S05.E07: Episode Seven

[Too Late Kev]

Upthread a ways, someone referenced a salesman upsetting "Carlton" quite a bit.  Another golden oldie show!  "Uhhhhh, this is Carlton, your doorman...."  From Rhoda, right?  Hadn't thought about that in years and years!  First Larry and his brothers Daryl, now Carlton the Doorman.  My day is made. 

 

That was me! I knew Carlton didn't sound right, but I was blanking on Carson's name and then when I came up with Carlton it was so familiar that it had to be it, right? My brain is coming up with things from decades ago!

[CeeBeeGee]

Fellowes is a Bates fanboy. I doubt he would let Bates be a killer. More likely is, Bates dies in S6 protecting Robert, Anna, or even Thomas.

 

And yes, I know that I may be the last person who still likes Bates.

 

Nah, I love him too.  I love his loyalty to the Crawleys, love his devotion to Anna, I just like him.  Anna's great too.

[chessiegal]

I like Bates too, from the get go. My heart went out to him when he fell for the snake oil salesman cure for his limp with that horrid brace that had him bleeding and in pain, and that Robert finally discovered and made him get rid of. It's the same reason I feel for Thomas, willing to endure that "milk the desperate for money" scheme of "curing" someone of being gay. What people will endure to be accepted and not be different. Sometimes I think we've not come along all that far today.

[millennium]

 

That tiny moment when Mr Drew lifted Marigold into his lap on the train and told her it was all just a game broke my heart. It's nice for Edith that a solution has been found that allows her to keep Marigold with her, but none of this has been fair on the Drews. They bonded with Marigold, loved her - and are still being used even now. It really highlights the class divide - even the 'nice' toffs see the working class as basically there to do their bidding, rather than as people with minds and hearts of their own.

 

 

It was revolting how easily the Crawley women seized upon the idea of re-enlisting the Drewes in yet another of their hare-brained schemes.   I felt ashamed for Mr. Drewe that he had to play along.    "No good deed ..." indeed.    Not only must the Drewes again be used as pawns, but now their reputation around the village will be tarnished too, as paupers unable to honor their promise to look after the child -- and worse for Mrs. Drewe, who will be painted as a woman who lacks the temperament to raise Marigold.

 

I felt extremely cheated by the show for depriving us of the off-camera meeting between Cora and Mrs. Drewe.  

 

I have no interest in Rose and Atticus or any storyline issuing from that union.

 

Mary is boorish.   Edith is repugnant.  

 

It's fast becoming a show about nothing.

Edited February 18, 2015 by millennium

[peggy06]

But under Cora's plan, it would be only natural for the Drewes to maintain a relationship with the child. Then Mutually Assured Destruction would keep the scheme afloat; Mrs. Drewe wouldn't talk because Edith might cut off access, and Edith wouldn't cut off access because Mrs. Drewe might talk.

I'm not sure about this. If Marigold is known publicly to be an orphan they took in, I don't think it would be expected that the child would see them on a regular basis. And the way they've portrayed Mrs. Drewe, it would be very painful/upsetting for her. The way they've portrayed Edith, she'd be suspicious all the time.

 

The entire thing is so weird and far-fetched that I expect the village collectively to put two and two together pretty quickly, anyway. That's not really a good way for it to come out.

[AZChristian]

I like Bates too, from the get go. My heart went out to him when he fell for the snake oil salesman cure for his limp with that horrid brace that had him bleeding and in pain, and that Robert finally discovered and made him get rid of.

 

Wasn't it Mrs. Hughes that found out about the brace and made him throw it into the lake?

[ShadowFacts]

 

Now I just want to see Edith happy for a change.  I hope both she and Cora are able to enjoy doting on little Marigold and I hope their behavior sets the precedent for the rest of the family and the staff to be very kind to her.

 

I don't think true happiness can result from this arrangement -- not for Edith.  She still has to work  a huge lie.  She cannot have it known that Marigold is her biological child.  She can be happier, or happy-ish, but the false pretense, and fear of being found out, will always be there to weigh her down. 

 

 

I've been thinking about this, and the (imho) comment is 2015 sensibilities regarding pets. I would think that in the 1920s, it was a grand gesture to let Isis in the house. And a bigger gesture to let her pass away in the family bed. Once upon a time, animals were animals, not family members. And it wasn't all that long ago.

 

Maybe, but maybe not.  The James Herriott series, based on Alf Wight's experiences in Yorkshire beginning roughly in this time frame (maybe the 30s), showed  his patients being doted upon by their owners, who were mostly not aristocratic.  The dogs often accompanied the people everywhere and Herriott would make house calls where the pets were inside the house.  In my own experience in the U.S., dogs were mostly kept outside when I was a child.  Now, there's a complete reversal of that. 

[Andorra]

I don't think true happiness can result from this arrangement -- not for Edith.  She still has to work  a huge lie.  She cannot have it known that Marigold is her biological child.  She can be happier, or happy-ish, but the false pretense, and fear of being found out, will always be there to weigh her down. 

 

I think for the time it's the best solution possible. Who cares if in the eyes of the world Marigold is truly her daughter or "just" a ward? For Edith the important thing is, that she is with her child. And it's not such a far fetched solution, because many children were brought up as children of their grandmother or aunt to that time to cover an illegitimate pregnancy but to keep the child in the family.

In the CS Tom tells Edith that he knows a "lot of Marigolds" from where he grew up. It's not talked about, but of course everyone knows.

[millennium]

The entire thing is so weird and far-fetched that I expect the village collectively to put two and two together pretty quickly, anyway. That's not really a good way for it to come out.

 

Couldn't they have simply told people that Edith and Greggson had been secretly married in Germany before he was killed?   After all, he left her the magazine, which would lend credence to it.   I suppose if anyone were to look more deeply into the matter they could discover the truth, but it's not like they had TMZ back then.

Edited February 18, 2015 by millennium

[LateJuliet]

Gleefully stolen from the recap at Happy Nice Time People:

 

 

Despite Isis’ condition, it’s too late to cancel the dinner with Lord Merton’s boys even though Robert would prefer to spend every minute with Isis. Tom offers to watch her during dinner, which is a ploy to get out of sitting at the table with that idiot Larry. TOM WOULD LITERALLY RATHER WATCH A DYING DOG THAN GO TO ANOTHER DISASTROUS DINNER AT DOWNTON ABBEY.

 

http://happynicetimepeople.com/downton-abbey-recap-tale-two-dinners/

 

So happy they're finally giving Maggie Smith something to do other than pithy one liners the last couple episodes  Loved her explaining her objection to Isobel's engagement, her work with being called out like a naughty child by Cora for her part in the Marigold Cover Up, and her smack down of Queen Mary at dinner.  My hopeful spec is that Isobel backs out of the engagement and Violet makes it her mission to get Isobel and Lord Merton back together.  I'd pay good money for a scene where she incinerates his sons on the road to that goal.

 

Speaking of Cora, yay for Elizabeth McGovern as well.  The plan is dumb but that's the fault of the writing.  EMcG's acting was first rate, we got shock, anger, threats, love of her daughter, scheming, compassion - it's so nice to see her do something other than simpering, issuing plot point invitations, and floating thru Downton like a laudanum addict.

 

Rose and Atticus are adorbs but wow, that was some crappy kissing.

 

The murder mystery plot can follow the Mary Men right the hell off my screen.  Sick to bits of both stories.

Edited February 18, 2015 by LateJuliet

[Andorra]

 

Rose and Atticus are adorbs but wow, that was some crappy kissing.

 

LOL, yes it was! I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed. They really should have taught Matt Barber how to do a proper film kiss before they shot that scene!

[Badger]

Mrs. Drewe's objection is because she thinks Edith is only interested in Marigold as something to keep herself amused and occupied until she has a husband and babies of her own.  She doesn't want to see Marigold hurt because the nice lady from the big house who used to come by to see her has forgotten about her.

 

Despite her shenanigans with a married man back in Season 3, I think Rose is still a virgin, if only technically.  

 

Regarding the "Upstairs Downstairs" reboot, they did have two characters who were Nazi sympathizers although one stopped.  The other, who was probably based on Unity Mitford, became a Nazi spy.

[JudyObscure]

The dogs often accompanied the people everywhere and Herriott would make house calls where the pets were inside the house.

That's what I thought. Lord Grantham would never take his dog to the vet. Downton would have a vet on call all the time who would come often to take care of cows, pigs, horses and dogs. I spend thousands of dollars every year on vet bills for one dog and one cat and sometimes I remember that the Irish Setter I had while growing up, only went to the vet on the day he had to be put down. He barked his sweet old self into a stroke at an astonishing age 18.

[Constantinople]

We know there were investigations into his disappearance; Robert referenced them. Moreover, he still owned a publishing concern in London and his business would have wanted to find him. Gregson most definitely intended to return to London to live and work once he got his divorce, German or not. It was his livelihood. And the cover story for his trip was that he was a tourist. The only person who knew his intentions was Edith.

It is impossible that all this could have gone on, plus an obit and probating his will, without referencing that he had a wife.

 

 

Couldn't they have simply told people that Edith and Greggson had been secretly married in Germany before he was killed?   After all, he left her the magazine, which would lend credence to it.   I suppose if anyone were to look more deeply into the matter they could discover the truth, but it's not like they had TMZ back then.

There was no TMZ, but people still gossiped, and there would be a lot of odd facts that would make for plenty of gossip.

 

Partly it depends on which set of people to which we're referring, but even in Downton village there's a lot to chew on

1. As persey noted, there would be in obit, likely in several newspapers, and those obits would mention a wife. Those papers make it up to York

2. There's been no obit for Mrs. Gregson.

3. Edith went abroad for a long period of time.

4. When Edith returned, she showed an unusual interest in one particular infant, and no other. Never before had Edith ever showed such an interest in an "orphan" child.

5. Gregson was known to have visited Downton as Edith's guest; they would probably also know that he stayed at Shrimpie's place once as her guest

6. Edith was known to work at Gregson's newspaper.

7. If word hadn't already gotten around town, eventually people would find out that the married Gregson left his newspaper/magazine to a woman who wasn't his wife.

 

In London, at the very least the people who worked at Gregson's newspaper/magazine would have to wonder why Edith is in charge and what's going on with his wife.  Those people no doubt have friends and former colleagues who work at other newspapers.

 

 

ETA: Also, if Mrs Gregson has a guardian, there's a distinct possibility that the guardian will sue to overturn the will on the grounds that Gregson wasn't mentally competent (after all he was willing to give-up British citizenship).  An uphill battle, but it would bring Edith a lot of unwanted publicity unless she settled.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Constantinople

[dahling]

3. Edith went abroad for a long period of time.

4. When Edith returned, she showed an unusual interest in one particular infant, and no other. Never before had Edith ever showed such an interest in an "orphan" child.

 

 

If her own family weren't so obsessed with gazing into their own navels, this alone should have given up the plot. As Atticus would say, "it seemed rather obvious to me."

[AZChristian]

Mrs. Drewe's objection is because she thinks Edith is only interested in Marigold as something to keep herself amused and occupied until she has a husband and babies of her own.  She doesn't want to see Marigold hurt because the nice lady from the big house who used to come by to see her has forgotten about her.

 

 

She may have had that concern early on, but by the time she's gone to see Cora, Mrs. Drewe KNOWS that Marigold is Edith's child.  Mrs. Drewe tore up the birth certificate.  I do feel badly that Mrs. Drewe was hurt, but Marigold was, is, and always will be Edith's child.  It took Edith a couple of false starts to actually recognize that nothing mattered OTHER than having her child with her, but she finally stood up and said, "ENOUGH! She's mine, and I will not be told that I cannot even see her."

[shipperx]

Honestly though, why would anyone care enough to 'figure it out'. Edith's own family barely cared enough to figure it out. Edith is hardly a social butterfly or an important figure in society. As to the village I assume they'll end up much like Anna and Mrs Hughes. They know good and darn well what's going on better than Edith's family. But it's all put to rest within the family and they've papered over the naughty bits with a fig leaf cover story. Yes, there will be whispers and winks, but the Crawley family basically owns the village, no one (save Mrs Drewe) is going to go to the trouble of openly calling it out. Too much risk for too little reward. It'll be something whispered behind people's hands occasionally but it's not like it effects any of them. The title aristocratic crowd is far more likely to say anything out in the open. The Larry and Daryl Merton's of the world would be mean... But it's not like spinster Edith was on their radar much to begin with. To quote BtVS most would be 'paralyzed by not caring very much'. It'll most like reside in the open secret territory where people will wink and nudge and gossip but if the family doesn't shame and censure her, it'll become old news because it truly affects very few people.

What could work story wise is to finally give Edith a suitor. Sooner or later she'd have to out herself and Marigold to him and depending on who he is that could have various forms of fall out.

Additionally Mary needs something at stake in her own plot. The primary problem with Mary and her suitors is there is nothing at stake. She has everything she wants and even stuff she doesn't want. Someone mentioned the problem of a titled suitor with an estate of his own. That might not be a bad idea. Present her with an obstacle. She could fall for someone whose priority is not Downton. Then she would have something to angst about. Downton and George's future versus finally falling in love again. Obstacles: fiction needs them.

[fishcakes]

But under Cora's plan, it would be only natural for the Drewes to maintain a relationship with the child. Then Mutually Assured Destruction would keep the scheme afloat; Mrs. Drewe wouldn't talk because Edith might cut off access, and Edith wouldn't cut off access because Mrs. Drewe might talk.

 

I'd be surprised if Edith lets Mrs. Drewe ever see Marigold. In her own self-absorption, Edith already bizarrely considers herself the wronged party, and the instant Marigold catches sight of Mrs. Drewe in the village or where ever and goes running to her calling her "mum" -- because as far as Marigold is concerned, Mrs. Drewe is her mother -- Edith will completely lose her shit.

Edited February 18, 2015 by fishcakes

[ShadowFacts]

What are the logistics of this plan likely to be?  Will there be a formal adoption by Edith?  Because that's sticky since she is already the mother on the birth certificate.  What is Marigold's last name currently?  Will it change?  Of course everyone will figure it out, but since Edith still doesn't have the courage to have her father know the truth or Mary "queening" it over her, there will have to be some deceptions.  And honestly, the part about Robert not knowing that's his blood grandchild, on the eve of what appears to be Sybbie leaving, would really bother me if I were Cora.

[Andorra]

 

What are the logistics of this plan likely to be?  Will there be a formal adoption by Edith?  Because that's sticky since she is already the mother on the birth certificate.

 

Adoption didn't exist in 1924. So there is no "formal adoption" necessary or possible.

 

Marigold will live in Downton as the Crawley's "ward" not as Edith's ward even if it will be clear to the family that she has the role of the "adoptive mother". Her last name will probably changed to Crawley, but not because of Edith, but because she is offically a member of the family.

 

I  think that even if the whole county would figure out who Marigold really is, the main thing is that she is now under the Earl of Grantham's official protection and as long as HE holds the appearance of her being nothing else but an orphan that the family took under their wings, nothing will happen. What weight has the word of Mrs Drewe against the word of the local Milord? They're all more or less dependant on him and they will avoid to be the source to evil gossip about the family.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Andorra

[ZoloftBlob]

She may have had that concern early on, but by the time she's gone to see Cora, Mrs. Drewe KNOWS that Marigold is Edith's child.  Mrs. Drewe tore up the birth certificate.  I do feel badly that Mrs. Drewe was hurt, but Marigold was, is, and always will be Edith's child.  It took Edith a couple of false starts to actually recognize that nothing mattered OTHER than having her child with her, but she finally stood up and said, "ENOUGH! She's mine, and I will not be told that I cannot even see her."

 

I have to admit, while I feel for Edith, I don't see her as taking this rightious stand. She didn't tell Mrs. Drewe she was the mother for *months*, so now she's the proud hero mama? She let someone else raise her child because she couldn't face the potential scorn and when she finally realized after what, a year and a half, that she actually wants her child, she's suddenly the hero of the story. I mean, Mrs. Drewe as the woman who *willingly* assumed the role of Edith's mother has every right to tell someone who has no child of her own by choice that she can not have access to Mrs. Drewe's. Its not like Edith didn't have opportunity for a year and a half to have that self rightious "SHE IS MY CHILD AND I WILL NOT BE KEPT FROM MY CHILD" moment.

 

I feel for Edith, but I can't paint her as the hero here. If Mrs. Drewe had caved, and let Edith have her special cuddle time, Edith would have been content to visit and would have let Marigold be Marigold Drewe.

[shipperx]

Question: until Gregson left Edith the newspaper did she have the financial independence to dare all of society and strike out on her own? The threat of being disowned was real (albeit since they want us to like them, unlikely they'd actually do that to Robert) I cannot remember, did he cut Sybil off financially when she married Tom? I know he didn't see her for a year and he threatened to disown her before backing down. But the question remains. As a single woman, her finances are at her father's behest because at that time she might be an adult but she was still a family dependent as that was the social and legal status of women. As it was things were being financed through the widowed Rosamund and Violet, who made it clear what the 'solution' should be. It's all well and good to demand that Edith defy society and risk her place in the family, but was she in a financial place to do so before Gregson left her with financial means? If she had dared the truth and Robert had even a Sybil level partial hissyfit, how would she have managed all of the particulars? She would be either desperate or begging family to pay her way, in which case she's back to being dependent on what they thing the solution should be. It isn't 2015. Defiance of family and society carried a bigger weight pre feminism.

Edited February 18, 2015 by shipperx

[SusanSunflower]

But actually Edith was just impossibly inconsiderate, not only of Mrs. Drewe's "preferences" but also the other children who would catch on and likely tattle, at school perhaps (to Sarah Bunting perhaps???) about the fancy lady who showed up all the time to play with their new adopted orphan of a sister. I vaguely remember some talk about Edith coming by every day, but Edith's actual arrivals -- as shown -- seemed to always be unexpected and interrupting. Plus Edith never showed a whit of interest in the other kids, which usually arouses interest if not jealousy. Babies who can't walk or talk aren't endlessly fascinating to children, while most are eager to show off whatever new skill or trick they've leaned "look at me. look at what I can do!" Was money changing hands for Marigold's board and care?  Mrs. Drewe had every reason to suspect that Marigold was the product of some illicit relationship between her husband and Edith. Meh, I think in a passive-aggressive self-defeating way Edith was ensuring the arrangement with the Drewe's would not "work" via rejection of Mrs. Drewe's rights to privacy and control of her home/family -- an ugly "revenge" on an innocent woman who did her no harm -- because Mrs. Drewe enviably had a home, a husband, a brood of small children -- her own happy-enough life. 

 

eta: Sybil was to marry Tom when she left -- and as I recall there was talk about "her money" and I vaguely recall something about her receiving half of it -- which Tom then refused to touch even to pay to travel back to Downton (??) .... someone else will know. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[RedHawk]

So Mrs. Patmore is writing to Mr. Mason? Could there be a Patmason going on? I say go for it. They make a cute couple.

 

 

[spoken in Cora's voice] "Oh, I think that would be sweet."

 

Question: until Gregson left Edith the newspaper did she have the financial independence to dare all of society and strike out on her own?

 

 

Perhaps not enough to live independently on her own in the way she's accustomed to, but we've heard a few mentions of "my money" and apparently she receives income from a trust fund set up by her grandfather Grantham (Violet's husband/Robert's father). 

 

My hopeful spec is that Isobel backs out of the engagement and Violet makes it her mission to get Isobel and Lord Merton back together.  I'd pay good money for a scene where she incinerates his sons on the road to that goal.

 

 

Please, please let this happen! Would restore my faith in this show at last. And then Violet could set her sights on having Edith proudly stand up and make herself known as Marigold's biological mother. 

[lucindabelle]

It's true that there were Nazi sympathizers on Upstairs, Downstairs.

That doesn't change the fact that a Jewish Hollywood mogul blithely came to dinner and everyone thought that was cool and the nice heroine nearly had an affair with him (or did she?).

 

It's just not true that you had to be a Nazi sympathizer to be antisemitic. Plenty of people didn't approve of genocide but wouldn't want to have a Jew at their table. That is gross retrofitting.

 

And, I don't see how taking care of a child for less than a year makes one its mother... Edith carried and breastfed that child. Mrs. Drewe can't possibly believe Edith only wants the baby for fun, now-- she should be reevaluating all of her impressions of Edith, now knowing Edith was not "obsessed" but just wanted to be with her daughter. I know this is old ground, but I don't see any reason to like Mrs. Drewe. If that had been Edith's only copy of the birth certificate she'd have happily kept the little girl away from her own mother.

[SusanSunflower]

I've observed childless women "of a certain age" fixate on someone else's child in ways that were not healthy -- in fact, I was recipient of such "affection" at about age 6-7. I think Mrs. Drewe had reason to be very uncomfortable with this woman (who after all had a niece and nephew at home to lavish her attentions on) fixated on her little doll-like Marigold. Who, who "likes" people who cannot take a hint?  and who then refuse to act in accordance with prior agreement(s), suddenly showing up with no warning, requesting entrance and if refused, visibly, disturbingly upset and lingering. Yeeech. Mrs. Drewe was played for a fool by her husband and treated no better by Edith for Edith's own reasons. She thought Marigold was a child entrusted by her dead parents to her and her husband to raise ... 

Edited February 18, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[RedHawk]

Because I'm a big fan of Lionel Barrymore and Mabel Lane Fox mentioned he was in the film they all saw in the "kin-e-mah", I looked up his 1924 films on IMDB.com.

 

One is "Meddling Women" and the synopsis is: "Like the clutching hands of phantom ghosts are those of "MEDDLING WOMEN" seeking to destroy the love and happiness of others." Ha! Mabel might have thought that an appropriate one for Mary to watch.

[Andorra]

 

eta: Sybil was to marry Tom when she left -- and as I recall there was talk about "her money" and I vaguely recall something about her receiving half of it -- which Tom then refused to touch even to pay to travel back to Downton (??) .... someone else will know. 

 

Robert said in their parting scene that "there will be some money. But not much." So he did pay her an allowance.

 

In a scene that was cut at the beginning of series 3 we see Tom and Sybil in Ireland. They're talking about going to Mary's wedding and Tom says they can't afford it, because "it's worse enough that we live on your pin money, since I only earn famine wages. And we're expecting a Baby now."

He then says that she should go alone, because they could maybe afford it, but she declines and tells him that she will only return to Downton as a couple.

 

So it's clear Tom's job as a journalist for a republican paper is paid very badly. Sybil can't work since she's pregnant and they have to rely on Sybil's allowance.

 

The Dowager sends them the money for the ferry and when the Crawleys suggest that Tom should buy a wardrobe for Downton (which easily would have cost a few month's salary), Sybil talks about the rest of THAT money. And that's what Tom refuses to use.

[RedHawk]

I think Mrs. Drewe had reason to be very uncomfortable with this woman (who after all had a niece and nephew at home to lavish her attentions on) fixated on her little doll-like Marigold.

 

 

I give the actress playing Mrs. Drewe credit for depicting her fear/suspicion of Edith in a way that I felt was natural and instinctive for a mother. She even managed somewhat to sell me on her panic when she returned from the dentist and didn't immediately see Marigold and Edith in her home. We saw Edith totally ignore the older children and seem fixated on Marigold, then her visits became increasingly more interruptive and she took on a possessive attitude and never seemed to want to leave when she should. I could see Mrs. Drewe thinking that there was something "off" with this young unmarried woman's consuming interest in one particular child. 

 

Eta: Which leads me to decide that Mrs. Drewe's visit to Cora, while somewhat due to anger and a desire to have her say about being ill-used, was mostly because she was truly concerned about Marigold's welfare. Considering how Edith had taken Marigold and then (Mrs. D learned from Violet) run away and left her family with no clue where she was, Mrs. D probably thought coming forward with the truth might help them find Edith and Marigold before something bad could happen. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by RedHawk

[TVForever]

Concerning Edith, now would be the perfect time for her to leave the show. As the heir to Gregson's publishing house, she's now independently wealthy (at least I think Gregson's business is lucrative) in a way that she couldn't be otherwise, except as a widow like Mary. She probably should just sell the business, take the money and Marigold, and start over in America with a made-up backstory. Too many questions to answer and lies to make up if she stays at Downton, or even London, since their social set moves in both places. Maybe start over with her grandmother in Chicago.

[ZoloftBlob]

And, I don't see how taking care of a child for less than a year makes one its mother... Edith carried and breastfed that child.

 

I don't see how breast feeding a child for a few months makes one a mother. Wet nurses aren't deemed "the mother of the child". Mind you, I am not invalidating Edith's motherhood, I'm merely pointing out that people who adopt children generally are considered the parents within hours of the adoption. Mrs. Drewe didn't Marigold as a strange child they were being paid to tend, she was told by her husband that it was a child of a friend and they were *adopting* the baby. To Mrs. Drewe, this wasn't a temporary thing, Marigold was to become her daughter, and did actually become her daughter. Try telling any adoptive parent "you only had her for less than a year, thats not enough time in to *really* be a parent" and see what happens

[lucindabelle]

Yes, I understand what Mrs. Drew thought she saw.

But now she knows better. At just 30? Edith is hardly "of a certain age." She might well be younger than Mrs. Drewe.

And there is no way she thought going to Cora was for the good of Marigold-- I just don't buy it. She did it for revenge.

[mcjen]

Red Hawk wrote:

 

So Mrs. Patmore is writing to Mr. Mason? Could there be a Patmason going on? I say go for it. They make a cute couple.

[spoken in Cora's voice] "Oh, I think that would be sweet."

 

Brilliant!  And though it hardly needs said, you could have added the stage direction [chin tilted down].

 

Re: Edith's situation:  among the plethora of Scenes We Never Got to See, I'm wondering just how Edith's takeover of the management of Gregson's magazine/newspaper/earliest-blog-in-history publication worked.  Was it Robert who told Cora that Gregson had left Edith the paper (or whatever) and was that immediately after someone (the editor? or was it a solicitor?) came to give her the news that he was officially deceased.  

Assuming that was all handled legally in Gregson's will, the employees at the publication would likely have had to accept that Edith is now the de facto "boss".  But, meanwhile, someone else has been running things for the last couple of years, presumably said "editor".  It's not like we've been treated to any scenes of Edith running down to London to take care of business.  Certainly it wasn't on her agenda at all during the "Trip to Switzerland to Improve Her French".  We're to believe she's kept her column writing because the Dowager C inquired about that recently, but I expect with all of Edith's time/attention absorbed with stalking small children she's probably been an infrequent contributor at best.

So how and when did she swan into the office and take charge?  The receptionist who tried to steer Cora away clearly was following instructions not to let certain visitors get through to Edith, and I'm fascinated by the dynamics of that.  I honestly am...it's possible Edith was a much-loved figure around the office - the lady aristocrat who wrote a column about ordinary things, who may possibly have treated co-workers very kindly.  I would love to have known about that.  Or maybe they viewed her as a dilettante who was playing "pretend journalist"; maybe they felt it was an insult to their professionalism.  Or maybe some saw her as a talented amateur who they were happy to have around.  I don't know, because we haven't seen any of that.

What I do suspect, though, is that there are almost certainly some long-time employees at the paper who knew well that Gregson was married and knew about his unfortunate wife's condition.  Did any of them catch on to his interest in Edith?  Was it viewed with sympathy or suspicion?  Is there not a Thomas anywhere amidst that crowd of worker bees?

Aside from the undoubted suspicion of villagers around Downton about Lady Edith's "ward", I would think the London office is another place where her story may unravel.  (As someone else pointed out upthread.)  After all, they are journalists.  Would they really all just accept the situation as they're told or wouldn't someone look into it?

I realize it's no valet-falling-off-a-crowded-sidewalk-and-getting-hit-by-a-bus mystery, but surely it would provoke a few questions, if only around the office.  God knows, Scotland Yard has its hands full with all those trips to Yorkshire.

Edited February 18, 2015 by mcjen

[shipperx]

I would think Edith is the owner not the managing editor. Because she was given ownership doesn't mean that she is running the day to day reporting, editing, or management. Murdoch does not show up every morning at Fox News Channel to speak to the AM host imbeciles. He has Roger Ailes sending out the memos. If he were hands on he wouldn't have gotten out of the UK wiretapping scandal by pointing lower down the totem pole to take the fall. Even in the 1920s Randolf Hurst wasn't doing all the day to day management. He had to have time to bang Marian Davies at San Simeon.

The owner is not always nor even usually managing editor. If old enough. think of the old Newspaper show Lou Grant and remember Lou and that other guy ran the paper while Mrs Pinchon owned the place, or more contemporary think of The Newsroom and Jane Fonda's character versus Sam Waterston's. Edith can be as hands on --or not -- as she wants to be.

Edited February 18, 2015 by shipperx

[RedHawk]

Assuming that was all handled legally in Gregson's will, the employees at the publication would likely have had to accept that Edith is now the de facto "boss".  But, meanwhile, someone else has been running things for the last couple of years, presumably said "editor".

 

 

Yes, it seems clear that someone who worked under Gregson and whom Gregson trusted was left in charge of running the business. We can assume that Edith was well known to him because she has been in touch with the publishing house since Gregson disappeared and they readily shared information with her. We know that the business had been involved in having a search conducted for Gregson, and that the firm has not gone under while Gregson was away, so 1) I assume there were competent people in charge, 2) they knew Edith as Gregson's power-of-attorney and proxy, and 3) they accepted her as such.

 

The step up to "owner" of the publishing house is indeed a big one, but no one at the office seemed to act as if she didn't belong there. In fact, the receptionist hiding the fact that Edith was in the building, probably at Edith's request, showed me that Edith's orders were respected there.

 

So the question seems to be whether someone in the firm would question Edith inheriting the business instead of the wife? Or that they'll gossip about him being married and giving a business to another woman? 

 

It was rather mysterious how he had Edith sign a document at the last minute, didn't seem to explain much to her about it, etc. My feeling back then was that somehow things would go wrong for Edith and he was conning her (remember, he was a cardsharp in his younger days) but who knows? Things changed when the actor chose not to continue the role of Gregson, so like the character of Rose, I think there's a bit of retrofitting going on with this storyline, and I mostly just shrug about it. Edith inherited the business, Gregson's wife is in an asylum. We may or may not ever hear of her again. Someone in the publishing house may or may not gossip. Remains to be seen.

Edited February 18, 2015 by RedHawk

[Andorra]

 

I would think Edith is the owner not the managing editor.

 

Yes,that's what I think,too. Gregson planned to leave for a lengthy absence, so he must have hired a managing editor to do his work.

[lucindabelle]

Good point about Edith not being the ME.

The way the staff was covering for her suggested she's been at work, but who knows.

[Andorra]

In season 4 she said "I have to go to London to Michaels office" very often. So I think she is well known there. But that doesn't mean that she is really "running" the paper. I doubt she could do that. I think Michael Gregson hired people for that and Edith is just showing her face from time to time and takes an interest in what is happening there. And since she had power of attorny and now is the owner, they will probably be obliged to give information when asked.

[JudyObscure]

There's a wonderful 1939 Bette Davis movie, The Old Maid wherein Bette sneaks home her illegitimate child to be raised in the family mansion as if she belonged to her married sister. The child grows up devoted to her beautiful stylish "mother" ( Mary) with nothing but disdain for her dowdy, plain "Aunt" (Edith.) If he only had time, I can see Fellowes stealing this plot in order to visit more heart break on Edith.

I agree that Cora must tell Robert. Come on, his grandchild, his home, etc. Why would Edith think "He would never look at me the same," when he clearly looked at Mary the same after hearing about Pamuk?

[RedHawk]

My impression is that Edith has had a good relationship with "the office" since Gregson left. Nothing I've seen would make me think otherwise. How great it would be to see her bloom there and then feel able to reveal Marigold's true parentage, no longer afraid to be the "county failure".

[alias1]

There's a wonderful 1939 Bette Davis movie, The Old Maid wherein Bette sneaks home her illegitimate child to be raised in the family mansion as if she belonged to her married sister. The child grows up devoted to her beautiful stylish "mother" ( Mary) with nothing but disdain for her dowdy, plain "Aunt" (Edith.) If he only had time, I can see Fellowes stealing this plot in order to visit more heart break on Edith.

 

Oh my gosh.  That would be the ultimate Julian Fellowes nail in Edith's coffin.  Have Marigold grow up in Downton and because Edith cannot admit she is her own child, Marigold develops a greater affection for someone else in the household.  Although I'm not sure it would be Mary.  That's not only unlikely but really too cruel.

[blackwing]

Concerning Edith, now would be the perfect time for her to leave the show.

Yes, yes, please yes.  I still despise this character, and I don't like the actress either and her mannerisms.  I don't feel sorry for Edith one bit.  I find it hard to believe that the village is going to buy this "noblewoman with a heart of gold raising someone else's child" bit.  Marigold is Edith's daughter, it would stand to reason that there would be a similarity in appearance to some degree.  

 

I did feel sorry for Isobel.  She didn't deserve to be treated the way she was by the Grey sons.  Although I'm confused as to why Lord Merton wouldn't have sat his sons down prior to the dinner and told them that he was going to marry Isobel and he expected them to welcome her.  Of course nobody would replace their mother.  It's very evident that he wasn't trying to do that.  These are GROWN ASS MEN in their 30s, you would think they could understand that their father just needs companionship and not someone to be a mother to his grown ass sons.

[Kohola3]

The child grows up devoted to her beautiful stylish "mother" ( Mary) with nothing but disdain for her dowdy, plain "Aunt" (Edith.)

 

Somehow an hour a day (and probably less than that since Mary is out suitor hunting) with aloof Mary wouldn't qualify for a lifelong adoration.  Even Sybbie ignores her, actually preferring Donk when let loose from the nursery.

 

Of course nobody would replace their mother.

 

Honestly, they aren't toddlers who need nurturing.  They are entitled assholes who need a swift kick.  Nobody of their age should even try that lame BS.  Merton should have made them both walk home and no supper, either..  PS love the Larry and Daryl reference!

[ShadowFacts]

 

It was rather mysterious how he had Edith sign a document at the last minute, didn't seem to explain much to her about it, etc. My feeling back then was that somehow things would go wrong for Edith and he was conning her (remember, he was a cardsharp in his younger days) but who knows?

 

That's exactly what I thought at the time, he had her sign something without her reading it (her bad), he had enough card cheating knowledge to bail out Robert, and wasn't there a mention of a valuable Gutenberg bible around that time?  I thought there was something shady about him.  The wife in the asylum didn't help.  I'm still not sure he was on the up-and-up.  It would be very, very soapy for the non-crazy wife to show up yet, so I'm not counting it out.

[RedHawk]

That's exactly what I thought at the time, he had her sign something without her reading it (her bad), he had enough card cheating knowledge to bail out Robert, and wasn't there a mention of a valuable Gutenberg bible around that time?

 

 

If you ask me, Gregson took the Gutenberg Bible, sold it, and is now living the high life with his not at all insane wife at Baden-Baden. 

 

I mean, has anyone seen that Gutenberg Bible 'round the old Abbey lately?

[Too Late Kev]

Following is something from the scenes for next week and a comment on that:

 

Robert is looking at Margorie and Edith and he says something like, "There's something about that child..." so I don't think it will be very long before Robert figures out that the thing about her is a resemblance to Edith and the rest of the family. Like, "Hmm, why does that kid have my mother's eyes and Edith's hair? Curious!"

 

My impression is that Edith has had a good relationship with "the office" since Gregson left. Nothing I've seen would make me think otherwise. How great it would be to see her bloom there and then feel able to reveal Marigold's true parentage, no longer afraid to be the "county failure".

 

Thinking back to Edith's relationships with people who aren't Mary or a farmer's wife, she's a nice, non-judgmental person. Remember the soldiers she wrote letters for and got to know well when DA was used for a convalescent home? Or how she learned to drive to help out a farmer? (I think that decision was before she got a crush on him.) She probably treats the people at the office as if they had brains in their heads and something to contribute to the company. They don't know that she's the also-ran at home.

 

Someone above mentioned that Robert managed to accept the Mary/Pamuk information without looking at Mary differently constantly. But I don't think Edith knows that Robert knows about that. We know, and Cora knows (and I thought I saw that knowledge flit across Cora's face when Edith was saying not to tell Daddy), but does anyone recall that Edith knows it?

[meep.meep]

 

I'd like to add that Marigold is all she has left of Gregson, but I haven't completely ruled out his return.  I know they said his "remains" were found, but were they positively identified as Gregson's?

 

Well if Dr. Clarkson did the identification, almost anything could happen.

 

I hope that Edith takes a flat/house in London, moves into it with Marigold, changes her name to something less silly, and that Bates and Anna move in to take care of them and they all  live happily ever after murder-free and disappearance-free off screen.

 

That leaves more time to devote to the really important issues like who Lady Mary can get married to and whether Daisy keeps learning history.

[mcjen]

You all make very good points about the likelihood that Edith is now the owner, not the managing editor.  It makes good sense and I can accept that.  I suppose because Gregson appeared to be both owner and managing editor I was conflating the two positions; clearly, there is no reason to do that.

 

I still wish, though, that Fellows could have thrown us a bone along the way to see how Edith's position and relationships at the office developed in Gregson's absence. Just one scene, meeting with staff or dept. heads would establish a lot. Even now, while the managing editor may handle the day-to-day issues, I expect the owner has to be consulted for some decisions. Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turned out Edith has more of an innate head for business than Robert does?

[RedHawk]

Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turned out Edith has more of an innate head for business than Robert does?

 

 

Oh, please, Isis had more of a head for business than Robert!

[politichick]

Well if Dr. Clarkson did the identification, almost anything could happen.

 

I hope that Edith takes a flat/house in London, moves into it with Marigold, changes her name to something less silly, and that Bates and Anna move in to take care of them and they all  live happily ever after murder-free and disappearance-free off screen.

 

That leaves more time to devote to the really important issues like who Lady Mary can get married to and whether Daisy keeps learning history.

But, seriously, they didn't even have DNA testing so how did they identify his remains? And hadn't too many years passed for the corpse to be recognizable?

 

I actually kind of love the name Marigold.

Didn't Lord Grantham say that the editor or whomever came to visit said that the magazine had been left to Edith? Also, as someone else has noted, I'm pretty sure that Edith continued to write her column and call into the office periodically and that she mentioned those things several times.