S05.E16: Amster-Damn

[film noire]

 

Sad how our resolve gets smaller and smaller generation after generation and it's more acceptable for complete self preservation as opposed to way back in the day where family would endure anything and everything to make sure everyone gets through life as best as they can.

 

Great Kazu's excellent post says it all (eta: and SistaLadybug nails it down), but I will add this, respectfully -- thank god we don't endure anymore!  Thank god that over the last forty years -- from studies of addiction, to Phil Donahue and Oprah and the magnificent Betty Ford (and even those ridiculous "Portrait of a Teenage Drunken Runaway Pill Popping Cheerleader Mom" cheese-fest movies) to doctors becoming more and more educated -- thank god we now understand that "enduring" actually ends up being enabling and co-dependent.

 

Based on how Kim has behaved on camera, I have no doubt that she has verbally abused her children  (at the very least, if not worse) and I hope they understand, without guilt or shame, that they deserve dignity and freedom. I hope they know that their lives are not at the mercy of a vicious addict and her untreated sick whims.   If Kim had a highly infectious and dangerous disease,  nobody would expect her kids to get infected -- and remain infected -- as a show of support, so why should we expect that with this horrible disease? Why should her children have sick lives, just because their mother repeatedly refuses to stick with the treatment for her illness? 

Edited March 6, 2015 by film noire

[quinn]

The point that is being missed is that she hasn't stumbled in, event after event after event screaming and cursing on something just because. She hasn't created volatile situations by aggressive actions this whole season. Poker night was the only time she was rude, aggressive and making a scene from the BEGINNING. After poker night the only behavior that was annoying that was all her without being provoked was that scavenger hunt where she was being bitchy and she wasn't the only one and the airport where again she was being bitchy which I didn't find the need for anyone to have the vapors. Roll their eyes maybe, mumble "what a bitch" maybe but that's it.

This is all about her past and the POTENTIAL for her to become a problem. This is all about trying to nip it in the but before it reaches the level of past seasons Kim. It's all about what everyone FEARS and doesn't want to happen not about what has happened. It's turned into a haze of blaming Kim this season but what they aren't doing is seeing EACH incident for what it really was, how it really went down, why what was said was said, the really bad timing the worst forums and approach, inappropriate players and the such. It's all a series of ill timed, badly worded, lightly veiled animosity all rolled up in this ludicrous We're Scared for Kim burrito. It's not dealt with logically or sensibly it's handled with emotion and dealing with someone in Kim's position emotionally is the most ridiculous thing you can do. If you can't brace yourself and gather your resolve before tackling such and endeavor then you're the stupid one.

Also why can't people drop it? Do people really get held hostage like that? I mean aside from Kyle and even Brandi who are involved more than the average acquaintance. Over another person they barely know? Work with on occasion? Can't move on unless every little detail adds up and is in place? Really? That's the other convenient reasoning that doesn't jive with me. Look I'm all about the angle that they care and no one wants anything bad to happen I just don't feel like these women are actually coming from that place. I'm sure they feel that way of course but that's not what's driving their interactions with Kim. Now it's all about attacking her, holding her accountable and becoming yet another bunch of obstacles she has to deal with during her ongoing struggle. Tell you what. If I'm fed up with an addict that is somewhat incorporated in my life then that's that but I sure as hell ain't going to LOOK for any extra confrontations if I can help it and for the ones that creep up? Nearest bathroom with the case of the "runs" if that's what it boils down to. Not that hard, not that serious Kim can "get away" with whatever. I'd be all, Oh well I ain't in it. This isn't rocket science there are ways to work around. I'm sure their "obligation" to Bravo gets in the way but come on it can't be that hard minimize the interaction. Geez louise!

I can address it from either side. Reality TV and especially Housewives have made storylines / devoted the better part of a season to much smaller and pettier issues like a conversation in an airport, singing a song in a limo, not getting an invite to an event, etc., so it is totally in line with Real Housewives norms that a storyline spanning several episodes and involving several characters be rooted in a single, seemingly minor and /or isolated incident.

Moving onto the other side, I agree with you that a lot of this is about POTENTIAL but it is not POTENTIAL simply because of Poker Night.   To me, Brandi and not necessarily for nefarious reasons, was instrumental in the other Housewives' being clued in that what happened on Poker Night was not an isolated incident. Kim and her no account, unsupportive sister Kyle had already gone into cover up / mitigation mode which was undoubtedly learned at Big Kathy's Finishing School for Wayward Daughters and has been put in practice for decades.  Kyle kept her mouth shut in the limo and pled ignorance when Lisa R asked questions. Kyle did her mitigating talking head where she acknowledged the gravity of the situation but then turned it into a positive by saying that at least Kim acknowledged her slip. On Kim's part, she checked herself in the hospital for 5, 7, 9 days for treatment of a hernia, rib fracture, pneumonia, bronchitis, so forth and so on which allowed people to conclude that her behavior on Poker Night was related to her "illsnesses" or she was detoxing / getting treatment on the down low.  However, across town, Brandi was blowing up her addiction counselor BFF Jennifer's phone with "textes" to get her to come over to discuss in front of camera crew the crazy that went down at Poker Night.

Things really got thrown back into play at the Kyle's mixer. IMO Kim, Kyle and Brandi share the blame for how that fiasco turned into a fiasco, but the key thing is that it got things stirred up again. IIRC Kim was called out for being an addict and causing all kinds of heartache, but it seems like the women were more concerned about how Brandi's behavior, namely the threats and meaness, was impacting on the group than Kim's relapse. Eileen did not seem overly concerned about Kim's sobriety but she was concerned about Kim and Kyle fractured relationship. The Housewives did not start getting worked up over Kim's issues until Brandi's conversation with Lisa Rinna where terms were thrown out like "kill herself," "more than you know," and Kim's use of a patch was revealed, that's when the concern about Kim's sobriety went into overdrive with Lisa R and Eileen feeling a "moral obligation" to not ignore Kim's issues. Furthermore, Brandi had a second discussion about the gravity of Kim's situation with her addiction counselor BFF. So the concern about the Kim's situation, real and POTENTIAL, is not based solely on what happened on Poker Night.  ETA: It should also be noted that things got unsettled /stirred up by other little off-shoot events like Brandi telling Kim about her conversation with Lisa R and I suspect that Kyle told Kim about Eileen's inquiries.

 

I think that Lisa R and Eileen do / did feel a "moral obligation" towards Kim.  Yes she is a co-worker but the circumstances with Real Housewives, while not curing cancer, is not the same as noticing when you ride up on the elevator together that the co-worker who works ten cubicles has glassy eyes - these women travel together, film scenes where they share personal information to provide context for a charity project, and that is compounded by unexpected events like Bella's DUI.  I think that the "moral obligation" Lisa R and Eileen feel / felt was more sincere than not, they reached out at Eileen's house, and things also got stirred up and tensions created because of things being told by little birds and how Kim received that information which affected other things down the line like the plane trip to Calgary and the dinner in Amsterdam.  I think that it has been made abundantly clear that Kim does not want to be engaged about her sobriety whether it be a full on discussion or something more indirect and subtle, and I am hoping that Lisa R and Eileen have determined that their moral obligation regarding Kim and her sobriety has been fulfilled.

Regarding minimizing interaction with Kim, my prediction is going to be the ultimate outcome as it relates to Eileen and Lisa R's relationship with Kim which may not bode well for Kim when it comes to keeping a job that she seems to desperately want.

Edited March 6, 2015 by quinn

[Satchels of gold]

The point that is being missed is that she hasn't stumbled in, event after event after event screaming and cursing on something just because. She hasn't created volatile situations by aggressive actions this whole season. Poker night was the only time she was rude, aggressive and making a scene from the BEGINNING. After poker night the only behavior that was annoying that was all her without being provoked was that scavenger hunt where she was being bitchy and she wasn't the only one and the airport where again she was being bitchy which I didn't find the need for anyone to have the vapors. Roll their eyes maybe, mumble "what a bitch" maybe but that's it. 

 

This is all about her past and the POTENTIAL for her to become a problem. This is all about trying to nip it in the but before it reaches the level of past seasons Kim. It's all about what everyone FEARS and doesn't want to happen not about what has happened. It's turned into a haze of blaming Kim this season but what they aren't doing is seeing EACH incident for what it really was, how it really went down, why what was said was said, the really bad timing the worst forums and approach, inappropriate players and the such.  It's all a series of ill timed, badly worded, lightly veiled animosity all rolled up in this ludicrous We're Scared for Kim burrito. It's not dealt with logically or sensibly it's handled with emotion and dealing with someone in Kim's position emotionally is the most ridiculous thing you can do. If you can't brace yourself and gather your resolve before tackling such and endeavor then you're the stupid one.

 

Also why can't people drop it? Do people really get held hostage like that? I mean aside from Kyle and even Brandi who are involved more than the average acquaintance.  Over another person they barely know? Work with on occasion? Can't move on unless every little detail adds up and is in place? Really? That's the other convenient reasoning that doesn't jive with me. Look I'm all about the angle that they care and no one wants anything bad to happen I just don't feel like these women are actually coming from that place. I'm sure they feel that way of course but that's not what's driving their interactions with Kim. Now it's all about attacking her, holding her accountable and becoming yet another bunch of obstacles she has to deal with during her ongoing struggle. Tell you what. If I'm fed up with an addict that is somewhat incorporated in my life then that's that but I sure as hell ain't going to LOOK for any extra confrontations if I can help it and for the ones that creep up? Nearest bathroom with the case of the "runs" if that's what it boils down to. Not that hard, not that serious Kim can "get away" with whatever. I'd be all, Oh well I ain't in it. This isn't rocket science there are ways to work around. I'm sure their "obligation" to Bravo gets in the way but come on it can't be that hard minimize the interaction. Geez louise!

The problem initially was that Kim had a slip, this could have been an acknowledged by Kim, apologies given and back on the horse. Hell Bravo could have even used it as a story line if they desired " on the next real housewives see Kim recommit to her sobriety". The fact that she refused to verbalize that is was indeed a slip and she continues to say that she has 3 years of sobriety tells us a lot of things about Kim and the quality of her sobriety. It reveals she is not following any 12 step program or going to 12 step meetings.It also says she doesn't have a sponsor because they would have corrected that misconception immediately . As I have said before in 12 step if you have a slip the clock starts over and you are back to day one. it also shows us she is not adverse to take powerful pain pills not prescribed for her and that she is willing to lie about how she obtained those pills. ( even you even beleive that story at all, which I don't) During her grand speech about how no one has seen that in three years, I surprised her pants weren't automatically set ablaze. That is a lie and she was banking on everyone's good will and awkwardness to not correct her or she is pulling a Paula Abdul and really thinks everyone is oblivious to how high she is. In short, if Kim was sober she wouldn't have to lie about any of those things. So I can only presume she is not sober and hasn't been for awhile.

[SwordQueen]

Sad how our resolve gets smaller and smaller generation after generation and it's more acceptable for complete self preservation as opposed to way back in the day where family would endure anything and everything to make sure everyone gets through life as best as they can. It's like nah, if I stress over you I can't have my steak dinners so sorry you have to starve instead of the way it used to be where if I'm having steak and you're eating crumbs then even though Imma have to sacrifice the luxury, we BOTH will  have enough to eat. If I have to fight FOR you even when you don't then so be it. But then again I've lived a very strained life because I'm usually taken advantage of, drained and the such but I have to stay true to what I believe or else I would be even more miserable.

 

 

I think you may be idealizing the past just a tad.  It's not like humanity has been all peace, love and unity up until now.  Families are often cruel to one another -- all kinds of abuse and neglect, people abandoning their family members, people disowning their children for being gay, having children out of wedlock, religious differences, interracial/interfaith relationships, drug use, etc., etc.  I think too much "do whatever it takes" and "keep the peace" can lead to unhappiness and dysfunction and people acting either like entitled brats or like martyrs.  There's a balance somewhere, to be found,  and each person needs to find what theirs is.

 

If Kim is speaking the truth, I applaud her children for stepping up, taking action and standing their ground against a mother who is incapable of being a healthy influence in their lives.  I have no idea what they've had to go through with their parents but I am glad that they seem healthy-enough, at least in this instance, to not allow their mother's bad behavior to interfere with their lives.  Co-dependency is not healthy.  I hope Kim can get and stay clean for their sakes if she won't do it for her own. 

[Satchels of gold]

Forget to add on my previous post that when Brandi is your go to support person I assume you have driven everyone else off with your addiction. Brandi can stay as long as she abides the rule of "kim is sober until she says she isn't"

[Sincerely Yours]

I guess I separate the reality show exaggerations. The amped up drama based on the contrived situations the show puts them in to get certain results. The fact that the HW's play into it from what I can imagine the real story is. I don't doubt that Kim's put the family through it but I also don't believe that she's been the type of drain that requires complete abandonment. It's all relative of course but from what I've seen on the show I don't see her as any less redeemable as the average person. I mean just on this board tempers flare, emotions run high and opinions get very heated and it's just a message board. These encounters we see on TV are just things people do in the moment depending on subject matter, dynamic, the resentment that's present, vibe etc. etc. Do I find these displays completely outrageous? Of course but I also don't find any of it completely unbelievable considering the circumstances.  Am I surprised Kim's mad? No, she has reason to be. Am I surprised the other ladies are hesitant and put off? No, they have reason to be. Do I think Kyle's got issues because of Kim? Absolutely, because she has reason to. Am I surprised Brandi blurts shit out when she's frustrated nope the circumstances under which she dropped some of these truth bombs were pretty grueling and ridiculous. She was just reacting the way she does. This whole going against the script thing has me confused. I don't think Brandi ALWAYS thinks of the cameras. I think sometimes she's just sick of the pretense. It's a reality show that's supposed to follow them living their lives without worrying about the cameras being there.  

 

 Do I think that any of this is any more dramatic or out of control than if it were people in my life? Well on TV because of the platform it presents itself as so gauche, crazy, unimaginable but when I look at it, Each scenario and with the frame of mind like if this were me and my friends off camera living regular life would I be surprised that Kim is pissed? Would I think Lisa R had reason to smash a wine glass on the table. Would I feel as sorry for Kyle? When presented at my feet through Bravo it has the extra sting that Bravo wants to present. It perpetrates all kinds of assumptions, constants, absolutes that are easily believed because we see it week after week after week and what normally people would be able to calm down about, hash out discuss or avoid, let go what ever doesn't come to pass when filming a reality show. Things don't get squashed. Natural instincts to put something behind you or work it out quietly doesn't seem to be the MO so instead it's issue after issue after issue being played up over and over again and whatever the storyline is well that's where all the build up fuel is going to go. Then the match is struck.

 

I don't believe Kim is as far gone as the show has managed to sell. Do I think she's an alcoholic? Don't need to it's already been confirmed. My  opinion is that this season Kim has succeeded in showing herself as a struggling alcoholic with tendencies that aren't very desirable. She's shown that she doesn't like being put on the spot, that she gets awkward when prodded and will go to that desperate place that others have gone. Nothing new for most of these wives.  She's reacted to being put in unfavorable positions, no surprise   Do I think she's spiraling out of control. No, but I believe like anyone else who is fighting this battle its always a possibility. Am I going to let a bunch of women who had the bad taste to drag out an addiction storyline for half the season because Kim took a pill she wasn't supposed dictate what absolute truth is regarding Kim's sobriety or lack thereof. Nope. Am I going to see where everyone is coming from whether I like them or not sure. Will I have my opinion on intent and overall character? Yes again. But when all is said and done I don't assign any more importance to her bad behavior than I do to the average HW.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[AnnA]

I think Kim's caption should be "I'm about to lose control and I think I like it."

 

OK.  suggestions are welcome, especially good ones.  :)

 

Considering her erratic behavior, Kim is such an easy target for cartoons.

 

[Sincerely Yours]

The problem initially was that Kim had a slip, this could have been an acknowledged by Kim, apologies given and back on the horse. Hell Bravo could have even used it as a story line if they desired " on the next real housewives see Kim recommit to her sobriety". The fact that she refused to verbalize that is was indeed a slip and she continues to say that she has 3 years of sobriety tells us a lot of things about Kim and the quality of her sobriety. It reveals she is not following any 12 step program or going to 12 step meetings.It also says she doesn't have a sponsor because they would have corrected that misconception immediately . As I have said before in 12 step if you have a slip the clock starts over and you are back to day one. it also shows us she is not adverse to take powerful pain pills not prescribed for her and that she is willing to lie about how she obtained those pills. ( even you even beleive that story at all, which I don't) During her grand speech about how no one has seen that in three years, I surprised her pants weren't automatically set ablaze. That is a lie and she was banking on everyone's good will and awkwardness to not correct her or she is pulling a Paula Abdul and really thinks everyone is oblivious to how high she is. In short, if Kim was sober she wouldn't have to lie about any of those things. So I can only presume she is not sober and hasn't been for awhile.

So the lack of apology for that one incident is enough to send these women on such a crusade that would more than likely cause more harm than good and create even more outrageous incidents? The logic escapes me.

[Sincerely Yours]

Why does it have to get to the point where she's stumbling to event after event before enough is enough?  Why does Kim get to act that way continuously before she's called out?  Why is Kim so special? 

 

 

Because then you're just a hall monitor and who wants to live their lives continuously pointing out someone else's behavior? It was pointed out. It's the constant pointing out that I find ridiculous, time consuming and chaotic. Just not smart and pretty much sets the scene for more disruption. Who wants that? Oh wait, yeah, Bravo does. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[FozzyBear]

Kim just isn't a very nice person. In fact the more lucid she is the, nastier she often becomes. It's pretty hard to have a You Suck intervention. That's the real issue. Poker Night something happened at it seemed like Kim was high. That has been addressed over and over. Every other instance had just been lucid Kim being a bitch. I think she's just a bitch. I'm not sure there is much to save here. Kim is a bitch and she's going to go in being a bitch so maybe stop making every dinner a FAQ about why Kim is such a bitch.

[Persnickety1]

Lisa V did a blog.  She said she was there the night Brandi was smoking weed with Kyle and Kyle didn't partake then either.  So truth or friend backing friend with a lie?

 

Brandi's wording in that reference was selective.

 

"The last time I smoked was when I was with you."

 

She didn't say "The last I smoked was when we smoked together."

 

Again, she apparently relied on semantics.  She never said Kyle smoked, too, but she intimated that and definitely made it seem as if Kyle smoked, too, but when you really look at it, she never said Kyle smoked, too.

 

Brandi's good at verbal fuckery and innuendo.

 

Based on Brandi's track of such bullshit tactics in the past, I'm going to go with Lisa V is the "truth cannon" in this instance.  

 

No wonder Brandi said she didn't partake at the pot shop and had to stay on her A Game or whatever she said.

 

Calculating bitch.  

[SwordQueen]

Watching the scenes in the pot pub and from the Dinner From Hell: The Sequel, I'm very curious about Brandi's friendships, in particular with Jennifer.  I wonder how Brandi is around her when it comes to drinking and taking drugs -- if she does or abstains completely.  I know Brandi has reflected on whether or not it's a good idea for her to imbibe around Kim but I never got a sense of her coming to a conclusion on that.  She seems, from what has been shown, to be sensitive and caring towards Jennifer, but I wonder how she'd react if it were Jennifer who "took a pain pill" and then proceeded to yell and scream at her?  Would Brandi be so ready to excuse her behavior and would she go around and drop little truth bombs to other people regarding Jennifer's sobriety?  I also wonder, if Jennifer is watching this show, how she feels about Brandi doing this to Kim?

 

She was very judgmental towards Kyle and the rest of the ladies about their drug pasts and in particular, about Kyle's reluctance to indulge while in Amsterdam, on camera.  Was this just because it was Kyle or is she like this with her other friends?  Does she get on everyone's case RE: hypocrisy, or are her other friends just like she is, with not appearing to care about the repercussions of their behavior, so they just let it all hang out?  Brandi was definitely behaving as if she had been chastised and warned prior to their trip and I wonder who was behind that, unless, like some suggested, it was part of the plan she and Kim cooked up to wreak havoc on the other ladies.  It seems kinda silly for her to worry about legal ramifications of any drunken behavior on the trip since this season she's already been shown inebriated on camera.

Edited March 6, 2015 by SwordQueen

[SwordQueen]

Because then you're just a hall monitor and who wants to live their lives continuously pointing out someone else's behavior? It was pointed out. It's the constant pointing out that I find ridiculous, time consuming and chaotic. Just not smart and pretty much sets the scene for more disruption. Who wants that? Oh wait, yeah, Bravo does. 

 

 

When will Kim stop pointing out that Kyle is not there for her?

When will Kim stop pointing out that others are going to cause her kids to "disown" her?

When will Kim stop pointing out that others are talking behind her back?

When will Kim stop pointing out that Lisa is trying to harm her sobriety?

When will Kim stop pointing out (literally) that Eileen has an ugly face or that Lisa needs bread?

When will Kim stop pointing out that Kyle (literally) runs away from her?

When will Kim stop pointing out that other people are being stupid?

When will Kim stop pointing? 

Edited March 6, 2015 by SwordQueen

[BlackMamba]

Ummm, Lisa did not say that she was present when Brandi claimed Kyle smoked pot, she only said she has never seen Kyle smoke (pot) in all the years she has known her.

 

Kyle's blog is up and she wrote this little tid bit in her section about the "coffeehouse" LOL.  "I don't know why Brandi thought it was hypocritical of us not to have a space cake. SHE wasn't having any because her lawyer told her she couldn't."  1 of the things that make us go HMMMMMMMMMMM! LOL 

 

DAMN, BRANDI, KYLE JUST TOLD YOU

 

[Watermelon]

Lisa V did a blog.  She said she was there the night Brandi was smoking weed with Kyle and Kyle didn't partake then either.  So truth or friend backing friend with a lie?

Parsing of words. Brandi never said Kyle smoked weed. She said the last time she(Brandi) smoked weed Kyle was there. She implied it, without coming right out and lying.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Watermelon

[Avaleigh]

So the lack of apology for that one incident is enough to send these women on such a crusade that would more than likely cause more harm than good and create even more outrageous incidents? The logic escapes me.

It isn't just about the lack of apologies although multiple ones need to be given by Kim at this point. It's about the rude behavior (it wasn't just Poker Night as has been pointed out by myself and others), it's about the lies, it's about the hypocrisy, it's about her unpleasant attitude, it's about Kim's addiction getting in the way of daily life so that Kim can't even be counted on to not flip out on people during a something simple like a car ride or while loading some suitcases in front of the airport. There's no telling what's going to set Kim off because her substance abuse issues make her unpredictable and often combative. 

[GreatKazu]

 

I don't doubt that Kim's put the family through it but I also don't believe that she's been the type of drain that requires complete abandonment.

If I were to go solely by what Kim has done on the show, it would be a drain on me, personally. I no longer have the tolerance that I once had for addicts due to being educated by professionals in the field of addiction.  I do have sympathy.  If I dealt with Kim 15 years ago, I would be enabling and enduring.  Of course, what you or I would consider a drain, cannot be put on anyone else. Everyone is different, and everyone reaches the point where they need to remove themselves from a toxic and/or abusive situation, just like each addict reaches the point where they no longer want to be an addict. Some addicts lose a job and their family and realize they need to get sober. Some addicts lose everything and still remain an addict. Some never reach rock bottom while others do. There is no crystal ball to tell each person what will be an addict's rock bottom, but there is assurance that if the co-dependents in the addict's life set boundaries for the addict, they are at least assured they are not caught up in the hell that is known as addiction. Each professional I have spoken with about addiction has said the same thing: set boundaries, remove yourself if it becomes abusive, put your needs first and protect any minor children from the situation.

 

Kim's children - if what Kim said is true - have a right to remove themselves from her life or to at least set boundaries.  They are adults. They are the ones who likely dealt with some verbal abuse, mom's finger-pointing, possibly watching mom drag man after man into their family home and watch her being taken advantaged of by these men, finding mom passed out countless times, watching their mother get into heated arguments with various family members, finding empty liquor bottles and pill bottles all around the house, endured eating mom's chicken salad (lol).

 

 

"I don't know why Brandi thought it was hypocritical of us not to have a space cake. SHE wasn't having any because her lawyer told her she couldn't.

Ohhhh Brandi, you got served!  How's that legal matter going for you? You know, the one you wanted to go to court for?

Edited March 6, 2015 by GreatKazu

[kassa]

Would you consider changing Kim's lyric to: "And I just can't hide it" ... ?

 

 

Another option:

 

Kyle:  "I'm so excited"

Kim:  "And I'm hiding it really, really well.  Nobody suspects a thing!"

 

Seriously, though... whenever I see that scene, or stills from it, I go back to my immediate reaction, and that is that those women as little girls were on the receiving end of that same behavior from their mother, and how terrifying that must have been.  For them both to go into the same voice, gestures, language (I forget, but Kim said something like "____, Missy!" which wouldn't really come naturally to somebody in our generation, but is just what somebody in our parents' might have said to a child back in the day.)  It made me sad for them.

 

I feel fairly confident that Kyle managed NOT to do that with her kids, or at least really infrequently.  Kim?  Can't say the same.  

[Sincerely Yours]

Brandi's wording in that reference was selective.

 

"The last time I smoked was when I was with you."

 

She didn't say "The last I smoked was when we smoked together."

 

Again, she apparently relied on semantics.  She never said Kyle smoked, too, but she intimated that and definitely made it seem as if Kyle smoked, too, but when you really look at it, she never said Kyle smoked, too.

 

Brandi's good at verbal fuckery and innuendo.

 

Based on Brandi's track of such bullshit tactics in the past, I'm going to go with Lisa V is the "truth cannon" in this instance.  

 

No wonder Brandi said she didn't partake at the pot shop and had to stay on her A Game or whatever she said.

 

Calculating bitch.  

Or Brandi was pointing out that Kyle wasn't new to the world of pot and is so clueless to the goings ons.

When will Kim stop pointing out that Kyle is not there for her?

When will Kim stop pointing out that others are going to cause her kids to "disown" her?

When will Kim stop pointing out that others are talking behind her back?

When will Kim stop pointing out that Lisa is trying to harm her sobriety?

When will Kim stop pointing out (literally) that Eileen has an ugly face or that Lisa needs bread?

When will Kim stop pointing out that Kyle (literally) runs away from her?

When will Kim stop pointing out that other people are being stupid?

When will Kim stop pointing? 

Well since everyone keeps giving her the opening by keeping the same old song playing on repeat at every function then I guess never.

[SwordQueen]

What's amusing to me is that Kim was so involved in trying to prove her sobriety through junkie logic that she didn't even hear not only Rinna's apology but that Rinna basically said that Kim was right in that she had gone too far in her efforts (overstepped).  Kim was right, she said (no matter how sincere it was).  You'd think that would have appeased and vindicated Kim, in that moment. But Kim couldn't/wouldn't even hear it because she had a plan.  A plan to make Rinna pay, dammit, and anyone else, who got in her way.  This was not about Kim's feelings being hurt, or Kim's children suddenly realizing that she wasn't sober, or anything else but revenge and spite because Rinna had her number.  As did Eileen which is why she went off on her almost as much. 

 

Kim was pissed that Lisa R and Eileen weren't going to be cooperative and obey Kim's secrecy rules.  Kim was pissed that her "pain pill disagreed with me" story was being scrutinized and questioned.  Kim was pissed that the other HW wouldn't accept that excuse in lieu of an apology, which Kim didn't feel like she was obligated to give.  Kim was pissed that they were pissed and she wasn't going to let that go.

[Umbelina]

I take issue with Lipsa "apologizing" because while technically, she made sure to couch it in that way, what she was really doing is exactly what Kim asked her to STOP doing, bringing up Kim's sobriety on the show.

[jjbjjbh]

 

Sincerely Yours writes: 

Sad how our resolve gets smaller and smaller generation after generation and it's more acceptable for complete self preservation as opposed to way back in the day where family would endure anything and everything to make sure everyone gets through life as best as they can. It's like nah, if I stress over you I can't have my steak dinners so sorry you have to starve instead of the way it used to be where if I'm having steak and you're eating crumbs then even though Imma have to sacrifice the luxury, we BOTH will  have enough to eat.

 

Can't look down on someone unless I'm there to help them up. Not my style. These women make me sad because this is what the world is coming to. Fake concern that lasts all of two seconds. Complaining about family to anyone who will listen. Wanted pats on the back for what should be done for family etc. etc. Of course the emotion is strong but the grandstanding is the part I don't get. Reassurance is necessary but dissolving into hysterics is what boggles my mind. These women have been through soooooo much and they can't figure out how to handle this situation with strength, dignity, decorum and restraint? I don't buy that and that's what really angers me. These women have no doubt exhibited strength thru trials in life. We've heard of so many over the seasons but for some reason they are all reduced to screeching sorority girls because Bravo is in tow. Despicable!

Dear Sincerely yours: I LOVE LOVE LOVE all your posts. Wish I could "like" your posts a million times. You bring a wisdom, perspective and experience which is  unique and sorely needed. 

 

PLEASE, Sincerely Yours, can you promise to write at least One  post a day? I feel so heartened and hopeful after reading your posts. They restore my faith in humanity.

Edited March 6, 2015 by jjbjjbh

[WireWrap]

So the lack of apology for that one incident is enough to send these women on such a crusade that would more than likely cause more harm than good and create even more outrageous incidents? The logic escapes me.

It is not just the lack of an apology, it is the lack or really the refusal to admit to any responsibility for her actions.

[slitz]

Another voice chimes in on Brandi Glanvillian's account of this episode:

 

http://tamaratattles.com/2015/03/05/brandi-glanville-is-profoundly-stupid/#more-14640

That was perfection.  Thank you for posting the link.

[SwordQueen]

Does Kim stop doing what others have asked her not to do? 

 

Poor Kim.  I'm going to start a GoFundMe account for Kim Richards because she's obviously being bullied, mistreated, misrepresented, and maligned by life.  It's unfair.  Life is being unfair.  I'm telling!

[Watermelon]

I take issue with Lipsa "apologizing" because while technically, she made sure to couch it in that way, what she was really doing is exactly what Kim asked her to STOP doing, bringing up Kim's sobriety on the show 

 

Eh. I expect people on a tv show to do better/know better. If someone kept bringing something up on camera and they say, 'I'm sorry, I interfered because I'm surrounded by addiction and I took it too far", MY reaction wouldn't be to go, 'YOU DAMN SURE DID AND FURTHERMORE BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M STILL SOBER YOU'RE ANOREXIC, AND YOU HAVE AN UGLY FACE AND WHY ARE YOU HIDING BEHIND YOUR JACKET AND I KNOW SECRETS TOO ABOUT YOUR HUSBAND!"  I would just say "thank you for your concern' and drink my juice.  But I'm not on a tv show.

[Trooper York]

You would say that because you are not high. 

 

Or an Escapee from Oxycontin Mountain.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Trooper York

[GreatKazu]

I take issue with Lipsa "apologizing" because while technically, she made sure to couch it in that way, what she was really doing is exactly what Kim asked her to STOP doing, bringing up Kim's sobriety on the show.

You mean, like what Brandi did when she talked to Kim about what LisaR supposedly said before they took that flight? That conversation where Brandi conveniently forgot to say how much she had to say about Kim's sobriety?

 

Brandi mentioned a patch Kim was wearing and alluded something about that patch.

 

Brandi alluded to Kim threatening suicide.

 

Brandi mentioned the 2 a.m. phone calls where Kim needed help, and Kyle was of no help.

 

Brandi talking to LisaR about a possible intervention.

 

Brandi talking to Jennifer G. about Kim's problems.

[CajunGirl]

Hi all! Long-time PTV lurker and former TWOP addict here. Couldn't stay in hiding any longer... Your comments (some so hilarious I had tears and others so incredibly enlightening) finally drew me out!

I come from a family with a long, tragic history of drug and alcohol abuse. In fact, alcohol and drug abuse caused the deaths of three of my grandparents and different addiction issues with many, many other family members. My parents tried to shield me and my siblings from the horrors of addiction they had witnessed as children and while none of us turned out to be raging alcoholics or drug addicts, we have all been in therapy for codependency issues. Some of us have been more successful than others (I'm 51 and still working on my need to be needed!), and watching Kyle and Kim do the codependency dance is really painful because its just so real and so ugly.

I haven't seen anyone raise that possibility about Lisar, though. Even though I do believe Lisar was trying a little too hard to help Kim with her issues (these shows demand you stay relevant or you're off, right?), I saw some of her "eagerness" as her own codependency issues coming to light. Behaviors vary depending on the role someone has played in their codependent relationships (addict, enabler, fixer). I really believe Lisar thought she could help Kim - but Lisar was viewing it through her own codependent lens. Fact: She watched her husband lose two brothers to alcoholism (and my guess is there were unsuccessful interventions involved at some point) and her own sister died of a drug/alcohol overdose. She also talked about Harry's issue with alcohol. And as someone so familiar with family addiction and codependency issues,, I had an almost visceral reaction to Lisar's repeated attempts to help. With her life experience, I'm sure Lisar feels she has the necessary knowledge and credibility to help Kim in matters of addiction. But the problem (that we codependent "fixers" definitely don't like to admit) is that our "desire to help" is really more a "need to fix." And if there's one thing an addict hates more than being sober, its havng someone offer to "help" (codeword for "fix") them. Lisar probably knew that deep down inside, but the need to "fix" doesn't die that easily. So even when she was trying to apologize at the dinner table, there was still a hint of something there that Kim the addict could pick up on when no one else could (except for Kyle who was probably grinding her teeth in fear the whole time Lisar was talking about her sister who died of a drug/alcohol overdose).

I didn't mean to be so long-winded... Guess this episode (and all of the episodes involving Kim's sobriety) hit a nerve.

My thoughts on all the HoWives:

Kyle - She needs to get to a CoDA or Al-Anon meeting ASAP and cut Kim out of her life completely (at least for now). Kim will drag her down and Kyle will continue to play the martyr until she wakes up one day and finds her martyrdom is what defines her (unless it already does and that's why she can't set boundaries with Kim). Kyle has a nice husband, great kids and seemingly real friends. She needs to cut the Kim-cord.

LisaR- I've always liked her - ever since her stint on Days. Her daughters seem a little entitled though. If they were mine, I'd be hauling their asses to volunteer at some homeless shelters or soup kitchens. They seem to need a little perspective. And whether HH has a secret or not, who gives a shit? (Shhhh.... Don't tell, but we ALL probably have at least one secret). Her reaction to Kim clearly hit a tender spot but giving that much attention to Kim made it seem like there was some "there" there. She needs to learn to flick Kim off like she would a gnat. I hope Lisar comes back next year.

Eileen - So gorgeous (if she's had "work" done, she owes it to the world to share the name of the plastic surgeon!). She's classy and carries herself with dignity and grace (and makes it look easy) and she seems very comfortable in her own skin. My mom has watched Days since the very first episode and I started watching it when I was about 10. Whenever one of us says something not-so-nice to the other, our standard "apology" is, "Kris-tan, you are mean, mean, MEAN!" I hope Eileen also comes back next year.

Brandi - I don't call other women "b-tches" or the "c" word and despite the overwhelming urge, I won't start with her. But of all the ridiculous, nasty things she has said and/or implied, the one that fries me most is her insistence that she's a good mother (and throwing shade on the other housewives' mothering abilities). She's a horrid example of a woman, let alone a mother. She has sold her soul for 15 minutes of fame and five years from now, she'll be just another has-been living a life of total irrelevance. Unfortunately, her boys can't escape from the fallout. Unless they have no access to a computer or a TV or are illiterate, all the hateful, skanky things she has said and done in her bid for stardom are out there for the whole world (including them) to see. As a single mom myself, what I find most depressing is Brandi was given an opportunity most single mothers would envy. She was given the opportunity to better her life and the lives of her boys by being filmed taking trips to exotic places and hob-nobbibg with the rich and famous. All she had to do was make it interesting. Instead, she has chosen to "out" things she had no right to (the surrogacy "outing" was beyond disgusting), make false accusations and play friends and family members against each other, behind their backs. Aside from all that, she's likely ruined any chance that might have existed to parlay this gig into something lasting and worthwhile (which would have meant more security for her kids). Way to go, Truth Cannon!

Kim - I used to love her. I'm her age and watching her on TV was part of life growing up. I truly wish her well in her recovery. But she's played this "poor me - why is everyone picking on me?"card for so long, I've finally stopped caring. Truth be told, she's an ugly drunk and an even uglier dry drunk. She needs to leave the show and do the really hard, necessary work of recovery (including making amends to those whom she's offended or hurt, which will probably take the rest of her life). The reason I watch the BH Housewives is to escape for just a little while into a more interesting, glamorous life than my own. Kim is neither interesting nor glamorous. She's just tragic.

Yolanda - I hope she finds relief for her Lyme Disease symptoms. I have two autoimmune diseases and I completely understand the relapsing/remitting course her Lyme seems to be taking. I hope David is helping her navigate the tricky waters of alternative medicine. There are so many snake oil peddlers just looking for people desperate to feel well again. On to other things - her house is simply magnificent and I love her design aesthetic. Her kids seem well-adjusted and accomplished (one DUI doesn't make Bella sub-human) and I love her laid back approach to most things (even the way she dresses looks laid back and effortless). I hope she's well enough to return next year because she seems like a genuinely kind, caring person. This show desperately needs people like that.

Finally, my favorite...Lisa V. This show would be such a snooze-fest without her elegance, bawdy humor, OTT lifestyle (swans! Giggy and friends! that closet!) and her ability to convey to us, the audience, that she's "in on the joke." I always feel like she's winking at which is so refreshing when so many of the other HoWives take themselves so seriously. She seems to love having fun and isn't afraid to act silly sometimes. She just seems real (at least as real as a multi, multi millionaire can seem!). This may sound terrible, but one of my favorite Lisa scenes was when she and Ken sat on the stairs and shared a cig last year (can't remember where they were, but it was when Kim went apeshit on Ken and even Yolo was in on the action). Even though I hated the obviously orchestrated (scripted?) take-down of Ken and Lisa, I love that we saw Lisa and Ken have that REAL moment. I love that Lisa admits she partied in the 80s (just like a lot of us did) and I only wish she'd been at the Pot Bar with people who weren't so afraid of being filmed doing something legal (eye-roll). I have no doubt Lisa V is hilarious when stoned. I don't know if her life is as awesome as it seems, but I hope it is. She and Ken worked hard for it and they're not ashamed to flaunt it. Love them!

[CatMomma]

 

So the lack of apology for that one incident is enough to send these women on such a crusade that would more than likely cause more harm than good and create even more outrageous incidents? The logic escapes me.

 

It's not one incident.  Kim has been getting away with behaving badly since the first season, yet she has never apologized.

 

Look, I am frustrated with Eileen and, in particular, Lisar because they keep mentioning Kim's addiction in regards to her behavior.  I wish they, or anyone for that matter, would address her behavior without making excuses.  I am of the opinion that Kim would be insufferable no matter what. I think she is probably just a horrible person, regardless of her substance abuse.

 

Kim doesn't want her sobriety brought up? Fine. Then how about they simply talk about her horrendous and abusive behavior? If anyone, ANYONE else in the cast behaved like Kim, they would be called out.  Hell, I had to be subjected to 3 episodes of LVP being underhanded with some stupid tabloids.  Kyle was eviscerated for saying that LVP preys on the weak.  There is a petition to get rid of Brandi.  

 

Yet, for some reason, Kim always gets a pass.  "She's fragile!" "She's an addict!" "Stop hounding her!". Fuck that.  She has, at one point or another, been absolutely terrible to every cast member. It's time she learned some hard truths.

Edited March 6, 2015 by CatMomma

[GreatKazu]

 

But the problem (that we codependent "fixers" definitely don't like to admit) is that our "desire to help" is really more a "need to fix." And if there's one thing an addict hates more than being sober, its havng someone offer to "help" (codeword for "fix") them.

Having memories of Kim as she tried to do an intervention for Taylor ON CAMERA with Kyle by her side.

 

Can't recall. Did Taylor get upset at Kim for doing this on camera?

Edited March 6, 2015 by GreatKazu

[WireWrap]

Having memories of Kim as she tried to do an intervention for Taylor ON CAMERA with Kyle by her side.

No, Taylor tried to defend herself but Kim kept cutting her off, so Taylor just accepted it and let it pass without going apeshit on Kim/Kyle. She was really pretty gracious about what they did especially considering they used 1 incident, which was a lie, to try and make Kim look sober and to give her, Kim, a storyline because Kim had nothing otherwise.

Edited March 6, 2015 by WireWrap

[CatMomma]

No, Taylor tried to defend herself but Kim kept cutting her off, so Taylor just accepted it and let it pass without going apeshit on Kim/Kyle. She was really pretty gracious about what they did especially considering they used 1 incident, which was a lie, to try and make Kim look sober and to give her, Kim, a storyline because Kim had nothing otherwise.

 

I think anyone who has been around Kim for an extended period of time knows that one should just nod and say, "You are right, Kim."  Lisar has learned it the hard way. Eileen still isn't there.

 

I am just over the enabling of Kim.  

[LotusFlower]

I have a different take on Kyle's reaction to Kim.  I think that Kyle has seen Kim on drugs for so much of her life that Kyle is asking not "What's wrong with you?" but "What's wrong with you (this time)?"  Kim is always on something and I do think they are (mostly) prescribed by her doctor(s) whether they are for anxiety or pain for cosmetic surgery.  Kyle stated after Poker Night that Kim was acting the same way that night as she did when Kyle knew she was using (abusing) Xanax.  And I think that is why she was really scared of Brandi's involvement with Kim.

When did Kyle ever acknowledge Kim used or abused Xanax? I feel like I would have remembered that, as everyone (except for Brandi) usually tip-toes around naming the various drugs.

[SwordQueen]

Thank you for your insightful post, CajunGirl, and welcome to the boards!

 

It's not one incident.  Kim has been getting away with behaving badly since the first season, yet she has never apologized.

 

Look, I am frustrated with Eileen and, in particular, Lisar because they keep mentioning Kim's addiction in regards to her behavior.  I wish they, or anyone for that matter, would address her behavior without making excuses.  I am of the opinion that Kim would be insufferable no matter what. I think she is probably just a horrible person, regardless of her substance abuse.

 

Kim doesn't want her sobriety brought up? Fine. The how about they simply talk about her horrendous and abusive behavior? If anyone, ANYONE else in the cast behaved like Kim, they would be called out.  Hell, I had to be subjected to 3 episodes of LVP being underhanded with some stupid tabloids.  Kyle was eviscerated for saying that LVP preys on the weak.  There is a petition to get rid of Brandi.  

 

Yet, for some reason, Kim always gets a pass.  "She's fragile!" "She's an addict!" "Stop hounding her!". Fuck that.  She has, at one point or another, been absolutely terrible to every cast member. It's time she learned some hard truths.

 

So much yes to your post.  It's more about her behavior and not her sobriety because sober or not, she's responsible for how she behaves.  And excusing that behavior as just part of her "addiction" or "illness" is probably doing more harm long-term than good.  Lots of people have illnesses (mental and physical) and addictions.  They do not all act the way Kim does.  Being a horrible person is generally not a symptom or side-effect of illness or medication, so she needs to stop having her behavior excused for her. It doesn't help her to think she gets a free pass in life to behave how she wants to because she's a fragile addict.  That's just enabling. 

[Avaleigh]

Well since everyone keeps giving her the opening by keeping the same old song playing on repeat at every function then I guess never.

LisaR gave Kim a different song to sing. Kim had an out and she decided to go into a long rant about her sobriety and give the viewers specifics about her drug issues. Kim is responsible for keeping the song the same not only through using and lying about having a relapse but by engaging in the conversation in the first place.

 

I take issue with Lipsa "apologizing" because while technically, she made sure to couch it in that way, what she was really doing is exactly what Kim asked her to STOP doing, bringing up Kim's sobriety on the show.

I didn't see it that way at all. I saw Kim having the perfect opportunity to do what she claims she wants to do which is not bring attention to her issues with addiction. Kim brought more attention to her situation by protesting way too much about her so-called three years of sobriety even though Kim has stated on more than one occasion that taking even ONE pill = having a relapse. This is Kim's own definition of what it means to have a relapse. 

[Sincerely Yours]

It is not just the lack of an apology, it is the lack or really the refusal to admit to any responsibility for her actions.

Ok so lack of apology AND refusal to admit responsibility. Too me the price they've paid which is the disrupted events that could have been enjoyed without incident  seems like a very extreme price just for the pleasure and satisfaction of getting Kim to "own it". I know I wouldn't need it that bad. Not when I got windmills and spacecakes on the itinerary. No sirrreeeee!! Lol!

Dear Sincerely yours: I LOVE LOVE LOVE all your posts. Wish I could "like" your posts a million times. You bring a wisdom, perspective and experience which is  unique and sorely needed. 

 

PLEASE, Sincerely Yours, can you promise to write at least One  post a day? I feel so heartened and hopeful after reading your posts. They restore my faith in humanity.

Awwww, thanks I'm truly touched.

[SwordQueen]

I wanted to add that if any of her behavior is directly linked to drinking, drugging or taking prescribed meds, then it is still Kim's responsibility to do something to correct that.  Not taking pills that do not belong to you, going to your DR to switch meds, going to CB therapy, changing who you socialize with, etc.  Just like with Brandi, who admits that she gets out of control when she drinks too much.  How does she stop herself from getting out of control when she drinks too much?  The answer is in the question. 

[Sincerely Yours]

Does Kim stop doing what others have asked her not to do? 

 

Poor Kim.  I'm going to start a GoFundMe account for Kim Richards because she's obviously being bullied, mistreated, misrepresented, and maligned by life.  It's unfair.  Life is being unfair.  I'm telling!

What have they asked her not to do that didn't result from Poker night and EVERYBODY's role is escalating it to what we have now?

[Sincerely Yours]

It's not one incident.  Kim has been getting away with behaving badly since the first season, yet she has never apologized.

 

Look, I am frustrated with Eileen and, in particular, Lisar because they keep mentioning Kim's addiction in regards to her behavior.  I wish they, or anyone for that matter, would address her behavior without making excuses.  I am of the opinion that Kim would be insufferable no matter what. I think she is probably just a horrible person, regardless of her substance abuse.

 

Kim doesn't want her sobriety brought up? Fine. Then how about they simply talk about her horrendous and abusive behavior? If anyone, ANYONE else in the cast behaved like Kim, they would be called out.  Hell, I had to be subjected to 3 episodes of LVP being underhanded with some stupid tabloids.  Kyle was eviscerated for saying that LVP preys on the weak.  There is a petition to get rid of Brandi.  

 

Yet, for some reason, Kim always gets a pass.  "She's fragile!" "She's an addict!" "Stop hounding her!". Fuck that.  She has, at one point or another, been absolutely terrible to every cast member. It's time she learned some hard truths.

So she's to be crucified for past events or for what Lisa R and Eileen are now newly subjected to? Look it would slightly make more sense if Lisa V were the one to be all in the biz voicing her concern or aggravation what have you because she's had more experience with Kim in a not sober state but it isn't. The mouthpiece is a HW who just joined. This is what I mean about I feel for Kim.

 

I'm focusing on her behavior after her last 3 years of sobriety or longer lasting bouts on the wagon whatever. I don't agree that just anyone can jump on the "call her on her shit" wagon on behalf of someone else. Speak on what affects you, not what affects you plus what I'm privy about regarding you and your sister, not I've got history with addicts and I'm referring to you taking A pill (cause that's Lisa R's reference whether she has more examples or not the PILL was confirmed their hemming and hawing about Kim during Kyle's event was just meanspirited speculation because by that point her and Eileen chose sides).

 

If Kim needs to pay dues fine but I personally don't think whenever an issue creeps up with her sobriety that its back to square one and all her past regrets have to be drudged up again. Noone would ever get out from under it if that's the way it's supposed to go.

[becauseIsaidso]

Ever since I began watching RHBH (and I am one of the few anointed who NEVER heard of Kim Fucking Bitchards before this show)  I haven't cared for either of the Bitchard sisters - they come across as nasty, mean, entitled, arrogant bitches, and I have NO use at all for either of them....)

 

AND...As far as I can see ( with NO knowledge of their previous FAME and/or presumptive place as american golden girls) they are both POS, PITAS, who should just slink back into their lovely, privileged private lives if they really don't want the rest of the county/world to see their dirty little secrets.

 

I don't blame either Lisar (whom I really like) or Eileen (whom I also really like) for the relentless shitstorm of all things Bitchards that seems to clog my screen every time I see their skanky faces!

[SwordQueen]

What have they asked her not to do that didn't result from Poker night and EVERYBODY's role is escalating it to what we have now?

 

I’m not even sure I understand the question. 

 

So, because Poker Night involved more than just Kim behaving badly, then she has no responsibility for her actions thereon out?  Kim’s actions are excused because “The other HW started it!”?  Kim was forced to be nasty to the other HW because they said something she didn’t like?  They brought up a subject she’d asked them not to?  She gets to control every single conversational topic?  She can’t be gracious in the face of someone else’s behavior? 

 

When does Kim’s responsibility for her own self kick in?  Is she not at fault for anything because Kim is one big reaction to the world?  It’s everyone else’s fault that they drove Kim to do things?  Would Kim be a wonderful, kind, sober person if not for other people who make life hard for her? 

 

I’m running out of ideas, here. lol  I honestly don’t know why Kim can’t apologize or admit that she has hurt people (Lisa was able to, more than once but somehow that's not good enough).  And that even, that she can't apologize, is someone else’s fault.  If Lisa is to be held responsible for Lisa's behavior and Kyle for Kyle's behavior and Eileen for Eileen's behavior .... why shouldn't Kim be held responsible for Kim's behavior?   That is all anyone wants, is for Kim to stop blaming others and accept responsibility for her part.   

Edited March 6, 2015 by SwordQueen

[Mozelle]

It's not one incident. Kim has been getting away with behaving badly since the first season, yet she has never apologized.

Look, I am frustrated with Eileen and, in particular, Lisar because they keep mentioning Kim's addiction in regards to her behavior. I wish they, or anyone for that matter, would address her behavior without making excuses. I am of the opinion that Kim would be insufferable no matter what. I think she is probably just a horrible person, regardless of her substance abuse.

Kim doesn't want her sobriety brought up? Fine. Then how about they simply talk about her horrendous and abusive behavior? If anyone, ANYONE else in the cast behaved like Kim, they would be called out. Hell, I had to be subjected to 3 episodes of LVP being underhanded with some stupid tabloids. Kyle was eviscerated for saying that LVP preys on the weak. There is a petition to get rid of Brandi.

Yet, for some reason, Kim always gets a pass. "She's fragile!" "She's an addict!" "Stop hounding her!". Fuck that. She has, at one point or another, been absolutely terrible to every cast member. It's time she learned some hard truths.

I'm beginning to think that Andy (and his team of editors) did Kim a disservice in season one by editing out all her addict behavior. She got a reprieve, too, by not having to write any blogs because she actively chose not to watch anything from that season. I think that Kim is quite accustomed to people making excuses for her behavior (in addition to all of the excuses she makes for herself) that it never occurs to her that she has done something wrong. She can't bring herself to apologize for anything (though, in this weird twist, she convinces herself that she has apologized).

I liked that Eileen pointed out that Kim had not, in fact, apologized for her poker night behavior. And what was Kim's response to Eileen's point? To say that she doesn't like Eileen's face or her hair, and when people make excuses for her atrocious behavior all it does is justify to her that everyone else is in the wrong.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Mozelle

[thewhiteowl]

 

So she's to be crucified for past events or for what Lisa R and Eileen are now newly subjected to?

 

 I don't think being questioned a couple of times amounts to a crucifixion. The addict certainly does because anything that threatens the addiction is to be treated with a nuclear response.  It's a common response from addicts. Deflect, intimidate into compliance. Really pretty textbook. I'm so glad we get to see it and have this illuminating discourse.  : )

 

[LotusFlower]

I'm beginning to think that Andy (and his team of editors) did Kim a disservice in season one by editing out all her addict behavior. She got a reprieve, too, by not having to write any blogs because she actively chose not to watch anything from that season.

Don't believe it. I'm sure she did watch the episodes in question, just like this season, except she pretends to have not, only to give herself a pass on commenting on her embarrassing behavior. Coward.

[WireWrap]

Ok so lack of apology AND refusal to admit responsibility. Too me the price they've paid which is the disrupted events that could have been enjoyed without incident  seems like a very extreme price just for the pleasure and satisfaction of getting Kim to "own it". I know I wouldn't need it that bad. Not when I got windmills and spacecakes on the itinerary. No sirrreeeee!! Lol!

Awwww, thanks I'm truly touched.

They did enjoy Amsterdam despite what happened at that dinner. Yes, acknowledgement that she was out of line/wrong/high/whatever goes a long way. Also, not repeating said aggressive behavior because you get called out on your ugly/aggressive behavior in the first place goes a long way. Kim kept up the nasty attitude every time she was face to face with LisaR/Eileen. A polite "I made a mistake, acted like an asshole, was rude to both of you and to my sister, I am sorry" would have ended any and all talk about Kim. But instead it was "Blah, blah, blah, blah" otherwise know as "I don't hear you" with her fingers planted firmly in her ears! 

 

So she's to be crucified for past events or for what Lisa R and Eileen are now newly subjected to? Look it would slightly make more sense if Lisa V were the one to be all in the biz voicing her concern or aggravation what have you because she's had more experience with Kim in a not sober state but it isn't. The mouthpiece is a HW who just joined. This is what I mean about I feel for Kim.

 

I'm focusing on her behavior after her last 3 years of sobriety or longer lasting bouts on the wagon whatever. I don't agree that just anyone can jump on the "call her on her shit" wagon on behalf of someone else. Speak on what affects you, not what affects you plus what I'm privy about regarding you and your sister, not I've got history with addicts and I'm referring to you taking A pill (cause that's Lisa R's reference whether she has more examples or not the PILL was confirmed their hemming and hawing about Kim during Kyle's event was just meanspirited speculation because by that point her and Eileen chose sides).

 

If Kim needs to pay dues fine but I personally don't think whenever an issue creeps up with her sobriety that its back to square one and all her past regrets have to be drudged up again. Noone would ever get out from under it if that's the way it's supposed to go.

In other words, everyone must accept Kim no matter how out of her mind she is! Yea, that's been doing her a whole lot of good because that is how she has been treated most of her life IMO.

 

There is the catch, Kim relapses and does have to earn back trust. She has to show to everyone that she stopped again and is working whatever program she choses and she has not done that. She denies that she even had a slip let alone relapsed because in her pickled addict mind, only she can say she relapsed which is ridiculous.

Edited March 6, 2015 by WireWrap

[AnnA]

Hi all! Long-time PTV lurker and former TWOP addict here. Couldn't stay in hiding any longer... Your comments (some so hilarious I had tears and others so incredibly enlightening) finally drew me out!

 

Welcome Cajungirl~

 

Excellent post!

Edited March 6, 2015 by AnnA

[MatildaMoody]

That's an awesome idea!  Thank you for the suggestion.

 

I just spent about 20 minutes looking through this thread so I could reply to whoever it was that watched the episode with her husband.  When they watched the scene with Kim making accusations about Harry, he made a joke about Clash of the Titans and Medusa (aka Harry and Kim).  I thought that was hilarious and I'd like to thank her and her husband, who obviously has a great sense of humor.   Unfortunately, I couldn't find it. 

 

Anyway, this one's for you!

 

This is one of the few times I wish I had a Twitter account. i would totally tweet this photo to Lisa Rinna. 

[Persnickety1]

I'm beginning to think that Andy (and his team of editors) did Kim a disservice in season one by editing out all her addict behavior. She got a reprieve, too, by not having to write any blogs because she actively chose not to watch anything from that season. I think that Kim is quite accustomed to people making excuses for her behavior (in addition to all of the excuses she makes for herself) that it never occurs to her that she has done something wrong. She can't bring herself to apologize for anything (though, in this weird twist, she convinces herself that she has apologized.

I liked that Eileen pointed out that Kim had not, in fact, apologized for her poker night behavior. And what was Kim's response to Eileen's point? To say that she doesn't like Eileen's face or her hair), and when people make excuses for her atrocious behavior all it does is justify to her that everyone else is in the wrong.

 

Interesting....

 

Last night I was watching a Teen Mom catch-up episode with Amber, known primarily for domestic violence against her boyfriend and substance abuse.

 

Like Kim, Amber refused to watch her behavior over the seasons of Teen Mom.

 

I'm not a licensed clinician, but it seems to me watching one's own ghastly behavior while using could be a positive learning tool, even reinforcement to keep one on the straight and narrow.

 

This is the second reality TV personality I've seen who refuses to watch their antics captured on film.  

 

Like Kim, Amber also had a lot of relapses.

 

I think if I were in the shoes of Kim or Amber, as unpleasant as it may be, I'd want to view footage of myself in a strung out condition to keep myself on track.

 

In fact, I think I'd probably watch it anytime I started to feel the temptation of relapsing, just to remind myself how horrid I was.  

Edited March 6, 2015 by Persnickety1

[SwordQueen]

They did enjoy Amsterdam despite what happened at that dinner. Yes, acknowledgement that she was out of line/wrong/high/whatever goes a long way. Also, not repeating said aggressive behavior because you get called out on your ugly/aggressive behavior in the first place goes a long way. Kim kept up the nasty attitude every time she was face to face with LisaR/Eileen. A polite "I made a mistake, acted like an asshole, was rude to both of you and to my sister, I am sorry" would have ended any and all talk about Kim. But instead it was "Blah, blah, blah, blah" otherwise know as "I don't hear you" with her fingers planted firmly in her ears! 

 

In other words, everyone must accept Kim no matter how out of her mind she is! Yea, that's been doing her a whole lot of good because that is how she has been treated most of her life IMO.

 

Well, Kim is the Emperor, WireWrap!  Peasants like Kyle, Lisa, Eileen, and all of us, shouldn't dare comment on her new clothes!  That's grounds for 1,000 pointy finger-lashes, as penance.