S03.E11: Midnight City

[statsgirl]

The question is, why don't they write Laurel being competent?  It would be just as easy as to write her like this.

 

 I've written this before and I'm standing firm in my belief - I think they're going so far with this because Sara is legit coming back. How or why I don't know, but I really think it's gonna happen. It's a shame they're making everyone look like shit in the process of whatever it is they're doing though.

You should watch the beginning of the ArrowAfterShow. John Campea brings up something that suggests just that.

[kismet]

Even though we saw Oliver when he woke up and everything he said then made it seem like he'd come back to Starling City ready to live, I really do think there's some significance there in him thinking that loving Felicity and having a life will keep him from doing what he needs to do to get the job done (dreaming that he didn't go to save Thea because he stayed with her). This is why I'm so conflicted on what I think is going to happen when he comes back. He sounded like he'd be ready to fight for a life for himself, but that dream made me think he was still afraid to do that.

After this episode, I just dont know. My gut was so confident that he was gonna come back Full Arrow, S1 badass Oliver but then this episode made him so philosophical and humbled. His talk with Maseo & Tatsu. His desire just seemed to point towards an actual life for him & not just for other people. But I do agree, his fear is very strong with him. I do feel like it will be his fear that will prevent him from pursuing a life. But part me really wants this softer more astute Oliver to come back wanting to actually have a life... Im with you, I just don;t know what next week is gonna bring?

 

Thea - FINALLY Thea has a little control of her life.  I'm telling myself that the real reason why she's not running with Dear Old Dad is she is waiting to hear from Oliver but I suppose she is also feeling way over confident about DoD's abilities.  It was a nice moment when Thea is telling Malcolm she is not scared, they should be scared of us and Malcolm just gets this look on his face of just pure hell yeah.  Part pride but also a big part watch out Ra's. 

 

--Back to the dream sequence - we see how horrified Felicity is by the blood pouring out of his mouth (a well timed end to that kiss, may I say).  Maybe the point of the dream is him not wanting to put Felicity through all this again? 

Oliver wanting to not make Felicity suffer may be how he reinterprets the dream when he returns and sees the Felicity may have moved fwd with Ray (cue the nausea). Her reaction to his return will set the course of the remainder of the season for Oliver development. If MG is not overhyping (unlikely, he thrives off the hype/notoriety) then I think people speculating that Felicity will be the one that causes Oliver to revert to some Darker versions of himself may be true. Without her presence, he may lose hope. If he already felt scared & unworthy for a relationship, and then the girl rejects him, I can imagine Oliver getting dark very quickly. Cue the angst music & stock up on the ice cream/booze/whatever it takes to help you thru the dark days ahead...

[BkWurm1]

Wanted to point out a SWF moment for Laurel in this episode.  Dude has corned woman in a dark alley and is ready for them to do "it" the hard way or the harder way (guess which one makes him smirk extra creepily) when Laurel shows up. The dude happily informs us that he'd heard there was female mask protecting women in the area.  Are we supposed to think he means Laurel in the last week or that he knows Sara's reputation?  Either way, now Laurel is all about saving woman from suffering at the hands of men.  Can't wait until Sin shows up though I half expect her to tell Laurel she'll be her little sister now that Sara is gone -  gag. 

 

I comfort myself that Bex has another gig lined up so we don't have to see that.

Edited January 29, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Actionmage]

I want that thug to have a good defense lawyer and by good, I mean one with a good rep, kind of like Perry Mason, but less picky.

 

And he tears Laurel up on threatening his client, especially about intimating that he'd end up in Belle Reve! (Where comics!Suicide Squad is based. In Louisiana. In a swamp.) I want it so we get to hear her excuse-- "Once you let in the darkness, it never leaves you."  In the meantime, Helena has come back, on the side of the angels and tells Laurel it was crap advice when she was in a bad head space.  Laurel can have her same expression as when Slade revealed Ollie's secret to her.

 

People before me have been pretty eloquent, so I will try not to cover too much of the same ground.

 

*DJ Douche-- he is answering to Maseo, but that doesn't automatically put him on Ra's dole. Maseo has to have some contacts or third parties to work through from his time in Japan and China/ARGUS. Right? Still, like others, it made him 1000x more interesting. Please let the douche thing be a total and complete act. Please?

 

*Ray/Felicity-- Keep them more of a Front Page/ His Girl Friday-style friendly boss/Veep thing and I can roll with them.

 

*Diggle/Roy-- Keeping the important traditions going. Slante! I also appreciated Diggle telling Roy not to put the alderman on his shoulders; it truly was Brick's call, no matter the provocation.

 

*Laurel --as an "effective" ADA-- see above. I just---::noises::  I didn't hate her until she continued to lie to her father!

 

*Seeing the helicopter ladder got me missing Sally and Love fern, unless I missed LF in the scenes in the foundry.

 

*Hopefully, Thea is playing a super-long con and will be a BAMF alongside her surviving brother, avenge her murdered brother and decide she likes being more quiet than Ollie, but is okay helping on big stuff. I mean, someone from the Queens has to be visibly solvent, right? *g* (They get to keep the club and Thea's cool or Thea's not cool and she gifts them with Sherwood Florist?) I liked that she pointed out that no matter where they go, Ra's is going to keep looking, so why hassle with going somewhere else. I did like that there was a bit of respect for her reasoning, but that keeps getting overwhelmed by the bsc.

 

*While, as I watched, the "Didn't you quit" didn't sound sharp to me, it was still a stupid line/ thing to say. If you want to be sole vigilante with no back-up, keep talking like that. We saw how spectacular your first "save" went as a solo vigilante, so...

 

*Flashbacks--I enjoyed them, the badass trio and an actually frustrated China White ( Hi, Kelly Hu!! ::waves:: )

 

* I just realized-- Diggle is still the Black Driver! To quote Full House, "How rude!"

 

*Brick--I am loving Vinnie Jones as Brick; he's fun, scary and presents a unique challenge for our heroes. I had to laugh about the surveillance on Brick moving the aldermen. I was paying attention to the monitors behind the team and saw Brick look up directly at the camera. He stood staring at the camera for the  majority of the scene! Brick sure likes to give good facial recognition picture!

 

While I hated the continuing wtfery of Quentin in the dark, it wasn't a bad episode, but - to steal from Bloom County- "Lord it wasn't good."

 

#TellQuentin!

 

#InformationWantsToBeFree!

[kismet]

I wish they made better use of that dream sequence instead of just showing ... well, I'm not exactly sure what it was supposed to show us. Regret on Oliver's part for leaving Felicity, I guess? I think the dream would have worked better if it were shown as part of Oliver's fight to return to the land of the living (not that he entirely left it). Then Tatsu's line about his will to live would have had a bit more support. But they decided to tell us things again, instead of showing.

Thats their kyrptonite, achille's heal, fatal flaw... whatever you wanna call it. Everything that was successful in previous seasons worked because they showed the audience. The actors made us believe & see sparks/stuff that wasn't there or was never planned to be. And its not just Olicity, its Malcolm, Moira, Dyla, Diggle & Oliver bromance, the list can go on. I never once questioned if Malcolm was as evil as he said he was & even when he gave such noble reasons for his masterplan - I still didn't trust him, but gosh darn it, there was a fraction of me that empathized with his grief even is his plan was diabolical. That's what showing us is all about. That's why Slade's story fell flat once they tried to explain to us why he was so mad at Oliver with the whole Shado love angle (crappy storyline, wasted character death). Mid season finale S2 with the big Slade reveal, totally bought him as angry & looking for revenge. Flash fwd to end of S2, although I still felt his anger & revenge - I was totally not buying the whole Shado thing, which made me question why are the writers trying to give us a rationale to fear/hate Slade. Betrayal under the influence of Mirakuru, leading to death by arrow to eye with miraculous resurrection is enough for me to believe Slade may have some unresolved anger towards Oliver, couple that with poor coping mechanisms & a short fuse. That would have been enough for me, no need to throw in some half-assed backstory about a non-existent love triangle. Its not bad writing to use what your actors bring to the characters, or to monopolize on something that is sparking on the screen. It is bad writing however to bulldoze your stories through ridiculous spoken narratives or random cast/ep interviews. People tend to believe what they see and what is authentic, there is definitely some unrequited hubris in thinking that your so phenomenal you can make the people believe what you write, even if it makes no sense at all.

[BkWurm1]

Other random stuff.

 

So Ray gets the Mayor to schedule the meeting three hours early but is still late. 

Is Felicity now considered a leading citizen?  It would make more sense for her to be in that meeting if she was Ray's EA.  I guess he just brings her everywhere now?

Felicity during the fight is definitely trying to hold him back (after he almost gets shot by the machine gun) so later when we see her clinging to him, it stems from this. 

Also interesting to note that the only reason he gets a good punch in at all is that the guys machine gun jams in the first place (which I guess he later fixes?)

When Ray, Quentin, and the Mayor are meeting with Brick a) was he there in case they needed a lot of money quickly?  b) Did I hear Brick call Starling "Star City"?

When telling Quentin that the Arrow was gone, Felicity never says he's dead.  Last week she told Ray that she lost someone but has she actually said Oliver's dead?

Roy - oh my brave boy.  So proud of him for standing up to Malcolm though yes, he did flinch at least once. 

DJ Douche - Please die soon.

Edited January 29, 2015 by BkWurm1

[gpgurl50]

I'm wondering if now that all of Team Arrow is in on the Sara lie, the truth will come out.  Like Thea will find the video on Malcolm's phone and turn herself in for the crime and tell Quentin that Laurel said Sara is dead.  Then Laurel as Sara will call for another favor/ update with Quentin and he'll learn the whole team was working together to lie to him.  Then he'll turn against vigilantes again.

[Actionmage]

That is not a horrible idea, gpgurl50! Unfortunately, it is this show. *sigh*

[kismet]

Went to rewatch the dream sequence and noticed some of the new scenes used beneath Oliver's 5 years in hell, mission to save city, others have joined my fight speech.  One of them has Mama Smaok in her bright blue dress in the background.  That made me happy. 

 

Now on to why I was rewatching that dream sequence.  EBR replicated her performance but SA looked and sounded soooo odd.  He smiled a little while saying he wouldn't be going to fight Ra's if he didn't think he could win and it just took me totally out of the moment the first time around.  The pacing still seems rushed and again he's smiling so that freaks me out lol, (maybe used deliberately so we know this can't be real) but on second view, (and third and forth and fifth...) it is a really sweet moment, maybe Oliver regretting not being with her in the first place?

 

I wonder the significance of Oliver once AGAIN saying that he loves her.  This time it's not two things he knows, he's sure of one thing, that he loves Felicity.  Sorry sis, lol. 

Is there a copy of this bolded part yet available online? I missed the first few seconds and only a saw Oliver & Felicity in the foundry redeux.

[BunsenBurner]

Watched the show with my brother. He is a big BC fan. When he saw Laurel come out in costume and then start fighting he got furious. It was really hilarious. He said she looked like a dominatrix and that she looked really old. Hated the wig it was always in her face and said it would take at least 10 years for her to come up to speed with Arrow and Diggle. Hated the buckles but hated her wig even more.

 

Made me angry that Roy got to be called Red Arrow before Oliver got to be called Green Arrow. Diggle needs a name.

 

Did not like the show  and will not be watching the next one haven't watched the previous one either. I am just not interested in the show any more.  The writers have ruined the show for me. I am so disappointed I think this is their worst show ever.

[BkWurm1]

After rewatching the dream sequence I let the episode keep playing. More random thoughts

 

Felicity and Quentin's scene together - it just breaks me how subdued and almost spacy Felicity was when the Arrow was brought up, like she was off in her mind rocking in a corner with her eyes closed and her fingers in her ears going this is not happening even as she was participating in the conversation.  

 

Laurel insisting on suiting up and leaving Dig to watch the coms.  I thought at first that she had withheld the location of Brick and the Alderman, but Roy had already punched everything in to the computers.  Now I think that Dig was ok with Laurel dying otherwise why in the hell would he be ok with her going in his stead?  And oh, she's sooo obnoxious her as she storms out, pulling the dead sibling card and I thought you of all people would understand.

 

 While, as I watched, the "Didn't you quit" didn't sound sharp to me, it was still a stupid line/ thing to say. If you want to be sole vigilante with no back-up, keep talking like that. We saw how spectacular your first "save" went as a solo vigilante, so...

 

I had to laugh.  It wasn't delivered in a snotty tone but just the line is so Laurel. 

 

Something else kind of hilarious?  Why has no one on this show commented on the oddity of Brick not getting actually hurt by bullets and arrows?  Also, why wasn't Laurel using the sonic devices when they approached the van?  It wasn't a one and done device when Sara had it. 

Edited January 29, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Duke Silver]

This show.  Ugh.

 

--I don't understand, at all, the point of QL not being in the know about Sara's death.  It just makes LL come across as needy/stupid, to me at least.  And Team Arrow, especially Felicity, is helping to perpetuate the lie?  WHY????  What is their stake in lying to the man?  I don't get it.

 

--I had hopes for Thea at one time, especially after Moira was killed off, but she just comes across as totally dense to me at this point.

 

--Laurel...ehhh.  Not gonna beat that dead horse.

 

--Not liking the writing for Felicity in this episode.  I was worried that she might be getting too popular for the showrunners' tastes, and might get some ill treatment via the writing room.  I thought I was being cynical, but a part of me is worried they might start dismantling her character to put the focus on others...

 

The thing I liked:  Oliver, Maseo & Tatsu fighting as a team, at least for a moment.

 

I didn't bother w/ Arrow until about 2/3 of the way through Season 2.  Season 3 has been not great.  I'll hang out long enough to see what happens when Oliver returns, but probably not long after that.

[Xenith22]

They already had the guy booked on assault charges.  There were at least six, maybe seven extremely credible witnesses there. One was the mayor. One was a billionaire. One was the police chief.  Getting a judge to agree to deny bail and toss the guy into jail for a few months while awaiting trial - and then delaying the trial for whatever reason - would not have been difficult. I mean, in real life, they're just getting around to jury selection for that Boston Marathon guy, and that happened in May 2013.  All she had to do was point out that she could choose which jail he'd be in while awaiting trial.

Her main threat was that gang killing him.  The gang would only have been interested in killing him because of her false charges.  Honestly this did not bother me at all?  I mean Oliver still continues to intimidate hoods into confessing by threatening death when he has no intention of carrying it out.  So is that not a lie?  And look at any of the popular law enforcements shows and you will find them rife with perps being urged to make confessions under false premises such as implying someone else is about to confess or rat, or that evidence exists which does not really exist had they called the bluff instead of confessing.  It's classic TV cop schtick.

 

1)  The first time Diggle stayed behind was because they were hoping to send a message to the gangsters will the Red Arrow (Wasn't he supposed to be going by Arsenal now?) and Canary personas who already had reps.  The second time Diggle had to stay behind to keep the helicopter in the air.  Felicity does not know how to fly, and this was a rescue mission where they needed to prepared to make a quick getaway.  Some helicopters can take upwards of 5 minutes to be ready for takeoff.  So the pilot, Diggle could not leave the chopper to go inside.

 

More stuff I feel oddly compelled to try to defend on this show:

 

2.)  Laurel did not really have a more impressive showing against Brick than anyone else had.  He overpowered her fairly easily, but still went easy on her because of her sex allowing her to catch him offguard with the groin kick.  Diggle managed to hold his own with him for a good while, and Brick was not taking him lightly.

 

3,)  Quentin had previously ask to speak with Sara.  (Since Laurel had already gotten caught on camera as Canary) So Felicity saying she is working with Canary, but not letting them speak together could have been potentially awkward/difficult.  So I can maaaaybe sorta forgive the fake phone call, as the middle of a city crisis is probably not the best time to potentially make him an emotional wreck by telling the truth.  (The shadowy personal appearance however was SOOOO far over the line.  Although at least there is currently no evidence that Felicity had anything to do with that.  What especially disappointed me about that scene is I had hoped with how emotional Laurel was during the phone call that maybe it would hit her how wrong this was and that she could not go on lying about this anymore...and then nope.  Ugh.)

 

4.)  Felicity told Ray he was missing an certain type of processor.  She probably already had said processor on hand at the arrowcave, and so did not actually need time to work on something for when she gave it to Ray.

[Actionmage]

And oh, she's sooo obnoxious her as she storms out, pulling the dead sibling card and I thought you of all people would understand.

 

Thank you! I felt my throat tighten at that tossed grenade of flouncy self-righteousness!

 

I mean, the writers are trolling the entirety of the TV fandom and the comics fandom, right? It felt like every. single. thing. that would piss a sizable number of  viewers off was made room for in this episode. The parts without Laurel I enjoyed more. I only truly hate that one aspect of Laurel that's been covered. What is the point of this season/exercise in testing boundaries? Seeing how far and fast you can alienate your audience?

 

I hope that next week can be more hopeful.

 

 

eta:

 

So I can maaaaybe sorta forgive the fake phone call, as the middle of a city crisis is probably not the best time to potentially make him an emotional wreck by telling the truth.

 

No, the best time was when Laurel was in the hospital, or when Quentin was in the hospital. That way a) he'd have the best doctors--and better, his personal doctor-- around to help in case Quentin really did have a bum ticker, and b) before the city was in Major Crisis Mode. It is squarely on the writers that this craptastic story even has to be defended, when it really shouldn't. We shouldn't have to fanwank the terrible stories.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Actionmage

[wonderwall]

Surprisingly, I agreed with a lot of what the Arrow Aftershow had to say. Well except for the Raylicity bit but still :p X

[BkWurm1]

The first time Diggle stayed behind was because they were hoping to send a message to the gangsters will the Red Arrow (Wasn't he supposed to be going by Arsenal now?) and Canary personas who already had reps.  The second time Diggle had to stay behind to keep the helicopter in the air.  Felicity does not know how to fly, and this was a rescue mission where they needed to prepared to make a quick getaway.  Some helicopters can take upwards of 5 minutes to be ready for takeoff.  So the pilot, Diggle could not leave the chopper to go inside.

 

Yeah, the second time that Dig wasn't actively fighting made sense.  Who else is going to fly the thing?  Nitpick.  They were there to save the last two Aldermen, but the copter only has room for four people as far as I could see.  I guess Laurel HAD to ride home on the ladder. 

 

Just now I almost wrote Canary instead of Laurel but NO, just NO!!!  I need a short, snarky, universally recognized, alternative asap. 

What especially disappointed me about that scene is I had hoped with how emotional Laurel was during the phone call that maybe it would hit her how wrong this was and that she could not go on lying about this anymore...and then nope.

 

Had same brief hope.  You are right about how emotional she was on the phone.  I'd noticed the first time around but it only occurred to me how out of character this would be for Sara.  Quentin should have been freaking out that Sara was whining and her voice constantly wobbling about saving the missing guys.  The techono thing that Felicty made would also have to filter out emotion, not just Laurel's voice.  Also noticed how utterly miserable Felicity looks while Laurel is talking, easiest to see when she's explaining to Dig what she'd done.  Regrets anyone? 

 

Felicity told Ray he was missing an certain type of processor.  She probably already had said processor on hand at the arrowcave, and so did not actually need time to work on something for when she gave it to Ray.

 

This works for me. 

[twoods]

The fight scenes, especially the flashback club scene, were pretty awesome. I just want Oliver to come back to Team Arrow because they are hurting right now.

I wasn't too excited about the Black Canary stuff but I'm glad that Laurel is realistically getting her ass kicked and walking around hurt. What I don't like is the Sarah lie. I do get why she put on the uniform (so people are scared of someone) but they need to show her training more.

I like Ray so will sit at my table for one. I am not looking forward to more Oliver man pain over this.

Roy continues to be awesome. Same with Maseo and his wife. They better not kill off Maseo, because it's obvious his son is dead which is why he joined the League and I liked him too. Damn this show and too much death.

[wonderwall]

What is one scene/storyline that fans reacted to negatively to, that really took you by surprise?

marcguggenheim answered:

Honestly, I’m a little surprised that people are so incensed about Laurel faking being Canary in front of Lance.  Underestimated that reaction for sure.

Is he being for real? This makes me want to pull my hair out!

 

In what world would anyone think that Laurel impersonating Sara be taken more positively?!

Edited January 29, 2015 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

Ha, I was just coming here to post that. Just....wow.

[thuganomics85]

 

In what world would anyone think that Laurel impersonating Sara be taken more positively?!

I guess he truly thought people would buy into Laurel's fear over Quentin's heart condition and pity her.

 

The thing is, I certainly can see where she is coming from.  Really, I do.  But this is just too much.  And, she has to know that they can only take this so far.  How long does she really think she can keep this charade up?  The longer is goes on, the more it will hurt when the truth comes crashing down.  But, nope.  She's double-downing on it now.  

 

Maybe they should have just preserved the body, and use her Weekend at Bernies-style, anytime Quentin wants to chat.  Because apparently they are all too scared to tell the truth.

 

ETA: Or maybe an android!  I'm sure Cisco and S.T.A.R. Labs could whip up a passable robotic Sara!

Edited January 29, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Orion]

Well at least that confirms for me that writers have no interest in receiving feedback on the show - reviewers and viewers have been pointing out how terrible that whole storyline is since episode TWO. Plenty of time that they could have changed that instead of doubling down. We are in episode 11 and the same issues keep getting brought up time and again. How is there no one in the writers room pointing out these problems. They have to pitch these ideas to the network. At no point has ANYONE said, "Stop"

Edited January 29, 2015 by Orion

[calliope1975]

From the few reblogs I've seen on Tumblr (I refuse to follow MG because my blood pressure cannot handle him,) it looks like he's getting fairly reamed for the boneheaded Lance decision. Rightfully so. I hope he gets castigated across all social media. It's not necessary, it's cruel, and it crosses the line from the verbal lies they've been engaging in all season. 

 

Quentin deserves better. Sara deserved better. 

[statsgirl]

Her main threat was that gang killing him.  The gang would only have been interested in killing him because of her false charges. 

 

I got the feeling that this guy's gang and the other gang were already fighting so it didn't need new charges, they would have taken care of him based on old scores.

 

Felicity told Ray that the problem was not in the chip but that he needed a quantum processor. How could he not have known that, if he's so smart?

 

 

I guess he truly thought people would buy into Laurel's fear over Quentin's heart condition and pity her.

On the ArrowAfterShow they're predicting that Oliver comes back ready to tell Felicity how he feels only to have her in Ray's arms.  The oldest, cheesiest, stupidest trope in the book.  That they're even thinking that says volumes.

 

It's become,e a serious problem how much this show underestimates the intelligence of its viewers these days.

[Xenith22]

I got the feeling that this guy's gang and the other gang were already fighting so it didn't need new charges, they would have taken care of him based on old scores.

He was not previously in an gang?  To quote Laurel "You did pretty well flying solo.  What made you decide to start working for Brick?"  His actual previous priors were all petty stuff B&E, drugs, etc.  They were also likely incarcerated before Brick put together his current gang.  So no I do not believe that gang (Los whatever) would have had any issue with him if they did not believe he popped their former leader? 

Edited January 29, 2015 by Xenith22

[BkWurm1]

All she had to do was threaten to let him go and Brick would have killed him, assuming that he'd talked. 

[Carrie Ann]

Hey, guess what, I hated this episode. But, a couple things I haven't seen mentioned here:

 

--Felicity is...not chewing exactly, but playing with a red pen against her lips at her desk in her first scene. Which is nice, because the second half of this episode makes me seriously wonder how they plan to sell her epic love for Oliver after he gets back. And when they plan to get around to letting her say and/or show that? Do they think one tear and a couple of scenes where she seems sad are enough for me to understand her feelings or frame of mind right now? Because I don't. And I've seen some people say that those two little Raylicity moments were not flirty, but in my opinion, they were. If Felicity were not OK with that vibe with him all of a week after Oliver died, she would have shown that. Moved away, dropped her smile when she realized what was happening. That's not what I saw. Ray explicitly stated his interest in her, and how he wants to be a vigilante not to protect the city, but to protect her. She smiled back, all soft and sparkly-eyed, and kept her face inches from his. And in the scene at the end, she's all up in his personal space, bending in closer to talk to him. That's...nope. 

 

--Malcolm seemed pleased with Thea's standing her ground at the end, and I have to believe that it's because that's ultimately what he wanted, right?

 

The Quentin thing is just...it's disgusting to me, and I'm furious at every member of Team Arrow for it. I've been saying since sometime in November that I felt worried they were sacrificing the characters we love and the things that work on the altar of Laurel and Ray, and yep, that's happening. Now I'm just sort of wondering how many more episodes it will take with Felicity acting out of character before I just accept that I don't understand or particularly like her anymore. And my anger at Team Arrow is just putting me more firmly on Oliver's side, which is ridiculous because no one's even in conflict with him yet. But when they are...! I just sort of feel like, even if he has to work with Malcolm or Ra's or Amanda or whomever, I'm going to take his side because I hate everything else that's happening here right now.

 

TELL THEA. TELL QUENTIN. Stop being such horrible friends, JFC.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Actionmage]

The gang would only have been interested in killing him because of her false charges.  Honestly this did not bother me at all?  I mean Oliver still continues to intimidate hoods into confessing by threatening death when he has no intention of carrying it out.  So is that not a lie? 

 

If we're going to be technical, then yeah, Oliver is lying. Laurel is lying, Felicity is lying, Diggle is lying, Maseo is lying- it's twenty fifteen and we're all lying! The difference is that Laurel is an officer of the court and held to a stricter code than Oliver in the lying department.

 

And look at any of the popular law enforcements shows ... It's classic TV cop schtick.

 

This is primarily about vigilantes, and Laurel is an Assistant District Attorney, not a cop. Laurel had a low level dude with a rap sheet and witnesses, as stated earlier. There was no need to threaten him with false charges. As another poster noted, he could get 'lost' in the system, if you want to bluff. Less 'potential murder', but a real threat. Even Deputy Chief  Brenda Leigh Johnson had to answer for leaving a man to be murdered.  By his own gang. In Los Angeles. Just because it's overused doesn't mean it's necessary.  In this case it wasn't.

 

The shadowy personal appearance however was SOOOO far over the line.

 

This? I agree with. Very, very much.

[foreverevolving]

Just now I almost wrote Canary instead of Laurel but NO, just NO!!!  I need a short, snarky, universally recognized, alternative asap. 

Already ahead of you my love, Fakanary new name is from here on out: "Lienary" as in: Lie+Canary

Yep.. That character has lost all redeeming potentional tonight, and it's not as if she was fairing well to begin with.

[kismet]

 I feel like they just wanna pull everyone's stories down.... Nobody gets a good day or a happy ending. It's all doom and gloom. It used to be just bad things happening the characters, but I guess that wasn't enough. Now that have to corrupt that characters and their interrelationships which was what I think made Arrow so special. Oliver is trying so desperately to atone for all of his & his fathers bad decisions, that he sacrifices his present relationships only to find himself yearning and craving for them because they help sustain him. As an audience member, we we struggle with some of the dark and gritty because it seemed like their might be hope somewhere along the pike. That all of this struggle would amount to something. There was humanity in how the characters would deal with the struggles and lean on each other for support. Now it almost feels like the characters are just gamepieces laid out on a board, moved around to move plot and advance the story to advance the brand. Before I feel like so many of the characters made you believe their story & their struggle. Made you like them against high odds (Moira for example, did HORRIBLE things, but yet was beloved & is still poorly missed). Interesting thought, I believe that Oliver has killed or seriously injured at least 1 person either in present day or flashbacks, yet does anyone not root for Oliver? Because SA makes you believe the multi-faceted layers of his character. He doesn't seem like a pawn or victim of some great puppetmaster. You would think 3 seasons in, they would try to deepen some of the relationships on the show. Instead its just one failed relationship moment after another. The show seems to have lost a lot of its heart at the sacrifice of plot. How does nobody in the writers room throw up the red flag and say what we're doing to Quentin is a little shady. We spent 2.5 seasons showing you how important his relationship with his daughters is, so we're gonna repay that  love & loyalty with a whole bunch of lies. Oh and then just to make sure he really believes us, we're gonna have his living daughter & colleagues emotionally manipulate him by using his dead daughters voice just to get some information about hostages, that he gladly would have given to the Arrow. Why didnt they just manipulate the phone call to be the Arrow asking? He could have said hey I'm out of town, but I'll put my "best" team on the job. There was not need to emotionally warp the situation by using his dead daughter as bait... Someone should have thought hey we might be crossing the line here... But that just shows me that the writers no longer prioritize the emotional threads of this show. The Laurel/Quentin was one of the best things LL had going for her character s1-2, it made her human & relatable. I loved their bond. But then the writers decided screw it, we need to make her dark. Let's screw up one of the best things in her life, but sell it as she's doing it out of love. Its emotionally bankrupt storytelling. I know emotional health is precarious in SC, but seriously no one thought there might be another way to advance the plot and get useless story facts across... Somebody needs to give the Arrow Writers a hug or something. The Quentin plotline, esp after tonight's development made me wish the Arrow was real so he could storm the writers room and say "You have failed this audience", I mean even the arrow probably finds it a little shady.

[catrox14]

Dear Arrow Showrunners,

 

You owe me that hour of my life back.

 

I just can't with Laurel as BC. It's just ...ugh. KC cannot give an interesting or believable line reading to save her life. JMHO.  Laurel does not get to order people around in the lair. She has not earned a godsdamn second of cache for that. And how dare you allow Dig of all people to acquiesce to her shit.  And please that stunt with Laurel and the helicopter?  Sara, YES she could have done that, she would have had the upper body strength but do not expect me to that Laurel could do that. NOPE. NOPE. Piss off with that crap.

 

Diggle continues to be the smartest guy in the room and I adore him, but I really need him to just lock Laurel out of the lair.

 

I didn't actually mind Crazy Eyes or Routh in this episode but I can't with Raylicity. Just no.

 

Colton Haynes was really good this episode. I quite liked Roy's face off with Malcolm. And I love the Malcolm and Thea stuff. The difference between Thea saying she can fight for what she believes in is that Willa can sell me on what Thea has done and the show framed it properly with Malcolm having trained Thea for months. 

 

Nice to see China White again.

 

I'm really enjoying  Oliver in the flashbacks. You can see more of the Oliver we met in s1 starting to peek out.  Really nice work from Stephen as usual. 

 

Rant warning....

Fuck you show for continuing to make Quentin look like a total fool. It's one thing for Laurel to continue with her stupid lie to Quentin but I totally reject that Felicity would have just been all "Hey Laurel, here's how we can fool your father and keep your shitty lie going". Nope. Nope. Nope.  What a gross, rude and disgusting thing to do with Quentin.  And how dare you denigrate Felicity's character by making her complicit in that kind of thing.  And are you trying to tell me that Quentin can't tell Sara's body type from Laurel's?  I am more angry about Quentin's storyline than Laurel's. NOT COOL SHOW. NOT COOL.

 

Please give me back the Arrow that I knew and loved.

Edited January 29, 2015 by catrox14

[Ariah]

I need to confess: watching Arrow has always been a sort of a ritual for me. I used to sit down with a cup of tea / coffee / hot chocolate and watch the whole episode in one go. Sometimes re-watch some bits.

 

This was the first episode I actually did something else while watching. An end of an era. Arrow has officially went from a must-watch tv to a background tv.

 

If the only interesting bits in the episode are flashbacks and talking scenes between one half-dead guy and and estranded married couple, then you know something went wrong...

 

Some other things:

- Laurel's stunt with helicopter ladder should have resulted in dislocated shoulder or two.

- Starling City has the dumbest mayor ever

- My heart broke for Quentine so many times I can't even find some pieces.

- the Douche DJ being a spy may actually turn out good - as long as Thea just kicks him off the balcony

- Roy talking to Malcolm was a nice scene, and Colton played it well (surprise!). He was trying to be tough, but felt a bit intimidated. I bet Malcolm would intimidate Ra's himself (especially this Ra's). That would be a very intimidated Ra's killing Merlyn in the end. A bit unsure of himself and his people Ra's. Because Malcolm just rolls like this.

- Laurel... you big crybaby. It's a cut! (Hope you had your tenatus shot). It's not like you had your gut pierced by a sword or soemthing. Or, I don't know, three arrows. Walk it off. (Just don't strut, it doesn't become you)

 

In Felicity's defense: the voice modulator that imitated Sara was, esentially, used to fool Quentin, but it was Laurel who took it to the next level with showing herself to her father. It's one thing to pretend to be someone in order to get info (which was stupid in its own right, because why would Quentin not talk about the pacemaker to Laurel?*), and another to play dress-up. Wasn't Laurel afraid her father would get a heart attack on seeing Sara?

 

I can't wait to have Oliver back, even though I know the show will screw this up by introducing complex and convoluted reasons for everyone to act like 12-year olds with emotional problems.

 

The dream scene - well done show: having an Olicity kiss and not having it at the same time. A true tumblr gif fodder.

 

 

 

* perhaps Quentin would not talk to Laurel about some things, because he suspects she would do stupid things. And he's trying to protect her from herself. Also, she may not be his favourite daughter and I cannot blame him.

[somewhereother]

okay, just caught up.

 

I loved Maseo, Tatsu and Oliver, I am quite invested in them now. Yay for Thea beginning to have some tiny amount of agency.

 

Wow in the video game version of arrow I would always choose to play the character of Laurel. Watching the episode, it is just like a ticker tape of unlocked achievements and skills.

 

*Laurel has gained the skill 'stiletto jab'

*Laurel has unlocked 'Felicity's trust'

*Laurel has reached level 2 in 'ball kneeing'

*Special achievement awarded 'Helicopter Hang'

*Laurel has earned 'Diggle's respect'

(feel free to add)

I have officially hit the bottom level of suspending my disbelief with Laurel. And this is coming from someone who has never been this bothered by any other character before (not Dawn or Riley in Buffy, not Duncan in Veronica Mars). She has broken me.

 

Meanwhile, I cannot believe those that encouraged Oliver and Sara to find their humanity are now complicit in lying to Quentin and encouraging Laurel and Ray. I mean in this episode alone Laurel deliberately misused her position (again) as an ADA to threaten a suspect. Oliver was a serial killer and I felt more engaged with his journey than this bureaucratic lying etc. Wouldn't she have been representing the accused in season 1? She is a pox upon the lair, and Diggle agreeing that she should go out instead of him because she lost Sara .... wtf kind of logic is that.

 

The wrongness of Laurel dressing up as her sister and actually pretending to be her is so awful that I can't help but think it is deliberately horrible and my stupid hopeful heart does believe that Sara could be coming back.

 

On a side note: I would have been all for a leather pantsuit for Laurel's costume. Would have made much more sense.

[Agent Dark]

I'm not against Laurel as Black Canary.  Don't get me wrong - I vastly preferred Sara and think that Caity Lotz brings alot more to the role simply in physicality than Cassidy, but that's understandable given Caity's martial arts background.  But unfortunately Sara is gone.  So I did like that they at least are showing that Laurel is kinda shit at being Black Canary.  It definitely shows in her fighting style (which is basically swing her baton at their face really hard while getting punched back lol).  Impersonating Sara to her Dad is a low blow though, but I have a feeling that it's going to come back and bite her in arse hard when Quentin finds out.  I was all excited to see Caity's name in the credits, but was pretty disappointed when it turns out that she wasn't even playing Sara.  They better have some goddamn flashbacks lined up of Sara and Nyssa in the League of Assassins.

 

The other thing that I am liking is the stuff with Maseo and Tatsu.  The Hong Kong flashbacks were dragging a bit in the beginning of the season, but now that Tatsu is fully involved they are picking up.  Looking forward to seeing how that will turn out

and if they are going with Tatsu becoming Katana as in the comics, then it is not going to end well for Maseo and their son... But I consider that an acceptable sacrifice if it means we get Katana kicking arse :)

Edited January 29, 2015 by Agent Dark

[looptab]

Wow. I approached this episode with an open mind, but damn, that was hard. I was willing to give it a shot and just laugh at Laurel, but then they managed to turn me against everyone. I really liked last week's episode, this one was pretty much the worst for me. Some things:

I agree with everyone on this: The Sara thing: just NO. (I gasped when I saw Caity Lotz in the credits, I actually thought she'd show up). 

I didn't think Felicity was flirting with Ray

Laurel+Felicity: it was nice. It made sense until they made that dumbass call to Quentin, he could have told Felicity.

Really liked Roy, bright spot in this hole.

Ray+Felicty+helicopter: Funny, more of that, please.

Maseo+Tatsu+Oliver: best part for me, both in present and flashback.

They did a very smart thing, no matter how I hate the consequences of it: Laurel was ready to give up, but changed her mind because of Felicity's pep talk. They know we won't blame Felicity.

What was the dream supposed to mean? I really didn't get what they were trying to do there..

 

ETA: Had  the kiss been spoiled somewhere? Or was just assumed because of the dream sequence? I ask just out of curiosity, because I didn't see that coming and here I saw some of you asking about it :)

Edited January 29, 2015 by looptab

[tv echo]

See... you don't have to watch the episode to watch the dream/nightmare scene:

 

Oliver Dreams About Felicity + KISS {3x11}
Published on Jan 28, 2015, by SMOAKING QUEEN

 

Detailed recap of episode:
http://bamsmackpow.com/2015/01/28/arrow-review-season-3-episode-11-midnight-city/?utm_source=FanSided&utm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=Around%20the%20Network

Edited January 29, 2015 by tv echo

[Menrva]

So…I haven't actually watched the episode yet and I'm pretty alarmed at what I've read so far. Should I bother even watching this episode? Should I watch and FF some parts (anything with Laurel in them…)?

 

After what I read about Felicity aiding Laurel in continuing the horrendous charade of Sara and hiding the truth of her death from Quentin, I felt a little like throwing up. So I'm thinking I should pass and hope things get better next episode? This whole season so far, with the exception of a few scenes here and there, has felt like one horrible Vertigo-induced nightmare. What have they done to this show? I genuinely feel bad for the actors - they deserve better than this. Well, except for Katie Cassidy. I can't help it - she has ruined a show I used to look forward to watching.

[jay741982]

I'm really afraid Oliver is gonna take that dream as his love for Felicity got him killed though he didn't seem that way the rest of the Episode

[Glory]

I think one thing to keep in mind in watching the Felicity/Ray scenes is that Felicity truly believes Oliver is dead. It sounds like maybe Laurel still thinks he's alive out there somewhere, but Felicity has fully realized her grief and that he's GONE. So I can see where Ray would be appealing to her. I can't fault her for tossing around the idea of Ray as a potential love interest. He's good looking, he's charming, he's SMART (that seems like something that'd be a big turn on for Felicity) and he has not been shy about showing his interest towards her. 

 

Contrast that with her last semi-relationship that had one kiss and a brooding Oliver dangling maybes and telling her he couldn't be what she needed and then going off to die after pronouncing his love to her and.... I can see where Ray might just be a better choice. 

 

I'm a HUGE Olicity shipper. But seeing her together with Ray does not bug me since Felicity thinks Oliver is D.E.A.D. Now, when Oliver does finally show his face in Starling again my opinion is obviously subject to change. But right now, I don't fault it. 

[looptab]

I'm really afraid Oliver is gonna take that dream as his love for Felicity got him killed though he didn't seem that way the rest of the Episode

Why would he take it that way? It was a dream. He didn't actually stay at home because of her. 

[apinknightmare]

I think one thing to keep in mind in watching the Felicity/Ray scenes is that Felicity truly believes Oliver is dead. It sounds like maybe Laurel still thinks he's alive out there somewhere, but Felicity has fully realized her grief and that he's GONE. So I can see where Ray would be appealing to her. I can't fault her for tossing around the idea of Ray as a potential love interest. He's good looking, he's charming, he's SMART (that seems like something that'd be a big turn on for Felicity) and he has not been shy about showing his interest towards her. 

 

Contrast that with her last semi-relationship that had one kiss and a brooding Oliver dangling maybes and telling her he couldn't be what she needed and then going off to die after pronouncing his love to her and.... I can see where Ray might just be a better choice. 

 

I'm a HUGE Olicity shipper. But seeing her together with Ray does not bug me since Felicity thinks Oliver is D.E.A.D. Now, when Oliver does finally show his face in Starling again my opinion is obviously subject to change. But right now, I don't fault it. 

 

See, my problem with it isn't that she would consider it (I'm putting my issues with Ray aside, because Felicity obviously doesn't share them), it's that Oliver's been dead for a week, and she's getting that close to this dude? I know this show moves at lightning pace, but it was too early for her to be looking at him the way she did, and honestly, way too early for him to be telling her he wants to put on that suit to protect her after he JUST told her that he felt bad about kissing her because he thought his fiancee would be the last person he kissed. So I'm the opposite - I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it if it happened while Oliver was alive and well in Starling, but after having just lost the man that I guess she loves, it was too much IMO. It's too soon for any of this. Even an ep or two of time before it happened would've been preferable. 

[jay741982]

Why would he take it that way? It was a dream. He didn't actually stay at home because of her.

You're right it just this show makes me wonder

[apinknightmare]

Why would he take it that way? It was a dream. He didn't actually stay at home because of her. 

 

If he takes that dream as anything, it's that his love for Felicity (and perhaps his humanity, I can't tell) make it difficult for him to make the decisions he needs to make in order to carry out his mission. Kind of like Maseo had to completely detach himself to become Sarab - notice how he kept his eyes open when he kissed Tatsu? Part of him is gone. I'm just not sure if this is going to make Oliver realize he doesn't want to be like that and he was going about things all wrong, or if it's going to make him realize he needs to be just like that to defeat Ra's.

Edited January 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

If he takes that dream as anything, it's that his love for Felicity (and perhaps his humanity, I can't tell) make it difficult for him to make the decisions he needs to make in order to carry out his mission. Kind of like Maseo had to completely detach himself to become Sarab - notice how he kept his eyes open when he kissed Tatsu? Part of him is gone. I'm just not sure if this is going to make Oliver realize he doesn't want to be like that and he was going about things all wrong, or if it's going to make him realize he needs to be just like that to defeat Ra's.

This I could get behind (not that I'd necessarily like it, but since it's Oliver, it could be). But surely that dream would not make him thing it was what he feels for Felicity that got him stabbed and off the cliff and magically resurrected ;)

 

Honestly, I'm starting to think maybe the dream was just for shit and giggles. Because a) I really, really didn't understand the significance of the bloody sword in his chest anyway, and b)I mean, Oliver doesn't make sense half of the time when he's awake, I would not count on his subconscious to be more logical :)

Maybe it's just his messed up mind trying to re-elaborate things after a traumatic experience and not being able to overcome it, not even in dreams. IDK

[jay741982]

If he takes that dream as anything, it's that his love for Felicity (and perhaps his humanity, I can't tell) make it difficult for him to make the decisions he needs to make in order to carry out his mission. Kind of like Maseo had to completely detach himself to become Sarab - notice how he kept his eyes open when he kissed Tatsu? Part of him is gone. I'm just not sure if this is going to make Oliver realize he doesn't want to be like that and he was going about things all wrong, or if it's going to make him realize he needs to be just like that to defeat Ra's.

Oh geez watch him use this for not getting into a relationship with Felicity next week and cue MAD AS HELL. With the "I don't want to be a woman you love if this is how you love me"

[doesntworkonwood]

Was it just me or was KC's stunt double the one that opened the doors to the van during her first fight?

 

Ermmm.... Positives: KC's stunt double did a really good job. 

 

Negatives: Pretty much everything else. 

 

I kid, I kid, I did enjoy the modern day Oliver parts, but to have that and the flashbacks made the episode a bit too jumpy IMO. 

 

Everything they're doing with Laurel is so OTT and ridiculous, I don't even know where to begin. And it all happened in one day. 

 

It felt like they were bashing me over the head with Quentin not knowing about Sara, and when that's been amongst the most criticised storylines this season you just have to wonder WTH they were thinking. 

 

And Laurels conversation with Diggle about Andy? *Shakes head* DIGGLE DIDN'T PRETEND TO BE HIS BROTHER LAUREL. 

 

I'm putting everything that Felicity is doing over these few episodes in a little box in my head called 'Plot contrivance and propping', so I can just ignore it once we get past these trying times. 

[apinknightmare]

Was it just me or was KC's stunt double the one that opened the doors to the van during her first fight?

 

I thought so too.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm putting everything that Felicity is doing over these few episodes in a little box in my head called 'Plot contrivance and propping', so I can just ignore it once we get past these trying times. 

 

I "bought" a few boxes after last week's episode so I can have one each for Oliver, Diggle and Felicity ;) 

Edited January 29, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[doesntworkonwood]

I "bought" a few boxes after last week's episode so I can have one each for Oliver, Diggle and Felicity ;) 

They're quite useful little things, I've found. Though I'm hoping I wont have to use them for long :P

[blixie]

 

So I'm the opposite - I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it if it happened while Oliver was alive and well in Starling, but after having just lost the man that I guess she loves, it was too much IMO. It's too soon for any of this. Even an ep or two of time before it happened would've been preferable.

 

Arrow's AWFUL pacing let me show you it. Did we have 10 episodes to show you Felicity and Ray actually getting close and flirty? Why used ten episodes when we could do it ONE! Laurel becoming an actually marginally skilled vigilante? Why show that over three seasons when we can do it in a quarter of a half of ONE! 

 

Assholes.

[Delphi]

I liked the red arrow comment because it made me think of season one when everyone was at dinner and Oliver told Malcolm that Green Arrow was a lame name.

Same with Felicity asking to borrow the helicopter, in such a casual way.

I actually didn't mind Ray in that scene but I really loved his exchange with Brick.

Brick: money can't fix this problem

Ray: -doubtful- I dunno...I have a lot of money.