Winner Edit vs. Loser Edit: Discuss Amongst Yourselves

[waving feather]

Does the winner usually get the most air time or confessionals time? If yes, David has this in the bag.

[SVNBob]

Depends on the season and any other "characters" thereon. 

There's been a few where the winner seems to come out of nowhere, airtime-wise.  The best example of that would be Natalie in Samoa who got minuscule airtime when compared to the "big" character of that season.  And as I recall (from the count created by a poster on an old forum), his confessional count was in the high double digits, possibly even low triples.  But she had less than 30.

[KimberStormer]

The numbers I have heard are 11 out of 32 winners got the most confessionals.  (Of those 11, Kim Spradlin was the only woman, which is kind of crazy.)  So nope, I don't think David has this in the bag necessarily.

I would bet almost all of the Sprint Fan Favorites got the most confessionals though!

[ByaNose]

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

The numbers I have heard are 11 out of 32 winners got the most confessionals.  (Of those 11, Kim Spradlin was the only woman, which is kind of crazy.)  So nope, I don't think David has this in the bag necessarily.

I would bet almost all of the Sprint Fan Favorites got the most confessionals though!

Wow! Kim is only woman. I can see Natalie White getting little air time and I can also see Michele Fitzgerald with the "most" out of nowhere winner confessionals. That said, with the stats of 11 out of 32 aren't that greats odds in my theory of the most confessionals. Okay, Sunday wins. LOL!!!

[Lamb18]

I forgot to mention Ken in episode 2. He had a confessional about being the socially awkward guy who stuttered and talked funny and how Survivor could give him social confidence. He and David bonded, too.

[thehepburn]

11 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

The numbers I have heard are 11 out of 32 winners got the most confessionals.  (Of those 11, Kim Spradlin was the only woman, which is kind of crazy.)  So nope, I don't think David has this in the bag necessarily.

I would bet almost all of the Sprint Fan Favorites got the most confessionals though!

I just did a quick count and 11 out of 32 is correct.

 

As for Sprint fave, James, Ozzy and Jane (S21) are 3 that won w/o most confessionals off the top of my head.

[Oholibamah]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think the Sprint award is basically 'most favorable edit in the weeks leading up to the voting'.  

Case/point: Brenda was less than 1% behind Malcolm in Caramoan despite being ignored the entire season until her boot episode.

[ByaNose]

41 minutes ago, Oholibamah said:

Case/point: Brenda was less than 1% behind Malcolm in Caramoan despite being ignored the entire season until her boot episode.

I'm lovvvvvvvved Brenda. Okay, move along nothing to see here. LOL!!

This season I really like Brett the most.  He just seems like such a nice & loyal guy. I actually thought that he, Sunday & Chris would roll to the Final 3. Maybe, 2 out of 3?

[Rachel RSL]

I'm on the fence when it comes to Brett. I absolutely *hated* the way he mocked David's anxiety last TC but I recently re-watched the episode where Hannah had her panic attack and Brett, who was sitting out the comp with her, was really sweet and trying to comfort her. So I think right now I classify him as a nice guy with asshole tendencies.

[Hanahope]

On 12/5/2016 at 4:19 AM, KimberStormer said:

The numbers I have heard are 11 out of 32 winners got the most confessionals.  (Of those 11, Kim Spradlin was the only woman, which is kind of crazy.)  So nope, I don't think David has this in the bag necessarily.

But how many winners were within 5-10 confessionals of the person with the most? And Survivor is notorious for limiting women's confessionals, even when the win.  As pointed out, only 1 out 11 of the winners with the most confessionals was a woman.  So many times, when a woman wins, Survivor puts on the story about how the man lost (see, e.g. Natalie v. Russell), 

It certainly would seem from the story being told by the editors, that its an Adam v. David ending, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Hannah in the hunt too, since she's been featured often.  I would think that Will, Bret and Sunday are long shots to win.  Jay, I expect to make it at least near the end, but I don't think he'll win either.

I don't think Hannah will win.  If she makes it to the end, the jurors are likely to discount her being there because she was essentially saved twice by others, not by her own work.

[Lamb18]

Just to add: when I was counting confessionals in episode 1, it was just confessionals by the people still in the game. I didn't count the eliminated people.  Of eliminated people, I think Taylor and Chris had the most. Maybe because the editors thought they were good "opposites" in the Millennial vs. GenX divide.

[simplyme]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I don't think Hannah will win.  If she makes it to the end, the jurors are likely to discount her being there because she was essentially saved twice by others, not by her own work.

Er... How are you figuring this? There were two votes where Hannah was targeted (and she was targetted partially because Zeke was angry at her, partially because David had an idol or was thought to have an idol, and partially because Ken is a Survivor moron). Hannah didn't lose either of them. No one "saved" her. One TC was a tie and went to rocks. The other one Adam used his idol to make sure she was safe... but I'm sure they all figured out pretty quickly that it was 5-4 for Zeke to go home. Hannah was safe without that idol play.

I think people are likely to discount Hannah because she has panic attacks and giggles, she's awkward as heck, and she's female, but she hasn't required any white knights. She wouldn't even have been the one targeted last time if Ken hadn't freaked out.

[MissEwa]

I love Hannah but to be fair, she wouldn't have been targeted the first time she was if *she* hadn't freaked out. 

I think Hannah has a really good sense of the game - her strategy is sound and she's correctly picked herself as the target twice - but maybe not the emotional fortitude to always follow through successfully. But I don't think the fact that other players have gone to rocks to keep her or played idols for her is a negative - it's a sign that she's played a good enough social game that people were willing to do that. 

Based on the edit, I wouldn't be shocked if she won. She's not a front-runner, edit-wise, but I feel like she's had a enough confessionals about the game and her place in it and her growth as a player that it wouldn't come from nowhere. 

[ByaNose]

When I think of Hannah I just think of PANIC. She is always in a look of fear and PANIC. Although, it's usually at Tribal Council that she is like this. Before that, she is a gamer and seems quite confident. I guess she doesn't like being grilled by Jeff. LOL!!!

[peachmangosteen]

I completely agree with you on Hannah, @MissEwa. 

I could easily see Hannah as the winner. She actually has gotten a lot of airtime, both of the human and gameplay variety, and since she's a woman it doesn't mean much that there are other (male) players who have gotten more airtime then her.

I'm still feeling like there's a decent chance anyone (besides Sunday lol) left could win and I love that!

Edited December 7, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

I had been meaning to look at the confessional count on Sucks, but kept forgetting to. I finally looked at it. Here are the counts for the remaining players:

David: 46 (Avg. 3.83. No eps with 0 confessionals.)

Adam: 38 (Avg. 3.17. No eps with 0 confessionals. Tied for the record this season for most confessionals in 1 ep with 10.)

Jay: 37 (Avg. 3.08. No eps with 0 confessionals. Tied for the record this season for most confessionals in 1 ep with 10.)

Hannah: 21 (Avg. 1.75. 3 eps with 0 confessionals.)

Bret: 17 (Avg. 1.42. 4 eps with 0 confessionals.)

Ken: 17 (Avg. 1.42. 4 eps with 0 confessionals.)

Will: 16 (Avg. 1.33. 5 eps with 0 confessionals.)

Sunday: 10 (Avg. .83. 5 eps with 0 confessionals.)

If I'm looking at just this to determine a winner than it paints a very different picture. I would say David is almost certainly the winner and that Hannah, Bret, Ken, Will, and Sunday have absolutely no chance. But the confessional counts aren't really great at determining winners, especially if the winner is a woman.

Edited December 7, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[thehepburn]

Well, if ppl think that Hannah could possibly a winner, then the editors did a good job. I guess. She noticably had bad experiences in her first 2 TCs that we saw the aftermath each time. One subtle indicator of the winner is that they are usually the one who correctly votes the ouster the most in any season. I believe that that person is David last time I checked this season.

And this is not editing but if you check the exit interviews, everyone saw Hannah as a goat to take to the end. 

[Hanahope]

15 hours ago, simplyme said:

Er... How are you figuring this? There were two votes where Hannah was targeted (and she was targetted partially because Zeke was angry at her, partially because David had an idol or was thought to have an idol, and partially because Ken is a Survivor moron). Hannah didn't lose either of them. No one "saved" her. One TC was a tie and went to rocks. The other one Adam used his idol to make sure she was safe... but I'm sure they all figured out pretty quickly that it was 5-4 for Zeke to go home. Hannah was safe without that idol play.

Because the first TC, she was essentially 'saved' because Jessica opted to take a chance and vote out Zeke, resulting in rocks.  So in essence, Jessica saved Hannah. The second time, she was perceived to be saved by Adam's idol, even though as it turned out, it wasn't necessary.  For the moment, at least, the jury believes Hannah was saved by the idol (and unless Will admits that he also voted for Zeke, everyone else believes it too).  And the reason she was saved, was really for numbers, not necessarily because she's a good player, or has any real deep ties with the alliance.  It is obvious, even to the jury, that there were two sides battling for dominance, and David/Adam's side needed Hannah for numbers.  We haven't seen anyone admit to Hannah being their "ride or die" or having a 'special alliance' (the way Jessica/Ken or Sunday/Jay appear to have).

Now it may also be true that people want Hannah to stick around because she's perceived as being a good goat, because her panicky attacks make her appear 'less deserving' or 'too quirky' or otherwise weird/awkward, and thus less likely to get the majority of votes.

[le bordel chaud]

Hannah winning would make no sense. I had Michele pegged as the winner early on last season from her edit (she was constantly inserted in places that made no logical sense), and it was just a matter of finding out how it would happen. I really thought she had no chance if she was against Aubry in the end, and then she wound up beating her anyway lol. That was a bad job by the storytellers. I can totally understand why Michele won, they just didn't do a good job at all of showing it.

I see no similar winner edit for Hannah at all. Especially as she will most likely have to beat 2 people. Maybe Sunday could have been one of those, but she's gone. Hannah has been much more integral to the storyline for sure, hence the increased airtime. I just don't see people wanting to vote for her at the end.

My gut says Adam is going to win and I've felt that way since week 3. I really hope I'm wrong cause I can't stand him.

Edited December 8, 2016 by delicatecutter

[LadyChatts]

After tonight, I'm sticking with David, Jay, or Adam (in that order).  I really can't see how any of the others can win.  If Adam wins, I really hope it isn't because he throws out there that his mom has cancer, and goes for the sympathy vote.  I do question if David will be well liked enough by the jury, if it has Chris, Bret, Sunday, and Zeke on there (assuming Bret doesn't make the final 3).  

[Trick Question]

I don't think Adam has a chance in hell of winning.  The show loves him since he seems genetically engineered to be the ideal Survivor superfan/big movez! type of player, and he's very good at narrating everything in his interviews.  But I get the sense that among the actual players, they all kind of see him as a weasel who will flip at a moment's notice.

Quote

After tonight, I'm sticking with David, Jay, or Adam (in that order).  I really can't see how any of the others can win.  If Adam wins, I really hope it isn't because he throws out there that his mom has cancer, and goes for the sympathy vote.  

Ken and Hannah have more of a shot than Adam, but you're right, it really goes seem like David or Jay are the clear favourites.  I feel like Adam won't bring up his mom's health at a FTC or elsewhere...bringing it up with Jay was simply because of the unique bond they shared with the family visit reward, I doubt he'd use it as a sympathy ploy.  Now, if Jay gets voted out and Adam makes it to the final three, I wonder if JAY would inform the other jurors, either at Ponderosa or during the final tribal council itself.

[waving feather]

I still think David is getting the strongest winner edit. But I don't want him to win now. Mostly because he sounds like a politician whenever he speaks during TC. You can call that a strength but it just irks me how politically correct his answers are ALL THE TIME. You can be smart about your answers without sounding so rehearsed all the time. Lighten up, man.

I would take a Bret win over him, probably because I'm like Bret whenever these people try too hard to game-speak or be politically correct during TC. Loved Bret's astute answer to Jeff's question about what Jay meant when he says he may not the biggest threat. Bret is good at cutting through BS.

[Special K]

2 hours ago, waving feather said:

I still think David is getting the strongest winner edit. But I don't want him to win now. Mostly because he sounds like a politician whenever he speaks during TC. You can call that a strength but it just irks me how politically correct his answers are ALL THE TIME. You can be smart about your answers without sounding so rehearsed all the time. Lighten up, man.

I would take a Bret win over him, probably because I'm like Bret whenever these people try too hard to game-speak or be politically correct during TC. Loved Bret's astute answer to Jeff's question about what Jay meant when he says he may not the biggest threat. Bret is good at cutting through BS.

David is a writer.  Bret is a cop.  I think that accounts for the differences you note in their speaking styles.

[pamplemousse]

On 12/5/2016 at 8:28 PM, Rachel RSL said:

I'm on the fence when it comes to Brett. I absolutely *hated* the way he mocked David's anxiety last TC but I recently re-watched the episode where Hannah had her panic attack and Brett, who was sitting out the comp with her, was really sweet and trying to comfort her. So I think right now I classify him as a nice guy with asshole tendencies.

I think he did that for Hannah because he was reacting like a good cop would (and I do think he's a good cop), not so much because he's a good guy. I don't think you have to be a good guy to be a good cop.

[hincandenza]

Honestly, if anyone other than David or Jay win, it'll feel unearned.  The only way I see Adam winning is if Jay is voted out by David's group, and spends his time in Ponderosa talking about Adam, his mom, and they all decide to go for the sympathy vote.  

The last season I watched was 31/Cambodia, where Jeremy won over Spencer and Tasha in a unanimous FTC vote; the only way that made sense to me if it was a "Who cares about game play or merit, we like this person better and would rather see them win" kind of vote.  Hannah would be ignored- not particularly liked and definitely not a "fitting" winner- and I think Ken was difficult enough to get along with, and had that bonehead move when Will was trying to flip-flop, that he won't get the jury votes either.  I can see Brett or Adam pulling that sympathy/friends vote off with the composition of the jury, maybe, but only David and Jay seem like they've done enough to earn the vote through their time on Survivor.

It occurs to me that in this sense, Survivor is like the famous Monty Hall brainteaser; we determine as viewers who deserves to win based on what the show has selectively edited... knowing the show is edited by people who know the actual winner long before the first episode is aired.

Edited December 8, 2016 by hincandenza

[violet and green]

15 hours ago, Trick Question said:

I feel like Adam won't bring up his mom's health at a FTC or elsewhere...bringing it up with Jay was simply because of the unique bond they shared with the family visit reward, I doubt he'd use it as a sympathy ploy. 

I think it's guaranteed, if Adam is in the final TC, that they'll get the full open-jawed ugly cry story. He's saving it up, the way Jeremy saved Val's pregnancy, and there's no way in hell, to my mind, he won't bring it out.

It's all very sad, especially the timing. I hope his mother did get a lot of joy and uplift knowing her son was in the game. Part of me just hopes he can whip out of there and go home, somehow, to be with her. But, if not, I think he'll use it - partly because it is what's driving him, and partly because it's a kind of trump card.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, hincandenza said:

It occurs to me that in this sense, Survivor is like the famous Monty Hall brainteaser; we determine as viewers who deserves to win based on what the show has selectively edited... knowing the show is edited by people who know the actual winner long before the first episode is aired.

That's so interesting! And so true. (Am still baffled I missed any hint whatsoever - bar one ominous bikini beach confessional that made the hairs on my neck stand up - that Michelle was getting a winner's edit last season; I got all the way to the vote reveal at the reunion show and was shocked, shocked!, she got any votes at all, bar maybe one sympathy vote for her big pathetic cry in the FTC, after being pulled apart for her lame responses...)

So guess I have no clue re winner's edits. There's too much of a glory arc with David for my comfort. I am hoping Jay pulls it off somehow; would not mind a Ken victory, either.

[LadyChatts]

20 minutes ago, violet and green said:

I think it's guaranteed, if Adam is in the final TC, that they'll get the full open-jawed ugly cry story. He's saving it up, the way Jeremy saved Val's pregnancy, and there's no way in hell, to my mind, he won't bring it out.

It's all very sad, especially the timing. I hope his mother did get a lot of joy and uplift knowing her son was in the game. Part of me just hopes he can whip out of there and go home, somehow, to be with her. But, if not, I think he'll use it - partly because it is what's driving him, and partly because it's a kind of trump card.

Which, if he does, is going to leave his victory sour for me.  I'm just not big on the players who have to use a sob story to convince everyone to vote for them (especially if they try to say it was all about the game they played, not the outside stuff in their normal lives).  Sadly, from a People article I posted in Adam's thread, it doesn't sound like he made it home in time.  It said his mother passed away two days after filming, and Adam was notified.

[waving feather]

Edit-wise, David still is having the strongest winner's edit, coupled with the fact that almost every exit interview from castaway talks about what a threat he is and why he deserves to win the game.

Sad to say, Jay is getting the favorite-who-falls-short edit.

[thehepburn]

AFAIK, there are no closing arguments to see since Probst did away with them.

[Lamb18]

Question and thought: Do the people who create each episode (editors) - choose the footage that will actually air - do they know who the winner is? They know who the finalists are but filming ended with the vote.  I assume Jeff knows and probably some auditing team/firm knows, just to prevent allegations of tampering between the vote and the live finale, but who else would know?

So . . . if the editors don't know who won, then the edits really aren't around who the winner is, but who the finalist are. And maybe the editors think they know who won, so they edit toward that. (Which might explain why the show didn't seem to explain Michelle's win last season - the editors thought Tai or Aubry won.) But if you look at episodes with the perspective of who's getting a finalist edit, I think it's much easier to determine that than who is getting a winner's edit.

Each episode has to be edited to tell two stories: 1) the story of the episode starting with right after the end of the previous episode's tribal council to the end of the next tribal council, mostly to explain the circumstances around the vote and who got voted out, and 2) the continuing story of the season, foreshadowing who will be there at the end. Kind of like chapters in a novel.

[thehepburn]

The editors know who the winner is, which is why so much attn has been paid to them for clues. It wasnt always the case but for at least the past 25 seasons or so, it has. Supposedly there was a change after S6 when Jenna Morasca was given the most negative winner's edit ever.

[Lingo]

This is all very interesting. To me, it's very clear that Adam is going to win based on the edit, and I expected to see a bunch of posts saying the same thing here! I just base that on the increasing amount of airtime he's gotten in recent episodes, particularly the last few, where he's getting a lot of talking heads explaining his strategy and pointing out how he's a pivotal swing vote. But I've had a feeling he's going to win since he got his idol. I just feel he's gotten so much airtime, even aside from the drama with his mother (I was gonna write "mama drama" but that seems disrespectful!).

David's gotten a lot of airtime too, but I don't think he's getting the winner's edit. He's getting more of the Spencer or the Kelley Wentworth edit, of the dynamic player who will fall just short. (Similar to Jay, who's getting the "popular challenge beast who will just fall short" edit.) I just say this because the last few episodes haven't really focused on David's strategy.

I think the last 3 are gonna be Adam, Hannah and Bret. I picked Bret because he's gotten a lot of airtime too, and Hannah because she's Adam's alliance partner and he'll need her to get to the end. So they're going to pick off Jay, David, and Ken, probably in that order unless one of them wins immunity. They'll target Jay first because everyone can agree on that. Then Adam will convince Hannah that it's time for David to go. If David wins immunity then they'll vote out Ken. Then David will fall. If they vote out David first, then they'll vote off Ken after him because I don't see Adam feeling a need to betray Hannah. Although possibly Adam, Hannah and Ken might vote out Bret instead.

If Adam gets to the end, then I can see him winning without relying on a sob story. The jury will see Bret as a goat like Sunday, and they won't respect Hannah's neurotic style of play. Adam will be able to point out his decision to vote out Figgy as a risky but pivotal strategic decision (in contrast, Hannah wasn't part of the alliance to boot Michaela). Then he and Hannah were on the winning side of every post-merge vote (except the rock), and he convinced Hannah to vote out Will. On the other side, Hannah convinced Adam to vote out Sunday, but choosing to target a goat like Sunday instead of a player like David will not be looked upon favorably. Adam can also point to playing his idol at a strategic point in the game (sure he misjudged Will but the jury will respect the decision and appreciate the flashy play), NOT playing the reward advantage, and winning an immunity challenge (possibly more on Wednesday). I don't know what Bret can say other than that he survived by jumping from alliance to alliance. And if I'm wrong and Ken replaces Bret or Hannah (more likely Bret), I don't know if he can say anything in his favor either other than being loyal to David.

So yeah, I really think it's Adam. Then again, I was totally shocked by Michelle's win!

[NutMeg]

On 12/8/2016 at 11:19 PM, waving feather said:

I still think David is getting the strongest winner edit. But I don't want him to win now. Mostly because he sounds like a politician whenever he speaks during TC. You can call that a strength but it just irks me how politically correct his answers are ALL THE TIME. You can be smart about your answers without sounding so rehearsed all the time. Lighten up, man.

I would take a Bret win over him, probably because I'm like Bret whenever these people try too hard to game-speak or be politically correct during TC. Loved Bret's astute answer to Jeff's question about what Jay meant when he says he may not the biggest threat. Bret is good at cutting through BS.

Ok, and this will be off topic, but later on I'll behave: I wish all politicians were David-like...

And that aside, it's a good way to be at TC.

On 12/10/2016 at 0:47 AM, waving feather said:

Edit-wise, David still is having the strongest winner's edit, coupled with the fact that almost every exit interview from castaway talks about what a threat he is and why he deserves to win the game.

Sad to say, Jay is getting the favorite-who-falls-short edit.

I've gotten to think that both got some winner edit, but that no longer applies only to the season winner but also to any player TPTB want to come back. So, in that respect, I'd say both of them would be a lock in a future season. Now, I hope one of them wins, but I'd still be ok will a left field winner such as Hannah or Adam, in that order.

(A while ago, I wrote in Jay's tread that I think he has what it takes to be a winner and, if not this time, he's very likely to win some other season. I see him as a male Parvati, which a combination of game instinct/social charm and athletic abilities, which is a lethal combination on Survivor! Plus, like her, he truly has fun and enjoys the game) 

[Jextella]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 10:47 AM, waving feather said:

Edit-wise, David still is having the strongest winner's edit, coupled with the fact that almost every exit interview from castaway talks about what a threat he is and why he deserves to win the game.

Sad to say, Jay is getting the favorite-who-falls-short edit.

What exit interviews are you talking about?  I'd love to review them.

As to editing, what I've noticed about Survivor over the years is that the ones who are about to get voted out seem to get a little more air time in the week or two prior to their leaving.  If this olds out, I'm guessing David gets booted soon.  He's been pretty high profile all along - almost too much to make me think he wins.

Anyway, it doesn't matter much.   It seems logical that Bret and Ken will go to the end because they'd be easier to win against in the jury.  that leaves space for only one more player - and it will be Adam, David, Hannah or Jay.  I'd be ok with any of them - and I'll be really sad for the 3 that don't make it.  This presumes, of course, that those who remain don't make a conscious decision not to take weaker players to the end.  Like Hannah said, she doesn't want to lose a spot to a goat. 

[violet and green]

7 hours ago, Jextella said:

Like Hannah said, she doesn't want to lose a spot to a goat. 

Given she is a goat, she probably doesn't want to lose a spot to herself either, I guess!

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, violet and green said:

Given she is a goat, she probably doesn't want to lose a spot to herself either, I guess!

I guess Sunday was the old goat and Hannah is the young goat. Time will tell if the young goat pulls out a win. The bigger question I have is Tina Wesson the last "Mom" to make it to the Finals and not get shitted on? It seems almost impossible for an older woman to make it to the end and not get crap from the jury for being a Mom & playing mean. Granted, Sunday wasn't the strongest player but I'm glad we were spared the jury reaming her out for being a "Mom". Rant over. I'm dying for Wednesday to get here. I love a Survivor Finale Night!!

[thehepburn]

Denise Stapley (S25 winna) is a mom.

[ByaNose]

10 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Denise Stapley (S25 winna) is a mom.

I loved Denise and I didn't even think of her. I guess I was wrong. In fact, I don't think Denise or Lisa Welchel were raked over the coals for playing the mother card while playing a tough game. Yup! I was wrong.

[MissEwa]

Sandra is a mother - I assumed she was while she was on Survivor too? But neither she nor Denise ever played a 'mother card' (bringing up their kids and acting as though being a mother made them more deserving or somehow better people). I felt like someone like Dawn mostly got a lot of grief over it because she did. 

[Rachel RSL]

Sandra definitely had kids when she was on the show. I distinctly remember she was being her bad-ass self and kicking ass in an endurance challenge and she said something to Jeff about how the pain was nothing and when she gave birth, she didn't even take an aspirin.   God, I love her!

Edited December 14, 2016 by Rachel RSL

[KimberStormer]

@ByaNose is absolutely right, though, that "mother figures" are often treated terribly by the jury.  I would say Lisa was quite disrespected relative to her game.  I think of all types of people who might make it to the end, all things being equal, a woman over 40 has the hardest hill to climb.  They are assumed to be useless loads being dragged if they don't play a big, showy game, and they are castigated for emotional manipulation if they do. 

[MissEwa]

I definitely see this for "mother figures", but not necessarily all mothers, I think @KimberStormer. It's less about whether or not they actually have kids and more about how they position themselves in the tribe, but yeah, it's something that probably most affects that particular demographic. I think (and this varies among the different examples) it's partly bitterness - these type of players inspire a lot of trust and when they break it it probably hurts worse (Dawn is a prime example of this) - and partly some pre-existing biases about "moms" being cheery and helpful but not overly bright (see the way putting 'Mommy' in front of things has become a shorthand insult). The Denises and Sandras of Survivor I think deliberately avoided being seen as "moms" to try to work around that.  

I wasn't a fan of Dawn or Lisa for other reasons and I think in part their downfalls were down to their own play but they definitely went with the "mom" thing stacked against them. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by MissEwa

[thehepburn]

6 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I loved Denise and I didn't even think of her. I guess I was wrong. In fact, I don't think Denise or Lisa Welchel were raked over the coals for playing the mother card while playing a tough game. Yup! I was wrong.

Um, if being awarded a million dollars is your definition of getting "shitted on", then I'll be happy to get shiited on all day.

[ByaNose]

3 hours ago, thehepburn said:

Um, if being awarded a million dollars is your definition of getting "shitted on", then I'll be happy to get shiited on all day.

Point well taken. LOL!!

[Special K]

Denise was awesome.  If you watch clips of her now, you can see how she is totally using her psychotherapist skills to connect with people and seem/be authentic.  She never played the "mom" card, IMO, but she did play the "Malcolm is more of a threat than me" card a number of times.

When I think of the moms, I think of those who mothered people on the tribe, who assumed that the younger people wanted to be mothered (some of them do, I guess).  And then they got into trouble when "mom" turned out, inevitably, to be a backstabbing player.

[peachmangosteen]

I hated Denise up until FTC, but imo she gave one of the greatest FTC performances of all time so I wasn't too pissed when she won.

9 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I definitely see this for "mother figures", but not necessarily all mothers ...

Yep. And part of me really hates that because of it's sexist and ageist undertones, but at the same time I completely understood why everyone hated Dawn and couldn't really be mad at them for voting against her. I still would have rather seen her win than Cochran though!

[kikaha]

16 hours ago, ByaNose said:

The bigger question I have is Tina Wesson the last "Mom" to make it to the Finals and not get shitted on? It seems almost impossible for an older woman to make it to the end and not get crap from the jury for being a Mom & playing mean.

Who exactly do you have in mind?

[Trick Question]

Monica Culpepper, by contrast, was a mother who was castigated by her jury for not being "mean" enough.  Everyone wanted her to flip on Tyson and Gervase because they were clearly using her as a goat (of course, Ciera/Hayden/etc. all saw her as a goat for them as well) but Monica stuck to her alliance and got reamed for it.

On 2016-12-08 at 3:46 AM, Trick Question said:

I don't think Adam has a chance in hell of winning.  The show loves him since he seems genetically engineered to be the ideal Survivor superfan/big movez! type of player, and he's very good at narrating everything in his interviews.  But I get the sense that among the actual players, they all kind of see him as a weasel who will flip at a moment's notice.

Ken and Hannah have more of a shot than Adam

Check out this terrible prediction!  Who was the idiot who posted this bit of....oh. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Trick Question

[SlackerInc]

I was glad to read over this and see that all the "winner's edit" talk (which inevitably leaks over into other threads--if it didn't, I wouldn't come here and bother you if you just played nicely in your own sandbox) is about as predictive as astrology.  Sure, Adam's name was mentioned--but less than most.