Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[BitterApple]

I've never seen someone so giddy over the death of an innocent, premature baby. Jill uses more exclamation points than a seventh grade girl writing in her diary.

[Churchhoney]

 

 

Every time I think of anyone considering children 'vipers', I get stabby. And I'm a pacifist.

Why do so many with personality disorders consider themselves as ethically superior? Just wondering.

 

 

 

Well, it's the thinking yourself superior that kind of is the personality disorder in a lot of these cases, I guess. It's also interesting that they all think Jesus is really down with this.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Churchhoney

[BitterApple]

Am I the only one who reads this and thinks that that the Rodriguii beat little Timothy over every damn thing he did as a kid? I'd like to proverbially punch her every time I read .......smile.

http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=2449

A whiny toddler?! Shocking! I have a feeling Timothy went without food because there wasn't enough to go around and he wanted his younger siblings to eat. I know teenage boys sprout up fast and are lanky as a result, but Timothy looks like he hasn't had a decent meal since he was inside the womb.

[louannems]

Am I the only one who reads this and thinks that that the Rodriguii beat little Timothy over every damn thing he did as a kid? I'd like to proverbially punch her every time I read .......smile.

http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=2449

After reading I Fired God, and Girl At The End Of The World, and the Pearl's child training books, I CRINGE when I read "godly" people speak of training their kids. I'm sure poor Timothy was corrected often for his sins.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I had to wonder about the bit where dirt got everywhere while she planted a "garden" in pots with her kids. That actually sounds like a fun, useful, and educational project, but though she talked about how great an experience it was, she seems even more worried that her husband would "have a heart attack" if  he came home to the resulting mess. But luckily she was on hand with the broom, mop, bucket, etc, so that "no one would be the wiser". 

 

Really? A gardening project with a dozen (or even half a dozen, if a few opted out) cannot leave a trace of ever having been? What if Mr. Headship came home to a happy scene of a kid saying, "hey, Daddy, look what we made!" while there was a sprinkle of potting soil on the back steps or some other bit of cleanup still to be done? To say nothing of a wife who looked anything less than 100% lacquered into some perfect representation of the godly helpmeet.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Jynnan tonnix

[GeeGolly]

We see JB act in narcissistic manners, however from we see he doesn't meet the criteria for a true diagnosis. There is also Paranoid Personality Disorder which many of the Duggars show traits of, however the traits they show are learned and based in their spiritual beliefs.

 

Folks with personality disorders tend to have the same problems with self-esteem as most do - it fluctuates. However the fluctuation may feel more impactful.

 

Maybe it is all smoke and mirrors and JB found a religion to mask his disorder. But there are all kinds of personalities out there, and all kinds of folks that gravitate toward religious extremes, and probably most do not have a diagnosable personality disorder. It's more likely that a leader of a cult would have a personality disorder.

 

I think that JB is an average dude who believes in, and finds comfort in, an extreme religion and acts accordingly.

[NewDigs]

Am I the only one who reads this and thinks that that the Rodriguii beat little Timothy over every damn thing he did as a kid? I'd like to proverbially punch her every time I read .......smile.

http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?p=2449

"YET……….even when David and I felt bone weary and could not believe we were having to deal with yet another “strong – willed” moment in our son, we would (by God’s grace and power) consistently correct it every time. We tried not to let the “little errors” go by, but rather show him the error of his ways with each and every small and big thing.

With some children, you feel that you just correct a few times and they magically just “catch on”. With others, consistency time and time again is crucial!! As they grow, you should see a growth in them in their understanding of their erroneous ways and you should see growth in their spiritual lives. It has NOT come easy in the life of our Timothy, but I can say, he brings us SO much joy now.

Nope. Not just you.

Edited April 16, 2016 by NewDigs

[Jynnan tonnix]

"YET……….even when David and I felt bone weary and could not believe we were having to deal with yet another “strong – willed” moment in our son, we would (by God’s grace and power) consistently correct it every time. We tried not to let the “little errors” go by, but rather show him the error of his ways with each and every small and big thing.

With some children, you feel that you just correct a few times and they magically just “catch on”. With others, consistency time and time again is crucial!! As they grow, you should see a growth in them in their understanding of their erroneous ways and you should see growth in their spiritual lives. It has NOT come easy in the life of our Timothy, but I can say, he brings us SO much joy now.

Nope. Not just you.

And what makes it even worse is that "little errors" in their world equal "individuality". THAT'S what gets beaten out of them. And that is truly tragic!

[NewDigs]

I was kind of surprised she specified "little" errors.

Didn't know there was such a thing in fundie world.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I was kind of surprised she specified "little" errors.

Didn't know there was such a thing in fundie world.

True on one hand, but I think she was more meaning something like "things which you heathens might see as insignificant". Yes, sin is sin in their world, be it murder or shyness, and they feel the need to remind themselves (and everyone else) just how diligent they are in fighting its every form.

[Churchhoney]

I was kind of surprised she specified "little" errors.

Didn't know there was such a thing in fundie world.

 

Well, there aren't theoretically, but I think that in practical terms even many of these hardliners get busy and tired and don't go after every single instance. I've read this kind of admonition to such parents from the various leaders such as the Pearls and Gothard and they all stress -- as these horrendous asses are doing -- that you can't get tired or busy and let the seemingly lesser things go. Or else some kid may emerge with part of its personality intact.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Jynnan tonnix]

Well, there aren't theoretically, but I think that in practical terms even many of these hardliners get busy and tired and don't go after every single instance. I've read this kind of admonition to such parents from the various leaders such as the Pearls and Gothard and they all stress -- as these horrendous asses are doing -- that you can't get tired or busy and let the seemingly lesser things go. Or else some kid may emerge with part of its personality intact.

Bingo!

[tabloidlover]

Maybe someone should tell them that back in the days of the very first printing presses, it wasn't sales of the bible that were keeping Johannes Gutenberg afloat, but the side business he had selling printed pornographic material. That was where his money was coming from.

Do tell!  I have not heard this story and it sounds fascinating. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

Take a look at Gil Bateseseses' IBLP biography. He seems to believe it's a benefit to not have a steady job. And nineteen kids.

http://iblp.org/about-iblp/corporate-information/board-directors

Holy shit. Dr. Paine gives me the heebie jeebies. I'm sure he's an okay guy (for a fundie). How do I say this??? Um...he looks like the type to drive a windowless van and tries to hand out candy to children.

[3girlsforus]

Holy shit. Dr. Paine gives me the heebie jeebies. I'm sure he's an okay guy (for a fundie). How do I say this??? Um...he looks like the type to drive a windowless van and tries to hand out candy to children.

 

Yea he's creepy looking but at least it appears that he has a read education and a real job. I am astonished that Gil Bates' bio is so proud of the fact that he doesn't have steady income. Nowhere in the Bible does it say it is wrong to work and support your family. These people are so screwed up.

[NewDigs]

Gil Bates is a real chump, er, champ.

bold mine.

"Not only does Gil bring to the Board a wealth of practical wisdom on marriage and training up sons and daughters, but he also has a marvelous testimony about combining prayer, initiative, diligence, creativity, and patience in providing for his family. This has included a large home, a tree-trimming business with special equipment, and family transportation—all without a steady income and no debt!Gil and Kelly have taught their children how to be each other’s best friends, love family responsibilities, and maintain a grateful spirit. Over the years, they have taken their financial needs to the Lord and watched God provide opportunities for work. This has taught their children to have great faith in the Lord."

It's like they're proud of not having a steady income! Maybe it's supposed to be evidence of higher godliness.

"The first chairman was Dr. G. A. Hemwall, a physician in Oak Park, Illinois, who served on the Board for 37 years until his homegoing in November of 1998.

Soooo, homegoing is dying? Right?

And of Pastor York we learn:

"He is married to his high school sweetheart, Brenda, and they have eight children and fourteen grandchildren. Their last four children are reversal babies. Pastor York has been faithfully serving his church (now as the lead pastor) since 1992. The success in the marriages of his older children and his success in ministry bring to the Board an important aspect of counsel and guidance."

I'm afraid to ask but what is a "reversal baby"?

And these are the nutjobs Josh worked for?

[3girlsforus]

A reversal baby is a baby born after a vasectomy reversal or I guess it could be after a tubal ligation reversal but I've usually heard the term in relation to a vasectomy reversal.

Edited April 16, 2016 by 3girlsforus

[Barbie]

Gil Bates is a real chump, er, champ.

bold mine.

"Not only does Gil bring to the Board a wealth of practical wisdom on marriage and training up sons and daughters, but he also has a marvelous testimony about combining prayer, initiative, diligence, creativity, and patience in providing for his family. This has included a large home, a tree-trimming business with special equipment, and family transportation—all without a steady income and no debt!Gil and Kelly have taught their children how to be each other’s best friends, love family responsibilities, and maintain a grateful spirit. Over the years, they have taken their financial needs to the Lord and watched God provide opportunities for work. This has taught their children to have great faith in the Lord."

It's like they're proud of not having a steady income! Maybe it's supposed to be evidence of higher godliness.

"The first chairman was Dr. G. A. Hemwall, a physician in Oak Park, Illinois, who served on the Board for 37 years until his homegoing in November of 1998.

Soooo, homegoing is dying? Right?

And of Pastor York we learn:

"He is married to his high school sweetheart, Brenda, and they have eight children and fourteen grandchildren. Their last four children are reversal babies. Pastor York has been faithfully serving his church (now as the lead pastor) since 1992. The success in the marriages of his older children and his success in ministry bring to the Board an important aspect of counsel and guidance."

I'm afraid to ask but what is a "reversal baby"?

And these are the nutjobs Josh worked for?

vasectomy reversal... I think

[NewDigs]

A reversal baby is a baby born after a vasectomy reversal or I guess it could be after a tubal ligation reversal but I've usually heard the term in relation to a vasectomy reversal.

That heathen had a vasectomy???

And then he found god? Or maybe I should say, the fundie's version of god?

Wonder what would happen if a woman wanted her tubes untied. Bet the rules are different.

Edit to add quote.

Edited April 16, 2016 by NewDigs

[DangerousMinds]

He is an expert in "training up" children . . .

[flyingdi]

All I can say about this Voddie Bauchman person is that had he pulled that carp with my parents, that would have been the end of our association with that church. My parents were good people but they did not like being told what to do. And God forbid that you imply that they did not know how to raise their little vipers.

[BradandJanet]

"YET……….even when David and I felt bone weary and could not believe we were having to deal with yet another “strong – willed” moment in our son, we would (by God’s grace and power) consistently correct it every time. We tried not to let the “little errors” go by, but rather show him the error of his ways with each and every small and big thing.

With some children, you feel that you just correct a few times and they magically just “catch on”. With others, consistency time and time again is crucial!! As they grow, you should see a growth in them in their understanding of their erroneous ways and you should see growth in their spiritual lives. It has NOT come easy in the life of our Timothy, but I can say, he brings us SO much joy now.

Nope. Not just you.

 

I'd like to know what David Rodrigues does every day that makes him feel "bone weary." It's not like the man has a commute and a full-time job exactly. 

[NewDigs]

I'd like to know what David Rodrigues does every day that makes him feel "bone weary." It's not like the man has a commute and a full-time job exactly.

Hey! It's a lot of work to beat the "hell" out of your strong-willed children.

[JoanArc]

I'd like to know what David Rodrigues does every day that makes him feel "bone weary." It's not like the man has a commute and a full-time job exactly. 

Be married to Jill.

[louannems]

As they grow, you should see a growth in them in their understanding of their erroneous ways and you should see growth in their spiritual lives.

Wouldn't this understanding happen anyway, as kids grow and mature, without all that "correcting"? Can you imagine constantly beating 12 kids living in an RV? Those R kids must have a horrible life. And then there is all that hairspray.

[kalamac]

Do tell!  I have not heard this story and it sounds fascinating. 

I read it in this article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18888_5-ways-porn-created-modern-world.html

Can you imagine if any these families decided that porn was the way to make money. (Please don't imagine that, it's not pleasant.)

[Jynnan tonnix]

I read it in this article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18888_5-ways-porn-created-modern-world.html

Can you imagine if any these families decided that porn was the way to make money. (Please don't imagine that, it's not pleasant.)

Warnings should come before the things they are meant to shield you from. Darn. Now I need the brain bleach again!

[3girlsforus]

Can anyone help me understand WHY it's important to announce to ANYONE how many children in his family were conceived after a vasectomy reversal? Am I supposed to think he's such an incredible stud that even modern day surgery can't keep his little swimmers from hooking up with his wife's holy ova?

I think it's to prove that God wants these people to have babies so much that if they fork over the money for the reversal they will get lots more babies which is apparently the whole point of Gotharism. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

I find it extremely odd when anyone requires a Duggar or Rodrigii level of control in order to find sufficient comfort to cope with life. Perhaps they are not quite diagnosable, but surely they can't be the most evolved personalities and are something short of being in the pink of mental health.

I think the people who first called it "religious fanaticism " were on to something. Not sure if the DSM actually considers this a medical disorder on its own..but can likely be part of determining a diagnosis of narcissism or sociopathy.

I don't think the Duggari or Rodriguii or Maxwelli level of control gives anyone a level of comfort to cope with life..unless one finds comfort in misery and compulsively cleaning and polishing everything as in the Maxwellian world. Duggari and Rodriguii species have been observed to eschew cleaning, though espouse packaged food items and frumpwear similarly to the Maxwelli.

I'm thinking about David Attenborough and all those wonderful nature documentaries he voiced over...I'm sure his voiced over documentary of Fundamentalis would put TLC in ratings gold territory.

They definitely aren't evolved (because... Creation Museum) and def not in the pink of mental health...one look at Medicated Michelle should tell us all we need to know.

[Arwen Evenstar]

The ONLY thing interesting to me about the Fundies is their obvious psychopathies.

I wuv you! Your snark is pure gold!!!!

[Arwen Evenstar]

I've never seen someone so giddy over the death of an innocent, premature baby. Jill uses more exclamation points than a seventh grade girl writing in her diary.

I had to look...I have to admit I was very much saddened by the loss of that little one. I can't imagine the anguish of having to consider such a choice particularly for a child that was very much a wanted child. She could have simply said that after much prayer, her SIL and husband decided to leave it up to God...that would have sufficed....without the judgy, preachy tone that makes most of us stabby.

What struck me as beyond the bounds of good taste was the foreground of the photo...look if you dare

https://2dbdd5116ffa30a49aa8-c03f075f8191fb4e60e74b907071aee8.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/10024229_1458400393.4082.jpg

Really... a children's book with a picture of a shitter with the seat up? In front of your deceased precious little ones tiny hands and feet?

Ever heard of the crop tool? I guess they elected the crap tool...as a photographer (when I'm not being an engineer) I crop stuff out either in digital or when printing black and white all the time..I have no words....I'm gob smacked!

I could allow that with their grief they might have done this accidentally...but for someone who owns a printing business...I won't give these Rodriguii a pass for posting without cropping. You don't even need Photoshop to fix this.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[JoanArc]

 

unless one finds comfort in misery and compulsively cleaning and polishing everything as in the Maxwellian world.

There's a great deal of pleasure to be found for the person ordering them all to do it.

[3girlsforus]

The most offensive thing, of all the offensive things, in the Rodriguii post about the stillborn baby it that it isn't her baby! It isn't her story to tell or her decision to boast about. It is a very difficult thing to go through and she has no right to post about how they made the only acceptable choice and yippee isn't it wonderful. Even if her SIL and husband never thought there was a decision to be made and knew they would carry to term no matter what, the whole pregnancy, birth, and loss is most likely the most painful thing they have ever been through. And along comes Rodriguii the Stupid who posts in near giddy fashion how wonderful it is. It's like pouring alcohol on the open wound. 

[sometimesy]

I think it's to prove that God wants these people to have babies so much that if they fork over the money for the reversal they will get lots more babies which is apparently the whole point of Gotharism. 

It is the cult of babies. Not loving and raising them, just producing them and strong-arming them into doing the same. Look at Jessa's immodest tops during pregnancy. It's all about the bump. How they pose with their babies, not cuddling, but posing them out full body towards the camera. There is nothing to this cult but breeding to control votes imo of course. 

 

I love how they describe the kids as outstanding. Based on what? That blip included Josh and a lot of uneducated sons and daughters. 

 

When those little girls imitate Jill with that stupid voice, I just want to run in and save them. 

[BradandJanet]

It's horrifying to think that JRod is/was Mistress of the SOTDRT. She's a couple steps above functionally illiterate. I can't imagine how poorly educated those kids are. 

[mimionthebeach]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_You_Forever

I had to look...I have to admit I was very much saddened by the loss of that little one. I can't imagine the anguish of having to consider such a choice particularly for a child that was very much a wanted child. She could have simply said that after much prayer, her SIL apmnd husband decided to leave it up to God...that would have sufficed....without the judgy, preachy tone that makes most of us stabby.

What struck me as beyond the bounds of good taste was the foreground of the photo...look if you dare

https://2dbdd5116ffa30a49aa8-c03f075f8191fb4e60e74b907071aee8.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/10024229_1458400393.4082.jpg

Really... a children's book with a picture of a shitter with the seat up? In front of your deceased precious little ones tiny hands and feet?

Ever heard of the crop tool? I guess they elected the crap tool...as a photographer (when I'm not being an engineer) I crop stuff out either in digital or when printing black and white all the time..I have no words....I'm gob smacked!

I could allow that with their grief they might have done this accidentally...but for someone who owns a printing business...I won't give these Rodriguii a pass for posting without cropping. You don't even need Photoshop to fix this.

Actually, the book in the photo is a deliberate choice, the cover notwithstanding. I could never read this book to my kids without crying. The author wrote it after he and his wife suffered two stillbirths.

Edited April 18, 2016 by mimionthebeach

[Arwen Evenstar]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_You_Forever

Actually, the book in the photo is a deliberate choice, the cover notwithstanding. I could never read this book to my kids without crying. The author wrote it after he and his wife suffered two stillbirths.

OMG...I wasn't even aware there was such a book...thanks for educating me.

[wait.what]

That book has a beautiful line, "I'll love you forever, I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my baby you'll be."

The mom says this to her child throughout his life. As an infant, toddler, school-age, teen and adult. Then when the child is a grown man, he says to his old, sick mom, "I'll love you forever, I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my mommy you'll be."

It really is a sweet book. I read it to both my boys.

[pinkelephant3]

.

[Arwen Evenstar]

It's horrifying to think that JRod is/was Mistress of the SOTDRT. She's a couple steps above functionally illiterate. I can't imagine how poorly educated those kids are.

How could they learn anything even if JRod was a Rhodes scholar? The poor little mites are famished...they need a decent meal in their bellies and a soft bed...not a seat on a stink bus breathing in all that hairspray ... to learn and thrive!

Time to hold up protest signs...Free the Rodriguii Children! Feed the Rodriguii Children!

Edited April 18, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[farmgal4]

A whiny toddler?! Shocking! I have a feeling Timothy went without food because there wasn't enough to go around and he wanted his younger siblings to eat. I know teenage boys sprout up fast and are lanky as a result, but Timothy looks like he hasn't had a decent meal since he was inside the womb.

His father, on the other hand, looks like he's due to deliver any day now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_You_Forever

Actually, the book in the photo is a deliberate choice, the cover notwithstanding. I could never read this book to my kids without crying. The author wrote it after he and his wife suffered two stillbirths.

Oh yes, that book turns on the waterworks every time I read it.

[MunichNark]

Do the Maxhells not travel as much as they used to? I'm sad enough to have trawled through their blog a bit and the last entry I could see was Sept 15. Can we rightly (or should that be righteously??) hope that these engagements are drying up?

 

Just what do they do all day? No wonder those few married brothers are forever "inviting" them to do their work for them, there's eff all else to do. No jobs, no friends, no hobbies permitted. A house full of adults must be hard.......an that eldest girl is what, 35?? She'll never marry or have kids, is that really what they want for them?

[Joe Jitsu913]

Do the Maxhells not travel as much as they used to? I'm sad enough to have trawled through their blog a bit and the last entry I could see was Sept 15. Can we rightly (or should that be righteously??) hope that these engagements are drying up?

Just what do they do all day? No wonder those few married brothers are forever "inviting" them to do their work for them, there's eff all else to do. No jobs, no friends, no hobbies permitted. A house full of adults must be hard.......an that eldest girl is what, 35?? She'll never marry or have kids, is that really what they want for them?

The only hope for the younger Maxhells is for Steve to kick the bucket. Maybe then they'd have a chance at freedom and normalcy.

[Portia]

That book has a beautiful line, "I'll love you forever, I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my baby you'll be."

The mom says this to her child throughout his life. As an infant, toddler, school-age, teen and adult. Then when the child is a grown man, he says to his old, sick mom, "I'll love you forever, I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my mommy you'll be."

It really is a sweet book. I read it to both my boys.

Here come the waterworks! ::dabs eyes::  When my son was younger he would request this book every.single.night because he knew I would cry every.single.time. For some reason this was highly amusing to him. 

 

In a strange coincidence, a family in my area just suffered the unbelievably tragic loss of both mother and a nearly full-term unborn baby, and this tragedy has been playing out in social media. My husband and I were aghast to see that the dad had posted a picture of himself posing with the dead baby.  Mind you, that is not a choice I understand at all. But ultimately, it was the man's choice to make. There's a world of difference between you deciding to make something public and someone else making that decision for you.

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, the Maxwells got rid of Uriah and if they do conferences now, they take a van. They also just take the van for their yearly jaunt to Colorado.

[Sew Sumi]

Good luck getting out the vote for Cruz, Maxwells. LMAO

 

http://blog.titus2.com/2016/04/18/new-yorkers-please-vote/

[Arwen Evenstar]

As always with everything, they claim it's 'for the chiiiiildren'.

Because the rest of us 'UNGODLIES' don't care about anyone's children.

Ignorance beyond belief.

The chiiiiiiiiiiiildren? Oh, didn't one Fundie just call them vipers?

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that was ole Voddie Baucham. 

 

As for the Maxwells' efforts to get out the vote, NY was called for Drumpf about five seconds after the polls closed. 

[Sew Sumi]

It's Big Sandy time again, y'all! Check out the riveting list of speakers and speeches. No Duggars this year, only Bateseseseses and TFDW, whose job title is now "Director of ATI," ORLY?????

 

http://familyconferences.org/events/family-conference/big-sandy-2016/

 

eta: Favorite speech title: "Beware of Pitching Your Tent Toward Sodom"  by the Bateseseseses. Because I'm 12. :D

Edited April 20, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[BitterApple]

Speaking of the Bateseseses, I was looking at their Instagram today and they have an open invitation posted for Trace and Carlin's graduation party. Who does that? Every graduation party I've ever been to has been for family and friends, not random strangers. Why don't they just come out and say "send us money and gifts and stuff!"? Because it feels rather grifty to me.

Should we take bets on which Fundie daughter has the first public baby shower?

Edited April 20, 2016 by BitterApple