S03.E04: Dimebag

[maraleia]

 

Philip faces a moral dilemma while developing an asset. Philip and Elizabeth’s friction escalates. Stan develops a theory with serious repercussions for national security. Paige makes a surprising birthday wish.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJN-BjAo20

[stillshimpy]

Huh, given the "Paige makes a surprising birthday wish" and Elizabeth saying, "She set us up" ....what do you want bet the Paige wished something like "I wish my dad would find Jesus" or something of that nature?  Father Tim of The Order of the Body Wave is likely sitting in the living room, waiting to either sell them on the Lord or stump for Paige being allowed to be a camp counselor at Lake Find Jesus this summer or something. 

 

It just seems like the "Paige makes a surprising wish" and the "she set us up" are likely related.  

[sistermagpie]

I think Paige's wish is that she wants to be baptized with her parents there supporting her etc. 

[stillshimpy]

Oh I bet you're right!! That would actually fit with a couple of the season previews also, since there is footage of Paige being baptized.  

Edited February 18, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Umbelina]

Oh my.

 

That was seriously good.  Not one story was boring, everything was clicking, the first episode this season that I feel reached season 1 & 2 levels of great.

 

Nina back to betrayal, so glad they found something for her to do, even if they may be lying about releasing her.

 

Stan wasn't boring!  Every scene he had was good, and I don't say that often.  I loved him tearing apart that bathroom.

 

The creepiness of Philip with the little horny Goldilocks, pared with the Paige story is just so good.

 

Paige and the baptism, and every Philip/Elizabeth interaction was just perfection. 

 

It's REALLY back now.

[AimingforYoko]

Yaz? Really? I figured Paige for a Journey girl. 

 

 

I think Paige's wish is that she wants to be baptized with her parents there supporting her etc. 

Nice call there.

 

Damn, Phillip looks uncomfortable. You'd think Martha would've toughened him up for the skeevy stuff. Nice to see there's a line for him, though.

[Primetimer]

Amid all the other lying they have to do as a matter of course, Elizabeth and Philip have to spend Paige's fifteenth birthday pretending her choice of party guests doesn't gross them out.

Read the story

[soapfaninnc]

Elizabeth is such a bitch. 'Who wears the pants in the family?' And how DARE Phillip buy his daughter a present without her majesty's express approval. I was GLAD Paige set her up.

 

She better be headed for a reality check soon or I'm going to have to tune out. She's insufferable. 

 

And this Phillip seduces the teenager is nauseating.

 

Stan still sucks.

[RedHawk]

In the hallway after the EST meeting was Stan wearing a Members Only jacket? He must've been the first member.

[RazzleberryPie]

Another boring episode :-(

 

I did like seeing Nina and hope she gets out of that prison, even if she double crosses or whatever that Belgian girl.

Phillip and this teen girl are just gross. I cringe at Martha, but can handle it bc she's an adult. 

Stan is boring, but I'm glad he's admitting he was a cheating asshole.

Paige, Paige, Paige. She's  exactly like Elizabeth, but her passions are just different. They're both stubborn, quiet, passionate, pretty good at manipulating and underestimated. I think Elizabeth could flip her she somehow manages to shatter her faith (I really hate saying that) and turn her toward socialism/equality through communism instead of left wing Christianity.

[RedHawk]

That Belgian girl is an idiot if she falls for Nina's con. I mean really, Nina was aggressively silent for how many days, then suddenly she's chatty Cathy? And that obvious asking about a boyfriend and "you're so pretty". Nina's game is lame, but I guess it's gonna work... she's going to get back to Oleg (or Stan?) somehow.

 

I have to agree -- I didn't feel it was a great episode. The little things were there: I liked Phillip using his ill-gotten knowledge to buy a "cool" album for Paige. I liked "Jim" and Kimmie hanging out smoking a joint in front of what looked like the Supreme Court building. Yeah, security was that lax back then. Elizabeth's head about to explode over Paige's baptism announcement. Yet somehow I feel there are too many players and the stories are moving too slowly. We know there are only so many episodes so I need the tension to be tighter, and I will be disappointed if everything revolves around telling Paige "who she really is", but that looks to be where we're headed.

Edited February 19, 2015 by RedHawk

[benteen]

Really good episode.  All of the storylines are strong.

 

Elizabeth has gone all full metal commie with the whole Paige recruitment thing.  She's the true believer and unbelievably dense and blind when it comes to this matter.  Philip's surrounded on all sides here and I'm not sure what he does next.  I did laugh at the Martha line though.

 

Stan's quest to get Sandra back is pathetic though I really like his growing realization that something is not right with that Russian woman.

 

Though I do love how freaked out Philip and Elizabeth get on the whole religion thing.  This episode pretty much confirms that they were never involved with a church just to keep up appearances.

 

Philip and Kimmy is definitely gross.

[Ellaria]

Ugh - Stan. He has some sort of epiphany and runs to Sandra to tell her that he loved the woman that he had the affair with. I'm sure that's just what she wanted to hear. And who is paying for the mess that he made in the diner's rest room? Stan is in need of character rehabilitation soon.

It's getting a bit difficult to watch Elizabeth's determination to make Paige an asset. Phillip and the teenager should prove interesting and disturbing.

[gwhh]

I love how one moment elizabeth turning Paige into a good little KGB agent even if dad doesn't like that! Too bad Phillip! I wear the pants here, just like Marta!

The next moment Paige is professing her love to jeaus! No way she going to work for the godless communist!

I love how john boy says to stan: we got to make sure she the real deal! Do whatever it takes! God I miss the Cold War!

Edited February 19, 2015 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

What's the story with the AA sponsor Elizabeth is working?  I've forgotten why she's there, or don't we know yet?

 

Was there something under that ceiling that Stan missed?  I thought something looked odd on the far right.

[benteen]

BTW, like the quick scene with Philip and Henry.  Henry is the one they should be grooming as a spy.

[RedHawk]

What's the story with the AA sponsor Elizabeth is working?  I've forgotten why she's there, or don't we know yet?

 

 

She works for Northrop, the defense contractor, the company that Phillip learned from those files at Martha's has been given 9 new security clearances. At least I think that's how it all works. 

 

Gotta say, I feel really bad for that lady. She's trying to be sober, trying to be a good sponsor, trying to keep her home and family going during a rotten time, and here's Elizabeth totally using her.

 

Geez, after this episode I'm hating Elizabeth.

Edited February 19, 2015 by RedHawk

[AimingforYoko]

What's the story with the AA sponsor Elizabeth is working?  I've forgotten why she's there, or don't we know yet?

She works for Northrop Aviation, builder of the Stealth bomber.

[David T. Cole]

Well, I screwed up the merge on this thread. Sorry, these comments won't appear on the story page. My bad.

[AlliMo]

I'm glad that they've found a storyline for Nina, because I'd hate to lose Annet Mahendru. She may have been working the Belgian girl in their last scene, but it's clear she wasn't entirely faking her loneliness and despair.

 

Elizabeth using a woman in recovery to gather intel somehow bothers me more than all the people that she's killed.

 

"Jim" being a lobbyist for the alcohol industry working against raising the drinking age was actually a damned good cover story. Of all the morally questionable things that Philip has done, seducing a girl only a few years older than his own daughter is one that he clearly can't stomach.

 

I'm interested in watching Stan's continuing downward spiral just to see where it might take him. His "apology" to his wife was pathetic. Like my grandma used to say, in the end, sorry is just a word, not a magic eraser.

 

Elizabeth has always been the true believer of the pair, and that's also often been her weakness. She'll play the part perfectly, but she's always resisted truly adapting, whereas Philip's willingness to embrace American culture has been to his advantage. Try as she might to bond with Paige, she still holds the old school Soviet values of filial duty. Her anger over Philip giving Paige the record was less about him not consulting her than it was her resentment that Philip's able to connect with Paige in ways that she simply can't. Telling Paige the truth isn't about letting Paige know who she really is, it's about letting her know who *Elizabeth* really is, something that I don't think Elizabeth can admit or is ready for.

[gwhh]

How is Paige following left wing Christiantiy?

Another boring episode :-(

 

I did like seeing Nina and hope she gets out of that prison, even if she double crosses or whatever that Belgian girl.

Phillip and this teen girl are just gross. I cringe at Martha, but can handle it bc she's an adult. 

Stan is boring, but I'm glad he's admitting he was a cheating asshole.

Paige, Paige, Paige. She's  exactly like Elizabeth, but her passions are just different. They're both stubborn, quiet, passionate, pretty good at manipulating and underestimated. I think Elizabeth could flip her she somehow manages to shatter her faith (I really hate saying that) and turn her toward socialism/equality through communism instead of left wing Christianity.

[Bama]

Soooo, that Love's Baby Soft commercial was fucking squicky.

 

A company couldn't get an ad like that anywhere near being aired today.

[Dusty]

I just came in here to talk about that commercial.  I totally forgot what the hell that scene was about because WHAT?!?!?!?  I'm not really sure how the commercials were in the 80's and 90's because I grew up on AFKN commercials (I think it's called AFN now) so that is all new to me! Holy crap.  I have never been so uncomfortable with a commercial in my life.

[Superpole2000]

I liked the music, especially the use of "Only You" at the end. I haven't really enjoyed most of show's plot this season, but I am a sucker for the Mad Men-esque time capsule effect of the show.

[TeresaDee]

Soooo, that Love's Baby Soft commercial was fucking squicky.

A company couldn't get an ad like that anywhere near being aired today.

Yes, I remember that commercial. Yes, I used Love's Baby Soft. ( Hangs head in shame).

A question: what was the song that that the babysitter was playing on the boom box? I usually recognize all the music on this show, but I' m stumped. God that storyline is disturbing.

Edited February 19, 2015 by TeresaDee

[shura]

Elizabeth is such a bitch. 'Who wears the pants in the family?' And how DARE Phillip buy his daughter a present without her majesty's express approval.

 

And she is not even hearing herself. When Philip points out that she has been going to church with Paige, Elizabeth says something to the effect of "I do it because I enjoy spending time with her, what's wrong with that?" Yet it's not okay for Philip to give his daughter a gift if he enjoys it.

 

Telling Paige the truth isn't about letting Paige know who she really is, it's about letting her know who *Elizabeth* really is, something that I don't think Elizabeth can admit or is ready for.

 

Exactly. Paige absolutely knows who she really is - a person with certain beliefs and values. Telling her "no, that's not who you really are" is simply telling her that she actually believes and values something else. That's absurd. And why would Paige's values change if her mother reveals to her that she is, in fact, a Russian spy? By the same logic, Kimmie is not who she thinks she is either, since she has no idea her father is in the CIA.

[attica]

I'm glad to see a character on the show rocking some perm-curls, which were still in style in the 'burbs in '82. (Do not ask me how I know.)

 

Oh, watching Matthew Rhys squick himself out by cuddling with Kimmy was cringey all the way through the teevee.

 

I hope the stunt guy falling ball-first into the toilet paper dispenser was well-padded. Oww.

 

Scott Winters (the est leader) is still ept at playing douchebags. He was the 'how'd'ya like them apples' guy in Good Will Hunting. And sibling to Dean Winters.

[SimoneS]

Ha, I knew that they would use Nina to get info from the Belgian girl. I don't really believe that they will let her go, but I understand her desperation to get out of prison and somehow reunite with Oleg.

 

Hang in there Elizabeth, Henry will end up being your spy.

 

Paige is 16, I don't buy that she knows who she is or that she has unchanging values. All Elizabeth has to do wait this out and it would not hurt to set up the pastor so he is revealed as a fraud. 

[sistermagpie]

A question: what was the song that that the babysitter was playing on the boom box? I usually recognize all the music on this show, but I' m stumped. God that storyline is disturbing.

 

 

You mean at the end? I think the three songs we heard were Adam Ant's Goody Two-Shoes, and Yaz's Don't Go and Only You.

 

Paige is 16, I don't buy that she knows who she is or that she has unchanging values. All Elizabeth has to do wait this out and it would not hurt to set up the pastor so he is revealed as a fraud.

 

 

She's 15, actually, with this birthday. I think it depends on what you mean by these things. Most of us are not who we were at 15--her values will probably change in her life. But right now she knows who she is and what she believes, and Elizabeth telling her that her parents believe other things won't necessarily change that. She might move on to something else from Christianity (that seems to be Philip's view, that she should be able to try different things at her age), but understandably Elizabeth doesn't think so since she's spent her life reaffirming her teenage values.

 

Setting up the pastor would help, but he might not be doing anything that can be set up. He doesn't seem like a fraud in that sense. Not as great as Paige thinks he is, perhaps (I certainly think so--I honestly don't think I would have liked him at all at her age any more than I do now), but not secretly having affairs with kids or anything. He's just a pretty smug guy who's probably never really been that challenged in his life.

 

Elizabeth is such a bitch. 'Who wears the pants in the family?' And how DARE Phillip buy his daughter a present without her majesty's express approval.

 

 

That line was pretty great, especially since it was reinforcing again her totally blinkered logic. Philip was saying "you don't know her" about Martha and he was right. Martha is a human being with her own desires. She can't be simply controlled by Clark like she's a puppet. He can't force her to be a different person than she is, at least without being outright abusive or something. But Elizabeth thinks you can just tell someone what they should want. Once again, Philip's being more realistic here. It's not the first time he's reminded Elizabeth of the unpredictability of their jobs, but Elizabeth is right now simply acting out of her own anger and needs. It's so galling to her to see Paige making goo-goo eyes at somebody like Pastor Tim.

 

I don't actually think Henry would necessarily be any easier to turn than Paige. Easier in some ways but harder in others.

[RedheadZombie]

I have to agree -- I didn't feel it was a great episode. The little things were there: I liked Phillip using his ill-gotten knowledge to buy a "cool" album for Paige. I liked "Jim" and Kimmie hanging out smoking a joint in front of what looked like the Supreme Court building. Yeah, security was that lax back then.

 

In the 1990s, I went to DC with family.  I actually climbed up to a window sill in the Capitol building (with a little boost from my mom), and ended up looking at the face of the people who had done the same thing on the other side of the building.  Security eventually showed up, but only to tell us it wasn't a good place to be after dark.  Imagine that.

 

Paige, Paige, Paige. She's  exactly like Elizabeth, but her passions are just different. They're both stubborn, quiet, passionate, pretty good at manipulating and underestimated. I think Elizabeth could flip her she somehow manages to shatter her faith (I really hate saying that) and turn her toward socialism/equality through communism instead of left wing Christianity.

 

I'm enjoying this storyline, because it's realistic internal conflict with Phillip/Elizabeth, rather than having one of them cheat again.  And I'm really loving how it's playing out.  Elizabeth - robbed of her agency when she was raped as a young girl in training - is NOT the one fighting for Paige's agency.  Elizabeth is that militant.  I love that it's Phillip who's fighting for Paige.  Phillip is putting his daughter first, and Elizabeth puts country first - as usual.

 

I also think it's interesting that Elizabeth keeps referring to telling Paige "who she is".  Not who her parents are, but who Paige is.  Elizabeth really seems to think that Paige is Russian, and that the fact that her parents are Russian spies will be a revelation that Paige embraces.  I think Elizabeth's biggest weakness as a spy is that she still doesn't understand what it means to be American, or how we think.

[soapfaninnc]

And she is not even hearing herself. When Philip points out that she has been going to church with Paige, Elizabeth says something to the effect of "I do it because I enjoy spending time with her, what's wrong with that?" Yet it's not okay for Philip to give his daughter a gift if he enjoys it.

 

 

Exactly. Paige absolutely knows who she really is - a person with certain beliefs and values. Telling her "no, that's not who you really are" is simply telling her that she actually believes and values something else. That's absurd. And why would Paige's values change if her mother reveals to her that she is, in fact, a Russian spy? By the same logic, Kimmie is not who she thinks she is either, since she has no idea her father is in the CIA.

 

I was raised by a woman who thought she could dictate 'who I was' which was as was also pointed out upthread - who she was. It was not who I was. I grew up resenting the hell out of not being allowed to be my own person for so long and rejecting anything my mother held dear. It took me a long time to discover who I am and what I believe and get past years of mental abuse (screaming at me repeatedly that I would think the way she did or else) to look at it objectively. This storyline hits home in a major way. As a result my kids are their own people - their accomplishments are theirs, their interests are theirs and they can grow up and believe the opposite of what I do and that's fine with me. They aren't an extension of me - they are individuals.

 

I know its a show but right now its showing a very real issue - parents who don't see their kids as people but as extensions of themselves. Elizabeth doesn't really see anyone as anything but extensions of herself and the 'cause'.  I wonder if we're supposed to see this as USSR vs US - the collective vs the individual.

 

Phillip is all but screaming at Elizabeth that Paige will turn on her with the same vehemence as Jared did his parents if she plows ahead with this. I don't think Paige will hurt her parents but she darn sure will run to Pastor Tim and his wife. 

[shura]

Paige is 16, I don't buy that she knows who she is or that she has unchanging values. 

 

There's that, yes. But if this is the principle we go by, then the whole concept of "who she really is" has no meaning because Paige really isn't anybody. OK, let's say Elizabeth instills into Paige her values. We'll still have a 15-year-old whose values are likely to change. Elizabeth would have to isolate Paige from the society and all its different ideas somehow to make sure Paige stays who she is after her "conversion".

 

What was the diner scene, "Do you want a ringing endorsement or do you want to know how the burgers are?", about? Was that supposed to be some revelation Stan got about his relationship with Sandra? I was just enjoying the scene so much that I didn't really think about its meaning. Seems like too nice a scene to have it for no plot-advancing reason.

Edited February 19, 2015 by shura

[Uncle Benzene]

Welp, Tara Ariano has gone and done it. Dammit! I will not be able to move on with my life now until Jimmy Fallon writes and performs a full version of Break On Through To The Snuggler Side! Thanks a LOT, Tara!

[SailorGirl]

Yes, I remember that commercial. Yes, I used Love's Baby Soft. ( Hangs head in shame).

A question: what was the song that that the babysitter was playing on the boom box? I usually recognize all the music on this show, but I' m stumped. God that storyline is disturbing.

Yaz -- Only You -- the best song on that album -- when he gave it to her I was hoping we would hear it and was disappointed when we heard "Don't Go" in the house -- I was so excited at the end when they played it!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9_HrktOwrk

 

Speaking as a 80s teen who grew up in the DC area (17 years old at my 1985 HS graduation) as icky as that last scene may have been for some of you, it was actually pretty spot on and I totally related. When we were going out, there were always older guys around -- both in and out of the bars -- they were just part of the scene. With that wig, Philip could have easily gotten away with telling her he was in his late 20s and she would have bought it -- no matter how unrealistic it may be for us to imagine that, an 18 year old girl who was raised in the upper middle class suburbs would have no reason to imagine he was lying.

And when I was 18 and going out in Georgetown (and trying to get into 21 bars in Maryland even though I could drink in DC at 18) I knew everything and could handle every situation and any guy that came along -- there was no telling me otherwise. Especially outside the college bars in Maryland, it was not uncommon for a guy to be hanging around outside to offer fake IDs to the underagers who got turned away -- although typically, they were doing it to make money. 

The whole dancing on the monument/official building steps with a boom box playing a cassette of the best tunes-- been there, done that!  And let's just say that one memorial in particular was the site of an event that all young women go through for the first time ever sooner or later . . .  

 

All in all, from the perspective of someone who was that girl in the 1980s, even though it is totally creepy what Philip is trying to do, they are portraying her role really spot on for an 80s late teenager. 

DC and Georgetown in the 80s -- there was nothing like it, and I loved every minute of it, even though it would take 3 hours to get ready because it took forever to crimp my long hair and decide which sweater dress and rhinestone jewelry to wear! :-D 

[topanga]

 

Philip and Kimmy is definitely gross.

 

Oh, watching Matthew Rhys squick himself out by cuddling with Kimmy was cringey all the way through the teevee.

 

ITA. So does Philip. Look at his face when he sat hugging her---after finally giving into her non-subtle "I'm so cold" declarations. I certainly hope it goes no farther than hugging. Kimmy is barely older than Paige. And again, Philip is painfully aware of this.

 

 

I also think it's interesting that Elizabeth keeps referring to telling Paige "who she is".  Not who her parents are, but who Paige is.  Elizabeth really seems to think that Paige is Russian, and that the fact that her parents are Russian spies will be a revelation that Paige embraces.  I think Elizabeth's biggest weakness as a spy is that she still doesn't understand what it means to be American, or how we think.

This. And when Paige learns about the impoverished living conditions of most Soviets, I doubt she'll be chomping at the bit to renounce her Yaz album and all things American. Elizabeth is very naïve in this sense, if she thinks Paige will automatically adopt Communist ideology.

Edited February 19, 2015 by topanga

[RedHawk]

When we were going out, there were always older guys around -- both in and out of the bars -- they were just part of the scene. With that wig, Philip could have easily gotten away with telling her he was in his late 20s and she would have bought it.

 

 

Oh yes, I thought he nailed "that guy" completely! One of his best assumed roles so far, in my opinion. 

 

I realized after reading these comments that I enjoyed the episode more than I first thought I did. The one thing that I really don't buy and have a problem with is Zinaida. Even though the actress, Svetlana Efremova, is Russian, she doesn't seem Russian to me or she just doesn't seem like a good actress. Is that because Zinaida IS playing the part of a defector, or ??? I don't care about her character at all and think it's a big dud in the middle of everything. I'm sure the stories will intertwine (soon I hope) and possibly be intriguing, but for now I just want to fast forward through her scenes.

Edited February 19, 2015 by RedHawk

[topanga]

I realized after reading these comments that I enjoyed the episode more than I first thought I did. The one thing that I really don't buy and have a problem with is Zinaida. Even though the actress, Svetlana Efremova, is Russian, she doesn't seem Russian to me or she just doesn't seem like a good actress. Is that because Zinaida IS playing the part of a defector, or ??? I don't care about her character at all and think it's a big dud in the middle of everything. I'm sure the stories will intertwine (soon I hope) and possibly be intriguing, but for now I just want to fast forward through her scenes.

I agree. Zinaida is hamming up the innocent and child-like persona, but that isn't consistent with a) how most Soviet women were raised and b) how an educated, savvy defector would act, even when exposed to America's abundance (excess?) for the first time.  I think this is one of the reasons Stan is so suspicious of her. He has known a Russian woman (in the biblical sense), and Nina taught Stan a lot about what life is really like in the Soviet Union.

 

I agree with the poster above who wishes Stan would have found away to keep searching the drop ceiling. I thought something was up there, too.

[scowl]

Paige is 16, I don't buy that she knows who she is or that she has unchanging values. All Elizabeth has to do wait this out and it would not hurt to set up the pastor so he is revealed as a fraud. 

 

She probably doesn't realize this. Communists strongly believed that "Those who control the youth control the future." I think the show focused too much on the Baptism -- dunking someone in water means nothing to atheists -- but they believe that the church controls the government (especially plausible in the 80's) and Paige is being indoctrinated into American society. 

 

Speaking as a 80s teen who grew up in the DC area (17 years old at my 1985 HS graduation) as icky as that last scene may have been for some of you, it was actually pretty spot on and I totally related. When we were going out, there were always older guys around -- both in and out of the bars -- they were just part of the scene. 

 

In smaller towns like mine we saw things that would horrify people now, like middle-aged men in their new sports cars picking up their 16 year old girl friends from school. These girls had no one that really cared about them so predators had no difficulties. They were considered pathetic but not law-breakers. I'm sure it was even easier for them in large cities. 

[PinkRibbons]

I was absolutely convinced that the Milky Way Stan bought for Zinaida was actually one she had left there with a message in the wrapper. And that when Stan gave it to her she was thanking her lucky stars that she could eat it and hide the wrapper.

 

Consequently, I was shocked that Stan didn't go through the deli's trash. (Or did he? I watched the episode pretty late last night.)

[Boundary]

I loved this episode. As much as I like the tension and excitement of them almost getting caught and having to fight or run their way of there, I adore this kind of character study. Actually, quite a few things made me like this episode: no Clarke/Martha scenes (I tend to skip those and rely on you guys on this thread), Nina is back in the game, Stan's quiet anguish (isn't Noah Emmerich doing a stellar job?) and manipulative Paige. But what I loved most, and typical for this show, is how they underplayed a pretty significant tug-of-war for Paige's affections, only for them to be confronted by the option they both least desire. Amazing stuff. Now they have to unite to undermine the Pastor but for different reasons. And the whole thing was so under the surface, this kind of story telling always impresses me. Paige now impresses me.

[Blakeston]

How is Paige following left wing Christiantiy?

 

Her church is left-wing. They encourage their members to protest at nuclear sites, and Pastor Tim described being involved in anti-Vietnam activism.

[BW Manilowe]

Ha, I knew that they would use Nina to get info from the Belgian girl. I don't really believe that they will let her go, but I understand her desperation to get out of prison and somehow reunite with Oleg.

Hang in there Elizabeth, Henry will end up being your spy.

Paige is 16, I don't buy that she knows who she is or that she has unchanging values. All Elizabeth has to do wait this out and it would not hurt to set up the pastor so he is revealed as a fraud.

I'm pretty sure that was only Paige's *15th* birthday in last night's ep, not 16th.

I'd swear, as recently as last week--if not early in this week's ep--Paige was referred to as (at the time) only being 14. Which, to me, may be part of the reason Philip is so dead set (right now, anyway) against The Centre wanting them to begin training her in the real "family business"; she's younger than her parents were when they began training. I'm pretty sure it's show canon that Elizabeth was 17 when she began KGB training; presumably Philip was also somewhere in that age range (although I don't remember them specifying his age, at the time, in the show).

[gwhh]

We need to know more about Zinaida background.

Is she from the governing "elite" of the ussr or just a average citizen made good?

I also think elizabeth real cranky because of the do it yourself dentist work at home! She wanted aspain that one AM at the sponsor house. I think it was for her tooth!

Edited February 19, 2015 by gwhh

[BW Manilowe]

Something else I wanted to comment on, but chose not to edit my previous comment to do it...

As I remember, when Stan went to see Sandra there was another guy there (the guy she's now living with?) & I'm pretty sure he said something like "It's not your week" when Stan asked to see Sandra. I got a vibe, from that, like she was supposed to be a kid they were sharing custody of & the other guy was a bit put off Stan came to visit at some time other than his legally-designated week. Did I misread that scene/did anyone else get the same vibe from it that I did?

[RedHawk]

when Stan went to see Sandra there was another guy there

 

 

Yes, that's Arthur who owns the house. He said, "It's not your night."

There was a bit of a laugh last week when Stan called the house after Oleg nearly shot him and got the answering machine. He left a rambling, stumbling message for Matthew (his son) and to Sandra, and then said something like, "Oh, and uh, hello Arthur." There probably isn't a custody agreement in place because (as Stan reminds us) they are only separated, not divorced, and Matthew is old enough to decide who he wants to live with. He was pretty pissed at Stan last time we saw him. I guess Matthew is a high school senior, and there's a certain night each week he's agreed to go to dinner with Stan or hang out or whatever.

Edited February 19, 2015 by RedHawk

[stillshimpy]

I also think that rather than the actor playing Zinaida being unskilled, what we're seeing is the character of Zinaida overacting her part as the wide-eyed "everything is so wonderful here! Pretty! Shiny! Sweet! Everything in America is good and everything in Soviet Russia is bad...which is why I totally defected and this is no way part of a larger scheme to spy for my country.  Yum.  Could I have another Milky Way, because that seems like a 'Yay, capitalism and junk food" thing to do, right before ordering dinner."  

 

What I think we're seeing is the character acting, versus the actor failing to bring to life a character.   It's one of the most difficult things to do, show just enough artifice to make it register "hey, my character is pretending" because it requires a really good actor to pull if off.  

 

but understandably Elizabeth doesn't think so since she's spent her life reaffirming her teenage values.

 

And she's also spent her life trying to win her mother's approval too, at least that's what the flashback and her recollection that her own mother didn't hesitate for a second to basically sell her to the Center for life.   

 

Since the other gifts talked about for Paige's birthday had been a ten-speed or a necklace, I have a hard time believing Elizabeth was really trying to interpret that album as Paige's one and only birthday gift.  I think Elizabeth is just very threatened by Phillip's connecting with Paige.  

 

This whole thing has the feel of watching all the pieces being put into place for a catastrophic car pile-up or something.  Elizabeth hears that Paige wants to make herself clean for Jesus (yikes, talk about earnestness overload) and her reaction to that is to absolutely determine that she is going through with the recruitment of Paige, with or without Phillip being on-board.  All that Paige is likely to learn in the "who she really is" ...is that she's the daughter of traitors who have lied to her her entire life.  

 

Once again they hit the peace-anti-war gong as being a big part of Paige's involvement with the church.  Her starry-eyed "You're a pacifist!" with such admiration made me wince a little, because Elizabeth isn't just blind, she's deaf if she doesn't get that Paige is so not going to be down with Mother Russia being her homeland on any level.  

 

I like Stan's story-line , but I didn't actually think his apology to Sandra sucked.  He was honest and communicative and the way Sandra reacted suggested it still hurt her to hear that he had loved someone else, so she's not indifferent to him, or over him entirely either.  

 

As for Nina, I can't help but think that the Belgian student is actually a plant. 

[Umbelina]

Something else I wanted to comment on, but chose not to edit my previous comment to do it...

As I remember, when Stan went to see Sandra there was another guy there (the guy she's now living with?) & I'm pretty sure he said something like "It's not your week" when Stan asked to see Sandra. I got a vibe, from that, like she was supposed to be a kid they were sharing custody of & the other guy was a bit put off Stan came to visit at some time other than his legally-designated week. Did I misread that scene/did anyone else get the same vibe from it that I did?

I'm pretty sure he was talking about visitation time with his son.

As for Nina, I can't help but think that the Belgian student is actually a plant.

 

I keep thinking the Belgian is a plant too, but then, Nina's already confessed, and I change my mind.

 

I like Stan's story-line , but I didn't actually think his apology to Sandra sucked.  He was honest and communicative and the way Sandra reacted suggested it still hurt her to hear that he had loved someone else, so she's not indifferent to him, or over him entirely either.

 

Yes, she got what she asked for.  Complete honesty.  Now we will see how she handles it.  First reaction, shock and hurt, but will her EST stuff kick in, and lead to possible reconciliation eventually, or at the very least, appreciation of Stan's attempt?  Or was he just getting it off his chest and on to her back, using EST as an excuse? 

I also think that rather than the actor playing Zinaida being unskilled, what we're seeing is the character of Zinaida overacting her part as the wide-eyed "everything is so wonderful here! Pretty! Shiny! Sweet! Everything in America is good and everything in Soviet Russia is bad...which is why I totally defected and this is no way part of a larger scheme to spy for my country.  Yum.  Could I have another Milky Way, because that seems like a 'Yay, capitalism and junk food" thing to do, right before ordering dinner."

 

Yeah, and props to Stan for seeing through that.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Umbelina

[shura]

I was absolutely convinced that the Milky Way Stan bought for Zinaida was actually one she had left there with a message in the wrapper. And that when Stan gave it to her she was thanking her lucky stars that she could eat it and hide the wrapper.

 

Consequently, I was shocked that Stan didn't go through the deli's trash. (Or did he? I watched the episode pretty late last night.)

 

That wouldn't be a good way to do a dead drop. There is no way to control what happens to the Milky Way there. It could be bought by any random person and all the valuable info on it would be lost.

 

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't even understand why Stan thought Zinaida would be leaving anything at that diner for someone to pick up later. Did she know they'd be going to that particular diner on that particular day somehow? How was she going to signal that she left something there to be picked up? I thought the FBI was babysitting her the whole time.

 

I keep thinking the Belgian is a plant too, but then, Nina's already confessed, and I change my mind.

 

Maybe her job is to see if Nina makes an earnest effort to do what she was tasked with.

Edited February 19, 2015 by shura

[stillshimpy]

By the way, I rarely long for the days of yore on any level, but between Yaz and that diner, I was actually missing the hell out of diners and albums too.  I love digital music and having 800 songs (or whatever insane number it is) that go with me wherever I go, but the sound of a turntable is still a fun thing to hear.  

 

 

 

I keep thinking the Belgian is a plant too, but then, Nina's already confessed, and I change my mind.

 

See, I think she's assessing Nina's skills as a possible operative or spy (whichever would be the correct word) for the KGB.  Nina worked for the Residence, and she failed at getting Stan to give up the goods on that program, but I think the KGB might be trying to find out how good she is or isn't for their own purposes.  It just doesn't make sense to me that they put a foreign student -- whose government is almost certainly going to be trying to get her back -- in with a "traitor to the Soviet people" .    I think they're assessing Nina to see if she could be trained to do something else and still be of use to them.  

 

The student tried almost everything Nina did in her opening bids.  Sharing food, trying to share her story, trying to assert her innocence.  She seemed to be making multiple attempts to connect and so her initial reluctance to accept Nina's overtures didn't actually make sense, if she's really the naive chick who wants to explain her regrettable mistake to the proper prison authorities (which is basically what she claimed when she first showed up).  The offer to Nina about her cell mate comes after Nina won't take that bait.  

 

 

 

How was she going to signal that she left something there to be picked up? I thought the FBI was babysitting her the whole time.

 

Stan has had to impress upon Zinaida (another thing that seems a little hinky) that Zinaida is being watched and she does the "The KGB would be trying to kill me?  Here? In the land of the free and the home of the fluffy nougat? No. Surely not."  as if she wouldn't think she was being watched.  

 

Then she did that weird thing with her purse, which could have been a signal to someone.  When you're heading to the ladies room, pretty much every woman alive automatically takes her purse.  She left it on top of the table and then went back to get it.  I assume Stan thought that might be a signal.  

Edited February 19, 2015 by stillshimpy