Rory Gilmore: Poor little rich girl?

[RachelKM]

On 9/12/2016 at 8:13 PM, CheeseBurgh said:

Richard, Christopher then Luke in that order.

I lean this way, but 

On 9/12/2016 at 9:21 PM, Taryn74 said:

Richard is the only one who really seemed a "father figure" to me.  (With the caveat of age 16 and up, of course.)

Christopher was her pal.  Luke was more like an older brother than a father figure IMO.

I can see this too. 

I think some of it was that Lorelai didn't voluntarily allow, much less encourage, anyone else to be a parental figure in her daughter's life.  I mean, obviously if Christopher had been determined, Lorelai couldn't really have prevented it.  But she encouraged him to remain outside their lives and he allowed it.

Luke seemed like a good friend of the family, but I never really saw him as a father figure. I don't recall any instances that seemed like Rory saw him or he saw himself in that role.  By the time he and Lorelai were dating, Rory was in college anyway.  But Lorelai never acted like any of the men in her life would be put in that position, even Chris.

Richard was the only person Rory really seemed to view that way (Chris a little bit, but that was more as a result of actually being her father than anything he did).  I think Rory and Richard developed their relationship partly because as her grandfather, he was more natural surrogate and partly Lorelai wasn't in a position to direct that anyway. Rory and Richard developed a significant relationship apart from Lorelai. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by RachelKM

[junienmomo]

I'm gonna go with Lorelai on the father figure question.

The parenting role needs to have a distinct ability/permission to tell the child no. No man had that with Rory.

Richard saw her maximum weekly, knew nothing about her daily or private life, and had no say in what she did.

Luke saw her every day, mostly was her trusted friend, did the occasional dad-like thing, but knew better than to cross the Lorelai line. 

Christopher was her pal, as mentioned already, had no say in what she did. 

Lorelai had the dad role sewed up.

[TimetravellingBW]

I'm going Richard, Luke, Christopher. Richard definitely had the most fatherly role by far, and I think Luke was a more reliable, present figure than Chris who was just the cool pal that breezed in and out. But there's no doubt Lorelai fulfilled basically every role by herself: Mother, father, best friend, sister.

[Melancholy]

I agree that Lorelai filled a parental role so powerful that she was the father figure as well as the mother figure. However to asses the others, Richard was the most father-figure. There are even small signs that Richard had more power over Rory than he even knew. I heavily weigh Rory telling Richard in Let the Games Begin that she would have taken an interview with Yale just because Richard asked her too and she was objecting the secrecy/surprise because it prevented her from doing it right. Or Rory's horror at the thought that Richard was conspiring with Emily to break up Lorelai and Luke, sort of indicating that Rory is more comfortable being disappointed by Emily than Richard. Richard is somewhat downgraded because he only became a major player in Rory's life at the age of 16- but Rory really took to him. 

Another huge point is that when Lorelai are fighting with Richard or Luke, Rory clearly feels this pain that she's caught between Lorelai who she values above all but also Luke and Richard who she also loves. Rory will put herself on the line with Lorelai trying to broker peace and end to the fight with both of them or she'll go visit them alone. Rory does this more with Richard than Luke. Like Rory clearly wasn't happy about it but she did keep her distance from Luke's in S7 until Lorelai and Luke reconciled. However other than maybe the period from It Should Have Been Lorelai to Teach Me Tonight, Rory is lock-step with Lorelai when Lorelai is fighting with Christopher with no interest in easing Chris back into a relationship with Lorelai or even particularly reaching out to Chris for their own relationship. Also, Rory reaches out to Richard /Emily, absolutely, and Luke, to a lesser extent, when she is fighting with Lorelai. However when Rory never reaches out to Christopher when she's in a fight with Lorelai- even though playing separated parents against each other is a classic maneuver or more flatteringly, human instinct for a child. It just goes to show how the Rory/Chris relationship is heavily facilitated by Lorelai largely because Lorelai has more confidence in the relationship because Chris gives every indication that he values Lorelai more than Rory. 

I think Rory is someone who really heavily weighs the blood-connection and she instinctively reaches out to her biological dad. That's why Richard could become such a big presence in Rory's life, despite Lorelai's sort-of-disapproval and his late entrance into her life and Richard's own flaws. Which just goes to say that I think Christopher really blew it and over the years, lost a lot of Rory's love and respect as she saw through him. S1-2 Rory respected and adored Christopher. However I feel like Rory just gets colder and colder to Chris to the point that even when they're playing happy family in S7, I feel like Rory is sort of only playing that role with Christopher out of duty, the fact that he's paying for Yale, and because Lorelai was with him. I really get little warmth in the Rory/Chris scenes in the later seasons. So ultimately, I rate Luke higher as a father figure. 

[ChlcGirl]

Richard was her father figure.  The other two were just some men she knew, even though Chris at least had the distinction of being her actual father.

[TimetravellingBW]

On 9/13/2016 at 11:01 PM, Melancholy said:

Another huge point is that when Lorelai are fighting with Richard or Luke, Rory clearly feels this pain that she's caught between Lorelai who she values above all but also Luke and Richard who she also loves. Rory will put herself on the line with Lorelai trying to broker peace and end to the fight with both of them or she'll go visit them alone. Rory does this more with Richard than Luke. Like Rory clearly wasn't happy about it but she did keep her distance from Luke's in S7 until Lorelai and Luke reconciled. However other than maybe the period from It Should Have Been Lorelai to Teach Me Tonight, Rory is lock-step with Lorelai when Lorelai is fighting with Christopher with no interest in easing Chris back into a relationship with Lorelai or even particularly reaching out to Chris for their own relationship. Also, Rory reaches out to Richard /Emily, absolutely, and Luke, to a lesser extent, when she is fighting with Lorelai. However when Rory never reaches out to Christopher when she's in a fight with Lorelai- even though playing separated parents against each other is a classic maneuver or more flatteringly, human instinct for a child. It just goes to show how the Rory/Chris relationship is heavily facilitated by Lorelai largely because Lorelai has more confidence in the relationship because Chris gives every indication that he values Lorelai more than Rory. 

I think Rory is someone who really heavily weighs the blood-connection and she instinctively reaches out to her biological dad. That's why Richard could become such a big presence in Rory's life, despite Lorelai's sort-of-disapproval and his late entrance into her life and Richard's own flaws. Which just goes to say that I think Christopher really blew it and over the years, lost a lot of Rory's love and respect as she saw through him. S1-2 Rory respected and adored Christopher. However I feel like Rory just gets colder and colder to Chris to the point that even when they're playing happy family in S7, I feel like Rory is sort of only playing that role with Christopher out of duty, the fact that he's paying for Yale, and because Lorelai was with him. I really get little warmth in the Rory/Chris scenes in the later seasons. So ultimately, I rate Luke higher as a father figure. 

^^^ Yes to all of this! Puts perfectly into words why I think Luke is more of a father-figure than Chris. There are plenty of times when Rory separates herself from Lorelai's conflicts with Richard or Luke. (It's significant that even in the middle of the huge Lorelai/Rory rift in s6, Luke still gives Rory his mothers necklace when she turns 21 and Rory's affectionately introduces him as my "step-father to be." Sadly, there weren't many Rory/Luke scenes, but the moments that were seen were meaningful). But with Chris, Rory seems to view him in connection to Lorelai and how Lorelai treats him at certain times. The major occasion she differs from Lorelai regarding Chris, is when Lorelai is getting closer to him in s5 and Rory wants him to stay away.

One of the most fascinating things for me is seeing Rory's view of Lorelai/Chris in s1 compared to s7. In s1 she'd love for them to get together while Lorelai tells it's unlikely; in s7 she's initially angry at them sleeping together and then going through the motions when they're married. Her respect for her dad definitely dwindles from giddy, excited Rory thrilled her Dad is coming to Stars Hollow for the first time. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[Smad]

On 14.9.2016 at 1:49 PM, ChlcGirl said:

Richard was her father figure.  The other two were just some men she knew, even though Chris at least had the distinction of being her actual father.

Luke wasn't just some man she knew. And if Christopher is allowed to be called her 'father' instead of what he actually is (sperm donor) then Luke was a father figure (though I don't see it that way) to her 10 times more than that. While Lorelai cared for Rory both emotionally and with a roof over her head, knowing Luke was definitely beneficial to both. I don't even want to know how much money Lorelai saved by having Luke doing repairs on her house for free (usually the father should be the one to help keep the roof from falling down). Or how much money she saved by eating at Luke's which I'm sure included many a free meal. That's not even getting into all the presents Luke gave her over the years. Chris provided nothing in terms of emotional or monetary support (until he became a gazillionaire) so if he is the bar for the definition of 'father' then Luke is even more of one.

[junienmomo]

I fail to see how Richard is more of a father figure than Luke. 

Richard saw her far less than once a week due to his travels. When they were together it was in the sanitized Friday Night Dinner theater, where most personal topics were off limits. He showed her his book collection, but we never saw her leaving with with borrowed or gifted books. He gave her a car and Yale tuition, getting only more FND in return. 

Luke was there every single day. Available to help, he made an effort to be there for her on her terms. Luke's Diner was her "third place," where she could be herself and know someone cared for her. 

Becoming a father is achieved in a moment. Being a parent takes countless moments, most unknown to the child or easily forgotten, but they still have a direct impact on a person's character. 

Richard was a classic grandfather. Detached but affectionate, only let into the grandkid's life to a certain extent.

Christopher took himself out of the running by his non-presence. Lorelai controlled the rest and enabled the father figure role to be filled by Luke, which he did willingly. 

[RachelKM]

I just don't think Luke acted fatherly toward Rory nor did she treat him as such.  A friend and maybe uncle, yes.  But honestly, when the show started, he seemed more like just a friend of the family.  The more I think about it, it seems as though those who answered no one has the better part of the argument.  Just because someone is in your life in some capacity, doesn't mean you look to him or her as a parental figure, even in the absence of a real parental figure. 

No doubt in my mind that Rory loved Luke and that he adored her right back.  But I just don't see him as filling that role for her.

[Viqutorious]

Rory also hugged her father without reservation. It was painful watching Rory trying to hug Luke. It was always so awkward.

[junienmomo]

6 hours ago, RachelKM said:

But honestly, when the show started, he seemed more like just a friend of the family.  

This is a  very good point. Luke was an addition to the main cast, and they had to invent his character as the show moved along. That's why we get in season one a guy who seems to be friendly and attracted to Lorelai, but doesn't behave like the guy in season five who has supposedly loved Lorelai for eight years. 

Sadly, a changing Luke became the norm for the writers. Do they want a father figure? There is Luke. Do they want an angry guy who beats on cars?  There's a different Luke.  Is it weird that the guy who is known as Mr. Monosyllable is also the guy who says I love you to Lorelai before she says it back?  You betcha. She says I love you to her daughter countless times, but even though he seems to have a position in her heart that is just below Rory's, she never says it to him until she is in her batshit crazy pod person ultimatum moment. 

[Smad]

13 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I just don't think Luke acted fatherly toward Rory nor did she treat him as such.

I don't think so either. My contention was just that Luke was relegated to just some guy that Rory knew by the previous poster while Christopher was called her 'father'.

[Taryn74]

14 hours ago, RachelKM said:

 

I just don't think Luke acted fatherly toward Rory nor did she treat him as such.

 

 

I agree.  To me, Luke was in more of a big brother role -- someone she admired and looked up to, and occasionally went to for advice, but not in a position of authority over her.  I maintain that Richard was the only one who ever seemed a "father figure" to Rory because he was the only one who ever had a type of parental authority over her.  (Speaking of the males, that is.)  Rory showed deference to Richard in a way she never did to any other man.

[Lady Calypso]

15 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I just don't think Luke acted fatherly toward Rory nor did she treat him as such.  A friend and maybe uncle, yes.  But honestly, when the show started, he seemed more like just a friend of the family.  The more I think about it, it seems as though those who answered no one has the better part of the argument.  Just because someone is in your life in some capacity, doesn't mean you look to him or her as a parental figure, even in the absence of a real parental figure. 

No doubt in my mind that Rory loved Luke and that he adored her right back.  But I just don't see him as filling that role for her.

I agree with this, absolutely. Now that you've said this aloud, this actually makes sense as to why the scene in Wedding Bell Blues didn't quite work for me as it should have, with Luke joining in on the parental rage. He never felt like a father to Rory. A friend, an uncle, for sure. He's been in her life for years and he clearly knows her a little bit better than Richard and Christopher. But he was never really a father to Rory. She never acted like he was a father figure, and he never treated her like his daughter. He was there for her, but not in the way that a father would be. So Luke's rage at Rory/Logan felt really flat and it didn't work. If anything, it took me out of what would have been a powerful scene. 

It's probably why a lot of Luke/Rory's scenes fell somewhat flat. They didn't get a lot of one on one scenes over seven seasons; if they had, the father-figure role would make a lot more sense. We heard a lot about Luke being there for Rory, but the issue is that we never really saw it. 

If I had to pinpoint a true father figure with Rory, I don't think she ever had one. She had Richard who fulfilled the grandfather role, for sure. He was never a father figure because he had been so absent from Rory's life for sixteen years, much like Christopher. Even when they got close, it wasn't in a fatherly love type of way. Maybe, like Emily, Richard had subconsciously used Rory as a Lorelai replacement, but that's the closest I could see the Richard/Rory relationship getting to having him in a father-figure type role. And, of course Christopher was barely around for Rory and his attempts at parenting always fell flat. He's her biological father, but not much stems from that, as he didn't fulfill the emotional or mental requirements. He put himself first always. 

[hippielamb]

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

If I had to pinpoint a true father figure with Rory, I don't think she ever had one.

I don't either, and that's ok. Many kids don't have a traditional mother or father figure and I like that it is represented on this show. 

I don't think you need to be in someone's life since birth to be a surrogate type parent. Richard was the man she was closest to, some of my favourite GG moments are between the two of them. While Richard was clearly her grandfather he was the strongest male role model in her life.

I doubt Rory herself would say Chris or Luke were father figures. Chris is her friend, he treats her like a kid sister. Luke is a family friend who cooked for her and she has known for several years. Rory's relationship with Richard had more depth and we see that she looks to him for guidance, and she likes sharing things with him.

[ChlcGirl]

22 hours ago, Smad said:

I don't think so either. My contention was just that Luke was relegated to just some guy that Rory knew by the previous poster while Christopher was called her 'father'.

Since I am that previous poster I will expand.  Whether you think he earned the title or not, Christopher was Rory's father.  If she had to fill out paperwork, he was the man listed.  His was the name on the birth certificate.  He is legally, HER FATHER.

Luke was the guy her mother dated.  The guy she married?  Was Rory's father.   When Rory went to college, she didn't keep in touch with Luke except through her mother.  Who was she seen texting to?  Oh yes, Christopher.  Her father.  Not Luke.  The show tried to change things up here and there and create something between Rory and Luke on occasion but for the most part? All their interactions were connected through Lorelei.  Hell, Luke was more of a father figure to Lane and Zack.

[elang4]

13 minutes ago, ChlcGirl said:

Since I am that previous poster I will expand.  Whether you think he earned the title or not, Christopher was Rory's father.  If she had to fill out paperwork, he was the man listed.  His was the name on the birth certificate.  He is legally, HER FATHER.

Luke was the guy her mother dated.  The guy she married?  Was Rory's father.   When Rory went to college, she didn't keep in touch with Luke except through her mother.  Who was she seen texting to?  Oh yes, Christopher.  Her father.  Not Luke.  The show tried to change things up here and there and create something between Rory and Luke on occasion but for the most part? All their interactions were connected through Lorelei.  Hell, Luke was more of a father figure to Lane and Zack.

Have to say, I did love Luke's relationship with Lane and Zack. It was really sweet. :)

To add to the conversation, I get why people are saying Luke wasn't Rory's father figure. I agree she probably doesn't think of him like that but it is clear that she looks up to him a lot and cares about him a lot. They definitely mean something to each other. I still go back to the vow renewal when Rory was more worried about Luke's reaction rather than her dad's. She didn't give Chris a second thought.

[tennisgurl]

To me, Luke is not exactly Rory's main father figure (to me, her biggest father figure is/was Richard), and maybe not even a real father figure at all, but he is an important person in her life, more like a cool uncle, and he is one of the few adults in her life who she has never really been estranged with. She has stopped talking with Lor, Christ, the Gilmores, but not Luke. Even when she was not talking to her mom, she still wanted Luke at her birthday, and clearly had no issue with him. 

[patchwork]

I think the only father figure Rory had was her mother.

Richard and Chris weren't around much, Chris was unreliable and for the most part absent, she didn't really have a relationship with Richard until she was 16 and while he comes close and is the most important non romantic man in her life he's not involved enough in her day to day life for me to class him as a father figure. Richard gets the highlights of what's going on with Rory but she only really turned to him emotionally that one time when Lorelei kicked her out for quitting Yale. 

Luke is as close to them as the plot demanded for that episode but they didn't interact any where near enough for me to say he's Rory's father figure. Two? Three? One on One scenes throughout the series. They cared about on another but he was more a family friend than anything else to Rory. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by patchwork

[Guest]

On September 22, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Smad said:

I don't think so either. My contention was just that Luke was relegated to just some guy that Rory knew by the previous poster while Christopher was called her 'father'.

But Christopher was her father. Whether or not he acted as a father-figure, he was biologically and legally her father. In Season 1, we know they often spent holidays together. He was in no way just a sperm donor. A good father? No. But that doesn't erase him from that spot.

To the question, I'd say Richard was most of a father figure out of the three. I can't recall a time she was in trouble that she turned to Chris or Luke for help, but whether it was a fight with Lorelai in Season 1 or a fight with Lorelai in Season 5, we saw her seeking comfort and aid from the Gilmores.

[Viqutorious]

In the debutante episode it always stood out to me that Rory mentioned her Grandpa, Taylor and the cable guy as possible alternates if her Dad wouldn't escort her. If the writers were trying to advance Luke as her father figure he certainly would have been mentioned.

[elang4]

3 minutes ago, CheeseBurgh said:

In the debutante episode it always stood out to me that Rory mentioned her Grandpa, Taylor and the cable guy as possible alternates if her Dad wouldn't escort her. If the writers were trying to advance Luke as her father figure he certainly would have been mentioned.

To be fair, she probably knew it would definitely not be Luke's scene and that he would feel so uncomfortable in that setting.

[Viqutorious]

A good friend or father figure would not hesitate to help.

Edited to add, they both said Christopher and Dean would hate it too but they asked them. 

I just thought it was curious.

Edited September 26, 2016 by CheeseBurgh

[tennisgurl]

I re-watched Bridesmaids revisited the other day, and I was struck by two thing.

1. Logan handled Rory's anger over him hooking up with all of Honors friends horribly, and acted like more of an asshole about it than I even remember. I mean, I dont think he actually cheated on Rory, technically, but he should have told her about what went on during their "break", and he immediately tried to blame Honors friends for everything, when it seemed to me they weren't such jerks, just rather self centered, but not malicious (maybe its uncool to talk about hooking up with someones boyfriend, but its clear that to them, hooking up with people within their circle is no big deal, so it would probably shock them to realize how mad Rory would be). 

2. Rory clearly should have hooked up with Pompous Princeton Guy, her rival on the college journalism panel who showed up in two scenes. He was cute, and it would have been fun to see Rory with a really ambitious guy who was also a go getter type. 

[steff13]

On 9/27/2016 at 10:02 AM, tennisgurl said:

Rory clearly should have hooked up with Pompous Princeton Guy, her rival on the college journalism panel who showed up in two scenes. He was cute, and it would have been fun to see Rory with a really ambitious guy who was also a go getter type. 

And also originated the role of Aaron Burr in Hamilton.  Who also happened to be a Princeton guy.  ?

I'm re (re re re, etc.) watching and I recently saw the episode where Rory discovers Lorelai had sex with Christopher after her breakup with Luke.  Rory was such a brat about it that.  It's unfortunate she found out, but she's actually upset as though it's any of her business.  Then Lorelai apologized for not telling her!  It doesn't matter that Christopher is Rory's father, she has no right to know the details of get mother's sex life.  

[elang4]

2 hours ago, steff13 said:

And also originated the role of Aaron Burr in Hamilton.  Who also happened to be a Princeton guy.  ?

I'm re (re re re, etc.) watching and I recently saw the episode where Rory discovers Lorelai had sex with Christopher after her breakup with Luke.  Rory was such a brat about it that.  It's unfortunate she found out, but she's actually upset as though it's any of her business.  Then Lorelai apologized for not telling her!  It doesn't matter that Christopher is Rory's father, she has no right to know the details of get mother's sex life.  

To be fair, I think she was more upset that she had sex with Chris immediately after everything happened with Luke. She liked Luke too. And also she finally had a good thing going with her dad. She was worried this would ruin it.

[Guest]

I never realized pompous Princeton guy was LOJ!

[navelgazer]

I actively started to despise Rory after the oh-poor-me-I-had-to-drop-a-class meltdown.  Oh, boo freaking hoo.  Get over yourself, you whiny little beeyatch.  It didn't help that AB's acting was atrocious in her crying scenes, that one and the one where she hugs Richard and says she messed everything up.  She just didn't have the talent for it.  Her acting in the first sex scene with JP wasn't much better and that was supposed to be exciting, or something. 

As far as the father figure, I'm inclined for Lorelai and the rest were just men in her life.  I agree she was closer to Christopher than to Luke, but she knew she could depend on Luke.  The coffee cake birthday and the signs in the window for the rummage sale and Lorelai being "not very good with no" get me in the feels whenever I see them.  

As far as Rory's journalism career or lack thereof in the revival, totally agree with the assessment of Rory as not being tough enough to be a foreign correspondent.  I was mostly confused and irritated by Rory in the revival because she hadn't moved forward.  Credentials on the campaign bus of the winning presidential candidate should have led to a job in the White House Press Corps after the campaign was over.  Having Rory flailing around with an article here and an article there made no sense to me at all.  (I'm imagining Rory as Betsy Woodruff, who is on the national political news shows all the time.  She writes for the Daily Beast and is 28-years-old.)

I still want to know what happened to the trust fund(s) she was supposed to receive at 25.  Rory liked living the good life, but she wasn't a spendthrift.  I can't see her going through that much money in less than five years. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by navelgazer

[Viqutorious]

Betsy Woodruff and Rory is an excellent comparison!

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, navelgazer said:

As far as Rory's journalism career or lack thereof in the revival, totally agree with the assessment of Rory as not being tough enough to be a foreign correspondent.  I was mostly confused and irritated by Rory in the revival because she hadn't moved forward.  Credentials on the campaign bus of the winning presidential candidate should have led to a job in the White House Press Corps after the campaign was over.  Having Rory flailing around with an article here and an article there made no sense to me at all.  (I'm imagining Rory as Besty Woodruff, who is on the national political news shows all the time.  She writes for the Daily Beast and is 28-years-old.)

I know I say this a lot. But I really wish they had explored Rory's choice in career especially in college. She never came off as a brilliant foreign correspondent. Someone who would be great at reviewing movies and/or books. Not someone who could handle being in a war zone. I don't see how well she would have done well on the campaign bus but it would have been nice to see her try. I see Rory most likely writing down whatever the Candidate said I can't see her speaking up or even directly asking questions to Obama. College would have been the perfect time for her to explore the career.   Mitchum telling her she didn't have it was the perfect moment for her to decide whether or not she really wanted to be a journalist and the one she specifically picked out years ago.  She could have decided she was going to try really hard to be better at it or maybe as she's trying realize she really doesn't have it to be a foreigner correspondent. Maybe have her change her major a couple times as she decides what career she really wants. Maybe she does drop out because she doesn't know what to do this has been her dream all her life. Maybe she explores different jobs and finds one she really wants. They really could have explored it. Lots of people have an idea or dream job as a kid but once they hit college they either change their minds or realize the career doesn't fit them again. It really could have been fun and interesting to see Rory trying out different jobs and majors.       

[slf]

Two genuinely endearing moments from Rory are 1) when she and Lorelai are at Sherri's baby shower and they make her sing karaoke, and 2) when she goes to her grandparents' house to ask them to attend Lorelai's graduation and she says, "I had a school thing once, and I wasn't sure if Mom would want to go so I didn't invite her. It was my kindergarten "Salute to Vegetables" pageant and I was broccoli and I did a tap dance with a guy that was playing beets and the entire number I was just thinking, "Mom's not here" and it was my fault that she wasn't there and, well, it was kind of a life lesson for me." The first because Rory's face as the women squeal at her is hilarious, the second because that is an adorable story. 

[mamadrama]

On 2/23/2018 at 6:04 AM, andromeda331 said:

I know I say this a lot. But I really wish they had explored Rory's choice in career especially in college. She never came off as a brilliant foreign correspondent. Someone who would be great at reviewing movies and/or books. Not someone who could handle being in a war zone. I don't see how well she would have done well on the campaign bus but it would have been nice to see her try. I see Rory most likely writing down whatever the Candidate said I can't see her speaking up or even directly asking questions to Obama. College would have been the perfect time for her to explore the career.   Mitchum telling her she didn't have it was the perfect moment for her to decide whether or not she really wanted to be a journalist and the one she specifically picked out years ago.  She could have decided she was going to try really hard to be better at it or maybe as she's trying realize she really doesn't have it to be a foreigner correspondent. Maybe have her change her major a couple times as she decides what career she really wants. Maybe she does drop out because she doesn't know what to do this has been her dream all her life. Maybe she explores different jobs and finds one she really wants. They really could have explored it. Lots of people have an idea or dream job as a kid but once they hit college they either change their minds or realize the career doesn't fit them again. It really could have been fun and interesting to see Rory trying out different jobs and majors.       

I agree. To me, Rory was not a great communicator. Foreign correspondents need to be able to get right in the middle of the action, ask the hard questions, and actually TALK to people. Rory always came across as someone who was more likely to stand back against the wall and observe. 

[steff13]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:05 AM, elang4 said:

To be fair, I think she was more upset that she had sex with Chris immediately after everything happened with Luke. She liked Luke too. And also she finally had a good thing going with her dad. She was worried this would ruin it.

Yeah, no, I can't sign on to that.  It's none of her business, and it shouldn't have had any affect on Rory's relationship with Christopher.  It really bugs me.

[elang4]

8 minutes ago, steff13 said:

Yeah, no, I can't sign on to that.  It's none of her business, and it shouldn't have had any affect on Rory's relationship with Christopher.  It really bugs me.

See things like Rory telling Emily about the termites when Lorelai specifically asked her not to bugged me. This, well I feel Rory had a right to be upset. Remember all the times before when Lorelai’s slept with Christopher and it always ended in tears. Lorelai never thought about how it would affect Rory and then Christopher leaves and she expects Rory to be ok with by saying they would be ok just the two of them. This and also when Rory got upset about them getting married without telling her. I think she had the right to be upset. Other times when she deliberately went against Lorelai’s wishes and then didn’t realise she was the one in the wrong bugged me. But this? No, this time I got why she was upset.

[steff13]

18 hours ago, elang4 said:

See things like Rory telling Emily about the termites when Lorelai specifically asked her not to bugged me. This, well I feel Rory had a right to be upset. Remember all the times before when Lorelai’s slept with Christopher and it always ended in tears. Lorelai never thought about how it would affect Rory and then Christopher leaves and she expects Rory to be ok with by saying they would be ok just the two of them. This and also when Rory got upset about them getting married without telling her. I think she had the right to be upset. Other times when she deliberately went against Lorelai’s wishes and then didn’t realise she was the one in the wrong bugged me. But this? No, this time I got why she was upset.

I feel the opposite way.  :)  I thought Lorelai was just being stubborn not going to her mom about the termite problem.  I get she didn't want to go to her parents, but it was their house, and they literally had no other option, other than borrowing from Luke, which she didn't want to do either.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited February 27, 2018 by steff13

[elang4]

6 minutes ago, steff13 said:

I feel the opposite way.  :)  I thought Lorelai was just being stubborn not going to her mom about the termite problem.  I get she didn't want to go to her parents, but it was there house, and they literally had no other option, other than borrowing from Luke, which she didn't want to do either.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Happy to agree to disagree. :) However I do agree with you that Lorelai was stubborn about the termite problem. It was more to do with the fact that she asked Rory to not say anything and she deliberately went against that, knowing her mom’s relationship with her grandparents. I’m not saying that Lorelai should have refused to ask for their help but Rory should have known to let her do that herself, not force her to do it. To Lorelai’s credit, she did raise Rory herself and she always came up with a solution for their money problems so I feel like she would have done the right thing in the end.

Edited February 26, 2018 by elang4

[clack]

That "foreign correspondent" thing always seemed an ambition for Rory that AS-P took about 5 seconds coming up with. "What would be a good, feminist role model for a young girl to have? How about Christiane Amanpour?" It just never fit, and should have been dropped early on.

Someone like Joan Didion, say, would have been a much more apropos choice for role model. Feminist, introspective, bookish, yet still a journalist (among other things) -- and the show could still have had Rory writing for the school newspaper. (Amanpour, btw, didn't write for the newspaper -- she worked for the school radio station, and interned at the local TV station, which Rory, if she really wanted to be a TV foreign correspondent, should have been doing).

Edited February 27, 2018 by clack

[nclpllm]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:16 AM, deaja said:

I never realized pompous Princeton guy was LOJ!

Mr. Burr, sir! : D

 

On 2/25/2018 at 10:15 AM, mamadrama said:

To me, Rory was not a great communicator. Foreign correspondents need to be able to get right in the middle of the action, ask the hard questions, and actually TALK to people. Rory always came across as someone who was more likely to stand back against the wall and observe. 

And not only talk, but, importantly, LISTEN. She fell asleep while that guy in the revival told her why he was waiting in line; she couldn't focus on the guy she was interviewing in Yale for her, admittedly boring story idea- pirated music; she talked to Marty about Chris, then fell asleep when it was HIS turn to talk about his dad. If there's anything going on in her life, she can't focus on what anyone else is saying to her. 

I even question how observant she is. From the get-go, we were told she wants to be a foreign correspondent, and in the very first episode, Dean said there was a huge fight happening and she was completely obvious with her nose in a book. 

Further up someone asked if she had any interest in international affairs. No, she didn't. Paris had to drag her to that international club when they were freshmen at Yale. Rory complained about going and said her grades would be enough. She wanted to see what was really going on and be a part of something big. She didn't even want to find out about what was happening in her immediate surroundings. 

I agree with what someone else said, that she could write what was in front of her, but had no talent or drive to go find interesting stories.  

 

On 2/27/2018 at 8:44 AM, clack said:

(Amanpour, btw, didn't write for the newspaper -- she worked for the school radio station, and interned at the local TV station, which Rory, if she really wanted to be a TV foreign correspondent, should have been doing).

She even started in Providence. Rory didn't want to settle for the Providence-Journal, even though she'd be a "big fish" in a small pond. I suppose just because she went to Yale. It amuses me that the Providence-Journal was good enough for A.G. Sulzberger to start out. 

Rory seemed more interested in the prestige of the institutions she aspired to be a member than digging for the truth. They always praised how wonderful she wrote, but writing can be edited if it isn't up to par. It's the reporting that matters and she wasn't concerned with that. 

I am right there with everyone who is frustrated that her time away from Yale and the revival didn't face the facts: Rory did not have what it took to write anything important. The show could never admit it or let her explore other options.

Normally, I would agree with any suspicion that ASP didn't put enough thought and research into Rory's career aspirations. It was my general stance on this issue. But now that we know how things went down, were always meant to go down, maybe it never mattered that AB (and the writing and directing) didn't pull it off convincingly. Perhaps the purpose of this far-flung goal was to make the "final four words" all the more crushing. And they would have been absolutely crushing if she'd said it while still in her cap and gown. Rory wanted the world, people wanted the world for her. The final 4 kill the dream. It might not have been as dramatic (and utterly depressing) if she'd already decided she'd be happier with a more low-key realistic-for-her-personality career near Stars Hollow. 

I'm coming round to thinking foreign correspondent aspirations was a ruse the whole time. It never mattered what Rory wanted to be, it was more important to the writers who she was going to be: Lorelai. Might as well make that (apparently inescapable) fate as devastating as possible. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by nclpllm

[steff13]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:15 AM, mamadrama said:

I agree. To me, Rory was not a great communicator. Foreign correspondents need to be able to get right in the middle of the action, ask the hard questions, and actually TALK to people. Rory always came across as someone who was more likely to stand back against the wall and observe. 

She wouldn't even talk to Darren Springstein on the phone when she was scheduling that lunch about her Harvard application. 

[stan4]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:28 PM, nclpllm said:

 Perhaps the purpose of this far-flung goal was to make the "final four words" all the more crushing. And they would have been absolutely crushing if she'd said it while still in her cap and gown. Rory wanted the world, people wanted the world for her. The final 4 kill the dream. It might not have been as dramatic (and utterly depressing) if she'd already decided she'd be happier with a more low-key realistic-for-her-personality career near Stars Hollow. 

I'm coming round to thinking foreign correspondent aspirations was a ruse the whole time. It never mattered what Rory wanted to be, it was more important to the writers who she was going to be: Lorelai. Might as well make that (apparently inescapable) fate as devastating as possible. 

Speaking of good writing, your post was very nicely done.  I only kept this part to quote because I disagree that it would have killed her dream to have the world.  It reminds me immediately of a friend of mine I had in residency (Bob) who strapped his baby boy on his back and went to Nepal or surfed in Australia or just took that kid wherever the wind blew him.  

 

My friend had no resources besides the brain in his head and a whole lot of gumption (I met him when he was older, his son was an older teenager, and Bob had become a physician).  Rory has the might of the Gilmore dollars behind her.  A baby wasn't going to slow her roll if she wanted to do anything.

Oh, and Chris was never a father figure.  Rory had zero respect for the guy (can't blame her).

[andromeda331]

Rory's dream of being a foreign correspondence growing up was fine and it kind of made sense. She never really been outside of Stars Hollow so it makes sense she'd dream of traveling all over the world or wanting to see places she's only read about in books. But none of it ever added up and its really amazing that Rory nor anyone around her barring Mitchum ever realized she wouldn't be good at it nor did it line up with her personality.  Usually by college or in college most people realize their childhood dream doesn't fit or isn't going to work. Rory has zero drive. She doesn't fight for stories, she doesn't go out and find a story herself, or do any leg work. Honestly, it never occurs to her to do so.  Like you would think if she was interested in exploring the world or being a foreign correspondence that she would be in clubs. French Club, Spanish Club, whatever she doesn't do that. Stars Hollow High's didn't really have anything like that (which she mentions in the second episode) but once she gets to Chilton she doesn't explore any of the clubs or any thing else except the newspaper. This pattern repeats when she gets to Yale. Why? She's finally in a top notch high school and college filled with different clubs, different people and events and Rory never takes advantage of it. Its like when she tells Lorelai in season three about wanting to beat Paris to speak at CSPAN that she wasn't even going to sign up for it until Paris said something. Lorelai points out that someone who wants to be foreign correspondence really should be wanting to do something like that and get practice at public speaking. Rory blows her off but Lorelai is correct. Rory never actually does anything that she should be doing or really want to be doing if that was her dream job. Paris dragging Rory to the International club. Yes, Rory should be already going to that club. She instead complains and mentions her grades. How does she not know she needs to do more the make good grades by that point? She had that freak out in season two when she realized she was behind in her extracurricular activities but then...does nothing. She never even considered running for student council until Paris pointed out that Harvard loved those things. Despite being told more then once and by different people she needs to do more. Rory never actually does. Why not? If this is her dream job why isn't she doing more? She studies, she writes and does research. Yet somehow she thinks she'll be the one out covering warzones. She thinks she's going to interview political candidates? Rory never actually does the hard work that would make her foreign correspondence or even just a regular journalist. Its really surprising when you think of how hard her mother, grandmother and grandfather do work. Lorelai worked her way up at the inn ending up running the place before buying her own B&B, Richard worked extremely hard in his job, and Emily was very busy with the DAR and numerous other things. But Rory who grew up seeing her mother working hard and later her grandparents never rubs off on her. 

[stan4]

I think it's partly her innate characteristics and partly that she was sold a bad bag of goods her entire childhood.

 

She keeps being sold as special, but I know TONS of people who are smarter, harder working, more well-read, etc.  I never understood why we were supposed to think she was all that and a bag of chips.

 

She would NEVER cracked the top 10 in my public high school, and half the kids at my kids' private would run circles around her (plus they are/were athletes, musicians, volunteers, etc).

 

ASP is so out of touch with how accomplished the real top people are.

 

Rory is really not that special, and she is majorly  lacking in well-roundedness.

[Frelling Tralk]

I think it’s realistic that Rory was flattered so much throughout her childhood, she was a quiet and studious worker who generally had her nose in a book and got excellent grades, those are the kind of kids that teachers (well adults in generally really) absolutely love. There’s often this assumption that it’s the quiet and studious ones who will do something to wow everyone later on in life ‘once they’ve come out of their shell’, but in fact it’s actually much harder for shy introverts to climb the ladder and impress people as adults frankly, just being good at exams and academics is not enough to equal success in the real world.  

At Chilton Paris often complained that Rory was seen as more likeable than Paris’s rather abrasive personally, adults generally found Paris a bit scary and hard to take. But still ultimately it was Paris who had more drive and determination later on in life and didn’t care what anyone else thought, while Rory was completely crushed when Mitchum told her that she didn’t have it, and in the revival she had no idea how to sell herself in an interview. Rory had the kind of personality that generally does peak in high school/college 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, stan4 said:

 

ASP is so out of touch with how accomplished the real top people are.

 

And she made her characters out of touch on this as well. Rory didn’t know she would need extra curriculars to get into Harvard?

[slf]

It's not completely equal but all the same I find it rich that Rory was so offended Dean was working his butt off to buy a townhome for Lindsay but she pretty much had zero problem with him building a car for her. Dean wasn't making big bucks bagging groceries at Taylor's shop so much of what he made went into that car. That's time he's not spending studying. The time spent actually working on the car is time not spent studying. Yet we heard little precious little resistance to the car-building from Rory. Then three years later she's stomping through the market bitching about how selfish Lindsay is? (Lindsay was kind of selfish but that's different conversation.) Yes, Lindsay asked for the townhome and Rory didn't ask for the car but it's not like Rory didn't have a say. She could have - and should have, that gift was way inappropriate - refused it.

Rory always expected to be spoiled in her various relationships; to be fawned over, to get her way, to be the best treated*. When she broke up with Dean the first time she sat outside his window asking him not to hate her, even though she basically cheated on him and treated him like crap during the last few months of their relationship. With Jess, she kissed him then ignored him for months. When she came back to town, still involved with Dean, she had the audacity to be angry with Jess that he was with someone else. She cheated on her last boyfriend, Paul (???).

[stan4]

Why didn't Lindsay have a job, though?

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, stan4 said:

Why didn't Lindsay have a job, though?

Because ASP needed a reason to justify the whole cheating story line.  If she'd been anything but a ditzy blonde selfish teen wife, the whole thing would have been highly distasteful.  This way some would find the Rory/Dean reconnecting (dirty!) justified.

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, stan4 said:

Why didn't Lindsay have a job, though?

From a character standpoint, I believe it was just unrealistic expectations.  Dean's mom was a SAHM and it seems that Lindsay's mom was too (since she was helping Lindsay cook every day for Dean and the guys working construction at the Dragonfly), and we know from TDDR that Dean liked the "traditional stay-at-home wife/mom" thing, so that's the kind of wife Lindsay assumed she would be.  The real problem came in when Lindsay unrealistically wanted the life of a couple who were much older, had been married for much longer, and had a lot more disposable income than she and Dean.  A couple of 19 year olds can't have all the things she wanted to have unless they come from money.

In the real world, of course, most women start out working even if they do become a SAHM after they have kids, but you can't expect too much realism out of ASP.

[chessiegal]

I never understood Lindsay not having a job. My Mom got married in 1946, and worked full time until she had me in 1950. My 2 step-daughters worked full time after getting married until they had babies. I thought Dean's Mom had a job? Stupid storyline.

[Guest]

Dean’s Mom had a job. I don’t think Lindsay was selfish for wanting a town house unless we know that Dean wanted her working and she was refusing. The bigger issue with that was Rory thought she had a right to an opinion on Lindsey and Dean’s decisions made as a couple.