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Rory Gilmore: Poor little rich girl?


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4 hours ago, marineg said:

But she wasn't actually scared or intimidated in my opinion. She was upset that Jess wasn't there for her, and seeing that the people around her didn't exactly like Jess. That was Rory being pensive on her relationship, not being afraid of Lane.

And yes, I would like to know when she was afraid of Jess, because apart from the moment at the party, I don't recall ever seeing her afraid of Jess.

She really wasn't. Unlike her being mad at Lorelai for not liking Jess. Rory didn't really seem that hurt that Lane didn't like him. She even seemed to understand why Lane didn't like him because she told her it was okay. Lane does feel bad about it but is honest that she doesn't like him. She promises to try harder. She suggests he comes to the reception but both decline because its not Jess's thing.  

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3 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Can I just take a moment to say how freaking awesome I think it is that we can still have such deep, meaningful conversations about a show that first aired almost 20 years ago?! I love this board so much.

Carry on.

That is really cool. 20 years later and I still can't stop talking about the show. I'm so glad others are still happy to talk about the show too.

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I don't think Rory was actually supposed to be intimidate/afraid of Lane, Jess, or even Dean but either Alexis decided on her own to play her that way in certain scenes or that's how she was directed. I think the most likely answer is that she was choosing/directed to play Rory as nervous and it came across as more serious than that. Nervous would make sense with Lane since her best friend didn't like her boyfriend, with Jess because they had problems (big and small) from the moment they officially got together, and with Dean because of how Jared played him. Also I'm not disputing that the vast majority of the time Alexis played Rory as intimidated and/or scared was opposite Jared. I'm just saying it wasn't only opposite Jared.

Going through season 3 now to get some examples of Alexis' playing Rory as intimidated/scared opposite Jess. Quick note: I'm fully aware that they're subject to interpretation so I won't be bothered if everyone agrees that this is just me.

My first example is at the winter carnival thing. They're at the bottle toss thingy, Dean and Clara have left for ice bowling (?), and Jess has confronted Rory about his suspicions that she was possibly going to the carnival with them since he was originally not going. Not an unfair question since they did show up right when Jess and Rory were about to separate so she could go alone. Nothing in this scene from Milo suggests that Jess was excessively angry like with Jared when he plays Dean as upset (Milo comes across as mildly perturbed to be honest). It's all on how Alexis is playing Rory. Quick aside, Alexis is using that godawful baby voice throughout all of these scenes and it reminds me why I rarely rewatch Rory's boyfriend stuff. So irritating. Anyway, back to the example: when Jess starts asking her questions, Rory is fine. She's looking him in the eye and calmly answering that, yes, running into Dean and Clara was a coincidence, she and Dean aren't buddy buddy, and he got her a snow cone because he was buying Clara one. It's when Jess asks "are you guys talking?" that Alexis starts playing Rory as what is probably supposed to be nervous (since she didn't mention that she and Dean did talk earlier in the episode) but, again to me, comes across as her starting to feel intimidated and/or scared. She has trouble making eye contact as she admits that they talked once and briefly gives Jess the same wide eye look that she often gave Dean when he was upset. As she starts to explain how they ran into each other, she agreed to have coffee with Dean, and then they talked about boring stuff the behavior goes away and Rory acts more relaxed and casual. Then she gets to the part where Dean asked if they could be friends. Rory has a blink and you'll miss it moment where she stumbles over her words as she says that she agreed before she regains confidence as she reminds Jess that their small town means she'll run into Dean on occasion and it's best to be polite. She explains that Dean's never done anything bad to her and then Jess interrupts with "I got it". He says it calmly but Rory looks worried as she responds "you're mad", "I'm sorry", "you're really not mad?", "you understand?", "you believe me?", and  "and you're ok with it?". She's back to being confident and happy as Jess gives her a ball to throw and she wins a bear.

There's also the episode where Rory keeps waiting for Jess to call and doesn't leave the house until Lorelai browbeats her into it. Rory finally grows a spine and leaves Jess a message expressing her frustration only for it all to be undone when he shows up in the parking lot. She does the not looking him in the eye thing again as she loses her spine and asks him to erase his messages without listening to them.

Keg!Max! is a more obvious and significant example since the whole episode is meant to set up their breakup and Jess leaving town. They're in one of the bedrooms at Kyle's house and Jess has bottled up his feelings about not graduating. All of his self loathing first manifests in making out and briefly trying to have sex. When Rory stops him he explodes at her and, since she doesn't know the real reason he's upset, gets teary, looks scared, and says "I don't know what I did" before running out of the room.

The next episode Rory and Jess spend their time rotating between avoiding each other and considering talking it out. This is an example of both characters feeling intimidated regarding the other. Rory describes herself as the girl who lets her boyfriend treat her like dirt, showing some awareness of her own increasing avoidance of dealing with their issues. At the end of the episode she's not so intimidated that she avoids Jess when she sees him on the bus but she's still afraid to express her feelings about him and their relationship. She does do so in the finale and, to my recollection, never demonstrates even a hint of being nervous, intimidated, or scared around him going forward.

So, those are my examples. Relatively unimportant until it's time for Jess and Rory to break up, but those are the ones that I noticed as being similar to how Alexis played Rory when Dean was upset. I never rewatch her relationship with Logan at all so it's possible Alexis has played Rory as intimidated/scared around him too (I certainly remember her poor posture but that's about it) but I hate that relationship the most so I'll never know.

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5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Going through season 3 now to get some examples of Alexis' playing Rory as intimidated/scared opposite Jess.

Yeah, those are fair examples. Personally I think the way she was acting at the end of Face Off was because she felt stupid for overreacting to his working late and not calling her rather than being intimidated, but I can agree to disagree. Heh.

I really think JP's acting vs. Milo's acting probably has a lot to do with the impression it leaves. Dean just always came across as really angry, sometimes even a simmering rage thing going on, whereas Jess just seemed distant and annoyed at most. The only time I ever saw Jess really angry was when he was butting heads with Luke or Lorelai, tbh.

ETA - Oh, I thought of one time Jess was actually angry at Rory -- in Swan Song when she couldn't let go of the accusation that he had gotten into a fight with Dean and kept harassing him in front of Emily about it. Looking at that, it's pretty clear to see Milo plays angry way differently than Jared. It's also a justifiable anger, whereas Dean is usually just overreacting and flying off the handle, so maybe that plays into how the scene comes across as well.

Edited by Taryn74
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8 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

She's back to being confident and happy as Jess gives her a ball to throw and she wins a bear.

Going to derail the conversation for a sec because I’ve always hated when Rory is throwing the balls to knock down the jugs that she says something to the effect of “don’t make fun of me. I’m a girl and we’re supposed the throw this way.” 

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4 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Going to derail the conversation for a sec because I’ve always hated when Rory is throwing the balls to knock down the jugs that she says something to the effect of “don’t make fun of me. I’m a girl and we’re supposed the throw this way.” 

I know. For a show that was suppose to be about two strong independent women, it had a lot of little quips against women, fat people shaming, etc. It was that inclusive...

8 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Going through season 3 now to get some examples of Alexis' playing Rory as intimidated/scared opposite Jess.

I do agree with the examples you listed. However, I don't see it as an actual fear of the person inn front of her. It comes across more as fear of disappointing, fear of not being loved, fear of not being good enough, etc. I will say that as @Taryn74 said previously, I think it comes from the acting, whether it is JP's decision or the way he was directed. I just spend the whole time watching scenes with Dean feeling uneasy.

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Okay so I’m watching the episode where Richard and Emily throw a party for Rory to meet Yale boys because they don’t want her to be with Dean. FUCKED UP. But also Rory is such a bing bong ?? She wears a tiara??? And is a big baby and let’s them do that without confronting them even though she is dating Dean. RIDICULOUS

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On 11/12/2020 at 6:29 PM, Lizzie Bo Bizzie said:

Okay so I’m watching the episode where Richard and Emily throw a party for Rory to meet Yale boys because they don’t want her to be with Dean. FUCKED UP. But also Rory is such a bing bong ?? She wears a tiara??? And is a big baby and let’s them do that without confronting them even though she is dating Dean. RIDICULOUS

She only ever confronted Emily. She never said much to Richard even though he treated Dean like shit. I liked her well enough the first few seasons, I guess but she was such a wimp. You can be nice without really being kind. 

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I liked Rory as a child. She was kind, she was generous, she was an introverted reader and studied really hard and she often seemed smarter than her mom about some things. She also could stand up for herself when she needed to: her meltdown at Paris and Tristan was both epic and thoroughly deserved.

Then she hit puberty and got stupid. Her taste in men is abominable. She’s way too enamored of the Snob Crowd. And she does dumb stuff. I don’t see Rory as a child leaping off a three-story scaffolding with a bunch of drunks just because some hot snotty guy was going to. She lies to her mother and it’s not like Lorelai was hard to talk to.  I felt sorry for Rory when Huntsburger and his feral family went after her and when Huntsburger Senior flat-out told her she couldn’t cut it as a journalist. But, hey, life...I doubt many people end up with the careers we thought we wanted as children. For example, I am NOT a 90 lb ballerina. Shocking, I know...

(Disclaimer: I’m only through my first watch and only through most of Season 5. Maybe I’ll like her better later?)

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Quote

 I felt sorry for Rory when Huntsburger and his feral family went after her and when Huntsburger Senior flat-out told her she couldn’t cut it as a journalist.

I didn't. He was right. What really got me were R&E's reaction to it. They were exultant when Rory "crushed" the chubby ballerina but when Mitchum "crushed" Rory they were apoplexic.

Quote

(Disclaimer: I’m only through my first watch and only through most of Season 5. Maybe I’ll like her better later?)

*Shakes Magic 8 Ball* Don't count on it.

Edited by peacheslatour
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2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

(Disclaimer: I’m only through my first watch and only through most of Season 5. Maybe I’ll like her better later?)

HAHAHAHAHA..........oh, you're serious?  Um, well, enjoy.

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I liked her from season 1-5. Then in season 6, the whole dropping out of school and stealing a yaht (technically season 5) was a bit to much. When the only thing that happened was that she was yelled at her internship. Well Michum turned out to be right didn't he.  She does improve a bit in season 7. But then they ruin that with the netflix season. 

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I like Rory until she goes to Yale.  She's annoying and so breathy, but isn't an absolute brat until the Yale years.  She has her moments, but Chilton Rory wasn't as despicable as Yale Rory.  

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19 hours ago, Meow25 said:

I like Rory until she goes to Yale.  She's annoying and so breathy, but isn't an absolute brat until the Yale years.  She has her moments, but Chilton Rory wasn't as despicable as Yale Rory.  

That's when I started hating her too. She had moments before like not breaking up with Dean when she clearly was into Jess. But she was still mostly the Rory I liked since the pilot. All her niceness, empathy, and what I liked about Rory disappeared once she went to Yale. She became a horrible selfish spoiled brat. 

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I liked Rory right up until she got into Harvard and Paris didn't, despite Paris being a legacy. A better show would have had her go to Yale because she got rejected from Harvard (even in 2003, Harvard had way more qualified applicants than they had places for). They might have also let her grapple with the idea that she only got into Yale because she was a legacy, albeit one who also deserved to be there on her own merits. And she still could have kept up her friendship/rivalry with Paris: summer internships, conferences, intercollegiate events. Yeah, Paris probably couldn't have been a series regular any more, but there would have been plenty of opportunities for her to guest star.

It was the same with having her be valedictorian—there is no way that someone who transferred to Chilton from a non-competitive high school in her sophomore year would end up with a higher GPA than the equally smart student who spent her entire high school career there (and who, as far as we know, never got a grade as low as a D on any assignments). Also, Rory's speech sucked. All she did was thank her family and talk about herself; she had nothing to say to or about the class she was graduating with. It was those episodes that made me realize the writers were all in on the idea that Rory is better and more deserving than everyone else.

Then they let up on the idea during the revival for reasons I will never understand. I guess after so much time away from the character, when it was time to revisit her, they didn't like her as much as they did when they were writing the first six seasons.

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1 hour ago, Hera said:

It was the same with having her be valedictorian—there is no way that someone who transferred to Chilton from a non-competitive high school in her sophomore year would end up with a higher GPA than the equally smart student who spent her entire high school career there (and who, as far as we know, never got a grade as low as a D on any assignments). Also, Rory's speech sucked. All she did was thank her family and talk about herself; she had nothing to say to or about the class she was graduating with.

I agree with the rest of your post, but about these two points -- I was always under the impression the valedictorian and salutatorian were selected by the other students (since most of the top students would pretty much have the same exact GPA, also the way it was worded during the episode alluded to her being chosen rather than having earned it); and as for the speech, once she gets past all the mushy family stuff she is going on to a more traditional sounding speech when the scene cuts away. From the transcript -

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RORY: Thank you, Mom. You are my guidepost for everything.

SOOKIE: On the verge of blubbering here.

JACKSON: Not doing too well myself.

LORELAI: Not you, too.

LUKE: I'm blubbering, you're freaks.

RORY: As we prepare ourselves today to leave. . .

 

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Valedictory speeches given like acceptance speeches are a pet peeve of mine.

I liked Rory in season 1. In season 2, she started to get the side-eye from me. Season 3 I found her more irritating. In season 4, I started to like her again. But, after that, nope. She was the worst.

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So...this is my possible revelation du jour. Yes, I have to blame the showrunners for giving the character pretty much zero character growth over the years. Every time Rory seems to mature a bit, she takes three steps back the next episode. 

But the reality is that Alexis Bledel just isn’t a very good actress. There, I said it. She’s a beautiful girl, but her character and mannerisms as young woman Rory are almost exactly the same as she displayed as teen Rory, minus the drive and self-discipline. She’s still slouching awkwardly, shyly looking up from under her hair, and mumbling diffidently most of the time. 

She plays off Lorelai and Paris pretty well, but everyone else? Not so much. I never have been convinced of her passion for any of her boyfriends...half the time she looks like she’s trying to back away when she’s supposed to be in a steamy makeout session. I was going to give her some slack for being really young when the show started, but I just googled and she was nineteen. Hardly a kid.

Feh.

 

Edited by Oldernowiser
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Valedictorian is the top student of the class. If it were simply that Rory had been elected to speak at graduation then she’d be called “class elected speaker” or something else. The schools that do class chosen speaker usually have a quick election among interested students. And it was clear that Rory was required to give the speech rather than it being something she actively pursued. Even if the time Paris took off from school following her meltdown was enough to drop her below even salutatorian status I still don’t buy Rory being the top student. She struggled academically when she first arrived at Chilton which still would have affected her ranking years later. The far more realistic outcome would have been maintaining the top 5% status she achieved by the end of her first year. She couldn’t just be the chosen speaker even though we know she was generally liked by her classmates and popular enough to swing the election in Paris’ favor after joining her as a VP candidate. Nope it needed to be clear that Rory Is The Most Special Ever!! So valedictorian it was.

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She likes the money. She is just like her mother and Logan who complain about their parents being controlling but continue to accept their money. Like, when dropped out of school. She stayed on her grandparents dime, claiming to be "on her own" and when she didn't like their rules, she left... in the car they paid for...

 

On 1/5/2021 at 5:06 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Valedictorian is the top student of the class. If it were simply that Rory had been elected to speak at graduation then she’d be called “class elected speaker” or something else. The schools that do class chosen speaker usually have a quick election among interested students. And it was clear that Rory was required to give the speech rather than it being something she actively pursued. Even if the time Paris took off from school following her meltdown was enough to drop her below even salutatorian status I still don’t buy Rory being the top student. She struggled academically when she first arrived at Chilton which still would have affected her ranking years later. The far more realistic outcome would have been maintaining the top 5% status she achieved by the end of her first year. She couldn’t just be the chosen speaker even though we know she was generally liked by her classmates and popular enough to swing the election in Paris’ favor after joining her as a VP candidate. Nope it needed to be clear that Rory Is The Most Special Ever!! So valedictorian it was.

yes! and if she was sooooo very smart, why did she not get any scholarship money for college?

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Does anyone remember what Paris said to Rory when Rory was worried about Paris being upset that she didn't get Valedictorian?

PARIS: Sure. I actually googled the personal histories of Ivy League valedictorians going back twenty-five years, and found some enlightening statistics. They don't necessarily do too well in later life, did you know that?

It looks like she was right. 

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7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Does anyone remember what Paris said to Rory when Rory was worried about Paris being upset that she didn't get Valedictorian?

PARIS: Sure. I actually googled the personal histories of Ivy League valedictorians going back twenty-five years, and found some enlightening statistics. They don't necessarily do too well in later life, did you know that?

It looks like she was right. 

It took me many years and over 20 viewings of GG to have a light bulb come on and come to the conclusion that ASP meant for Rory to be a failure from day one. It most likely would have happened in Season 7 if the Palladinos had written it. She took care of that in the revival.

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6 hours ago, chessiegal said:

It took me many years and over 20 viewings of GG to have a light bulb come on and come to the conclusion that ASP meant for Rory to be a failure from day one. It most likely would have happened in Season 7 if the Palladinos had written it. She took care of that in the revival.

She sure doesn't seem to like her very much. Stephen King got upset with the portrayal of Jack Torrence in The Shining movie (the Kubrick one) because Jack represented King. I guess ASP thinks she's Lorelai. I wonder who the mean girl in he life was who inspired Rory?

Edited by peacheslatour
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On 1/2/2021 at 12:14 AM, Hera said:

I liked Rory right up until she got into Harvard and Paris didn't, despite Paris being a legacy. A better show would have had her go to Yale because she got rejected from Harvard (even in 2003, Harvard had way more qualified applicants than they had places for). They might have also let her grapple with the idea that she only got into Yale because she was a legacy, albeit one who also deserved to be there on her own merits. And she still could have kept up her friendship/rivalry with Paris: summer internships, conferences, intercollegiate events. Yeah, Paris probably couldn't have been a series regular any more, but there would have been plenty of opportunities for her to guest star.

It was the same with having her be valedictorian—there is no way that someone who transferred to Chilton from a non-competitive high school in her sophomore year would end up with a higher GPA than the equally smart student who spent her entire high school career there (and who, as far as we know, never got a grade as low as a D on any assignments). Also, Rory's speech sucked. All she did was thank her family and talk about herself; she had nothing to say to or about the class she was graduating with. It was those episodes that made me realize the writers were all in on the idea that Rory is better and more deserving than everyone else.

Then they let up on the idea during the revival for reasons I will never understand. I guess after so much time away from the character, when it was time to revisit her, they didn't like her as much as they did when they were writing the first six seasons.

 

On 1/5/2021 at 4:33 PM, Oldernowiser said:

So...this is my possible revelation du jour. Yes, I have to blame the showrunners for giving the character pretty much zero character growth over the years. Every time Rory seems to mature a bit, she takes three steps back the next episode. 

But the reality is that Alexis Bledel just isn’t a very good actress. There, I said it. She’s a beautiful girl, but her character and mannerisms as young woman Rory are almost exactly the same as she displayed as teen Rory, minus the drive and self-discipline. She’s still slouching awkwardly, shyly looking up from under her hair, and mumbling diffidently most of the time. 

She plays off Lorelai and Paris pretty well, but everyone else? Not so much. I never have been convinced of her passion for any of her boyfriends...half the time she looks like she’s trying to back away when she’s supposed to be in a steamy makeout session. I was going to give her some slack for being really young when the show started, but I just googled and she was nineteen. Hardly a kid.

Feh.

 

 

On 1/13/2021 at 11:32 AM, peacheslatour said:

She sure doesn't seem to like her very much. Stephen King got upset with the portrayal of Jack Torrence in The Shining movie (the Kubrick one) because Jack represented King. I guess ASP thinks she's Lorelai. I wonder who the mean girl in he life was who inspired Rory?

I think one of the problems was when the show runners got it in their head that Rory was a clone of Lorelai. In the first season we see that Rory and her mother have this amazing relationship but they are each their own separate person as well, even though Rory is just a kid.

Ironically, as Rory got older she kind of devolved to a less interesting person than her younger years. 

The problem was that Rory was always the calm passive Yang to Lorelai's high energy Yin. If Rory was more like Lorelai than they probably would have had a more contentious relationship like Lorelai and Emily.

In the revival there is a scene where Rory talks about how she is going to be so proactive in getting her next job. It sounds so false coming from her because Rory is never proactive (at least not in her older years). She is the type of person that life happens to...not someone that grabs life by the horns.

We later see her falling asleep while interviewing someone for her "NYC Lines" article. This is not professional and why the heck is she so tired? In contrast, Lorelai is going out and getting food, sneakers, and a whole bunch of other stuff because she does grab life by the horns and that is just part of her DNA.

If Rory had gotten pregnant at 16, she would have probably married the guy and then cheated on him. There is no way she could have built the life Lorelai did from nothing.

However, there is nothing wrong with being a lowkey character. I think they just wanted Rory to be as dynamic as her mother and that was never going to be Rory.

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53 minutes ago, qtpye said:

She is the type of person that life happens to...not someone that grabs life by the horns.

So true. I legit LOL'd when Chris said (in the Revival) that she was a force of nature. Bahahahahaha. A cold drizzle or a lingering fog maybe.

 

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

She never had Lorelai's gumption. 

I think back to Paris immediately jumping on the "censorship in a small town" story in RiSH, and she also made moves to set up an interview with Asher the first time she met him (which, of course, turned into more than an interview LOL). Neither of those things would have ever occurred to Rory.

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3 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think one of the problems was when the show runners got it in their head that Rory was a clone of Lorelai. In the first season we see that Rory and her mother have this amazing relationship but they are each their own separate person as well, even though Rory is just a kid.

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

You're right. She never had Lorelai's gumption. 

The thing is, I think S1-S2 Rory did have Lorelai's gumption, but it manifested differently. One of my favorite Rory storylines is Season 2, Episode 5 ("Nick & Nora, Sid & Nancy"), where Paris is editor of The Franklin, deliberately gives Rory the wrong meeting time, so Rory turns up late, looking bad to the faculty advisor, and the only assignment left is covering the repaving of the school parking lot. Rory knows what Paris is trying to do, and instead of complaining or blowing off the story, she writes the best article anyone has ever read about repaving a parking lot. The faculty advisor raves about it and tells Paris to stop wasting Rory's talent. Paris, of course, still manages to torture Rory by assigning her an interview with Max Medina, but still—I think Rory showed gumption there, but not the way her mom would. In similar circumstances, I think Lorelai would also prevail, but she would have found a way to take her equivalent of Paris down.

Anyway, that version of Rory was so much more interesting than the one who went to Yale and had everything handed to her, and the only people who didn't adore her at first sight were people with ulterior motives, like Logan's family. If the Pallandinos had been in the same frame of mind in Seasons 1 and 2 that they were in Season 5 and 6, they probably would have ended the "Rory gets a crappy assignment for the school paper" storyline with the teacher promoting her to co-editor of The Franklin on the spot. Fortunately for them, they got a do-over with The Yale Daily News. Rory showed zero interest in every being editor-in-chief, but everyone loved and respected her so much that they just had to give it to her after Paris's meltdown.

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15 hours ago, Hera said:

The thing is, I think S1-S2 Rory did have Lorelai's gumption, but it manifested differently. One of my favorite Rory storylines is Season 2, Episode 5 ("Nick & Nora, Sid & Nancy"), where Paris is editor of The Franklin, deliberately gives Rory the wrong meeting time, so Rory turns up late, looking bad to the faculty advisor, and the only assignment left is covering the repaving of the school parking lot. Rory knows what Paris is trying to do, and instead of complaining or blowing off the story, she writes the best article anyone has ever read about repaving a parking lot. The faculty advisor raves about it and tells Paris to stop wasting Rory's talent. Paris, of course, still manages to torture Rory by assigning her an interview with Max Medina, but still—I think Rory showed gumption there, but not the way her mom would. In similar circumstances, I think Lorelai would also prevail, but she would have found a way to take her equivalent of Paris down.

Anyway, that version of Rory was so much more interesting than the one who went to Yale and had everything handed to her, and the only people who didn't adore her at first sight were people with ulterior motives, like Logan's family. If the Pallandinos had been in the same frame of mind in Seasons 1 and 2 that they were in Season 5 and 6, they probably would have ended the "Rory gets a crappy assignment for the school paper" storyline with the teacher promoting her to co-editor of The Franklin on the spot. Fortunately for them, they got a do-over with The Yale Daily News. Rory showed zero interest in every being editor-in-chief, but everyone loved and respected her so much that they just had to give it to her after Paris's meltdown.

Yes, it was awesome to see Rory's gumption in the first few seasons. She had a quiet strength that was far different than her mother but just as effective. As a nerdy book loving introvert...I really related to her.

Later, she just became a wet blanket that had everything handed to her. In later seasons, her article about repaving the parking lot would be so awesome that the New York Times would have called and offered her an internship right on the spot, even though those are only reserved for college students.

When a character becomes Mary Sue, it is because the writer no longer are putting effort into making her complex. I really hate that this tends to happen to female characters much more than male characters.

The repaving the parking lot story was a great example of when they SHOWED us that Rory could be amazing and later they only TOLD us that she was, without giving us anything to back up this claim.

Edited by qtpye
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27 minutes ago, qtpye said:

The repaving the parking lot story was a great example of when they SHOWED us that Rory could be amazing and later they only TOLD us that she was, without giving us anything to back up this claim.

A little louder for the ones in the back! I wish I could print this out and send it to ASP. LOL

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4 hours ago, qtpye said:

When a character becomes Mary Sue, it is because the writer no longer are putting effort into making her complex.

Yeah, it really feels like they stopped trusting the audience. In the first season, Rory got a D on an assignment, but we as the audience knew she was still smart and just struggling to find her feet at her new school. And it wasn't just Rory. I know the April storyline was meant as a "Fuck you" to the network, but I think all the plot contrivances to keep Luke and Lorelai apart stemmed from the same problem. They couldn't trust that the characters could deal with normal relationship problems or be interesting enough on their own without the will they/won't they tension. And it was so unnecessary because there was plenty of drama to be mined just from Emily, Richard, and Christopher (not to mention the weirdness of dating the legal guardian/father figure of your daughter's boyfriend). I think maybe the problem is that the show went on for seven seasons when the writers only had enough ideas for three.

Back to Rory: I think it's also incredibly hard to write a high school character transition to college. It's basically writing a spin-off of the show rather than a continuation of it.

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I agree and you could say that about almost everyone in the early seasons vs the later seasons

Rory was a great kid. She loved her mom, school and hanging out with Lane. I hate her for not breaking up with Dean when she wanted Jess. But she also volunteered to house sit Babette's kitten. We saw her bonding with Richard. When Paris gave her the wrong time and a boring story in the paper Rory turned it around by writing a great article. Calling out Paris in Paris is Burning for Paris telling everyone about Lorelai and Max kissing, and despite not liking her offered if Paris ever needed to talk. That's a nice thing to do for someone who had been treating her like crap. Annoyed that everyone blamed Jess for the accident while letting her off scot free. I loved her apologizing to Taylor about the car wrecking his sign. Yeah Taylor is annoying but she still felt bad about it. What I like best about Rory dating Dean in season one is watching Rory going through all of the normal things a teen girl goes through dating for the first time. Nervous, not sure what to wear, the awkward talk about whether he was her boyfriend. Same with her first day at Chilton it goes mostly bad for her then watching her decide to beat Paris to answering the question. She was very nice but also had a backbone. Going to the grandparents to invite them to Lorelai's graduation. Even her going off on the entire class after she was late to take the test. Yeah, it was wrong of Rory, but you could see how she got there. It had been her dream to go to Chilton and it wasn't going well she was behind in her studies, she had Paris treating her like crap, Tristian being an ass, she just got a D for the first time in her life and spent all night studying for the test. It was just all building up until Rory blew. There were a lot of really great moments and things Rory did in the early seasons. All of those disappeared once she got into Yale. She became an unrecognizable spoiled brat who got everything she wanted without ever trying.

Lorelai was a great mom. She listened to Rory and gave her space but also was a mom when she needed to be whether insisting Rory goes to Chilton when Rory didn't want to go after meeting Dean, calling her out for chasing Jess in season three, and comforting Rory after Dean and Rory broke up. They were really close but Lorelai was still a mom when she needed to be. She was a good friend to Sookie. Helping her get ready for her first date with Jackson and at the restaurant. Dropping everything to comfort Babette and Morey when their cat died. Taking Rory to Harvard. Driving her to Boston for Sherri's baby shower and supporting Rory to go to the birth even though it was hard for Lorelai. Being a great friend to Lane (although that did remain in the later seasons).  Being a good friend to Luke dropping everything when his uncle died to run his diner and talk to him. Picking out a present for Rachel's birthday for Luke and clothes. Talking him down when he bought the building. We also got moments that showed Lorelai really did care about her parents worrying about Emily all through Presenting Lorelai Gilmore episode and dropping by at the end to hang, her reaction when she hears Richard's in the hospital and dropping everything, the moment between Richard and Lorelai. All that disappeared.

Even with those I really don't like. Like Emily and Richard. You could see they really did want a relationship with Lorelai. Emily got the most moments where we saw that. Her fear when Trix wants to give Lorelai money to pay for Chilton that Lorelai won't ever come back and Richard can't say anything to despute that. They both look really sad. Emily asking Lorelai at the spa why they don't have a relationship like her and Rory. Emily not knowing what to do with Lorelai stopping by to hang but pleased, Richard letting Lorelai sneak out from the date Emily set her up with. Both attending Lorelai's graduation with a camera crew and the moment when Lorelai graduates Richard looks emotional and Emily cries, the graduation picture of the three of them, Lorelai happy they came at the end, Richard giving her money for graduating. Emily taking care of Lorelai when she hurt her back. Lorelai helping Richard set up his office. Emily taking Lorelai's advice at the dinner for dealing with Trix by taking a very long time to finish. Emily's reaction when she hears from Sookie that Lorelai's engaged and going to tell Richard that he's going to apologize to Rory because their daughter was getting married and didn't tell them when Rory gets married she wants her to tell them. All that went away and we got Emily and Richard just being so horrible it was hard to by that Lorelai didn't cut them out of her life for good. 

They had so much to work with and instead they turned interesting characters with flaws into horrible people.  

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The Rory of S1-3 who had a backbone and knew what she wanted in terms of education and career and who stood up for herself, that was a good character. My only problem with her in the early years was how she handled Dean and Jess. But I always chalked this up to her inexperience and also her only role model being Lorelai. You parents are supposed to teach you about relationships and lets face it, Lorelai was a train wreck in those (which she even admitted to Rory and didn't want her to be like Lorelai in that regard). So there was room for growth for Rory as a person.

S4 is when it started to go down hill IMO. For one, Yale Rory was boring as hell. At least Paris and Lane were there sometimes and they are dynamic characters. But Rory on her own...BORING. S5 is the point of no return, once she gets involved with Logan and the LaDB is when it all falls apart.

Alexis Bledel is not the worst actress in the world but she is so awkward and timid when acting opposite most characters. She just never screamed reporter to me and I don't think that was supposed to be the case with early Rory. Though considering that she couldn't even call and schedule a meeting with a former student in order to ask questions and had her mom do it, maybe we were given early signs. But the combo of Bledel and the writing was never realistic to me for the aspiration of becoming a reporter.

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Quote

S4 is when it started to go down hill IMO. For one, Yale Rory was boring as hell. At least Paris and Lane were there sometimes and they are dynamic characters. But Rory on her own...BORING. S5 is the point of no return, once she gets involved with Logan and the LaDB is when it all falls apart.

When she came home crying to her mom about her study tree was when the rot started to set in.

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9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

When she came home crying to her mom about her study tree was when the rot started to set in.

Yeah, that was really so stupid. She couldn't find a single other place to study? I do love Lorelai calling her on it telling her that if her study plan doesn't work out figure something else because she's not two. 

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8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah, that was really so stupid. She couldn't find a single other place to study? I do love Lorelai calling her on it telling her that if her study plan doesn't work out figure something else because she's not two. 

I believe her exact words were "Suck it up."

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21 hours ago, Smad said:

But the combo of Bledel and the writing was never realistic to me for the aspiration of becoming a reporter.

Certainly not a journalist in the mold of Christiane Amanpour. It's hard to imagine Rory running around war zones or reporting from falling regimes. In the early seasons, you could chalk it up to her being young and sheltered, but over the run of the show, any time Rory got out of comfort zone it meant her dealing with people who are wealthier and more privileged than she was. All her travel interest (and experience) seems to have been visiting safe and stable parts of the world. Anyway, I think her temperament was more suited to research-based long-form pieces than to being a foreign correspondent.

21 hours ago, Smad said:

My only problem with her in the early years was how she handled Dean and Jess. But I always chalked this up to her inexperience and also her only role model being Lorelai.

Yeah, same. Lots of people are some degree of shitty in their early relationships. Her behavior wasn't great, but I thought it was realistic for a 17 year old. Same with being aware that her dynamic with Jess was dysfunctional but unable to bring herself to do anything about it. There was a consistency there: she never wanted to be the one to initiate a break-up.

As for Alexis Bledel, I swear she became a worse actress as the series went on. I remember seeing a random online commenter speculate that she took acting classes during the run of Gilmore Girls and it messed with the natural way she played the character in the early seasons. Seems plausible to me. I find that no matter what else I see her in, I never find her line delivery very convincing. For Rory, that detachment works (or can work), since the character is frequently snarky and flippant. In other roles, not so much.

Edited by Hera
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Here is a thought that struck me last night. Why wasn't Rory ( and Paris for that matter) in a sorority? Rory loved hierarchical, structured environments like the newspaper, the DAR and the Puffs. Surely Rory was some kind of Legacy, she should have had no problem getting in.

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25 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Here is a thought that struck me last night. Why wasn't Rory ( and Paris for that matter) in a sorority? Rory loved hierarchical, structured environments like the newspaper, the DAR and the Puffs. Surely Rory was some kind of Legacy, she should have had no problem getting in.

I shudder at the thought of the Ps idea of Greek life so I’m glad they didn’t do it. To answer your question, Rory may not have been a Leg since we didn’t hear anything about Emily being in one. Or, if we assume she was, Yale may not have had a chapter from her sorority on campus. I think they have only a few right now and there are 26 nationwide.

Now Rory would get in since she’s an ideal candidate on paper but she’d end up being the member who just comes to the required stuff like weekly chapter meetings, recruitment, initiation, and philanthropy but that’s it. Those members drive everyone else nuts because you can’t depend on them for anything since they don’t actually care about the organization and (in my experience) they act superior in their not caring.

Paris wouldn’t get in based on personality. She could be a Leg to every chapter, is certainly impressive on paper, but would get rejected the second she opened her mouth.

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16 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I shudder at the thought of the Ps idea of Greek life so I’m glad they didn’t do it. To answer your question, Rory may not have been a Leg since we didn’t hear anything about Emily being in one. Or, if we assume she was, Yale may not have had a chapter from her sorority on campus. I think they have only a few right now and there are 26 nationwide.

Now Rory would get in since she’s an ideal candidate on paper but she’d end up being the member who just comes to the required stuff like weekly chapter meetings, recruitment, initiation, and philanthropy but that’s it. Those members drive everyone else nuts because you can’t depend on them for anything since they don’t actually care about the organization and (in my experience) they act superior in their not caring.

Paris wouldn’t get in based on personality. She could be a Leg to every chapter, is certainly impressive on paper, but would get rejected the second she opened her mouth.

I'm a Kappa Kappa Gamma leg. and I was told at orientation that they needed no other info about me.

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Just now, peacheslatour said:

I'm a Kappa Kappa Gamma leg. and I was told at orientation that they needed no other info about me.

Alpha Delta Pi here! We were always told that Legacies and Recs were ideal but weren’t required to give them a bid. That way if one comes along who is rude or offensive we didn’t have to put up with that. This may change school to school but we were told that this applied to every sorority. Frats could still automatically bid based on Legacy status though.

Even if a chapter were required to give Paris a bid I’d bet the president and recruitment chair would be calling the national office to beg for a rule change after meeting her. 

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I am not surprised that Rory did not join a sorority but I am surprised the show runners did not have several sororities begging for her to become a sister.

I am happy we never got a storyline where Paris wants to pledge a sorority but will only do it with Rory and Paris gets rejected and Rory gets in with ease. Then Rory will reject the membership to be in unity with Paris.

This is usually the way Rory's college years story lines went.

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I'm not sure it would have made much sense for either character to join a sorority, but watching Paris do it (or attempt to do it) would have been fun.

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I shudder at the thought of the Ps idea of Greek life so I’m glad they didn’t do it.

I suspect they don't have a particularly positive view of it, otherwise Rory probably would have been part of it. I also think the Life and Death Brigade basically covered everything they would have done with a sorority anyway, but allowing them the freedom of being able to make it up as they went along, and of keeping things coed (which was good, since Rory didn't seem to make any female friends until her last year of college). Plus, since it was a made-up secret society, they could claim it was even more prestigious and exclusive than any sorority or fraternity.

Edited by Hera
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