S04.E13: Darkness On The Edge Of Town

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't actually remember Bell's specific words when kicking him out, but didn't they include some variation on "don't come back"? In which case, how can he do so at all? And I know she said something about never hurting any of them (possibly anyone at all?) ever again, so how will they get around that when he inevitably does hurt someone?

 

I don't know about the "don't come back", but as to the latter - not hurting them, maybe that's why he needs Cruella, Ursula and Mal.

[YaddaYadda]

It was Rumple who told Belle that if he left, he would not be able to come back.  There was nothing said about him not hurting anyone since Belle thinks he's gone forever anyway, so there was really no need for that provision.

[kingshearte]

Really? I was sure she said something to that effect. But as I've only watched it once and won't likely again for a while at least, I'll take your word on it.

[Shanna Marie]

And Emma giving all the credit to Regina when Belle and Hook have done all the work is just ridiculous, and another example of the writers have with her.

That really bugged me. It also irked me back in season 3, but there it made some kind of sense, in that most of the town didn't yet know that Regina had become good, so they needed to pave the way a bit, and she's still a little volatile, so they needed to placate her (though it doesn't say much for your character if other characters have to treat her like a toddler who's constantly on the verge of a tantrum). I suppose the same thing might apply to Hook, but few people in town had interacted with him, and although he was prone to violence, he doesn't have the power to destroy an entire civilization if he's mad because someone gives him a mean look, and he'd confessed to falling in love with Emma, so I guess they figured he'd be on his best behavior. But here, giving Regina the credit makes the opposite of sense. This was where they might have needed to point out that Hook just spent six weeks trying desperately to find a solution because he felt really bad about hatting them, since the last thing they saw was him hatting them and they might not have been too happy to see him the moment they came out of the hat -- so not so much about praising him as about reassuring them that it was okay, he was trying to help them.

 

And why did they need Regina to do the spell anyway? Didn't we just have a whole arc about Emma coming to terms with her magic and getting control over it? Why not have her do the spell?

 

The scroll was just too convenient and eliminated any tension about leaving Storybrooke.

That plus the fact that there's apparently Internet and telephone connections between Storybrooke and the outside world totally ruins all the "I can't have my happy ending because Robin had to leave" drama. Robin had a cell phone, so he and Regina could have stayed in touch. She could have visited him. They could have arranged for him to come to the town line and get thrown the scroll so he could have visited her. He could have got Marian settled in the outside world and then returned for good and used the scroll to occasionally visit Roland. So she's doing all this whining and this frantic project to get her happy ending when she had this ability all along.

 

In profile, Belle's lashes looked like they were about an inch long, which is just ridiculous. I actually had to rewind the entire scene and rewatch because the first time around, I couldn't pay attention to anything but those crazy fake lashes.

I hope she doesn't get something in her eye that causes her to blink a lot or she'll start a hurricane that will devastate the other side of the world.

[Curio]

Robin had a cell phone, so he and Regina could have stayed in touch.

Which begs the question: why didn't they stay in touch? When Emma asked Regina if she'd heard from Robin, the way it was phrased made it seem like Regina might have sent out an email or text to him but never heard back. If Belle can easily talk with an "Oxford Professor," there's no excuse why Robin and Regina couldn't have kept up an online/phone relationship while she plotted a way to get back with him permanently. Either Robin is purposely not talking to her, he got himself into some trouble in the real world and has no access to Internet, or Regina and Robin are really stupid and don't know how to do a long distance relationship. (Or the writers didn't think this far ahead.)

Edited March 3, 2015 by Curio

[Mitch]

But Robin never really had a cell phone did he? Since he was only here during the Zelena/Ice Queen reign of terror and he was living out in the woods, would he even know how to use one? 

 

I did think it was odd that the world does not know that Storybrooke exists (which begs the question, why didnt the curse just drop them all into a medieval type town with their old clothes but no memories and with Regina stil in charge..why the need for mimiking out world when our world??) but they still have internet and phones and who exactly is their service provider? But then, its the same as S1 with State Troopers coming to take H & G away and Henry cathing a "bus," from town and Mary Margaret having a credit card.  Sighhhh, these writers.

[jhlipton]

Well our heroes aren't exactly known for their high IQs and on a good day, they share a brain, so nothing really unexpected.  You know what could have helped?  If Snowing had said something about why they were so against having those two cross the town line.

 

They didn't even ask "Why are you here?".  Most countries have a emigration form, or at the very least visas and passports ("What is the nature of your visit?"   The writers are dunderheads, which forces the characters to be.

 

I just about choked when she said "Cruella DeVil? No one calls me that here." I was all "Really? Have you looked in a mirror lately? If your name were Mary Sunshine, I'm pretty sure people would still call you Cruella DeVil."

Plus -- she's driving a car with De Vil on the front!

[Curio]

But Robin never really had a cell phone did he? Since he was only here during the Zelena/Ice Queen reign of terror and he was living out in the woods, would he even know how to use one?

 

I thought Robin had a cellphone (or was it Will's?) in that episode where he called and interrupted Snow and Regina's heart-to-heart about sleeping with married men? But even if he didn't have a cell phone when he left Storybrooke, it's insanely easy to purchase a cheap cell phone without having to go through a big provider like at&t. Don't they sell cell phones in vending machines now? Regina could have just given him directions on how to obtain one when she gave him the money. And if all of that didn't work, I'm pretty sure payphones still exist somewhere. Hell, he's a thief, why not just steal someone's cell phone if he really wanted to talk to Regina? He could go to a public library and use the Internet to send an email. Basically, the way the writers established how easy it is to communicate with the outside world in this episode, Robin and Regina's "epic love" for each other seems pretty un-epic.

 

Compare them to Belle and Rumple who are on the worst terms possible and even they have managed to communicate with each other. Granted, Belle had no idea she was talking with her exiled husband, but you at least got the sense that Rumple still is in love with Belle and wanted to talk with her, even though he was manipulating her in the process. Again.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Curio

[iMonrey]

 

I love how mixed the reception has been for this episode. Some people liked it, others thought it was just mediocre, and others thought it was absolutely dreadful.

 

It's always been this way, because if you don't put much thought into the episode it's a pleasant enough way to spend an hour. But as soon as you start picking at it, it all falls apart. And that's just the hallmark of sloppy writing. Needlessly sloppy writing.

 

For example, I was apparently not alone in wondering why Maleficent didn't simply transform into a dragon to battle the Chernabog, especially after Rumpel revealed that he intended to leave them trapped there with it. Now, we all know the issue was probably a budgetary one, but there's really no excuse - beyond sheer laziness - for the writers not to address this somehow in the dialogue, since they made a major plot point out of Maleficent turning into a dragon during Season 1. Something as simple as "Oh, shoot, my dragon powers don't work on Tuesdays." You know, give us anything, throw us a bone here, don't just ignore such an important character trait because it either means a.) you forgot about it or b.) you hope your audience forgot about it. Neither of those options is a selling point.

[kennyab]

Michael Socha is still in the credits but he is also under contract, so his name has to appear in the credits.  They should've put him as recurring.  It would have made so much more sense than tying a whole year's salary up.

 

I have to think they have big plans for him later in this season and didn't want to risk scheduling problems (the scuttled plans with Lindsay Crouse on Buffy come to mind). Perhaps the Sorcerer/Author plot is going to delve into how the different worlds are tied together and bring Wonderland back into the mix. Otherwise, yeah, bone-headed move, no matter how charming Socha can be.

[Delphi]

Finally finished me rewatchand I wasn't as impressed the second time around, because the first time I was just truly happy that it was back on.

 

On the one hand I loved the wardrobe for the first time in  a long while.  Snow and Belle looked good.  Even Emma and Regina.  Every one looked good....except Ursula in the Enchanted Forest.  Who looks like a very bad drag queen and not in the fantastic Evil Queen kind of way.

I loved Belle and Hook's conversation.  that he pointed out that Rumple did love her, even if he's a horrible person is a nice touch.

I'm sure I'm the miniority but I loved Mal and I think her dress would be very nice without the headpiece.

Plus the end with Rumple waltzing into town changing his clothes and throwing his cane was just such a BAMF move and I loved it.  Robert seemed to be having fun.

 

I don't even mind that Regina is mayor again...because really, besides being a ruler in the forest did Snow really have the qualifications to run the town?  Regina was programmed with that knowledge and Snow got a teacher download.  Makes sense.

On the other hand they story had major issues.

i can take a lot of retconning, especially since i have no idea what could have been altered with Emma's time trip last year.  But Rumple needs to be the one to make the curse, not steal it from the Sorcerer or whatever.  It might actually ruin the show for me.

I loved Snow being a BAMF as well but i don't see how her and Charming can have a past with the new girls in town unless Snow sought out Ursula after meeting Ariel.

I really think that for such a pure force of undiluted evil in the Disney canon that Chernabog should have been more than a plot device, though he looked cool.

 

I'm trying to get on board with the whole find the author plot but it is just...meh....and makes no sense and is meh...and stupid.

 

I like Cruella enough...but her presence is jarring to me.  It takes me out of the story more than the fake eyelashes.

 

The biggest thing that made me mad is that no one...like...ever..gives Belle and fucking credit.  This woman has had a terrible life and she's still helping you idiots.  She did all the research for the unhatting she literally does all the research for everything in this town. It's like in Harry Potter when everyone is calling Harry a hero when he would literally be dead if Hermione wasn't there.  Being a librarian is really a thankless job.

[stealinghome]

But even if he didn't have a cell phone when he left Storybrooke, it's insanely easy to purchase a cheap cell phone without having to go through a big provider like at&t. Don't they sell cell phones in vending machines now? Regina could have just given him directions on how to obtain one when she gave him the money. And if all of that didn't work, I'm pretty sure payphones still exist somewhere. Hell, he's a thief, why not just steal someone's cell phone if he really wanted to talk to Regina? He could go to a public library and use the Internet to send an email. Basically, the way the writers established how easy it is to communicate with the outside world in this episode, Robin and Regina's "epic love" for each other seems pretty un-epic.

So much this. If Robin has even 1/8th of a brain (which, believe me, I do seriously question), it really should not be that hard for him to acquire a cell phone and at least talk to Regina. If Regina has even 1/8th of a brain (which I also seriously question), she too should have realized this. (But then, if she had 1/8th of a brain, Regina also wouldn't be chasing "The Author" in the first place...man, I don't even like Regina, but they've made her into such a shadow of her S1 self it's frankly sad.)

 

It's just so apparent at this point that the writers don't think more than 5 minutes ahead, and then expect the audience  to just roll with whatever ridiculous self-contradictory ideas they have for the sake of ~drama. The thing is, the show is so poorly written/unentertaining these days--and it expects us to shut our brains off far too frequently--for me to give them that kind of pass.

 

Re: Socha, someone suggested a while ago that he has some sort of contract with ABC that made it cheaper for ABC to, once Wonderland failed, move him to the parent show rather than just cut him loose. At this point, I have to think that financial considerations were at least a big part of his move here, because the cast is bloated as it is and he's obviously not a priority for them.

Edited March 3, 2015 by stealinghome

[RadioGirl27]

 

I don't even mind that Regina is mayor again...because really, besides being a ruler in the forest did Snow really have the qualifications to run the town?  Regina was programmed with that knowledge and Snow got a teacher download.  Makes sense.

I wouldn't mind it if they hadn't made the "Snow is now the Mayor" such a big plot point in 4A. I mean, it was Snow's main arc in the first half of the season, and now it's totally pointless.

[kili]

Either Robin is purposely not talking to her, he got himself into some trouble in the real world and has no access to Internet, or Regina and Robin are really stupid and don't know how to do a long distance relationship. (Or the writers didn't think this far ahead.)

 

Or, given how he behaved last time he "broke up" with Regina, Robin is lying passed out in a bar.

 

If he ever sobers up, Mariane might let him use her phone (she probably already has a job, a house, joined the PTA and volunteers with Roland on the weekend at the local soup kitchen- he hands out the cookies and is beloved by the other volunteers and the customers alike).

[Rumsy4]

Regina wanted a clean break from Robin. Considering they all (conveniently) forgot about Ingrid's Scroll, it did not seem likely to find a regular way to cross back and forth from the Real World to Storybrooke. Marian had no Curse memories--it's not like she could have adjusted to living in the Land Without Magic right away. If Robin was living in the same house as Marian (and lbr, they could not afford to pay the rent for two), it would be awkward to have a long-distance phone/internet relationship with Regina. It makes sense for Robin to not contact Regina and probe the wound. However, knowing how much of a dip-head he is, he's probably mooning over Regina and making life miserable for him and Marian anyway.

[daxx]

deleted post due to memory loss. lol

I forgot they already had the scroll.

Edited March 3, 2015 by daxx

[Dani-Ellie]

Hell, I'm just happy they used a magical object already in play rather than finding something random and convoluted hidden in Rumple's shop.

[KingOfHearts]

Seems like a pretty sloppy Sorcerer.

 

"I'll just leave my powerful hat no one should touch laying on my end table".

"I'll put an old man in a cottage to protect my hat. Then I'll put a spell that can be broken by a teardrop for extra measure."

"I'll just leave this Arendelle portal in my ballroom."
"I'll make the scroll multi-use so Ingrid can break all the cloaking spells she wants."

"I never make deals and I'm super powerful, but I need to make a deal with Ingrid because she's just too crafty for me."

 

Storybrooke desperately needs some sort of border patrol. Get Grumpy at the town line asking for papers and if they brought any fruit. Then when a villain gets a green card, he'll just throw the scroll over and kindly ask for it back once they get in. He could be the doorman from the Emerald City.

Edited March 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

If Robin was living in the same house as Marian (and lbr, they could not afford to pay the rent for two), it would be awkward to have a long-distance phone/internet relationship with Regina. It makes sense for Robin to not contact Regina and probe the wound.

But this is the man who told Regina he had to live up to his marriage vows, then kept coming back to Regina while his wife was under a spell he might have been able to break with True Love's Kiss if he could have focused on his wife and remembered his love for her, and who was spurred to go sleep with Regina while his wife was under a deadly spell by memories of what his wife had given up to be with him and how his wife had been such a positive influence on his life. I'm surprised he made it more than a hundred yards without calling Regina to schedule their first meet-up tryst. We saw him using a cell phone in Storybrooke, and Rumple's cell phone called Regina's from across the town line. I can't imagine Robin not sneaking off to huddle on the back porch or under the stairs to furtively call Regina while Marian and Roland were off elsewhere. And if Regina has the scroll that would allow her or Robin back in town, then them not being able to be together at all is no longer "fate" or some Author keeping her from having a happy ending. It's her choice to not use the options available to her.

[orza]

Robin and Regina are not in touch because they broke up. Regina sent Robin away and said it was over. It's pretty normal to cut ties after a bad breakup. Maintaining contact and trying to be friends with an ex one is still in love with after a painful breakup is not healthy and prevents one from moving on. Robin was back together with his wife til death do they part so Regina could never be more than the other woman he was cheating on his wife with.

Edited March 3, 2015 by orzamonium

[stealinghome]

Robin was back together with his wife til death do they part so Regina could never be more than the other woman he was cheating on his wife with.

Not really, though. Robin was going to drop Marian like a hot potato in 3x11 before the ice heart sliver thing meant he "had" to leave town with Marian. But at that point, all the parties involved knew that Robin would have chosen Regina over Marian. So I'm not sure why, if the Brain Trust had bothered to remember the scroll in 3x11, Robin and Regina and Marian couldn't have come to an arrangement wherein he and Marian co-parented and lived together in the real world but he was romantically involved with Regina and she came to visit him, or he her, regularly. They're all adults (theoretically), and Marian had/has been far more gracious than either Robin or Regina could ever have expected about the whole thing. An arrangement like that could easily have worked. (Hell, I'm not sure why Regina, if she was so desperate to be with Robin, couldn't just move to the real world with them and split Henry custody if Emma wanted to stay in Storybrooke. Goodness knows she's far better equipped for the real world than either Robin or Marian.)

 

Basically, it was far too easy for the Queens+Rumpel to get into Storybrooke in 3x12, and thus it retroactively makes Regina and Robin look like the world's biggest idiots for assuming that their Romantic Overwrought Goodbye was really forever when a) there was an easy, easy, EASY way for him to come back and b) apparently Regina was going to immediately start planning to bring him back, as we saw in this episode (because then it's not really goodbye forever). And as it is, I'm not sure why the lightbulb hasn't clicked for Regina that she can give Robin the scroll...more of Regina's rapidly shrinking IQ at play.

 

The core problem is that the writers keep trying to manufacture angst to make Regina and Robin look like Star-Crossed Lovers That You Totally Should Root For. Except they're such bad writers that all they've done is make both Regina and Robin look like huge morons, and made Robin the world's biggest asshat to boot. The Outlaw Queen "story" can't even touch the Snowing love story from S1.

Edited March 3, 2015 by stealinghome

[coops]

In regards to the dumbness of letting Ursula and Cruella in thee show kind of made it seem like the reason they did thst was because they didnt think they would be much of a threat even if they were up to no good. I can kind of buy this because Emma and co didnt know that Rumple was with them or that they were planning to bring back Maleficent but its kind of a retcon as Ursula was a sea goddess last time we saw her not a 'sea witch'. As for keeping the scroll they could have asked for it back but perhaps Rumple having known they would use the scroll to let them in gave them a duplicate one that they switched right after they drove in. They could have offered the fake scroll back as 'proof' of their changed ways then at least the heros, while still tricked, could have kept from coming across as total idiots.

Edited March 3, 2015 by coops

[Shanna Marie]

Seems like a pretty sloppy Sorcerer.

I'm starting to wonder if Rumple is being played the way he plays others. Just as he conned Regina into casting the curse and making her think it was her own idea, someone else might be conning him into something by making all these things conveniently available to him -- the curse, the dagger, the hat, etc. -- and knowing that Rumple would use them? I can't yet see what purpose there would be for that. If the Sorcerer could make a portal to our world, would he need the curse? But it is interesting how many of these things just happen to become available to Rumple.

 

Basically, it was far too easy for the Queens+Rumpel to get into Storybrooke in 3x12, and thus it retroactively makes Regina and Robin look like the world's biggest idiots for assuming that their Romantic Overwrought Goodbye was really forever when a) there was an easy, easy, EASY way for him to come back and b) apparently Regina was going to immediately start planning to bring him back, as we saw in this episode (because then it's not really goodbye forever). And as it is, I'm not sure why the lightbulb hasn't clicked for Regina that she can give Robin the scroll...more of Regina's rapidly shrinking IQ at play.

And that brings up the question of what, exactly, Regina plans to demand/ask of the Author if she does find him/her. It's really dangerous to ask a super-powerful being whose motives and agenda aren't entirely clear and who doesn't seem to have been playing fairly with you from the start to give you what you "deserve." You probably won't like that result. It's equally dangerous to ask for a generic "happy ending." You might end up dying from a horrible laughing gas accident while at the dentist or dying of a heart attack during sex. Or worse, asking for an ending of any kind might suggest that you're ready to die now. So is she going to specifically ask to get Robin back? And how does that work? I don't think she'd just ask for him to come back, since she's the one who sent him away in the first place. Is she going to ask for a cure for Marian so the whole family can come back, she can have Robin, and he can have weekend visitation? Well, she could get something like that for herself with the scroll, since it means she could come and go or Robin could come and go. Is she going to ask for some other lover? Then maybe it would help if she quit moping over Robin and got out and met people, maybe used that scroll to visit other places where she isn't known as the Evil Queen. What it boils down to is that she could get for herself just about anything she might ask the Author for.

 

It reminds me of the old joke about the man in a flood seeing the waters rising around his house. An inflatable raft comes by, but he tells them he doesn't need help because he has faith that the Lord will provide. The waters rise more, and he has to go to the second floor. A motorboat comes by and they offer to take him away, but he tells them the Lord will provide. Later, he's had to climb onto the roof, and a helicopter comes by and drops a rope ladder. He tells them no thanks because God will provide for him. Then he drowns, and when he meets God in heaven, he's feeling horribly betrayed and says, "I had such faith in you that you would provide for me, but you let me drown." God tells him, "I sent you a raft, a motorboat and a helicopter. What more did you expect?" So the Author, when confronted about not providing Regina a happy ending, should probably tell her, "I had the fairy use pixie dust to show you your soulmate. How many people get that kind of assurance? But you decided you didn't want him. I let you put his wife in the dungeon, so you could have a second chance with him, but you decided to arrest the Savior and throw her in the next cell -- and you wrapped wire around the eating utensils in your dungeon. Who does that? Then I tried to kill his wife for you, but you sent him away instead. And I made sure you got the scroll that would allow people into town, but you didn't use that. What more do you want from me?"

[KingOfHearts]

Something interesting I noticed on rewatch is that Cruella mentions Maleficent is dead. I wonder how she knew that. It's not a plot hole necessarily, just something else to unravel. Perhaps Maleficent had a fake death earlier in time?

Edited March 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

Taking Robin, Marion and Regina to the Relationships thread.

[txhorns79]

Michael Socha is still in the credits but he is also under contract, so his name has to appear in the credits.  They should've put him as recurring.  It would have made so much more sense than tying a whole year's salary up.

 

I obviously have no idea what is in the guy's contract, but I know other shows (like Parenthood) had deals in place where a main cast member was credited, but was only paid for the episode they actually appeared in, in order to save money.  So he may not being paid for episodes he does not actually appear in.   

 

 

I like Cruella enough...but her presence is jarring to me.  It takes me out of the story more than the fake eyelashes.

 

I enjoy the scenery chewing, but you are right that she doesn't really belong in the Enchanted Forest.  She feels like a very modern character thrown into a medieval setting, but without any acknowledgment that she's out of place.  I wasn't all that impressed with her introduction in the episode.  I mean, it isn't like Malefecent or Ursula are going to be all that threatened by barking dogs.   

Edited March 4, 2015 by txhorns79

[Camera One]

That plus the fact that there's apparently Internet and telephone connections between Storybrooke and the outside world totally ruins all the "I can't have my happy ending because Robin had to leave" drama. Robin had a cell phone, so he and Regina could have stayed in touch. She could have visited him. They could have arranged for him to come to the town line and get thrown the scroll so he could have visited her. He could have got Marian settled in the outside world and then returned for good and used the scroll to occasionally visit Roland. So she's doing all this whining and this frantic project to get her happy ending when she had this ability all along.

 

That is an excellent point.  In hindsight, "Heroes and Villains" was dishonest storytelling, since they made the whole crossing-the-town-line event so final, to the extent that the whole emotional climax of that episode was all based on the fact that Regina and Robin would never communicate and see each other again.  The poor worldbuilding meant that we as an audience had no idea how much communication Storybrooke had with the outside world.

 

And now, since it's convenient, one episode later, they tell us that Belle is sending emails to the brightest minds all around the world, and not only that, a Scroll can allow anyone back into town!  The 3B premiere undid that big gamechanger they had in "Going Home", and this 4B premiere sort of did the same thing, except on a smaller scale.

 

So how did Rumple *think* Emma, Regina, etc. were going to let Cruella and Ursula into Storybrooke if Emma's light-bulb didn't go off and make her think of using the Snow Queen's Scroll?  

Edited March 4, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

They might as well just bring down the cloaking spell. How difficult can it be? I'm surprised they didn't spend any time on that, especially Emma and Regina. But of course they can have ancient incantations having to do with one specific object to let out only a specific kind of creature. Maybe they wanted to keep Gold out, but before that happened I'm surprised Regina didn't even say anything. In fact, why didn't she and Robin arrange a phone call before he left?

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

For a moment there, I thought maybe that Chernabog was a Fairy too, but he just looked hideous.  Since he goes after the Darkest Heart in the room, he has his own heart in the right place.

[KAOS Agent]

How did they even know that the scroll was what let Ingrid into town in the first place? Did they have a heart to heart with Ingrid about the entire Apprentice/hat thing?Obviously not given how Rumpel was almost able to do the whole leave and cleave thing with the dagger. They didn't even know anything about the portal door until Rumpel sent Hook to tell them about it. It makes no sense.

 

Regardless of whether Regina truly meant to end things forever with Robin, she asked him about the money she'd given him and all that. At the very least he would have had a mobile phone and her number/e-mail address in case of emergency. Surely Emma has contacts that she could use to help him out if needed. And now that they've proven Robin/Regina could be together, doesn't that completely negate the idea that some author is the reason they can't be happy together?

[Camera One]

How did they even know that the scroll was what let Ingrid into town in the first place? 

 

Oh good grief.  Excellent question.  We all need to stop *thinking* about the events of this episode so it can all be okay again.  

 

I have a feeling the Scroll is going to spontaneously combust soon, or maybe drop into a deep crevasse of ice until it's needed again.  I wonder if Emma and Regina will suddenly remember next episode that they never got it back from Cruella and Ursula.  Oops.

[Rumsy4]

How did they even know that the scroll was what let Ingrid into town in the first place? Did they have a heart to heart with Ingrid about the entire Apprentice/hat thing?Obviously not given how Rumpel was almost able to do the whole leave and cleave thing with the dagger. They didn't even know anything about the portal door until Rumpel sent Hook to tell them about it. It makes no sense.

 

On that note, how did Rumple know that the Chernabog was trapped in the Hat?

[tennisgurl]

I really can`t believe that they just let Cruella and Ursula drive through all on their own, WITH the magic scroll. I get why they let them in (basically), but there need to be some kind of, I don't know, trial period? Acclimation process? Interview? A "please refrain from being evil while within city limits"workshop? Anything? Just let them into the town? Even if they do mean to turn good (and they don`t, but hypothetically), they could backslide,like Regina has done 46 times. Come on guys!

 

Are we certain that Cruella is from the Enchanted Forest originally? People are flying around the multiverse all the dang time, its possible she ended up there from some other world (one of the possible billions that could be out there). I don't know if they`ll do anything with that (I`m still convinced Hook isn't an EF native either, and that's never really been explored), but its makes more sense that her being from a medieval times style land while driving a bitchin car and all that. 

[Worsel]

On that note, how did Rumple know that the Chernabog was trapped in the Hat?

I assumed he knew the hat's contents after using/working with the hat, and maybe from Ingrid who said she knew about the hat after studying it for a long time.  

[YaddaYadda]

Here's what I find ridiculous with this whole hat thing and that it's you need the Dark One's dagger to be able to do anything with it.

 

Either the Sorcerer has a sick sense of humor where he's thinking let them try while he chuckles from wherever he is or he is the person thing ever.  That hat is a weapon, why would you ever think of creating it to give powerful dark wizards the opportunity to attain ultimate power.

[pcta]

I think I watched this episode to the end but I actually don't remember. Too busy multitasking and . . . Guess I should watch again on Hulu and see if it's more memorable 2nd time around.

[The Cake is a Pie]

Tossing the scroll over the town line is stupid, too. Apparently all you need to do is open the scroll and see the words to see the town. One of them should have stepped over with the scroll and taken Cruella and Ursula over by hand, therefore never letting them get their hands on the thing.

They need to post a bouncer at the town line to escort "guests" into (and force out of) town.

Did they address if the scroll is a lifetime free pass? If you've used it once, can you now travel back and forth, or do you always need to use it each time you cross the line?

[Curio]

Did they address if the scroll is a lifetime free pass? If you've used it once, can you now travel back and forth, or do you always need to use it each time you cross the line?

 

This requires actual world building and setting up magical rules, which these writers are terrible at. I'm sure the scroll will work for as long as it's needed for the plot, until some random contrivance is thrown in and it doesn't work anymore.

[HoodlumSheep]

Something interesting I noticed on rewatch is that Cruella mentions Maleficent is dead. I wonder how she knew that. It's not a plot hole necessarily, just something else to unravel. Perhaps Maleficent had a fake death earlier in time?

News apparently travels fast in the EF. Everyone seemed to find out about Pan's defeat pretty quickly. Maybe Cruella is thinking along the lines of when Regina defeated Mal to get the curse. She could have been in the EF still at that point and heard about it?

Finally watched the ep! It was better than the 4a premiere at least. I enjoy Cruella even though she doesn't quite fit in. Ursula is kind of bland and Mal is also sorta "meh." I've given up on logic for this show, so I still enjoy it for what it is.

Hooray for the Captain Beauty brotp!

Charming's presence was definitely missed for 95% of the episode :(. Snow was kinda awesome at the end with that threat.

[Delphi]

I noticed they actually looked taken aback when Rumple mentioned Emma's dark potential. And I'm like why are you surprised? You don't know this woman.

[Shanna Marie]

On that note, how did Rumple know that the Chernabog was trapped in the Hat?

Was it necessarily trapped in the hat, or did the spell he "translated" for Belle summon it, maybe using the power of the hat as a source? He was basically using the fairy spell as a ruse for the Chernabog spell.

 

Or I guess he could have known the fate of the Chernabog if the Sorcerer or Apprentice had gone to Bald Mountain to deal with the Chernabog.

 

Thinking more about this "potential for darkness" thing. I wonder if it measures the end result or the distance between the current state and the possible end result. "Potential" could be said to be the gap between the way things currently are and the possible result, and it's generally seemed greater if there's a longer way to go. Like, do I have more potential for greatness as a writer if my Great American Novel just needs one more paragraph to be written or if I haven't started writing it at all? With just one paragraph to go, it's more reality than potential. So if you're thinking in those terms, Regina doesn't have that much potential for darkness because she's already been there. We know just how dark she can be. Emma, on the other hand, is a good person who would have to go a long way to be truly dark.

[Mitch]

One would think that Regina would have handed him her own cell phone when she handed him the money to survive out of town. At least give him her number just in case. That's one of my issues with Regina and the show in general. Everything is just so black/white or yes/no. There is no middle ground on much. Regina wants a happy ending so she must find the author now. Regina didn't like Snow's painting in the mayor's office so instead of taking it down and returning it, she burned the freaking thing.

 

 

Yea, but that was almost as funny as watching Rump A Dump throwing his cane and getting new clothes and strutting down Main Street all the while saying he was going to lay low!  Snow's painting was crappy and havent we all wanted to toss a fireball at something hideous like that.

 

But I do see your point and I agree with it. However, I think that is part of them coming from their weird world..there is no middle part..you are either good or bad, a hero and a villain..these people grew up with that and lived their lives as such for generations. Look at Snow and Dimmy....they dont' seem to find a middle ground on anything, The Diva Duo are "villains," but Regina is trusted as she is "Family," even though her redemption is based on how she feels when she gets up in the monring (God help them if Granny runs out of pancake batter.) I THINK that maybe that is the point of this whole Author storyline but really just think its probably bad writing. It would be more interesting if the characters started acting like people from our world with shades of grey and would welcome a return of Mary Margaret and David sneaking around as opposed to Prince Dullard and Snow being so self righteous and cartoony.

 

My big question about this episode is that no one seemed to wonder WHY and HOW Ursula and Cruella were in the LWOM...Regina was just like..."Its the Sea Bitch" (my favorite line of the night) and Princie and Snow arent like, "How the hell did those two get into the real world?"

Edited March 4, 2015 by Mitch

[Delphi]

I like to think that Snow wasn't overly fond of the painting. She has much better bird paraphernalia actually and she put it up to piss Regina off. Head canon forever.

[turbogirlnyc]

Snow's painting was crappy and havent we all wanted to toss a fireball at something hideous like that.

No.

[KingOfHearts]

Snow's painting was crappy and havent we all wanted to toss a fireball at something hideous like that.

I would have been ok just showing Regina taking it down with a smile. The fireball was mean. She just destroyed Snow's property.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[FormerMod-a1]

Right.  What if Snow wants it back.  Regina could just have easily poofed away to Snow's home or something.  It did not go with the decor and I'm fine with her wanting it out of there.

[LadyArcadia]

So, Rumpelstiltskin and Ursula are roommates and she gets mad at him for eating the last of the ramen noodles.

 

Out of all the weird things this show has made me write about, I think this is the best.

[turbogirlnyc]

So, Rumpelstiltskin and Ursula are roommates and she gets mad at him for eating the last of the ramen noodles.

Out of all the weird things this show has made me write about, I think this is the best.

Lol. I thought Ursula had a rather roomy NYC apartment for someone working at the aquarium. Why so stingy with the ramen? /sarcasm Edited March 4, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[orza]

They are not really roommates. Rumple is just mooching off her and not contributing financially to the household.

[Curio]

They are not really roommates. Rumple is just mooching off her and not contributing financially to the household.

 

What are you talking about? That sounds exactly like my roommates in college.