S05.E16: Amster-Damn

[LotusFlower]

Because the drinking was all Kim would cop to. I imagine her kids are desperate to believe her and they don't live with her, except her son, and desperation and codependency can leave you with blinders on..

Drinking was the only drug she copped to on the show., publicly. She's been an addict her entire adult life. Her family, including her kids who live(d) with her, know it was more than alcohol. Heck, even I know it was more than alcohol, and I'm just a viewer! As one poster said, that wasn't a spilled drink she was looking for when she was crawling on the floor of her Hawaii hotel room!

[Persnickety1]

Why do you think it only applies to her drinking? I'm sure her kids have seen her falling-down drunk AND high as a kite. It's all bad, embarrassing, scary, frustrating.... Kim puts different definitions on what sober means and what a relapse means, but I doubt her kids do.

 

If I heard correctly, didn't Kim say to Yolanda "...If my kids think I'm drinking or using again..." and that they would turn their back on her or however she phrased it.  

 

I agree with you.  I think her kids are painfully well aware that alcohol isn't their mother's only drug of choice.  

Drinking was the only drug she copped to on the show., publicly. She's been an addict her entire adult life. Her family, including her kids who live(d) with her, know it was more than alcohol. Heck, even I know it was more than alcohol, and I'm just a viewer! As one poster said, that wasn't a spilled drink she was looking for when she was crawling on the floor of her Hawaii hotel room!

 

That wasn't in Hawaii.

 

That was after they returned.  Kim and Ken had gotten a hotel room before the big party at SUR.

 

The one where Kim locked herself in the SUR bathroom (after having inappropriate discussions with anyone she could corner) and was doing whatever she was doing and refused to come out.

 

And Ken oddly told her to put whatever she was scrounging around for down and to not put it in her purse.

 

Damn, I wish that camera would have gone in for a closeup of whatever she was palming in her grubby little mitt.  

Edited March 4, 2015 by Persnickety1

[grittypearl]

BRAVO needs to start doing better research before they send HW on overseas trips.  They should be sending them to places where street combat is considered normal, everyday behavior. 

 

 

Actually, the Netherlands is home to a lot of the most skilled mixed-martial artists on the planet. What I would give to have LisaR rear-naked choke Kimmy! LOL!

[sistermagpie]

Kyle is more concerned with how she comes off, she needs the fan support and if she had defended Kim right that at the moment with LisaR then people would have put her squarely in Kim's camp. She wants to be liked, even if it means separating herself from giving her sister the support she so desperately needs.

 

 

I don't think Kim desperately needed Kyle jumping up and defending her by telling everyone she was sober. Kyle's defended Kim plenty of times on camera. Sometimes she doesn't think deserves defending. Kim's always dangling some idea of the support Kyle's supposed to be giving her, which is ever-changing and never enough.

[LotusFlower]

If I heard correctly, didn't Kim say to Yolanda "...If my kids think I'm drinking or using again..." and that they would turn their back on her or however she phrased it.

You're right - she did say that. Drinking or using.

But I agree with what zoeysmom just wrote - Kim just overstated the kid angle to manipulate the conversation and stop whatever direction Yo was going in. It's a fake threat.

That wasn't in Hawaii.

That was after they returned. Kim and Ken had gotten a hotel room before the big party at SUR.

You're right again! Hard to keep track. For a second, I even hesitated and thought maybe it was the Paris trip when she was slurring her words and acting all wonky.

Edited March 4, 2015 by LotusFlower

[Mozelle]

There was a 'tell' about Kyle that I noticed in the scene where they were all sitting in the hotel lobby waiting for Kim and Kyle to show up so they could all go to the pot shop. Kyle strolls in looking like she just stepped out of photo shoot, hair, clothes, makeup and accessories were all impeccably put together.

 

Everyone stands up ready to go as she approaches. Kim stands there and asks "where's Kim, she coming?" Lisa Rinna says "mm-mm". Kyle looks surprised and says "Kim's not coming?"  Lisa V says  "She's not coming. Well, I don't think she's gonna go to the pot shop, is she?" There was a pause in which Kyle stands there in wide-eyed dismay then a light bulb goes off inside her head where she makes the connection of Kim's addiction and pot and says "Oh". Kyle in her solo dialog shot says "It's best that Kim isn't coming. Kim and I are not even looking at each other may not be the most mature route to go but anything more than this is going to lead to disaster."

 

This was a huge revelation about Kyle in my opinion. Kim's sobriety was the furthest thing from her mind. She never gave a single thought to how going to a pot shop might be uncomfortable, unpleasant and maybe even dangerous for her sister who has been fighting for sobriety for 3 years. Kyle thought that it was best that Kim not accompany them to the pot shop only because it would have been uncomfortable for her because they were not even looking at each other. Kim's sobriety was the last thing that concerned Kyle.

 

There's some name mixing up happening above, but to speak to larger point, Kim has been going on about how fine she is and how great she's doing in her sobriety. When they went to the spa and (accidental) wine tasting, Kim insisted that she was fine. It stands to reason that perhaps Kyle thought Kim would be OK going to this pastry shop and not partaking. The other explanation could be that Kim did, in fact, say that she would go but begged off without letting anyone know that she changed her mind. You're drawing connections about Kyle's "Oh," meaning that she reluctantly connected the pot shop to Kim's sobriety. It could have been an "Oh" about anything else. 

 

The specific point about what Kyle said in her TH: We don't know if Kyle's statement was specifically about Kim not going to this pot shop in Amsterdam or if it was about something that happened back in Beverly Hills.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Mozelle

[mytmo]

Actually, the Netherlands is home to a lot of the most skilled mixed-martial artists on the planet. What I would give to have LisaR rear-naked choke Kimmy! LOL!

 

 

Actually I was hoping for more of a Darth Vader mind choke hold.

[zoeysmom]

There have been lots of scenes like that over the years. I noticed it on Poker Night when Kim confided she had taken a pill, and Kyle didn't even seem cognizant that it meant Kim had relapsed. She talked about the positive of Kim not hiding that from her, but it was Brandi of all people who outed Kim's pain pill relapse in a TH, not Kyle. For someone who has had an addict sister her entire adult life, you would think she gets the drill and notices the behavioral changes, but instead she always seems surprised and asks "what's wrong with you?" She doesn't seem to have the awareness or resignation of a long-term sufferer that I've seen in others in her place. I think the reasons are this: 1) she's not that sharp; and 2) she doesn't want to know. She was raised to ignore it and not ask questions. Stay in denial. She needs Al-Anon so badly.

We see what happens if Kyle questions or doesn't spew Kim's BS three year sobriety chat-Kim goes after her.  I think Kyle learned a long time ago to do the Sgt. Schultz-"I see nothing."   Kim always has an excuse for her pill taking and when Kyle doesn't hover over her it becomes -let me approach Kyle during one of her parties and tell her how close to death she was. . . .dramatic pause.  Of course Kyle is going to get weird and croaky and cry.  If Kyle has availed herself to AlAnon it is pretty much out the window during filming as Kyle is forced to be around Kim sober or not and she is limited as to what self-saving methods she can employ.  By the sound of things Kyle and Kim have not seen each other since October.

 

Kyle has been upfront saying it is Kim's story to tell.  Last night for the first time I actually heard Kyle tell Kim she was indefensible.  It seemed with Kim taking a time out-Brandi decided it was her place to go after Kyle.  I just didn't see the hypocrisy-it reminded me of last season when Kim went into the bathroom and had her ass exposed and Lisa shut the door-Kim came after her for excluding her.  Of course this outrage of Kim's occurred when Yolanda had deviated from the team's path of attacking Kyle and gone to comfort her.  Kim needed to make it about her and Lisa.

 

Kyle choosing not to partake was no big deal-at least she was thinking of her kids compared to Brandi who was making a strategic decision to be able to claim sobriety when she made the next attack on Kyle and the rest. 

[SwordQueen]

You're right - she did say that. Drinking or using.

But I agree with what zoeysmom just wrote - Kim just overstated the kid angle to manipulate the conversation and stop whatever direction Yo was going in. It's a fake threat.

 

Well, it worked for BFF Brandi, right?  The HW decided not to mention The Tampon on camera because of Brandi's kids.   So, Kim should get a pass too, because you know, they are both single, struggling mothers over 40.  Oh, the tears of a clown.

[msblossom]

I think Kim overstated what her kids would do if she relapsed.  You are correct she lives in denial. She lives in a state of relapse and she or Monty don't seem smooth enough to cover up Kim's pill usage.  Kim's kids will be there for her just as Kathy and Kyle were there for here when Kim made the decision after Season 2 to go into rehab.    I see Kim's comments as poor acting, her adult children's reactions were never about the rumors it is about her lack of sobriety.  Kim brought it to them on small screen big time and still mdenied it.  Kim acts as if people are talking about her son being the next Norman Bates-when all people really say is she is a mean bitch.  No one cares about her kids' lives.

 

The irony is Lisa has never started rumors about Kim not being sober Lisa, Eileen, Kyle et al lived a special night of Kim's brand of lack of control due to substances.  What was her excuse for last night's dinner behavior?  I have never seen a group of people that feel so flipping entitled to direct and control the conversation.  Brandi and Kim being the worst.  Brandi and Kim aren't happy unless someone is outing someone or someone is getting hurt.

I agree 100% with your post.

[LotusFlower]

We see what happens if Kyle questions or doesn't spew Kim's BS three year sobriety chat-Kim goes after her.  I think Kyle learned a long time ago to do the Sgt. Schultz-"I see nothing."   Kim always has an excuse for her pill taking and when Kyle doesn't hover over her it becomes -let me approach Kyle during one of her parties and tell her how close to death she was. . . .dramatic pause.  Of course Kyle is going to get weird and croaky and cry.  If Kyle has availed herself to AlAnon it is pretty much out the window during filming as Kyle is forced to be around Kim sober or not and she is limited as to what self-saving methods she can employ.  By the sound of things Kyle and Kim have not seen each other since October.

Re: Al-Anon - I agree Kyle's in a predicament because of the show. But I think she has to decide what's most important to her. If her emotional health is most important, then she'll get counseling, show be damned. Or maybe give the show an ultimatum, or tell them they can re-cast Kim, but she'll need to keep her distance. She has options.

As for all those times when Kim gives Kyle some dramatic, near-death story - she should just roll her eyes and tell her she's not buying the "water pill" or "cracked rib" excuses anymore. Kim can't make her cry if she learns how to stop enabling.

[Persnickety1]

You're right - she did say that. Drinking or using.

But I agree with what zoeysmom just wrote - Kim just overstated the kid angle to manipulate the conversation and stop whatever direction Yo was going in. It's a fake threat.

 

 

I'm sort of hoping maybe her kids did give her a bottom line ultimatum.  

 

Not that it matters if they did or not, because, as we saw for ourselves, she clearly made the choice to start back up at least some degree.

 

 

You're right again! Hard to keep track. For a second, I even hesitated and thought maybe it was the Paris trip when she was slurring her words and acting all wonky.

 

Hey, totally understandable.  

 

When the vile bitch has so many instances of whacked out behavior over so many seasons, it almost requires a Power Point presentation to keep them all straight.  

 

After this Amster-Damn debacle, I can't wait for the reunion.  

Edited March 4, 2015 by Persnickety1

[Avaleigh]

THIS! A MILLION TIMES! It ain't rocket science. You don't keep messing with a hot mess unless you like the drama that it brings and being that she's trying to stick a spot on the show I feel that if she wants to go there for a storyline then she's gonna have to take what she takes in return. She wants to take risks like that and think it's not gonna bite her in the ass. Hey, it's said over and over that Kim can't control her storyline, she's shown her ass and so everything is game. I also don't like this whole if the women aren't bringing it up on camera then it's off limits for the other women to say. I mean I get it I really do but really? Rules for a reality show? Nah, not gonna happen.

 

I don't see how there's levels of morals? So if someone slips up and it's caught on camera then hey the other women can have at it with no regard for the bigger picture cause hey it's been left in the open so it's cool to pick the bones but if the others don't bring something to the forefront with their behavior or by officially mentioning it then it should be sidestepped, avoided and  a conscious effort needs to be made by everyone all season to stick with the script? It's a reality show. Plus I don't get how there are rules because "it's not right to...." but regardless if something is caught on camera it's still not right to:

 

--Insert yourself into someone else's personal business. I for one don't go around poking into my coworkers private life because being around her a couple of times made me uncomfortable and uneasy. I either hope it doesn't happen again and if I fear it will then I will have to figure out what I need to do to about future interations cause I'm not going to count on the "crazy" person to curb their behavior. That makes no damn sense to me.

 

--Call someone an addict over and over and over while speaking to other people without the person being present or attempting to have a private conversation with the person you seemed so set on trying to understand. Again makes no damn sense to me.

 

--Bring it up, speak your piece and because you weren't happy with how it was received continue chewing on that bone.

 

--Again discuss while crying addict, addict, addict and putting more life into the whole subject matter and associate aftershock confrontations with her addictions instead of the petty shit it had more to do with.

 

--Pretend not to understand how someone may not want to discuss something so sensitive in front of the other women and continue to encourage public confrontations.

 

--Continue to discuss a subject that just hours before was the cause of an unpleasant exchange and was also pretty well covered and filed away in the "not tryna talk about it" file.

 

--Ignoring another persons wishes to not bring up such a sensitive subject once the person has expressed they want it put to bed which they have every right to do since the subject has been beat to death anyway.

 

-Go for someone's throat

 

-Throw and smash a wine glass at someone

 

I can't give LisaR a pass because it's her decisions to continue provoking the issue that caused that exchange. People go below the belt when they reach a level of desperation and aggravation and considering the subject matter I'm not surprised that Kim came out swinging. I have a position on Kim so I won't drone on but in this episode take out the whole supposed "below the belt remarks" (I mean come on LisaR has been screaming addict for the last 100 episodes, just because it's not a secret doesn't mean she's got to lead with that all the time. I got a friend who used to be a hooker and I don't go around saying she's a hooker, she's a hooker when I'm talking about her it's the truth but at this point Lisa R should just stop calling her Kim and just start using "The addict"). But take away that and what you have is LisaR again rolling it back around to Kim. Why can't she just let it go? That's just rude.

 

There's a lot of episodes where Kim isn't provoking shit but because it's Kim it was wrong and "provoking" to invite Brandi even though I pretty much got the genuine vibe with her idea to break the ice and she walked in and right away explained it to Kyle so there was no misunderstanding as to why she brought Brandi. Kim was sitting at that table just ready to proceed with the night and here we go again about addiction. I honestly thought it was in bad taste to bring it up YET AGAIN. Not only for Kim for the other ladies as well. Lisa R doesn't think she's creating an awkward vibe for everyone else when she puts Kim on the spot like that? Like come on already. I would have been fed up too. You make it clear, you express your position and it's like nope, uh-uh I'm going to disregard that and continue.

 

I don't care if they don't like Kim or what Kim has done in the past or behaved in the past when you want to continue in a direction that just exasperates a situation just for shits and giggles then you're an asshole. Kim doesn't just have her episodes for shits and giggles. She has them because partly she's struggling with an addiction and she's constantly battling.  These other women... Shits and giggles. Cause they want to be heard, because they want their opinions and perspectives to be heard over others. LisaR wants her opinion to be more important than Kims desire to be more discreet about her challenges. Why is that? Because "gasp" she was stuck in a limo for what 20-30 minutes? with crazy Kim. Oh No! Get the smelling salts for LisaR poor thing. It had to take a confrontation like last night that, where Lisa R ended up the one apologizing anyway (which I loved by the way and no it didn't escape me that Kim didn't apologize not once in that whole exchange HA!) for it to finally be put to bed for the season?

 

These technicalities that get thrown around to excuse the open season that goes on regarding Kim's addiction "oh it happened on camera" "LisaR was witness to the bizarre behavior so now she can say what she wants talk about it all day long etc. etc" just makes my head spin. I mean that's NOT what people do. Most people wouldn't want to create an awkward situation when it's not necessary. Kim does it cause she took a pill or has been drunk in past seasons but these women create awkward, nasty moments all the time with no real justifications what so ever. Oh wait.. they're "concerned" oh please! Spare me!

 

I know its really hard to defend Brandi but I always see why she gets so damn unruly! It's maddening to see these women cloak the bullshit and cattiness with these declarations of concern all the while slightly veiling their true position of feeling superior.

You're basically saying that rule following isn't going to happen on a reality show and then a paragraph later the implication is that LisaR should be following the rule of not mentioning Kim's sobriety even though Kim has introduced her substance abuse issues as a storyline for this season.

 

I thought it was in bad taste of Kim to show up to Kyle's mixer high and with Brandi in tow. Kim knew she was starting something by bringing Brandi and Brandi did too. At least Brandi didn't play *completely* stupid about whether or not Kyle would be happy to see her or actually think that Kyle would "appreciate the gesture" as Kim tried to claim.

 

I disagree that the other women are addressing Kim's addiction issues for "shits and giggles". They're seeing for themselves first hand what Kim's problems are doing not only to her but to the group as a whole. There isn't anything wrong or immoral to wonder about what's going on with somebody's life to make them behave in the disgraceful way that Kim has been behaving this season. 

 

I think you are underestimating how disturbing Kim's behavior has been this season. Also, it wasn't a 20 minute car ride. When you're in a car for an hour with a person who is fucked up on drugs that becomes a night to remember especially when the person is doing things like calling you names, kicking out at you, and overall babbling as though they don't entirely understand what's going on. Add in that you know that the scene is being filmed and that becomes something that the average person would want to talk about as opposed to pretending that it didn't happen. 

 

I disagree that there's no real justification for any of the women to be concerned about Kim. To me a "normal" person would look at Kim and wonder if she needs help because clearly something is wrong. The other women know that they're going to be forced to interact with Kim so why would they ignore Kim's behavior and pretend to act like this is okay so that she can be encouraged to think that her behavior is somehow tolerable or acceptable. ETAThis only encourages her to keep from changing.

 

As far as creating an awkward situation where it wasn't necessary--that's exactly what Kim did when she refused to accept LisaR's apology! Kim was not at all being badgered about her addiction issues here. She had a perfect out and what did she choose to do? She chose to have a long speech about her sobriety and talked about the pain pill relapse on Poker Night. Kim was the one giving details about her sobriety so I don't understand why it's continually being claimed that Kim was being badgered about her addiction issues prior to her meltdown because that isn't what happened.

 

Kim's behavior is unacceptable and has been for years so I'm glad that the new women have come in to point out that it's ridiculous for her to continue to get away with this sort of crap. 

 

What's particularly frustrating about Brandi in this episode (I'm going to limit myself) is that she wants to call the other women hypocrites and whine about her kids without pausing for a moment to reflect on the fact that she's done exactly what she's accusing the other women of doing. Brandi has repeatedly shown that she doesn't give a fuck about other people's kids when it comes to making comments and accusations but she's always ready to trot hers out whenever she wants a dose of sympathy. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Avaleigh

[PreposterousISTA]

 

 

 

 

[Satchels of gold]

I really feel I need to have a Tyra style talk we Kim. "I was rooting for you! We were all rooting for you!" And boy she would rather take it to DEAFCON 5 then talk about her sobriety, huh? She was like an animal in a trap trying to gnaw off her own leg . So much for the flighty kooky persona she's been cultivating the last few years.

[zulualpha]

There's some name mixing up happening above, but to speak to larger point, Kim has been going on about how fine she is and how great she's doing in her sobriety. When they went to the spa and (accidental) wine tasting, Kim insisted that she was fine. It stands to reason that perhaps Kyle thought Kim would be OK going to this pastry shop and not partaking. The other explanation could be that Kim did, in fact, say that she would go but begged off without letting anyone know that she changed her mind. You're drawing connections about Kyle's "Oh," meaning that she reluctantly connected the pot shop to Kim's sobriety. It could have been an "Oh" about anything else. 

 

The specific point about what Kyle said in her TH: We don't know if Kyle's statement was specifically about Kim not going to this pot shop in Amsterdam or if it was about something that happened back in Beverly Hills.

Kim has never said that's she's fine in her sobriety.  At the reading at Eileen's house she stated that sometimes she feels like withdrawing to her room and holing up with the tv and that frightens her, to go to that place, inplying that that's where she could go off the wagon. At the wine tasting that her lovely sister arranged for everyone, Kim attended for a few minutes, made a joke and then stepped out.  She didn't go to the pot shop.  She's fragile and has never stated otherwise and I think that's why when people delve deeply into her business she feels the need to protect herself.  She acknowledged to Kyle the night of the poker party that she had taken a pain pill, she never tried to hide that, not for a minute.  In the car Lisar asked her if she was drinking and she said no and I believe her.  She had taken medication that she shouldn't have, it was a relapse and she has always owned it.  BTW, imo it is a huge accomplishment for an alcoholic to give up alcohol.  I've seen the struggle up close and personal in my family and it's a personal triumph when an alcoholic can stop using.  So Kim does have something to protect in her alcohol free sobriety.

[Kbilly]

I really like Lisa Rinna and she is one of the main reasons I have been watching this season but I was pretty disappointed in the choke/grabby maneuver and the glass smashing. I also think it's weird that her concern for Kim has gone from Harry's bros died from alcoholism to Harry is a recovering alcoholic to my sister died of an overdose. Was it just that she was choosing what she should reveal? Was SHE drunk when she smashed the glass? She said if she has 2 glasses of wine she's coo-coo.

 

I think the worst thing that happened was Kim going after Eileen and yelling in her face .Eileen's reaction was "EXCUSE me?" and she looked completely disgusted by her. Kim is just so low class I don't know how Eileen even handles being around these people. And why does Kim hate her sooo much? Because she showed up like a complete mess to her home on one of their first outings together or because she had the audacity to care about her health and wellbeing?

 

Was anyone else in that restaurant? Because wow what an ugly scene.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Kbilly

[FozzyBear]

Wow! Just wow!

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong.

When did Kim say that? Was it in her blog? I don't remember that.

[sistermagpie]

She acknowledged to Kyle the night of the poker party that she had taken a pain pill, she never tried to hide that, not for a minute.

 

 

No, she just keeps denying that this counts as a relapse or that she was getting high.

[PreposterousISTA]

 

 

 

[Avaleigh]

No, she just keeps denying that this counts as a relapse or that she was getting high.

Even though we've more than once seen Kim say that taking a pill would equate to having had a relapse. This idea that it doesn't count because Kim is only counting alcohol doesn't add up with what Kim has said in the past about relapsing. She's just hoping people don't remember or that she won't be called on it. Considering how softball Andy usually is with her at the reunions I think she thinks she's going to get away with it for the nth time.

 

I think the worst thing that happened was Kim going after Eileen and yelling in her face .Eileen's reaction was "EXCUSE me?" and she looked completely disgusted by here. Kim is just so low class I don't know how Eileen even handles being around these people. And why does Kim hate her sooo much? Because she showed up like a complete mess to her home on one of their first outings together or because she had the audacity to care about her health and wellbeing?

 

 

Kim's hatred for Eileen is puzzling. I don't get where it comes from and even Kim can't come up with anything when Eileen points out that she's done nothing to Kim. Kim has to criticize Eileen's appearance because she can't come up with anything better.

 

I feel like some part of Kim probably resents Eileen and LisaR because she's shown her ass to them and they haven't bought her excuses or decided to live in a false reality as Brandi says that she has to do when she's interacting with Kim. I thought that comment of Brandi's was very revealing when she said that Kim feels "safe" when people pretend to believe her stories. I know it's Brandi so we have to take it with a grain of salt but it certainly adds up with what Kim has expected from people in the past when it comes to not wanting to be questioned about her lies or inconsistencies with the stories she comes up with to cover her behavior when she's under the influence. 

[talula]

My final thought...

Lisa R now knows why "everyone is so scared of Kim Richards".

...chick is psychotic.

The clip included above shows LisaR had a change of heart about Kim.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/videos/playlist?clip=2850708

[ghoulina]

Was anyone else in that restaurant? Because wow what an ugly scene.

 

I tried to look around after and I didn't see any other patrons. Sometimes I wonder if Bravo doesn't rent out a place for the afternoon when they suspect things are going to get ugly. 

[zoeysmom]

Re: Al-Anon - I agree Kyle's in a predicament because of the show. But I think she has to decide what's most important to her. If her emotional health is most important, then she'll get counseling, show be damned. Or maybe give the show an ultimatum, or tell them they can re-cast Kim, but she'll need to keep her distance. She has options.

As for all those times when Kim gives Kyle some dramatic, near-death story - she should just roll her eyes and tell her she's not buying the "water pill" or "cracked rib" excuses anymore. Kim can't make her cry if she learns how to stop enabling.

I think the overwhelming support spearheaded by Lisa V (what a difference a couple of seasons make) Eileen, Yolanda and Lisar have done a lot to help Kyle.  For once there are three strong women (Yolanda is not that strong) who aren't afraid to say what I have seen for years-Kim is an emotional abusive person who sucks the life out of anyone who comes near her.  I don't know if it comes from her addictions, childhood, mother issues or issues with men but she is a nightmare.  I think they let Kyle it is okay to not defend the indefensible.  In the past Kyle has taken so much grief for poor, poor, pitiful Kim, I don't think the rest of the cast was ready to stand behind Kyle.  Having downgraded Yolanda she plays the far more important role as she is the facilitator in the Amsterdam episodes.  Lisav mentioning that Kyle gets grief from her family was excellent because Lisav is friends with Kathy.

 

From what I recall between Season 1 and 2 Kyle and Kim didn't speak.  Between Season 2 and 3 Kyle and Kim's relationship revolved around family days at Betty Ford.  By Season 3 Kyle was still getting to know her sister, who still hadn't forgiven her and relied on Paul and Adrienne for support or was backstabbing her in Paris to Ken and Lisa.  By Season 4 Kyle and Kim seemed to be singing from the same page until Kyle and Lisa became friendly again-and Kim fell right in step with Brandi's plan to alienate her.  So this will be the first time that Kim has pretty much blown it with everyone.  Kim is jealous of her sister's life and anything she can do to upset it she will.

[Avaleigh]

I tried to look around after and I didn't see any other patrons. Sometimes I wonder if Bravo doesn't rent out a place for the afternoon when they suspect things are going to get ugly. 

There were other patrons in the restaurant but it was mostly empty. When Kim was shouting at Kyle after the glass throw there are some people that are visible. IIRC they didn't even seem that phased by the loud Americans thankfully.

[Persnickety1]

 

 

 

 

Thank you for these.

 

You have my undying love and gratitude.  

[Persnickety1]

 

 

 

 

Oh, and for these as well!!!!!

 

*heart*

[charmed1]

I thought I saw a guy with light brown hair sitting behind them at a table. Maybe that was someone with production.

[TattleTeeny]

I tried to look around after and I didn't see any other patrons. Sometimes I wonder if Bravo doesn't rent out a place for the afternoon when they suspect things are going to get ugly. 

There were some people in the back toward the left of the screen. I couldn't tell if they were scandalized or anything though. I myself would probably be somewhat delighted, I confess.

[SwordQueen]

You're basically saying that rule following isn't going to happen on a reality show and then a paragraph later the implication is that LisaR should be following the rule of not mentioning Kim's sobriety even though Kim has introduced her substance abuse issues as a storyline for this season.

 

I thought it was in bad taste of Kim to show up to Kyle's mixer high and with Brandi in tow. Kim knew she was starting something by bringing Brandi and Brandi did too. At least Brandi didn't play *completely* stupid about whether or not Kyle would be happy to see her or actually think that Kyle would "appreciate the gesture" as Kim tried to claim.

 

I disagree that the other women are addressing Kim's addiction issues for "shits and giggles". They're seeing for themselves first hand what Kim's problems are doing not only to her but to the group as a whole. There isn't anything wrong or immoral to wonder about what's going on with somebody's life to make them behave in the disgraceful way that Kim has been behaving this season. 

 

I think you are underestimating how disturbing Kim's behavior has been this season. Also, it wasn't a 20 minute car ride. When you're in a car for an hour with a person who is fucked up on drugs that becomes a night to remember especially when the person is doing things like calling you names, kicking out at you, and overall babbling as though they don't entirely understand what's going on. Add in that you know that the scene is being filmed and that becomes something that the average person would want to talk about as opposed to pretending that it didn't happen. 

 

I disagree that there's no real justification for any of the women to be concerned about Kim. To me a "normal" person would look at Kim and wonder if she needs help because clearly something is wrong. The other women know that they're going to be forced to interact with Kim so why would they ignore Kim's behavior and pretend to act like this is okay so that she can be encouraged to think that her behavior is somehow tolerable or acceptable. ETAThis only encourages her to keep from changing.

 

As far as creating an awkward situation where it wasn't necessary--that's exactly what Kim did when she refused to accept LisaR's apology! Kim was not at all being badgered about her addiction issues here. She had a perfect out and what did she choose to do? She chose to have a long speech about her sobriety and talked about the pain pill relapse on Poker Night. Kim was the one giving details about her sobriety so I don't understand why it's continually being claimed that Kim was being badgered about her addiction issues prior to her meltdown because that isn't what happened.

 

Kim's behavior is unacceptable and has been for years so I'm glad that the new women have come in to point out that it's ridiculous for her to continue to get away with this sort of crap. 

 

What's particularly frustrating about Brandi in this episode (I'm going to limit myself) is that she wants to call the other women hypocrites and whine about her kids without pausing for a moment to reflect on the fact that she's done exactly what she's accusing the other women of doing. Brandi has repeatedly shown that she doesn't give a fuck about other people's kids when it comes to making comments and accusations but she's always ready to trot hers out whenever she wants a dose of sympathy. 

 

I agree with all of this.  And it is scary being around someone who is out of control because of being drunk, high or having a psychotic break.  I've been in situations where I've been the target of such abuse and then also a witness to it.  I've witnessed someone getting stabbed by another person who was one or more of the above.  I can totally relate to the shock the Lisa and Eileen have shown at Kim's behavior. 

 

And to make a bunch of generalizations, her behavior also seems out of place for where she lives and the outward BH society lifestyle she is surrounded by, which makes it all that much more noticeable and unacceptable.  Let's face it, without the money, family and connections she has, Kim could very well be just another addict on the street.  She's just lucky enough to have money and a family that cleans up after her.  But she lives in a place where there are certain social rules and she continuously breaks them.  If she were somewhere else, she'd either blend right in, be ignored, or someone would have knocked her teeth out by now because she got in someone's face. 

 

But these other HW are not like that (save Brandi and we know Brandi is all talk).  They are shocked but concerned.  This isn't how people outwardly behave in their circle.  So to that, I get how they feel that they can't just pretend it's not there when it's right in their faces and their means of dealing with it involve talking it out -- with that person and others.  Kim is not unusual in having an addiction problem (tons of celebs have issues) but she's not staying at home and hiding it.  That's where it becomes other people's business; Kim is laying it at their feet. 

 

Now, I wouldn't have kept going at it like Lisa R has, but then we know why she did that when she told the HW and all of us how addiction is a huge trigger for her and she flipped out about it.  Everyone reacts to things based on their own background and experiences, which isn't always the most helpful in any particular situation.  Both Brandi's and Kim's behaviors on this show are unacceptable to me, but I'd have handled them differently than the HW have, right or wrong.    

Edited March 4, 2015 by SwordQueen

[Avaleigh]

I'm sure there are loud people in the Netherlands too.

I'm sure there are. My comment was in response to several posts in this thread specifically mentioning the loud American stereotype.

[SoCal4Us]

There were other patrons in the restaurant but it was mostly empty. When Kim was shouting at Kyle after the glass throw there are some people that are visible. IIRC they didn't even seem that phased by the loud Americans thankfully.

 

I wonder if they were extras just so it would seem like someone was in the restaurant?

 

ETA charmed1 beat me to it...you gotta be a speed reader to keep up with this thread lol!

Edited March 4, 2015 by SoCal4Us

[Sincerely Yours]

  She said to Kim, "that's why I was hard on you," or something like that and Kim said, "yes, you were hard on me, you did get in my face."  Then Lisa R said something else.  Now, Kim was inappropriate with what she said to Lisa R, and then, because Lisa R didn't get the response she wanted, she went in on Kim and Kim went coo coo bananas, then Eileen said something and Kim shot back at her and suddenly she turned on Eileen.  

 

 

 

So Lisa R AGAIN finds a way to bring up Kim's. And I think what stands out the most about your post (and I would bold it but the last few times I tried my computer went coo coo for cocoa cocoa puffs) is "because Lisa R didn't get the response she wanted..." I think my problem with all of this is that these women aren't that mature either or proper in their parts of it. Lisa isn't getting the response she wants. Um okay, too bad so sad. Lisa R didn't like the blah blah blah response she got from Kim. She wasn't satisfied with how the conversation ended with Kim on the plane, how her talks with Kyle produced no real results meaning Kyle didn't really get into the meat and potatoes... It's like Lisa R wants to have the reigns with this whole situation and its killing her that Kim continues to be evade her attempts at getting Kim to do whatever it is she wants Kim to do. It ain't happening as we saw cause when all was said and done Lisa R was the one who ended up apologizing. I hope she is be completely honest when she says that she has finally backed off.

[jjbjjbh]

 

Socal4us: Just wondering if anyone else thought of "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" when Eileen and Lisa V arrived at the hotel?

Yes!!   The minute I saw them both that's exactly who I thought of. Also, What's with those big floppy hats in Amsterdam? 

 

 

Humblepi: From what I observe, Kyle is 'there for Kim' when it suits her, but she's very reticent to defend Kim when she's in front of the camera or out in public with the other women. Kyle is more concerned with how she comes off, she needs the fan support and if she had defended Kim right that at the moment with LisaR then people would have put her squarely in Kim's camp. She wants to be liked, even if it means separating herself from giving her sister the support she so desperately needs.

Yes. Yes. and Yes to the above.

Kyle is as manipulative as any of the other HWs. She is enjoying all the post-glassgate sympathy that seems to be coming her way. At the expense of her sister.

It appears she is one way with Kim in private, being all nice and sisterly,  and portrays herself a whole different person for the show. Which could probably be another reason Kim is upset with her.

Kyle and Kim being sisters with a turbulent history and also being co-workers is an utterly messed up dynamic. They are REAL at times, not REAL at others, there is so much else going on with the two sisters off camera, which at times percolates into the show. It is just not healthy for BOTH of them to be on the show at the same time. Add to the fact most of the other HWs are Kyle's friends. Of course they are going to be more sympathetic to Kyle. Kim is NEVER going to get the benefit of any doubt with these women. Who knows what sort of things Kyle shares witht he others about Kim. Best for Kim to leave the show. Coz we know Kyle won't. 

From my perspective, a recovering alcoholic/drug addict needs to be 100% confident of the loyalty of whoever their support system is. I find Kyle's behavior very strange..... she WANTS/HAS to be part of Kim's support system, yet the first chance she gets, she runs to whichever HW friend is nearest, talking about Kim and pouring out her (Kyle's) sob story accompanied by buckets of tears, of course, as to how difficult it is, blah blah blah. Of course it is difficult, Kyle. You have got to choose between your sister or the HWs. You are incapable of the balancing act.

 

Kyle, if you are indeed going to be one of the go-to people for your sister, Kim,  understand that she needs your TOTAL commitment. None of those  snide THs vis a vis Kim always having an undertone of cattiness and sarcasm. HUH? I rarely hear her  speaking lovingly ABOUT her sister.

And Kim, for your sake, you need to drop Kyle. She doesn't have what it takes to be your support. FIRE KYLE from the support system. You need someone who desires your well-being more than she wants to be "in" with the HWs. You are much better off without her half-hearted help and divided loyalties. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by jjbjjbh

[Sincerely Yours]

Then she needs to stop getting high during filming or she will face questions about her "sobriety" again. Kim made her sobriety THE storyline of the season, no one else did that other than Kim. She got high, on more than 1 occasion/episode, and she put it out there to be discussed by her own actions.

Kim was high in those scenes filmed at her house with Brandi/Kyle and then again at the mixer. Just because she did not scream/act out like she did poker night does not make her any less high/under the influence.

I don't agree she was and regardless these women are using ONE incident as their need to push forward. It's overkill and I don't think its justifiable.

[Kbilly]

I'm sure there are loud people in the Netherlands too.

 

Well it's more than just being American, if this happened at the table next to me anywhere in the world I would be mortified. This show has turned me into such a pearl-clutcher! I am constantly appalled by their inappropriate behavior in the wild and in front of poor innocent family members like Eileen's husband or Yolanda's bro. 

 

PS anyone else notice Rinna latched on to him while they were walking the streets? ooooooh

[sistermagpie]

Kyle, if you are indeed going to be one of the go-to people for your sister, Kim,  understand that she needs your TOTAL commitment.

 

 

What's total commitment supposed to look like? I think even Kyle's flawed style is closer to what a professional would suggest than what Kim considers her due. 

[Sincerely Yours]

But your question was answered, and then you put a revisionist take on the events - Kim was calm at the dinner? Really?

When she started out yes. Outside of poker night where she was the one that set things in motion the other gatherings were awkward, intense, etc. etc. not because Kim blazed into the scene coked out of her mind and causing chaos. This whole season has been the TOPIC coming out and causing the volatile escalations AND I'll go as far as saying that some of the bullshit that cause escalation of words and hands etc etc was actually petty, catty crap and not about addiction at all. Basically it's more about "hey Kim your baggage is a downer that causes everyone to lose their cool can you give us something signed in blood that says your vibe, your history and your family dysfunction won't derail the next ladies luncheon and promise you won't be high, get high, look high, seem high, talk high, be mad, be vague, be defensive, etc. etc.?"  I bet the fine print would read "must make chicken salad and coo at turtles at least once during the season". Kaaayyy thanks.

[zoeysmom]

Yes!!   The minute I saw them both that's exactly who I thought of. Also, What's with those big floppy hats in Amsterdam? 

 

Yes. Yes. and Yes to the above.

Kyle is as manipulative as any of the other HWs. She is enjoying all the post-glassgate sympathy that seems to be coming her way. At the expense of her sister.

It appears she is one way with Kim in private, being all nice and sisterly,  and portrays herself a whole different person for the show. Which could probably be another reason Kim is upset with her.

Kyle and Kim being sisters with a turbulent history and also being co-workers is an utterly messed up dynamic. They are REAL at times, not REAL at others, there is so much else going on with the two sisters off camera, which at times percolates into the show. It is just not healthy for BOTH of them to be on the show at the same time. Add to the fact most of the other HWs are Kyle's friends. Of course they are going to be more sympathetic to Kyle. Kim is NEVER going to get the benefit of any doubt with these women. Who knows what sort of things Kyle shares witht he others about Kim. Best for Kim to leave the show. Coz we know Kyle won't. 

From my perspective, a recovering alcoholic/drug addict needs to be 100% confident of the loyalty of whoever their support system is. I find Kyle's behavior very strange..... she WANTS/HAS to be part of Kim's support system, yet the first chance she gets, she runs to whichever HW friend is nearest, talking about Kim and pouring out her (Kyle's) sob story accompanied by buckets of tears, of course, as to how difficult it is, blah blah blah. Of course it is difficult, Kyle. You have got to choose between your sister or the HWs. You are incapable of the balancing act.

 

Kyle, if you are indeed going to be one of the go-to people for your sister, Kim,  understand that she needs your TOTAL commitment. None of those  snide THs vis a vis Kim always having an undertone of cattiness and sarcasm. HUH? I rarely hear her  speaking lovingly ABOUT her sister.

And Kim, for your sake, you need to drop Kyle. She doesn't have what it takes to be your support. FIRE KYLE from the support system. You need someone who desires your well-being more than she wants to be "in" with the HWs. You are much better off without her half-hearted help and divided loyalties. 

I bet this suggestion would make Kyle, Mauricio and family the happiest people on the planet.  Please Kim fire Kyle as your support person and don't worry about filming with her next season I see a long future for Kim and Brandi doing absolutely nothing interesting. 

I just know there are truckloads of people out there that want to be totally and absolutely devoted to Kim over their own self worth, family, friends and co-workers.  Kim needs to sign them up quick!!! Those that don't make the first cut could be there for Chad.

[WireWrap]

I don't agree she was and regardless these women are using ONE incident as their need to push forward. It's overkill and I don't think its justifiable.

But it was not just "ONE incident" and that is important to realize IMO. Lisa R said that Kim was high during that fight at the mixer, Eileen agreed, so they did notice her "behavior" was not normal that night as well. And needless to say, Kim getting high in camera is on her and she is the one that made her sobriety, or in reality her LACK of sobriety a show topic for all the HWs and for us. Was she high in Amsterdam? I think she was in desperate need of a "pill" or a "drink" that night, she was itching for a fix in a bad way IMO.

[announcergirl]

You know what I find funny? Kyle was going to let Lisar beat her sister up- she ran. Bwaaaaaahh!

[howivesforever]

You know what I find funny? Kyle was going to let Lisar beat her sister up- she ran. Bwaaaaaahh!

Hilarious... I am supposed to be working, but I literally laughed out loud...

[talula]

There was a 'tell' about Kyle that I noticed in the scene where they were all sitting in the hotel lobby waiting for Kim and Kyle to show up so they could all go to the pot shop. Kyle strolls in looking like she just stepped out of photo shoot, hair, clothes, makeup and accessories were all impeccably put together.

 

Everyone stands up ready to go as she approaches. Kim stands there and asks "where's Kim, she coming?" Lisa Rinna says "mm-mm". Kyle looks surprised and says "Kim's not coming?"  Lisa V says  "She's not coming. Well, I don't think she's gonna go to the pot shop, is she?" There was a pause in which Kyle stands there in wide-eyed dismay then a light bulb goes off inside her head where she makes the connection of Kim's addiction and pot and says "Oh". Kyle in her solo dialog shot says "It's best that Kim isn't coming. Kim and I are not even looking at each other may not be the most mature route to go but anything more than this is going to lead to disaster."

 

This was a huge revelation about Kyle in my opinion. Kim's sobriety was the furthest thing from her mind. She never gave a single thought to how going to a pot shop might be uncomfortable, unpleasant and maybe even dangerous for her sister who has been fighting for sobriety for 3 years. Kyle thought that it was best that Kim not accompany them to the pot shop only because it would have been uncomfortable for her because they were not even looking at each other. Kim's sobriety was the last thing that concerned Kyle.

 

I'm really disliking Kyle more and more. Saying that, I am sympathizing with Kim more and more, although I in no way condone the erratic behavior and anger she's projecting to everyone around her.

 

As far as the 'makeup' between Lisa Rinna and Kim, I felt that under normal circumstance, they would have never had contact with each other again. Lisa even told Kyle that she will never speak to or have anything to do with Kim ever again. Then in the next scene she and Kim are sitting down calmly discussing the incident and suddenly it's all good, they're congenial once again. I know that they have a contract and it wouldn't be in their best interest to be in violation of that Bravo contract and that's the only reason those two women came face to face to smooth things out.

Ditto on everything! Excellent post from beginning to end! Thank you.

[SwordQueen]

What's total commitment supposed to look like? I think even Kyle's flawed style is closer to what a professional would suggest than what Kim considers her due. 

 

Exactly.  Because having to be 100% committed to and 100% responsible for someone else's life sounds soooo healthy.  lol   All or nothing/black and white thinking isn't helpful for someone in recovery.   

[copacabana]

Being driven to google up why the Dutch are so tall the best part of this chapter.  Learn something new every day.  I had NO idea.  

 

Bring on The Slap!

[kassa]

Lisa's "secret" re: Harry is that there is no secret. Kim was just in attack mode, and used Lisa R's statements re: Harry's brothers and Harry's decision to abstain from drinking alcohol to imply something sinister.

 

I'm not so sure about that.  And I'm not going to speculate, but I think whatever it was, Kim said it aloud or intimated enough that they all understood what she was ready to say on camera and that's why the other women were so completely on LisaR's side.

 

People on this show have accused each other’s husbands of cheating plenty of times – whatever it is/was is bad enough that it trumped Lisa completely blowing her stack and getting violent, a violence that the other women seemed to dismiss as completely justified.  One after another, they talked about how "despicable" and "disgusting" Kim’s behavior was... people didn’t get that heated over the surrogacy reveal!  Sure, they were appalled, but this time they really seemed horrified... and not at Lisa's overt behavior, but at what was said/implied. 

 

To clarify, I don't even know if whatever she said/hinted at is even true, or she made something horrible up and just said it.  But it had an impact on every woman sitting at that table.  

 

Where the hell is Kathy Hilton??  Where is she!  Why must Kyle do it all especially when it comes to Kim??  And since Kim/Kathy are the closest Kathy should be the main watching over Kim's "sobriety."

 

 

Screw Kim – Kathy can’t even keep her own children out of jail.  Kyle needs to transition her primary allegiance to the family she has with Mauricio.  She can love her sisters without feeling like she’s responsible for anything more than wishing them well in life. 

 

As for the rest of them – every time Kim shows up fucked up, ask “so... this what you’re like sober?” 

 

That whole scene with Brandi on the street was her desperate realization that she’s the odd man out.  If your only ally is Kim, and everybody else has fully embraced the new girls... your days may be numbered.  Your only shot at relevance is to bring the drama, even when it’s not organic. 

 

But she’s not stupid. There are only so many times you can go to that well.  She came into the season hoping she and Kim would have a new alliance – heck, she might even pull Lisa V back, or recruit one of the new girls.  Or the new ones would be a bust like the last two and she and Kim and Kyle and Lisa would still be the framework for future seasons.  Seeing everybody rally around Kyle and Lisa drove home that she’s not in the middle of the pack any more.  Lisa and Eileen have resources to bring to the show that Brandi can’t compete with.  Brandi’s already used everything she’s got.

Edited March 4, 2015 by kassa

[PreposterousISTA]

Hoofddeksel

 

The Slap

[Trooper York]

Wait is that the new series "The Slap." 

 

I think it has it's own thread. Just sayn'

[WireWrap]

Kim has never said that's she's fine in her sobriety.  At the reading at Eileen's house she stated that sometimes she feels like withdrawing to her room and holing up with the tv and that frightens her, to go to that place, inplying that that's where she could go off the wagon. At the wine tasting that her lovely sister arranged for everyone, Kim attended for a few minutes, made a joke and then stepped out.  She didn't go to the pot shop.  She's fragile and has never stated otherwise and I think that's why when people delve deeply into her business she feels the need to protect herself.  She acknowledged to Kyle the night of the poker party that she had taken a pain pill, she never tried to hide that, not for a minute.  In the car Lisar asked her if she was drinking and she said no and I believe her.  She had taken medication that she shouldn't have, it was a relapse and she has always owned it.  BTW, imo it is a huge accomplishment for an alcoholic to give up alcohol.  I've seen the struggle up close and personal in my family and it's a personal triumph when an alcoholic can stop using.  So Kim does have something to protect in her alcohol free sobriety.

Actually, Kim has said over and over again that she is "strong in her sobriety", that she is "fine" that she "is sober" and she keeps repeating that she has "not relapsed once in 3 years"! She refuses to say that taking Monty's pain pill that was meant for an adult man, someone that weighs twice what Kim does (and weight/size is a huge factor in these types of pain meds dosages) was a "relapse" In fact, she says that it was in fact NOT a relapse.

 

 

The clip included above shows LisaR had a change of heart about Kim.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/videos/playlist?clip=2850708

No where does Lisa R say that she has had a change of heart toward Kim, in fact she says the opposite. What she does say that she learned that trying to talk to Kim about her addictions makes Kim got for the throat of whoever is talking. LOL

[talula]

From what I observe, Kyle is 'there for Kim' when it suits her, but she's very reticent to defend Kim when she's in front of the camera or out in public with the other women. Kyle is more concerned with how she comes off, she needs the fan support and if she had defended Kim right that at the moment with LisaR then people would have put her squarely in Kim's camp. She wants to be liked, even if it means separating herself from giving her sister the support she so desperately needs.

Your posts reminds me of another incident that Kim had a flashback to, on poker night when in the bathroom with Kyle:

Remember game night in the bathroom 3-years ago...Kim tells Kyle she hasn't slept or eaten for 7-days, has panic attacks, heart is leaping out of her skin, she's loosing balance, having eyesight, hearing problems. While Kim is fumbling for something in her bag...Kyle says, "You look good...lets go. You're taking too long and it looks rude."

It appears you are correct Kyle puts the way the sisters look on TV as more important than her sister's health concerns. Kyle seems to be a stickler for not wanting to look "rude."