seacliffsal January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 Well, I may be in the minority,but I still love Raylan. I can just feel his frustration with everything, and can appreciate that he's going to get things done whether he gets help with it or not. I should clarify that in real life I would have a completely different perspective....Wow, both Raylan and Boyd are so hot. And, I'm there with you Inquisitionist in that I had no idea that Boyd was going to kill Dewey. It totally shocked me when that happened as Boyd acted so sympathetic to Dewey about the old days. However, I do think the comments about 'just look at the flowers Dewey' are brilliant. I always kind of had a soft spot for Dewey even though there were times he totally bothered me-especially last year with his whole family in town and the storyline that would not die... It will be interesting to see what Ava does next. Her acting at the bridge was so good-just some subtle facial changes that showed how she remembered how she had 'fooled' her husband. I am so glad this show is back, but so sad that it's the last season. 8 Link to comment
soapfaninnc January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 I actually dont understand why Raylon is so hellbent on killing Boyd, I mean the scene with Art....wtf Raylon? How about you just arrest him and send him to jail? Personally I think Raylon's bloodlust for Boyd is a bit forced given their history and how many times they interact on a somewhat reasonable level. When Raylan really started going after Boyd was when Arlo professed to love Boyd. Arlo looked out for Boyd - to the point of shooting that State police officer because he had a gun pointed at Boyd. Plus Boyd represents Arlo to Raylan -same type of guy in his eyes. I rewatched all five seasons - (even five - the only bright spot being the last two episodes and the idiot Danny impaling himself on his own knife) - to refresh my memory on the Raylan/Boyd thing. My all time favorite scene so far is Boyd and Raylan headed to the airport for the showdown with Nicky Augustine. Raylan is snarling that Boyd can't stick with one thing for very long - being a skinhead, being a Jesus freak, now Ava - yet he still thinks of himself as a good guy. Boyd says the same thing back to Raylan, basically wondering how he gets himself to believe he (Raylan) is a good guy. That sort of summed up their relationship to me. That scene was off the charts. 6 Link to comment
ChipBach January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 When Raylan really started going after Boyd was when Arlo professed to love Boyd. Arlo looked out for Boyd - to the point of shooting that State police officer because he had a gun pointed at Boyd. Plus Boyd represents Arlo to Raylan -same type of guy in his eyes. Arlo actually thought he was shooting Raylan to protect Boyd. That's gotta stick in your craw... However, I agree. The character has been defined in earlier seasons as having a strict dislike for lawbreakers, murders, gun thugs, etc., and season 6 Raylan seems to be more of an "end justifies the means" guy. Plus they seem to be going out of their way to make him unlikable. He seems smarmy, arrogant, and a wise ass to everyone. 3 Link to comment
bluebonnet January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 I think Raylan has been a smarmy rogue since the start. The show kicked off with him telling some guy that he'll shoot him if he doesn't leave town in X amount of time. Sure, the guy was a criminal and was going to shoot Raylan, but still, Raylan wasn't even trying to following the rules. Raylan has always been just as much a criminal as all the criminals he chases. He smashes people's faces on steering wheels, smacks them with shovels without first telling them to stop running from a US Marshall, he tosses people in his trunk. These aren't just isolated incidents either. He's done all of these things over and over. He also happens to have a ridiculously high kill rate compared to his coworkers. Boyd and Raylan are common links in all the crime in eastern Kentucky. I'm guessing that Rachel, Tim and the DA are actually working together to not only bring down Boyd, but Raylan as well. Raylan is a criminal. A fun one to watch, but criminal nonetheless. 4 Link to comment
Ohwell January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 I still love Raylan; I just wouldn't want to be married to him. 7 Link to comment
magdalene January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 Boyd has to suspect Ava. Anybody smart would be because her sudden release from prison leads itself to suspicion. I just cannot see Raylan ever as any kind of devoted and care taking daddy. 2 Link to comment
picklesprite January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 I have a question for those of you who were devoted enough to watch last season and also patient enough to humor me. (I quit last season after 1 and a half eps and I was pissed at the show for "making" me do it.) I don't know what happened last season, but whatever it was. . .is it possible that Raylon is being such a kind of phony hardass partly because he wants to keep his job? Might he be going overboard to prove to Art, etc., that he's still on their side? Otherwise, this is a Shield kind of character arc, where the main character goes from a loveable rogue lawman to a truly despicable one. Not my fav character arc. So glad to *want* to keep watching this season. And, man, that last panning shot to Boyd's face was one of the scariest film shots I've ever seen. Link to comment
Princess Sparkle January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 (edited) Boyd staring at Ava while she slept was creepy as all hell. Boyd is definitely coming unwound and its a slow progression that started last season. I think the tension between him and Ava was powerful. He seems scared of this Ava - who had to survive on her own in prison, who doesn't need him. Boyd was much more in control of himself when he was sure of Ava and her love for him. That's gone. Ava is acting just like she did after she and Raylan split. She let Boyd in but kept him at arm's length and refused to have anything to do with his criminal crap. Of course Boyd was trying to play it straight then but I don't think how she's behaving right now is something Boyd would find out of character. Raylan being a dick to Ava would be easier to tolerate for me if he wasn't such an arrogant asshole. I missed something - but was it really Tim's idea to follow Dickey or was it Raylan's? The smug asshole never once can admit he's wrong or that someone else has a point. I agree Art's remarks are a warning but I don't think Raylan can hear it. Raylan using the social worker to get at the Crowe's was the reason Art got shot and he can't even be bothered to think about that? Don't get me wrong, he's still got potential and I still basically like Raylan, but he's sorta stagnant as a character right now. Not much growth. I did love him hitting that guy with the shovel. And the stuff in Mexico. Winona better get used to that night shift. To the bolded - it was Raylan's idea. He asked Tim, Tim said it was Raylan's call, and Raylan's chose to follow Dewey. It's hard to see because he's not in focus, but Tim totally gave him an eyeroll/"bitch please, that's a dumb joke" look after Raylan said "Good call Gutterson."I think Tim had more lines in this episode than he did over the entirety of season 5 (not that I'm complaining). Poor Dewey. I totally thought his hapless ass was going to make it all the way through the series. Goddammit Boyd. I also missed Jimmy - Boyd's new sidekick is not doing it for me. Edited January 21, 2015 by Princess Sparkle 1 Link to comment
benteen January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I had a hard time believing that charges had been dropped against Dewey to. He confused to a murder and pretty much set himself up for that one. On the subject for Raylan, although Ava deserves the tough treatment I think it will backfire on him.. I still like the Raylan character a lot but I'm not unmindful of the fact that he's often an asshole who has caused a number of the problems he faces, arrogantly waves his badge around to justify his behavior, is insubordinate, and hides behind his pain. When it comes to infuriating male leads, Raylan can give Oliver Queen a run for his money. 2 Link to comment
TigerLynx January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I don't know why anyone (Art, Rachel, Tim, etc.) would think it's a good idea to involve Raylan in taking down Boyd. Yes, Raylan knows how Harlan works, has contacts there, has a history with Boyd, but it's that very history which would be problematic when it comes to arresting Boyd and trying to put him in prison. Unless, they want Raylan to kill Boyd, and are just giving him the leeway to do it. That being said I love Raylan and Boyd together. I liked Walton Goggins as Shane, Venus, and Boyd. The man has mad Ninga acting skills. 1 Link to comment
MrsRafaelBarba January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 Garrett Dillahunt is awesome, wish Graham Yost had also got his wife for the Final season. Law and Order SVU alumni Michelle Hurd. Link to comment
bluebonnet January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I think it's possible they have Raylan involved in taking down Boyd because it offers them the chance to also build their case against Raylan. It's like they are giving Raylan the rope and Raylan will use it to hang himself. 2 Link to comment
soapfaninnc January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 To the bolded - it was Raylan's idea. He asked Tim, Tim said it was Raylan's call, and Raylan's chose to follow Dewey. It's hard to see because he's not in focus, but Tim totally gave him an eyeroll/"bitch please, that's a dumb joke" look after Raylan said "Good call Gutterson." I think Tim had more lines in this episode than he did over the entirety of season 5 (not that I'm complaining). Poor Dewey. I totally thought his hapless ass was going to make it all the way through the series. Goddammit Boyd. I also missed Jimmy - Boyd's new sidekick is not doing it for me. I miss Jimmy too. I don't like the new guys either. I'm even going to miss Johnny's weasley butt. Link to comment
TigerLynx January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 Being Boyd's sidekick is a dangerous occupation. They all end up dead. 3 Link to comment
panthergirl13 January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 Loved the whole thing, but my favorite was the Looney Tunes moment with the shovel. BOI-OI-OING! 5 Link to comment
Texasmom1970 January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 ....Wow, both Raylan and Boyd are so hot. And Tim, this show is full of hot! Not only are the actors amazing but so fun to look at also. 4 Link to comment
Blakeston January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 (edited) They wouldn't know. I think that's why they took multiple (four?) boxes, expecting only one of them to be their actual target. Even when they opened the last one, with the ledger, they were confused that it didn't seem to hold anything worth going after. The thing is, during the robbery, Boyd was looking around the room for a box with fingerprints, and then when he saw one, he said, "Got it!" It seemed like he was certain he'd found the right box, even though he'd only looked over about half of the room.. I imagine that more will be revealed about the scheme next week. Maybe we'll find out that they had some way of knowing that only one person was in the room with the safe deposit boxes after Boyd sprayed it. But if we don't get an explanation along those lines, I'll consider it a very poorly thought-out plan. I think Raylan has been a smarmy rogue since the start. The show kicked off with him telling some guy that he'll shoot him if he doesn't leave town in X amount of time. Sure, the guy was a criminal and was going to shoot Raylan, but still, Raylan wasn't even trying to following the rules. Raylan has always been just as much a criminal as all the criminals he chases. He smashes people's faces on steering wheels, smacks them with shovels without first telling them to stop running from a US Marshall, he tosses people in his trunk. These aren't just isolated incidents either. He's done all of these things over and over. He also happens to have a ridiculously high kill rate compared to his coworkers. Boyd and Raylan are common links in all the crime in eastern Kentucky. I'm guessing that Rachel, Tim and the DA are actually working together to not only bring down Boyd, but Raylan as well. Raylan is a criminal. A fun one to watch, but criminal nonetheless. There's no question that throughout the series, Raylan has been an unprofessional jerk who thinks he's above the law. But as time has gone on, I also think the writers have been showing us that he's been getting worse. He's been on a downward spiral, and now he's sloppier and more vindictive than he used to be. Season 1 Raylan wouldn't have been so callous to someone in Ava's position. I don't think he would have shot Dewey's pool purely out of spite, either. Edited January 22, 2015 by Blakeston 2 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo January 22, 2015 Author Share January 22, 2015 (edited) RIP, Dewey. He was an idiot, which is what made him so dangerous, but he was so amusing to watch. He reminded me of a little kid at the end, so wistful yet optimistic that things could be the same as before. Edited January 22, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo 2 Link to comment
Yemayah January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 (edited) I believe that Boyd is smart enough to have a strong suspicion that Ava is under pressure from some deal that got her released from prison from the time her lawyer phoned from the jail to announce her release. The lawyer may have even clued him in. If Boyd did not know have suspicions then, he has them now, even if that thought only just developed (not likely) when he asked Dewey Crowe how he got from prison back to Harlan. What is in question is how strong still is his love for Ava and whether, given all he has invested in realizing his vision of their life together, he can live without her. Whether any of it matters without her. Whether he believes all will be alright if he can get them both out of the country and out of reach of the law. Whether or not he believes she still loves him enough. Truth be told, Raylan has become Ahab to Boyd's the White Whale. The endgame he has for Boyd in his mind is justified by any means necessary. The paradox, which he can't see, is that all that Raylan has done in his quest to capture Boyd are the very things that could set Boyd free and leave Raylan the only one in jail. His affair with Ava could undo any attempt on his part to return her to jail. It was Vasquez who negotiated the agreement terms for her release. Raylan is merciless toward her, bullying and cruelly so, but he has very little with which to return her to prison. Their past relationship could take the air out of that threat, and Vasquez can be called to the bar for having certain photos (and we don't know who took those photos). After the witness against Ava recanted, there was no longer any legal reason for her continued incarceration on that more serious charge, and she was going to be released on bail for the original charge, which most likely would be thrown out (and Ellen May, who was caught on a camera robbing a bank, was never a credible witness). Raylan planted the seed that Boyd sold her out to save his own skin. She may yet come to know that Raylan lied. Still, she is in a very difficult spot Everyone Raylan has sent to prison has been released because of him, particularly Dewey. That lawsuit will rear its ugly head even with Dewey gone. Boyd's ace against Raylan is that he can tie Raylan, at most, to the conspiracy to have Nicky Augustine offed (contract murder, a capital crime); at the least, to being on the tarmac and not preventing it (he would do time if convicted). True, Boyd killed the best corroborating witness (Picker), who killed the main witness, but there were gunmen there. The totality of Raylan's spiraling down behavior in Harlan will persuade any judge that any testimony Raylan has to offer is tainted. Art gave him a strong warning. Prison is a living, soul-deadening death. Edited January 22, 2015 by Yemayah 9 Link to comment
catrox14 January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 So bummed about Dewey. That was just a really sad ending for him. Link to comment
Blakeston January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 Raylan is merciless toward her, bullying and cruelly so, but he has very little with which to return her to prison. Their past relationship could take the air out of that threat, and Vasquez can be called to the bar for having certain photos (and we don't know who took those photos). After the witness against Ava recanted, there was no longer any legal reason for her continued incarceration on that more serious charge, and she was going to be released on bail for the original charge, which most likely would be thrown out (and Ellen May, who was caught on a camera robbing a bank, was never a credible witness). Two questions: 1. Regarding Vasquez, what are the photos you're referring to? 2. Did the guard ever recant his claim that Ava attacked him? I recall that he skipped town after making the accusation. And then Boyd tracked him down, and was about to beat him into oblivion, only to let him go because he identified with him. But I don't recall any mention of the guard after that. Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo January 22, 2015 Author Share January 22, 2015 One of my favorite things about Boyd is that he is smart. When he said that Harlan is changing and he wanted to get out, part of me really hoped that he would (the same way that I hoped Fausto would go to Norway on The Bridge). I still love Raylan in theory, but his obsession with Boyd will be his undoing. He needs to listen to Art and reel it back in. 4 Link to comment
attica January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 (edited) I did love him hitting that guy with the shovel. That sound cue, the great big giant CLANG! is still making me laugh. High-larious. Sniper Marshal Tim looks hot as ever, imo. And I love Awesome Marshal Rachel being all Boss behind the big desk, Poor stupid Dewey Crowe. Tara's recap has the wee Givens as Willow, but I thought it was Willa. Do we know for sure? Edited January 22, 2015 by attica Link to comment
molshoop January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I think Raylan and Boyd share the same type of frustration and holes in their egos. If Raylan is so smart, why can't he catch Boyd. And if Boyd is so smart,why isn't he rich. They've both been about as successful as Dewey in achieving their main objectives. 7 Link to comment
Inquisitionist January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 This review also calls the baby Willow: Will he follow in his dad's footsteps and be absent in his child's life, or will he do the right thing and help Winona change Willow's diapers? I haven't had a chance to rewatch the episode yet: lots of things to watch out for when I do! 1 Link to comment
RedHackle January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I'm so sad that this show seems to be going out on a sour note (or heading that way, anyhow - they do have time to right the ship.) But I'm really sad that it's going to go away without us having ever got Ian McShane as a guest. Sam Elliot and Garret Dillahunt are pretty strong substitutes but I'd still like to see Al. And maybe fuckin' Woo, too. I will love Timmy Olyphant till I die, but I think they created marvelous characters in Tim and Rachel and then kind of wasted them for 6 seasons. Can we at least get more of them this season? Here's what I saw of Raylan in the first season that I liked so much; his very apparent pain the first time he'd heard that Boyd killed someone; the sweetness and concern he exhibited for Rollie, and the poor schlub of a boyfriend (played by Brett Cullen in "the Collection"), even Gary at times. The camaraderie he first had with Boyd and Johnny Crowder. And remember when Art told Raylan he had to stop seeing Ava, and Raylan stopped seeing Ava, just like that? Once upon a time, he did sorta seem to occasionally follow rules. Remember, too, the story he told about the unacceptable rudeness displayed by gun thugs hired by the Mining Company to come rough up his family? You got the impression from that story that Raylan might sometimes bend the rules but he'd never be deliberately rude. In Raylan's first meeting with Dewey he called him Mister Crowe, and he wasn't being facetious, he was being polite. That's the character I fell in love with. I can't say I love what he's become. 4 Link to comment
Linderhill January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 According to Graham Yost, the baby is named "Willa". Unless something has changed since his last posting, I'm guessing that it still is and that the reviewers misheard. I to am fully on the Raylan Train no matter what he does. I have no sympathy for Ava because she pretty much deserves everything that has happened to her. The guard did recant his charge against her but everything else that was keeping her in jail, the body being moved, etc., all of the witnesses are dead. And she did murder her husband in cold blood and proceed to mack on Raylan when he showed up at her house. He told her to get out of town, get away from Harlan, but she wouldn't despite the fact that the Crowders were after her and the fact that at the very beginning of the series she said she wanted to get out. I also didn't buy into her getting so pissed at Raylan when he slept with Winona ("you cheated on me with your ex-wife!") when he'd already told her to get out of town, etc. Ava let herself get drawn in to Boyd's operation, killed again, ran the whore house and threatened and smacked poor dumb Ellen Mae. So no, I don't care that Raylan is rude to her. Raylan always has a reason for everything he does. Yes, he shot Jimmy Bucks, the gun thug in the first episode but that was after witnessing the man horribly torture and murder a farmer ( I believe) down south of the border. I'm blanking on where it was exactly, he told the story back in the first season. ON the whole, he tries to let the criminals overall stupidity be their downfall. I think that is one of the problems with Boyd, he's a criminal and there have been some failures but the man is too wily to completely fall. and finally, Dewey, we're going to miss you and your four kidneys and especially your unique vocabulary. 4 Link to comment
Inquisitionist January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 According to Graham Yost, the baby is named "Willa". Thank goodness. "Willow" seems far too twee for eastern Kentucky. 1 Link to comment
cassandle January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I think Tim had more lines in this episode than he did over the entirety of season 5 (not that I'm complaining). Yeah, that sounds about right. If they hadn't said before the season started that Tim and Rachel would have more to do I might not have bothered watching. As it is I'm afraid Tim's used up all his lines and we won't see him again. I think Season 4 is my favorite just because Tim had so much to do and I remember being happy at the start of last season when he and Boyd were playing scrabble together. But then he vanished and Rachel vanished and it was nothing but idiot Crowes all over the place. So I'm very leery of what they're going to do with his (and Rachel's) character this year. 1 Link to comment
AuntiePam January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Thank goodness. "Willow" seems far too twee for eastern Kentucky. I don't know about eastern Kentucky, but it's definitely too twee for Winona. I've figured out the bank heist -- to my satisfaction anyway: Katherine knew what day the box's owner would be at the bank. Link to comment
Latverian Diplomat January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Well, I may be in the minority,but I still love Raylan. I can just feel his frustration with everything, and can appreciate that he's going to get things done whether he gets help with it or not. I should clarify that in real life I would have a completely different perspective....Wow, both Raylan and Boyd are so hot. I felt bad when I caught myself laughing at Raylan gratuitously break Dewey's jaw. They do a good job at making Raylan the lovable rogue who gets things done his own way, and I definitely fall for it, but his physical abuse of suspects and contempt from things like the restraining order are objectively appalling. Link to comment
AlliMo January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Sometimes I think Raylan is being too much of a dick, and then I remember that almost everyone he's dealt with on the criminal side is a murderer, or has been party to murder. As human and relatable as they may make the characters, they're still stone cold killers. 4 Link to comment
soapfaninnc January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) Two questions: 1. Regarding Vasquez, what are the photos you're referring to? 2. Did the guard ever recant his claim that Ava attacked him? I recall that he skipped town after making the accusation. And then Boyd tracked him down, and was about to beat him into oblivion, only to let him go because he identified with him. But I don't recall any mention of the guard after that. I don't know about the photos. But the guard recanting would have changed everything, really. The deputy that was with the crooked coroner that 'caught' Ava disposing of the body? They are dead. And probably implicated in criminal activity themselves. The original case would never have held up. Ava shot whats his name scumbag when he was chasing Ellen Mae. He'd beaten her up, forced her to rob a bank and bury one of the girls she robbed a bank with that had gotten shot in the attempt. Ellen Mae would have been destroyed on the stand from a credibility standpoint. She used to be addicted to oxy - she shot a john - she robbed a bank.... They still don't know Ava killed that woman in prison. That was why the whole damn season of Ava being in jail seemed pointless and stupid to me. Raylan crossed the line when he set up the execution of Nicky Augustine. Yes, I understand it. The man went after his wife and child. But it was just as cold blooded and premeditated as Ava blowing her first husband away at the dinner table. The one that beat her constantly. (Season 5 at least answered Boyd's question from season 1 - 'Damn woman, you only shoot people when they sit down to eat?' ) The best part about this show is that everyone thinks they are the good guy but in the end they are all shades of gray. They've all got lines they'll cross if you threaten what they feel is important. The thing about Raylan that pisses me off the most right now is the way he is with Art. He's gotten Art into a work jackpot twice now (Winnona stealing and replacing the money from the evidence room and Nicky Augustine) and now gotten him shot. And will he even give him the courtesy of listening to him? No. Edited January 23, 2015 by soapfaninnc 4 Link to comment
Blakeston January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 But the guard recanting would have changed everything, really. The deputy that was with the crooked coroner that 'caught' Ava disposing of the body? They are dead. And probably implicated in criminal activity themselves. The original case would never have held up. But my question is, did the guard actually recant? He left town, Boyd tracked him down, tied him up, and then just let him go. Link to comment
soapfaninnc January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) But my question is, did the guard actually recant? He left town, Boyd tracked him down, tied him up, and then just let him go. It was never explained but I'm fairly sure the Marshall Office and Vasquez could have found him and I think there was a throwaway line about the girl in the cell with Ava who'd originally corroborated the guard's story recanting also. So even if he didn't recant - he disappeared - the girl's testimony to support the complaint is gone. No complaining witness - no case. The girl could have told them the guard arranged the whole thing. Edited January 23, 2015 by soapfaninnc 1 Link to comment
cassandle January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 The thing about Raylan that pisses me off the most right now is the way he is with Art. He's gotten Art into a work jackpot twice now (Winnona stealing and replacing the money from the evidence room and Nicky Augustine) and now gotten him shot. And will he even give him the courtesy of listening to him? No. This bothers me too but I can't help blame Art some for it. He's given Raylan a lot of leeway over the years and let Raylan walk all over him. Art should have fired him multiple times. Granted, there'd be no show so I understand why it didn't happen but I'm hoping Rachel won't let Raylan get away with the same bullshit. But my question is, did the guard actually recant? He left town, Boyd tracked him down, tied him up, and then just let him go. I could totally be misremembering because Ava's plot bored me so much but I thought Boyd let him go because Ava broke up with him and he didn't see any point in trying to help her anymore. 2 Link to comment
Febgirl January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I wonder how Boyd's new crew will stack up? I miss Jimmy. I did think that Carl had some good moments in Season 5. The newbies, Earl and The Pig ( I think?) have big shoes to fill... Link to comment
Curious5 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I would guess that on the Ave story line, if the cell mate recanted her story, the next move by the prison is to interview the guard. That guard probably would have been so traumatized by Boyd he would have confessed to the truth. BUT - if that were true, what would Raylan have on Ava to threaten to send her back to jail? Link to comment
Princess Sparkle January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 At the end of last season (and it's fresh in my mind because I watched it right before the new episode), Ava's lawyer said that her former cell mate backed Ava's story and that the guard recanted. Boyd did let him go, but the guard still recanted after that. 1 Link to comment
Inquisitionist January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Ava's lawyer said that her former cell mate backed Ava's story and that the guard recanted. Boyd did let him go, but the guard still recanted after that. I had inferred that all of this was fabricated as a pretext to release Ava to serve as an informant. And if she doesn't inform, the pretext falls away and she goes back to prison. Or is that too fast-and-loose with the legal system even for Justified? 1 Link to comment
Yemayah January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) I went back to the scene in the season 5 finale, Restitution. Over the phone, Ava's attorney explains to Boyd (who is clearly stunned by the news that Ava is being released) that Ava is being released because "her cellmate back at the Harlem Detention Center changed her story...because she...wanted to come clean and..the guard involved..(Boyd interrupts and names the guard, "Albert Fekkis?")...recanted his statement". Note that the attorney didn't say who the guard was; it was Boyd who said it was Albert. I find that interesting, because the attorney, by not identifying a specific guard, does not even confirm that the statement is even true. By that, I mean he may well be feeding a story to Boyd that could very well be fiction, part of the cover story concocted by the AUSA for and the attorney or Ava to feed to Boyd. Edited to add: the attorney is being paid for by Boyd and not Ava, and the attorney has more to fear from Boyd. While the charges against Ava are still VERY weak to hold up in court under any standards of evidence (particularly if Albert is still missing), if Ava believes that the charges have not gone away, then that explains why she is still scared of what Raylan could do. That is the power Raylan and AUSA Vasquez can pretend to still have. If what Ava's attorney said is the truth, then Ava could sue the shite out of the corrections department. The real truth is that even if charges were to be totally dropped and without any conditions, Ava would still fear for her life during the time it takes just to be processed out. Given the speed of her release, I'm skeptical that the changing story/recanting are true. Which brings us to the photographs. Recall the episode from season 1, Blowback, where Raylan diffused the hostage situation in the Marshal's office, which put his interview with the AUSA on hold. Raylan insists that he wants to go ahead with that interview and the first thing Vasquez does is produce photographs of Ava and Raylan in bed together. How Vasquez came to have those photos and who took them remain a mystery. It was these photos that got Boyd released from prison. I don't recall if Ava is aware of the photos. But whoever took the photos knows! Also remember, if Boyd did not get rid of the phone Raylan returned to him, the phone is wiretapped/tracked by order of Judge Reardon. Edited January 23, 2015 by Yemayah 1 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo January 24, 2015 Author Share January 24, 2015 I wonder how Boyd's new crew will stack up? I miss Jimmy. I did think that Carl had some good moments in Season 5. The newbies, Earl and The Pig ( I think?) have big shoes to fill...You know, Mr. EB and I were recently lamenting the lack of competent sidekicks. In order to be a successful boss, you need a number one who is smart, loyal, and lethal. Scarface on Person of Interest is the only recent one that comes to mind (RIP Scarface!). Too many people have incompetent crews. I think Boyd's new guys are too short sighted. They were so focused on the fact that there was no money in the safety deposit boxes that they didn't care about the paperwork they had been asked to steal. Boyd's downfall will probably be due in large part to his crew either because they betray him or because they're idiots. 1 Link to comment
soapfaninnc January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 I went back to the scene in the season 5 finale, Restitution. Over the phone, Ava's attorney explains to Boyd (who is clearly stunned by the news that Ava is being released) that Ava is being released because "her cellmate back at the Harlem Detention Center changed her story...because she...wanted to come clean and..the guard involved..(Boyd interrupts and names the guard, "Albert Fekkis?")...recanted his statement". Note that the attorney didn't say who the guard was; it was Boyd who said it was Albert. I find that interesting, because the attorney, by not identifying a specific guard, does not even confirm that the statement is even true. By that, I mean he may well be feeding a story to Boyd that could very well be fiction, part of the cover story concocted by the AUSA for and the attorney or Ava to feed to Boyd. Edited to add: the attorney is being paid for by Boyd and not Ava, and the attorney has more to fear from Boyd. While the charges against Ava are still VERY weak to hold up in court under any standards of evidence (particularly if Albert is still missing), if Ava believes that the charges have not gone away, then that explains why she is still scared of what Raylan could do. That is the power Raylan and AUSA Vasquez can pretend to still have. If what Ava's attorney said is the truth, then Ava could sue the shite out of the corrections department. The real truth is that even if charges were to be totally dropped and without any conditions, Ava would still fear for her life during the time it takes just to be processed out. Given the speed of her release, I'm skeptical that the changing story/recanting are true. Which brings us to the photographs. Recall the episode from season 1, Blowback, where Raylan diffused the hostage situation in the Marshal's office, which put his interview with the AUSA on hold. Raylan insists that he wants to go ahead with that interview and the first thing Vasquez does is produce photographs of Ava and Raylan in bed together. How Vasquez came to have those photos and who took them remain a mystery. It was these photos that got Boyd released from prison. I don't recall if Ava is aware of the photos. But whoever took the photos knows! Also remember, if Boyd did not get rid of the phone Raylan returned to him, the phone is wiretapped/tracked by order of Judge Reardon. Thank you! I'd totally forgotten about the photographs! I like the way you explained it all. That makes sense. I'd also forgotten about the phone Raylan gave back to Boyd. Link to comment
tv-talk January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 I could totally be misremembering because Ava's plot bored me so much but I thought Boyd let him go because Ava broke up with him and he didn't see any point in trying to help her anymore. When the guard broke down and said "I love her", Boyd realized the guy was a stalker-ish, weirdo, pathetic type and had mercy on him. What I took from that scene was the guard did it on his own so that Ava would stay in prison (he must have had the cell mate in on it somehow I guess). Boyd let him go because he wasnt working for someone trying to screw Boyd/Ava over, he was just a creepy prison guard who'd fallen for Ava's hotness. Maybe I missed something though. Link to comment
tv-talk January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 Raylan is snarling that Boyd can't stick with one thing for very long - being a skinhead, being a Jesus freak, now Ava - yet he still thinks of himself as a good guy. Boyd says the same thing back to Raylan, basically wondering how he gets himself to believe he (Raylan) is a good guy. That sort of summed up their relationship to me. That scene was off the charts. Yeah right on, that is probably my favorite scene from the entire series. It's also why at the end of the day I'd rather see both Raylon and Boyd killed or jailed than just Boyd. It's very easy to see Raylon as no better than Boyd which is obviously the intent of the show. I'll be very disappointed if the show ends with Raylon killing Boyd and then moving to Florida to live happily ever after with Wynona and his daughter whom he couldnt care less about in the present. Thankfully I'd be shocked if the show went that route and am fully expecting something worse to happen i.e. better. Link to comment
Ohwell January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 I don't think Raylan will ever make it to Florida to live with Winona and his daughter, he'll stay where he is and just visit (assuming he lives). I just don't think he really wants to go there. 2 Link to comment
tv-talk January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 The deputy that was with the crooked coroner that 'caught' Ava disposing of the body? They are dead. And probably implicated in criminal activity themselves.The original case would never have held up. The problem for her was that there was another cop present when she was caught dumping the body. She was busted red handed. Reading this thread now has me thinking that Boyd is going to know Ava is a rat specifically because he interacted with the guard and will be able to find him and discover he never recanted anything. Link to comment
RustbeltWriter January 26, 2015 Share January 26, 2015 Going back to season one, I don't think anyone in the Marshal's office understands that Raylan simply does not want to be in Harlan any longer. He didn't want to be there in the first place and after the last few years he's had a bellyful of guys like Boyd trying to be drug kingpins and nitwits like Dewey Crowe playing along as henchmen. In his conversation with Art it was clear that he knows Boyd is a danger to the public and he'd like nothing more than a reason to remove him personally. He's had enough of dancing around, being the hometown boy made good and seeing the evil that men like Boyd get up to. I think Raylan just wants to gun him down and move on with life. 1 Link to comment
gryphon January 27, 2015 Share January 27, 2015 (edited) I hope the series ends satisfyingly. More Tim, please. I could listen to him talk for days. I didn't expect Dewey to get shot but I wasn't surprised. I think Boyd suspects Ava...if he does, I hope we find out why. Once Boyd started talking about leaving Harlan for someplace with white sand and blue water....hmmmm, what? Edited January 27, 2015 by gryphon Link to comment
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