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Pet Peeves: Aka Things That Make You Go "Gah!"


Message added by Mod-Tigerkatze,

Your Pet Peeves are your Pet Peeves and you're welcome to express them here. However, that does not mean that you can use this topic to go after your fellow posters; being annoyed by something they say or do is not a Pet Peeve.

If there's something you need clarification on, please remember: it's always best to address a fellow poster directly; don't talk about what they said, talk to them. Politely, of course! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be treated with respect. (If need be, check out the how to have healthy debates guidelines for more).

While we're happy to grant the leniency that was requested about allowing discussions to go beyond Pet Peeves, please keep in mind that this is still the Pet Peeves topic. Non-pet peeves discussions should be kept brief, be related to a pet peeve and if a fellow poster suggests the discussion may be taken to Chit Chat or otherwise tries to course-correct the topic, we ask that you don't dismiss them. They may have a point.

Message added by Mod-Tigerkatze,
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Oh dear.  Then I believe I fall into the group of those that say "okie dokie" and adds "sauce" to awesome. (putting on flak jacket and helmet).

 

I'm not condemning those who use the terms - it is a personal irritation for me, but I know it is not some matter of significance like global warming or the Mayo vs Miracle Whip Debate.

 

I was talking with my daughter this weekend and we were kidding about when we would see Awesomesauce as the actual name of a condiment.  I specualted it would be a srirachi mayonnaise.  Looking through the Sunday coupons I saw one for this:

71Iv81tHHnL._SY679_.jpg

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I have an issue with the use of "phenomenal" as an adjective which means, "pretty good". I had a co-worker who used "AWESOME" to describe almost everything he liked - and he said it with such enthusiasm it drove me crazy. I mean really, a sandwich would have to go a long way to be "awesome", as would the new fax machine, or coffee maker. I kid you not, everything was AWESOME. many times, it meant "this works the way it's supposed to" or "This sandwich is tasty."

I had a professor who once said that the word awesome was once used to describe the wonders of nature. Now it's used to describe a cheeseburger.

I have an issue with "old school." It's used indiscriminately for everything these days, from music to food. On "Kelsey's Essentials, " Kelsey promised to give a new spin on old school desserts. I promptly changed the channel.

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Another Pet Peeve of mine: When people say "between" when they *really* should be saying "among" instead. (I know everyone does it, but...)

When I was in school, I distinctly still remember my English teachers (at least the ones in the grades when you were still learning the language, how to write it, how to spell it, how to punctuate it, etc.; not so much the ones when you still had to take English, but the teachers assumed you had enough of a functionality in it & about all you did in class was write essay papers) saying you use "between" when you're talking about situations involving *only* two people (It's just between you & me); you use "among" when you're talking about situations involving *three or more* people (Let's keep this among you, me, Steve, & Danny).

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I have an issue with "old school." It's used indiscriminately for everything these days, from music to food. On "Kelsey's Essentials, " Kelsey promised to give a new spin on old school desserts. I promptly changed the channel.

I think "old school" is my generation's version of "the good ol' days."  Music was better in the '80s, land lines are better for long phone conversations, holding a book is more satisfying than holding a kindle reader, and I prefer doing Internet searches on a computer rather than my phone.

 

--I have no idea what old school dessert is, however.

 

Today's pet peeve: a hovering boss. Today after our staff meeting, my boss followed me into my office and sat in a chair. He isn't here every day, and he wanted to chat about how things are going at this office (I work at a medical clinic). It was a nice gesture, and I'm glad he took the time to check in. He even complimented the work I do here. But the whole exchange made me very uncomfortable--I felt like he was invading my personal space. Which he wasn't, of course because it's his friggin office, and he can go where he wants. Was I expecting criticism, or to be fired? I don't know.

 

This is my issue, I know. But bosses hanging around, asking, "how are things going?" is a pet peeve of mine.

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I think "old school" is my generation's version of "the good ol' days."  Music was better in the '80s, land lines are better for long phone conversations, holding a book is more satisfying than holding a kindle reader, and I prefer doing Internet searches on a computer rather than my phone.

 

--I have no idea what old school dessert is, however.

I've just about given up trying to find a decent radio station in my area that plays music I enjoy (and I refuse to pay for Sirius).  There's a station down in Fredericksburg, VA that fades in and out but plays hits from the 70's and 80's, a really good selection. Unfortunately, a downhome country station from Frederick, MD keeps bursting in with someone practically yodeling ****kicker music so now I'm ordering used CD's from amazon and I play them as I try to survive driving in this crazy section of the east coast.  I think of these two stations as the Dueling Freddies. Paying for radio is a major pet peeve of mine these days.

 

Old School Dessert?  Could that be jello cubes with whipped cream on top?

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(edited)
I hate when people ask, "What's new?".  Nine times out of ten the answer is....nothing.  Unless they really, really want to hear about the failed chicken recipe I made this weekend.

 

I always respond "c over lambda" to that question, because that's the formula which relates nu (the frequency of light) to lambda (the wavelength of light). And I don't explain it to them either, unless they ask nicely.

 

 

Old School Dessert?  Could that be jello cubes with whipped cream on top?

 

They certainly served that often enough in my old school...

Edited by Sandman87
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I am 40, and have never eaten gelatin with fruit in it. I remember seeing it at school--perfect cubes with fruit suspended inside. I was both fascinated and repulsed by it--fascinated because I didn't know how the fruit was suspended (I still don't really know) and repulsed because it looked alien and inedible. The only time I ever got gelatin as a kid was when I was sick, and I don't know why, because I'm fairly sure it was only about a quarter a box back then. We had chocolate pudding! My mother probably had some weird reason for not buying gelatin, like it reminded her of the time she was bucked off a horse that had gone "wrong in the head", so he was sent off to the gelatin factory, or something.

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My mother, bless her soul, used to make a Jell-O thing with lime jello, cabbage and mayo -- but in our house it was Miracle Whip which made it doubly gross.  It looked kind of like this:  1d8d176984b2420e980158236dbf57a2.jpg

 

I found out early on where gelatin came from (the rendering of horses and other animals) and flat out refused to eat it, for which I am now, still and eternally grateful.  

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Old school dessert for me is we generally had dessert almost every day at supper.  It might have been as simple as store bought sandwich cookies, but always something sweet at the end. Tapioca pudding or even stewed prunes which I love.  It was portion control you had one serving.  My aunt who was a farm wife made a pie every day. 

 

People were not as overweight back then(the 70's).  We just didn't eat as much packaged foods and of course fast food was a treat and not a necessity.  Also pop(soda) was a treat and no refills.  You would get your pepsi in a glass with mostly ice and that was all.  Now even fast food places give free refills. Who new back then they were doing us a favor. 

 

I do remember cool whip and crisco and margarine.  We had a milk man and when I was very little we drank whole milk.  Some things are better today.

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(edited)

My latest pet peeve is personal. I hate it when store employees follow me around suspiciously. They will totally ignore the tweaking meth head in the heavy coat in August to follow my LL Bean wearing and Coach bag carrying ass around. I've never stolen anything in my life, not even as a little kid. I'm one of the most honest people on earth which is why it infuriates me. Ok, I stole some music off YouTube. I guess that gives me that dangerous aura.

Anyway, this happens ALL the time. I expect it when I walk into any store. And it pisses me off. And the older I get the closer I come to saying something. I'm wide open to suggestions on what to say. Anyone?

Edited by bubbls
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(edited)

Wow.  That would certainly bug the shit out of me!

 

I probably would start to keep a calendar of what stores, date & time you were there, name of the employee and note whether they asked if they could help you with anything.

 

After I had a few visits of record, I would write a letter to the store, cc the corporate headquarters, with the specifics of your visit and say you are offended by this consistent treatment.  Research online sites to see if other people report similar treatment.

 

If you feel as if this bias is based on some form of discrimination, say so.  It may be a local issue that needs to be addressed or it could be a more ingrained corporate culture bias that they should be called out on.

 

ETA:  I would make a point to ask the offending employee their name and the name of their supervisor.  I probably wouldn't explain why, but it will make them uneasy.  I'd probably make a point of writing down the information they gave in front of them.

Edited by DeLurker
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(edited)

My latest pet peeve is personal. I hate it when store employees follow me around suspiciously. They will totally ignore the tweaking meth head in the heavy coat in August to follow my LL Bean wearing and Coach bag carrying ass around. I've never stolen anything in my life, not even as a little kid. I'm one of the most honest people on earth which is why it infuriates me. Ok, I stole some music off YouTube. I guess that gives me that dangerous aura.

Anyway, this happens ALL the time. I expect it when I walk into any store. And it pisses me off. And the older I get the closer I come to saying something. I'm wide open to suggestions on what to say. Anyone?

 

 

I've been on both sides of this issue, having worked retail in school and a few other times.  It sucks, but you wouldn't believe how much stuff gets shoplifted -- not by you.  Depending on they type of store, the loss numbers can be amazing.

 

When I've been followed around a clothing store in particular, I've turned around on the watcher, held up an item, and asked what they thought of it.  Sometimes they'd get embarrassed, sometimes they'd give me an answer; but most of the time they backed off at least a little. 

But I like DeLurker's take on it -- let the store(s) know, hold them accountable, etc. You have rights, too.  I would just say above all, stay cool and polite throughout your dealing with store personnel.

Edited by harrie
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I do remember cool whip and crisco and margarine.  We had a milk man and when I was very little we drank whole milk.  Some things are better today.

My mother always had Crisco in the house when I was growing up. I'm horrified by the thought of it now, knowing what it is, and that it was kept in the cabinet and was completely fine and not spoiled. We were very, very lucky because, along with the Crisco and other things my mother never refrigerated in our non-air conditioned house in the Piedmont region of North Carolina, my mother cooked us meat that had defrosted on the counter all day after it had been in the freezer for a very, very long time, and we never got sick.

 

I also grew up drinking whole milk until I went to college! My freshman-year suitemate was horrified and took me down to skim step-by-step. I don't know now how I ever drank whole milk. It's like a glass of fat. I do like full-fat half-and-half in my coffee, though.

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(edited)
ETA:  I would make a point to ask the offending employee their name and the name of their supervisor.  I probably wouldn't explain why, but it will make them uneasy.  I'd probably make a point of writing down the information they gave in front of them.

 

 

 

Hehe, I've used this technique in the past with rude employees. One of them literally turned white. Great idea. I don't think it's a bias or local as I'm not of any persuasion that's discriminated against unless you count being, ahem, fluffy. Definitely not local as it's happened my whole life in several different states and all kinds of stores. It's some type of whatever I give off, but it still pisses me off in part because the very last thing I'd ever do is steal.

I've been on both sides of this issue, having worked retail in school and a few other times.  It sucks, but you wouldn't believe how much stuff gets shoplifted -- not by you.  Depending on they type of store, the loss numbers can be amazing.

 

 

 

I've worked retail too so I understand that perspective. But I have literally been followed around while they ignore much more suspicious looking individuals. That's what bugs me so much. I've used your technique as a matter of fact and they do back off, but I'm really getting to the point of just being rude and asking what the fuck the problem is and why they're following me and not tweaker dude who's packing shit into his large coat and heading out the door. This just happened (not any tweakers) so I'm pretty pissed about it right now (not yelling at you, I appreciate your response).

Edited by bubbls
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Crisco is what my mom smears on the outside of potatoes before baking them.  (I've never seen her use it for anything else as an adult, and don't remember her using it on anything as a kid, but I wouldn't have paid much attention then.)  I don’t eat potatoes or Crisco, so this is my only exposure, but I know from observing this process at my parents’ house that the Crisco is in the pantry.

 

Didn't Loretta Lynn do Crisco commercials?  That's the other thing I think of upon reading about Crisco.

Mom never put the ever-present can of Crisco in the fridge and, as far as I can tell, it never went bad nor looked any different than normal.  And we lived in South Florida with no a/c.

 

I don't remember why she would use it though - she never baked except birthday cakes (from a box mix).  Maybe on the rare occasions she would make eggrolls, fried chicken or french fries.

Well, all of this has jogged an old pet peeve of mine.  For whatever reason, my dad insisted on storing the Cool Whip in the freezer.  We would have something that might go well with a whipped topping, and that's when he'd pull it out of the freezer and put it on the table. To be fair, it really didn't take very long to defrost, but back when I was young, I didn't care. 

 

It's probably more than 25 years since I let this bother me, but my brother still calls it Ice Whip in honor of one of my annoyed rants about it.

 

(Me being the one who lets pretty much everything slide, my occasional outbursts are well remembered.)

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Oh my god, this thread! I have laughed, I have learned, and I'm even learning to love humanity again...

 

You people are bad for my cynicism. Stop it.

 

Because it is Monday, I have a few work/coworker pet peeves, and some peeves I'm still peeved about from yesterday's trek to the gym:

 

Dear coworker who arrives every.damn.day at 7am and leaves precisely at 3pm every.damn. day: I don't give a rat's red behind what time you come in and what time you leave, though I do respect that you have a set schedule you prefer, so I don't schedule meetings with you past 3, even if it would be convenient for me to do so. So, please, knock off your snarky attitude about my once weekly work from home day and "later" arrival time. I'm not customer-facing, I stay later to make up for arrival time, and, really, it's not your g'd'mned business what my work hours are. Our manager knows when I'm in, I know my project deadlines and I respect your schedule. That's all you need to be concerned with.

 

Dear relentlessly political, incessantly extroverted coworker with much brown on your nose: I challenge you to a game. It's called, "How long can [Johnny] stay in his office and do his work before needing to come out and trying to talk someone up?" You really suck at this game; your record is ten minutes. Also, just stop with the little "checking in" questions: "So...were you out to lunch? Where'd you go?" "Oh, I heard you talking to X...how's that project going?" "I stopped by your office a minute ago and didn't see you; you must have been at a meeting?" Seriously, just f*ck right off with that sh*t.

 

Dear gym administration: If you have age limits posted at the lap pool and the weight room, how about you actually enforce them? I pay some good coin to have a nice workout. Having a kid decide that the lap pool looks fun and jump into my lane is not cool. Listening to tots shriek at the top of their lungs is really unpleasant in a room where everything echoes and is magnified by about a thousand. Trying to concentrate on lifting when a punky kid stares at me or grabs some random dumbbells off a rack and screams at his "adult" guide, "HOW DO I DO THIS??" is not an experience I want to repeat. You should be concerned with this for liability reasons if nothing else.

 

And a word to the adults who ignore the fact that said gym has a kiddie care and activities specifically for kids: Really? You think it's A-OK for your kid to jump in the lap pool for which you must be at least 17? Can't TELL you how much I appreciate having to keep an eye on your spawn while I'm swimming because, hello, the water is DEEP and your precious could drown. I'm not trained as a lifeguard, but hey, you're too busy admiring your darling from afar, so I'm the only chance your kid has if anything goes wrong. You should NOT be OK with that. You should also not be OK with your kid playing with free weights or stability balls; they're not toys. They're torture devices for adults (which is why there is a "14 and UP" sign). Send your kid to the playground or plunk him down with a yogurt smoothie in the cafe.

 

I really shouldn't have to explain why I give you a filthy look when you let your toddler into the hottub clearly marked "12 and up." You think I enjoy trying to relax as the apple of your eye kicks and tries to swim and runs into me and then both of you glare at ME as if I'm the problem? Oh, hay-ull no....

 

Finally, if your spawn cannot walk around the locker room without staring at everyone and does not understand the concept of "indoor voice" and can't get dressed without strewing the entire contents of all of your gym bags all over the locker room....well, may I suggest the family locker room?

 

I don't get it...back in the day, when we rode our pet Stegosaurus to school, there were places meant for kids to be kids and places where kids had to behave and act as much like an adult as possible.

 

Oh, and general human peeve, I would rather someone tell me, "Potato, I think you're full of sh*t and your ideas completely suck. I am NOT in the mood to listen to you and you're driving me up a wall at the moment. Let's reschedule." Instead of, "I see what you're saying, BUT..." Or "I understand your point, BUT..." Gah, how can you say you understand what I'm saying when I can clearly see you're just waiting for a break in the conversation to jump in and present your perfect solution?

 

This is waaaaayyyyy better than therapy. 

 

Happy peeving.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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(edited)

I'm wondering if we kept it in the freezer because I have some vague memories of anxiously awaiting the thaw.

One of my childhood pet peeves is my mom being too cheap to buy hotdog buns. We had to eat them on regular bread. To this day I refuse to eat a hotdog unless it's on a bun.

Edited by bubbls
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(edited)

 

Because it is Monday, I have a few work/coworker pet peeves, and some peeves I'm still peeved about from yesterday's trek to the gym: [sNIP]

 

...Oh, and general human peeve, I would rather someone tell me, "Potato, I think you're full of sh*t and your ideas completely suck. I am NOT in the mood to listen to you and you're driving me up a wall at the moment. Let's reschedule." Instead of, "I see what you're saying, BUT..." Or "I understand your point, BUT..." Gah, how can you say you understand what I'm saying when I can clearly see you're just waiting for a break in the conversation to jump in and present your perfect solution?

 

potatoradio, I loved your entire post. I think the kind and sensitive "therapy speak" began in the late '70s-early '80s (at least on television). Couples would face each other and repeat whatever their spouse/partner just said along with "And I hear you." Then they would give their own opinion, which was usually the exact opposite of what the other person just said. That kind of listening and responding crap pisses everyone off. Well, it definitely pisses off you and me.

 

I know that when I say, "I understand what you're saying, BUT," I mean exactly what your post said: I think your idea is full of sh*t, but I'm not going to say that because I want to maintain the tiny amount of peace that's left in the room.  

 

--There's something refreshing about brutal honesty. But as I learned from Jim Carrey in "Liar Liar," tact and consideration of others' feelings are also invaluable.

Edited by topanga
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Oh, and general human peeve, I would rather someone tell me, "Potato, I think you're full of sh*t and your ideas completely suck. I am NOT in the mood to listen to you and you're driving me up a wall at the moment. Let's reschedule." Instead of, "I see what you're saying, BUT..." Or "I understand your point, BUT..." Gah, how can you say you understand what I'm saying when I can clearly see you're just waiting for a break in the conversation to jump in and present your perfect solution?

The older I get, the more different approaches I discover to replace "I think you're full of shit". 

 

It is of course all dependent on my relationship to the person who is full of shit.  To siblings, my father, my friends of 25 years, I will almost always lead with "You are full of shit and your ideas suck."  Because that will be the best way to open up a meaningful dialogue with that group. 

 

To most coworkers, I will probably go with a direct question about the suckiest of the ideas. You know, to give them an opportunity to possibly change course once they heard the sucky idea come back at them in a different voice/tone.  This is kind of taking the high ground in a discussion.  Not the moral high ground, but the tactical high ground.  Because if the idea truly is sucktastic, letting the person run his or her mouth about it will be about as successful as.confederate soldiers trying to take Culp's Hill.

 

And for the random person I barely know, and I guess this would be at some sort of social situation where I'm forced to be in contact with friends of friends or relatives of friends or friends of relatives or other horrible people, I very well might go with, "I understand what you are saying, BUT..." because that is completely exactly what you said it is.  And that's going to convey, "Oh my God, do you even hear yourself when you speak?" in a way that I hope wouldn't get me punched in the face.

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potatoradio, A thousand times, yes.  Keep your damned kids out of my gym; I didn't sign up for Gymboree.  I use the Adult Locker Room, specifically signed "Age 21 and up."   Get your kids out of here.  The posted signs in the weight and cardio rooms say "Age 14 and up", yet each time I complain about increasingly younger children, I am told they are one of the many "exceptions" to the rule.  Can I have an exception to the "You must pay your membership dues" rule?

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Dropping cigarettes out the car window - Litter, of any sort, is a big peeve, but there's a special place in DeLurker Hell for those who litter with cigarettes.  When I was a kid it was common for people to empty their car ashtray on the ground whereever they happened to be parked.  When I lived in the Los Angeles area, I saw so so many people just casually toss their cigarette, sometimes still lit, out the car window.  Litter peeve aside, YOU ARE IN A FIREPRONE AREA!  I have a neighbor who probably smokes on the sly - he'll park on the street in front of my house when he needs to dispose of the "evidence" before he goes in his house.

 

Smoking is a personal choice, one that I am ok with you making if you are old enough and smart enough to make an informed decision about it.  Litter is a choice you are making for the rest of us.

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each time I complain about increasingly younger children, I am told they are one of the many "exceptions" to the rule.  Can I have an exception to the "You must pay your membership dues" rule?

 

Arrrgh!! That is so frustrating. When I complain to the front desk, I first get a shocked look, then "oh, well, they're just having fun...you know...you understand, right?" Oh, I understand, all right. I understand that you apparently think lawsuits are fun, because that's exactly what's going to happen if precious so much as breaks a nail while playing grownup. And yeah, I want to review my contract to find my discount for "understanding" that sometimes kiddie care just isn't good enough for some special snowflakes.

 

Gymboree...that cracked me up...

 

 

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Hoo boy, I am peeved today. Hail, fellow peevees.

 

Today's peeve (actually it has been going on for months now but today I am ready to explode) pertains to the way certain personality types require "validation" and "recognition" for their "efforts" every time they simply show up for something or, oh let's say, squeeze out a half-baked, typo-riddled, one paragraph so-called report. I guess their mommies and daddies gave out a participation medal and ticker-tape parade everytime these people farted. I swear to god the next time I see/hear a self-righteous "thank you for the validation, I wish everyone knew how important it is to recognize efforts" complete with quivering lip and a wee tear? Ugh. Recognition is EARNED, people. And validation is for parking tickets.

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I'm not sure if this qualifies as a peeve or it's just me whining/complaining...

 

I hate it when I'm walking through a door (the entrance to my apartment from the vestibule area), and someone (usually a teenager) sees I'm coming, but he's in such a rush to leave, that he steps on my foot, and it's only when I yelp (yes, I actually yelped yesterday because it hurt) that he turns around half-heartedly and mutters "sorry" even as he's walking away.

 

Now me? Whenever I accidentally do that to someone, be it on a train (because said train jerks to a sudden stop) or I'm in a rush, I always and I mean always, stop and apologize if I've bumped into, stepped on, or pushed someone. Because it's the polite thing to do.  

 

Unfortunately, I'm not one of those type of people who would turn around and say "watch the fuck where you're going!"

 

I only use F-bombs on zee boards! Hee.

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(edited)
One of my childhood pet peeves is my mom being too cheap to buy hotdog buns. We had to eat them on regular bread. To this day I refuse to eat a hotdog unless it's on a bun.

 

Wow, I'm not the only one this happened to.  I told my husband that when I was a kid my mom never bought hotdog buns, and he thought that was crazy.  We weren't rich by any means, but we were definitely not poverty-stricken, she could have easily afforded to buy hotdog buns.  I think she only bought hamburger buns because the flimsy white bread (imitation Wonder Bread) she bought would have fallen apart with a hamburger on it .  

Edited by ALenore
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Seriously, DeLurker??  Is that why you divorced him??/

 

I was once at a pub with a menu that included one or two pizzas.  My date ordered the BBQ chicken pizza, and asked the waitress if he could have pineapple on it.  She said "It doesn't come with pineapple."   He kept going on about it.... Surely you have pineapple in the kitchen, you could just put some on the chicken pizza... The waitress was getting increasingly frustrated with him, explaining that it wasn't an option, he kept acting like a big baby ...   Had we not been an hour from home, I would have walked out.   I did dump him when we arrived at my house.

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DeLurker I hear you on the annoying ex food weirdness. My ex didn't like any of his foods to touch other foods. As in carefully plate things so there is discernible space between food items. Gravy? Always served separately from potatoes. Shish kabobs? Remove from skewer & separate the individual items into groups. Ice cream sundaes were not a hit. It always amazed me that he'd eat pizza.
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I'm like that. I don't like my food touching on my plate. I don't mind ice cream sundaes and things that are supposed to go together but if I'm having 3 separate things I don't want them touching.

I want each item to taste like what it's supposed to taste like, I don't want everything on the plate to taste the same all mixed together.

My husband laughs at me when I did my plate. If we have a veggie that I put butter on, I'll even roll up a napkin to put around the veggie on the plate so the butter doesn't get on the other stuff.

Yeah, I'm weird. I'm weird and I'm proud dammit!

  • Love 3
Message added by Mod-Tigerkatze,

Your Pet Peeves are your Pet Peeves and you're welcome to express them here. However, that does not mean that you can use this topic to go after your fellow posters; being annoyed by something they say or do is not a Pet Peeve.

If there's something you need clarification on, please remember: it's always best to address a fellow poster directly; don't talk about what they said, talk to them. Politely, of course! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be treated with respect. (If need be, check out the how to have healthy debates guidelines for more).

While we're happy to grant the leniency that was requested about allowing discussions to go beyond Pet Peeves, please keep in mind that this is still the Pet Peeves topic. Non-pet peeves discussions should be kept brief, be related to a pet peeve and if a fellow poster suggests the discussion may be taken to Chit Chat or otherwise tries to course-correct the topic, we ask that you don't dismiss them. They may have a point.

Message added by Mod-Tigerkatze,

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