S05.E07: Episode Seven

[DianeDobbler]

For the latest episode - Edith is found, Isis is on her way out, Isobel is engaged.

[panthergirl13]

Well, Violet wasn't the only one with "something in her eye" tonight.

 

:'(

[vesperholly]

In my estimation:

 

Up

• Cora, for taking Edith's baby news well and non-judgementally, coming up with a plan to include Marigold at Downton*

• Dowager Countess, for laying a much needed smackdown of Mary's callous comments re: Edith at dinner

• Tony Gillingham, for finally buzzing off and shacking up with MLF.

• Branson, for calling Larry a bastard

• Atticus, for the suggestion to look for Edith at the office (DUH) and being generally very adorable with Rose

 

Down

• Lord Grantham, for being such a dick about Edith's "ward" and generally more loving to his sick dog than Edith

• Lord Merton's sons, for being snobby dicks in general

• Mary, for being needlessly cruel and selfish every time Edith dares open her mouth within a mile of her and even in her absence

• Anna, for the nosiness which does not suit her

• Everyone involved in Daisy's stupid storyline for being a waste of time. "I don't have faith in the Labour government" ?!?!?!?!

 

* even if Edith seemed WAY more happy in London running the magazine than in Downton, as reflected by her much-improved wardrobe. Though maybe now that Marigold is officially her ward, she can go back to London.

Edited November 3, 2014 by vesperholly

[ZulaMay]

Why did they kill Isis?  To prove Robert loves her more than Edith?

 

Why in the Hell does Edith even want to come home?  It would seem more fun to be in London and hang around the newspaper office.

 

The scene with Tom/Sybbie was adorable but if he leaves the show after that pointless two-season-long storyline for which they killed Sybil?  I will cut a bitch.

 

LOVED Violet admitting she'd miss Isobel, and talking about her with such affection and admiration.  I am not usually a Violet fan but that was lovely.  Also that she told Mary to stop being such a heartless cow about her sister.

 

I did like the Cora/Rosamund/Violet interactions but I can't muster much sympathy for Cora being "kept in the dark."  They did, but your eyes adjust to darkness and can still see things.  Cora's just blind.  They kept it a secret because that was what Edith wanted.  It sucks for her that Edith didn't want to tell her but that's at least partly her own fault.

 

 That said I am glad she didn't judge her and was instantly wanting Marigold in her life.  Big props for that.  That is one of Cora's best qualities.  She doesn't judge and she would never turn her back on her family for making a mistake.  But again, I don't fault Edith for not wanting to tell her because Cora does openly prefer Mary and Edith is insecure in her love.  That's on her head.

 

Does anyone else find it unrealistic that Merton's sons are such enormous pricks?  I mean, really?  They insulted everyone at the table and that's just not how a gentleman behaved.  I could see them talking smack behind their backs or being quietly snide but not picking a fight like that.  Anyway, glad Tom called him a bastard.  But LOL that everyone was clutching their pearls a bit at the use of that word given the way the Merry Mertons behaved.

Edited November 3, 2014 by ZulaMay

[ZulaMay]

I doubt Tom is really leaving.  He better not.  

 

Bates was insufferable.  The way he talked to Baxter?  There is something so quietly threatening about him.  He's so damned patronizing.   I wish they'd leave.

[Cherpumple]

I agree with vesperholly's assessment of the episode, and want to add a few things.

 

- I'm still very nervous about the Edith storyline. I started shaking my head as soon as they said that part of the plan would be to give Marigold to the Drewe's for a day and then bring her to Downton. It wouldn't surprise me if the Drewes pull a runner with Marigold in tow, or for Mrs. Drewe to cause a scene in the drawing room or something. And if that doesn't happen, I expect she's facing life as a second-class citizen within her own family, since I doubt Mary or Robert will treat her as one of their own. I think that at least the immediate family should know what's up, because what is point of her being raised by her birth family if she thinks they are just rich patrons who took her in? If she ever finds out the truth that will surely mess with her head.

 

- As distasteful as Lord Merton's sons are, I actually like it when people are snobby towards the Crawleys. It's funny to me to see the shoe on the other foot.

 

- Speaking of the Mertons, I had to rewind the dinner scene because at first I thought it was Atticus who was mouthing off, because all three of those guys look so darn similar to me. Good lord, between that and the similarities between Mary's suitors, I don't know what the casting department is thinking.

 

- The Mary storyline tonight was lame and indulgent as always. Tony's attitude was super gross when he was calmly telling Blake that with Mary, basically "no" could mean "yes". I was also disgusted by how it was so easy for him to dismiss her explicit refusal of him, but he was willing to back off when he saw her kissing another man. I think I threw up in my mouth a little.

 

- I don't care if Tom leaves. He's become a bore to watch and it makes more sense for his character to strike out on his own.

 

- I really hope that Isobel doesn't back out of the marriage due to Lord Merton's horrid sons, but it's probably heading that way. Sigh.

 

- I like Rose and Atticus, but that kiss after his proposal? Worst. kiss. ever. It was almost like they expected for "cut" to be called right before the kiss because their lips were barely touching. It was really strange looking.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Cherpumple

[panthergirl13]

Anna gossiping about Mr. Drewe and the baby seemed really odd to me. Have we seen her say anything about Edith and the Drewes or the baby before? 

[Pogojoco]

My favorite scene tonight had to be when Atticus has made the revolutionary suggestion to Rose that the family might search for the missing Edith at, you know, the business she just inherited from Gregson.

 

Rose: How clever!

Atticus: It seems... rather obvious to me.

 

Good lord Atticus, get away from these people while there's still time.

 

 

Heeee Heeeeee

 

Also, Mary being genuinely gracious and kind about Isis was just insane. INSANE. Is the Atticus/Rose relationship not going insanely fast?

 

Larry Merton is hilariously evil. He insulted Isobel, Rose, Atticus, Tom and Mary in about 15 seconds. "Larry has been waiting in the car since he left the table"-as if that should make his dad shake a leg. 

[ZulaMay]

I think the Rose Atticus romance is meant to seem rushed, because they both admitted as much to each other.  I know this seems crazy because we barely know each other, but we're madly in love and let's get married!!

 

Clearly they adore each other and it's impossible not to root for them, especially given the obstacles they face and the snobbery of the worst human being ever to sit at the Crawley table, Larry Gray.  And his only slightly less awful brother Tim.  

 

Still, I think it is meant to seem a bit heedless and breathless and wild.  Those Crazy Kids!  But can it all be so easy....love conquers all?  IDK.  This is Downton we're talking about.

[Dust Bunny]

I loved this episode. There was a lot of devotion between many relationships. So much better than Bates' problems and other ratcheted up plots.

 

I didn't mean to wish for Isis' death when I wondered earlier how she could still be alive. I might have to cuddle with my pets a little extra tonight.

 

Maggie Smith is wonderful. Her conversation with Mary was so well done. You could tell she was letting down her guard and showing her sentimentality as a sort of momentary release. 

 

Mary should grow up and get over her Edith hate. She's lucky she's the eldest. She wouldn't have nearly as many admirers with her personality alone.

 

"Men don't have rights" is one of my favorite lines ever on this show. Looking at some American states' laws, I wish that could be the case sometimes. Women power!

[chocolatine]

Mary should grow up and get over her Edith hate. She's lucky she's the eldest. She wouldn't have nearly as many admirers with her personality alone.

 

 

I don't even get why Mary continues to be so hateful - it's not like Edith has anything for Mary to be jealous of. Edith is clearly the lesser-loved child, she's considered less attractive, she's been jilted at the altar, her lover is dead, and she'll probably die a spinster for all Mary knows. The last time Edith did anything bad to Mary is write to someone about Pamuk, and that was ages ago and no longer affects Mary in any way. I'm glad Violet finally said something.

 

I hope after the "adoption" is set up for Robert's and society's benefit - provided Mrs Drewe doesn't run off with Marigold - Edith takes Marigold and goes back to London, finds herself a nice apartment and a good nanny, and goes back to managing the publishing business. There'll still be nothing for her at Downton even with the child "legitimized".

 

The Mary-Gillingham-Blake-MLF plot was beyond stupid and I hope this was the last of it. It would be refreshing if, with Gillingham re-committed to MLF and Blake in Poland, Mary has to go for more than five minutes without a suitor.

 

I hope Isobel doesn't change her mind about marrying Merton because his son was rude to her. If the sons live in London, she wouldn't be seeing them much anyway, and she and Merton are so sweet together. Having said that, his sons' behavior doesn't speak highly of his parenting, but it's not like he and Isobel would be having children together. 

[NotBothered]

So I know the rumor is that they are killing off Isis because of ISIS, but it seems strange to spend so much time on it if that's the case, and I keep wondering how that timeline actually works out. Was ISIS making international news when they were filming? 

 

Poor Isobel.  I do wonder if we're supposed to see how terrible everyone else is in order to be reminded that the Crawley's are great. 

 

Bates and Anna....just UGH.  I've hated their plot-line, but never hated them, until this moment.  They were just TERRIBLE to Baxter, who is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters.  When Thomas has moral high ground on you, it's saying something.   I am finding myself really, really, really hoping they're written out after the Christmas special.  Brendan Coyle really seems like he's phoning it in (even more than some of Dan Steven's lesser work in S3).  

 

I love Atticus.  I hope they're around next season.  If all the people who could possibly be leaving actually leave, there's not much left.

 

ETA:  I will apparently continue to be the devil's advocate on the Mary/Edith situations.   Yes.  Mary is terrible, but they are both terrible.  But Mary does not have the entire story, and Edith continues to be petulant.  They both continue to play into the roles that were set up when they were teenagers.  If Edith wasn't such a wet noodle all the time and told Mary to f* off, I think she actually would.  Edith is awesome when she's away from Downton (I would sign up for a show about Edith running a magazine in London), but the second she's there the littlest thing sets her off moping in a corner.  I mean...look at her fashion choices between London and Downton.  Her editor dress was far and away the best thing she's worn all season (and the most spine she's shown).  No one is going to give her the respect she deserves unless she demands it.

Edited November 3, 2014 by NotBothered

[Eolivet]

Thus endeth the tenure of Charles Blake on Downton Abbey? Poland is about as volatile as Germany, so if they can't get Ovenden back, perhaps he will befall a similar fate to Gregson. The kiss was awkward, Mary was shocked, but didn't reciprocate, it didn't take her breath away or give her pause -- she just happily took his arm and went to dinner, snarking all the way. Again, if this is a recipe for a great love, I'm not seeing it.

 

Interesting Fellowes recycled Matthew's "I can't leave her -- it wouldn't be noble" excuse for Gillingham. I wish he'd made that clearer in Gillingham's initial upset about being dumped. Perhaps that scene wasn't meant to play as angrily as it did, and these later episodes have been damage control. Mabel Lane Fox remains a breath of fresh air, and she and Gillingham have a cute chemistry together. May they be happy, with my love.

 

Was that the same Marigold from the last episode? I swear, she looked younger last episode, but older this episode. Go figure. The kid who plays George is such a nonentity. Does he smile at all? Sybbie continues to act circles around the rest of the kids.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Eolivet

[Brn2bwild]

 

Poor Isobel.  I do wonder if we're supposed to see how terrible everyone else is in order to be reminded that the Crawley's are great.

 

Usually in these types of scenarios, the Lord Merton character would say "Fuck my family" and reaffirm his love for Isobel, who decides that her love for him is stronger than her disdain for his sons.  However, Fellowes will probably have them split up, because God forbid Isobel leave Downton.

[Brn2bwild]

Filming usually begins in late January/early February and continues through to August for the Christmas Special. ISIS was very much in the news for much of that time. It's not unprecedented for the series to make a narrative adjustment in response to real-world events; last season, it was the sudden disappearance of Dr. Clarkson after actor David Robb's wife committed suicide in July of that year. 

 

However, killing off Isis is ridiculous. What's next, re-naming the Egyptian goddess too? Insanity.

 

I choose to believe that killing off Isis is the most obvious way of showing that time is passing, since Granny is apparently ageless.  It would look crazy to have the same dog 10-12 years later (and many people believe that Isis is the same as the dog in Season 1).  The dog is hardly ever featured, so I can't believe fear of controversy would compel Fellowes to get rid of her.

[ajsnaves]

I can accept that people are stupid enough to think she is named after a terrorist group.  I don't think Fellows  would think that far in advance and plan on killing her off for that reason.  I just think it is an unfortunate coincidence and then the rumors spread.  Can we have a pool on what the next dog will be named?  How about Bast, goddess of Cats?  I just wanted to start crying when Robert when standing there holding Isis at the end.

 

How far away from Downton does Lord Merton live?  Would the Isobel, the new Countess of Merton, be unable to pop over to visit Violet?  I mean he seemed like he was walking over to Crawley House every day like a lost schoolboy.  Mary was able to pop up to London for a movie. (That was a movie right?) So they should be able to see each other semi-regularly.  Speaking of visiting Violet, I loved Spratt and his war with the new maid, but I kinda hope he really does leave.  And then Violet can hire Molesley,

[vesperholly]

If Edith wasn't such a wet noodle all the time and told Mary to f* off, I think she actually would.  ...  No one is going to give her the respect she deserves unless she demands it.

 

Probably, but she doesn't deserve Mary's cruelty simply for being a wet noodle. She's never going to be sassy, mouthy Mary, and that's hardly a bad thing.

 

However, killing off Isis is ridiculous. What's next, re-naming the Egyptian goddess too? Insanity.

 

Let's rename her "Freedom"

[ZulaMay]

Probably, but she doesn't deserve Mary's cruelty simply for being a wet noodle. She's never going to be sassy, mouthy Mary, and that's hardly a bad thing.

 

 

There is a difference between demanding respect and being an entitled, imperious Queen Bee.  Commanding respect entails earning it, which Mary doesn't do.  She just expects and demands it because she's always been given it no matter what.  Edith has tried to earn it and never gotten it even when she deserves it, so she gave up.  Trust me, I wish she would tell Mary to STFU and just stay in London as much as anyone does.  But she's Fellowes' butt monkey so that's not going to happen.  At this point none of the characters is being written at all realistically anyway, so I am just going to judge what I see.  And I see Mary being such a bitch that even Violet calls her out on it.  

 

NOTBOTHERED, ON 02 NOV 2014 - 8:28 PM, SAID:

 

Yes.  Mary is terrible, but they are both terrible.  But Mary does not have the entire story, and Edith continues to be petulant. 

 

I don't see Edith being terrible to Mary?  Because she said she doesn't want Mary "queening it over her" or because she wouldn't tell her about the baby and give her a "chance" to be understanding?  What reason does she have to trust in her sister given how Mary smacks her down for the least little thing she does?  So Edith is right to call her out on it.  I don't consider that petulant, I consider it the cold hard facts.  And it was not petulant to call out Mary on her smug little fashion show last episode.  Mary had enough of the story not to pull that crap:  Edith had just found out for sure her lover/boyfriend/whatever was murdered.  That's all the facts Mary needed.

There's mopey and there's terrible.  They are two completely different categories.  Anyway, it belongs in the E/M thread where all the facts can be laid on the table.

Edited November 3, 2014 by ZulaMay

[ZulaMay]

Deleted

Edited November 3, 2014 by ZulaMay

[Pogojoco]

I also enjoyed Mary's complete misreading of the Violet/Isobel dynamic and Violet setting her straight, point for point. 

[Llywela]

Anna gossiping about Mr. Drewe and the baby seemed really odd to me. Have we seen her say anything about Edith and the Drewes or the baby before? 

I didn't see Anna gossiping. I saw her confiding in Mrs Hughes about something that had bothered her - they were together when they found the photograph of Marigold in Edith's bed, so she took what she saw to the one person who had that other piece of related information. Mrs Hughes shut her down because she doesn't want either of them to start verbalising what it probably means - better to play dumb.

 

Poor Edith, overlooked in favour of a dog. But Cora was lovely with her.

 

That tiny moment when Mr Drew lifted Marigold into his lap on the train and told her it was all just a game broke my heart. It's nice for Edith that a solution has been found that allows her to keep Marigold with her, but none of this has been fair on the Drews. They bonded with Marigold, loved her - and are still being used even now. It really highlights the class divide - even the 'nice' toffs see the working class as basically there to do their bidding, rather than as people with minds and hearts of their own.

 

Violet kind of broke my heart as well, letting her guard down with Mary - who demonstrated that she did not understand her grandmother one single iota. I enjoyed Violet's smackdown of her at dinner. I also kind of enjoy seeing Violet at home, unable to control her warring servants, with Spratt ruling the roost - it drives home that Violet is an elderly lady, becoming frail, no longer exerting the power and control she once had. She can still put it on in public, but not so much at home.

 

I really want Isobel to marry Lord Merton and be happy, but it's looking unlikely.

 

Rose and Atticus are very cute. And so is little Sybbie!

[kpw801]

Anna gossiping about Mr. Drewe and the baby seemed really odd to me. Have we seen her say anything about Edith and the Drewes or the baby before? 

We haven't seen her say anything.  But remember when she and Mrs. Hughes were cleaning Edith's room after the fire, a look passed between them.  She only mentioned it to Mrs. Hughes and from the answer she got, it is obvious they were both wondering about the photo and the trip to Switzerland.  Now they both know.

[kpw801]

I was thrilled with Cora's reaction about the baby.  As for Mrs. Crawley, I hate to say it but boy when the shoe is on the other foot and "young people speak their minds" about her she isn't so much in love with them "standing up for their principles".  Rudeness is rudeness period!  That being said, both the boys were absolute asses!  I think Lord Merton is just about as clueless as Cora if after all these years he didn't expect his sons to pull a stunt like this.  He said they were just like his late wife - who I imagine was a nasty piece of work. 

 

I think Isobel and he would be able to do as Violet suggested in an earlier episode.  It is very easy to avoid people you don't like.  They won't be involved in their father's life and she should not let this keep her from marrying Merton if she loves him.  If she did, it wouldn't be quite normal for her character who thumbed her nose at the attitudes of the village about Ethel and was a staunch supporter of Mrs. Bunting.  I would love to see Violet put her feelings aside and lobby for her friend to seize the day and take the plunge and marry Lord Merton.  That would be lovely - absolutely lovely!

 

I think they are setting Tom and Mary up to be a couple.  From the way he and Robert were talking about who is next son-in-law would be and how he said they didn't want Tom to be alone forever.  Plus the way they are writing Tom always being the only one lately who can see the real Mary and how much nicer she is than people realize sounds a lot like the private conversations she used to have with Matthew.  Having a former chauffeur with the same dreams and vision for Downton as Matthew had as well as being a recent widower and part of the family already, I think Fellowes is headed that way with the character.  It seems obvious that Sybbie is not going to want to leave.  We will have to wait and see.

[kpw801]

I didn't see Anna gossiping. I saw her confiding in Mrs Hughes about something that had bothered her - they were together when they found the photograph of Marigold in Edith's bed, so she took what she saw to the one person who had that other piece of related information. Mrs Hughes shut her down because she doesn't want either of them to start verbalising what it probably means - better to play dumb.

 

Poor Edith, overlooked in favour of a dog. But Cora was lovely with her.

 

That tiny moment when Mr Drew lifted Marigold into his lap on the train and told her it was all just a game broke my heart. It's nice for Edith that a solution has been found that allows her to keep Marigold with her, but none of this has been fair on the Drews. They bonded with Marigold, loved her - and are still being used even now. It really highlights the class divide - even the 'nice' toffs see the working class as basically there to do their bidding, rather than as people with minds and hearts of their own.

 

Violet kind of broke my heart as well, letting her guard down with Mary - who demonstrated that she did not understand her grandmother one single iota. I enjoyed Violet's smackdown of her at dinner. I also kind of enjoy seeing Violet at home, unable to control her warring servants, with Spratt ruling the roost - it drives home that Violet is an elderly lady, becoming frail, no longer exerting the power and control she once had. She can still put it on in public, but not so much at home.

 

I hope they are setting the stage for Molesley to be promoted to butler for the Dowager.  Although maybe that wouldn't be such a great thing since what would he do if she didn't last long?  But there is only one more season left and if he were to get the job next series that would really be a nice ending for him.  I don't like Spratt anyway after he ruined Molesley's chance at a job with Lady Shackleton.

 

I don't think she is so frail or unable to handle her business, it is just that "servants are hard to come by" since the war.  A butler is very important and she doesn't want to have to deal with strange men and the risks.  I don't think she would want to hire a new butler no matter if she was Cora's age or younger.  Even Mary didn't want a stranger when she was planning to marry Carlisle.  I think Molesly would be a much better butler for her.  He is so malleable and kind natured.  I think Denker would like him too.

 

I really want Isobel to marry Lord Merton and be happy, but it's looking unlikely.

 

Rose and Atticus are very cute. And so is little Sybbie!

I can accept that people are stupid enough to think she is named after a terrorist group.  I don't think Fellows  would think that far in advance and plan on killing her off for that reason.  I just think it is an unfortunate coincidence and then the rumors spread.  Can we have a pool on what the next dog will be named?  How about Bast, goddess of Cats?  I just wanted to start crying when Robert when standing there holding Isis at the end.

 

How far away from Downton does Lord Merton live?  Would the Isobel, the new Countess of Merton, be unable to pop over to visit Violet?  I mean he seemed like he was walking over to Crawley House every day like a lost schoolboy.  Mary was able to pop up to London for a movie. (That was a movie right?) So they should be able to see each other semi-regularly.  Speaking of visiting Violet, I loved Spratt and his war with the new maid, but I kinda hope he really does leave.  And then Violet can hire Molesley,  ME TOO!

[Superpole2000]

I liked this episode, but I do wish the writing was more sophisticated. The Merton sons were as subtle as a mustache-twirling villain. And as usual, they went over the top with the "Edith is unimportant" theme, when discussing the fake adoption with the larger family. They never fail to hammer home that point...well...except once. They should have had Edith burst into flames during this season's fire, just so they could have had everyone walk by her as if nothing was wrong. 

 

Thomas made me laugh with his snarky, "Well spotted!" response to Molesly's realizaton that Daisy wouldn't listen to him. 

 

I can virtually guarantee that Baxter is going to die soon, and this Bates nastiness toward her is leading to a third murder investigation.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Superpole2000

[Ravenya003]

I enjoyed this episode, it actually made me feel something for the first time in ages.

 

Maggie Smith's scene in which Violet confesses her affection for Isobel was beautiful. Calling it now; Isobel is going to want to back out of the marriage and Violet is going to convince her that she deserves every happiness.

 

Strange to think a man as nice as Lord Merton could have two such awful sons.

 

Regarding the Mary/Edith situation - let's face it, they've always been at each other's throats. But I thought that Violet telling Mary that: "a lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears." Mary is obviously Fellowes's favourite, but I'd never accuse him of making her a Creator's Pet. He knows she has flaws, and he's not afraid to have other characters call her out on them.

 

I'm glad Edith has Marigold inside the house, but two problems immediately emerge - 1) that Mrs Drewe might still stir up trouble/gossip out of site, and 2) that Marigold is never really going to be treated in the same way as George and Sybbie are. They're the heirs, she's the foundling. That might well create bitterness in later years.

 

I suspect that perhaps a massive time-jump is about to happen. If Tom has decided to go to America with Sybbie, they may well decide to fast forward about five years in-between seasons, at which point he'll return. That would be a convenient way to age-up the kids into more interesting characters.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Ravenya003

[vesperholly]

Regarding the Mary/Edith situation - let's face it, they've always been at each other's throats. But I thought that Violet telling Mary that: "a lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears." Mary is obviously Fellowes's favourite, but I'd never accuse him of making her a Creator's Pet. He knows she has flaws, and he's not afraid to have other characters call her out on them.

 

I wish JF would just allow Mary to have a bit of compassion, and not just for the dog. I remember hating Mary for the first few episodes of S1, but then she had several "nicer" moments - getting William to see his dying mother, her affection for Carson - that made me think her more of a human character, with both flaws and features.

 

Reading the wiki on Downton Abbey's episodes really puts into perspective how quickly time moves on this show. In S1, there are six months between ep 2 and 3, and 9 months between 5 and 6. Completely incredible considering how slowly the plots move.

[Llywela]

Thomas made me laugh with his snarky, "Well spotted!" response to Molesly's realizaton that Daisy wouldn't listen to him.

And immediately followed it up with an effort to be nice, just for the sake of being nice, suggesting that Mr Mason be asked to intercede with Daisy - demonstrating what I suppose we already knew, that Thomas is very aware of the people around him, but also showing that he is capable of using that knowledge for good as well as evil, if he chooses. He was actively trying to be nice in this episode, and it was very noticeable as it is such a turnaround. We'll see if he can keep it up.

[NorthstarATL]

 

Strange to think a man as nice as Lord Merton could have two such awful sons.

 

I'm glad Edith has Marigold inside the house, but two problems immediately emerge - 1) that Mrs Drewe might still stir up trouble/gossip out of site, and 2) that Marigold is never really going to be treated in the same way as George and Sybbie are. They're the heirs, she's the foundling. That might well create bitterness in later years.

Unfortunately it's probably because Lord Merton is so nice that the two grew up with no consequences for their behavior. They may be his creation (and his curse).

 It would be nice if Edith could allow Mrs. Drewe some visitation, and somehow defuse the volatile situation, but I wouldn't count on it. I do hope, as an earlier poster suggested, that she focus now quite heavily on running the bussiness she inherited. It would give the character a purpose, and maybe some happiness.

   marigold will have the love and affection of those who know her lineage, but none of the obligations. She might be in a far better situation than her siblings.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

his sons' behavior doesn't speak highly of his parenting

To be fair, (1) he said that they take after their mother so it seems she had a hand in their snottiness and (2) as we have seen/heard in the Crawley family, the children are raised by nannies and only see their parents for maybe 15-30 minutes a day, if that. I'm not saying Lord Merton is entirely blameless since he is their father but given what he said about having to apologize for his son's crappy behavior, at least he is aware that his kid is an ass.

 

I hope that Isobel doesn't break off their engagement because of this. I really do understand how much it sucks to have horrible relatives because it makes family events painful, but it seems like it would be easy enough for her to only see Lord Merton's sons a few times a year. Given how obviously disdainful both of them are of her, I don't see them being eager to come to dinner regularly so she might only have to see them at major holidays like Christmas. 

 

I was totally onboard with Edith's plan to go to America with Marigold but I am glad that they had her explain that the reason she didn't go through with it was to keep the newspaper going. That is what Greggson left her so I can see her not wanting it to die due to her neglect. In addition, she knows that Marigold will not inherit as a Crawley so keeping the newspaper successful will allow her to leave something for Marigold when she is older.

[DianeDobbler]

Well, I enjoyed this episode - first I've enjoyed the whole series, although I've enjoyed bits and pieces of other episodes. If it weren't for the fact that I can't work out the screenwriter's (Fellowes') timeline, I would swear this episode was a bit fan service-y, giving fans who've pushed back against Fellowes' chosen ones a little something. Not only did Violet smack down Mary at the dinner table about Edith, but she also smacked her down after Violet confided in her about Isobel. She explains to Mary that Isobel means something to her as a friend, Mary responds that Violet has the rest of them, Violet says it's not the same, and that Violet and Isobel have a lot in common (what an enormous admission that "in common" remark was from Violet, and Maggie Smith was so wonderful in this entire scene). Mary remarks that her grandmother is getting positively misty, and she never took her for being sentimental. There's a way of cloaking real feeling behind that sort of remark, where your intonation can be warm, indicating you mean the opposite of your words, and there's what Mary did, which was sort of paper over it. I LOVED when Violet immediately said she was very sorry she had shared anything with Mary, and instructed her to eat some cake. One reproof might be just lip service, two reproofs from Violet towards Mary in the same episode for being a bitch is making a point. In prior episodes the "Mary is a bitch" stuff was done with affection - admitting she could SEEM like one, but being sure to deal with the point with affection/admiration. In this one episode there wasn't any of that. Mary even came off callous when she saw Edith at the train station - she didn't know what was going on, but the juxtaposition of her sister and mother (and secret niece) trying to manage everything with discretion, while Mary is typically oblivious to other people's concerns, appeared intentional.

 

A couple of the actors have said that Fellowes writes to what the actors do on screen. I don't think the timing works for that to have impacted the turnaround on Gillingham, but I found it startling that Blake told Gillingham he was far more natural and relaxed with Mabel (it was ONE scene last episode), and that it was sort of put on Mary, not Gillingham, that Gillingham hadn't gone away. That's a re-write. When it first happened, Gillingham wouldn't take no for an answer. This episode, it was entirely his obligation after having slept with her, and he was all "You had only to tell me." as if he'd been this reasonable all along.

 

Rose and Atticus are awfully rushed, and I agree about the kiss. I think it's because, as convincing as Atticus is that he's a nice, lovely man infatuated with Rose, the two of them are only called upon to play this sort of giddiness with each other, so it's hard to determine if there's a genuine connection there in quieter modes.

 

Last episode Isobel told Violet that her marriage to Lord Merton would be her last big adventure before she was "done". She didn't say she was surprised to find herself in love with him, or anything along those lines. After this episode and the treatment from his sons, I can see her deciding this is not her idea of an adventure and calling it off. I'll feel bad for Lord Merton if that's what happens. The dinner table scene was ridiculous - I simply don't believe the two bad sons would be that heavy handed. Not the style of the times. More the knife in the ribs than the club over the head.

 

More fan service: the often insufferable Bates, and his martyred wife are WRONG? Are SEEN to be wrong? Are petulant dicks about it? Seemed out of character to me BECAUSE Bates is such a martyr and in the past even went out of his way to help Thomas, who had actively tried to destroy his life, and here he's being blinkered about such an obviously good soul as Baxter. I did love Thomas being nice to all three - Daisy, Baxter and Mosley, and enjoyed Baxter/Daisy/Mosley at the farm very much. Love Daisy's father-in-law, as always.

 

I find Cora's solution to Marigold a bit dubious BUT Edith has demonstrated that she's devoted to that girl, and she's also clear that she doesn't want her father to know, and I imagine it's better for Marigold to be raised with Sybil and George on equal terms. I did love them finding Edith at the publishing business, and Cora referring to "your employees." Cora is oblivious most of the time, but when she's made aware, I do like how she reacts much of the time. I liked that she immediately identified Edith's dilemma with Violet and Rosemund's solutions as she did NOT want to be separated from/lose her child, I liked that she would have been supportive if Edith had gone to America (this episode re-emphasized that Edith is NOT Sybil when it comes to standing up social convention), and realizing Edith wanted to keep an eye on the publishing business, came up with the ward/nursery solution. I find it so odd that Edith is living a completely unconventional life, but emotionally speaking, doesn't own it. She's running a publishing business and writes a column. She had an affair with her boss and kissed him in public. She's worn some very daring clothes (and looked gorgeous last night). She learned to drive when almost nobody knew how to drive. She does these things, but emotionally, doesn't appear to embrace what it means, even though she enjoys it. She still wants the approval she doesn't get.

Edited November 4, 2014 by DianeDobbler

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I LOVED when Edith tried to blow off Cora at the office and Cora's immediate response was to threaten to yell about Marigold in front of everyone at the newspaper. Hee, way to call her bluff! I think often Cora is a bit passive in Crawley family affairs so it was nice to see her get assertive about wanting to discuss this with Edith and fix things.

 

I liked that Violet admitted that she really valued her friendship with Isobel. It's just too bad that the person who admitted it to was Mary who was of course A Total Mary in the way she responded. "Gee, granny, you have actual feelings?" I don't think Violet necessarily regretted verbalizing her feelings about Isobel. She just regretted that she made the mistake of verbalizing those feelings to Mary. If she had said the same thing to Cora (well, before tonight since Cora is now royally pissed at Violet), she would have responded warmly and in a supportive way.

 

Mary's utter lack of interest in her sister was best summed up thusly: "Why the song and dance? Edith's gone away. So what?" Even after all the bitchiness of last week, I was still surprised when she said that in such a cold way.

 

Robert is an ass but I can't even watch a fake doggie death without getting upset. To be honest, I kind of hope that they don't show Isis dying and the family mourning in the next episode. I would prefer a time skip and one of them mentioning how much they miss the dog with nothing more because I can't handle sobbing over the death of Isis. I was a wreck with Sammy died on Revenge!

[ZulaMay]

 

I think they are setting Tom and Mary up to be a couple.  From the way he and Robert were talking about who is next son-in-law would be and how he said they didn't want Tom to be alone forever.  Plus the way they are writing Tom always being the only one lately who can see the real Mary and how much nicer she is than people realize sounds a lot like the private conversations she used to have with Matthew.  Having a former chauffeur with the same dreams and vision for Downton as Matthew had as well as being a recent widower and part of the family already, I think Fellowes is headed that way with the character.  It seems obvious that Sybbie is not going to want to leave.  We will have to wait and see.

 Oh God that thought just turns my stomach.  Tom who love Sybil, had principles and goals, was a journalist and wanted to work for his country's freedom.....stuck in that house for the rest of his life propping up her wealth and privilege, making it his life's work and having the chore of always reminding his wife she's nicer than she seems?  What a sick thought.  When he had the sister who didn't need to be REMINDED she was nice because she just was and always acted that way.

 

He deserves so much better, and if they do this they will have killed Sybil the progressive sister to serves Mary's story and completely change his character to suit her needs.  I didn't mind her marrying Matthew because that made sense in the narrative but Tom?  That's just lazy and it's using Tom's character.  I hate how they just use characters as plot devices for Mary, especially when said character had a life and purpose in his own right and served the OTHER sister's character.

 

It would be like killing Sybil all over again and dismantling Tom's character even further.

 

And Matthew just turned into her doormat when he married her, gave up his own life and character entirely.  I didn't like that either.  I prefer Blake because he is the character he has always been and wouldn't HAVE to change for Mary.  And he's not a sweet, affectionate sort like Tom who would mind if his wife didn't want to hold his hand in public.  Tom and Sybil always held hands.  That's who Tom is.

 

I like them as brother/sister but that's it.  Cannot see any romantic chemistry or even passion.  It would be dull and depressing.  Same with Tom/Edith.

 

I hope that was just a nice Robert/Tom conversation and nothing more.  He did mention that all he would wish in Tom's wife was she be friendly with the family, not that she shares their values.  And Tom doesn't share them all (or their politics) and he isn't afraid to say so now.  So to me it makes more sense that this was setting him up to meet the sort of person Robert was describing.  Not someone like Mary.

 

And also to show that he DOES like Tom as a son-in-law now.  The fact that he would have liked Toff Tony doesn't mean he likes Tom any less.  Just that they would be equal in his eyes, just different.

 

I got that sense from the conversation.  As for Tom reminding Mary she's nice....maybe that's just him filling the Matthew role to "tell" us she's nice because right now no one else is inclined to do it.  And why should they be?  She needed Matthew to do it and right now she has no one, so Tom is just filling that role....as a brother.

Edited November 3, 2014 by ZulaMay

[Cherpumple]

I completely agree with ZulaMay's reaction to a Tom/Mary hook up. It would be a revolting betrayal of both Tom and Sybil, and quite frankly, I don't think Mary would go for it anyway. The whole idea makes no sense to me in any way, and if that is the end game I will rue the day I ever started watching this show.

 

I think Edith's reaction to seeing Mary on the platform at the rail station tells me everything I need to know about their relationship and about Mary in general. That wasn't just an "oh crap, I was really hoping I could contain this information a little longer" type reaction, it was absolute panic. She was completely terrified of Mary seeing her in a way that goes far beyond "we just don't get along". It was pretty sad to watch, especially since Mary was just blithely and bitchily carrying on with her life, completely unaware that she has that effect on her own sister. Although she probably wouldn't care even if she did know, which is even sadder.

 

They might be setting up Rose to have a failed engagement because his family doesn't approve that she's NOT Jewish. What a twist! (sarcasm). Part of me thinks that Fellowes wouldn't have two simultaneous storylines about engagements in which the fiance's family doesn't approve of the Crawley woman, but then I laugh at myself for thinking such a thing because repetition has never been an obstacle on this show.

 

I agree with the poster above who thinks a significant time jump may be in the offing. With Tom and Blake on their way out and a few pending weddings, I could easily see the next series starting with the men returning from their adventures, a now-widowed Isobel teaming up with Violet again, and some of the downstairs staff either retired or managing their own properties. We'll see.

 

Finally, I can't take Spratt seriously as the snob to end all snobs when he looks so much like a young Buddy Hackett. It just doesn't work for me!

[abbyzenn]

Another enjoyable episode.

Loved Tom's reaction  to Larry.  Thought it funny how scandalous the downstairs staff seemed at Tom's actions/word.

 

Thought it funny that Atticus had to come up with the solution as to where Edith might be. 

 

I can usually just roll with the plot holes because  I enjoy this show for the mindless entertainment, beautiful clothes, scenery.  But one gaping hole that left me totally perplexed is Cora's Marigold plan.  Where is Marigold now?  When they were discussing Edith "adopting" Marigold was she upstairs in the nursery or with the Drewes?

 

I do hope Mrs. Drewe ends up spilling the beans about Edith.  It would serve her (Edith) right.

Edith and now Cora have certainly used the Drewes for their own purposes without thinking of the effect on the Drewes.  But I guess that's how you treat your tenants.

 

Loved loved loved the scene with Tom and Sybbie.  That child has the most delightful smile.  It was nice to see that he does actually spend some time with her outside the tea time.

[Llywela]

I can usually just roll with the plot holes because  I enjoy this show for the mindless entertainment, beautiful clothes, scenery.  But one gaping hole that left me totally perplexed is Cora's Marigold plan.  Where is Marigold now?  When they were discussing Edith "adopting" Marigold was she upstairs in the nursery or with the Drewes?

She was with the Drews. It was all laid out in Cora's plan: return to Yorkshire and have Mr Drew collect Marigold from the train and take her home with him while they carry on to Downton to tell the family that Edith had been asked to take the child and gain Robert's consent. The next stage was for Edith to collect Marigold from the Drews and bring her to the Abbey, as if she'd been with them all along.

 

Mr Drew was the only ally they could turn to for this, but it really was inappropriate - and after Cora herself had agreed with Mrs Drew that she'd been used horribly, the Drews' family had been turned upside down through all this, and then they are put upon again, asked to take the child back just as a stopgap arrangement. At least it'd give them a chance to say goodbye properly. But then we saw Mr Drew being so lovely with Marigold on the train, it underlined how poorly he and his family have been treated through all this. They did nothing to bring it upon themselves. Edith approached him on a whim because she knew he was loyal and because he lived close by, and for no better reason than that. His family were imposed upon when it suited and discarded when it suited, then imposed upon again, when it was known that they'd bonded with the child and grieved to have her taken away so abruptly. The whole thing sits alongside Mary's treatment of Anna during the birth control incident as a glaring example of how thoughtlessly cruel these people can be where the serving/working class are concerned.

 

And I'd say that they absolutely cannot rely on Mrs Drew's silence!

 

Speaking of which - apparently Anna told Bates the whole story about Mary and the birth control off-screen, then. And he wondered what Mary might want it for...he seriously can't guess?

Edited November 3, 2014 by Llywela

[DianeDobbler]

Oh God. Well someone I know (a former actress, yet) - declared months ago she figured it would be Tom and Mary in the end. You know despite her being a Grade A1 bitch and snob Fellowes has taken pains to trot out her liberalism in other aspects - such as Jack and Rose, such as her attitude towards Tom, which goes way back to when she applauded Matthew announcing Tom as his best man in front of everyone at the dinner table. And now they appear to be rushing the only other obvious "tie it neatly up in a bow" option for Tom - Rose - into a marriage with her opposite number (Atticus). "Tie up neatly in a bow" = keep all the key characters living in that house. That's what it means for Fellowes. I HOPE this is not the case but Fellowes just got rid of the Identikit suitors and certainly Mary can't exist without prospects.

 

Just restating how I loved Maggie Smith's playing of the scene with Mary, talking about Isobel. I love how Mary's view of the friendship was Isobel looking up to/admiring Violet, and Violet tutoring/role modeling for Isobel the ways of the county and the ways of "our kind". And here is Violet, so clearly impacted by "losing Isobel", looking straight at Mary and saying she doesn't believe Isobel has EVER looked up to or admired Violet. You can't make a stronger declaration of pure friendship than that. There's no "advantage" of that sort Isobel sees in being friends with Violet, and no ego boost to Violet. I think the "we have a lot in common" was one of the most moving things Violet ever said - it was so genuine and not soppy. It's clear she's come round to facing the value this friendship has for her and isn't embarrassed by it, but ITA, DID regret telling Mary, specifically, as it was all wasted on Mary.

 

I suppose it makes a bit of sense that Mrs. Hughes and Carson would have enough put by to purchase a cottage or something - they live at Downton and get room and board, so they could have saved up a bit over the years. It's amusing that Daisy's father-in-law of one day is a comfortable farmer who has adopted her in his heart as his daughter and heir, and that Mrs. Patmore has a relative who left her money, so some of the key downstairs crowd have a safety net beneath them when the Big House system falls more and more apart in the coming decades. I totally believe Thomas should go to America. Good looking, British accent, (under) butler to an English earl - there are soon-to-be-movie stars and all kinds of socialites who'd be competing for the status of having him be major domo in their households.

 

OTOH, I guess both Crawley sisters are without prospects at the moment, and a lot of stuff seems to be being wrapped up, so perhaps all this is merely deck-clearing and Fellowes has a better/smarter game plan in mind for Series 6 than he did the past two series. The past two series he banked on us being fascinated with Mary and her suitors, and that didn't work out so well.

[ZoloftBlob]

she also smacked her down after Violet confided in her about Isobel. She explains to Mary that Isobel means something to her as a friend, Mary responds that Violet has the rest of them, Violet says it's not the same, and that Violet and Isobel have a lot in common

 

I'm trying to not encourage the Mary Hate Train but.... where does Mary get off still having class issues over the mother of the man she married?

 

I'm also seeing the Mary/Tom end game and I really don't like it. It also completely screws over the earlier stories.

[brisbydog]

Again with the scenes I want to see taking place off screen (this week Mrs Drewe telling Cora about Edith, last week Edith learning about Gregson's death). I don't understand why we have to see boring drivel like Mary's hair cut and (this time) Mary's boyfriends chat at the gazebo when scenes which are huge pay offs to ongoing plots are not shown. Drives me crazy!

 

I wonder if Bates will kill Baxter now?

[ZulaMay]

ZoloftBob, I wouldn't be so sure Rose and Atticus are going to ride off happily into the sunset.  You've gotten a gay vibe off of both Matthew and Blake.  Not Atticus?  I do.  And his kiss with Rose was awkward.  He seems rather too perfect and puppyish.  I can't explain it, I just have a feeling.  They were banging on last night about how they didn't want to wait, they barely knew each other but they were so in love!  Those crazy kids.

 

They are making it seem like the religious difference will be the problem, but that might be a red herring.  I think they might pull a switch and have something else be the problem. Because it's true, they barely know each other.  It all seemed weirdly rushed and they even seem to be making a point of saying it.

 

Then there's what Mary said earlier in the season about needing to make sure she and Tony were compatible in the bedroom.  What about Rose and Atticus?

 

I completely agree with ZulaMay's reaction to a Tom/Mary hook up. It would be a revolting betrayal of both Tom and Sybil, and quite frankly, I don't think Mary would go for it anyway. The whole idea makes no sense to me in any way, and if that is the end game I will rue the day I ever started watching this show.

 

​I feel the same way.  If they do that I will seriously wish I never heard of this damned show.  Sybil was my favorite sister and they were my favorite couple.  Tom with Mary would be a betrayal of her memory, of what she and they represented.  They will have literally changed him into a different character altogether:  Matthew 2.0.  There to help run the estate, serve Mary's sexual needs and tell her how nice she REALLY is whenever it is in doubt....which is always.

 

I would be sick.   And IMO it would not work on any level, be a cheat and a cop-out and a huge disappointment in general.  I don't think they have any sexual chemistry.  They seem like siblings so the idea is doubly creepy.  

 

I still have some hop for Rose.  That is if my Atticus theory proves to be correct.

Edited November 3, 2014 by ZulaMay

[abbyzenn]

Thanks Llywela.    Guess I just  blanked out on another stupid "how can I have Marigold without the world knowing she's really my daughter" scheme and Edith's complete look of disdain when Cora mentioned Mrs. Drewe had my blood boiling again.

 

I applaud Mrs. Drewe having the courage to go to Cora.  I'm not surprised that we didn't get to see this scene - it would be a difficult one to write.

[ZoloftBlob]

You've gotten a gay vibe off of both Matthew and Tom.  Not Atticus?

 

Just Matthew - Tom always seemed very into girls while Matthew was all about being horrified at the notion that his swinging bachelor life of breakfast with mommy and dorking about on his bike was threatened.

 

Attiticus? Not sure. I kinda see the religious thing being the plot point of horror there.

[romantic idiot]

Both the Bateses can be written off the show, for all I care. Do they understand Baxter didn't have a choice about speaking to the police? They came to question her, not vice versa. Bad enough we've had MANPAINING Bates, but now Anna is doing it too, and going around trying to stir the pot about the baby on the train. Enough.

But the Bates's did not know that Baxter had to tell the police. Moreover, I don't think they were unhappy about Baxter answering the police when questioned - i think they got the impression that Baxter was the one who was feeding the police the information because of which they kept coming around. At least, that's where I think they came from. And note, nice though Thomas is, he's still not willing to step forward and admit to being the one to put Baxter in the difficult position in the first place. 

 

Speaking of the Mertons, I had to rewind the dinner scene because at first I thought it was Atticus who was mouthing off, because all three of those guys look so darn similar to me. Good lord, between that and the similarities between Mary's suitors, I don't know what the casting department is thinking.

 

I think they are going for a little bit of realism? The Mertons are supposed to be related, and with the amount of inbreeding going on in the aristocracy, I wouldn't be surprised if they all had  a certain look. Or maybe the casting director &/or Fellowes like that look. 

 

Re: Robert's care of Isis and neglect of his daughter - I've found that to be true of a lot of pet owners I know. 

[Avaleigh]

I really enjoyed the episode. I felt like it had a little bit of everything that I like when it comes to this show. Anna and Bates were a drag as I feel they've generally been lately but other than that I found myself very entertained by the rest of it.

 

I think Rose and Atticus are sweet and don't really mind that it's happening so fast. I definitely look forward to seeing the Sinderbys interact with the Flintshires. Lol over Atticus pointing out the obvious to the family as to Edith's whereabouts.

 

Loved Tom calling Larry a bastard to his face. It's too bad Downton already got in its yearly punch with Robert/Brickson because Larry really had it coming. I agree though that it was unrealistic that he'd be so rude at the table. If it he'd snubbed Isobel in a subtle way it would have made a lot more sense. It also would have been nice to have the other son be a little bit more like Lord Merton to balance out the unpleasantness. I feel like this episode pretty much confirmed that Isobel's relationship with Merton is doomed. Too bad.

 

I thought it was sweet how touched Baxter was after witnessing Daisy's relationship with Mr Mason. 

 

I laughed when Blake called Gillingham an "Old Dear". 

 

I was thrilled with Cora's reaction about the baby.

 

 

I was too. I knew she'd be supportive of Edith if Edith would just have the courage to be honest with her. Cora has been supportive, loving, and encouraging of Edith from what I've seen in the past so I was really glad to see her demonstrate her qualities as a mother to Edith in this episode. She showed herself to be trustworthy by keeping Edith's secret, she came up with a plan, she showed a genuine interest and immediate love for a grandchild of Edith's. She went after Edith and made it clear that she wants her with the family. 

 

Just restating how I loved Maggie Smith's playing of the scene with Mary, talking about Isobel. I love how Mary's view of the friendship was Isobel looking up to/admiring Violet, and Violet tutoring/role modeling for Isobel the ways of the county and the ways of "our kind". And here is Violet, so clearly impacted by "losing Isobel", looking straight at Mary and saying she doesn't believe Isobel has EVER looked up to or admired Violet. You can't make a stronger declaration of pure friendship than that. There's no "advantage" of that sort Isobel sees in being friends with Violet, and no ego boost to Violet. I think the "we have a lot in common" was one of the most moving things Violet ever said - it was so genuine and not soppy. It's clear she's come round to facing the value this friendship has for her and isn't embarrassed by it, but ITA, DID regret telling Mary, specifically, as it was all wasted on Mary.

 

 

I loved this scene. I couldn't believe how wrong Mary was in her assessment of the Isobel/Violet friendship. I disagree though that Violet's comments were wasted on Mary. I definitely feel like Mary has been learning more and more about Violet as a person this season and certainly think that Mary sees her in a different way now than she did at the start of the season. I think Mary admires Violet in many ways and maybe that's where that bizarre comment came from. IDK. I understood Mary's assumption though that what Violet was really more upset about was Isobel becoming a "great lady of the county". I still think it's partially true on some level that Violet refuses to recognize but also think Violet was mostly being genuine when she explained that she's used to having a good friend around now and doesn't want the dynamic to change. (Seriously though, Isobel wouldn't even be moving out of the county so what is the big deal here? They could easily see each other every week.)

 

My favorite quote was definitely Violet telling Mary that a lack of compassion is as vulgar as a display of tears (paraphrasing). Mary needed to hear it. I'll admit though I LOL at her first comment indicating that she couldn't have cared less because I couldn't help but imagine viewer reaction here, haha.

 

I also liked that Mary was counseling Violet and not being so obvious about the fact that she isn't pleased about the engagement of Isobel and Merton. Mary was wrong in her assessment of the relationship between Violet and Isobel but I thought she was right to call Violet out on being a bit obvious that she isn't happy about the union and that Violet should basically do the right thing by grinning and bearing it.

 

Somebody needs to ask Mary if she ever actually listens to how heartless she sounds at times. I thought Mabel Lane Fox might have had a look of 'wow, Mary really is a stone cold bitch where her sister is concerned' but there was virtually no reaction to Mary's comment. I at least expected this sensible outsider to raise her eyebrows and maybe exchange a look with Blake or Gillingham after Mary made the comment but...nothing. Nobody really cared the first time around and the second comment of Mary's where Violet took her to task it was as though nobody else heard or cared. It just seemed so unnecessary of Mary to be so loud and open with her declarations especially when she can acknowledge in private with Anna that Edith's situation really isn't a joking matter at this point.

[ZulaMay]

Just Matthew - Tom always seemed very into girls while Matthew was all about being horrified at the notion that his swinging bachelor life of breakfast with mommy and dorking about on his bike was threatened.

 

Attiticus? Not sure. I kinda see the religious thing being the plot point of horror there.

I meant to say Blake, not Tom.  Sorry.  No Tom seems very hetero.

 

But I am not sure about Atticus.  Whether it's that or not I think there will be a problem.  It might be the religion or it might not.  It's just too fast.

 

there is a pic from 5.08 of Atticus in a bedroom in his bathrobe with a hooker.  We know she's a hooker because she's on the cast list for the episode.  Now, this could of course be a trick or misunderstanding but based on the order of the pics and the cast list it appears this scene takes place after the wedding, not before.  I think Atticus is a nice guy so IMO if it's not just a trick than he is with her because he is having trouble functioning for some reason.  Gay or Virgin/Whore complex?  IDK.  It's just a theory but it was a storyline on the old Upstairs/Downstairs.  And we know JF loves to copy from other shows, including that one.

 

We'll see.

[DianeDobbler]

Have we been told that Series 6 is the last Downtown series?

 

If we were earlier in the run of the show, I'd guess that Atticus/Rose was intentionally rushed, augering problems ahead. However, if it's a housekeeping plot point, and Mary/Tom are slated as a couple to come, then I'd view it as a hustle and WE'RE the ones getting rushed into it - they're perfect for each other, yes it's rushed, Atticus is just "unconventional" (Jewish) enough for Rose to maintain her status as the free-thinker of the family, but come on Atticus is adorable sometimes these things happen this way! And done - so much for Rose. Fellowes has never shown much interest in writing for her. Her stuff just sets up other characters.

 

About Anna going to Mrs. Hughes about the child on the train - it was how it was written and played. It felt off-tone, and deliberately so to make Anna seem nosy/set her up for a reproof from Mrs. Hughes. There are many ways to cover Anna for asking that question, and many ways for her to ask that question that position her as discreet, and relying upon subtext. Instead it played as if she were telling tales and Mrs. Hughes had to shut her down. As with Mary, it was HOW Mrs. and Mrs. Bates, and Mary, were presented to us this episode that was different. In the past we've been cued to completely root on the Bateses, and as for Mary, we've been cued to recognize her bitchy side, but in a "isn't she just awful but she's so Mary!" sort of way. In this episode, not only were there the moments already noted, but something about the scene at the train station seemed especially presented to make Mary appear insipid.

[bluebonnet]

I was hoping Isobel would tell Lord Merton's wretched boys that if they are worried she wanted to replace their mother they should think about how much it sickens her to have sons like them after Matthew.  I kinda hope she goes to meet with them and tells them this.  

 

Anna and Mr. Bates were really out of character it seemed.  

 

Poor Marigold.  

[vesperholly]

Again with the scenes I want to see taking place off screen (this week Mrs Drewe telling Cora about Edith, last week Edith learning about Gregson's death). I don't understand why we have to see boring drivel like Mary's hair cut and (this time) Mary's boyfriends chat at the gazebo when scenes which are huge pay offs to ongoing plots are not shown. Drives me crazy!

 

Even worse this week - who cares about a walk in the park with Gillingham et al? At least three separate scenes of plotting to cheer up Daisy? They need to show all that but not Cora learning that her daughter got pregnant out of wedlock, had a baby, was keeping said baby stashed away at a nearby farm? Show, WTF.

[ZoloftBlob]

I meant to say Blake, not Tom.  Sorry.  No Tom seems very hetero.

 

Oh *Blake* is a different story indeed. :)

 

As in I think "going to Poland" is code for "Mary, I've had this delightful job opportunity come in from the Crawley Caribbean Boat Cruises for Gentleman Sailors and Effete Pirates" personally.

[ZulaMay]

I think "going to Poland" is code for "the actor was busy with another project so they sent him away for a while, leaving open the possibility of his returning in the CS or S6 just as Mary is getting involved with someone else."

 

I think S6 was said to be the last but recently Allen Leech said he thinks 7 would be ideal and necessary to wrap up the stories, or something.  So that might be code for "we'll do Series 7 if the ratings are still high enough to rake in a lot of dough."

 

I did think Atticus was "housekeeping" to marry off Rose because Lily was leaving, and that might be the case.  But IDK.  This past episode made me start to doubt that.  There was so much talk of how fast it was moving, even from the two of them.  Rose seemed to be acting very impulsive and caught up in the whirlwind romance.  She mentioned they don't know each other that well.  But they're throwing caution to the wind despite knowing the risks.   When does that ever work out well on this show?

 

It could be another situation like with Blake.  They left it open to give them room to go either way, depending on her decision and schedule and where JF chooses to take it.  He really does make up a lot of this stuff as he goes along.