S10.E04: Invites and Ride-Alongside

[bigskygirl]

I would not be surprise if the older girls were riding along with him to prevent the heathen hussies from tempting him.

[leighroda]

Ugh, so I had this on while I was doing homework, do it didn't have my undivided attention, but does jill refer to Derek's mom as "miss Kathy"? First of all, it would be "MRS' Kathy, she's married. Second I have NEVER heard someone refer to an in law like that.

[flyingdi]

I think calling somebody Miss Cathy or Mister Jim is a southern thing. I am not from the South so I could be wrong.

[truthtalk2014]

Ugh, so I had this on while I was doing homework, do it didn't have my undivided attention, but does jill refer to Derek's mom as "miss Kathy"? First of all, it would be "MRS' Kathy, she's married. Second I have NEVER heard someone refer to an in law like that.

Definitely a southern thing.  Miss so and so or Mr. so and so - It's kind of a sign of respect and one of the few things that Jill does that doesn't annoy me.  lol

[msblossom]

Yes, it is Southern thing -- but we don't refer to our in-laws this way. I'd be curious to hear what others in the South call their in-laws and if they refer to them as Miss/Mr. My husband and his family are from the Deep South and I refer to them by their first name or Mom and Dad. ETA: In fact no one in my husband's family refers to their in-laws like Jill does. My husband's parents call their in-laws by their first name and/or Papaw & Mamaw.

Edited March 8, 2015 by msblossom

[leighroda]

Yeah that's what I mean, I'm from the south, so I know people refer to people as "miss" or "mr", I just meant I've never heard someone refer to their in-laws, that's what I think is weird. Now I'm trying to remember how Derek refers to Jim-Bob and Michelle.

Edited March 8, 2015 by leighroda

[Mrsjumbo]

It sounds like more of a little kid thing. I talk that way to my little DS- "say hi to Miss Deb", for example. But if I was talking to an adult I wouldn't put Miss in front of their name.

[msblossom]

I think Anna refers to JB&M by their first name and in general as "Josh's parents". I've never heard her call them Miss Michelle & Mr Jim-Bob. I think Jill just carried over the terminology from courting & engagement to marriage. Sounds odd and too formal to be calling her Miss Cathy now that you're a part of their family.

But then Jill is a giggly 13 year-old.

Edited March 8, 2015 by msblossom

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

She'll probably call Cathy grandma or mom when the baby arrives.

[DangerousMinds]

Expectations ruin relationships? Really Duggar girls? Isn't that what your relationship "book" was filled with? Expectations and requirements of yourselves and your suitor? Expect them to be virgins, expect them to accept chaperones at all times, expect them to be "your Christian choice", expect them to like and love spending all their time with your younger siblings when courting and expect them not to mind Josie spilling milk on you...? Expect him to ask your daddy if he can hold your hand after asking daddy if it's ok to be engaged to you?  Aren't these expectations? They are full of it or they are too blind and brainwashed to recognize contradiction after contradiction....Is it just me?

Exactly! I said previously that they seem to have far more expectations than others.

Gothard men seem to "expect" their women to stay home, cook, clean, respect their "headship," dress "modestly," have kids and take care of those kids, etc.

[Quilt Fairy]

They are full of it or they are too blind and brainwashed to recognize contradiction after contradiction....Is it just me?

They're just parroting back what's been pounded into their heads. Kind of like when I was 5 I thought that between the letters 'K' and 'P'  in the alphabet came 'elimento'.

[Mrsjumbo]

Johannah comes off as a little know it all when she is chaperoning & repeating those ridiculous rules.

[andromeda331]

Exactly! I said previously that they seem to have far more expectations than others

 

 

I agree they believe from the very beginning this is the person they are going to marry and be with forever. There aren't any higher expectations then that. 

[DangerousMinds]

Many many many expectations IMO.

[leighroda]

I don't understand their theory that "expectations ruin relationships"... Everyone has expectations it's how God made us (following their line of thinking). They use the courting model, in which you meet a boy, you start talking to him and then you expect that you'll be getting married. Unrealistic expectations... Absolutely can ruin a relationship, but expectations in general I personally think are a good thing.

[ginger90]

Perhaps the word demands should replace expectations.

[msblossom]

The gift basket for Cathy was thoughtful, but Jill's constant giggling over it when presenting it with the pie was nauseating. I was a little taken aback at Jill and Derick when they mentioned being unsure about making the time to visit Cathy while she was getting treatment in Omaha over the next 6 weeks she would be away for. Why?? If my mother had cancer and was getting treatment close enough that was within driving distance wild horses couldn't keep me away. Omaha is a 6 hour drive from Rogers. Leave straight after work on Friday, maybe even take off work early, and spend time with your mother all day Saturday and leave around 1pm on Sunday. Heck, that's a no-brainer if that's my parent fighting cancer. If Jill is too fragile with morning sickness or she has bridesmaid obligations then leave her at home. What is Derick thinking?

Edited March 9, 2015 by msblossom

[Absolom]

Have John David fly them out if time is an issue.  I'd have made more than one trip in six weeks.  

[msblossom]

Oh good point, Absolom, I hadn't thought of that!

I think it all boils down to how Jill's feeling re; morning sickness and her ability to make the trip, bc heaven knows Jill would FREAK OUT and PANIC if Derick left her at home. I'm getting visions of her with JB when she had her wisdom teeth pulled. I know morning sickness can be extremely difficult for some women, thankfully that hasn't been my experience, so I'm not unsympathetic, but by the same token I would insist Derick go without me (if I'm Jill) if I can't make the trip(s). This actually bothered me more than advertising John-David as mating material and the annoying ride-along with JB.

Edited March 9, 2015 by msblossom

[JoanArc]

 

bc heaven knows Jill would FREAK OUT and panic if Derick left her at home.

 

It bothered me too. I don't think Jill's been alone 24 hours IN HER LIFE. She can't even manage to do 8 hours while Derrick is at work. I think the whole 'privacy/alone time/introspective reflection is BADBADBAD' was really driven into her. Pregnancy complicates things, sure, but damn. It's not like she doesn't have a million family members around who could've spend the night at the mcmansion helping her. Morning sickness and life-threatening cancer are not comparable. It's like if you spend a night apart your marriage is a total failure. Jill really is 13.

[msblossom]

Agreed and well said. Cancer trumps morning sickness. How incredibly selfish if this turns out to be the case that Derick forgoes visiting Cathy because of it.

Jill shouldn't be indulged in this bc it's going to set a precedent in their marriage and she isn't a fragile child.

And Derick might be OK with it now bc they're still in the honeymoon stage, but I can't believe he won't grow sick of her suffocating ways. Everyone needs a little autonomy and the ability to enjoy yourself without your spouse clawing onto you in desperation bc of their neediness. It's so unattractive in a partner. I want to have experiences apart from my husband and vice versa, it makes life more interesting and doesn't take away from the fact that we are one.

[floridamom]

If, indeed, they didn't go to see Cathy at all during her treatment, Jill can " put her gift basket you-know-where" as far as I'm concerned. There is NO reason why derickdillard would have had to pass up the opportunitites to visit his mother...after all, he's taking waaaay too much time off from his job for Jilly and her TV show obligations and her family's clinginess, isn't he?

I also get the impression that Michelle is completely isolated from Cathy's illness and doesn't have any relationship with this woman. I would think they have absolutely NOTHING in common but a soon to be grandson, and we all know Michelle's interest will pass after this poor kid isn't a newborn any more. Baby Dilly will have ONE grandmother, Cathy.

[msblossom]

I also get the impression that Michelle is completely isolated from Cathy's illness

Good point. Maybe Cathy has tactfully asked (and her husband, less so) Derick to keep Michelle's interactions to a minimum along with her faux sense of compassion and interest in Cathy's well being.

Cathy probably has little to do with Michelle other than seeing her at family gatherings although I'm sure she tries to be gracious on the surface.

[truthtalk2014]

. I would think they have absolutely NOTHING in common but a soon to be grandson, and we all know Michelle's interest will pass after this poor kid isn't a newborn any more. Baby Dilly will have ONE grandmother, Cathy.

Maybe I'm missing something but I have never seen MEchelle show an interest in even the newborn grand babies.  Jim Boob seems to take more of an interest than Queen MEchelle.  Nothing will change when Jill has her baby.  She will just be even more green with envy and absent. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[Barb23]

I've enjoyed reading all the posts about visiting Cathy & I'm adding my two cents. Poor Cathy, going to a hospital out of state for serious treatment for 6 weeks with a son that WON'T come visit you. What was Cathy thinking when Jerick stumbled over words about not visiting her & then she quickly added the Skype thing? No, Jilly, a gift basket isn't a replacement for visiting her & then being all giggly about it. A 10 yr old would have more compassion than she showed. Jill is almost as bad as Michelle in not showing she understands how seriously ill Cathy was. Her immaturity shows in all her giggling, "Awww" type replies. Then Derick makes a big deal about Cathy not being there for the "gender reveal" sono. Big Whoop. Like you all have said Cancer trumps morning sickness & I'm adding is more important than the reveal. I'm sure Cathy is thinking "where's the Derick I raised & thought I knew?"

[truthtalk2014]

 Then Derick makes a big deal about Cathy not being there for the "gender reveal" sono. Big Whoop. Like you all have said Cancer trumps morning sickness & I'm adding is more important than the reveal. I'm sure Cathy is thinking "where's the Derick I raised & thought I knew?"

He is plowing over poor kitties that are forced to stay in the snow.  That's where the Dumbick Dillard is.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[JoanArc]

 

I'm sure Cathy is thinking "where's the Derick I raised & thought I knew?"

 

It's just incredible to watch someone sell their soul for an audience of millions. The show, and the fakey time-warp, really need to end. But it won't.

 

I would point out Jill signed up for morning sickness. Cathy didn't sign up for cancer.

[Missy Vixen]

I've enjoyed reading all the posts about visiting Cathy & I'm adding my two cents. Poor Cathy, going to a hospital out of state for serious treatment for 6 weeks with a son that WON'T come visit you. What was Cathy thinking when Jerick stumbled over words about not visiting her & then she quickly added the Skype thing?

I'm wondering if Cathy is biting her tongue on the regular these days over Jilly Muffin. And Jilly Muffin should be ASHAMED OF HERSELF that she is such a Stage Five Clinger she couldn't see her way clear to derickdillard visiting a seriously ill parent.

 

Most of all, derickdillard is not the man any of us hoped he was. He and Jilly Muffin deserve each other.

[GEML]

I had the absolutely debilitating morning sickness that shut me down completely - the kind where you lie on the floor of the bathroom for fear of moving and they have to risk medications or the mother may not survive because the body begins eating it's nutrients to feed the baby. I lost 40 pounds in 20 days. It's impossibly grueling.

Oh, and my husband was in war torn Yugoslavia at the time and I had no one to care for me.

So Im actually very sympathetic to women with morning sickness, and Id never say that X trumps Y because X can often be pretty bad and sometimes Y might not be.

But the biggest issue here is that Jill had no one but Derrick to care for her. No one. She's done everything right in her world and still no one in her entire family would even think about bringing her a care basket when she's sick, and they've isolated themselves so there is no network to help outside of weddings and new babies. If Derrick doesn't help her, she has no one to rely on but herself, and her upbringing had killed that learning ability from her.

I think Derrick and his Mom understand this. Which is why the Skypeing was inserted so quickly. Cathy had her other son and her second husband. I also think she knows she would have Jill and Derrick under more normal circumstances (as normal as it ever will be with a Duggar as a daughter in law) but that Jill is really and truly alone right now, and how horrified that must make Cathy feel at some level.

[JoanArc]

GEML, I'm sorry for your horrible experience.

 

 

but that Jill is really and truly alone right now

 

and having a baby won't just fix that.

[maraleia]

Hey Everyone...a number of posts have veered way off-topic so I will be deleting them. If you find that your post has been deleted then keep that in mind before you post what you want to say. We have numerous topics in this forum so please avail yourself of those topics and/or refrain from posting your thoughts if they are off-topic altogether.

Thank you.

[GEML]

No, and neither, really, will marriage to Derrick, but it might help her to know that there really is some one in the world who cares first and foremost about her more than anyone. Imagine living your whole life never really feeling like much more than a number. And what's worse for Jill, I think, is that she has tried to live what she was taught perfectly in the hopes that someone would notice and tell her, "yes, I see you and love you." Jim Bob occasionally threw her some affection, but Michelle never noticed her ever, as far as I can see.

[Wellfleet]

I had the absolutely debilitating morning sickness that shut me down completely - the kind where you lie on the floor of the bathroom for fear of moving and they have to risk medications or the mother may not survive because the body begins eating it's nutrients to feed the baby. I lost 40 pounds in 20 days. It's impossibly grueling.

Oh, and my husband was in war torn Yugoslavia at the time and I had no one to care for me.

So Im actually very sympathetic to women with morning sickness, and Id never say that X trumps Y because X can often be pretty bad and sometimes Y might not be.

But the biggest issue here is that Jill had no one but Derrick to care for her. No one. She's done everything right in her world and still no one in her entire family would even think about bringing her a care basket when she's sick, and they've isolated themselves so there is no network to help outside of weddings and new babies. If Derrick doesn't help her, she has no one to rely on but herself, and her upbringing had killed that learning ability from her.

I think Derrick and his Mom understand this. Which is why the Skypeing was inserted so quickly. Cathy had her other son and her second husband. I also think she knows she would have Jill and Derrick under more normal circumstances (as normal as it ever will be with a Duggar as a daughter in law) but that Jill is really and truly alone right now, and how horrified that must make Cathy feel at some level.

 

I think the most important thing to remember in the "cancer vs morning sickness" discussion is that we all know Jill did NOT have morning sickness in that crippling form. What she DOES have is a crippling form of clingy neediness.  One of the worst cases I've ever seen.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Absolom]

If Jill was capable of driving her husband to and from work and also having lunch with him along with having some of her siblings over, she wasn't in such need that it would keep Derick from seeing his mother for a weekend.  I'm sure Joyanna could have gone over to stay with Jill for a couple of days or even Johannah if she really only needed company.  

 

I forgot to say the hospital stay was to be around the 20 week ultrasound and Jill said the morning sickness vastly improved in the second trimester.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by Absolom

[msblossom]

Nah, I can't imagine that Jill has no one but Derick to care for her. She has Jana, Jinger & Joy ( I don't include Jessa for obvious reasons) -- I can't believe one of them being put out to come over for a day or two. Not to mention, Jill could easily stay over with her folks for a couple days; I have a hard time believing that her parents, who provided her with a nice home, would unwelcome her if she's struggling with morning sickness while Derick is out of town visiting his mother who is receiving cancer treatment.

[Missy Vixen]

But the biggest issue here is that Jill had no one but Derrick to care for her. No one. She's done everything right in her world and still no one in her entire family would even think about bringing her a care basket when she's sick, and they've isolated themselves so there is no network to help outside of weddings and new babies. If Derrick doesn't help her, she has no one to rely on but herself, and her upbringing had killed that learning ability from her.

 

 

 

GEML, you are a kind and compassionate person. And I am sorry that you had such terrible morning sickness while your husband was gone. I am thankful that you recovered and you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Jill Duggar Dillard.

 

I agree with those who have mentioned that if Jill was well enough to drive her husband to work, etcetera, she could also call one of her sisters for help if her husband wanted to see his (seriously ill) mother, who seems to be getting the short end of the stick these days. Of course, this is all my opinion.

[floridamom]

I have to add my opinion....I think Jill has many siblings that would be able to help her out if she doesn't feel well. I'm sure they are over quite often for those long morning hours between dropping him off at work and meeting him at his lunch time and that loooong afternoon until 5pm until she's right there to pick derickdillard up. If Derick went to visit his mother during her treatments out of town once a week, that would have been appropriate...and Jill could deal with a few weekends without Derick glued to her hip and enjoy the company of one of her many siblings who would, I'm sure, not mind to stay with her. Heck, I worked full time 8-5pm, drove downtown to work every morning, did the laundry AFTER WORK and ironed the clothes, cooked dinner every night and washed the dishes when I was expecting my first child...my husband didn 't want to be domestic...he was "tired after work"...Jill doesn't have a job to go to, so I think she could handle it..

Heck, didn't James say that visiting Derick and Jill was his "favorite pass time"? He'd be there on her doorstep with his sleeping bag volunteering...

[trimthatfat]

I feel for Cathy, I really do, but nothing stops her from saying 'Derick and Jill, it would mean a lot to me for you to visit a few times during my treatment. Let's choose a few days now'. Parents do it all of the time - tell their kids to visit more. Should Cathy have to in this instance? Absolutely not. But if that's what she wanted - more visits from Derick and DIL - it's important to make that point strongly. Sometimes people don't get it and need it spelled out. Also, if Derick didn't visit, that's on him. I'm not putting that on Jill. Derick is a grown man and that is his mother. He is to blame if they didn't make a visit during the treatment.

[Micks Picks]

DID Derricks mom have a relapse or recurrence?  I thought she was cancer free after treatment after the wedding.  Do you think this was a another series they would give just in case, or did her cancer actually show up again?

[andromeda331]

It doesn't seem like Jill is ever alone. She is constantly with her siblings even after marriage. I agree about the conversation Cathy had with Jill and Derick the fact they said nothing when Cathy spoke of them coming to visit her in Omaha. The poor woman had to suggest Skype. And Derick promising to video conference to let her know the gender of her grandchild. Here's an idea Derick why not drive up and visit your mother in Omaha? You can even tell her in person whether she's going to have a grandson or granddaughter. That might brighten up her day in the mist of doctors and treatments. It was crappy of both Jill and Derick not to say they would visit her. Its not like she was having treatment clear across the country. Omaha was a close enough to drive up on weekends for visits. Not only does it sound like Derick isn't going to visit her when he easily could. He can't even be bother to tell his mother in person if the baby's a boy or girl? That's crappy.

[msblossom]

There's an old saying:

"A son is a son until he takes a wife.

A daughter's a daughter for the rest of her life."

Of course this isn't always the case, and I don't know if this pertains to Derick or not, but the saying did come to mind reading over some of y'all's excellent posts.

[WalrusGirl]

Backtracking a bit, but when watching and noticing the "Miss Cathy" thing, I wondered if/hoped it was because Jill was talking to the crew/audience about her. (Obviously "Miss [first name]" is a southern thing and respectful, it's just on the formal side for your in-laws.) I didn't catch if she addressed Cathy by name during the visit to listen for a "Miss."

I agree that not going out to visit her is ultimately on Derek. He's young enough to be sort of oblivious, but it's more surprising since he already lost one parent. But I'm not sure whether there's any danger associated with the procedure or not, which does make some difference. But yeah, if I'm Jill and not suffering from hyperemesis or other complications (even if, since they don't already have kids to care for and her family is nearby) and was stable, the right thing to do is encourage Derek to at least go out and visit on his own. Offer up JD to fly him, even, and either get Jana or Joy to come stay with her or crash back at the compound for a weekend. (Which, to be fair, strikes me as a complete last resort.)

I think it's more an issue or Jill's clinginess and inability to be alone than her morning sickness or pregnancy concerns. She was well enough to be filming again at this point - the visit with Cathy probably wasn't filmed much later unless they retroactively filmed once she was already done and back home, in which case the awkward visit/Skype exchange wouldn't have happened - she'd have just started with whatever actually happened.

I can get on board with her driving him to and from work, since they have one vehicle, but the daily lunches are just...amazing. So no, I don't see her sending him off for a day or two without her, even to visit his mother. (And culturally, maybe it's frowned upon to travel without one's spouse? *shrugs*)

But I have no issue with telling her the baby's gender over the phone ASAP - wouldn't you rather know immediately than wait days later than everyone else until a personal visit? Unless Derek wanted it that way, in which case it only doesn't suck if they were to hold off on telling everyone else, too. Telling in person often = telling last.

[Hpmec]

Derick is apparently too much of a wuss to sit Jill down and tell her he's going to visit his mother. If Mullet was in a similar situation, the cameras would be rolling as the entire brood, including Jerrick, showed up to keep her company. It would be inconceivable to Jill not to be there. She is so much a Duggar that she simply does not see herself as part of Derick's family and, therefore, feels no obligation toward them. And Derick is already so invested in Duggardom, he's losing sight of who he is. I wonder what his brother thinks of all this. Judging by the clipboard photo mimicking (mocking?) Jill, he has some definite opinions.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Hpmec

[Brown eyed girl]

He is plowing over poor kitties that are forced to stay in the snow. That's where the Dumbick Dillard is.

I read Dumbick as Dumbdick. Lol Which sorts of fits DerrickDillard. Off to the prayer closet for me.

[msblossom]

I like Nepali Derick better than Duggar Derick.

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

Derick was also in Nepal for, what 2 years? Maybe more? Did his mom ever make a trip at least halfway there to visit him. She certainly escorted him back to the States when they met the Duggars. She hasn't really spent much time with him that's all she wants. Maybe she'd like to see some friendly faces. Derick and Jill certainly had time to go to South America in the fall.

[DangerousMinds]

I just don't get all the urgency over the gender reveal. So what if she has to wait one extra day? I still appreciate those who wait unail the baby is born. FFS.

[truthtalk2014]

I just don't get all the urgency over the gender reveal. So what if she has to wait one extra day? I still appreciate those who wait unail the baby is born. FFS.

 

I'm a little sick of these Duggar gender reveals.  Give me a break.  I know I had children 20 years ago- but my gender reveal was to get on the phone and call people when I got home from the ultrasound.  This crap would get old after a few babies. 

[GEML]

I'm actually not kind and compassionate enough to think that any of Jill's older sisters would come over (or be permitted to come over) to help her out while she's suffering real morning sickness. And I think her mother would simply say, as she did, "you learn to work around it." The fact that only Dereck ever even asked Jill how she was feeling wasn't lost on me. For all this notion that women having a baby should be treated like a queen, it's completely lost on me that anyone aside from Dereck has gone out of his/her way to be kind to Jill. (Compare, again, to if a Bates girl were to have morning sickness.)

No one has mentioned it, but it just possible that Derick isn't close to his mother, or there's tension there from the remarriage, or something else altogether. We would never know if it were the case, as Jill would insist everything is wonderful (she does with her own mother!) but some people just aren't close with their parents. It does happen.

Edited March 10, 2015 by GEML

[Marigold]

I switch between there could be a backstory we don't know about.

Or Derick is a Duggar now and is self involved in Duggar World.