Unspoiled Speculation: Flash of Genius

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Long time between tonight and S2 premiere.... but I really think that what not saving mom didn't do, trying to stop the black hole will do instead.

 

Either everything changes for everyone, or just Barry - ie, he runs himself into an alternate universe.

 

All I ask is we don't get a reset on S1;  or, just some majorly minor changes to make it seem "different", yet mostly the same.

Edited May 20, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Actionmage]

If they decide to bring Eddie back at some point, having Eddie's body land somewhen where there is better medical tech could be the work-around. You know, it could even have  the brilliance of

actually ensuring that Eobard somehow is born. If Eddie, being dead, is saved in the future, he could be said to be "reborn" and call himself Eobard. Whether he actually becomes Reverse Flash or not, he only has to live long enough to have a male child to carry on the Thawne legacy. Maybe Eddie didn't make a mark in the past- truthfully- because he ended up in the future. That would also make the weird years/great-great ancestor gap make more sense.

 

I put stuff in spoilers because I don't know what the EPs are thinking, but I have watched TV before. Also, this may have been covered in the comics, but I don't read Flash, so I'm not up-to-date on the story this season was based on. I don't want to ruin anyone's fun. It's only speculation, but it's educated speculation based on decades of watching too much TV and reading comics.

[phoenics]

I actually think Eddie isn't dead. Or I think that the version of him that lives is unable to have children?

Eddie got sucked into the wormhole. The time machine got sucked into the wormhole.

The time machine with COBALT panels.

Will they merge and Eddie becomes Cobalt Blue?

That's what I think might happen.

Edited May 20, 2015 by phoenics

[Sakura12]

I guess Eddie's middle name could be Malcolm. 

[nksarmi]

Ok Eddie has to live or this reality is changed because the way Barry becomes Flash will have changed. This would also change Arrow.

They have to reset this somehow.

[Jediknight]

My speculation for the season premiere.

 

- Barry obviously stops the singularity, but gets a glimpse of what would have happened if he saved his mother.

 

- A certain Legend of Tomorrow saves Barry as he falls, and reveals herself to the world.

 

- Since they had mentioned the Ferris pilot that disappeared, Hal Jordan plays a role in stopping the destruction.  This pushes forth on DCTV's Justice League, and towards Barry being a founding member.  Okay, this is mainly a hope.

 

- Eddie is revealed to still be alive.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Jediknight

[Trini]

The show has time travel, so it would be really easy reset things -- I hope they leave most things alone though, we don't need to re-live season 1. But Eddie, while I like the character and actor, has literally been a plot device this entire season, so I don't think these writers are committed to doing more with him. But the possibility is definitely there for him to return somehow.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Trini

[Sakura12]

I really doubt they got the rights to Hal Jordan. I think he'll just be an Easter egg nod, like Ted Kord who they also couldn't get. 

[driedfruit]

It'd be cool if they can bring Carol, even if briefly. 

[Agent Dark]

I've seen people suggest it elsewhere, but John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick from Earth-2 would be amazing if they going for the Multiverse concept.

[Trini]

I cringe a little at the thought of this show doing multiple timelines/dimensions. It's really tricky to pull off, and it can get confusing especially for casual viewers. It's one of those things that really needs to be well planned and thought out, and I don't know how much of that the writers will do since that's not really the main focus of the show.

 

One show with a really good multiple dimensions theme was Fringe, and even that fell apart (for me) mid-Season 4.

[tarotx]

I think they will be in Alternate universes now. With only Barry and most of the Alternate Ciscos knowing at first. It could be cool Being in different verses throughout the first half of season 2. Barry can be trying to return To his true timeline. Eventually we need a set timeline so the other characters can be active in their own lives.

I do want this to end Arrow crossovers though. I mean except for the big mid season Special event. Arrow needs never to be affected by the multiverses in a big way. They can barely keep track now. Have them mingle (if they must) on LOT but only to a small degree There too.

I want there to always be a reverse Flash looming. Berry will realize he can't run from whatever the event to cause the hate. He just has to deal with the Consequences. Maybe work to repair the hate instead of change the past or mess with the future trying to prevent whatever causes different men from turning into that alternate verses Reverse Flash Disguised as Wells.

[FurryFury]

I cringe a little at the thought of this show doing multiple timelines/dimensions. It's really tricky to pull off, and it can get confusing especially for casual viewers. It's one of those things that really needs to be well planned and thought out, and I don't know how much of that the writers will do since that's not really the main focus of the show.

 

One show with a really good multiple dimensions theme was Fringe, and even that fell apart (for me) mid-Season 4.

I'm actually rewatching Fringe right now and I'm dreading season 4. I've dropped watching during that season when I had watched it first, but I do think that at its height, it was 10 times the show The Flash could ever aspire to be. Still, it hurts that such a terrific show could ever lose its way so much. 

 

I don't think The Flash will ever start to seriously deal with parallel universes. In its core, it's still a part of The CW DC universe. It may flirt with the idea, but it will never really care about it, IMHO.

[Sakura12]

I liked Season 4 of Fringe. It was Season 5 I struggled to finish.

 

But I agree, the CW and these writers don't have the stones to really follow through on a real alt-world story. They can barley deal with the stuff they do bring up. Their consequences are always very minimal or they just kill off a character for shock value hoping we'll be thinking about that instead of anything else. 

[Jediknight]

I really doubt they got the rights to Hal Jordan. I think he'll just be an Easter egg nod, like Ted Kord who they also couldn't get. 

You never know.  Who would have thought that Arrow would have gotten the permission to use Harley Quinn?

 

With my prediction of Hawkgirl saving Barry, I think we'll see more of the world loving superheroes.  We know Central City loves The Flash, and I think we'll get more of the public loving the heroes instead of being afraid.  The public will see Barry and the heroes like Cisco put it "I think people like Barry are the hope for saving people like us."  Heck at some point perhaps Cisco mentions wanting to team with the guy in Metropolis, and Caitlin even says Barry should form a group.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Jediknight

[FurryFury]

I liked Season 4 of Fringe. It was Season 5 I struggled to finish.

 

Can't agree with that, I was hugely, seriously hugely invested into late s2/the whole of s3 (still remember constantly monitoring the ratings thread on TWOP), but s4 was a terrible letdown. I never really cared for Peter that much (he was OK but the weakest character of the main trio, imho), so basically getting rid of everyone but him for the majority of the season was a really bad decision. And then they killed AltLinc whom I loved so much, I couldn't deal with it. Not sure how I'll deal with it on my rewatch, tbh.

 

Sorry for offtopic. 

 

I do think they need to bring the Legends team to deal with the fallout of the wormhole. Could be a great sneak peak for the new show. And then later they could show the same even from their point of view, that would be cool.

[Sakura12]

I wouldn't consider that getting to use Harley Quinn, they never mentioned her name or showed her face. That was another Easter Egg. If you mean we can see the back of Hal Jordan's head, then yeah that's possible. But actually getting him on the show when they couldn't get Ted Kord, less possible. 

[Trini]

 

I do think they need to bring the Legends team to deal with the fallout of the wormhole. Could be a great sneak peak for the new show. And then later they could show the same even from their point of view, that would be cool.

 

It might make sense, but I kinda don't want the Legends team to fix the wormhole. That series isn't even premiering until mid-season, also wouldn't it be weird to use the season premiere to launch the new show? (I wouldn't put it past them, though.) Would we have to wait for Legends to see the full resolution? They're going to be crossing over anyway, I just think they should wait until later.

 

------------

What if they actually have Jay Garrick Flash help undo the wormhole? They already hinted at him; maybe comes through the wormhole.

[bettername2come]

I wouldn't mind Snart and Hawkgirl having a role in it. Snart realizing the world ending is bad for business makes sense, and I don't see why Hawkgirl should be there if she doesn't do anything.

[Trini]

I don't know if he'll be full-on Vibe, but I'm sure they'll explore and expand Cisco's powers next season. I predict a Vibe vs. Pied Piper showdown.

 

Now Caitlyn I don't think they'll make her a villain, but I do think we'll see Alternate Caitlyn, AKA Killer Frost.

 

Definitely think a more powerful Grodd will be back; and maybe Weather Wizard.

[KirkB]

I'm not familiar with the character from the comics so I only have the show to go on. Unless they're expanded next season, what Cisco has for powers doesn't really amount to much that can really be used. He seems to have the ability to retain memories of alternate timelines. Even if the show is going to involve more temporal alterations in the future, that sort of limits his specialness to reminiscing with Barry about how things used to be.

Edited May 24, 2015 by KirkB

[Sakura12]

Cisco's Vibe powers can do more then remember alternate realities. He just discovered he's a meta, I'm sure the show will dive more into his other powers next season. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Maybe this belongs in the "wishlist" thread, but until things change and I then find Caitlyn unlikeable - I would prefer the main CS character does not become her villainous alter-ego (at least not for a few seasons down the road). 

 

I really like the core 'Flash team' of Barry-Caitlyn-Cisco, with a side of Dr Wells-Joe(& Iris) added in to form a solid support and assist group for Flash. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Trini]

I wonder how they're going to proceed with trying to get Henry out of jail now. They know who did it but they have no legal evidence. Where can that storyline even go at this point?

 

Yeah, this is one of the storylines I'm worried about, too. I was hoping it would be resolved by the finale, but alas. Especially since Eobard's erasure didn't affect the present characters -- apparently.

 

I really hope the writers work out some time travel rules (or at least guidelines!) for next season; as noted in the finale thread, time travel can get pretty nonsensical pretty fast. Not that every single thing has to make sense (this is a fantasy show), but they've already shown us two forms of time travel as it is. One where a person can physically travel to another point in time; and another where time is reversed (from "Out of Time").

[Chip]

I really hope the writers work out some time travel rules (or at least guidelines!) for next season

 

Me too! I have a feeling that Legends of Tomorrow will end up being the source of standard laws of time travel in this universe.

[Trini]

From the Anticipation thread:

 

... Just a few things I really hope they include at some point:

• The Flash Museum.  Just 'cause. :)
• The Rogues not only teaming up, but hanging out together when they're not trying to kill Flash.  (I always thought that kind of camaraderie was what set Flash's villains apart from the rest.)
• A Mark Hamill cameo in The Trickster's origin story.
• Wally West.  He doesn't need to become Kid Flash (at least, not right away....), but I'd still like to see him in the show.
• At least one crossover with Arrow each season.
• Two words:  Cosmic.  Treadmill.

 

Hey, 5 out of 6 ain't bad, Crazed Spruce!

Edited June 21, 2015 by Trini

[Maverick]

So I've thought since the latter part of season 1 that Henry knows something about Flash/metahumans/Wells or some combination thereof. I'm now wondering if someone from the future--maybe Barry himself--visited Henry and filled him in on something. Maybe he knows he knows he has to be away from Barry to protect hom and once he got out of jail he had to bolt.

[Lady Calypso]

I think that this whole time paradox not being explained has to mean something. I have been thinking about how time hasn't been messed up due to Eddie's death, and I do think it's most likely just the writers not wanting to deal with the entirety of time paradoxes and time travel this early. But....what if Eddie isn't dead? Maybe he's alive in another universe; maybe he temporarily died but then was revived in another universe and that's why time isn't as messed up. My brain is trying to wrap my head around how that would work, but before I give myself a headache, that's what I came up with. I'll figure the logistics of it later, but for now, that's what I think.

[Sandman]

My current speculation is that Snart is actually Francine West's son by Michael Ironside's character, and thus Iris's half-brother.

[Trini]

I'm guessing that when Cisco becomes full-on Vibe -with costume and everything- they'll let Valdes cut his hair.

[bettername2come]

I'm guessing that when Cisco becomes full-on Vibe -with costume and everything- they'll let Valdes cut his hair.

I have mixed feelings about this idea. Although I'm pretty sure they'll give him some scruff too, since he's already got it on the Cisco tumblr.

[Trini]

Wait, so which is it, Zoom? Do you want the Flash dead or "fattened up"? Because what if one of the metahumans actually had killed Barry?

[bettername2come]

Wait, so which is it, Zoom? Do you want the Flash dead or "fattened up"? Because what if one of the metahumans actually had killed Barry?

Zoom is basically a bored audience member. "God, Barry, the answer is to go faster. You always just have to go faster and you win. Now get faster so I can steal your speed."

[Trini]

Soooo... with Patty gone, the show has the budget to get Henry back, right?

[Trini]

With the ratings bump, they have to be thinking about visiting Earth-2 again. I assume that all the breaches will be closed by the end of the season, so how will they go back?

If they don't really want anyone from Earth-1 crossing over, maybe it can just be a Vibe vision.

Or, somehow have Barry use the speed force to create a portal/breach; but only he would cross over.

Or, the good ol' "Ooops, we missed a breech" excuse.

Or someone from Earth-2 creates a breach.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Trini

[netlyon2]

I think all of those are viable options or they may decide to leave the Star Labs breach open for [reasons].  We also know that there have been "breachers" from other universes, so there may be some established science that hasn't been developed yet on Earth 1.

[Maverick]

 This is a comic book show.  Nothing is permanent.   Even having your timeline wiped out doesn't stop someone from popping up.

[Rai]

Ok so, on our earth, Jay Garrick has been renamed Hunter Zolomon. Hunter Zolomon in the comics IS Zoom, so clearly, there's a very weird Jay/Zoom connection going on.  I refuse to look up any casting, but they might pull a Darth Vader with the costume/actor anyway with Zoom.

Also, for a mo', I thought the man in the iron mask might be a lost Legionnaire, but that's probably not the case.

Ahhhhhhhhh! Mystery to solve!

[ParadoxLost]

With the ratings bump, they have to be thinking about visiting Earth-2 again. I assume that all the breeches will be closed by the end of the season, so how will they go back?

If they don't really want anyone from Earth-1 crossing over, maybe it can just be a Vibe vision.

Or, somehow have Barry use the speed force to create a portal/breech; but only he would cross over.

Or, the good ol' "Ooops, we missed a breech" excuse.

Or someone from Earth-2 creates a breech.

 

They are definitely going back.  They basically admitted they would with Barry's declaration of I'll return for you man in the iron mask.  Then they doubled down on it with Jay getting pulled through the breech.

 

BTW, I don't know why but every time someone show ups in a mask my first reflex is always 'Its Eddie, he's back from being snuffed out of existence.'

[Trini]

I really want Zoom to be Eddie, actually. It'd be a better way of using Rick Cosnett than last season.

[Rai]

I have been wondering if there's an Earth-2 Eddie and where he is.

[bmoore4026]

I have a feeling the Man in the Iron Mask is Eddie.  Just a hunch.

[Lady Calypso]

I have a feeling the Man in the Iron Mask is Eddie.  Just a hunch.

 

Ooo...actually, I had briefly just thought about this before coming on here. It's possible, and it would fill in gaps that were left because of tonight's episode. I'd be game for that happening.

[Samsnee]

Man in the mask has to be Jay Garrick. The Jay we've seen has to be an imposter.

[Trini]

But the Jay we've seen knew how to do the helmet trick and throw lightning. Also it would be a re-tread of last year with Wells/Reverse Flash; so I hope not.

 

By this time last season (actually earlier), we definitely knew the identity of Reverse Flash, I'm disappointed they've teased Zoom for so long. On the other hand, maybe the writers only recently decided who it would be.

[Maverick]

 The actor that plays Wally was listed in the credits but Wally didn't appear.  I'm assuming it's Earth-2 Wally in the cage.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I believe the Man in the Iron Mask is Jay Garrick, or someone extremely close to him.

 

 

Oh shoot.  I get it now.  Sort of, I think. 

 

Zoom didn't steal Jay Garrick's speed, but the stuff he's got him wearing in the cage is dampening/cutting off his powers somehow.  The Jay Garrick (or doppelganger from another Earth) that was with TF didn't have speed beforehand, until Velocity-6.  V-6 was really killing him, but Caitlin was fixing it with V-9.

 

That, or Jay is unwillingly working with Zoom to keep whoever is caged alive... very similarly to what we saw with Wells/Jessie.

[Kaoteek]

I'm thinking TPTB are going to do what they've done in s1 : pick and choose bits of comic-book canon, and mix them together in a way that will render most of our guesses pointless.

 

For instance : real Jay is clearly under the iron mask ; there's also The Rival - Jay's Reverse Flash, who in the comic developed Velocity 9, a temporary serum to mimic Jay's abilities, and who's often depicted as wearing Jay's costume, only darker ; there's Hunter Solomon ; there's Zoom ; there's always the possibility of a Reverse Flash from another Earth : if someone (Zoom/Rival) got to him before he could go back in time, then maybe that someone got his face-changing technology, and is now posing as Jay ; there's also the Black Flash, who looks just like this show's Zoom ; and of course, Earth 3, 4, 5, and so on, which could lead to any combo of any incarnation of Flash's dopplegangers...

 

Right now, I'm guessing we're gonna have two baddies : some sort of version of the Rival (who's been posing as Jay with Team Flash), and Zoom. And those two are probably closely tied together, maybe even the two sides of the same coin, split in two during Velocity serum tests. Which would make Zoom a Black Flash-type entity, just a hungry force feeling a constant need for speed, and having no real secret identity.

[Rai]

To add fuel to the Jay fire -- that WWII tap code?  Jay Garrick was created during WWII in actuality.  I doubt they'll say he's from the 1940s on this show, but that kind of meta shout-out is the kind of thing comics writers live for.  Having the Golden Age Flash use a code from WWII is totally that kind of allusion they love to make.

[Glory]

Right now, I'm guessing we're gonna have two baddies : some sort of version of the Rival (who's been posing as Jay with Team Flash), and Zoom. And those two are probably closely tied together, maybe even the two sides of the same coin, split in two during Velocity serum tests. Which would make Zoom a Black Flash-type entity, just a hungry force feeling a constant need for speed, and having no real secret identity.

I'd actually really like this. Because it would make Zooms apparent lack of drive for anything but more speed a relevant plot point and make sense with everything we've seen of Zoom so far.

 

I'm unsure of how Hunter fits in. 

 

My batshit theory right now is that Jay Garrick is really twins on both Earths. Perhaps Jay got speed and became the good flash and his twin brother didn't. So his twin brother creates Velocity 6 or whatever to try to be a speedster like his brother and it doesn't work. So real Jay Garrick is in Zoom's cage and twin Jay Garrick (who didn't get speed naturally and is now dying of V6) is the one romancing Caitlin and potentially helping Zoom so that twin Jay Garrick can become a real speedster. Evil twin Jay Garrick then shows Caitlin Hunter Zoloman to throw her off the scent leaving out the fact that Hunter has a twin brother. 

 

I don't know. With this show, it could be anything.