrators. Just because most of the scenes involve them doesn't mean they are unreliable narrators. The narrative inconsistencies, in my opinion, are due to bad writing, not some deliberate artistic approach. I'm not referring to the bad writing and narrative inconsistencies, there's too many of them that if we wanna start dissecting every single one, the story no longer holds. I know that this is where you were going to with your earlier post, and I admit that it's very frustrating. However, at this point, I'm just interested in the main storyline and what's going to unfold in the coming seasons. This is a TV show, so a lot of times the creators and writers are under a lot of pressure to deliver certain things. The best example would be the EzrA reveal, which was slolwly built up and then diverted and resolved as quickly, mostly because the fans could not live without Ezria. What I meant with the liars being unreliable narrators, is that the writers are only showing us their side. They are more or less reliable (as in they're not mentally ill, constantly drunk etc...), but the fact that we only see their side in their war against A, means that we are not getting the full story, which makes our perspective as skewed as theirs What we've seen from A is a bunch of minions, and innumerable twisted, sick, psychotic acts (the texts, the body parts packages, the manipulation etc etc etc) As viewers, we get a few pieces of information before the liars do, but it's mostly to keep us engaged and anticipate how the liars are going to reach that revelation themselves. Not sure what your point is. I doubt many viewers believe that when the Liars think somebody is A then it must be true. Are you saying Ali, Toby, Ezra and so on weren't actually that sketchy? Because we have seen many scenes not from the point of view of any of the Liars in which those characters did some awful things, so the unreliable narrator trope doesn't really apply. They were sketchy, but while the liars thought their sketchiness meant they were A, it eventually meant something else: Ian was trying to protect his ass about those creepy stalky videos he took of the liars over the years. He was involved in Ali's "murder" but he was not A. Toby was acting as a double agent to help protect the liars, and later blackmailed -the same way Lucas and Wilden were - , in exchange for information about his mother's death. Ezra was doing his True Crime Novel. Mona started this A game to eventually lose it for someone else. Her goal was to bully the liars the same way they bullied her for years. Shana wanted revenge for all the horrible things Ali and the liars did to Jenna. Mrs. D had viable information on who A was and was killed before she could spill the beans. Cece turned out to be working with Alison and doing paid favors for Ezra. 1 Link to comment
bettername2come March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 And I must say, when Caleb and Ezra were dodging arrows I immediately thought "what the hell is Oliver Queen doing in Rosewood?!" Well that's one explanation of what the A stands for. Or it's Allison Argent. She was still alive in whatever year this show takes place in. Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 A third option could be that A was always jealous of Ali and her group, their seemingly perfect lives, their 'fame', while A himself/herself never had that, was always unpopular, an outsider. Isn't that a variation of the first option? At this point I have absolutely no clue what any of them could have done that was so bad, A would want to torture them for years. Mona, yes, I got her reasons I didn't buy Mona's reasons, either. "They stole Hanna from me" is sheer nonsense because the A texts began before Hanna had even talked to Aria in the pilot. And in any event the main reason why Hanna became more distant from Mona is because she thought she couldn't talk about A-related stuff with her. Well, that and Mona being a bully to everyone else. This is a TV show, so a lot of times the creators and writers are under a lot of pressure to deliver certain things. The best example would be the EzrA reveal, which was slolwly built up and then diverted and resolved as quickly, mostly because the fans could not live without Ezria. What makes you think they didn't plan it that way in the first place? Personally, I doubt they ever intended to go all the way with EzrA because it's not like the backlash from a certain portion of the fandom couldn't have been surprising to anyone. They were sketchy, but while the liars thought their sketchiness meant they were A, it eventually meant something else: They were doing some pretty terrible thing, nevertheless. No matter whose the point of view it has been shown through, it is certain that A has murdered people, framed people for murder, has many counts of attempted murder, etc. Apparently Marlene King recently said that "the viewers will feel really bad for A" after the reveal, so I expect some sob story but I very much doubt I would feel any pity for A. It was bad enough when they tried it with Mona, who, as far as we know at least, hasn't murdered anyone. 1 Link to comment
MissL March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Cece turned out to be working with Alison and doing paid favors for Ezra. Ha. Well that sounds dirtier than you maybe meant it to. 2 Link to comment
Preity March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 I didn't buy Mona's reasons, either. "They stole Hanna from me" is sheer nonsense because the A texts began before Hanna had even talked to Aria in the pilot. And in any event the main reason why Hanna became more distant from Mona is because she thought she couldn't talk about A-related stuff with her. Well, that and Mona being a bully to everyone else. That part is true, I never understood the 'they stole Hanna from me' thing. But Mona was bullied by Alison and also by the others. I can understand why she wanted to get revenge. She became a completely new person once Alison was gone and the group fell apart. But you can't just forget being bullied like that. She could never be her true self with Ali and her Minijobs around. I don't get why she befriended Hanna in the first place after Alison disappeared and then began torturing her anyway. But that's probably necessary for the story to work. 1 Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Only Alison bullied Mona, she had no reason whatsoever to hate Aria, Spencer, Emily and Hanna. Mild dislike for not stopping Alison, sure, but it's not like anyone else moved a finger either. I don't get why she befriended Hanna in the first place after Alison disappeared and then began torturing her anyway. I don't get why she became a prototypical mean girl and was so desperate to be popular at school either. Mona is too smart for me to buy that she wanted to "become like Alison". Of course, everyone in this show behaves as if Alison is this incredibly charismatic, larger than life, figure. Which she isn't. 1 Link to comment
Preity March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Sure, Alison was the one doing the real bullying. The others just went along with it, laughed about it, it's not much better than what Alison did. I don't think the people who stand by and admire the bully are any better than the bully. I would hate Alisons possy if I had been the one they had laughed at. Are the other girls really innocent when it comes to the Jenna thing, just because they weren't the ones to actually blind Jenna? Going along with things that are wrong makes you responsible as well. It's a story. If it was a typical high school no one would watch it. Of course everyone looks at Ali like she's a celebrity. And in a way she is, everyone knows her, even if only because they are afraid of her. Nothing on this show is realistic, that's just something you have to accept - with pretty much every show on tv. Who knows, maybe Mona's goal wasn't to become the new Alison, maybe that was just part of her plan. But even if it wasn't, why shouldn't she want to be the new queen bee? From loser Mona to queen bee, that's a new life for her. Maybe she had fun playing that mean girl role. Link to comment
kitmerlot1213 March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 Caleb and Hanna continue to be adorable together and his devotion to her is gorgeous to see and I especially liked him telling Ezra off--that needs to happen more often. Ali's lawyer is lacking in awesomeness which is a shame because she was superb as Kevin Tran's mom on Supernatural. I am crossing my fingers that the A reveal won't be lame. 1 Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe March 19, 2015 Share March 19, 2015 (edited) Sure, Alison was the one doing the real bullying. The others just went along with it, laughed about it, it's not much better than what Alison did. Yes, it is. And you are extrapolating a bit too much from (I assume) Aria giggling in that flashback of Mona trying to follow. I don't recall seeing any flashbacks of Spencer, Emily and Hanna laughing while Alison bullied someone. Of course, in real mean girl posses the leader would encourage or even force her minions to join the bullying "fun" but in PLL all they did was not stopping Alison. Well, that and Aria laughing that one time. Are the other girls really innocent when it comes to the Jenna thing, just because they weren't the ones to actually blind Jenna? No, they are innocent because they were told something completely different was going to unfold. If a friend tells you he is going to spray someone with a water pistol as a prank but instead pulls a gun and shoots the guy dead, does that make you an accessory to murder? Of course not. But even if it wasn't, why shouldn't she want to be the new queen bee? Why would she? She is wicked smart, her parents are rich and she didn't even bother getting any mean girl minions. What's the point? Alison enjoys lording it over other people, Mona... not so much. Of course, on TV being popular at school is usually almost literally a matter of life and death. It just didn't fit well with Mona's personality, IMO. And it all became even sillier in season 5 with Mona's "army" and Alison's new minions. After the first few death bodies, you would think those two wouldn't care so much about who is respected more at school. Edited March 19, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe 1 Link to comment
Perfect Xero March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 Yes, it is. And you are extrapolating a bit too much from (I assume) Aria giggling in that flashback of Mona trying to follow. I don't recall seeing any flashbacks of Spencer, Emily and Hanna laughing while Alison bullied someone. Of course, in real mean girl posses the leader would encourage or even force her minions to join the bullying "fun" but in PLL all they did was not stopping Alison. Well, that and Aria laughing that one time. The girls also went along with "If you ignore it, it will go away". Eventually you're responsible for the company you keep. They all knew that Ali was a bully, they all stood there and, at best, said nothing and marched off after her while Alison treated people like Mona, Lucas, and Paige like absolute shit time after time. No, they are innocent because they were told something completely different was going to unfold. If a friend tells you he is going to spray someone with a water pistol as a prank but instead pulls a gun and shoots the guy dead, does that make you an accessory to murder? Of course not. It does if you help them get away with it after the fact. 3 Link to comment
hqtextbook March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 Ha. Well that sounds dirtier than you maybe meant it to. Nah Ezras not into adults... 2 Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 So ..... is Talia still living at Emily's house. Because when Emily's mom comes home only to find her daughter in jail and a stranger living in her house, I'm sure she will have some questions. </snark> 3 Link to comment
lorikauai March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 (edited) I always thought Mona chose to be a queen bee as a way to hide in plain sight. It was always just a mask. She enjoys playing games with people and manipulating them. She also used it as a way to befriend Hanna. I don't think Mona necessarily cared about the popularity (besides how she could use it) but she knew Hanna did. Hanna wanted to be Ali. I also don't know that Mona's motive in being A was ever really revenge. It was a game for her. In Radley she said she missed playing with her dolls. Edited March 20, 2015 by lorikauai Link to comment
mercfan3 March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 (edited) I thought it was pretty obvious that Mona liked being popular. She liked feeling superior to everyone else. She liked the power. She's a brain, but she was also a teenager. And I think Mona being A was out of fear. She used A to get rid of Ali, and she was trying to use A to split the girls up, but it didn't work. Edited March 20, 2015 by mercfan3 1 Link to comment
Jack Shaftoe March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 The girls also went along with "If you ignore it, it will go away". Eventually you're responsible for the company you keep. They all knew that Ali was a bully, they all stood there and, at best, said nothing and marched off after her while Alison treated people like Mona, Lucas, and Paige like absolute shit time after time. This is all true but still I think that being friends with the bully is a whole different ball game than being the bully. It does if you help them get away with it after the fact. I am not sure how it works in terms of legal consequences, but morally helping cover up a crime is quite different than helping commit a crime, IMO. Simply put, the Jenna thing was par for the course for Alison, while it is by far the worst thing the Liars ever did, so I get rather annoyed when people start saying there isn't much difference than Alison and the other four girls. 1 Link to comment
raytch March 20, 2015 Share March 20, 2015 Mona wanted the power that came with being the most popular, the 'it' girl. I agree with laurikauai, it was her way of hiding in plain sight. Remember when she had that great scene with Ezra? When they both started threatening each other using very casual sentences? Then eventually Ezra told her that she is the only student who has figured out a way to not live in fear. Then he bullied her into becoming his minion! Link to comment
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