S02.E19: Justify The Means

[karas]

 

Stef confides in Lena and Callie about a plan that will make it possible for the Adams Fosters to adopt Callie, but she’s not being fully honest about some of the steps she’s taken to put the plan in motion. In turn, Lena hasn’t been completely truthful with Stef about her conflicting emotions over expanding their family. Meanwhile, Brandon has an opportunity to pursue his dream of being a classical musician, but it could come at a price. Jude breaks the rules in order to be with Connor and faces dire consequences.

[karas]

I'm really hoping that Jude doesn't catch a case of stupid from Brandon and Jesus.  So far, he's been the brains of the family in terms of not doing stupid and/or illegal stuff.

[CPP83]

I forgot this show had come back and now I remember why.

 

This show has really gone downhill in a hurry, imo.

 

Lena and Stef are too annoying and self righteous and selfish and self absorbed for words now, and they really seem to have become pretty crappy parents, but I guess that's the theme of this show now: 101 ways to not parent children.

 

And as for the kids...so very irksome, all of them. Brandon has gotten worse, the twins are both nails on a chalkboard, Jude has outgrown his cuteness, and Callie really, truly needs to get back into therapy post haste. 

[againstthewind]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened at the end there.

[bybrandy]

Omg if they killed Connor....

[ShortyMac]

I'm really hoping that Jude doesn't catch a case of stupid from Brandon and Jesus.  So far, he's been the brains of the family in terms of not doing stupid and/or illegal stuff.

 

Too late. Who knew 13 years-olds wanted to drink and have sex so badly? Since Jude is obviously not the one who gets shot, I wonder if Connor dies?

 

A big hell to the no for Lena getting close to Monte. Nooooooooooo.

 

I love the Callie/Mariana moments. They're always so great. I'm glad they both agreed about Callie not being on the dance team and that it wasn't dragged out.

 

I would love to see Brandon get back into his Classical training; I've always thought it was a pretty unique story line for TV (although, I could see the "Brandon loses his gift/can't play anymore" thing coming). Most teens on TV are star athletes and it's nice to see musical talent getting some attention.

 

Couldn't care less about Jesus. PLEASE go to Colorado.

[Bringonthedrama]

Too late. Who knew 13 years-olds wanted to drink and have sex so badly? Since Jude is obviously not the one who gets shot, I wonder if Connor dies?

We see that clip of Jude confiding in Lena, I see Jude in tears and they talk about losing a friend, so I guess Connor does die from a gunshot wound. That's the only reason I can explain for him lashing out at Callie/her shocked face.

[JaggedLilPill]

I'm 99.9% sure Connor doesn't die. But I'm also pretty sure this will cause Connor's dad to pull the "your son is a horrible influence" card and not want them to be friends anymore, hence the losing a friend conversation. Ironic considering it was the girls who wanted to do it, girls who Connor and Jude are partly hanging out with due to Connor's dad's homophobia - which was magically erased since Jude confessed to making out with girls. Funny how that happens. Not really. But y'all should know ABC Fam and their promos by now! LOL.

 

Oy with Stef and Lena though. Talk to each other, please. 

[omgsowicked]

Omg if they killed Connor....

 

Based on this interview with the creators

there's plenty of Jonnor in S3... unless they're messing with us, big time.

 

- As each episode passes, I find myself more and more on Robert's side. I wish Stef hadn't made the situation hostile, by blackmailing and intimidating him. Hated their smug/death glares at each other in the judge's office. Now Callie has to deal with emancipating herself... wasn't that kind of what she was going to do by moving into an apartment? I can't remember. Anyway, I'd like to see her talk to other people about this, maybe the guy down at the agency, the girls at Girls United... to see where she actually stands on this. And to be honest, it's only a few years, then she's 18 and can do whatever she wants, move out of Robert's and live with Stef and Lena, whatever.

 

- Speaking of Callie, it was funny and sweet to see her try to support Mariana by joining her dance team, despite being terrible at it. I really adore their relationship. Callie's very uncomfortable acting sexy, and I don't think that was just a random throwaway... interested to see where that goes, and how she gains confidence in owning her sexuality.

 

- Brandon taking it upon himself to tell Mariana about them not adopting Ana's baby when they ended up agreeing to do so... mess! Glad Brandon's deciding to go to Idyllwild on his own, and shoutout to that random teacher who always pops out of nowhere for making sure he still has a spot.

 

- So Mariana's speech overrules Timothy's immature outbursts? Meh. So what got Timothy and Monte on the same page? Because they still need to do these standardized tests, don't they? That dinner/wine session was awkward, what's with Stef being so hostile to everyone? Guess she's feeling the vibes too, huh? That hug between Monte and Lena went on just a little too long. *squints* I was just starting to think it would be an emotional affair at most. Hmm. Glad Stef and Lena talked about how they need to communicate more but Stef makes that difficult to do.

 

- As for the Jude/Connor storyline... welp. It started off quite well, I was enjoying how they were kinda sorta talking about what was going on between them but I did not like the turn of events at the end. To have them go from pretty darn innocent to toilet-papering, breaking and entering (kind of), drinking alcohol, and someone getting shot... what? 0 to 60 in no time. I'm sure this will lead to some fantastic storylines but it felt a little cheap and unnecessary to me.

 

Anyway, back to the beginning, I liked them talking about the whole Daria thing and how that allows the boys to hang out, and the teenager-y dilemma of not having privacy (to play footsies). And again, what the heck is Jesus' problem? Dial it back, bro. Also, I thought Taylor was catching on to what was going on between the boys, so I'm glad she came out with it... I still like her and hope she sticks around somehow, now that her dad shot

Connor, I think. I saw some production photos that show Daria and Taylor at the doorway, shocked and crying, and we know Jude's fine, so...

Edited March 10, 2015 by omgsowicked

[KaveDweller]

I love the Callie/Mariana moments. They're always so great. I'm glad they both agreed about Callie not being on the dance team and that it wasn't dragged out.

 

I loved the part where Callie said she didn't really hurt her leg, and Mariana was all, "Duh."   It was adorable that they were both trying so hard to be nice, but totally knew Callie can't dance.

 

Was there a clip of Connor and Jude together in the preview, or was that an old scene? I can't imagine that they would really kill Connor....maybe have him get shot but not actually kill him.  That Taylor girl got more interesting though.  She knows Jude likes Connor and as soon as she admits knowing that she suggests going to get drunk.  Aren't these kids in 7th grade? It seems a little young, but maybe that's what happens these days. 

[Bringonthedrama]

I like that the show touched on Callie not being comfortable being sexy, without it being about a boy. She needs the relationship with Mariana in her life. She and Brandon make great friends; who knows about the Braille future.

 

Also, seems like Connor is bi, and not 'serious' about Jude like Jude is about him. Jude seemed none too pleased with how casual Connor was about kissing that girl, and implying he and Jude could mess around on the down-low. I assumed either Connor or Jude got shot in the back or head as they ran. I knew it wasn't Jude because Stef would have jumped up in the bed screaming, or burst into tears. 

 

UGH at Stef - she just wants her way, period. Calm down, Robert is not the devil. I think Monte *is* attracted to Lena. That hug seemed like Monte's thought bubble should say, "Mmm, this feels so good!" and Lena's should say, "What the heck? I'm confused." 

[LeGrandElephant]

I assume Connor got shot and there's a moment when it looks like he might die, which is when Lena says the "losing a friend is hard" bit from the previews. But I think/hope he doesn't actually die. Then I gjess there will be tons of drama to keep them apart ... The shooting thing is really unnecessary and over the top, when they were doing such a good job with a believable storyline between the boys. Oh well. It does serve as a good PSA for how dangerous it is to have a gun on hand.

[KaveDweller]

As each episode passes, I find myself more and more on Robert's side. I wish Stef hadn't made the situation hostile, by blackmailing and intimidating him. Hated their smug/death glares at each other in the judge's office. Now Callie has to deal with emancipating herself... wasn't that kind of what she was going to do by moving into an apartment? I can't remember.

 

I hadn't been too annoyed at Stef's actions until tonight.  The blackmail was really innapropriate, especially since Lena didn't know about it.  And I think forcing Callie to emancipate herself isn't right either.  I know Callie wanted to do that at one point, but I don't think she does anymore.  Making her get a full time job so the judge thinks she can support herself seems like a big burden to put on her.  Is it even legal to get her emancipated without Robert getting any notification?

[LeGrandElephant]

I can't imagine it is legal for her to get emancipated without Robert knowing about it. And its putting her in a really unfair position. At this point I'm mostly on Robert's side, and I don't think that's where the show wants us to be. Why exactly is it so terrible for Callie to have a nice rich father who's happy to let her keep on having regular contact with the Fosters? If the show wanted to set up real conflict, then either Robert should have been a jerk, or he should have lived far away. 

[Bringonthedrama]

.  Is it even legal to get her emancipated without Robert getting any notification?

Stef basically told Lena that''s the beauty of her emancipation strategy - Robert doesn't need to know/be involved because it doesn't happen in family court. This is Stef's sneaky F You to Robert, that Callie will become emancipated and choose to live in their home, and there's nothing he can do to prevent that. She wants Robert away from Callie by whatever means necessary (without Callie being in a dangerous situation of course). I think Stef should just have Callie wear a sandwich board that says, "She's MY daughter! Minemineminemine."  

[LeGrandElephant]

Does Mariana know who her father is? How bizarre of Brandon to tell her the reason for them not adopting the baby was that they don't know who the father is.

[possibilities]

I would love to see Brandon get back into his Classical training; I've always thought it was a pretty unique story line for TV (although, I could see the "Brandon loses his gift/can't play anymore" thing coming). Most teens on TV are star athletes and it's nice to see musical talent getting some attention.

You might enjoy Everwood-- the main character was a teenager with musical talent. The show isn't only about that, but there's quite a bit of piano-playing going on and drama surrounding it.

 

"Losing a friend" might mean getting shot, or it could mean Connor won't or can't hang out with him anymore. It would be like this show to do a PSA about guns, and even though my heart stopped when the shot went off, I'm really hoping no one got killed.

 

Also: I love Taylor. I want her to be my friend! Her idea was terrible, but I still like her. Best case scenario, she screams: Dad! It's me! and her father holsters up and no one got hurt. They'd surely call the parents of all the kids anyway, with them caught at that hour not only out of their houses without permission, but also with booze and seriously rattled by the gunfire.

 

Stef will go apeshit not only over Jude having snuck out, but also about reckless gunfire. I wonder if Stef gets on the bad side of all the other parents because of how she reacts to this. She seems to be long on action/short on tact right now. I love her, and I'm not the most tactful person myself, but I see how the show has been driving it home that her off-the-handle way of being is an issue.

 

"Losing a friend" might also have been Lena making a leap. Jude was using the present tense: "now we're..." he said. He didn't say "we were" he said: "we are." So he's upset and confused but it didn't sound final. Maybe I'm bargaining, though. Don't kill Connor, you writers! Don't you know that killing the queers is a trope! Has to be tragedy one way or another? Noooooooooo

 

If they break up the friendship permanently, I can't even say I wouldn't find it realiztic. And maybe it would open up the possibliity of Jude finding other boys, maybe those who are less ambivalent about being out and who would date him above ground.

 

Or maybe if Connor does get shot, but survives, he gets bolder afterwards. I don't see how his father would blame Jude more than the rest of them. The whole thing was led by Taylor, and Daria was also there. And also... wasn't Jude the last one out of the room, and Connor out first? So how would he be shot? Maybe everyone's crying because they're freaked out, not because the shot landed.

 

Emancipating Callie seems like a really hard road. It's true though that she's close to 18 already. If she's already 16, and they have another few months during the "waiting period," she could conceivably be 17 or a little older by the next time they go before a judge. At that age, isn't her preference pretty much taken extremely seriously? 35 years ago my parents had a nasty divorce and I was told that I would get to choose who I lived with if they actually fought for custody. I have always thought that after a certain age, the child's point of view was much more weighty.

 

But the real thing is: maybe if Robert saw Callie being miserable and really wanting to be elsewhere, he could have let her go voluntarily because he did want her to be happy. Maybe during the weekend visitations he could see that forcing her is not the way to bond. And they could come to some voluntary arrangement like the one Lena proposed last season (more people to love her) rather than this adversarial mess. I mean, how on earth is Callie going to work full time and go to school and spend weekends with Robert? Is she going to work nights? Doing what? I hate it that no one is trying to come up with a win-win solution here. It's sad as hell and seems so unnecessary.

 

Monte: let go of Lena. Lena: stop socializing with your boss and go home and work on things with Stef. Stef: trust Lena more and bring her into your thoughts if you want her to do the same and not go running to new girl on the block. I actually think Lena and Stef both have points to make about how their collaborative decision-making could be improved. Lena took too long to get off the pot about having confiscated the Plan B from Jesus and his then-girlfriend. Stef took action because Lena was basically vetoing their options by stalling. If you either you veto by action or by inaction, you're no longer working together. Stef gives in when she sees that something is important to Lena (like having another kid) but Lena also needs to understand that Stef is not willing to back down as easily as she is, and needs to take other kinds of risks sometimes, which moves Lena out of her comfort zone. They need to work on this like they worked on the good parent/bad parent dynamic. Fight for your marriage, not just your kids.

 

Brandon and Mariana going behind the moms backs about Ana's baby... I sure hope this doesn't become a retread of the "adoptive parents vs genetic parents" custody debacle. And again: confront your family members and don't keep going behind each others' backs!! Everything goes better when you are team. It was really stupid of the moms to tell Jesus and not Mariana what they were thinking, and expect Jesus not to leak the rumor to the other sibs.

 

Callie and Mariana: awesome.

 

Mike will be hurt that Ana chose Stef and Lena over him. I feel bad for him in the sense that he's trying, and he's almost always disappointed. But I don't feel like it's the wrong decision. Ana herself said he's barely sober, and she's right about that. he can be a great person but not stable enough to be a new parent. Not so long ago he got smashed at Mariana's quincinera and his 16 year old drove him home so he wouldn't drive drunk or continue making a scene. He can't seriously think he's ready to adopt an infant as a single parent when he's not even sober for a year and just got called out on being a compulsive rescuer?

 

 

 

 

[LeGrandElephant]

I would really prefer no one got shot, and they're all just freaked out. But the previews looked like a hospital room? Or maybe just a white room? Could all be a fake out I hope. It works as an anti-gun PSA whether or not anyone actually got hurt.

Edited March 10, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[ShortyMac]

You might enjoy Everwood-- the main character was a teenager with musical talent. The show isn't only about that, but there's quite a bit of piano-playing going on and drama surrounding it.

 

I have watched Everwood. I appreciate the suggestion.

[RedFire2000]

I'm guessing the relationship between Brandon and Lou is over especially when he decided to not go on tour and continue classic training. I don't find their relationship boring and interested and I'm not a fan of the Lou character.

[SawmillTurtle]

Ahem. Time to get up on my soapbox, because I am really not happy and I have a lot to say.

*soapbox on*

I find myself disappointed in the whole thing. What I was interested in the most in this episode was Jude and Connor. That was an incredibly important event in both their lives last week, and once again their subplot got the back burner. Hey, let's not give TOO much focus to the waters we stirred up among the fans last week. Instead, let's focus a lot on Brandon's band and Callie joining... the... dance team?? Yeah, you can't tell me THAT wasn't filler.

The bomb they dropped on the world last week got almost no time at all, until the very end. Then they basically undid everything that happened last week. Is Connor interested in anything more than a good time with Jude? Doesn't appear to be the case. Yet he's worked Jude so hard through the last two seasons, kissing him in the tent and giving him presents, painting his nails and holding his hand. Part of the sweetness was his insecurities mixed with his love for Jude and his compassion. Now his attitude shifts to, what exactly? "We have chicks now, so let's get drunk and shag?"

I sincerely hope not.

Jude, to his credit, was having none of it. When Connor suggested they, what, go fool around? When he suggested that, Jude was quick to turn him down. Jude is not interested in casual groping. If it were anyone else but Jude, I would be surprised that a thirteen year old is looking for something more meaningful. But it is Jude. And Jude has been through hell. He's never had a real friend or a real family, never had someone who cared about him (other than Callie) that he could trust. With his rescue from that douchebag gorilla foster father in episode 1, you know that underneath his sweet demeanor are abandonment and trust issues. If Connor truly abandons him, it will destroy him.

I am concerned about this. I am worried that the heartbreaking sobs we saw in the preview might be caused by this. Yes, the writers are claiming that Jude and Connor have stories in season 3, but when did they ever say they were of the same kind? Who's to say their relationship won't be strained and awkward?

*soapbox off*

Thanks for listening.

-Turtle.

[Perfect Xero]

Blackmail is a crime! Seriously, the Cops on Gotham aren't as awful as Stef.
 

Emancipating Callie seems like a really hard road. It's true though that she's close to 18 already. If she's already 16, and they have another few months during the "waiting period," she could conceivably be 17 or a little older by the next time they go before a judge. At that age, isn't her preference pretty much taken extremely seriously? 35 years ago my parents had a nasty divorce and I was told that I would get to choose who I lived with if they actually fought for custody. I have always thought that after a certain age, the child's point of view was much more weighty.

I think that the difference in your situation is that you had two parents who both had a clear legal right to custody. Callie's only legal parent is Robert (and her Mother who is deceased). She's a ward of the state because the state managed to somehow not notice that Robert's name was on her birth certificate for years while she was shipped through lousy foster homes and went to Juvi several times. Stef and Lena are paid caregivers who work for the state.

The state keeping Callie away from her birth father (who is neither a felon or a sex offender) basically goes against every stated purpose of the foster system,.

So the analogous situation would be if you went before that judge and told them that you didn't want to live with either of your parents, but rather some other adults who you are not related to and who you had known for less than a year.

I don't know how an emancipation would even work in this situation.

As far as I'm aware, contrary to what Stef says, parental consent is required for Callie to live on her own. Parents are given a chance to contest emancipation in court. The idea that they'd be able to end around this during an ongoing custody situation is rather absurd IMO.

Also, seriously, their plan for Callie to be adopted by them is for her to ... go live by herself with no financial assistance from anyone, work a "full time job", and still maintain her education while lying to Robert about the whole thing while seeing him once a week and every other weekend? Sounds foolproof. I mean, how the heck is she going to maintain the image of living on her own, separate from Stef and Lena while another judge is ordering her to stay with them while she "gets to know" Robert and spending every other weekend with him? How would this result in anything other than Robert's lawyers completely obliterating the entire thing and him being named Emperor of the sovereign nation of California after he sued the state in to oblivion?

[LisaM]

I absolutely do not see either Lena or Stef cheating regardless of the lack of communication. I wonder if Monte makes a move on Lena - who then shuts it down?

 

Really liked seeing the bond between Mariana and Callie continue to develop. Loved Callie showing up for dance tryouts to support Mariana. Glad that Brandon is choosing the music school over the band tour and remembering how much classical music means to him. Once again, Jesus seems to be dropped into one or two scenes just so that his face can be shown.

 

I feel badly for Jill that Robert is cheating on her.

[Primetimer]

By which Al Lowe means stupid things.

Read the story

[maraleia]

Here's my theory about why Jesus is dropped randomly into scenes. I think Jake was sentenced to community service for his two arrests and has to complete so many hours a week hence why he's not in scenes he should be in and it's also why they are doing this boarding school story. That's the only explanation I can see for Jake's absence from certain scenes like the dinner scene in last night's episode.

If that is the case I'm surprised that the tabloids haven't reported on this. Mind you this is pure speculation on my part.

[HeatherinThailand]

Damn, trailer, way to spoil the shocking ending of the "who gets shot" mystery! WTF? Also, isn't Stef a cop? Isn't what she is doing/has done breaking more than one law? Maybe not, but it's breaking some moral codes at least. I think the idea of adopting the baby is a bad one. Losing Jesus and gaining a baby is not a fair trade for the viewers. I also am nervous about Monte. That hug was a little too long and fraught with feeling.

[Ljohnson1987]

This was a good episode. I'm glad that Stef and Lena  are going to adopt Ana's baby.  Am I the only one who does not like Robert? He's so manipulative. Also, what happened to Sophia?

[LeGrandElephant]

I think Stef is the one being manipulative. What has Robert done that's manipulative? He even made a point of NOT manipulating Callie by telling her about the girls United house - he waited until she had already said she wanted to live with him.

As far as I can recall, both Robert and Lena have been perfectly nice and reasonable, and Stef has been acting like a crazy person and abusing her power as a cop and now actually breaking a serious law (blackmail).

[Lady Calypso]

I am incredibly disappointed by Stef's actions these last few episodes. Although I may understand why she's doing this and why she wants Callie to not live with Robert and live with her and Lena instead, I'm not sure she's going the right away about this. First of all, I'm pretty sure emancipation is difficult to get, and I'm sure it'll be even more difficult with Callie's record and her current situation with having two sets of parents fighting for her. I'm pretty sure the judge will see right through Stef's plan, first of all. The judge would have to see Callie actually working full time and going to school, maintaining all of that, while seeing and lying to Robert. I don't know much about this emancipation, mind you, but I would think it would take a while to get that to officially go through and I don't think that'll be good for Callie in the end. I think by the time she gets the emancipation, she'd already be seventeen.

 

I also am confused as to why Stef hates Robert so much. It's actually as if she has a personal vendetta against him. Sure, he's not father of the year, but I personally don't mind him because he's trying so hard and he's still giving Callie her space. He's being quite reasonable in this situation; he could have taken Callie away, not let Stef and Lena get to see her, and that would be the end of that. But he's actually being not only accommodating, but willing to wait and compromise with Callie. If anything, I feel like Robert's giving her more of a choice, while Stef thinks she is but it's really a facade. I don't know; I know Robert can be a jerk, he's apparently cheating on his wife and he's made some bad choices, but Stef's making her own bad choices so this just isn't going to end well for Callie. I'm just not looking forward to Stef using her information on Robert to get Callie when this emancipation plan doesn't work out, and I don't want her to go there. I'm someone who really loved Stef in the first season, but this season is not doing her justice. 

 

As for Jude/Connor, I'm disappointed with the way they've been doing this storyline. Ok, well I've been pretty happy but this episode seemed to derail it a bit. Up until this episode, I would have bought that Connor was just using the girls as a means to figure out his own sexuality, but now I'm a bit befuddled. I mean, I could buy that Connor is dating that girl (urg, I'm sorry I forget her name but i remember Taylor!) so that his dad thinks he's still straight, but this episode had him very happily going to suggest they get drunk and make out with the girls and it's confusing. So, does Connor like Jude or not? I think he does, but does he like him in the way that Jude does? They did kiss last episode but nothing's come of that since then, and I think for once, they need to speed things along so we get answers. And this storyline has only taken up about fifteen minutes of the last few episodes, which is disappointing. It's the most interesting and most original one, and they're throwing it away for cliche drama. 

 

I don't think anyone gets shot; I do think Connor will back off of Jude for awhile though (or maybe even Jude backs off of Connor) and their friendship/romance will be on the backburner until next season. I don't want that to happen, but there may be hope. I do think they'll eventually end up together, but they're taking their time. Why, though, I'm not sure. We get a stupid emancipation storyline and not the really good storylines that matter. 

 

And this episode was mostly just filler anyway. I wasn't that entertained by the Mariana/Callie dance subplot because it seemed useless and misplaced in this episode. It felt more like it should have been saved for an episode where Callie was less involved in the story. Brandon and his band storyline was a little less filler, but it was still...kinda pointless, actually. And this Monte/Lena storyline, well, I do have my suspicions on it being a cheating storyline, and it'll definitely create more rifts in Stef/Lena, but I don't think it'll end in a divorce storyline. Maybe a separation storyline (and they're doing a good job in showing how Lena wouldn't be the only factor in their separation) but they would get back together.

[TVForever]

Ahem. Time to get up on my soapbox, because I am really not happy and I have a lot to say.

*soapbox on*

I find myself disappointed in the whole thing. What I was interested in the most in this episode was Jude and Connor. That was an incredibly important event in both their lives last week, and once again their subplot got the back burner. Hey, let's not give TOO much focus to the waters we stirred up among the fans last week. Instead, let's focus a lot on Brandon's band and Callie joining... the... dance team?? Yeah, you can't tell me THAT wasn't filler.

The bomb they dropped on the world last week got almost no time at all, until the very end. Then they basically undid everything that happened last week. Is Connor interested in anything more than a good time with Jude? Doesn't appear to be the case. Yet he's worked Jude so hard through the last two seasons, kissing him in the tent and giving him presents, painting his nails and holding his hand. Part of the sweetness was his insecurities mixed with his love for Jude and his compassion. Now his attitude shifts to, what exactly? "We have chicks now, so let's get drunk and shag?"

I sincerely hope not.

Jude, to his credit, was having none of it. When Connor suggested they, what, go fool around? When he suggested that, Jude was quick to turn him down. Jude is not interested in casual groping. If it were anyone else but Jude, I would be surprised that a thirteen year old is looking for something more meaningful. But it is Jude. And Jude has been through hell. He's never had a real friend or a real family, never had someone who cared about him (other than Callie) that he could trust. With his rescue from that douchebag gorilla foster father in episode 1, you know that underneath his sweet demeanor are abandonment and trust issues. If Connor truly abandons him, it will destroy him.

I am concerned about this. I am worried that the heartbreaking sobs we saw in the preview might be caused by this. Yes, the writers are claiming that Jude and Connor have stories in season 3, but when did they ever say they were of the same kind? Who's to say their relationship won't be strained and awkward?

*soapbox off*

Thanks for listening.

-Turtle.

        

        I could get with your argument more if Jude and Connor were adults. But cut them some slack. They're kids, who are likely experiencing their first romantic relationships. That's awkward enough, without the extra wrinkle of questioning their sexuality as part of the package. Jude's a very sensitive kid-gay or straight, he would likely have the same reaction to seeing the person he's crushing on kissing someone else. Connor is likely surprised by his feelings for Jude, and is exploring that, along with whatever her feels for Daria. But he's not ready to walk the halls at school holding hands with Jude just yet. We've had the luxury of seeing Jude heading in this direction for a long time; we haven't had that with Connor, but I suspect this is his first inkling of his attraction to another boy. I find this storyline pretty realistic, given their ages, and kind of sweet.

[Black Knight]

An interesting episode. I like that everyone is allowed to have feet of clay, and that Stef going off the rails rather illustrates exactly why it's good for her and Lena to be together. Theirs is a pairing that nicely complements their individual strengths and weaknesses (props to the poster who mentioned a psychologist who said that one's worst trait is their best trait taken to the extreme), when they talk to each other and make decisions together. It's when they make decisions on their own that they're particularly questionable.

 

That said, I'm on Team Callie, and Stef is on Team Callie, so I remain more tolerant of her than I do Robert. Robert and Stef/Lena both find themselves in a shitty emotional situation. But Robert started all this when he decided to go for custody against Callie's expressed wishes. I feel for him not finding out he was a father until after Callie had already bonded with another family. But in the end it's far harder for Callie to be taken away from the one family she's bonded with since her entire life blew up when she was a kid than it is for Robert to continue to live apart from her, and I don't see why Callie should have to be the one to give up what she wants. Robert is being far more MeMeMeMineMineMine than Stef is: He's the one who went for custody against Callie's wishes. Stef was of course deeply unhappy when Callie told her she was going to go live with Robert, but despite her unhappiness and her spidey-sense correctly telling her there was something else going on, she didn't actually do anything against Callie's expressed wishes. She was going to let Callie go, same as she was going to let Brandon live with his father in S1 when he told her that's what he wanted. She picked up this fight again only upon learning Callie's true desires.

 

Yes, I think the blackmail was too far, but I'm not going to have much time for Robert so long as he continues actively going against Callie's wishes because he wants what he wants. That's still the key difference between him and Stef/Lena for me; they do think first of what Callie wants, while Robert thinks first of what he wants. Callie was perfectly willing to have a relationship with him, but that wasn't enough for him. And he's the one who first stepped over the line in the custody battle by telling Callie to lie to her legal guardians. Then Stef went to his house, but on his end he was smug and condescending. So I don't think either he or Stef have behaved too well. But I still find his MeMeMeMineMineMine routine far more loathsome than Stef's because he denies Callie agency and thus treats her as a possession, while Stef actually pays attention to Callie as a person.

 

What I like about the emancipation idea is that, as was said last night, it's the one thing that makes it so that Callie finally has the agency to make her own damn decision, since her biological father won't listen to her. I hope when Robert finds out, it causes him to do some serious soul-searching. He's already ignored what she's expressly said she wants and choosing to ignore her clear unhappiness over going to live with him. No, I don't think it would be awful to live with him, he's not a bad guy, but that's not the point: The point is that it's not what she wants, and she is more than old enough that her wishes should be paramount, especially after how she's been kicked around all her life. For her forming attachments is very difficult, and she's formed an attachment to Stef and Lena as her moms, loving them that way and referring to them that way. Someone with her attachment issues will hold especially hard to the few attachments she manages to make, which explains why she's so deeply unhappy about leaving the Fosters home. (And she's certainly not going to get attached to Robert by being forced by him to go live with him.)

 

In other news, Mariana continues to be everything. Cierra Ramirez is just amazing. I see from IMDB she just turned 20 yesterday. She's already so good.

[LeGrandElephant]

 I'm not going to have much time for Robert so long as he continues actively going against Callie's wishes because he wants what he wants. 

 

 

 

The problem with that is that Callie TOLD Robert she wanted to live with him, and she never told him that she hadn't really wanted to and was only saying that because of legal issues. So now, as far as he knows, he isn't going against her wishes. And if she tells him she changed her mind again just now without telling him the reason and that she never actually wanted to live with him, then it just makes her look like a kid who doesn't know what she wants - not a reason for him to leave her alone and respect her ever-changing decisions. 

 

And he's the one who first stepped over the line in the custody battle by telling Callie to lie to her legal guardians. 

 

I'm not very knowledgable about the law or foster system, but based on what I've read here, foster parents are not the same as legal guardians, and in real life he would have automatically become her legal guardian/parent as soon as the court figured out this whole situation existed. So its kind of hard for me to judge him based on the idea that Stef and Lena are her legal guardians. I DO think I can judge him for that advice from the point of view that telling Callie to keep something really stressful bottle up isn't good for her psychological and emotional health, but I don't think its any worse than Stef telling her she should get fake-emancipated and spend all her time working a full-time job to further that plan, with all else she has going on. Robert meant well with his legal advice, he meant to protect Callie and even possibly to protect Stef from being put in an untenable situation by knowing about it. We could take the view that he said it to manipulate Callie into driving a wedge between her and Stef and Lena, but I really haven't seen anything to indicate that he did it in that mustache twirling way. It really seemed like he was doing the best he could to protect Callie, after she asked him to. I think it was misguided in a couple ways, but not a terrible crime that means he should lose Callie. Stef is also ignoring Callie's stated wishes that they should stop spending money on lawyers to fight about this. And I doubt Callie would be very happy to find out Stef has been investigating, intimidating and blackmailing Robert. 

 

I just think the whole situation is ridiculous. Robert is a nice guy and a fit father, and since he lives nearby and seems to have unlimited wealth, Callie living with him wouldn't at all mean that she couldn't spend time with the Fosters and with Jude. If she suddenly has a car and doesn't have to spend hours working a fast food job, she could probably spend just as many hours with them as she does now. She could still go to the same school. If he was a jerk or lived far away, I'd understand the conflict. It also doesn't seem like Robert and Stef and Lena have any fundamental disagreements about how to raise Callie, which could also be a source of legitimate conflict. But as it is, it seems like the show is setting up silly conflict. The obvious solution on all sides is for Callie, who is nearly an adult anyway, to spend significant amounts of time at both houses. Both sets of parents should be facilitating that, not fighting over her. And they also should all be thinking more about the long term. In, what, a year and a half(?), she'll be a legal adult going away to college. If Robert pays for college and for her to have a car, she can visit both houses over breaks, and be part of both families. It will open up opportunities in life on both sides instead of closing them off. Its crazy to me that neither side has suggested some kind of shared custody setup. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[Lady Calypso]

That said, I'm on Team Callie, and Stef is on Team Callie, so I remain more tolerant of her than I do Robert. Robert and Stef/Lena both find themselves in a shitty emotional situation. But Robert started all this when he decided to go for custody against Callie's expressed wishes. I feel for him not finding out he was a father until after Callie had already bonded with another family. But in the end it's far harder for Callie to be taken away from the one family she's bonded with since her entire life blew up when she was a kid than it is for Robert to continue to live apart from her, and I don't see why Callie should have to be the one to give up what she wants. Robert is being far more MeMeMeMineMineMine than Stef is: He's the one who went for custody against Callie's wishes. Stef was of course deeply unhappy when Callie told her she was going to go live with Robert, but despite her unhappiness and her spidey-sense correctly telling her there was something else going on, she didn't actually do anything against Callie's expressed wishes. She was going to let Callie go, same as she was going to let Brandon live with his father in S1 when he told her that's what he wanted. She picked up this fight again only upon learning Callie's true desires.

 

Yes, I think the blackmail was too far, but I'm not going to have much time for Robert so long as he continues actively going against Callie's wishes because he wants what he wants. That's still the key difference between him and Stef/Lena for me; they do think first of what Callie wants, while Robert thinks first of what he wants. Callie was perfectly willing to have a relationship with him, but that wasn't enough for him. And he's the one who first stepped over the line in the custody battle by telling Callie to lie to her legal guardians. Then Stef went to his house, but on his end he was smug and condescending. So I don't think either he or Stef have behaved too well. But I still find his MeMeMeMineMineMine routine far more loathsome than Stef's because he denies Callie agency and thus treats her as a possession, while Stef actually pays attention to Callie as a person.

 

What I like about the emancipation idea is that, as was said last night, it's the one thing that makes it so that Callie finally has the agency to make her own damn decision, since her biological father won't listen to her. I hope when Robert finds out, it causes him to do some serious soul-searching. He's already ignored what she's expressly said she wants and choosing to ignore her clear unhappiness over going to live with him. No, I don't think it would be awful to live with him, he's not a bad guy, but that's not the point: The point is that it's not what she wants, and she is more than old enough that her wishes should be paramount, especially after how she's been kicked around all her life. For her forming attachments is very difficult, and she's formed an attachment to Stef and Lena as her moms, loving them that way and referring to them that way. Someone with her attachment issues will hold especially hard to the few attachments she manages to make, which explains why she's so deeply unhappy about leaving the Fosters home. (And she's certainly not going to get attached to Robert by being forced by him to go live with him.)

 

 

I think you make some extremely interesting and valid points. I don't necessarily agree with you, and I'll explain why in a bit, but I do think that these points are completely valid. I can see where you get this from, for the most part. I think that Callie has finally found stability in her life, but with Robert in the picture, it's thrown everything off course again. She's still just a kid and she needs to know where she belongs. Stef and Lena have provided her with safety and comfort, something she's never really had so I absolutely understand why she wants to live with them over Robert. She knows Stef and Lena more, even if it's only by a few months, and she trusts them more than him and I get it. They provided her own brother with the comfort that he won't ever have to leave to a new home again, and they've been fighting to adopt Callie even though they haven't known her that long. That's a huge thing and that's good for Callie. I'm all for Callie not living with Robert and being adopted by the Fosters. She's happier there and she can be with her brother. It's a much better situation for her there and I hope she gets that.

 

However, the thing about Robert is that I see where he's coming from. I don't think he's a bad guy in any way, I just think he's misguided. I do think that Robert is not as much Team Callie as he could be, but I do think that he's still Team Callie. The thing is, he has the advantage over Stef and Lena right now. He can, for the most part, say 'I'm going to take my daughter and not give up custody' and be done with it. He has a lot more power over Stef and Lena because, at the end of the day, he's her father, he has reasons for not being around until now and he presumably has no record that would tell the judge why he's not fit as a father to raise Callie (well....besides the whole affair thing). But I do think Robert is thinking about Callie and I do think him and Stef are on similar wavelengths, as they are thinking more about themselves. Well, for Stef, she's doing it in a different way.

 

Robert is accommodating toward Callie and her needs. Stef says that Robert is only giving it more time to 'get the advantage over them' or whatever, but that's only Stef's opinion. I do think that Robert and Stef/Lena need to be communicating more because right now, they're actually battling for Callie (which is good for Callie, as she sees two sides loving her so much) but it's also bad because at the end of the day, neither are actually thinking about Callie much at all. They're thinking about themselves and what they want. Robert, though, seems to be scared of losing Callie and he has reasons to. Callie has only recently been letting herself open up and get to know him. Before this, she would probably be happy not getting to know Robert at all and I think that's what is scaring him into not signing over his rights. It's well intentioned, and he's not taking her away from Stef and Lena either. He could, but he's not. He's allowing Callie to have her foster family, but he also is being selfish and wanting her too. It's understandable and I feel for him. It can't be easy to give up a daughter, possibly for good, when he just met her. 

 

Stef came up with this plan of emancipation all on her own. Yes, she stretched the idea out to Callie, but I'm not sure she would give up the idea if Callie didn't want to do it. I think there is pressure on Callie now to do this, despite Stef saying it's her choice. It's a difficult situation, but with Stef investigating Robert to get information on him to use against him, just so Callie can be adopted by them? That's just as manipulative as Robert not signing the papers. Ok, maybe not AS bad, but still pretty bad. Stef and Robert are both in the wrong because I don't think either of them are fully on Team Callie, but they're both not Anti Callie either. They're both doing things that are good and bad, both manipulative and caring. Ok, yes Robert looked smug this episode when the judge granted him every other weekend, and I fault him for that. But I do think Stef is equally in the wrong, just like Robert, and I'm all for Team Callie, but I personally don't think Stef is on Team Callie either. If she has to blackmail and manipulate (even subconsciously) Callie, then I can't be on their sides. Lena, though, seems to be fully on Callie's side, which is fantastic so I'm all for Lena on Team Callie.

 

But honestly, the major problem is that Stef and Robert are not talking, and they're not talking with Callie together, so that's where this whole mess comes in. I think that's the missing piece that needs to be fixed. These two need to get their priorities straight, or else Callie's happiness will not matter because she won't be happy.

[rachel1496]

So this season is going to end with Stef and Lena completely losing thier license to foster, right?   What Stef has done, and is continuing to do with the fake emancipation plan, is so insanely far out of bounds I can't see any other logical way to end this.  When you take on foster children you do so knowing that the goal of the system is family reunification whenever possible.  The fact that she's actively working against Callie being reunited with her biological father to the point where she's now committing blackmail makes her a terrible foster parent.  I'm not saying it does (or doesn't) make her a terrible person but from a foster parenting perspective she sucks.  If fostering in The Fosters was anything like fostering in real life Stef and Lena would be done because of this.  It's a really big deal and it annoys the hell out of me that the show refuses to address it.

[LeGrandElephant]

They shouldn't have named the show The Fosters. It should have been The Blended Adoptive Family. They aren't acting like foster parents or showing any intention to continue fostering children when the current batch move out. I thought the show was going to be about a family who habitually fostered children, not a family who has taken in foster kids exactly twice and both times has switched to adopting or fighting to adopt them.

I agree Stef should be in trouble and at the very least lose her license to be a foster parent.

(Also, are we supposed to believe they kept their license active for many years after adopting the twins, while not intending to foster more children, and then let it lapse after Callie was living with them as a foster kid?)

[Perfect Xero]

Another thing on the whole Emancipation plan ... Stef literally just blackmailed Robert with pictures, what makes her think that he's not going to have them investigated at this point? If I were rich and being blackmailed the first thing I'd try to do is hire every PI in the state to get dirt on the person blackmailing me. I'm pretty sure that they might notice things like Callie not living there any more.

So this season is going to end with Stef and Lena completely losing thier license to foster, right?   What Stef has done, and is continuing to do with the fake emancipation plan, is so insanely far out of bounds I can't see any other logical way to end this.  When you take on foster children you do so knowing that the goal of the system is family reunification whenever possible.  The fact that she's actively working against Callie being reunited with her biological father to the point where she's now committing blackmail makes her a terrible foster parent.  I'm not saying it does (or doesn't) make her a terrible person but from a foster parenting perspective she sucks.  If fostering in The Fosters was anything like fostering in real life Stef and Lena would be done because of this.  It's a really big deal and it annoys the hell out of me that the show refuses to address it.

That's the thing, Stef and Lena have, apparently, never fostered anyone other than the twins and Jude/Callie. There's never been a single mention from Brandon, Jesus, or Mariana about a former Foster brother or sister, no pictures around the house of Stef or Lena with random kids, ect ... Would they even care about losing their license?

 

It seems like they only got in to the Foster system in the first place as a means to adopt the twins, and did absolutely nothing for years until a social worker convinced them to let Callie stay with them for a while when she got out of Juvi (and then brought in Jude because he was her brother), who they then got attached to and decided to adopt as well.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Perfect Xero

[LeGrandElephant]

I thought Stef said that Callie would have to get a full time job to show she could afford rent if necessary, but would not actually have to rent her own apartment? I wasn't clear on that. If she's not actually going to live elsewhere, there's less for Robert to notice. But I still don't see how she can fit in a full time job with school and everything else. And who gives full time jobs to 16 year olds, anyway? (Not to mention who rents to them ... I don't know, maybe people do. But I've had landlords act skeptical that I could afford rent as a grad student, and I had to convince them it would be ok.)

But, maybe an investigator for Robert could dig up all the drama with Callie and Brandon, which is a pretty good reason for her not to keep living there.

 

Or, maybe Robert could go with the best way to get out from under blackmail - tell his wife about the affair himself. And then have Stef arrested for blackmail. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[Kat]

 

I hadn't been too annoyed at Stef's actions until tonight.  The blackmail was really inappropriate, especially since Lena didn't know about it.  And I think forcing Callie to emancipate herself isn't right either.  I know Callie wanted to do that at one point, but I don't think she does anymore.  Making her get a full time job so the judge thinks she can support herself seems like a big burden to put on her

It worries me that Stef is being so reckless with the law and bending the rules until the almost snap. This whole thing is going to backfire on them I fear, and Callie will be f*cked over AGAIN.

 

 

Monte: let go of Lena. Lena: stop socializing with your boss and go home and work on things with Stef. Stef: trust Lena more and bring her into your thoughts if you want her to do the same and not go running to new girl on the block. I actually think Lena and Stef both have points to make about how their collaborative decision-making could be improved. Lena took too long to get off the pot about having confiscated the Plan B from Jesus and his then-girlfriend. Stef took action because Lena was basically vetoing their options by stalling. If you either you veto by action or by inaction, you're no longer working together. Stef gives in when she sees that something is important to Lena (like having another kid) but Lena also needs to understand that Stef is not willing to back down as easily as she is, and needs to take other kinds of risks sometimes, which moves Lena out of her comfort zone. They need to work on this like they worked on the good parent/bad parent dynamic. Fight for your marriage, not just your kids.

I agree 100% with this!!  Stef and Lena however, still have one of the most compelling and realistic marriages on scripted television, so I'm hoping they can both get everything back on track. Also? Monte PLEASE GO AWAY.

 

I for one was glad they showed Jude first thing in the preview for next week's ep - I screamed "NO, not Jude!" at my tv when that guy fired his gun. I was so relieved to see that Jude hadn't been shot. I hope Conner and the girls are fine.

 

Not that I in any way care about the Mariana's dance team plot, but I keep thinking that they're going to have Mat join their team. IRL Jordan Rodrigues is a great dancer (he starred on my beloved show "Dance Academy"!) and I think it would actually be interesting to see how their relationship grew (or suffered) with them being on a competitive team together.

 

 

[gesundheit]

Robert, who Callie was spending time with and getting to know and building a relationship with willingly, went back on an important promise and decided to remove her from the home where she lives with her brother (the only family member she has always been side-by-side with) and the only stable home she's ever known. (Okay, it's a little unstable in the sense that enough drama has to happen there to make it worth a TV show, but you know what I mean.) In fact, he went back on his promise to Callie specifically because she was actually letting him be a big part of her life. That's a weird red flag. And he has not, at any point, suggested shared custody. Which they could do. Being adopted actually matters, it's not just about letting her spend time with the Fosters. She could be adopted by them and still have a legal and actual relationship with her biological father. He does not want that. He has insisted on full custody only.

 

As mentioned above, Stef and Lena were willing to let it go if Callie really did want to live with him. He refuses the same in return. I'm concerned about his parenting skills with this all-or-nothing attitude and his placing his own emotions over what appears to be best for his daughter.

 

What Stef is doing right now is completely out of line, but she's doing it based on Callie crying in her arms, devastated because leaving the Fosters is the last thing she wants. It doesn't make it okay, but I do think her intentions are for Callie. She just needs to stop it.

 

I really hate all this, though. I think they could have written a moving, human story, but now adding all this adultery and blackmail, etc., onto it just makes it trashy soap.

 

I really, really hope that at some point everyone will come to their senses and agree to shared custody. It's outright bizarre that nobody has seriously considered this yet. People can have both adoptive and biological parents, and everyone can live through it!

[RachelKM]

Robert, who Callie was spending time with and getting to know and building a relationship with willingly, went back on an important promise and decided to remove her from the home where she lives with her brother (the only family member she has always been side-by-side with) and the only stable home she's ever known. (Okay, it's a little unstable in the sense that enough drama has to happen there to make it worth a TV show, but you know what I mean.) In fact, he went back on his promise to Callie specifically because she was actually letting him be a big part of her life. That's a weird red flag. And he has not, at any point, suggested shared custody. Which they could do. Being adopted actually matters, it's not just about letting her spend time with the Fosters. She could be adopted by them and still have a legal and actual relationship with her biological father. He does not want that. He has insisted on full custody only.

I'm not sure this is wholly accurate.  Robert was blindsided with the fact that he a) had a daughter he never knew about and b) she already had people who wanted to adopt her and had already adopted her brother.  He was willing to do what she wanted because he believed it would make her happy and he even went through with it.  But she basically gave him hope she could love him and then he immediately learned that the papers he signed were destroyed and he'd have to do it all over again this time having built a bit of a bond with his daughter.  That IS INCREDIBLY HARD.  I don't think it's entirely fair to say that he's putting his desire before Callie's in saying he couldn't give up his daughter TWICE and not recognize what he's being asked to do.

 

And I'm pretty sure Robert has been very clear that Callie would be free to, and he expected that she would, maintain a relationship with the Fosters if she came to live with him.  Her brother was already adopted and Robert has never once indicated that he wants to interfere with that. I'm pretty sure that he said something just like that during their dinner, that she could visit Jude, and he her, regularly.

 

Also, though clearly she could maintain an actual relationship with him if adopted if she wanted to, I don't think it is correct that Callie would still have any legal connection to Robert if adopted.  Adoption generally terminates biological parental rights.  The exception being step-parent adoption which only terminates one parent (the non-spouse parent) in the event that that parent is still alive.  I'm not aware of any legal proceeding that allows three simultaneous legal parents.   Thus, the result would be a legal stranger who had not claim to her or her time.

 

And I am less ok with Stef's behavior as well.  I agree with you that she is desperate and trying to make sure she keeps her daughter and that she has Callie's wants and needs in mind generally; however, this emancipation plan is not only out there, but has the potential to do emotional harm to Callie that Stef is willfully ignoring.  As many have discussed in the past, the adoption of Callie is an important emotional step that has value in and of itself.  By that same token, to a kid who has felt unwanted and wants to belong to a family, going before a judge and claiming to no want them or any family, even just for show or to achieve the ends of adoption, will hurt her.  I would be less annoyed with Stef if she were addressing that, even if couched as a necessary evil in her mind.  I know she had the "Nothing could ever make us not want you" speech last week, but this plan sort of has echos of the reverse even if for show.

 

All of that said, I still want to see Callie adopted by the Fosters.  I just have a less dim view of Robert's tactics and a somewhat more ambivalent/concerned reaction to Stef's.

Edited March 11, 2015 by RachelKM

[rachel1496]

Another thing on the whole Emancipation plan ... Stef literally just blackmailed Robert with pictures, what makes her think that he's not going to have them investigated at this point? If I were rich and being blackmailed the first thing I'd try to do is hire every PI in the state to get dirt on the person blackmailing me. I'm pretty sure that they might notice things like Callie not living there any more.

That's the thing, Stef and Lena have, apparently, never fostered anyone other than the twins and Jude/Callie. There's never been a single mention from Brandon, Jesus, or Mariana about a former Foster brother or sister, no pictures around the house of Stef or Lena with random kids, ect ... Would they even care about losing their license?

 

It seems like they only got in to the Foster system in the first place as a means to adopt the twins, and did absolutely nothing for years until a social worker convinced them to let Callie stay with them for a while when she got out of Juvi (and then brought in Jude because he was her brother), who they then got attached to and decided to adopt as well.

 

If they lost thier license before they were able to adopt Callie she'd be removed from the home immediately and probably placed back with Robert full time.  Any chance they had at adopting her would be gone given the circumstances.  I don't necessarily want to see it happen but I do want the show to stop ignoring the possibility.   I want to see Lena losing her shit because she realizes that Stef really is risking everything right now.

[Perfect Xero]

This show turns everything to 11, after the kids had a party where people were drinking and no one died of alcohol poisoning or was gang raped, I thought that maybe they'd mellow a little. But, nah, It's not enough that Jude has relationship drama with a guy who has a girlfriend, Jude and his friend sneak in to her house in the middle of the night to steal booze, it's not enough that Dad wakes up and catches them, Dad wakes up and comes running downstairs with a gun and fires at the first sound he hears.
 

 

As mentioned above, Stef and Lena were willing to let it go if Callie really did want to live with him. He refuses the same in return. I'm concerned about his parenting skills with this all-or-nothing attitude and his placing his own emotions over what appears to be best for his daughter.

 

Stef and Lena have absolutely no choice though if Callie decides she wants to stay with Robert, her wishes are the only conceivable reason that the court has held up things as long as they have (seriously a 180 day "getting to know you" period for Robert? Did I hear that right, 5 months?), it's not like they were "letting her" do anything, or they have any actual legal avenue to fight it if she wants to live with Robert. Even then Stef asked her to not tell Robert about her decision, which was the extent of what she could do at the time.
 

I thought Stef said that Callie would have to get a full time job to show she could afford rent if necessary, but would not actually have to rent her own apartment? I wasn't clear on that. If she's not actually going to live elsewhere, there's less for Robert to notice. But I still don't see how she can fit in a full time job with school and everything else. And who gives full time jobs to 16 year olds, anyway? (Not to mention who rents to them ... I don't know, maybe people do. But I've had landlords act skeptical that I could afford rent as a grad student, and I had to convince them it would be ok.)

But, maybe an investigator for Robert could dig up all the drama with Callie and Brandon, which is a pretty good reason for her not to keep living there.

Or, maybe Robert could go with the best way to get out from under blackmail - tell his wife about the affair himself. And then have Stef arrested for blackmail.

According to google depending on the county in California you have to be living apart from your parents (with their consent) as one of the conditions for a judge ordering Emancipation. According to the CA courts website you have to at least prove that your parents don't mind if you move out on your own. Which is where they run in to the major stumbling block that Robert obviously wouldn't go for that.

Even in a scenario where Robert tells his wife and then reports Stef, the odds of her being arrested are pretty low unless she was dumb enough to do it via text message or email, since it would be his word against hers (and she's a cop, so there's almost 0 chance that they'd work with him to investigate her), he'd have to get her to threaten him again while she was being recorded to have any actual proof and probably send copies to the press as well to make sure that her cop buddies didn't "mishandle" the investigation.

[KaveDweller]

Stef basically told Lena that''s the beauty of her emancipation strategy - Robert doesn't need to know/be involved because it doesn't happen in family court. 

 

I know she said that, I was just wondering if that's how it really worked.  I had always thought that emancipation generally happened when there was some kind of conflict with the parent and they were part of the process.

 

But I still don't see how she can fit in a full time job with school and everything else. And who gives full time jobs to 16 year olds, anyway? (Not to mention who rents to them ... I don't know, maybe people do. But I've had landlords act skeptical that I could afford rent as a grad student, and I had to convince them it would be ok.)

 

I don't think anyone would rent to a typical 16-year-old, but if they were emancipated and the court had deemed them financially capable they would have better luck.  It likely would depend where they are renting though.

[peachmangosteen]

This show has really gone downhill in a hurry, imo.

 

Lena and Stef are too annoying and self righteous and selfish and self absorbed for words now, and they really seem to have become pretty crappy parents, but I guess that's the theme of this show now: 101 ways to not parent children.

 

And as for the kids...so very irksome, all of them. Brandon has gotten worse, the twins are both nails on a chalkboard, Jude has outgrown his cuteness, and Callie really, truly needs to get back into therapy post haste. 

 

THIS! *claps*

 

I honestly hate most of the characters, but Stef takes the cake. She is awful. I hope she has to pay for this bullshit.

 

What in the world was up with that Brandon/Mariana convo? Brandon came off so very badly there. I mean I've always hated Brandon, but even I think that was just out of left field. I wondered if maybe he'd somehow been drugged or something. So strange.

 

I was so sad when they said there were two eps left. I thought there was one and was glad I only had one more week of watching this nightmare.

Edited March 10, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[RedFire2000]

This show is all over the place, too much going on

 

A lot of the characters are juggling multiple storylines right now and it's ruining the flow of show.

 

Mariana: She is trying to create a dance team, fighting to bring Timothy back as a teacher, dealing with Callie moving out, trying to find someone who will adopt her real mom's baby, finding out her twin wants to go to a boarding school and her boyfriend is going on tour without her.

 

Lena- problems with Stef (she always seems frustrated with her), grieving Frankie, upset about Timothy being fired, going back and forth about adopting Anna's baby, being a school VP, and now maybe something is up with the principal...

 

Callie- the Brandon thing, the Girls United thing, the Robert thing, the Sophia trying to kill herself thing, the cute guy from her volunteer job thing, and now she tries out for Mariana's dance team?!

 

There are so many things going on with the same characters that
1) the storylines are getting chopped up quick-fix endings,
2) other characters are not getting developed
3) the characters that have great storylines are getting more stories added to their plate causing the great storylines to drag out and lose momentum.

Edited March 11, 2015 by MoonWalker

[gesundheit]

And I'm pretty sure Robert has been very clear that Callie would be free to, and he expected that she would, maintain a relationship with the Fosters if she came to live with him.  Her brother was already adopted and Robert has never once indicated that he wants to interfere with that. I'm pretty sure that he said something just like that during their dinner, that she could visit Jude, and he her, regularly.

 

Also, though clearly she could maintain an actual relationship with him if adopted if she wanted to, I don't think it is correct that Callie would still have any legal connection to Robert if adopted.  Adoption generally terminates biological parental rights.  The exception being step-parent adoption which only terminates one parent (the non-spouse parent) in the event that that parent is still alive.  I'm not aware of any legal proceeding that allows three simultaneous legal parents.   Thus, the result would be a legal stranger who had not claim to her or her time.

It still takes her away from the Fosters. Being able to visit with them and her brother is hardly the same as her keeping a stable family unit with them, which is what she wants and is likely healthiest for her emotional development. He has at no point indicated that he's willing to share custody.

 

I actually do know people with more than two legal parents (i.e., combo of adoptive and bio parents). It's definitely possible for Stef and Lena to adopt Callie and for them to share custody with Robert. He only wants full custody. I don't think he's a bad guy and I can certainly see how this would be incredibly hard for him, but he's not considering a compromise. "You can hang out with your bro and his parents whenever!" is not a compromise. I imagine eventually we'll get one, it's just annoying to me that nobody has proposed a reasonable one yet. Why Robert cannot see why actually sharing a home with her brother is incredibly important is beyond me.

 

Stef and Lena have absolutely no choice though if Callie decides she wants to stay with Robert, her wishes are the only conceivable reason that the court has held up things as long as they have (seriously a 180 day "getting to know you" period for Robert? Did I hear that right, 5 months?), it's not like they were "letting her" do anything, or they have any actual legal avenue to fight it if she wants to live with Robert. 

I meant "letting her" as in giving their blessing and emotional support. Which they were doing. 

 

I hate what Stef is doing completely. But I was 100% Team Fosters before her latest move because Robert isn't willing to look at the big picture.

 

Moreover, I still hate that the show gave Callie a miraculous wealthy biological father out of nowhere. I get that they need drama, but it just seems to undermine the original lovely story they were trying to tell about a less traditional way to a loving family. I know this is hardly hyperrealism, but it does seem a little messed up to sort of bolster every isolated kid's fantasy that they have some millionaire parent out there somewhere. (Hell, I had two biological parents and even I wished as a kid that it would really turned out I sprung from the loins of some rich person!)

 

I blame Annie. Or something.

[LeGrandElephant]

I don't think the Fosters have suggested a compromise or shared custody eifher, have they?

[peachmangosteen]

I don't think the Fosters have suggested a compromise or shared custody eifher, have they?

 

Exactly. Because they want their way or nothing. As always.

 

This show has just gone so far off the rails it's mind boggling. I've never seen something turn so bad so quickly.

[Lady Calypso]

It still takes her away from the Fosters. Being able to visit with them and her brother is hardly the same as her keeping a stable family unit with them, which is what she wants and is likely healthiest for her emotional development. He has at no point indicated that he's willing to share custody.

 

 

I think that's because neither side has even discussed the possibility of shared custody, unless I'm mistaken. Stef and Lena are fighting for sole custody, similar to Robert. Here's the thing; either way it goes, one side is not going to win over the other. Either Robert will most likely not get to know his daughter, or Stef and Lena don't get to have Callie as their own. Right now, though, I see Robert as the only one willing to throw out ideas to keep both sides happy, while Stef and, to an extent, Lena haven't fully discussed how it'll work with Robert if they get to adopt her. It's not about Stef and Lena and taking her away from them. It's more about Callie and her brother and keeping them together. Robert hasn't said anything like she can't see him. In fact, I remember Robert, or his wife, suggesting that Jude can stay with them sometimes. And, to me, that is compromise. 

 

What matters is how Jude and Callie want this to go. Stef and Lena and Robert aren't the sole contributors. Hell, Jude even went to talk to Robert before fully giving Callie his blessing, because he wants her to be happy, just like she wants for him. But dismissing Robert as the biological father and simply giving over his rights just like that isn't right either. I don't know, I have to consider the fact that Stef and Lena have only known Callie for less than a year. Robert's known her for a few months. But Jude? Jude's known her his entire life. Neither side is making this an easy transition, obviously. Robert's not signing over his rights for understandable reasons, and Stef and Lena want to adopt Callie for understandable reasons. We know Callie wants to be with the Fosters, but she's also starting to get to know her father and it's hard to determine if they'd have this closer relationship if Sophia didn't stupidly rip up the papers, and if Robert decided to hold off on signing. I don't think, at any point, he said no to signing. He just said he wasn't ready, although please correct me if I'm wrong here. I know he said he can't sign them, but did he add the 'now' part?

 

I don't know; maybe the issue I have with this is more that neither side HAS actually discussed any sort of custody, or arrangements after Callie gets adopted. They probably expect things to work out, but it would be easier if they all discussed it and didn't do this passive aggressive shit. Hell, Stef's been investigating and blackmailing Robert from the VERY BEGINNING and Robert has been withholding his signature to let Callie live with whoever she wants to live with. I just think Stef may want to think about Callie, but I don't really think she is. Seeing as she had to get information off of Robert before even knowing him and then using that information against him in order to get what SHE wants, that's wrong. 

[gesundheit]

I don't think the Fosters have suggested a compromise or shared custody eifher, have they?

Lena touched on it at some point, but basically it got brushed off completely and never revisited.

 

Robert hasn't said anything like she can't see him. In fact, I remember Robert, or his wife, suggesting that Jude can stay with them sometimes. And, to me, that is compromise. 

Having her brother over for a sleepover sometimes isn't compromise. It's completely ignoring the significance of those siblings sharing a home. They are literally the only two people each other has always had. How could any adult who has ever given one half of one thought to their emotional development think that visits would be just as good as them continuing to share a home? Jude being a little saint and saying "Okay, I don't mind if Callie lives elsewhere if that's what she wants" doesn't change the reality of what this stability means for them. (Regardless of the fact that it's not what Callie wants.)

 

It's just driving me nuts. It's been months since shared custody even crossed anyone's mind. How is that anything but the most obvious solution? The all-or-nothing approach of both sides makes everyone look like a bit of an asshole. The contrivance of nobody even bothering to brainstorm a compromise just seems like a way to delay the story and amp up drama when it's entirely unnecessary.