Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[becca3891]

I think Jill is hoping with all her heart that they get picked up for a reality show. In her mind, she probably thinks the so-called printing ministry is fascinating enough to warrant a show. And the cynical part of me had to wonder what was up when she cryptically said she was stepping back from videos and updates about her quadriplegic sister, so that the sister and family could decide on their own terms what to share with the public. I wonder if it occurred to Jill -- and she may even have a point -- that quadriplegia combined with big family/homeschooling was a new angle for a show. Of course, she'd have to figure out some way to make herself as prominent as possible.

Edited March 6, 2016 by becca3891

[NewDigs]

Crucifixion Cosmetics?

 

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

With Christ on the Cross red lipstick.

And Heavenly Blue eye shadow.

[GeeGolly]

With Christ on the Cross red lipstick.

And Heavenly Blue eye shadow.

Glory of God Gold - nail polish

 

Consecrated Coral - blush

[Arwen Evenstar]

Beaming Countenance Face Powder

[JoanArc]

Exposed as a Molester Blush

[Jynnan tonnix]

Crucifixion Cosmetics?

 

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

 

With Christ on the Cross red lipstick.

And Heavenly Blue eye shadow.

 

I'm just picturing a commercial here with "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" playing merrily in the background.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Persecution Pink.Lipstick

Defrauder Red nail polish

Tater Tot Casserole shade of eyeshadow

All applied by Jill Rod in a cloud of aqua net

[RedPonyDriver]

If you read the reviews on Yelp and places like that, the "Christ-centered" businesses get crap reviews...

[Arwen Evenstar]

I'd like to know why many of these women don't seem to cook very well and many of their kids appear messy/dirty. Certainly not ALL but many of them really struggle with basic homemaking skills...especially when they make such a huge fuss about "keepers of the home."Maybe stop blogging, posting, going to IHOP, Starbucks etc. and actually KEEP YOUR HOME.

Yeah, you're right. It's the Fundie paradox....at least us heathen full time working wives have an excuse for not cleaning the house and not providing their headship with 3 hots and joyful availability on the cot on demand.

That said, I'm sure many of these women are overwhelmed and lost the ability to manage their brood after the 2 or 3 kids most heathens stop at. I'm sure a good many of the are severely depressed but wouldn't be encouraged to seek treatment...because...patriarchy

[Catlyn]

As a devout believer in the germ theory, I'm righteously shocked and offended that she did not wash her hands after using the toilet and then touched surfaces in a place that serves food.

LOL! Like many others, this is the part of the story that upset me the most. The person was not going to hit on her, bite or anything else. Wash your hands!  The person was apparently covered up, she was in a stall, so no grabbing of pearls was needed. And her husband was furious? Why? Nothing happened, and it seemed from the conversations with the manager, police, etc nothing ever had happened. If she was that upset and truly as Christian as she says she was, she should have given the person a tract and shown them the error of their ways.  Probably upset that poor transgender woman, but at least Jill would be able to show she's concerned for everyone's soul even poor "sinners".

 

I would prefer she did nothing, but wash her hands and leave the bathroom and other person in peace and say nothing. You know, as regular people do when going to the bathroom. But, if you are going to be a "gung-ho" Christian, than be it and stop spouting bible verses from the Old Testament and start living the New. 

[Barb23]

I guess as a mother of 12, it hasn't occurred to her to carry hand sanitizer or some type of wipes in her purse. I guess they are in the diaper bag that one of the daughters has to lug around (like the J'slaves had to.)

[Aja]

Fundamentally, I will never understand the homosexuality thing. Yes, it says some bullshit in Leviticus, but the same chapter contains tons of ridiculous 'guidelines' about stoning your neighbor to death for wearing two different fibers at the same time or how to sell your daughter into slavery, and nobody feels any great need to be purist and literal about THOSE things. Such an obsessive preoccupation with people who literally have zero effect on their lives  (apart from how much the existence of homosexuality offends them because Jesus) is one of the weirdest things about these people. I hate to be basic but it's like an entire movement built around the "methinks thou dost protest too much" adage. I just can't think of any other reasonable explanation, other than people are inexplicably terrified by the possibility of their own proclivities. I'd love to know which section of the Bible makes Jill R feel justified in dropping such contemptuous, instant judgement on someone based entirely on appearance.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Aja

[sr7698]

I was watching the most recent episode of Bringing Up Bates where they went to the beach and I couldn't help but notice how much healthier/cleaner/happier the Bates kids seem compared to these other fundy families (especially after watching the hair-styling video with the Rodrigues family).  Even comparing them to the Duggars (who presumably have more money and are not currently living out of a trailer a la Rodrigues'), the Bates kids just seem better cared for. 

[BitterApple]

With the Bates family, Gil and Kelly are hands on with their kids and all family members pitch in, not just the four eldest girls. The Bates girls don't have that aura of bitterness and resentment that you see in the J'Slaves.

There was an episode last season when they went to visit Gil's parents, and each kid was responsible for packing their own suitcase *gasp* even the boys. I think the Bates kids are expected to assume some level of personal responsibility whereas the Duggar motto is "Jana will take care of it."

Edited March 7, 2016 by BitterApple

[RazzleberryPie]

So many people 'need' an enemy or antagonist, and need some cause to make them feel superior. I really think a lot of people who have a complete hatred of 'others' think this way. Sadly, many of them hide behind religion, politics, etc and have no idea why they actually hate. They pick apart some small piece of the bible or constitution or whatever, and go apeshit fanatic, instead of just living their lives.

[GeeGolly]

I was watching the most recent episode of Bringing Up Bates where they went to the beach and I couldn't help but notice how much healthier/cleaner/happier the Bates kids seem compared to these other fundy families (especially after watching the hair-styling video with the Rodrigues family).  Even comparing them to the Duggars (who presumably have more money and are not currently living out of a trailer a la Rodrigues'), the Bates kids just seem better cared for. 

One thing I found odd about watching that Bates episode is that they kept referring to all their other memories at the beach, but never showed clips or pictures of them at the beach before. I know I saw the Bates family at the beach at least once before. They explained how they would look for a less populated area as not to see scantily dressed females, and one of the boys said he knows some people think that they're odd for swimming fully dressed (he had on jeans & a T). This time the boys were swimming in board shorts and a T, and the girls were wearing a mix of things. They never made mention of their relaxed modesty rules.

 

I can't figure out if they didn't show clips and pictures because they were filmed on another network or if they avoided it to not show the drastic difference in their beach attire. Just struck me as odd.

[becca3891]

One thing I found odd about watching that Bates episode is that they kept referring to all their other memories at the beach, but never showed clips or pictures of them at the beach before. I know I saw the Bates family at the beach at least once before. They explained how they would look for a less populated area as not to see scantily dressed females, and one of the boys said he knows some people think that they're odd for swimming fully dressed (he had on jeans & a T). This time the boys were swimming in board shorts and a T, and the girls were wearing a mix of things. They never made mention of their relaxed modesty rules.

 

I can't figure out if they didn't show clips and pictures because they were filmed on another network or if they avoided it to not show the drastic difference in their beach attire. Just struck me as odd.

I think they were specifically referring to that particular beach house, which I believe I heard someone saying they hadn't been to in about eight years, before they were ever filmed. I do remember them being at a beach in an episode from last year maybe when they were visiting Alyssa, but I think it was only some of them and not the whole family. I think it was a pretty quick segment and probably not really worth showing clips from. I don't think their beach attire has changed much. The girls were still wearing swim shirts and skirts, but I did notice that the skirt was not quite knee length on one of the teen girls. Tori, maybe? So I wouldn't be surprised if they have decided not to at least on their show obsess endlessly about it. So yay for that! We know for sure that three of the teen/adult kids have rejected Gothard and hopefully more will.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I think they were specifically referring to that particular beach house, which I believe I heard someone saying they hadn't been to in about eight years, before they were ever filmed. I do remember them being at a beach in an episode from last year maybe when they were visiting Alyssa, but I think it was only some of them and not the whole family. I think it was a pretty quick segment and probably not really worth showing clips from. I don't think their beach attire has changed much. The girls were still wearing swim shirts and skirts, but I did notice that the skirt was not quite knee length on one of the teen girls. Tori, maybe? So I wouldn't be surprised if they have decided not to at least on their show obsess endlessly about it. So yay for that! We know for sure that three of the teen/adult kids have rejected Gothard and hopefully more will.

This last sentence speaks volumes, I think...sometimes I wish I could (very, very briefly) see inside of Jim Bob or Michelle's heads when it comes to their families vs those of other people in their circle of experience.

 

The Bates' kids are clearly better adjusted and have actual futures open for them, but at least a few seem to have either rejected or at least distanced themselves from hardcore Gothardism. However, none, as far as we know, has anything like Josh's issues.

 

The Duggars, so far, seem to have somehow kept an absolute hold on their kids' attitudes. Even Josh, after everything he has physically done, appears to still be subscribing to the rhetoric. Every one of them toes the party line.

 

Even though they claim to give the kids the choice as to whether they will adhere to things like "no holding hands before engagement or kissing before marriage", every one of them seems to find that ideal. Though there may be slip-ups such as the front-hug between Jill and Derick or the hand-holding during prayer for Jessa and Ben, none of the kids has rebelled and said that they consider the rules too stringent. They more or less back down and see it as a mistake for which they seek forgiveness.

 

For that matter, Josh's "indiscretions" don't seem to be seen as any worse...a sin is a sin, and Christians are forgiven for all of those equally.

 

So, question being, do the Duggars see their family as the more successful illustration of the Gothard ideal because while they have had at least one major blowup, no one has left the fold? Or do the Bates see their outcome as better since even if some of the kids have moved beyond the strict boundaries, none appears to have succumbed to any actually illegal behavior? And what does each family secretly think of the other?

[GeeGolly]

So, question being, do the Duggars see their family as the more successful illustration of the Gothard ideal because while they have had at least one major blowup, no one has left the fold? Or do the Bates see their outcome as better since even if some of the kids have moved beyond the strict boundaries, none appears to have succumbed to any actually illegal behavior? And what does each family secretly think of the other?

Well you have got me thinking. First I think JB would skew his thinking that his family is more successful no matter what, and I believe that JB & M think that not having defectors is THE win. 

 

I also believe that the Bates put their love of their children before, or a least parallel to their love of God. So I think that if their children remain Christians, even if not IFB, they would think their family to be more successful. 

 

I don't think the parents care much for each other, but it appears the kids genuinely care for each other. I also think the Bates, after they got over their shock of Josh's misdeeds, would not judge the Duggars, because in a sense they would be judging themselves, and because they seem  little less judgmental than the Duggars overall.

[Marigold]

Hmmm...

The Bates have no major illegal activity but most of the kids are much more lax in the robotic thinking department.

I'm going with the Duggars.

They have only one pervert but HE allowed Satan to build a fortress in his heart. AND his best days are ahead of him. AND Derick is a missionary. AND Ben is a Facebook preacher...sort of... AND all the Duggar kids are Gothard robots = success!!!!

[absolutelyido]

The girls were still wearing swim shirts and skirts, but I did notice that the skirt was not quite knee length on one of the teen girls. Tori, maybe? So I wouldn't be surprised if they have decided not to at least on their show obsess endlessly about it. So yay for that! We know for sure that three of the teen/adult kids have rejected Gothard and hopefully more will.

 

It was Carlin who had on the not-quite-knee-length swim dress. Tori couldn't go on the Florida trip because (are you sitting down?) she had to go to her college classes.

 

I know that Kelly & Gil have said that the rules that they set for their children are for their home, and that when the kids create their own homes & families it will be up to them to set their own rules.

[becca3891]

This last sentence speaks volumes, I think...sometimes I wish I could (very, very briefly) see inside of Jim Bob or Michelle's heads when it comes to their families vs those of other people in their circle of experience.

 

The Bates' kids are clearly better adjusted and have actual futures open for them, but at least a few seem to have either rejected or at least distanced themselves from hardcore Gothardism. However, none, as far as we know, has anything like Josh's issues.

 

The Duggars, so far, seem to have somehow kept an absolute hold on their kids' attitudes. Even Josh, after everything he has physically done, appears to still be subscribing to the rhetoric. Every one of them toes the party line.

 

Even though they claim to give the kids the choice as to whether they will adhere to things like "no holding hands before engagement or kissing before marriage", every one of them seems to find that ideal. Though there may be slip-ups such as the front-hug between Jill and Derick or the hand-holding during prayer for Jessa and Ben, none of the kids has rebelled and said that they consider the rules too stringent. They more or less back down and see it as a mistake for which they seek forgiveness.

 

For that matter, Josh's "indiscretions" don't seem to be seen as any worse...a sin is a sin, and Christians are forgiven for all of those equally.

 

So, question being, do the Duggars see their family as the more successful illustration of the Gothard ideal because while they have had at least one major blowup, no one has left the fold? Or do the Bates see their outcome as better since even if some of the kids have moved beyond the strict boundaries, none appears to have succumbed to any actually illegal behavior? And what does each family secretly think of the other?

I don't think they necessarily view it as leaving the fold if someone stops going to Gothard conferences, as long as they still subscribe to fundamentalist Christianity. Which all of the Bates kids still do. I wonder what the families actually think of each other, though. The whole best friends thing may have been largely producer-driven, since they had the same number of kids. I remember a few years ago when they did the episode where the Duggars were helping the Bateses renovate their house, one of the girls, quite possibly Erin, said about the doors the Duggars had painted, "They painted it yuck colors." I thought that was so hilarious and loved that she just came out and said she hated it. I got the feeling the Duggars hadn't even asked them what colors they wanted!

[becca3891]

It was Carlin who had on the not-quite-knee-length swim dress. Tori couldn't go on the Florida trip because (are you sitting down?) she had to go to her college classes.

 

I know that Kelly & Gil have said that the rules that they set for their children are for their home, and that when the kids create their own homes & families it will be up to them to set their own rules.

Oh yes, thank you! I don't quite have all their names straight but I do remember them saying Tori couldn't come because of college. Of course, it's the very fundy and, I believe, non-accredited, Crown College (I mean, they actually have a class called Creation Science), but it is at least higher education in some capacity!

 

The producers used to love endlessly asking whether or not there was going to be a Bates/Duggar courtship. There still could be, but it seems less likely than it did. I haven't heard any more rumors about Jinger and Lawson, was it? Again, I can't keep all of them straight but wasn't she standing next to him in a few pictures! If it is true, they'd probably try to keep it under wraps until they could film it, so I guess we'll see.

Edited March 8, 2016 by becca3891

[Churchhoney]

I got the feeling the Duggars hadn't even asked them what colors they wanted!

 

I would be shocked if the Duggars had asked what colors they wanted. Nobody on earth is actually real to the Duggars (by which I mean JB and M) except the Duggars (by which I mean JB and M).

[Barb23]

There was a segment on The Doctors this morning about how deadly aerosol spray can be. I hope Jill was watching.

[kokapetl]

Black is the sexiest colour.

[Sew Sumi]

Tori was the one who had a problem with the "yuck colors." Michael played the Jill Duggar role by correcting her (eg. Jinger's "City please" remark).

[JoanArc]

http://jezebel.com/godly-father-advertises-gorgeous-26-year-old-virgin-da-1763450870

 

My first thought was - 'Is Jana 26 already?'

 

 

“Her: godly, gorgeous, athletic, educated, careered, humorous, travelled, bilingual, 26-year-old virgin. You: unworthy, though becoming less so daily.”

[GeeGolly]

http://jezebel.com/godly-father-advertises-gorgeous-26-year-old-virgin-da-1763450870

 

My first thought was - 'Is Jana 26 already?'

Holy WOW. That is just so, so wrong. That poor girl. I guess there are some fathers worse than JB. Or at least as bad.

[Marigold]

I think the Bates and Duggar parents get along. The boys seem cool with eachother. The girls? Eh...not so much. I got a bad vibe with that "yuck colors" comment. It came out of her mouth very freely with cameras rolling! Just sayin'

[Sew Sumi]

In which Gil Bates calls non-Christians he wants to convert "cannibal haters." Sorry, the video was spliced to make this point super clear. Not my doing. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/711419792301369/videos/830003900442957/

[satrunrose]

Are liberal Christians also cannibals? 'Cause I like a nice chianti but I'm not particularly fond of fava beans.

[Churchhoney]

Holy WOW. That is just so, so wrong. That poor girl. I guess there are some fathers worse than JB. Or at least as bad.

 

JB's more up to date. He relies on tv and internet advertising.

[BitterApple]

Are liberal Christians also cannibals? 'Cause I like a nice chianti but I'm not particularly fond of fava beans.

You better eat up lest you get the hose;)

[JoanArc]

I can't remember the name of the island, but there was a culture that believed one day brothers from across the sea would come to show them a new way to live. Christian missionaries found it, and the population quickly converted. Maybe that's what Gil meant?

[Sew Sumi]

I'm sure it is, but it's really not a good way to portray people you purport to love enough to share the word of God with them, as opposed to really helping them out of their  "cannibalistic" existence. 

 

I just think the connotation is extremely negative, and dare I say it, racist. There are certainly other ways to refer to people who aren't their brand of Christian. 

[becca3891]

Tori was the one who had a problem with the "yuck colors." Michael played the Jill Duggar role by correcting her (eg. Jinger's "City please" remark).

Thank you; I didn't know any of their names at the time. Come to think of it, that does sound more like something Tori would say. Her personality bugs me a little but I do like that she doesn't adhere as closely to the "keeping sweet" doctrine.

 

After watching Gil Bates, I was reminded by someone in the comments section about how when the Bateses' house was first shown on camera, there were prominent portraits of Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stonewall Jackson that were later removed. I was doing a little reading on Forrest and I had forgotten how awful he was -- he had hundreds of black soldiers executed at Fort Pillow, a sickening war crime, and went on to become a Grand Wizard in the KKK. That Christians could have his portrait on their wall as a hero is sickening. What on earth did Kelly's poor adopted sister think, being African-American?

Edited March 9, 2016 by becca3891

[Defrauder]

Fundamentally, I will never understand the homosexuality thing. Yes, it says some bullshit in Leviticus, but the same chapter contains tons of ridiculous 'guidelines' about stoning your neighbor to death for wearing two different fibers at the same time or how to sell your daughter into slavery, and nobody feels any great need to be purist and literal about THOSE things. Such an obsessive preoccupation with people who literally have zero effect on their lives  (apart from how much the existence of homosexuality offends them because Jesus) is one of the weirdest things about these people. I hate to be basic but it's like an entire movement built around the "methinks thou dost protest too much" adage. I just can't think of any other reasonable explanation, other than people are inexplicably terrified by the possibility of their own proclivities. I'd love to know which section of the Bible makes Jill R feel justified in dropping such contemptuous, instant judgement on someone based entirely on appearance.

Well said Aja.  The bible has countless rules that they don't follow yet they are so hung up on the homosexuality ban.  Cover to cover it would probably take many hours and well over a year to decipher all of the biblical rules they don't follow as opposed to the ones they do follow. Always Pecan picking the bible verses to suit their lifestyle of how they want not only themselves to live but others to live.  I wish they would make up their minds if they wanted to live in  the dark ages or not and stop being hypocrites for Christ. 

[Defrauder]

LOL! Like many others, this is the part of the story that upset me the most. The person was not going to hit on her, bite or anything else. Wash your hands!  The person was apparently covered up, she was in a stall, so no grabbing of pearls was needed. And her husband was furious? Why? Nothing happened, and it seemed from the conversations with the manager, police, etc nothing ever had happened. If she was that upset and truly as Christian as she says she was, she should have given the person a tract and shown them the error of their ways.  Probably upset that poor transgender woman, but at least Jill would be able to show she's concerned for everyone's soul even poor "sinners".

 

I would prefer she did nothing, but wash her hands and leave the bathroom and other person in peace and say nothing. You know, as regular people do when going to the bathroom. But, if you are going to be a "gung-ho" Christian, than be it and stop spouting bible verses from the Old Testament and start living the New. 

Yeah really - no grabbing of the pearls was needed. I swear if she lived by an IHOP near me I'd pretend I was transgender in the bathroom just to piss her off. And I'd refuse to wash my hands next to her judgemental arrogant self righteous hair spraying self.

[Defrauder]

Just read J-Rod's labor and delivery story of her 12th child.  To sum it up it goes something like this:

 

She wakes up in the middle of the night with contractions, mild then hard.  She hurries up to take a bath and shave.  She decides not to wake David up so he can rest and get ready for the labor. She continues with contractions rising frequently.  Finally daybreak comes and she takes a shower.  David awakes and she tells him today is the day.  He says - really, I should call the print shop to tell them I won't be in today. She readily agrees.  She bends over in pain with each contraction as she does her hair and puts on her makeup. She takes some herbs her midwife from NY had given her.  Her contractions are becoming more intense.  David suggests they go to breakfast on the way to the hospital and stop at Lowes for something he needs to fix the RV.  She agrees. During the trip her pain becomes more severe and she suggests going straight to the hospital.  David readily agrees.  20 minutes after arriving at the hospital the baby is born. 

[Aja]

Just read J-Rod's labor and delivery story of her 12th child.  To sum it up it goes something like this:

 

She wakes up in the middle of the night with contractions, mild then hard.  She hurries up to take a bath and shave.  She decides not to wake David up so he can rest and get ready for the labor. She continues with contractions rising frequently.  Finally daybreak comes and she takes a shower.  David awakes and she tells him today is the day.  He says - really, I should call the print shop to tell them I won't be in today. She readily agrees.  She bends over in pain with each contraction as she does her hair and puts on her makeup. She takes some herbs her midwife from NY had given her.  Her contractions are becoming more intense.  David suggests they go to breakfast on the way to the hospital and stop at Lowes for something he needs to fix the RV.  She agrees. During the trip her pain becomes more severe and she suggests going straight to the hospital.  David readily agrees.  20 minutes after arriving at the hospital the baby is born. 

Scintillating. 

[Defrauder]

Scintillating. 

My summary is titled a martyr for makeup and the husband from hell.

[Micks Picks]

The 12th was born while they were living in the RV, right?  The other eleven urchins must be used to sleeping through anything including showers and baths and hair dryers in the middle of the night.  

[Aja]

My summary is titled a martyr for makeup and the husband from hell.

Your summary and its title are the best things about that story!

[BitterApple]

Hospital? How much do you want to bet Davey and Co. are on Medicaid? He has no job, so I doubt they can afford to purchase insurance, even through Obama care. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Fundies are on assistance, but just won't admit it.

Or they do what the Bates used to, use the ER for everything and then claim inability to pay.

[Defrauder]

Hospital? How much do you want to bet Davey and Co. are on Medicaid? He has no job, so I doubt they can afford to purchase insurance, even through Obama care. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Fundies are on assistance, but just won't admit it.

Or they do what the Bates used to, use the ER for everything and then claim inability to pay.

They were probably planning on giving birth in Lowes and getting their RV fixed for free.  Maybe they didn't open in time.

[Defrauder]

The 12th was born while they were living in the RV, right?  The other eleven urchins must be used to sleeping through anything including showers and baths and hair dryers in the middle of the night.  

Yeah and it really pisses off that in her entire story she doesn't even mention telling the children she's off to the hospital. It's ALL about her and David like they don't even have any children to care.. about. 

[GeeGolly]

Okay, I'm just saying that if I was fully in labor and my husband suggested breakfast on the way to the hospital he would be unable to father any more children.

[EAG46]

I think if any of these men tried to pull that crap of "ooh let's go out to breakfast before heading to the delivery room" or "Can we stop off somewhere before going to the hospital?" out in public among normal society, they wouldn't just be eunuchs.  They'd be dead.  Or at least they should be.

[Minivanessa]

I think if any of these men tried to pull that crap of "ooh let's go out to breakfast before heading to the delivery room" or "Can we stop off somewhere before going to the hospital?" out in public among normal society, they wouldn't just be eunuchs.  They'd be dead.  Or at least they should be.

 

I read the book "I Fired God" the other day and I'm still thinking about the IFB and Christian Patriarchy and Quiverfull groups (which seem to have a lot of overlap). They are totally into the husband being large and in charge and the wife being submissive.

 

I bet that Jill R probably embellished her husband's detours on the way to the hospital, to paint them as such a speshul shining example of husbandly domination and wifely submission. 

 

Of course, they are fucking insane. IMO.