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SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
45 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the bit about being so incensed with God for being a writer and the little failed drafts - something that he would have pieced together by info gotten from Dean`s head - had potential. In general, I do think Michael could have potential but not as underwritten as he is. I loved his snarky little ass in episode 10.

But in general I agree, if he is not connected to Dean, I really don`t give a crap. They could have done so much with Michael in his head. Instead nothing happened. Sam got to make some emotional speeches to Dean and than to John so ironically his character benefited more from it than Dean did.      

Edited - moved to BvJ since there is no spoiler talk.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

That was out a while ago. It’s due to the 20-episodes per year new plan.  

It's funny because when I mentioned the early season-ender a while back, I was told there was no change in the end date due to the reduced number of eps. Heh. At least they (probably) won't have to go up against the series finale of Big Bang Theory.

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rue721

rue721

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the bit about being so incensed with God for being a writer and the little failed drafts - something that he would have pieced together by info gotten from Dean`s head - had potential.

I like the idea of God writing a bunch of different stories that all become different universes. But the idea that God (apparently) likes this universe best, so Michael's going to ruin it out of spite...eh. Been there, done that.

I think where the show is going with it is that AU!Michael is becoming the person that our version of Lucifer was -- he's making the same mistakes that our Lucifer made back in the day (in the time of Cain and Abel). In which case, I think he probably will end up possessing Nick and getting dispatched that way.

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

Isn't that the release weekend for Avengers Endgame, though? Thursday would at least have Midnight Premieres.

Yup!

Personally, I won't be able to catch it live for other reasons (family obligation), but I basically never catch this show live anymore because it's on so early in the evening. I am still so perplexed by why it's on at 8pm. It doesn't seem like an 8pm show to me at all -- isn't that "family hour"? But eh, I guess it's working for TPTB.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
6 minutes ago, rue721 said:

It doesn't seem like an 8pm show to me at all -- isn't that "family hour"? But eh, I guess it's working for TPTB.

I can only imagine this is the audience they think they are targeting with the writing these days. ETA: Or, they know that their larger audience isn't watching live anyway, so the earlier timeslot doesn't matter so much.

I'd rather see them go up against a midnight movie premiere than the finale of one of the highest rated shows of the last decade or so. I imagine even casual viewers will tune in to see how it all ends - and it is a two-part finale, airing back to back, so it will take up the whole 8 pm hour.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

I like the idea of God writing a bunch of different stories that all become different universes. But the idea that God (apparently) likes this universe best, so Michael's going to ruin it out of spite...eh

Michael said that Chuck moves on from all his failed drafts "including this one" so he didn`t say God loves this one best, kinda the opposite really. And Michael said he wanted to ruin them all, one by one, to get Chuck`s attention - and then to kill him. He is basically Amara but not Lucifer.

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ahrtee

ahrtee

(edited)
26 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Question: Do you have any Supernatural scoop? —Angie
Ausiello: Affirmative. “A very significant fan favorite is going to come back” for the season finale, executive producer Andrew Dabb teases.

Please please PLEASE don't let it be Lucifer.  But I have a sinking feeling that's who it is.  Because Dabb seems to think he's a major fan favorite.  **

**ETA: Plus they've already brought back (and mostly killed off) anyone who could be considered even vaguely a fan favorite.  Maybe there's an AU Eileen?  

Edited by ahrtee
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SueB

SueB

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(edited)
Quote

Question: Do you have any Supernatural scoop? —Angie
Ausiello: Affirmative. “A very significant fan favorite is going to come back” for the season finale, executive producer Andrew Dabb teases.

Thanks @PAForrest

So... 'very significant'.  And it's NOT JDM, because we just had him.

My options (grouped by where they are at):

On Vacation:
Chuck - IDK, a little early for 'Dad' to step in.

Original Recipe (not AU) options:
Jim Beaver (Bobby Singer) - seems redundant
Felicia Day (Charlie Bradbury) - seems redundant

Back From Heaven (because the Heaven mess is still an open storyline):
Osric Chau (Kevin Tran) - fits with Donatello being randomly in this season
Samantha Ferris (Ellen Harvelle) - too much to hope for?
Alona Tal (Jo Harvelle) - ditto

The “Empty” is broke loose:
Lucifer - "significant fan favorite' HIGHLY debateable - higher probability because of the Terminator 'waking' last November.  I really really think Dabb is absolutely trolling fandom if he calls him a fan favorite.  There's almost nothing fans agree on but 'we're done with Lucifer' is one of them. 
Genevieve Padalecki (Ruby 2.0) - not likely
Rachel Miner (Meg 2.0) - not likely
Sebastian Roché (Balthazar) - not 'significant'
Julian Richings (Death) - not likely

Purgatory
Ty Olsson (Benny) - I wish but I see no logic to get me there

Hell
Jake Abel (Adam Milligan) - 'fan favorite' is more like 'gaping plot hole' but this could work

I'm going to go with Jake Abel.  And here's why: he randomly shows up at Creation Events.  He's back at Nashville Con this weekend.  Sam Smith showed up at a SPNDC randomly and then was in the finale a few weeks later. 

I'll be scouring all of their Social Media feeds for hints but if it's a surprise, they'll be mum.

Edited by SueB
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PAForrest

PAForrest

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

Thanks @PAForrest

So... 'very significant'.  And it's NOT JDM, because we just had him.

My options (grouped by where they are at):

On Vacation:
Chuck - IDK, a little early for 'Dad' to step in.

Original Recipe (not AU) options:
Jim Beaver (Bobby Singer) - seems redundant
Felicia Day (Charlie Bradbury) - seems redundant

Back From Heaven:
Osric Chau (Kevin Tran) - fits with Donatello being randomly in this season
Samantha Ferris (Ellen Harvelle) - too much to hope for?
Alona Tal (Jo Harvelle) - ditto

The “Empty” is broke loose:
Lucifer - "significant fan favorite' HIGHLY debateable
Genevieve Padalecki (Ruby 2.0) - not likely
Rachel Miner (Meg 2.0) - not likely
Sebastian Roché (Balthazar) - not 'significant'
Julian Richings (Death) - not likely

Purgatory
Ty Olsson (Benny) - I wish but I see no logic to get me there

Hell
Jake Abel (Adam Milligan) - 'fan favorite' is more like 'gaping plot hole' but this could work

I'm going to go with Jake Abel.  And here's why: he randomly shows up at Creation Events.  He's back at Nashville Con this weekend.  Sam Smith showed up at a SPNDC randomly and then was in the finale a few weeks later. 

Interesting. My first guess was Chuck, but I agree it's probably too soon for his return.  At this point I think he's a series ending kind of return, as is John IF we see him one more time.

Adam isn't exactly a fan favorite by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think the producers know fans have been saying for years that his story needs to be wrapped up - get him out of the cage, that sort of thing. So he could be a possibility.

I'd LOVE Benny to come back, but I don't see that happening, more's the pity. Ellen was absolutely a fan favorite of mine, it'd be great to see her again since we've already seen Jo again.  But, again, somehow I doubt it.

Since we did see Pamela this season, even though she was a figment of Michael's imagination in Dean's fantasy, is it possible we could see Ash? The actor is still doing the con circuit, and he, like Sam Ferris and Jake Abel, did appear in the latest Hillywood production.

Kevin Tran is a possibility too because of the Donatello thing.

We already know Jim Beaver and Danneel are returning.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Sure sounds like Dean.  Could be Rowena but the quote is from "Clash of the Titans".  

Context from the "Clash of the Titan" wiki:

Quote

For all Draco’s venom, he spits great lines. He flashes a grin at Perseus in Medusa’s lair, just as he’s turned to stone. Before that, he tells Perseus, “Let them know men did this.” When asked why he never smiles, he says, “When I spit in the eyes of gods, then I’ll smile.” He addresses the two brothers who want to join their quest by saying, “If you can keep up, and you don’t mind dying, come along.”

Draco sacrificing himself to distract Medusa so that Perseus can kill her makes a decent parallel. 

Which leads credence to the "Jack takes on Michael".  Because Draco=Dean and Jack=Perseus.

But lets not forget, Dabb is a fan troll.  He'd give a foiler just for the hell of it.

Edited by SueB
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rue721

rue721

I would love to see Kevin back!

I would be intrigued to see Adam back.

But I expect to see Gabriel back. Possibly Gabriel and Chuck. More because those actors are favorites of the SPN cast/crew than because it would be good for the show or even because that's what us fans would like.

If it were about what the fans would like, I think Osric would be back in a heartbeat. Kevin was a really popular character and everyone is always delighted when he's in an episode. Osric Chau was also really fun in Dirk Gently, if anyone else watched that show (a huge favorite of mine!). 

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catrox14

catrox14

My completely unlikely but who is a definite fan favorite is Crowley.  But sadly, I think it will be recast as other than Mark Sheppard, which I think misses the point of why Crowley was sooo good. It was all Mark Sheppard. 

I thought about others like Chuck, or Ellen, or Jo, but I don't see those as being particularly surprising. Crowley would be.

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Bergamot

Bergamot

16 hours ago, Jakes said:

This is where I always disagreed with a segment of Dean fans--Dean is the center of the show and drama regardless, always...So for me he doesn't need Michael. 

16 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Michael, specifically? No. I agree with that. But he does need something or else we`re in Season 8.B or 12. Shudders. 

Yes. Case in point? Last night's episode. Take a look at the end of the episode to see how "central" he was to the show and the drama after being severed from the Michael storyline. LOL also at those who maintained that it was "waaaaay too early" for this episode to be the end of Dean's storyline. It should have been, but for some strange reason, it wasn't!

I guess now that we have reached the end of the most begrudged storyline ever on the show, the rest of the season will be about Jack. And since Lucifer is apparently going to be back, the storyline will be about Jack versus Lucifer, maybe with Jack being tempted to go dark side. Unfortunately for me, I don't watch the show for Jack, and I am heartily sick of Lucifer.

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SueB

SueB

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I'm going to go ahead and throw "Cain" back into the mix for 'fan favorite'.  It's still a long-shot as I think Tim Osmundson has some permanent disability on the right (?) side of his face -- but they could cover that with some horror-makeup (although that is weird for this particular character from a plot perspective). BUT Tim IS in Vancouver in March shooting Psych the Movie 2.  Which means 1) he's filming and 2) he's in Vancouver.  Of course he could be too busy for Supernatural but I think he's definitely a candidate.  No earthly clue what plot point would get us there. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I think AU characters are probably out since there is no point to re-opening a rift now unless it's to shove Not!Kaiah back through. Dean did promise(ish) to help her get back to her own world I think? I can't see her being a fan favorite, but maybe she hooks up with Claire first? I can see Dabb thinking everybody loves her.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

41 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Wish it were Benny. 

Depends on how they did it. I wouldn't want to see a redux of Benny, the bestest brother ever, myself, but if they did something interesting and not cliched with the character, then okay. Unfortunately I think what I would want - a three dimensional, not saintly Benny - would pretty much piss everyone else off.

AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

21 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

I guess it really just depends on who they THINK is a fan favorite. Apparently they think we are all in love with Nick/Lucifer, which is delusional, so who knows what else they think? Perhaps they believe that we're all pining for a return from Metatron.

:: small voice :: I love Metatron.

I thought he was an interesting villain. I found his story intriguing, especially his turn at being basically human where he learned what the stories he purported to love so much were really about and he could finally understand them beyond them having a "good plot" or interesting characters. And I loved him in "Don't Call Me Shurley."

I would entirely love to see Metatron back. :: ducks any flying rotten vegetables and makes a hasty retreat ::

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

After pondering some more (yes, I do get a bit obsessive when I don't know WTF is happening), I've realized that the only way Dean and Michael could possibly be out of the mytharc is if Billie popped back in and unequivocally took back everything she said in 14.10. Her words weren't ambiguous or open to interpretation: Dean's only two possible deaths both had to do with Michael. 

Shoving a Michael-infected Jack into the Malak box, for instance, can't possibly be the true solution. If it was, then at least one other death book for Dean would exist. But it was made explicitly clear that there were only two final fates for him: either Dean died while being used by Michael to end the world, or Dean died at the bottom of the ocean while housing Michael. 

I just don't see Billie coming back only a few episodes later to announce that Dean's death books have somehow changed again, despite no further disruptions to the multiverse. And if throwing away Michael!Dean in the 14th episode had been the plan all along, there would have been no reason to establish this entire plot point in the first place. This can't be the writers hastily writing themselves out of a corner if they went out of their way to create that corner. And if they really needed to introduce the Malak box for whatever reason, they could have easily done so without also setting up a giant dangling question mark.

So until Dean's only two fates are explained/LOL!Canoned away, he will still be directly involved in the season's conclusion. Maybe Jack goes bad, Dean breaks our Michael out of the Cage to deal with him, then manages to get into the Malak box afterwards and that's the cliffhanger going into season 15. At this point, I have no idea.

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raven

raven

We have two topics for Spoilers and Spec - post accordingly or your post will be removed:

In this topic: DON’T: Talk about how much you HATE what will happen to your beloved Dean/Sam/Cas because of these spoilers, etc, etc. There’s another thread for that…

These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation about SPN Spoilers — DO: Talk about why you are very unhappy about a spoiler/spoilers that have been leaked. DON’T: Rehash past seasons unless it ties directly to the spoiler.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Yes, it is.

I still don`t think Dean is joining the case. Especially not at a mid-way point for interviewing witnesses. This shot could be from anywhere. Or it is a fake-out. Supposedly this "town" is a world created by a psychic. He may create some sort of wonky scenario.

Jensen shot approximately for two days. Same s JDM did for the 300th. So he could be in maybe the beginning, two scenes with Jack and possibly a short fake-out in the town but I think actual Dean is whereever with Jack. The main part of the episode will have Sam and Cas at the case. 

Then I think Jensen had normal shooting days for episode 16 with the kids. Then again normal for ep 17. He missed the end of 18 but I read J2 weren`t shooting on those days anyway. Then he missed the beginning of shooting for 19 and Jensen said he had to be written out of a part of it. Probably something with Jack going by the title. The Finale is anyone`s guess though I would wager more than normal shooting days for both.       

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

10 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

:: small voice :: I love Metatron.

I thought he was an interesting villain. I found his story intriguing, especially his turn at being basically human where he learned what the stories he purported to love so much were really about and he could finally understand them beyond them having a "good plot" or interesting characters. And I loved him in "Don't Call Me Shurley."

I would entirely love to see Metatron back. :: ducks any flying rotten vegetables and makes a hasty retreat ::

Metatron was one of my fave villains too! And my husband’s too (and we rarely agree). 

5 hours ago, 7kstar said:

With the empty threat still hanging over Cas, I suspect that the cliffhanger will be all will be so happy and poof Cas is taken to the empty.

Fan favorite, well that is open to interpretation and for now, I doubt it will be someone I'm longing to see.  My trust factor is missing...

I long to see this. All 4 of them happy at the beach (sans shirts, of course) playing volleyball (or talking AV), all smiling and joking and having a grand ol time. This is what Dean has always wanted. Then Cas looks up to smile at the sun on his face, and boom! A dark cloud comes down and covers him in black goo. He gives them an apologetic and sad look as he’s consumed; and they all scream as he disappears  “Cas!” Cut to credits. Season cliffhanger. 

SueB

SueB

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(edited)
4 hours ago, S Cook Productions said:

Looks fun! Who wrote this one?

From Jess' sheet:

Written by:  Steve Yockey and Meghan Fitzmartin
Director:  Phil Sgriccia

And I would LOVE Meg.  Megstiel is another crackship for me. I thought the MS would keep her out - this con news implies it might not. I would love it. 

But I also think the 'fan favorite' has to be a game-changer character.  Someone more cosmic than Meg. 

Edited by SueB
Added Meg comment
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catrox14

catrox14

I'm thinking that Jack absorbing Michael's grace is going to kill him since it's essentially stolen grace, which was killing Castiel in s9 IIRC.  Of course that would entail the show following it's own canon. On the other hand, maybe Jack having been half archangel before Lucifer stole his grace, makes him less likely to die from stolen grace? Also, shouldn't Lucifer have eventually died from Jack's grace.   Or is that all moot now because LOLcanon reasons?

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SueB

SueB

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Just now, catrox14 said:

I'm thinking that Jack absorbing Michael's grace is going to kill him since it's essentially stolen grace, which was killing Castiel in s9 IIRC.  Of course that would entail the show following it's own canon. On the other hand, maybe Jack having been half archangel before Lucifer stole his grace, makes him less likely to die from stolen grace? Also, shouldn't Lucifer have eventually died from Jack's grace.   Or is that all moot now because LOLcanon reasons?

I'll bet money that Jack's convulsion on taking "Gabriel's" grace was really taking "AUMichael's" grace.  Further, if AUMichael knows that he can keep Jack alive by burning up his soul power - then he could be working that mojo in the background - until Jack is just an empty shell from a soul perspective - and AUMichael takes back control. IF, of course, AUMichael isn't dead. If Jack starts turning darker, then I think we know he's still using soul power. 

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Cambion

Cambion

As for the fan favorite, I would love to see Meg back.  Such a great character.  So many great flippant lines and I love the back and forth she has with all the others.

I also wonder - though this seems like it might be much too logical and within canon to actually happen - Jack getting grace back could mean he would fulfill the angel's original plan for him which was to create new angels.  Especially since I didn't think resurrecting angels was more than a rare thing, was it?

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SueB

SueB

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20 minutes ago, Cambion said:

As for the fan favorite, I would love to see Meg back.  Such a great character.  So many great flippant lines and I love the back and forth she has with all the others.

I also wonder - though this seems like it might be much too logical and within canon to actually happen - Jack getting grace back could mean he would fulfill the angel's original plan for him which was to create new angels.  Especially since I didn't think resurrecting angels was more than a rare thing, was it?

So far only God and The Empty has resurrected angels. And it was Cas both times. 

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7kstar

7kstar

39 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

Dabb didn't seem all that interested or like he'd even thought about Castiel's Deal since it happened; I've already put it in the same file as Billies "cosmic consequences". If they eventually want to kill the empty or make it collapse or whatever I just hope they're prepared to deal with it, because that should be a BIG story line with an appropriate number of relevant characters ready to be addressed, not just a few Demon #3's recognizing the Winchesters at some point and some bad dialogue about how there's billions off screen and a reignited heaven civil war. So i think they'd either only go in there for specific characters, leave it altogether, or keep it on the back-burner in case they have enough warning for a final season and want an excuse to cameo everyone again...

4

I guess I'm alone, but it just feels like let's just throw this out there and see what sticks.  If the fans love it, we might go there but only if it further's our agenda...

(How the TPTB/Writers might think??) If we think the fans love it and it isn't the direction we want, we'll deny it so that way we won't offend anyone, but wait they wind up offending everyone except for the few that wanted X to begin with. 

I use to love spoilers because I enjoyed trying to figure out if I could guess what they would do...but now it's just to see if I watch the show on Thursday or when I get around to it.

For some reason, the scene with Cas and Sam reminds me of the movie  "Pleasantville".  No clue why but maybe it will be good for a few laughs???

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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