The Hobbit Trilogy

[Athena]

For all your hobbity goodness.

[dkb]

I've watched the Lord of the Rings Trilogy and all three of the Hobbits, and I think The Battle of the Five Armies was the worst.

 

I was super excited to watch it-got free tickets to an advance screening-and was disappointed. I am watching it again next week, maybe my expectations were to high.

 

 

Anybody else seen it yet?

[missbonnie]

My nephew saw it and hated it. I am going to see it tomorrow, with some trepidation I must admit, given all the negative things I keep reading.

[ZoqFotPik]

I've watched the Lord of the Rings Trilogy and all three of the Hobbits, and I think The Battle of the Five Armies was the worst.

While I don't think it is an absolutely horrible movie, I agree that Five Armies was the worst of both trilogies. In fact, I think The Hobbit movies got progressively worse, as it became more and more clear that they were just padding the story. I thought that Gandalf's subplot went nowhere, considering Kili dies at the end, his injury in DoS was unnecessary, Tauriel really didn't do anything important. Also, while I thought it was dumb that they killed Smaug within the first 20 minutes or so of BoFA, I kind of understand why they did it that way. If they ended Desolation with his death, people unfamiliar with story may think that was the end and not understand what the third movie was about. Overall I think it was extremely unnecessary to split the book into 3 movies, at most it should have been two with the first one ending with them getting to Laketown and second killing Smaug and the battle.

 

Edited to make it more clear which character dies.

Edited December 20, 2014 by ZoqFotPik

[Cirien]

Gandalf dies at the end? I've watched movie twice and I didn't get that all

[thuganomics85]

I was looking for this thread.  I saw it on Wednesday, and I easily thought it was the worst of The Hobbit trilogy.  Personally, I thought The Desolation of Smaug was the best (probably because the Bilbo/Smaug scene was the highlight of the entire trilogy, IMO), and I had hope this meant this movie would continue it, but nope.  I thought it bounced around between one-dimensional, repetitive battles, and boring talking scenes.  Really, I think it was the shortest film of the entire franchise, and I honestly thought it dragged on forever.

 

While I'm not a full on Tolkien purist, I really rolled my eyes hard at the change of Kili dying to save Tauriel.  So cliched.  And, hell, in the end, Legolas had to bail her out too, so way to mess that up, guys.  Why have her be a ultimate badass in the second film, and just damsel her here?  And, the scene with her and Thranduil over Kili's dead body was the worst.  I usually like Evangeline Lilly and Lee Pace, but that was some bad acting.  Granted, the script really didn't help them.

 

All the stuff with Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, and Saruman was pure fanservice, but it was almost worth it for the fight scene, because I'm pretty sure Christopher Lee did the majority of the fight.  That man is 92 years-old.  I would not want to get on his bad side!

 

Speaking of fanservice: that moment when Thranduil told Legolas to go find a mysterious guy who goes by the name "Strider."  According to other threads, following the timeline, Aragorn would only be ten years-old at this time.  Was that just a silly goof, or am I truly suppose to believe Aragorn was so badass, that the Strider legend was already being formed before he was even a freaking teenager?

 

That said, I continue to believe Martin Freeman is the perfect Bilbo.  These films as a whole might have not matched him, but they don't take away how great he was in this trilogy.

 

Really think things would have been fine if they just kept it to one or maybe even two films.  This trilogy idea just didn't work for me.  I wish I could say at least it's done, but with Peter Jackson, I wonder if he has something else up his sleeve.  Young Aragorn Chronicles?  Adventures of Kid Frodo and Kid Sam?  A post-LOTR road-trip movie with Legolas and Gimli?  Hey, I really wouldn't put it past him.

[briochetwist]

Saw this on Wednesday night and I'm honestly still not sure how I felt about it.  We saw it in 3D and I found it to be so incredibly distracting.  Some of the scenes looked amazing in 3D, but alot of the daytime scenes looked like I was watching people larping in a field instead of watching an actual movie.  It took me right out of it, I actually had a hard time watching the movie because of it.  I think I'd have to see it again in a normal theatre before forming any real opinion on it.

[cambridgeguy]

 

Speaking of fanservice: that moment when Thranduil told Legolas to go find a mysterious guy who goes by the name "Strider."  According to other threads, following the timeline, Aragorn would only be ten years-old at this time.  Was that just a silly goof, or am I truly suppose to believe Aragorn was so badass, that the Strider legend was already being formed before he was even a freaking teenager?

In the books there's a 20 year gap between Bilbo's party and the fellowship forming which doesn't appear to happen in the movies.  That could make Aragorn 30ish during the Hobbit while keeping him his book age when he becomes king. 

 

One place where this trilogy failed is with the dwarves.  Kili was only memorable because of the love triangle (plus he looked the most human), Fili got some time just because he had to die, and Dwalin was inexplicably the one who got a one on one scene with Thorin even though Balin is the most logical choice.  Everybody else pretty much faded into the background

 

The actual battle felt like a poor man's version of the Battle of Pelennor fields, especially when they had the fighting in Dale (i.e. Minas Tirith).  I don't think it was very clear why the battle finally turned.  In the book Beorn crushes Bolg (the sole commander) and this makes the orcs retreat - however, Bolg himself wasn't hiding out on a hill far away from the battle so seeing their leader killed was demoralizing.  Killing Azog and Bolg in the movie appeared meaningless since they weren't giving detailed orders at that point in the battle and nobody on the field could see it anyway.

 

Oh, and I bet Thorin wishes he had scrounged up some mithril armor for himself and Fili and Kili.  Well, Fili was screwed either way but skewering could have been avoided with that impenetrable armor.  If you're stupid enough to charge into battle without a helmet (right, Bilbo?) at least find the best you can get for the rest of your body.

[Haleth]

I didn't bother seeing DoS in the theater and have no interest in seeing BoFA.  I wish someone would edit the 3 movies together, throw out all the unnecessary subplots that Jackson used to over pad his films, and issue a new version with just the original story.

 

While I'm not a full on Tolkien purist, I really rolled my eyes hard at the change of Kili dying to save Tauriel.  So cliched.  And, hell, in the end, Legolas had to bail her out too, so way to mess that up, guys.  Why have her be a ultimate badass in the second film, and just damsel her here?

Because Evangeline Lilly does it so well?  Shades of Kate Austin.  Ugh.

Speaking of fanservice: that moment when Thranduil told Legolas to go find a mysterious guy who goes by the name "Strider."

Seriously?  Ugh again.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Haleth

[Jediknight]

I found it the best of the trilogy, but still not up to the Lord of the Rings.

 

Also, really we get that damn love story that goes on forever, but we only got like 3 seconds of Beorn?

[heebiejeebie]

Seems to me that Peter Jackson just sort of loses control when it comes to straying too far from the book material.  And it is odd that he did so in the manner done in The Hobbit Films.  I find it odd he didn't at least expand on what was known via the books.  Say Beruthial and her cats instead of Tauriel.  Use of Beorn more and better.  The back story of Elrond's wife and his twin sons.  As a kid when I first read tLotR, I was actually bored with the bit about Frodo and Sam going into Mordor.  So almost hated The Two Towers.  But man I loved the glossaries. Adored them.  Wallowed in them.  If Jackson was going three movies, just using The Hobbit provided him with plenty of story to pad (imagine a small movie wiithin the first movie that did ten minutes or so of full out goodness involving the Fall of Gondolin when they found the two swords?).  Again Queen Beruthiel as the love interest instead of a made up Tauriel would have been much more interesting.   Imagine Evangeline Lilly 'purring' over either Legolas or Kili (as long as it wasn't too Eartha Kitt on the old Batman show).  If they are going to shoe horn a female into the trilogy as was done, she should have been faceted strong and represented something other for men to save. 

 

Dol Guldur as filler could have been epic and instead ended up flat.  The actual Battle in the title ended up being nothing more than the very worst elements of every other Middle Earth battle done in tLotR trilogy. 

 

Sadly I promised my nephews I would take them Boxing Day so I have to sit through it twice. 

 

I do think the trilogy would have been much better served if Smaug had died at the very end.  If people couldn't figure out the series continued to a third one when ads came out telling them there was a third Hobbit movie with the very material beyond Smaug then they are too stupid to live. 

[Rick Kitchen]

Considering how much I hated how much of a dick Thorin was before he even got "gold fever", I didn't care at all that he died, I almost rooted for it.  Plus, his death is canon and all...

[bluvelvet]

Just saw this today, I guess I am in the minority because I actually enjoyed it probably the most of the three films. That being said I do recognize that not much really happened in the plot and there was a lot of padding. They absolutely didn't need to add the whole "go search for Stryker" bit there at the end. Also I knew that Legolas would be fine since he shows up in LoTR. 

 

I won't lie, I absolutely LOVED Kili and Tauriel and was very upset that they killed him. I did *sniff* at the end when she sat over his dead body and I was HOPING that somehow he would live. When she was asked if she would give up her immortality for him, I assumed it would come into play when he died and he would get his life back with her being a mortal woman. However as the show went on and on and no secret solution for Kili to live, I realized he was really dead. I wanted them to get married and have little Dwarvin babies. Anyone know the significance of the stone he gave her as a promise? I have never read the book so I don't know about Dwarf tradition.

 

I expected Thorin's death and happy that he died himself and not in the madness haze. Pity his line had to end though.

 

Also as fan service wouldn't have minded seeing baby Frodo *runs and hides*

 

Agree though, 3 movies was too much for one book, but they will make their money.

Edited December 21, 2014 by bluvelvet

[heebiejeebie]

Just saw this today, I guess I am in the minority because I actually enjoyed it probably the most of the three films. That being said I do recognize that not much really happened in the plot and there was a lot of padding. They absolutely didn't need to add the whole "go search for Stryker"(1) bit there at the end. Also I knew that Legolas would be fine since he shows up in LoTR. 

 

I won't lie, I absolutely LOVED Kili and Tauriel and was very upset that they (2) killed him. I did *sniff* at the end when she sat over his dead body and I was HOPING that somehow he would live. When she was asked if she would give up her immortality for him, I assumed it would come into play when he died and he would get his life back with her being a mortal woman. However as the show went on and on and no secret solution for Kili to live, I realized he was really dead. I wanted them to get married and have little Dwarvin babies (3). Anyone know the significance of the stone he gave her as a promise? (4) I have never read the book so I don't know about Dwarf tradition.(5)

 

I expected Thorin's death and happy that he died himself and not in the madness haze. Pity his line had to end though.

 

Also as fan service wouldn't have minded seeing baby Frodo *runs and hides*

 

Agree though, 3 movies was too much for one book, but they will make their money.

 

1. That would be Strider.  Though in the books Legolas meets Strider/Aragorn for the first time in The Fellowship of the Ring at the council of Elrond which Jackson actually puts in the movie.

 

2. Tolkien killed Kili.  No 'they ' about it.  It was not something that was thought up in the film.  Alongside Thorin and Fili before the gates of Erebor when they fought the Battle of Five Armies.  Which made much more sense than Jackson's feeble little mind did

 

3. In the books Elves and Dwarves did not work that way.  Legolas and Gimli were seen as almost unnatural just being friends.  A Dwarf hoping on top of a Elven woman would be more of a crime than some consuming of a love that dare not be.  They literally were different races.  Not different ethnic group members..

 

4. Only Peter Jackson knows.  Well maybe Kay or Jared's too.

 

5. No such thing Peter Jackson made it up,  Just like he did Tauriel in her entirety.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of websites already up and running which detail how different the movies are from the book.  If you care that is.  There is definitely something to be said for the audience who hasn't read the book and just can sit back and see it all as a movie and nothing else.  I might have enjoyed more myself not knowing what was cannon and what was Jackson.

Edited December 22, 2014 by heebiejeebie

[bluvelvet]

1. That would be Strider.  Though in the books Legolas meets Strider/Aragorn for the first time in The Fellowship of the Ring at the council of Elrond which Jackson actually puts in the movie.

 

2. Tolkien killed Kili.  No 'they ' about it.  It was not something that was thought up in the film.  Alongside Thorin and Fili before the gates of Erebor when they fought the Battle of Five Armies.  Which made much more sense than Jackson's feeble little mind did

 

3. In the books Elves and Dwarves did not work that way.  Legolas and Gimli were seen as almost unnatural just being friends.  A Dwarf hoping on top of a Elven woman would be more of a crime than some consuming of a love that dare not be.  They literally were different races.  Not different ethnic group members..

 

4. Only Peter Jackson knows.  Well maybe Kay or Jared's too.

 

5. No such thing Peter Jackson made it up,  Just like he did Tauriel in her entirety.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of websites already up and running which detail how different the movies are from the book.  If you care that is.  There is definitely something to be said for the audience who hasn't read the book and just can sit back and see it all as a movie and nothing else.  I might have enjoyed more myself not knowing what was cannon and what was Jackson.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification,  I thought of reading the book but I decided against it. I knew Thorin would die as I read that somewhere on the internet but otherwise I really thought all of the other dwarves would live so I was surprised when Kili and his brother were killed.

[Jediknight]

Anyone know the significance of the stone he gave her as a promise? I have never read the book so I don't know about Dwarf tradition.

His mother gave it to him so he'd remember his promise to come back.

[Spartan Girl]

I saw it yesterday and thought it was okay, although in all the filler Peter Jackson crammed in, I guess he forgot to show Bilbo's sword glowing in the middle of the battle with all the Orcs.

 

Seeing Galadriel do stuff was awesome.  I really wish they would have illuminated whatever backstory she and Gandalf had.  Something was going on there...

[Cirien]

Sting was glowing. You saw it glow when they were on the tower opposite Azog's command tower (or whatever the it was- where he murdered Fili)

I'm pretty sure it's implied that Galadriel knows Gandalf is a mail. So she has a slight crush

[Spartan Girl]

Oh ok.  Must have missed that.

 

My jaw dropped when Legolas actually ran out of arrows.  Holy crap, since when did that happen?

[Bruinsfan]

What, he doesn't just start plucking reeds up out of the field and killing orcs by shooting those?

[dkb]

Watched it again today, and I liked it better. I think I still would rank it at the bottom though.

 

Considering how much I hated how much of a dick Thorin was before he even got "gold fever", I didn't care at all that he died, I almost rooted for it.  Plus, his death is canon and all...

Totally agree with the above. I thought he was rude to Bilbo throughout the movies and didn't get the closeness between him and Bilbo in this movie. 

Also letting his cousin, Dain and his dwarves fight the Orcs without helping- even though the reason they came was to support Thorin- was horrible. I know he was influenced by the "Dragon Sickness" but seriously not cool. 

 

I haven't read the book for many years but, was that in the book-leaving his cousin to fight? and why didn't the others in the company ditch him and go and fight with the dwarves before Thorin's change.

 

Is the last scene between Bilbo and the dwarves supposed to be the same day of the battle? Or had some time passed?

[Cirien]

I think some time has passed. The men of Dale and the dwarf needed time to gather their dead no?

[Dandesun]

Well, that was just one big battle scene wasn't it?

 

Frankly, I'm glad I saw it on the big screen. And I about died when Billy Connelly showed up on a warpig. That man has a distinctive voice. Knowing the books and the stories of Durin's Folk I think it's cool that Dain wound up as King Under the Mountain after Thorin's death.

 

I better not see any dwarf/elf hybrids show up in D&D because of this trilogy, though. I honestly do not know why they put that storyline in at all. I'm a lady viewer and didn't need a romance story to keep me interested. That's not why I watch movies for the most part. (Also, this lady viewer has no interest in either reading or seeing 50 Shades of Grey... so there's that, too.)

 

But man do I love Martin Freeman. He's actually the only one that made me cry at the end when he was with Thorin. Martin Freeman's Bilbo is just... wonderful. I particularly liked when he got back to The Shire. "You know very well who I am Lobelia Sackville-Baggins! And those are MY spoons!!"

 

And for purely nerdy reasons that have nothing to do with being a Tolkein purist... I absolutely loved seeing Elrond, Saruman, Gandalf and Galadriel kicking ass at Dol Guldur. And, man, did they go full bore with Galadriel's water element when she stepped up and wrecked the hell out of Sauron's shade and the spectres of the Nine.

 

There wasn't much plot, certainly... and I'm sad that Fili didn't get a little more love (he was my favorite) but it was an enjoyable spectacle on the big screen.

[ikmccall]

The above post times a million!

[Grammaeryn]

I saw this tonight with my brother. I had more fun ripping it to shreds driving home. My least favorite of all 6 movies. BUT the opening with Smaug was seriously kick ass. They should have ended The Desolation of Smaug with that. There was also a lot of Unintentional Comedy Gold. Like Thranduil's face after Gandalf warned him of the Orc army. Or Legolas turning into Super Mario. The CGI was pretty shoddy too. I swear there is a scene where through a doorway you see ranks of Elven soldiers marching by but through the next doorway, there's nothing. Also, Bard's kids? STFU and let your dad fight undistracted. BTW Half in the Bag's review is up.

[Jediknight]

I saw this tonight with my brother. I had more fun ripping it to shreds driving home. My least favorite of all 6 movies. BUT the opening with Smaug was seriously kick ass.

Of course it kicked ass, it had Smaug, who they just nailed to perfection, and Bard.  One good thing about stretching it into 3 movies, was giving Bard a backstory, and they made him a badass beyond compare.

[Jeebus Cripes]

And for purely nerdy reasons that have nothing to do with being a Tolkein purist... I absolutely loved seeing Elrond, Saruman, Gandalf and Galadriel kicking ass at Dol Guldur. And, man, did they go full bore with Galadriel's water element when she stepped up and wrecked the hell out of Sauron's shade and the spectres of the Nine.

 

This was hands-down the best thing about the whole film. 

[Joe]

I liked it. Of course, I'm a sucker for a good sword fight. Not the best movie ever, not the best sword fights ever, but all right. Could do with a serious editing, though. And less slow mo. Seriously, I bet that at least 15 minutes were done in slow mo, if not more. And a rethink of a couple of moments that had me laughing when I don't think that was the point.

 

But ultimately, all right. I've seen worse.

 

Hey, if you want a laugh, listen to the first few minutes of the Tolkien Professor trying to be polite about this movie. The episode released on the 18th. And then the moment when he outright admits Desolation was terrible. He really does want to love BO5A, but spends two hours eviscerating it. And yet he admits he'll go back and watch it again. Oh, the poor fellow. That's what you get when you have to teach a course on it. However, he pegs the worms as actually being mentioned in the Hobbit!

Edited December 27, 2014 by Joe

[Lantern7]

Saw "Battle" today. I thought it was okay, though I confess that I'm not a Tolkien nerd; otherwise, the padding would have bothered me. At least it was a short chapter, though guzzling on a medium soda was a mistake.

 

Man, Smaug went out like a punk, didn't he?

 

Forgive me . . .  but what were the Five Armies? I'm counting dwarfs, elves, the denizens of Lake-Town, orcs . . . what am I missing? Aside from the urine and coins trail leading to Alfred, I mean.

 

ETA: Here are the "Honest Trailers" for the first two movies. Good for a laugh, right?

[ikmccall]

I think the fifth army were the goblins who arrived towards the end if the battle

[Jediknight]

The Eagles were the 5th army.

[Joe]

For once we didn't get that moth being the advance guard of the eagles. So that's new.

[NoWillToResist]

I've watched the Lord of the Rings Trilogy and all three of the Hobbits, and I think The Battle of the Five Armies was the worst.

 

It hurts to say it but...I didn't really like this movie. It was very disappointing. Damn. :(  I had complaints about the first two but even those with their unnecessary padding and overlong "action" sequences weren't nearly as annoying as this. The less said about the painfully awful CGI in many of the shots, the better.

 

Did anyone else have an issue with...I don't know how to best describe this...the way the movie LOOKED? As soon as it started, I kind of reared back and was all "...what? Is the speed wrong or something?" Hubby had the same experience. It...I can't quite explain it. The tracking(?) was really weird and it looked like I was looking at people on a stage, rather than a movie. It was really off-putting. It took me, like, an HOUR to get used to it. I was sorry to see the end of Smaug. BC managed to OOZE malice with just his voice.

 

Well, that was just one big battle scene wasn't it?

 

I better not see any dwarf/elf hybrids show up in D&D because of this trilogy, though. I honestly do not know why they put that storyline in at all. I'm a lady viewer and didn't need a romance story to keep me interested. That's not why I watch movies for the most part. (Also, this lady viewer has no interest in either reading or seeing 50 Shades of Grey... so there's that, too.)

 

But man do I love Martin Freeman. He's actually the only one that made me cry at the end when he was with Thorin. Martin Freeman's Bilbo is just... wonderful. I particularly liked when he got back to The Shire. "You know very well who I am Lobelia Sackville-Baggins! And those are MY spoons!!"

 

And for purely nerdy reasons that have nothing to do with being a Tolkein purist... I absolutely loved seeing Elrond, Saruman, Gandalf and Galadriel kicking ass at Dol Guldur. And, man, did they go full bore with Galadriel's water element when she stepped up and wrecked the hell out of Sauron's shade and the spectres of the Nine.

 

I still don't even quite understand what happened in this movie. Who was doing what and why and where this army or that army came from and what their respective goals were is murky to me. That, on top of the fact that I STILL DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF HALF THE FUCKING DWARVES is a big fail, IMO. Thorin, Balin, Fili and Kili are the ones I know. There's the one with the hat with lifted up ends, the old one with the tin cup hearing aid thing, another oldish one with some braids in his beard I think, and a slightly balding badass looking one...there may be others. I knew the names of ALL the quest members in LOTR and a fuckton of the supporting players as well, so what the hell happened with The Hobbit movies?

 

I was spoiled that Kili was going to die but I was most unimpressed that Kili died because he was trying to save Tauriel. Bah. I also don't like - realistic though it must be in most cases - that he died probably thinking that she was going to die next and that they were all totally fucked. I admit that I cried a bit when Tauriel was leaning over Kili's dead body though. I think EL did a good job conveying the pain of one left behind. Her innocent "why does it hurt so much?" gutted me. And Bilbo? Guh. Basically, I was crying from the moment he saw Thorin on the ground. I continued crying as Bilbo flew through all the stages of grief in two minutes. Well done, Martin Freeman. Jesus.

 

I found the whole 'dragon sickness' kind of confusing. Thorin was off his nut and gold-mad, unwilling to part with a single coin (and way to overuse the slo-mo for that BTW, Jackson) yet he GIVES Bilbo the mithril shirt? That shit is pretty fucking rare, no? Wouldn't that be awfully desired by a lot? Pretty sure his nephews wished they'd had it. Also pretty sure Thorin himself could've used it. Then, he's off in his gold floored room and just...magically snaps out of it? And a handful of dwarves somehow reinvigorates everyone to fight on and get a second wind? Really?

 

And in a world without cell phones, the internet, stalkerazzi and satellites, how did word get out so quickly about the death of Smaug? Not two days after his scaly ass came down, all these fucking soldiers from all over Middle Earth turned up to try and claim the mountain and its gold? A group of 13 took the better part of a year to arrive at Erebor yet three or four full-scale armies got there in a couple of days?

 

Is there a reason why Bilbo seemed to be able to break through for Thorin where everyone else failed? I think his voice was the last one cycling through Thorin's head before he broke out of the sickness, he gave the mithril shirt to Bilbo, and there were many times when the sickness' hold slipped and Thorin had honest interactions with Bilbo, and Thorin suspected his own kind of betrayal before Bilbo (an outsider). I have to give credit to Richard Armitage here because I could literally SEE the difference in Thorin's eyes between when he was under the thrall of the gold and when he was himself again.

 

I was willing to look past the eye-rolling nature of Azathog (or whatever the fuck the main bad guy's name was - amputee dude with a LEGO figurine's ability to snap on a different weapon to his stump) surviving his dip in the icy water. I was willing to look past him being able to stab Thorin's foot through the ice. What I cannot look past is him someone being able to defy all laws of physics and SMASH THROUGH the ice in an upwards trajectory from a prone position.

 

I need someone to please explain to me the nature of Galadriel because I simply do not understand. Girlfriend managed to...do something...which essentially banished Sauron's essence or whateverthefuck off to the East. What was that? And why couldn't she have used any of that power to help in other battles? I am bothered by this shit with Gandalf all the time too. He rarely uses his magic at all even though a bit here and there could totally have saved lots of lives. What's up with this? They are clearly on one side of the battle, so they can't even claim Swiss non-involvement. Why won't they help more?

 

And on that note: FUCK THE EAGLES. I am sick to death of those assholes. It was bad enough when they turned up at the 11th hour of the final LOTR movie and I sat there slack-jawed "wait, there are massive, magical eagles who are against Sauron's forces? Why didn't they just fly Frodo to Mount Doom in the first place?". But they turned up at the end of the first Hobbit movie (again, is there a reason they couldn't have taken them any closer to Erebor?) and they turn up again here, almost always at the very end of the shitstorm and help turn the tide. Where are these lazy fuckers when shit hits the fan in the first place?

[Joe]

I hate to say it, but the book holds the answers to many of your questions. And it's a good read, too! Except Galadriel. That was surprising.

[ribboninthesky1]

I saw this several days ago, and was underwhelmed.  The third movie was completely unnecessary, and overall, I think The Hobbit trilogy just didn't have the same emotional resonance and epic stakes for me that LOTR did.  Yes, the dwarves wanted to reclaim their home, okay.  I wasn't especially sympathetic to the cause, but once that was done, the movie really could have ended. 

 

I didn't particularly care that Thorin, Kili, and Fili died.  I didn't care about Tauriel and Kili's "romance," and just when I was less resentful of her presence and appreciated her strength, she's essentially damseled.  Plus, I didn't think the actors had much chemistry - Cate Blanchett and Ian McKellen did much more with much less, in that regard.  

 

There was no string of genuine friendship that resonated for me so, hard as they tried, I didn't buy Bilbo and Thorin's friendship. Dragon sickness or not, he basically left Bilbo to fend for himself against a dragon, and then wouldn't let him leave despite Bilbo trying to tell him that they needed to get out of there. By the time Thorin got a clue, I didn't care about the cavalry coming.  Plus, the way Thorin died was so silly and drawn out, it was unintentionally amusing. Bless Richard Armitage - he did the best he could with a rather thankless role. 

 

Even Gandalf annoyed me throughout the trilogy.  Don't know about the books, but in these films, he seems to be the one to summon the eagles.  Why he waits until the 11th hour, I'll never know.

 

The only characters I truly respected and cared about were Bilbo and Bard.  I was more impressed with Bard's young daughters than Tauriel.  I'm glad Bard's family survived.  And while I appreciated the Elf/Wizard vs Sauron showdown, it didn't feel quite right to me.  Perhaps because of what we know is to come.             

 

After watching all three films, I really think it could have been one long film vs three.  There was a lot of filler, especially in this one. I know it's assumed most people don't like sit in a theater for more than two hours, but for a tighter story arc, I'd gladly have sat for one three-hour film.  Ah well, Time Warner made their money.    

[briochetwist]

Did anyone else have an issue with...I don't know how to best describe this...the way the movie LOOKED? As soon as it started, I kind of reared back and was all "...what? Is the speed wrong or something?" Hubby had the same experience. It...I can't quite explain it. The tracking(?) was really weird and it looked like I was looking at people on a stage, rather than a movie. It was really off-putting. It took me, like, an HOUR to get used to it. I was sorry to see the end of Smaug. BC managed to OOZE malice with just his voice.

 

I know!  I wrote about that way at the beginning of the thread and since nobody mentioned anything, I thought it was just me.  But it was weird, wasn't it?  It looked like larping in a field, people re-enacting a play, and it was like not really watching a movie.  It was crazy!  I never got used to it and it ruined the whole movie for me.  Well, that, and lots of other things..

[AimingforYoko]

I know!  I wrote about that way at the beginning of the thread and since nobody mentioned anything, I thought it was just me.  But it was weird, wasn't it?  It looked like larping in a field, people re-enacting a play, and it was like not really watching a movie.  It was crazy!  I never got used to it and it ruined the whole movie for me.  Well, that, and lots of other things..

Did you guys see it in the 3-D HFR (high frame rate) format?

[Lantern7]

Thinking of you guys and the Hobbit trilogy . . .

[briochetwist]

Did you guys see it in the 3-D HFR (high frame rate) format?

 

Yeah, that's the one I saw.  Bad move, I think...

[Jeebus Cripes]

That, on top of the fact that I STILL DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF HALF THE FUCKING DWARVES is a big fail, IMO. Thorin, Balin, Fili and Kili are the ones I know. There's the one with the hat with lifted up ends, the old one with the tin cup hearing aid thing, another oldish one with some braids in his beard I think, and a slightly balding badass looking one...there may be others. I knew the names of ALL the quest members in LOTR and a fuckton of the supporting players as well, so what the hell happened with The Hobbit movies?

 

This! I still have no idea who more than half of those dwarves are.

[raven]

The basic issue with this trilogy is that Jackson erred by making it the dwarves' story, when it is Bilbo's.  With the exception of Thorin, the dwarves are not fleshed out in the book either.  It looks like PJ tried to expand them more with the dwarf/elf love story with a little bit of showing the animosity between the two races thrown in, and it didn't really work.  He tried to make the dwarves comic relief, which doesn't work either with the tone of the story.  They are supposed to be proud, stubborn, strong, etc.   Since the dwarves don't make an effective appearance in the LOTR, we don't feel invested in their future there.

 

It may have suited his purpose better to show the society they built that the dragon destroyed, but PJ was too wrapped up in action I think.  Really, with the exception of the final battle, most of the action centers around Bilbo and his own growth; finding his adventure loving self (I believe he continued having occasional adventures even after returning to Bag-End, and was regarded as an oddity).  PJ should have concentrated more on the relationship between Bilbo and Thorin, which even in the book is a bit of a head scratcher, as Thorin doesn't treat him all that well either.  

 

Though Richard Armitage did his best - I thought he did a great job with the death scene - there's no reason shown why this band would continue to follow him when it was obvious they were needed in the battle.  

 

The activity at Dol Goldur was pointless (and the CGI distracting, as through the whole movie) and WHY do we keep seeing shots of Galadriel's feet?  I thought it odd in LOTR and it is odd here.  

 

The whole Kili/Tauriel thing was so silly - she runs up yelling his name (way to distract him in battle) then he does the same (ditto).  PJ should have concentrated more on Beorn, whose appearance helped turn the tide of the battle.

 

Freeman and Armitage did very well and their last scene together was moving, but I was annoyed to not hear Thorin say "child of the kindly West". /Tolkien nerd.

[Bruinsfan]

I still don't even quite understand what happened in this movie. Who was doing what and why and where this army or that army came from and what their respective goals were is murky to me. That, on top of the fact that I STILL DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF HALF THE FUCKING DWARVES is a big fail, IMO. Thorin, Balin, Fili and Kili are the ones I know. There's the one with the hat with lifted up ends, the old one with the tin cup hearing aid thing, another oldish one with some braids in his beard I think, and a slightly balding badass looking one...there may be others. I knew the names of ALL the quest members in LOTR and a fuckton of the supporting players as well, so what the hell happened with The Hobbit movies?

I don't think the blame for that can be laid upon the filmmakers. I used to reread The Hobbit all the time, yet when I try to make a mental list of the dwarves it ends up going Thorin, Balin and Dwalin, Fili and Kili, Bifur and Bombur, Oin and Gloin, Comet and Cupid, Donner and Blitzen.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

The third movie was completely unnecessary

 

You wanted the saga ended with Smaug flying out to get revenge?

[Joe]

So, this is handy. Dwarf flowchart! Know your dwarves. I suppose I appreciate Peter Jackson putting all thirteen in, but in hindsight there was only enough material for maybe three of them. Thorin the leader, Balin the advisor, you could combine Kili and Fili into one role.

[ribboninthesky1]

You wanted the saga ended with Smaug flying out to get revenge?

 

The Smaug/Laketown battle was so brief, I don't know why it wasn't a bookend in the second movie.  Once Smaug was killed, there was nothing to stop Thorin from reclaiming his home, and the rest of the movie felt kind of pointless.

 

The basic issue with this trilogy is that Jackson erred by making it the dwarves' story, when it is Bilbo's. 

 

I haven't read the book, so thanks for elaborating.  I likely would have found it a much more interesting trilogy if Jackson had taken this approach.  Or, as I referenced in my earlier post, it probably could have been one long(er) film instead of three.   

[millennium]

Considering how much I hated how much of a dick Thorin was before he even got "gold fever", I didn't care at all that he died, I almost rooted for it.  Plus, his death is canon and all...

 

I blame Richard Armitage, in part.   He doesn't seem to possess the range necessary to make one empathize with a character who possesses both noble and dickish qualities.   I first encountered Armitage in MI-5 (or Spooks), where he played the character of Lucas North, a MI-5 agent who is captured and sentenced to 8 years of soul-crushing confinement in a Russian prison.  When North is finally returned to London, he is weighted down by feelings of being betrayed by the service, resentment, etc., even as he tries to fulfill his duties as an MI-5 agent.   He should have been a sympathetic character, but I always thought he was a dick. 

[millennium]

And on that note: FUCK THE EAGLES. I am sick to death of those assholes. It was bad enough when they turned up at the 11th hour of the final LOTR movie and I sat there slack-jawed "wait, there are massive, magical eagles who are against Sauron's forces? Why didn't they just fly Frodo to Mount Doom in the first place?". But they turned up at the end of the first Hobbit movie (again, is there a reason they couldn't have taken them any closer to Erebor?) and they turn up again here, almost always at the very end of the shitstorm and help turn the tide. Where are these lazy fuckers when shit hits the fan in the first place?

 

But you can't pull those threads, because then you start noticing other threads dangling, like "If the earth-eaters could burrow through a whole mountain range, why the hell did they stop a mile OUTSIDE Erebor?   Why not tunnel right into the belly of Thorin's gold hoard?

 

And after Thranduil tells Legolas to go find Strider ... why did it take Legolas 20 years to get around to it? 

Edited January 3, 2015 by millennium

[millennium]

What I cannot look past is him someone being able to defy all laws of physics and SMASH THROUGH the ice in an upwards trajectory from a prone position.

 

 

It was the same fuzzy physics which allowed Legolas to use plummeting chunks of masonry as stepping stones to propel himself in an upwards direction.

[millennium]

The basic issue with this trilogy is that Jackson erred by making it the dwarves' story, when it is Bilbo's. 

 

 

I was disappointed by Bilbo's diminished role.   Armitage was clearly the star of this film (unfortunately) even though (in my opinion) the fellow who played Bilbo was the superior actor.

 

All this movie accomplished was to make me long for the sense of wonder that the first trilogy bestowed upon me.  I wanted to feel again the emotions that welled up at the end of Return of the King, when the credits roll and Annie Lennox sings "Into the West."

 

There was none of that.

[Jediknight]

It was bad enough when they turned up at the 11th hour of the final LOTR movie and I sat there slack-jawed "wait, there are massive, magical eagles who are against Sauron's forces? Why didn't they just fly Frodo to Mount Doom in the first place?".

The quest to destroy The Ring was a secret, flying a bunch of Eagles into Mordor would have let Sauron know.  Hell Sauron didn't even it was Frodo that had The Ring.  Also, they'd be flying right into the middle of Sauron's army, so the Nazgul, and orc archers would be gunning for them.  While The Eagles did fantastic at The Black Gate, let's see how well they do with individuals on their backs, against the Nazgul and their fell-beasts.

 

There's also The Ring having a will of it's own.  It would have found a way to fall and make it's way to Sauron, remember Frodo wore it around his neck for that reason.  The Ring would have also corrupted The Eagles.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Jediknight