S05.E12: Remember

[Pete Martell]

But do they really have a long history? Didn't Michonne turn up while they were already at the prison? So...haven't they really only known each other a few months?

 

It's been an intense few months, for sure, but still...not like she's one of the original group...

 

She showed up several days after Judith was born, so it's been more than a few months, but we can't really judge based on the show's timeframe, because we see these relationships over a period of years as viewers, and our reactions are based on seeing them for years. 

 

It's not so much about length of time as emotional bond and the way it's been presented. I don't think he cares that she wasn't one of the originals. I'd actually say he's closer to her than he is to some of the remaining originals. There's an emotional intimacy and honesty there with Rick and Michonne that is very different to many of their relationships with other people, which the show acknowledges by winking and nodding in interviews about their relationship. I think they know the type of response they'll get with bits like her reaction, and I'd rather they just cut them out and focus more on a totally platonic relationship if they aren't going to go anywhere with it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kikismom]

I'm actually starting to like the idea of outside support beams for my future ZA fortress. Have a wall that doesn't need support---but get beams and

just lightly put the top end leaning against the wall, and put the lower end down lightly on the spot where I'll have a detonator for the explosives I have buried.

[mandolin]

I didn't laugh quite as much this week:

http://m.imgur.com/a/kKWns (Photo recap)

[AndySmith]

I loved it.

[LadyMustang65]

Something I forgot to say yesterday.  In response to the folks who thought they should have at least brought down mattresses, I assumed they didn't because they didn't want to get *too* comfortable.  As tired as they must be, lie down on a mattress, and they're going to be out cold for hours.  If someone did try to come after them, it would be that much harder to react to it.  So they wanted to stay together and in a "normal" situation so that they would hear and react quickly to any attempt to overcome them in their sleep. 

[Dodginblue]

She showed up several days after Judith was born, so it's been more than a few months, but we can't really judge based on the show's timeframe, because we see these relationships over a period of years as viewers, and our reactions are based on seeing them for years. 

 

It's not so much about length of time as emotional bond and the way it's been presented. I don't think he cares that she wasn't one of the originals. I'd actually say he's closer to her than he is to some of the remaining originals. There's an emotional intimacy and honesty there with Rick and Michonne that is very different to many of their relationships with other people, which the show acknowledges by winking and nodding in interviews about their relationship. I think they know the type of response they'll get with bits like her reaction, and I'd rather they just cut them out and focus more on a totally platonic relationship if they aren't going to go anywhIere with it.

 

I've said before that I don't think Rick and Michonne are meant for each other romantically but another reason why I don't think it will happen, or should happen, is that as the leader of the group Rick would have to be careful about pairing up with one of the women members.  That's what happens in cults, the leader starts picking off the women for himself, and it never leads to good things.  It was different with Lori, he was married to her pre-ZA.   But it's the kind of thing that can adversely affect group cohesion in a serious way.  Now if the show moves in the direction of introducing a different story line or a more expanded story line, about building a ZA society beyond just the core group's daily battle for survival, then maybe a romantic adventure for Rick could be incorporated into the story line, although I still don't think it would be Michonne.  But as long as he's the leader of our merry band of road warriors, I don't think it should happen.

[NoWillToResist]

What would happen in this quiet community if someone, say one of those elderly folks, passed away in the middle of the night?

 

Assuming they know about the whole dying=walker (and they actually may not know that), they could have a system set up where everyone locks themselves in their own bedrooms at night. Kind of what our gang SHOULD have been doing at the prison, IMO.

 

She showed up several days after Judith was born, so it's been more than a few months, but we can't really judge based on the show's timeframe, because we see these relationships over a period of years as viewers, and our reactions are based on seeing them for years. 

 

It's not so much about length of time as emotional bond and the way it's been presented. I don't think he cares that she wasn't one of the originals. I'd actually say he's closer to her than he is to some of the remaining originals. There's an emotional intimacy and honesty there with Rick and Michonne that is very different to many of their relationships with other people, which the show acknowledges by winking and nodding in interviews about their relationship. I think they know the type of response they'll get with bits like her reaction, and I'd rather they just cut them out and focus more on a totally platonic relationship if they aren't going to go anywhere with it.

 

I completely agree that the length of time is less relevant than the 'quality' of that time, but I'm not sure it's fair to want the writers to stop writing emotional closeness between them if they will never 'go there'. One need only read these threads to see that there are lots of people who love their emotional closeness but don't see any romantic prospects; should they lose those Rick/Michonne interactions just because a segment of the fandom sees more and thinks they're being played?

 

Before (social) media made communications between fans and show-runners so easy, there was not, IMO, this sense of being 'owed' by TPTB. They made their show and people either watched it or they didn't. But these days, it seems like TPTB can't just let their story unfold without being accused of baiting fans with one thing or another. I find myself torn on this because, yeah, no one likes to be strung along just to keep ratings up but on the other hand...what if they are considering x relationship? Do they have to tell the fans this to stop the complaining? At what point are we begging to be spoiled about what's coming down the pipe because we want to make sure we're not being played right now?

 

I've seen this on lots of other shows, but TWD seems to be a magnet for this type of criticism. Just look at the Bethyl drama (or better yet, don't).  ;)

Edited March 4, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[AndySmith]

Something I forgot to say yesterday.  In response to the folks who thought they should have at least brought down mattresses, I assumed they didn't because they didn't want to get *too* comfortable.  As tired as they must be, lie down on a mattress, and they're going to be out cold for hours.  If someone did try to come after them, it would be that much harder to react to it.  So they wanted to stay together and in a "normal" situation so that they would hear and react quickly to any attempt to overcome them in their sleep.

 

They could have just divided themselves up in the bedrooms upstairs while taking turns or shifts as watchman/sentry (heck, now that they're clean, maybe Glenn& Maggie or Abe/Rosita would've gone off on their own to get it on or whatever). They could have also done the same had they moved the mattresses downstairs and taken shifts as well. Granted, it was the first or second night there, so they might have just still been in Nell mode, showers and cooked food aside.

Edited March 4, 2015 by AndySmith

[Pete Martell]

I completely agree that the length of time is less relevant than the 'quality' of that time, but I'm not sure it's fair to want the writers to stop writing emotional closeness between them if they will never 'go there'. 

 

I'm not talking about emotional closeness, I'm talking about her giving him the eye after she sees him clean-shaven, especially on top of other bits that might be seen as friendship on their own (like putting her hand on top of his) but seem different within the full context (to me anyway).

 

I don't think the show has to have this stuff. They can still write a close bond without it. 

Before (social) media made communications between fans and show-runners so easy, there was not, IMO, this sense of being 'owed' by TPTB. They made their show and people either watched it or they didn't. But these days, it seems like TPTB can't just let their story unfold without being accused of baiting fans with one thing or another.

 

All they have to do is say in interviews, "It's never going to be more than a close friendship," ask Danai and Andrew to say the same, not write in quasi-romantic moments, and dissuade shipping questions about it on Talking Dead. 

 

That they don't do this, instead choosing to be coy and cute, limits my sympathy for them. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pete Martell

[catrox14]

I really don't imagine our relatively small group that has been together and has seen Maggie and Glenn get married, had Shane sleeping with Lori and Rick with Lori and only Lori, would really think that it's leader; who is often disregarded as a leader, would be particularly upset or worried about Michonne and Rick getting together or they would think it inappropriate because Rick is like the leader of a cult. No one has been brainwashed or told they can't leave. No one is there against their will. Essentially that's saying that Rick can never have another relationship in the entirety of the ZA as long as he's a leader. He's only leading a very small group compared to like, I dunno, the Governor.

[AngelaHunter]

Hopefully this conveys some idea of how much fun this ep has been to discuss here. And still is.

 

It is! Normally by the time I've seen the episode and come here, there's around 200+ posts. This time, there was over 400.

 

This is the first episode in quite awhile that I really liked and that kept my attention the whole time. I nearly gave up after that first embarassing, self-conscious, pretentious, dreary episode where someone thought it would be clever to be all artistic but had no handle on how to do it successfully.

 

Maybe the wave created by the collective outcry of "Oh, FFS!!" from viewers actually buffeted TPTB.

[Boofish]

I have been completely hooked this entire season; ranks as my favorite so far. In (my) order

 

Season 5

Season 2

Season 1

Season 3

Season 4

Edited March 4, 2015 by Boofish

[Constantinople]

Something I forgot to say yesterday.  In response to the folks who thought they should have at least brought down mattresses, I assumed they didn't because they didn't want to get *too* comfortable.  As tired as they must be, lie down on a mattress, and they're going to be out cold for hours.  If someone did try to come after them, it would be that much harder to react to it.  So they wanted to stay together and in a "normal" situation so that they would hear and react quickly to any attempt to overcome them in their sleep.

Nothing is perfect.

Everyone shacking out on the floor together makes it easier to assemble their forces quickly. It also makes it easier to take out CDB all at once. A deeper sleep means they're easier to take unaware. It also means their less well rested the next day when they've split up.

Alexandria may be "soft", but it's difficult to be at full alert 24/7, and Rick & Co. did plenty of stupid things at the original CDB, at the farm, the prison, etc.

Rick may be "hard", but that's not the same as smart. He almost got them killed in the previous episode after Aaron told them "Don't take Route X, it's full of walkers" and Rick responded, "Ah ha! You don't want us to take Route X? We're taking Route X!"

To put it another way, I don't think Rick every watched Kung Fu as a kid

 

Kwai Chang: They took our money, our cart, our clothes, everything we had of value.

Master Kan: Except that which is irreplaceable, your lives. How did you come to leave the main road?

Ho Fong: Because we were fooled. We trusted a stranger.

Kwai Chang: He was an old man with a kind face and a gentle manner.

Master Kan: Ho Fong, what lesson did you learn from this?

Ho Fong: Never trust a stranger!

Master Kan: Kwai Chang, what lesson did you learn from this?

Kwai Chang: To expect the unexpected.

Master Kan: Ho Fong, in the morning when you are well and rested, you will leave the temple.

Ho Fong: When shall I return, Master Kan?

Master Kan: To us, never.

[Nashville]

I didn't laugh quite as much this week:

http://m.imgur.com/a/kKWns (Photo recap)

My favorite:

STOOP KID DOESN'T LEAVE THE STOOP

[morgankobi]

Looking at the first still of the photo recap, I think that is Enid outside the gate when they first get there.

[LadyMustang65]

Everyone shacking out on the floor together makes it easier to assemble their forces quickly. It also makes it easier to take out CDB all at once. A deeper sleep means they're easier to take unaware. It also means their less well rested the next day when they've split up.

 

 

**(Can't figure out how to split up the quotes)  They may be less well rested but they are used to being in that state.  They are ALWAYS less well rested and have learned to function very well that way.  So I still think they were safer that way.  YMMV.

Rick may be "hard", but that's not the same as smart. He almost got them killed in the previous episode after Aaron told them "Don't take Route X, it's full of walkers" and Rick responded, "Ah ha! You don't want us to take Route X? We're taking Route X!"

**Granted I have not re-watched the episode, but my recollection was that Aaron told them they had not cleared the road, as in it might have fallen trees or cars on it, not that it was full of walkers.  Any route these days could be full of walkers, including the one Aaron wanted them to take.  There is no way you can guarantee you will not run into a herd. 

 

[chlban]

I think a good idea would be to put up another fence further out.

Another solid, opaque, ASZ style fence, not just bars or chain-link.

And write warnings all over it:

 

Contaminated

Everyone Dead

ASZmunchers inside

Danger

Do Not Enter

Tonight Only: The Comedy Stylings of Carrot Top

 

Pile up Rick's old clothing and Daryl's possum guts around the inside of that final perimeter, and I think you'd be pretty much left alone.

Actually I think I would be inclined to go for a second fence, but there is always the problem of supplies. Unless there's a Home Depot nearby.  However, it does seem like they should consider digging a trench since it seems zombies cannot figure out how to get out of the very shallow ones.

Wouldn't' do much to stop bad living people but could be helpful with dead ones and, other than shovels, requires very little in the way of supplies. 

I re-watched last night and caught a few things I had missed that were mentioned here. Notably was the person Carl saw in the house right outside the fence. I had missed that the first time, but that was a clear view of a person. Since said person was gone on second glance and didn't come growling out of the house it wasn't a walker. Interesting.     

 

The other thing I noticed and still don't understand was Rick waking up on the floor right after the scene where he was out walking at night and ran into Pete. Was he dreaming? Did that whole conversation with Michonne  and the walk actually happen or did he dream it?

 

I totally missed the waking up scene the first time.

[shanndee]

Argh! I hate that I haven't been able to post until now (when everything has already been discussed!)

 

Anyway, my love/hate relationship with Rick is back on track. I have been completely neutral about him for quite some time now, but his punching an unarmed, bound captive into unconsciousness coupled with his decision to drive down an uncleared highway put me back on the "it is fun to hate this self righteous character" train!  

 

Count me in the group that thinks it wouldn't be unreasonable if people from the outside viewed our group as not much different than those in  Woodbury or Terminus. They are scary, dangerous, tactical survivors. Rick has already expressed that he is willing to "take" the ASZ if it will be better for his people. CDB may well be the "danger" this season!

 

I loved this episode...I will have to watch it again...

[morgankobi]

The other thing I noticed and still don't understand was Rick waking up on the floor right after the scene where he was out walking at night and ran into Pete. Was he dreaming? Did that whole conversation with Michonne  and the walk actually happen or did he dream it?

 

 

I'm not sure about it either, but my take is he really did meet the husband, but later he woke from a dream anxious/paranoid because he realized something. It can definitely be argued either way, as the editing is weird, but I don't think it was meant to be a dream.

Side note, I don't think the husband is Pete. Pete is the doctor who can maybe fix Noah's leg.

Edited March 4, 2015 by morgankobi

[chlban]

What would happen in this quiet community if someone, say one of those elderly folks, passed away in the middle of the night?

I think this may be the biggest problem I have with this Utopia. We are left to believe that there were apparently so many corpses reanimating around the country that most of the population was subsequently bitten, infected, etc. That the government fell, the military and the CDC were unable to contain it. Yet, here in the ASZ it's all good? Entire families left intact?

 

So what happens when someone dies? Do they even know about the brain thing? If so, how do they know? 

 

I have to remind myself that the show is about a Zombie Apocalypse, so a good deal reality needs to be suspended, but when it directly conflicts with the overall storyline, I do have to wonder. Especially when Deanna talks about not seeing anyone outside the community, living or dead, in a long time, yet upon arrival Sasha dispatches a Walker virtually at that gate that they seem so lax about leaving open? 

[Boofish]

Argh! I hate that I haven't been able to post until now (when everything has already been discussed!)

 

Anyway, my love/hate relationship with Rick is back on track. I have been completely neutral about him for quite some time now, but his punching an unarmed, bound captive into unconsciousness coupled with his decision to drive down an uncleared highway put me back on the "it is fun to hate this self righteous character" train!  

 

Count me in the group that thinks it wouldn't be unreasonable if people from the outside viewed our group as not much different than those in  Woodbury or Terminus. They are scary, dangerous, tactical survivors. Rick has already expressed that he is willing to "take" the ASZ if it will be better for his people. CDB may well be the "danger" this season!

 

I loved this episode...I will have to watch it again...

Not to split hairs but I think LL Bean got knocked the ___ out then bound

 

Rick and his group trust no one and I don't blame them. I don't see them as being even close to the evil that was Terminus or Woodbury. Do what they have to survive I see that comparison. But kidnap, rape, torture, feed people to walkers, eat human flesh, etc. I just don't agree. 

[Samx]

Re-watched last night and picked up on things I didn't notice before (that a lot of you have mentioned). One big thing I don't think registered on my first watch was that the ominous bad-guy/danger pulsing music started playing when Rick made his "We'll just take this place" comment. That pulsing music is cued up every time something dangerous or sinister is about to happen/is happening. They started using that music in S3 with the Governor storyline, such as when the Gov first tried to invade the prison (and admittedly, that pulsing made that scene scarier than it was). I think the music cue is a hint that Rick and CDB are "the danger" as people have suggested.

[ghoulina]

I didn't laugh quite as much this week:

http://m.imgur.com/a/kKWns (Photo recap)

 

I agree, wasn't quite as funny. But still good. My favorite was Daryl's internet speak - IDK, TBH, WTF. I kept picturing him talking in a high-pitched, valley girl accent.

 

. I think the music cue is a hint that Rick and CDB are "the danger" as people have suggested.

 

They are the ones that knock. 

[Bruinsfan]

Clicking on the map, I saw 12 houses, one building that could be either a smaller house or outbuilding and a large block of stacked townhouses. The number of gates (4!) is disturbing, especially since they have roads leading straight to them, seemingly unobstructed, which makes it possible to breach them by ramming with a heavy vehicle. The bracing on the outside (WTF) looks insufficient to keep them up if enough force is brought to bear on them.

I just don't understand the architecture at all. Putting aside the handy ramps for living raiders to scale, why the hell would you put support buttresses outside a wall on the same side as any expected pressure that would be trying to knock the wall down? Unless there was some pre-existing foundation that the beams are set into, I just don't see how that makes sense.

[AngelaHunter]

Aaron told them "Don't take Route X, it's full of walkers"

 

Actually, he said, "We've cleared route 16," and told Rick his idea of the other road was a bad one. He didn't say what they'd cleared it of, so it could have been debris, wrecked cars, fallen trees, etc.

 

It's kind of hard to fault Rick's paranoia at this point. I mean, how long has it been since they barely escaped being slaughtered and slathered with barbeque sauce?

[Pete Martell]

Not to split hairs but I think LL Bean got knocked the ___ out then bound

 

Rick and his group trust no one and I don't blame them. I don't see them as being even close to the evil that was Terminus or Woodbury. Do what they have to survive I see that comparison. But kidnap, rape, torture, feed people to walkers, eat human flesh, etc. I just don't agree. 

 

I think it could be a slippery slope, but at this point I don't think he's on that level either. It's easy to forget just how truly heinous The Governor was even before he supposedly "snapped" after he lost walker Penny and an eye. He gunned down a decent group of soldiers just to make sure they wouldn't ever be a threat to him. He nearly raped Maggie. 

 

I feel like we're supposed to be ambiguous about Rick, and we're supposed to see a split in the group, but I don't think they're evil.

 

One of the reasons I don't agree with people who talk about how the group needs a new leader or that Rick is the leader and always makes bad decisions is that I don't believe this group has one true leader anymore. This isn't like the end of season 2 where most of the group was in need of guidance and reeling from the multiple betrayals of the farm. This is a large, very disparate group, with many people who have their own minds and their own complex intertwined relationships independent of Rick.

 

I think Michonne and Glenn and probably Tara and Maggie and Gabriel wouldn't support some type of takeover plan unless they felt there was no choice.

 

As for knocking Aaron out - it may not have been the right decision, but he'd been starving for weeks and here was this perfect man yammering on and on in a highly awkward manner. I wasn't that shocked.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pete Martell

[NoWillToResist]

I'm not talking about emotional closeness, I'm talking about her giving him the eye after she sees him clean-shaven, especially on top of other bits that might be seen as friendship on their own (like putting her hand on top of his) but seem different within the full context (to me anyway).

 

I don't think the show has to have this stuff. They can still write a close bond without it.

 

But couldn't someone objectively think that another person is attractive without wanting to hook up with them? Equally, maybe seeing Rick look all dressed up and clean will spark an interest from Michonne. Time will tell. Maybe they're throwing stuff at the audience and watching the reaction to see whether it would be wise to go in x direction. Perhaps they haven't decided yet (no idea how far ahead they plan/write the eps).

 

 

All they have to do is say in interviews, "It's never going to be more than a close friendship," ask Danai and Andrew to say the same, not write in quasi-romantic moments, and dissuade shipping questions about it on Talking Dead.

That they don't do this, instead choosing to be coy and cute, limits my sympathy for them.

 

But if they say "yeah, we're going to hook them up", isn't that a spoiler? It's not like this is one of those shows where an eventual hookup is obvious (e.g. Castle).

 

Truthfully, I guess I learned by lesson with LOST (whose show-runners can fuck right off for infinity for the IMO utter bullshit they pulled over the years); I watch TWD and that's it. I rarely read or watch anything outside the show itself, so perhaps that explains why my perspective is so different...

Edited March 4, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Anela]

I grew up in the age of Jessica/Jennifer/Katie. I didn't meet another Natalie until I was in college.

It was Jennifer, Laura, Sarah, and a few others, for me. My own name (Angela) was more popular over here, than in England. Mum thought she'd chosen a little-used name for me, but it was popular the year I was born.

 

Older names have been making their way back for a while now. I remember Paul and Jaime Buchman calling their daughter Mabel. :) 

 

That picture of Carol going "oopsy" with the gun,and the side-eye she's getting from everyone made me laugh. 

[candall]

I hated Rick then. His monumental "Look at me! See how I grieve!" guilt theatrics, while his child stood there alone, made me want to punch him.

It was a little bit shocking Rick couldn't pull himself together and nurture his son, but I think that whole boring "mentally unbalanced/ghost phone" storyline was crucial to show Rick's fallible and not Superman.  (Better than someone being chomped due to poor decision-making.)

 

I just watched those eps recently and Carl, no matter what else he was feeling and suffering, didn't need to feel guilty that he failed his mother when her need was most profound.  Rick was deliberately being a jerk to her at the end--double whammy.  It's the guilt that will break you.  See, Michonne.

 

Question:  I didn't hear--did Carol really reference "The Junior League"?  One toke over the line sweet jesus.

Edited March 4, 2015 by candall

[Yolapukka]

 

There's an emotional intimacy and honesty there with Rick and Michonne that is very different to many of their relationships with other people, which the show acknowledges by winking and nodding in interviews about their relationship. I think they know the type of response they'll get with bits like her reaction, and I'd rather they just cut them out and focus more on a totally platonic relationship if they aren't going to go anywhere with it.

 

these days, it seems like TPTB can't just let their story unfold without being accused of baiting fans with one thing or another. I find myself torn on this because, yeah, no one likes to be strung along just to keep ratings up but on the other hand...what if they are considering x relationship? Do they have to tell the fans this to stop the complaining?

........ Just look at the Bethyl drama (or better yet, don't).  ;)

 

I enjoy Rick and Michonne as characters, I'd be happy to see them paired, but my enjoyment of the show would not be diminished if the show went elsewhere, unless it happened to be with other characters I didn't care for, however I'd get over it. There is much to base shipping on with them and a lot of reasons the show might not go there or not go there soon.  I don't feel teased if we get moments where they actually acknowledge each other as physically attractive sexual beings. We never saw anything along those lines between Daryl and Beth that I could discern no matter what cockeyed pretzel logic I applied to their interactions and yet their was a camp of fans that went bat-shit over the possibility of a pairing. I really don't care if an arguably flirtatious moment will evoke a bad response from some fans pro or con. It adds to the richness of their characterizations for me and I'd rather not lose moments like that because it turns out to be misleading as per indicating any particular story. Some fans are going to be baited no matter what.

[AngelaHunter]

http://m.imgur.com/a/kKWns (Photo recap)

 

My favorite:

 

Rick: "People having fun? Not on my watch!"

[Pete Martell]

I agree about Daryl and Beth in what we saw onscreen, but that's another case where interviews and Talking Dead tipped the scales and I felt like fans were baited.

 

It's not that I demand totally platonic behavior from all relationships that will not become romantic. You can flirt and have fun without getting together for a romp or for a wedding ring. It's just the dynamics and the characters and the fan response that make this volatile for me, and is why some of this stuff makes me uneasy. Michonne is one of the best parts of the show for me, and I feel like she's a very unique character; I don't want to see her degraded by a pseudo-triangle or by shipping wars, and I worry that's what will happen. I don't want it to get to a point where I turn on Talking Dead and see "Team Richonne" vs "Team Ressie" or whatever the hell their name would be. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Yolapukka]

 

I agree about Daryl and Beth in what we saw onscreen, but that's another case where interviews and Talking Dead tipped the scales and I felt like fans were baited.

 

From what I remember of interviews, Norman was openly disgusted by the idea of a pairing while Emily played into it somewhat. Anyone else seemed to give non-answers. I don't want to be spoiled so I'd rather the possibility of an empty tease over them shutting something down entirely. Talking Dead is problematic since it's tied to the show and Hardwick does tend get wound up over whatever ship might be tied to a particular show or guest and it's annoying. Some of his theories on how a particular non-romantic storyline might play out tend to be a bit crack-pot too, so I tend to see his frantic yapping as indicative of nothing the show is actually trying to promote other than itself. I think he's supposed to be more the voice of fans than the show itself, which may be why he gets so wound up about shipping potential. I wish he'd stop.

Edited March 4, 2015 by yuggapukka

[NoWillToResist]

I agree about Daryl and Beth in what we saw onscreen, but that's another case where interviews and Talking Dead tipped the scales and I felt like fans were baited.

 

It's not that I demand totally platonic behavior from all relationships that will not become romantic. You can flirt and have fun without getting together for a romp or for a wedding ring. It's just the dynamics and the characters and the fan response that make this volatile for me, and is why some of this stuff makes me uneasy.

 

In light of all this, I think I've made the right decision to just take the show at face value and basically ignore everything else. :)  Hyping a show or a storyline or a potential hookup are all part of the business of getting people to tune in. When I can disconnect from all that PR bullshit, I'm a much happier viewer. I don't have any expectations, either for who will fuck whom, or who will die. I am simply taking a step back, and taking it as it comes. It's a remarkably refreshing way to watch a show, I must admit! :D

 

I truly wonder what my feelings on LOST would have been had I simply watched the show and didn't pay any attention to anything outside of it. I'm sure I'd still be puzzled by a lot of their choices and generally let down, but I don't think I'd have the same level of rage that I *still* have over that show.

 

 

I didn't laugh quite as much this week:

http://m.imgur.com/a/kKWns (Photo recap)

 

I've barely started, and already I'm howling. The bits with Carol "Bitch, you think these walls are keeping the danger out, but they're keeping me in" and "when do we get to kill people?" were frigging hilarious!!

Edited March 4, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Boofish]

I see Rick as flawed and unreasonable but not evil. He has helped more people than he has hurt. The fact that he did not immediately order someone to throat punch Tara will always give him bonus points in my book. 

[shanndee]

Not to split hairs but I think LL Bean got knocked the ___ out then bound

 

Rick and his group trust no one and I don't blame them. I don't see them as being even close to the evil that was Terminus or Woodbury. Do what they have to survive I see that comparison. But kidnap, rape, torture, feed people to walkers, eat human flesh, etc. I just don't agree. 

 

Fair enough about LL Bean, but he was still unarmed and surrounded by the rest of our group. He posed no immediate threat.

 

I don't blame them either, the groups they have encountered have been monstrous. However, in their current state of exhaustion and near starvation I think it would be easy to step over the line and become dangerous themselves. They know they are good people, they protect their own, they see a town being poorly run and they...take it? It is a slippery slope, and it raises interesting questions. I kind of hope the show runners are brave enough to explore it a little.

 

Just a little! :-)

[Boofish]

I don't blame them either, the groups they have encountered have been monstrous. However, in their current state of exhaustion and near starvation I think it would be easy to step over the line and become dangerous themselves. They know they are good people, they protect their own, they see a town being poorly run and they...take it? It is a slippery slope, and it raises interesting questions. I kind of hope the show runners are brave enough to explore it a little.

 

Just a little! :-)

I think he means take it over as in leadership etc. I just don't see Rick telling women, the elderly and a bunch of kids to beat it nor making their lives hell for his own pleasure

 

I think Michonne was happy to see Ricks face since she was the first one to hand him a razor back at the prison and tell him "his face was losing the war" Don't think that look was anything romantic

[SimoneS]

I have been wondering if there is someone with a gun hiding in the bell tower just in case Rick and his people turn out to be bad.

[Samx]

I think Michonne was happy to see Ricks face since she was the first one to hand him a razor back at the prison and tell him "his face was losing the war" Don't think that look was anything romantic

 

I forgot about that. As someone who is open to Richonne (but not dying for it - I'm okay with BFFs), I didn't get romantic vibes from her look but saw it as more of an appreciation thing. I think Michonne has an affectionate side to her that we haven't seen on full display. I think she'd react the same way if it was Daryl or Glenn.

[mandolin]

I think, in that scene, it's more Rick's look at her that gives me pause. He turns and kind of opens his mouth. ("Look at me! I'm sexy!") Ha. Maybe I'm reading more into it than intended. 

 

I just googled because everything is on the internet, and this is the look I mean:

Edited March 4, 2015 by mandolin

[AngelaHunter]

In light of all this, I think I've made the right decision to just take the show at face value and basically ignore everything else. :)  Hyping a show or a storyline or a potential hookup are all part of the business of getting people to tune in. When I can disconnect from all that PR bullshit, I'm a much happier viewer. I don't have any expectations, either for who will fuck whom, or who will die. I am simply taking a step back, and taking it as it comes. It's a remarkably refreshing way to watch a show, I must admit! :D

 

Exactly what I do. I don't even watch previews or interviews, haven't seen any of the "PR bullshit", have no wish to and couldn't care less who hooks up.

[Ottis]

One big thing I don't think registered on my first watch was that the ominous bad-guy/danger pulsing music started playing when Rick made his "We'll just take this place" comment. That pulsing music is cued up every time something dangerous or sinister is about to happen/is happening. They started using that music in S3 with the Governor storyline

 

 

Thank you for mentioning that. I thought I heard that music starting, but it didn't become louder and I assumed it was just me. I read it a little differently, because I first thought I heard it before Rick said they would just take this place, so I wondered if it was a cue that Alexandria itself is another crucible regardless of what Rick & team choose to do.

[mandolin]

The music reminded me of the "this isn't a democracy" music, but could be that was just the feeling I got from it.

[NoWillToResist]

I think, in that scene, it's more Rick's look at her that gives me pause. He turns and kind of opens his mouth. ("Look at me! I'm sexy!") Ha. Maybe I'm reading more into it than intended. 

 

I just googled because everything is on the internet, and this is the look I mean:

 

Is it just me or does he look like the love child of Viggo Mortensen and Aidan Quinn in this shot?

 

I don't see smolder; I see awkward/uncomfortable, with a hint of residual shame for how far he let himself go before. Like, he's suddenly aware that people can now see his face again. :D

 

I honestly find it fascinating how people see one thing in so many different ways. Humanity is amazing and weird.

Edited March 4, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[kj4ever]

Thank you for mentioning that. I thought I heard that music starting, but it didn't become louder and I assumed it was just me. I read it a little differently, because I first thought I heard it before Rick said they would just take this place, so I wondered if it was a cue that Alexandria itself is another crucible regardless of what Rick & team choose to do.

I heard it too and it reminded me of a subtle Gov. music, like Rick is a baby Gov right now...lol

[Pete Martell]

It comes across to me as vulnerability. Michonne never saw the "pure" or "good" Rick of the first season (or parts of the second). He never let her see that man. Someone like Michonne would not have been a part of Rick's world in those days, or pre-ZA - Shane would have loathed her, and I have a feeling Lori wouldn't have been a huge fan either. 

 

He's not that man anymore, even with a shave and a trim, but I can see him being frightened of how she would now see him when he was wearing his "normal" mask, the face of law and order and the ideal.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Pete Martell

[madam magpie]

I honestly find it fascinating how people see one thing in so many different ways. Humanity is amazing and weird.

 

I tend to think that most people see what they want to see or what fits their own story. It's super interesting!

 

I don't find Rick to be a bad or even unreasonable leader. I think he's paranoid and overly cautious and willing to kill "them" rather than sacrifice his group/family for kindness. But under the circumstances, that's pretty smart, actually. No one HAS to follow Rick...except Carl and Judith, I guess. Glenn, Maggie, Michonne, Carol, Abraham, etc. are free to go if they want to. They choose to stick with him because they see safety and community there. Maybe someday they'll find a situation where they see more safety and they'll choose that. But just because Rick is willing to do things the audience might question in order to keep his group alive doesn't mean he's anything like the Governor or Terminus crowd. Rick would never threaten to rape someone to try to get information or obedience out of her. Sure, he smacked Aaron on the head and knocked him out so he could be tied up. So what? It's a dangerous world; he was just being cautious. The kind of pleasure the Governor got out of torturing people is a level of crazy that Rick just doesn't have.

 

As for the sex, I don't know. Even once everyone cleaned up, pregnancy would remain a huge worry for me. I know we've seen Maggie/Glenn and Abraham/Rosita (or Tara?) get it on in the past, but it doesn't surprise me at all that they aren't all jumping each other's bones. Another baby isn't something they're prepared to handle, and I worry about that every time any sex happens.

 

As for whether or not Alexandria is what it appears, I'm really torn. On the one hand, I don't trust anyone new on this show. On the other, the odds are bound to be in our favor at this point. I also sort of wonder if Alexandria compares to the fleet in Battlestar Galactica, but from a different perspective. Most of the random background people on the ships were clueless, and I can't help but wonder what it would look like to someone on the outside. Maybe Roslin wouldn't have played her whole hand at first, maybe she wouldn't have given away Adama's fire power. etc. But they were basically good (some crazies aside) and genuinely trying to survive, settle down, and continue the species. So I really hope we find out that there's a sniper in the bell tower and more to this town than just ANOTHER bunch of psychos along the road. That said, if they're not, I'm with Rick. I want our guys to take it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by madam magpie

[NoWillToResist]

It comes across to me as vulnerability. .

 

Yes! There's almost an undercurrent of nervousness, to me.

[CletusMusashi]

He's supposed to be the face of order, yes, but how much "law" will play into that remains to be seen.

I kind of hope next week we see CDB reading through an enormous pile of ASZ laws trying to memorize and make sense out of them all.

But that means the writers would have to figure that out as well, so I'm thinking Rick'll be playing not just a cop. but a lawmaker as well.

"Death penalty for wandering into the woods? What are talking about? Coral does it all the time!"

"My friends can't carry assault rifles into City Hall? Screw that!"

"Daylight savings?" BANG! "Not in my town."

By the way, I fully support him on that last one.

[mandolin]

Yes! There's almost an undercurrent of nervousness, to me.

Yes; that's why I felt he was almost seeking approval, but shy about it.

Eta: but after that sashay he did into ASZ ("Good thang we're here"), he has to know he's got a little game, beard or no. :p

Edited March 4, 2015 by mandolin