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More Dramatic Than the Show: Behind the Scenes


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That makes no sense actually as JM had her own Emmy before AP.  That the Kalinda character was popular, I could maybe see that causing JM to bristle but not necessarily the Emmy.

 

 

 

Actually, JM has gone back and forth over that in interviews. I remember one interview--I want to say it was toward the end of S4--where she said something like "You know, I used to hate Peter and Alicia, but then I started thinking, isn't this really interesting...." But I haven't kept track of press for the show since then, so I'm not sure if she has continued in that line of thinking or reverted to her previous stance in subsequent interviews. Does anyone know?

 

At the PaleyFest panel a couple weeks ago (link to whole thing in the media thread) she said Alicia should dump Peter.

 

I also agree about bad writing, JM/AP stuff aside.  The past couple of seasons have been all over the board and I would hope that for it's supposedly final season coming up, they'd get their ducks in a row.

Edited by milkyaqua
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As a longtime fan of TGW, I had no idea any of this stuff was going on behind the scenes.  To be honest, I kind of noticed that there had been fewer scenes between Alicia and Kalinda, but then again, there have been fewer scenes between Alicia and EVERYONE on the show recently, except for the guest stars.  This is why I hope Alicia loses the election and gets back into the courtroom.

Couldn't agree more with this. I don't care about the Kalinda-Alicia friendship. People change, circumstances change. That wasn't the defining element of the show for me. But the fact that Alicia interacts so infrequently with any of the regular players, except by phone, is weird and distracting to me.

 

One of the defining things about this show (for me) has been that "Good Wife" Alicia didn't have meaningful relationships, and that lawyer/partner Alicia was developing a life outside of her husband and family, with friendship and business relatinoships that were meaningful. I miss seeing her forge these relationships.

 

The campaign is painful to me. Though I like Johnny, I could care less about Eli's daughter and the other guy.

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that makes no sense actually as JM had her own Emmy before AP.

 

Julianna Margulies earned an Emmy for her vanity project show The Good Wife before AP? That's not how I remember it. I don't get why this is so hard to understand, go watch All About Eve. The star rarely wants to be showed up by an underling co-star (and AP is most definitely THAT, relative to the star/producer JM) in a regular production, much less in one that was entirely conceived for the star to win the star more Emmy's.

 

Archie getting that much acclaim straight outta the gate in S1 pissed JM off and she has never gotten over it, and because she is a producer of the show she doesn't have to. I realize people think this is more recent, but I doubt that, I think the entire reason Kalinda slept with Peter was to facilitate distance between Kalinda/AP and Alicia/JM. My guess is there is an underlying personality clash as well, but she might well have coped with that "professionally" had AP not won the Emmy and buzzy acclaim initially. Ooooh look at me daring to SPECULATE, quelle horreur!

 

Whatevs given how impossible it was for the Kings to write for Kalinda while severing her from any interactions with The Good Wife for most of three seasons she's much better off wih her own show and on The Fall.

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Julianna Margulies earned an Emmy for her vanity project show The Good Wife before AP? That's not how I remember it. 

I think the poster meant JM had an Emmy before AP, she won for ER.

 

It really is kind of sad and funny too.  I don't even bother watching this show until I've come here and read you guys posts. Then I go to CBS.com where I can just fast forward through the Alicia parts I don't want to see.

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Thank God for this thread! So relieved to find so many people with the same thoughts I have all the time. Except that I believe it's even worse than most people are speculating here. The way I see it, JM has kidnapped this show and made it her hostage. Now she's torturing it (and us) to hell, with a simple purpose: satisfy her huge ego. And the Kings are too coward to do anything about it.

 

For me, The Good Wife was always an ensemble show, and that's why I watched. What made Alicia's character interesting were her interactions with other characters: Will, Kalinda, Diane, Cary, Peter, Grace, Zach... When I look back at all the back seasons, it seems like JM went out of her way to make the show only about herself. Josh Charles, bless him, left before this happened. I'll miss him forever.

 

Anyway, first JM got rid of Emmy-winner Kalinda - no other star is allowed next to the wife. Then she created this whole politician storyline, so she could get rid of Cary and Diane - and a whole lot of lawyers we never see anymore. Then she got rid of Zach, her son, with the lamest excuse ever! We rarely see Peter or Eli anymore - guess they just disappeared into thin air. And now she has whole episodes that take place only in her head. I guess the last episode of TGW will be a full monologue of JM looking into the camera and telling us that every other character has died or left. But it's ok, because, you know, the show was always about HER.

 

THE END

 

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Your logical explanation, when the creators said that the relationship between Alicia/Kalinda was the heart of the show for so long, is that the writers just got tired of writing that, so they stopped?  You don't really believe that do you?

 

And of course also explains the no public appearances with the rest of the cast by AP. (TFIC)

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The TV reviewer for The New Yorker was just tweeting about how intriguing the feud is, and a couple people said they think Archie slept with Julianna's (hot) husband.  I mean damn, they couldn't even be in the scene of them taking that pic together? I'm dying to know.  I don't really feel bad speculating because I have a feeling it comes down to one or both of them being unprofessional and petty.  We've all worked with people we hate before.

Edited by Morbs
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Reading that forum, that speculation is based on nothing. I think it's disgusting that a conflict between two women is being boiled down to a man. Because whatever this disagreement is about, it has to come back to a man and not something connected to work, right?

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I agree, vibeology. I think speculating is fun, but I think their personal lives should be left out of it. Especially considering that neither of their husbands are public figures.

And as you say, there are a million professional reasons why there could be a possible rift. But no, it must be a man... ugh.

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I read that Twitter exchange from Emily Nussbaum and her followers, and it really wasn't the case that people said that Archie probably slept with JM's husband--someone said that as a joke, and Emily joked back that it would explain a lot but wouldn't be able to cover it entirely. The main speculation that was discussed--and it's something that I actually sign on to as a theory--was that the blowup was at least partially caused by the fact that the narrative seemed to be going in a direction of a romantic twist to Alicia/Kalinda all through season 4A, and when the Kings told JM what they had in mind she blew up.  That's a speculation based on nothing more than textual evidence, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

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the narrative seemed to be going in a direction of a romantic twist to Alicia/Kalinda all through season 4A

 

I've been w/ this show since the beginning (and will stay to the crappy end as well i'm sure) but I don't recall the narrative leading that way unless I missed a few episodes (I didn't) or have a faulty memory and can't read b/t the lines.  I always thought that S3 it seemed was an eventual thawing of Alicia towards Kalinda after she found out about how Kalinda found Grace.  It was going that way and then it just changed I guess, which was a total 180 of the character storylines.  It was never explained other than the only interactions were via phone basically or they were in different areas of the office.

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The main speculation that was discussed--and it's something that I actually sign on to as a theory--was that the blowup was at least partially caused by the fact that the narrative seemed to be going in a direction of a romantic twist to Alicia/Kalinda all through season 4A, and when the Kings told JM what they had in mind she blew up.  That's a speculation based on nothing more than textual evidence, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

 

Interesting, crashdown.  I don't think I had heard that before.  Maybe someday, we'll know.....

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Firewall and Iceberg take on the alleged JM/AP feud in this week's podcast--it's quite a delightful rant.  I wish more mainstream journalists had noticed when there might have still been time to put pressure on the show to get its act together.  As far as I know, the Buzzfeed article was the first anyone outside of fandom mentioned what appeared to be going on.  After that, one by one the critics and journalists began to speak of it here or there, and now they're talking about it openly and extensively.  But too little, too late!

Edited by crashdown
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I don't think the feud has anything to do with husband banging, I'm 100% in the camp this is just pure old fashioned diva/jealousy/resentment on the part of JM coupled with the clout to get what she wants, aka not to have to even be on the same set as Archie Panjabi, the breakout Emmy wining bitch who (briefly) stole her thunder.

 

I think it's also interesting that Feinberg says there was no "in story" justification for the chill out, when I'm pretty sure the ONLY reason that Kalinda banged Peter, something that never made any kind of sense to me that Kalinda would either do much less lie to Alicia about, was to justify how much JM already was over Archie and therefore Kalinda and Kalicia. Margulies has clung to that reasoning for basically five years. I also LOVED Feinberg describing JM and Archie as leading lady and *Emmy winning* costar. Hahah it's pretty clear who he thinks was coddled.

 

It will be interesting to see exactly 

how this upcoming scene in the finale plays out, is it a warm memory flashback for Alicia, or did Kalinda come out of hiding just to shoot the shit with Alicia?

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Kalinda/Peter was planned from the start of the show, though - the Kings have talked about how they planned to do the reveal in S1 but the network told them that it was too soon, that the friendship needed to be built up first.

 

I thought the ONS itself was pretty standard as a storytelling arc goes for a core relationship: First the core relationship is developed, then there's a major rift, and then there's an awesome reconciliation. I was actually simultaneously heartbroken and thrilled when the ONS was revealed - heartbroken because of what it meant in the short-term for Kalinda and Alicia, thrilled because of what it meant long-term for Kalinda and Alicia.

 

And the reconciliation did happen, and everything played out exactly as expected right up until "Red Team/Blue Team" - that episode was the last time AP and JM were actually working on the same set together, and thereafter their friendship just vanished offscreen, although they continued to be referred to as friends and acted like friends (for instance, when the firm decided to hire another investigator and Alicia, worried about what it might mean for Kalinda, first was the only partner to vote against hiring a second investigator and then got herself put on the search committee so she could pick someone who wouldn't be a threat to Kalinda).

 

I've always agreed with crashdown that learning that there was going to be a reveal that Kalinda was in love with Alicia (which was clearly what the husband arc was leading up to, and in fact it WAS done, subtly, but there would have been a more overt reveal later) was the final straw for JM, after jealousy/resentment issues over AP also being an Emmy winner for the show and AP being labeled the sexy one and AP being the breakout star. And there's the added irritant that she and AP clearly do not mesh in working styles: There are a number of stories about the time and preparation AP puts into her scenes, while JM has talked multiple times about how she likes to have her work time as minimal as she can.

 

Which I think is why suddenly we also got a lot more phone scenes between Alicia/Cary and Alicia/Diane this season - it started out just as the show's way to have Kalinda/Alicia interaction without them being on a set together, but then JM saw how much faster it is when she only has to film her half of a phone conversation and started pushing to have the writers do that more with Alicia and other characters as well. (That, or Alicia is actually related to Captain Renard on Grimm - a character who has probably spent 2/3rds of his entire time on the show with a phone attached to his ear.)

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Please.  I agree something is up between Julianna and Archie but let's not go overboard.  The lack of interaction between Alicia and Cary/Diane throughout the season was to show the rift between their relationship when Alicia started to run for SA.  They have brought this up several times how Alicia is never at the firm but then she complained when they hired David Lee without her permission.  It's part of the storyline (unlike with Kalinda who Alicia speaks over the phone as well but there is no hint anything is wrong between them).   The A & C/D dynamics has changed and will no doubt follow through once Alicia is back at the firm.  JM likes to get her job done fast but that doesn't mean she asked the writers to cut down her scenes.  I mean when she is not interacting with C/D, she is with the characters in the election storyline (Eli, Peter, Finn, etc.).  So it's not like she just does solo scenes and leave.   There seems to be no problem between JM and Christine or Matt.  JM speaks very highly of Christine (she just gave an interview and said Christine is the classiest woman she know).

 

I am so tired of hearing JM being jealous of AP because she won the Emmy first.  It's ridiculous.   JM lost the Emmy the first season but she got the SAG and the Golden Globes.  It's not like JM won nothing and AP won everything.  There wasn't any problem with them the second season either.  If you watch the clip where JM won the Emmy, AP was sitting next to her and her husband and gave a thumbs up to JM's husband when she walked up the stage.  I really think it's their work ethics that caused the rift.   If the Alicia/Kalinda pairing was true, I can see why JM would reject it but it doesn't make sense for the characters not to even be in the same room together. 

Edited by ethankoo
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I think poor JM has developed a kind of a rare disease that doesn't allow her to interact with many ppl.
That would explain not having a single scene with AP for 50 episodes. That would also explain why in this season she seems to play in a different show than the rest of the cast and rarely interacts with them.
A rare disease I tell you. ;)

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JM is a bit of a prima donna. She was the third choice for TGW. Got the part after the other two declined and almost did not take the role because of it. 

do we know the other two?

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Ashley Judd and Helen Hunt:

 

“When The Good Wife came to me, it came in such a backhanded compliment. [They said] ‘So Ashley Judd was offered this script, but she’s turning it down,’” the actress revealed during a Hollywood Reporter Emmy roundtable of Best Actress from a Drama contenders. Margulies said she was then told that as long as Helen Hunt passed, she could go for the part.

“I was then reading [the script] sort of already defensive, and I wanted to hate it, because, you know, f— you, you didn’t want me to begin with,” she said. “And I’m like your sloppy thirds.”

 

 

Source.

 

Honestly, she sounds like a whiny baby. How many years has she been in this business? Does she not know how these things work? She comes across arrogant and delusional, and I don't think she's that great of an actress.

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Ehhh I don't blame her.   Who wants to know you got the part only if someone else turns it down.   Sure, you know it happens in Hollywood, but you don't need your face rubbed in it.

 

I am now imagining a completely different show with either Ashley Judd or Helen Hunt as Alicia Florrick.

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The main speculation that was discussed--and it's something that I actually sign on to as a theory--was that the blowup was at least partially caused by the fact that the narrative seemed to be going in a direction of a romantic twist to Alicia/Kalinda all through season 4A, and when the Kings told JM what they had in mind she blew up.

 

My pet theory has long been along these lines. It's total cracked-out speculation based on nothing substantial, but hey, that's what this thread is for. I saw quite a few forum discussions on various sites shipping Alicia with Kalinda in the early seasons of the show and a lot of it was starting to become the creepy "let's pretend the actresses are fucking too"-style shipping. I wouldn't have put it past JM to be uncomfortable with that. Coupled with Archie's growing popularity, maybe her discomfort grew and she put an end to any and all scenes together.

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I wouldn't have watched this show if Helen Hunt had been cast.  I'm not sure about Ashley Judd either but definitely not Helen Hunt.

 

As for the romantic storyline between Alicia and Kalinda, while I can probably see JM not wanting to go down that road even though "Kalicia" had plenty of shippers, I don't think that would have worked.  Let's look at the character of Alicia.  Has anything in her behavior during the run of this series even indicated she'd be open to a same-sex relationship?  Frankly, I don't think so.  I think all a story like that would have accomplished would have been another way for the two characters to not have a friendship.  Instead it was Kalinda having slept with Peter.

 

But I can just imagine a scenario where Kalinda and Alicia are at the bar, possibly in a booth and both have had too much tequila.  Kalinda makes some clumsy attempt at a pass or kiss and Alicia is totally freaked out by it because she's Alicia.  She'd either ask Kalinda what she thought she was doing, accuse her of having had too much tequila or clumsily said she was flattered by the attention but no, she didn't swing that way.  Kalinda probably would try to apologize but from that point on I can see Alicia pulling away from the friendship.  In either case, the friendship is over.

Edited by milkyaqua
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Ashley Judd has a strange career.  I wonder if she just has rotten  luck or doesn't take a lot of roles because of her social activism.  But JM's comments do seem a little strange.  There's like what, 5 actors who have first dibs, and then everyone else fighting over the rest.  And she was really off the radar after ER.

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Who did they think they were kidding, with those scenes of Alicia and Kalinda "together"? Ridiculous.

Yeah, way to squash those rumors....

 

Not.

It's like they think the viewing public doesn't understand about shot doubles, cutting, and what it means where you don't have a real, genuine two shot of two people.

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Oh yeah, no, sorry, I should have been more specific. I wasn't questioning the tweet itself (I looked it up too before posting!) but whether or not it's true that AP didn't know about the show being at PaleyFest. On the surface I find that hard to believe--I think it's more likely that that was her very diplomatic way of saying she wasn't invited--but, you know, despite that fact that I think Panjabi is awesome and Margulies blows, I want to recognize that it's not like Panjabi is unbiased here, and may be spinning the events slightly to be in her favor. :)

 

No one really knows what started the feud--there's a lot of speculation about egos, storylines, etc--but the exact origin is a big mystery. But I think the general consensus is that, however it started, Margulies has been a huge dick to Panjabi as a result. If you read enough interviews, it becomes pretty clear that Margulies utterly loathes the Kalinda character and that the whole "Kalinda and Alicia can't be in the same scene together" rule is entirely her doing.

 

 

Someone in the article on PaleyFest said in the comments that

To which I say, forget making out--at this point they better have sex on Alicia's desk in full view of the whole office, to justify the level of non-interaction! Because that's how high MY expectations have been raised, show! (And I don't even watch anymore!)

 

Super late to the conversation but could you even imagine if the final scene is a "It was always you" moment.  Hilarious!!

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Yeah, way to squash those rumors....

 

Not.

It's like they think the viewing public doesn't understand about shot doubles, cutting, and what it means where you don't have a real, genuine two shot of two people.

Oh, I think they went out of their way to assure that those members of the viewing public who don't understand about those things would realize that there was something off about that ridiculous talking-heads scene. TGW bookended that scene with two other bar scenes that reminded viewers what it looks like when two actors are actually filming at the same time, and the first Kalicia flashback scene was taken from easily identifiable old footage. If they had picked a generic shot of the two of them drinking, even Kalicia superfans would've had to go back and look at the old episodes and compare to figure out where it came from before they could be sure that it was reused footage, but they picked the phone tug-of-war, part of one of the most iconic Kalicia bar scenes.

 

The Kings are not trying. In addition to the juxtaposition of those bar scenes, the talking-heads scene also could have been filmed better, less awkwardly, perhaps making use of stand-ins so that it wouldn't be so screamingly obvious. If they do go the CGI route next week, I kind of expect them to sabotage it in the same manner. And it's been hilarious to read all the articles coming out now that are talking openly about the problem, making the same points that Kalicia fans have been making for well over a year.

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(edited)

Oh, I think they went out of their way to assure that those members of the viewing public who don't understand about those things would realize that there was something off about that ridiculous talking-heads scene.

 

Some of the descriptions of the supposed final scene made me think this wasn't a possibility but if the Kings are truly annoyed by this then its still possible...

 

I'm half convinced that the final Kalicia scene (if there is one) is Alicia being called to identify Kalinda in the morgue because Bishop caught up to her.  This stemming from JM swearing (joking I have never heard that anything like this happened) that she would film with AP over her dead body and the Kings finding that hilarious.

 

I continue to find it odd that this supposed backstage tension can stay as locked down as it has been.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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I continue to find it odd that this supposed backstage tension can stay as locked down as it has been.

 

I'm not that surprised, TGW has always been at best modestly successful in terms of ratings, a middling to underperforming, if it were ever a cultural phenomenon like Grey's we'd know all about. I feel like whatever drama went down it was entirely off set, and was mostly a battle of wills between The Kings and JM, and the Kings lost. It is a bit surprising the cast/crew have been totally circumspect about gossiping, and I hate them for it even as I admire their professionalism. 

 

I mostly want to know if Alan invited both of them to Club Cumming and if so how he made sure they didn't show up the same night.

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No need to apologize! I only know about it because I heard him mention it on some talk show when he was promoting his book.

Apparently AC has his dressing room at his Broadway show set up like a nightclub, which he calls "Club Cumming". He invites the cast, crew, friends, etc., to drop in for an after-party. You can read about it here.

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(edited)

I'm not that surprised, TGW has always been at best modestly successful in terms of ratings, a middling to underperforming, if it were ever a cultural phenomenon like Grey's we'd know all about.

At least according to the place I get my ratings info, TGW has been getting MUCH better TOTAL viewer ratings overall this season than Grey's.  It's only in the 18-49 figure that Grey's smashes TGW to bits--TGW has plenty of viewers, they apparently somehow must be senior citizens though.

 

Although it's worth noting that TGW had a HUGE ratings dropoff in January that seems to have just gotten worse and worse.  11 million viewers in September down to 10.3 in early January, but falling and falling down to the 8s now (which is actually about where Grey's has been all season in total viewers, albeit with that great 18-49 demo score overcoming that).

 

Grey's ratings 

TGW ratings

Edited by Kromm
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At least according to the place I get my ratings info, TGW has been getting MUCH better TOTAL viewer ratings overall this season than Grey's.

 

That is entirely NOT the point. TGW doing better now than Greys is 10 years into it's run doesn't mean TGW ever had the kind of media profile then or now that Grey's does. I stand by my actual point: The Good Wife is not a cultural phenom, nor is it some crazy ratings success. It's solid performer on CBS the geriatric network ,and whatever drama is behind the scenes simply isn't that interesting to the young people on the internet whom most TV writers are trying to entice for page hits. 

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(edited)

It really is amazing how old TGW's viewership skews, even by CBS standards.

 

Entertainment Weekly has actually given TGW a lot more coverage than such an old-skewing show would ordinarily receive from it. But, the thing is, almost anything can get coverage online because there are so many sites trying to entertain visitors with short attention spans and thirst for content that the sites just keep needing more and more stories. There have been lots of online articles about TGW over the years. Tons of coverage on the level of Grey's or GoT or Walking Dead or some other cultural phenom, no, but you can find plenty to read. So I think it's a combination of the two factors. The people involved with TGW, cast and crew, have done a good job of staying mum. If somebody said something, or there was something really wild like a fist fight between two of the actors, it would get picked up and reported. But, because TGW has a relatively low profile, the entertainment press isn't going to work to find interesting news or gossip from the set. The coverage is passive rather than active, in other words. They'll report what's said, but they won't go digging.

 

At least that's how it was. Suddenly this has become rather hot talk - a lot of media articles, a lot of activity on Tumblr (I have a friend who doesn't know TGW at all, and she commented to me yesterday that she knows a show is getting blasted by everyone when it's suddenly all over her dash even though she doesn't follow any people/blogs tied to the show). So, someone may well go digging now.

Edited by Black Knight
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(edited)

I don't know about either one of them.  Chris was not in Swept Away long enough to see if he and HH had any chemistry.

I'm not sure Chris would be in the show if HH had been cast.  I thought I read that Chris's involvement and even Josh's were related to Juliana recruiting them.

The thing that irks me about this whole thing is that I can tell the mainstream media are likely to pretend like everything is groovy if Kalinda and Alicia--scratch that, Juliana and Archie, share a final scene. 

 

One final scene doesn't explain the ridiculousness of the past few seasons.  And I don't even particularly care about the relationship. The coverup has been worse, IMO.

Edited by Irlandesa
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I thought it was interesting that AP said that there were "restrictions" on what the produces could do with her character. I mean it was pretty obvious to us (like JM has some sort of restraining order against the woman) but to see her say it was very telling.

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Just basically that her contract was up at the end of S6. Her impending departure became public knowledge with the announcement that she'd signed a development deal with Fox to star in a show for that network once they find something she's interested in. AP has said that she's known since S4 that she wanted to leave and that it's time for her to try something new.

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