S03.E09: The Climb

[apinknightmare]

She didn't try to kill Roy when he basically admitted to doing it under the influence and she barely knows him. She wouldn't have done anything to Thea.

 

That was sarcasm, btw

[TwistedandBored]

I expected to be underwhelmed going in. So, the show didn't disappoint at all! Even if I didn't see any spoilers, I still would know Oliver is not dead!

 

Really would it kill the writers to introduce something before using it in such a huge plot-point. Like that drug that Thea was presumably under...Wouldn't it have been better to introduce it a couple of episodes or an episode earlier. Really soo many WTFs during this episode.

 

Also, is it just me or could you guys spot the stunt-doubles during the sword fight/trial by combat!? Whenever they went to the long-shot, I could tell it wasn't Matt/RAG fighting. Probably me then..oh well!  

 

 

ETA: I wish the fight between Katana and China White was longer! We saw soo many long male Superheroes fights. Why couldn't we get to see one with the women? It would have been awesome to watched it.

Edited December 11, 2014 by TwistedandBored

[Actionmage]

Isn't Oliver kind of being a dick by telling everyone goodbye except the person who lost her sister?  I'm not Laurel/Oliver shipper, and I don't see the show ever going there again, so an Oliver/Laurel goodbye isn't a threat to anything.  Why didn't it happen?

 

 

He said goodbye to those who mean the most to him. As much history as they have, Oliver clearly doesn't think of Laurel as his person, to borrow a phrase from Grey's Anatomy. It's not about a good-bye being a supposed threat, it was about Oliver's personal priorities.

 

 Why is Laurel isolated from this when this involves her just as much as Oliver?  Will someone tell her why Oliver left?  Did Oliver tell Thea he'd be gone because I don't remember that scene?  He only told her he'd watch after her but how will she react to his disappearance?

 

I doubt anyone will willingly tell "I don't work for you" Lance bout Team Arrow business for the simple reason that she has proven her inability to use their information with any consideration for actual truth or evidence. She is all reaction no thought, except for revenge. I wouldn't have told her a thing either. The difference between telling Quentin about Sara and telling Laurel about Oliver's duel with Ra's in Nanda Parbat is that Quentin could have been useful in investigating the death, thereby negating Ra's seeming need to kill Starling City innocents in order to protect the LoA's rep.

As for Thea being told, what good would it do her? To be told that Ollie is going to his probable death because she killed an assassin  while under a mind-control drug? No. There will be enough weighing on Thea soon enough. There was no need to ruin Christmas for her for eternity. As for his absence, I don't think she'll really notice. She is probably used to his "strange" disappearances by now.

 

edited to use all the letters in all the words

Edited December 11, 2014 by Actionmage

[Orion]

Photo recap "The Climb" http://prattschris.tumblr.com/post/104896525520

 

 

You know what, I'm going with this is how this episode ended.

[statsgirl]

I'm super confused.  I thought Thea knew Oliver was the Arrow?  

 

 

No, Oliver is still keeping that a secret, just as Thea was keeping secret that she was living with Malcolm when she was away and training with him.

 

 

I thought so too. Now she's going to be hounding Team Arrow while they're going to probably keep the truth from her because that's what people do in this show... smh Laurel deserves to know who killed her sister just as much as Quentin deserves to know that his daughter is dead and who killed her. 

It's been months since Laurel hounded Team Arrow to find out who killed Sara.  Since then she's told Oliver that she's not on his team and he's not the boss of her so presumably she's doing  her own investigating.  If she is. With Ted Grant.

 

I think 3x03 was the last time she tried to get Team Arrow to investigate.

 

She didn't try to kill Roy but that's because Oliver stopped her.  If he's out of town, there's no one to do that.

[Password]

She didn't say it baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack. *hurting inside*

On another note, it's like Ray and Felicity aren't on the same show. She really seems rather fond of him. I don't have much to say about Felicity tbh, do your thang girl.

Oliver. Jonas. Queen. The fact that Felicity was IN the damn montage is enough to make me weep. I didn't appreciate it whilst watching because I predicted she would be but, oh my word. The blood dripping from his lips, the last gasps of air, then that final image of his LOVE. I can't believe we have to wait so long till their reunion. I will say one thing about Miss Smoak. It's gonna hurt like a BITCH when she realises she didn't say it back. My heart is just dying for him.

Count me in as disappointed with the Diggle-Oliver goodbye. Come on now, a hug wouldn't take long!!!

I have nothing to say about Thea. Ridiculous storyline I have no interest in.

Surely there was another way though. Merlyn manipulated Oliver in ways that annoyed and frustrated me. I do wonder now if Thea actually knew the truth, if she'd care because she is really brainwashed. No no wait she was horrified when Laurel told her about Sara.

Laurel. Oh my word. Just no.

[SleepDeprived]

I really should just watch this show by checking my brain at the door to be able to enjoy it better. Because wow, was that such a predictable and kinda underwhelming episode for a mid-season finale that was hyped to be the best ever in all the seasons. I fell for your declarations again, SA! I should've learned my lesson after "The Promise" turned out to be a bit on the snooze-fest side.

 

It's good that Laurel, at least, told one parent that their daughter is dead but then to have Dinah become complicit in hiding this very important information from Quentin is so fucking dumb. Someone needs to tell the writers that having Laurel continue to, inexplicably, hide Sara's murder from her father is a terrible way to have the audience empathize or find any sort of affection for her. She can easily tell Thea and Dinah but not Quentin? WHY?!?! I am so done with this storyline.

 

As for that DNA evidence, did they definitively say it was Thea's or was it really Oliver's planted DNA? Whatever, show. I just can't take that "evidence" seriously so I'll just laugh about it. Otherwise, I might end up creating a twitter and actually inundating the writers with a barrage of tweets about how much they have failed goddamn science just to get to their shocking 'oh no, it's Thea!' twist.

 

Speaking of Malcolm's evol, convoluted plan. Ugh. Brainwashing. Figures. I suppose it's my fault for hoping the writers would come up with something a little more creative and craftier than the easy, copout plot device.

 

I'm so confused about the Hong Kong storyline. What did China White steal and why was it so important that she went after Maseo's family? I'll figure it out on rewatch. But Tatsu better not be the latest woman to die for the manpain.

 

Ra's seemed tiny and not at all imposing or scary. I was far more intimidated by Nyssa (who looked stunning in every scene) than the Demon's Head. Cool sword fight with Oliver on the mountain, though. Great job, Ra's' stuntman! Also, great job Thea's stuntwoman! I could definitely tell whenever they switched to the stunt people instead of the actors.

 

Ray Palmer is a creepy stalker. I know I say this every time but goddamn, that kind of behavior is so not acceptable. And it is all sorts of problematic that the writing seems to be trying to make it come off as an endearing quirk. And I felt nothing at his sob story about his fiancee. I'll try to enjoy his presence in future episodes since I know Felicity will, probably, be sharing a ton of screen time with him but I really wish I didn't find him so unappealing. And Felicity better not become a supporting character to his A.T.O.M. arc.

 

Roy was almost a non-entity. Though Diggle was great as devil's advocate in the Team Arrow foundry scenes. The goodbyes at the foundry seemed kinda off, though. Did they both honestly think Oliver would win against Ra's and return unharmed? I know they were concerned in the beginning but Roy and Diggle seemed too nonchalant, at the end, about Oliver having to fight one of the most feared men on the planet.

 

Oliver and Felicity. As has been mentioned, the goodbye in the foundry was most definitely not a '9'. But Oliver was determined and seemed lighter/almost happy in spite of the dark circumstances as though he really believed he would come back home after the trial by combat. And Felicity was so worried for him. And he was doing it all for Thea. And then Oliver and Felicity had a long, emotionally-charged forehead kiss followed by a definitive 'I love you' from Oliver. Yeah, that made my cold dead heart melt a little. But seeing that Oliver's last thoughts were of his family and his kiss with Felicity? Yeah, endgame.

[foreverevolving]

The good, the bad, the ugly, and the friggin wish I still had my M-16.

First: adrenaline people.. i'm seriously shaking, this was mostly a good episode.

Sorry guys but that scene was 9 out of 10. It was really good on the emotional level- it wasn't underwhelming and it wasn't over the top- it was well written and well acted. I even understand and accept Felicity telling Oliver to kill Ra's.

The good:

- Oliver one second "freeze" moment as he was talking with the team and felicity came over and and placed her hand on his back!!! First physical contact in awhile people!!! And then....

- Oliver two things- i squealed a little when he told her he loves her. Oliver seeing his parents, Thea and Felicity before falling. (i had feels people.. Actual feels)

- felicity "why does this keep happening". She's totally being prepped for Watchtower role. And I'm totally cool with it.

- I still like Ray. However......

- Oliver isn't dead- first Ra's only punctured his lower left side and his upper right side... Neither are where the heart is, he did enough to demadge him but that won't kill him. So I'm gonna fanwank this into: Oliver falls, there is so much snow on the ground that it works as a mattress and saves him. Because i can't fanwank it any other way and this is TV land.

- also tatsu is not dead, i think we'll find out she works for the triad. Cause I'll be pissed if she is.

- oliver dumbstruck face when Thea was fighting back. I laughed a bit.

- the scene with Lance and Arrow, Lance knows. Because i need him to know at least this.

- i think Ra's is growing on me. Like was said "silent force type" i can live with that, what i can't live with is...

The bad:

- (con. from above) ...the damn accent, also the shitty Arabic pronounciation. I grew up speaking Hebrew, Arabic was common enough, so i know when it is pronounced correctly, I was cringing. I guess this is how the people who understand Russian or chinese feel when they hear it on the show.

- wow, okay.. Not even Alex Kingston can save the Fakanary storyline, AK is a Grade A actress, and even she couldn't summon it when acting oppiste you know who... Just... Also Fakanary and Thea.. Willa isn't the best actress but she's better than KC, however she's still not strong enough to combat the awful acting of KC and rescue the scene. Both times in the cemetery i was taken out of the scene. Just.. Meh.

- i call bluf in Thea the actual killer. No, no, no!!

- Ray's Anna story.. Meh. But I also bought it... Kind of. Similar story to Fakanary- in a way yet I'm willing to accept it. Even if i thought something was off.

- Oliver not telling Thea what was going on.

The ugly:

- #TellQuantin!! Cause him not knowing is now downright ugly which leads me to....

The friggin wish I still had my M-16:

- so i could shot that bitch for telling Thea before she told her mom let alone her dad!!! WTF!!!!!!!!, and so i could bitch slap Dinah for not telling Quantin. Dear god.

I need a drink.

The ending was anticlimactic- because we know he's alive, but.. It wasn't all that bad.

I may need to rewatch, or i could just read the shit load of fics that would be out in less than 24 hours.

I'm on my ipad so i can't add gif's like i want too. It would make this post so much better.

ETA: slight edits, here may be more.

Edited December 11, 2014 by foreverevolving

[benteen]

Having Thea kill Sara when she was drugged was underwhelming and a copout. Diggle, Laurel and Roy barely seemed to be in this episode but I guess that will change when the show comes back. But the fight scene at the end was really good. Too bad everyone knows that Oliver isn't really dead.

 

Also I know I'll get hate for this but Thea is really starting to annoy me with her loyalty to merlyn like geez she does realize that HE is the one that was responsible for the death of her father, step father and his own son, Tommy and hundreds of other people. I just don't get it. And it's so obvious he doesn't give a shit about her considering how he threw her under the bus like that. In fact if the writers actually planned this out why didn't Merlyn show Oliver the video in episode 4 when they were accusing him of murdering Sara and acted like he had nothing to do with it? Why did he let it drag on like that?

 

Yeah, her loyalty to Malcolm the mass-murderer who got Tommy killed is appalling.  She's lost her right to be upset with Oliver's lying bullshit.

Edited December 11, 2014 by benteen

[wonderwall]

BEST -- BECAUSE RAY TURNED UP THE CREEPY AGAIN THIS EPISODE 

[Starfish35]

Also, telling Laurel would probably have meant her going after Malcolm, and that would end with a very dead Laurel.

I really can't believe they cycled back around to Malcolm being behind Sara's death after all. It kind of makes Oliver look like an idiot for not turning him over to Nyssa back when he had the chance.

[thuganomics85]

Of course, Ray is still pinging Felicity's phone.  Creepy fucker.  Not sure why I'm suppose to find this "eccentric", "charming", doofus to be anything, but a lame stalker.  But, of course, he's totally being set-up to be Atom, so I'm sure he's going to be sticking around for a long time.  Bleh.

 

So, Roy gets a complete bro-hug, but Diggle only gets a handshake?  Lame.  Do these writers hate Diggle or something?

 

Booo!!  What a complete cop-out!  Sara's killer was not just Thea, but a Thea mind controlled by some herbs from Malcolm?  Really?!  Both Thea and Sara were just pawns in this pissy feud between Ollie and Malcolm?  Way to go, guys.  What a waste of two great female characters.

 

God, at this point, Laurel is going to tell everyone in Starling City about Sara, before she gets around to Quentin.  I give it up; as far as I'm concern, she's just irredeemable.

 

Ra's.... not sure.  I didn't dislike Matt Noble persay, but I was just underwhelmed.  He felt like a second-tier villain, instead of the almighty Ra's.  Not even close to Slade/Manu Bennett's presence.  Good fighting skills though.  And, I can't hate too much on a character that help create Nyssa!  I love her.  Katrina Law is just way too beautiful and awesome.

 

The Olicity scene was suppose to be a 9?  On what scale, 20?  The producers are just so weird.

 

Good cliffhanger though.  I'm sure Ollie will pull through, but I'm wondering how.  I'm guessing Maeso and maybe even Nyssa are turning on Ra's, and will somehow save him.

 

Honestly, despite my complaints, there was a lot I did like.  The actors stepped up their game, the fight scene was great, and it did feel like the stakes were raised in a real good way.  I am curious to see where they are going with this.  I just wished they would.... I don't know, get over some of the stuff they are stuck on.  Until then, it's just going to continue to be in the shadow of The Flash for me.

Edited December 11, 2014 by thuganomics85

[ban1o]

Yeah I know I already talked about Thea but I am just over her storyline. I was really looking forward to it going into this season but it's just been ridiculously underwhelying. from the random douchey DJ to killing Sara under the influence of drugs to seeming to have no agency and being completely controlled my Malcolm that she almost seems brainwashed. Maybe they'll step it up next season with her.

[bluebonnet]

No, Oliver is still keeping that a secret, just as Thea was keeping secret that she was living with Malcolm when she was away and training with him.

 

Just seems strange that Malcolm never told her.  It was constantly hinted throughout that Thea knew Oliver's big secret.  

 

I feel sad because I think I'm done with this show.  It feels too disgusting watching a show that is this sexist in 2014.  

[wonderwall]

Laurel's episode arc in 3 pictures:

[apinknightmare]

Also, telling Laurel would probably have meant her going after Malcolm, and that would end with a very dead Laurel.

I really can't believe they cycled back around to Malcolm being behind Sara's death after all. It kind of makes Oliver look like an idiot for not turning him over to Nyssa back when he had the chance.

 

He is an idiot. Which is why I cackled when Diggle told him he was one of the smartest men he ever knew. I was like...how many men do you know, John? 

Edited December 11, 2014 by apinknightmare

[TwistedandBored]

Oh, I wasn't expecting her to ask him not to go or anything - she said she wouldn't because she knows him well enough to know he wouldn't stay. That works for me. I just have difficulty believing that she wouldn't tell him she loved him too or say something along those lines when, even if she believed in him wholeheartedly (and I know she did), it could very well be the last time she sees him. It's not like she'd be emotionally manipulating him or anything to simply say it. It could've been soft and true like his was, and that's that. Just so he knew before he marched off to GET STABBED IN THE CHEST BY RA'S AND THEN FALL OFF A CLIFF onto the fluffiest snow bank ever, am i right?

 

I would say she should have said, "I love you too" to Oliver. However, these writers have NOT given Felicity anytime to voice her feelings other than to block Oliver ever since that kiss. I would say something when she is given time on Arrow not on the Flash to talk about her feelings and figure out how she is feeling in this moment in her live. All I see is how Oliver feels and nothing from Felicity. In this case, the writers are consistent. 

 

 

Sorry if I am not making any sense. English is my second language. 

[wonderwall]

Yeah I know I already talked about Thea but I am just over her storyline. I was really looking forward to it going into this season but it's just been ridiculously underwhelying. from the random douchey DJ to killing Sara under the influence of drugs to seeming to have no agency and being completely controlled my Malcolm that she almost seems brainwashed. Maybe they'll step it up next season with her.

To be honest, I wasn't excited about Thea's storyline until now because even back then I knew she was being used by Malcolm. This episode just made that clear. Now I'm hopeful because maybe when Oliver gets back he'll tell her the truth about Merlyn? Or she'll find out herself? And when she does she'll set out to destroy him? I hope so. I would love to see her using the training Malcolm give her to kick his ass even though I know she probably can't. Maybe she can find another way? OR maybe she can team up with Oliver to destroy him... Yes. I like this. 

[ban1o]

That was sarcasm, btw

Lol bad sarcasm detector

[NumberCruncher]

Ugh. I immensely disliked this episode. I don't think the story could have been anymore more contrived than it was, and as per usual, the pacing was awful. Of course Oliver had to die because the EPs think that the audience is craving rehashed comic stories from the 70s. I hate that they're probably heading into Lazarus Pit territory because they now think it's okay to break their own rule about supernatural elements. The Mirakuru plotline was barely believable last season but the LP would be downright cheesy. What happened to writing your own story for the TV show?

I can't believe that Quentin still doesn't know his daughter is dead and that now Laurel has dragged Dinah into the lie.

Even the Merlyn/Thea storyline managed to piss me off because yet again another female character Oliver cares about is being used to propel his manpain.

I also hate the Felicity and Ray storyline. I don't find them cute or their interactions enjoyable. I thought Brandon Routh's acting in the Verdant scene was downright atrocious and I continue to hate that Ray doesn't ever get called out on his bullshit behavior ("I pinged your cell phone again"). Seriously? Could not be more disinterested in the Atom thing.

And I knew Guggenheim would oversell the Olicity scene and I'm glad I prepared myself for disappointment. Sure we got an ILY but as with everything this season there was no payoff before we were shuffled off to the next scene.

I hate that this has put me in such a bad mood and it doesn't look like there's much on the horizon to fix that once the two-month wait is over. What has become of my favorite show?

[Guest]

BEST -- BECAUSE RAY TURNED UP THE CREEPY AGAIN THIS EPISODE 

 

It actually legit worries me that people find this endearing. She said she had things to do but because he wasn't done with their conversation, he tracked her phone. GROSS invasion of privacy and shows him to be a control freak. I can't even deal with this guy anymore.

[pivot]

This show turned out so much better than I expected. After being spoiled for the episode, I was dreading watching it.

Things that I loved:

1. Surprisingly, the entire fight scene with Ra and Oliver. I am not normally a big fan of fight scenes but I thought it played well even though it was clear that Ra was just toying with Oliver.

2. Loved the last flashes before Oliver "died" especially seeing Felicity as his last memory.

3. How certain and clear Olive was when saying I love you to Felicity. The scene wasn't a 9 by any stretch but I thought it ended up better than I was expecting.

4. The shift from Felicity and Ray as a romantic pairing to being vigilante partners. I hope that this means they aren't going to pursue a Felicity/Ray relationship. It just makes no sense even if Felicity thinks Oliver is dead.

5. They tied Thea, Malcolm and Maseu into one plot with Sara's murder. This season has felt incredibly disjointed with all these pieces not tied together.

6. Laurel having nothing to do with the A-plot and Oliver not wasting time saying goodbye to her. She really has no place on the show any longer and I've felt since Oliver chose Sara again over Laurel in season 2 that there is no real relationship between the two. I can see when saying his goodbyes that he wouldn't waste time with her.

7. Goodbye with Diggle. I am in the minority. I thought the goodbye fit their relationship perfectly. Neither one are overly demonstrative people and I thought they said more in that handshake and nod then any words would.

Things I Hated:

1. Every single second involving Laurel's idiotic plot. Keeping Sara's death from her parents makes no sense and is just going to hurt Quentin more when he finds out his daughter is dead and his remaining family lied to him about it. There is literally no explanation that makes sense for this plot point.

2. Katie Cassidy's attempt at acting. You could see her trying to emote in the opening scenes at Sara's grave and it was hard to watch it was so bad.

3. We didn't get to spend more time with Roy and see his reaction to Thea murdering Sara.

What I hope happens in the next few episodes:

1. Ray pitches in to help with Team Arrow making Black Canary unnecessary and keeping her out of the Arrow lair.

2. More time spent on Thea and Malcolm and hopefully the realization that Malcolm is not what he seems.

3. The DJ doesn't reappear.

4. Felicity doesn't get romantically involved with Ray.

5. Significant Felicity, Diggle and Roy time spent together greiving for Oliver and maybe starting to look for him if they guess he's alive.

[Guest]

Oh, I've just seen a gif of Felicity's face after Oliver told her he loved her and walked out and she looks so emotional and ok, ok. I can work with this. That is something. I swear, her 'I love you' better be epic! 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

Is it okay that I'm still not completely dismissing my pet theory that Oliver is ~infiltrating the LoA, and dying is part of the plan? Maybe he ate ALL THE MAGIC HERBS before climbing the mountain, maybe he knows about the Lazarus Pit, and Maseo is his inside man. Maybe instead of Oliver and Malcolm joining forces to fight Ra's, Oliver wants Ra's to help him get rid of Malcolm. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

Yeah, yeah, denial + river in Egypt, I know.

[statsgirl]

I didn't like it when Oliver said Merlyn was under his protection just because Thea pulled at his heart strings about her tiny remaining family, and I hope even more now that when he gets back, he works to loosen Merlyn's clutches on her. Yes, he's her only remaining living parent but some parents are toxic and the only way to save the kid is to remove them from the parent.

 

Also, telling Laurel would probably have meant her going after Malcolm, and that would end with a very dead Laurel.

Always with the silver linings.......

 

I think it terms of Laurel's story here, if Oliver had told her and said goodbye, not only would they have had to deal with her reactions and then calming her down, but she would have been a minor part of Oliver's story. This way, with her scenes only with Dinah, Quentin and Thea, she got to have a B plot of her own.

[WaitandHope]

How was last week so good and this week so...perplexing, disjointed and not so good? I was fine with Olicity - if it had never been teased as a 9, I would probably be super pumped. Everything else (sans fight scenes) just all so oddly dissatisfying, so hollow - for a show that can often get its emotional and plot beats so right! See last week, for example. I don't mind dark and tragic, but this was such a strangely paint-by-numbers and throw anything-that-that-sticks at the wall buildup. It did accomplish one thing for me...I think I'm much less excited about the show now and can easily wait until mid-January. Hopefully, it can Climb out of this mess. Ugh...I apologize.

[Actionmage]

It actually legit worries me that people find this [ Ray Palmer's actions] endearing.

 

(brackets are mine, for clarification.)

 

What legit worries me is that TPTB seem to think it's delightful and cute and they aren't stopping the behaviors in the slightest!

[NumberCruncher]

I'm already tired of the implication that shipping Olicity = being happy with the show. Is that the only aspect of the show we're capable of caring about? And even if it were, why would any Olicity fan be over the moon about their storyline thus far this season?

Yes. THANK YOU. I'm tired of being blamed as a fan of the duo for the shittiness of the writing and pacing this season--especially when the Olicity scenes and storyline have been seriously lacking. How can it be pandering when so much of the Olicity fandom HATES what they've done with the relationship? And I also don't buy that the Olicity scenes have somehow taken away from all other storylines because the crumbs that we have gotten have been so disjointed and rushed so they can move on to the other 10,000 things they're trying to cover in an hour. Every storyline is suffering because they can't slow down for 5 minutes to develop stories and characters. This episode was yet another classic example. If Diggle didn't get a proper goodbye it's probably because Oliver got a combined total of about 3 minutes to say goodbye to everyone in his life he cared about. That's on the producers.

[statsgirl]

How was last week so good and this week so...perplexing, disjointed and not so good? 

Last week the story was by Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg (because they wanted to blend it with the Flash part of the crossover).  Storytelling matters.

[wonderwall]

Ya know, they could've saved SO MUCH TIME for the goodbyes if they didn't focus on Oliver climbing that damn mountain. SMH

[catrox14]

I just don't even know what to think.

Screw theThea did it bs. She deserves ex better than that.

Once again Laurel proves to be the most selfish person in the show. Her entire reason for not telling Quentin is because, SHE can't lose anyone else. JUST SHUT YOUR STUPID PIE HOLE, LAUREL. FLY AWAY FAKANARY. FLY FAR FAR AWAY.

Diggle doesn't get a hug? F that.

I am happy to hear Oliver say unequivocally that Oliver 100% loves Felicity and I was so happy that his "final memories" did not include Laurel. Woo hoo!

Honestly, I thought Stephen was really great this episode. He was terrific in all his goodbye scenes but I thought he was awesome in his "death" scene. He truly looked stunned that he had lost and was dying. Great work in a rather disappointing episode.

[slayer2]

I'm surprisingly okay with that ending. I was team Ras the whole time. All I kept thinking was somebody ought to give a shit about Sara. Sooooo liked the ending hated all the copious boring flashbacks, felt like the episode was written by a 12year old especially the useless flashback telling me about the plant that they just explained the effects of. Lame. I was looking forward to the Thea/Arrow fight but the stunt co-ordinator must have forgotten his coffee that night, I watched it twice and both times it looked weird and stupid.

 

Then there's Team Arrow who can basically go fuck themselves on yet another witchhunt against Oliver's family. Diggle sure loves prosecuting everyone in Oliver's life, it's like the only ones he wants in it are him and Felicity which is FUCKED. Then Felicity demanding the truth out of Ray was just as fucking stupid as Oliver demanding the truth out of Thea....Go fuck yourselves BOTH OF YOU. You're both lying your asses off about your own stupid shit and you have the nerve to get shirty when someone lies to your face. You must fuck off. Now. Then Laurel with her lying liarness to her mother and father but she comes right out and tells Thea....uh THE FUCK??!! If you're trying to keep your sister's death a secret then stop weeping at her goddamn grave. Oh jesus this fucking fakakta show. Gah! Lying fucking liars who lie like cheap rugs frankly and then when someone calls them on it they lie some more. Everybody, liars. It's like a show full of Smallville Clark Kents and they are making me feel like Lana fucking Lang. There are many things of which I can forgive but that? I caaaaaaaan't.

 

And then Oliver has the nerve to tell Thea he loves her? Uh...no you don't you stupid, dramatic, little man. You don't know what love fucking is, I'll tell you what it isn't, shutting your family out and keeping secrets to "protect them" when your lying liarness is only alienating them further and giving loonies like Merlyn a chance to pounce on their vulnerability. None of this would have or could have happened if Oliver way back in season-freaking-2 had just told Thea the TRUTH.

 

The only people who told the fucking truth in this episode were Nyssa (god bless her) her father and The Atom which is why when the blade went plunging through Oliver's chest I thought, good riddance. I'd rather watch a show of LOA because at least then I'd get some honesty. HO-NES-TY do you know what that is Team Arrow? Laurel? Malcolm? Anybody? Bueller? *sigh. I just....

 

 

I am happy to hear Oliver say unequivocally that Oliver 100% loves Felicity and I was so happy that his "final memories" did not include Laurel. Woo hoo!

 I honestly don't give a rat's patooey about his feelings for Felicity or Laurel at this point but he might have spared a second for Sara, the entire reason he was on the mountain to begin with and then he compounds things by lying about her and basically spitting on her grave saying that she tried to kill herself again. Grrrrrrrrrrr Arggggggggggggh

Edited December 11, 2014 by slayer2

[pigs-in-space]

Ya know, they could've saved SO MUCH TIME for the goodbyes if they didn't focus on Oliver climbing that damn mountain. SMH

Or skipped the bits with Laurel.  Or half the Hong Kong flashbacks.  That would have been my preference.

[catrox14]

.......I may have cried in the end even though I know Oliver isn't dead.

 

WHAT THE FUCK ARROW.

I totally teared upped. Stephen was awesome and sold me on his death. I honestly did not expect to to see him get run through. I thought he would slip off the cliff trying to stab Ras so yup, I gasped and cried a bit.

[Password]

Honestly, I thought Stephen was really great this episode. He was terrific in all his goodbye scenes but I thought he was awesome in his "death" scene. He truly looked stunned that he had lost and was dying. Great work in a rather disappointing episode.

Honestly the crossover eps and this episode SA blew me away. The dying scene was incredible. Absolutely wonderful. And my did he look fabulous shirtless (finally).

This Ray story. It's so...it's such bad timing. I love how happy Felicity gets when he geeks out, but I am somewhat...perplexed at her reactions to RAY, and lack of reaction to Oliver. Perhaps she's all reacted out, and I want her to be happy but...my heart aches for Oliver right now, so watching her and Ray grow closer will be surreal. That is if they decide to actually go that route (romantic) or allow them to be vigilante partners.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Not sure how that was a literal cliffhanger.  More like Oliver literally playing possum on the side of a mountain.

[Carrie Ann]

Is it okay that I'm still not completely dismissing my pet theory that Oliver is ~infiltrating the LoA, and dying is part of the plan? Maybe he ate ALL THE MAGIC HERBS before climbing the mountain, maybe he knows about the Lazarus Pit, and Maseo is his inside man. Maybe instead of Oliver and Malcolm joining forces to fight Ra's, Oliver wants Ra's to help him get rid of Malcolm. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

Yeah, yeah, denial + river in Egypt, I know.

 

I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know that the only thing I saw Oliver putting in his bag was his tiny satchel of Magic Island Herbs. So, you know, there's that.

[JenMD]

Lol, one of the things I 'm pretty sure of is Felicity left work at Palmer Industries in a grey dress but changed into a red one before she went to the Arrow Lair that same night.

The red dress was the next day, all the boys were in different clothes, too.  When we first see her in the lair, in her trench, when she rushed on over from PI, she's wearing the same dress she left in (with its cute red belt and matching shoes ).  As usual with this show, however, there's no indication of the passage of time... except for Felicity wearing a different pretty dress.

[slayer2]

Not sure how that was a literal cliffhanger.  More like Oliver literally playing possum on the side of a mountain.

Haha! Literal cliffhanger. I'm pretty sure he fell off the mountain though, man. Which would account for his absence in the next few episodes. That's fine with me because I need a goddamn break. But if they somehow bring him back from the dead with that magical gooey stuff but they couldn't figure it out with Sara I may have to drink myself into a ragey blackout.

[apinknightmare]

Lol bad sarcasm detector

 

Also bad sarcasm generator on my part, haha

[Artsda]

 

Why is Laurel isolated from this when this involves her just as much as Oliver?  Will someone tell her why Oliver left?

Tell her that he left to take the responsibility of Sara's death off his sister? I think telling Laurel would be the last thing those who know should or would do. Laurel's a loose cannon, who knows what she'd do if she found out about what Thea did. Thea should come first to Oliver/TeamArrow.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I didn't even see Oliver put those magical island herbs in his bag.  I must go and rewatch that scene.  Do you suppose those herbs heal through and through knife wounds?  I'm gonna go with yes.

[slayer2]

I don't think Thea will ever come to Team Arrow because she'll never get an invitation. They work in the basement of her club yet they still treat her like the red-headed step child. Unbelievable.

 

 

And then, and then and then, that Team Arrow dropped the ball so hard (or casually) on Sara's murder that Ras Al Ghul actually had to put a timestamp on that shit. I can't with this show. I just....I am so glad I have liquor.

Edited December 11, 2014 by slayer2

[bluebonnet]

I didn't even see Oliver put those magical island herbs in his bag.  I must go and rewatch that scene.  Do you suppose those herbs heal through and through knife wounds?  I'm gonna go with yes.

But do they also heal the splat of hitting the ground after at least a 500 foot fall?

Edited December 11, 2014 by bluebonnet

[catrox14]

They could have had anyone from the LoA kill Sara just to get Oliver on that mountain, fighting Ras.

IMO this whole stupid plot was contrived solely to elevate Laurel to BC. It required

1) literal assassination of sara lance

2) figurative character assassination, of Thea.

3) Oliver putting his sister first which was okay except see no. 2.

4) having laurel keep the secret from Quentin and erryone else just so Dinah's Momdar can kick in so she can urge Laurel to avenge Sara's death

[apinknightmare]

I totally teared upped. Stephen was awesome and sold me on his death. I honestly did not expect to to see him get run through. I thought he would slip off the cliff trying to stab Ras so yup, I gasped and cried a bit.

 

Same. I was surprised at how graphic it was - I thought Ra's was going to get him to accidentally step off the cliff or something. And Oliver looked so surprised, it honestly makes me so sad even looking at gifs of it - even though I know he's not dead, haha.

[Password]

I've pretty much written Laurel off. I never realised how selfish she is until she said she can't lose anymore people. Yeah I'm done.

[apinknightmare]

I didn't even see Oliver put those magical island herbs in his bag.  I must go and rewatch that scene.  Do you suppose those herbs heal through and through knife wounds?  I'm gonna go with yes.

The only thing those herbs don't heal is a broken heart.

But do they also heal the splat of hitting the ground after at least a 500 foot fall?

he landed on the fluffiest snowbank, okay

[Guest]

(brackets are mine, for clarification.)

 

What legit worries me is that TPTB seem to think it's delightful and cute and they aren't stopping the behaviors in the slightest!

 

Agreed. I just need them to wake up and smell the creepy controlling stalker already but it won't happen. They probably think it's romantic. FML.

[quarks]

If the goal of this episode was to get people talking on Twitter, consider GOAL ACCOMPLISHED.  #Arrowmidseasonfinale, Poor Felicity, Ra's Al Ghul, Alex Kingston and Thea all trended. But not, alas, Oliver You Overconfident Idiot which was my choice.  

 

Anyway. You can also put me down as someone who liked the episode, despite some major flaws:

 

Good things:

 

1. Because I'm going to be very, very negative on Ray in a moment, YAY ATOM SUIT.  I liked it.  I'm not at all sure this plan of miniaturizing everything is going to work out especially since the suit looks big, but otherwise, YAY ATOM SUIT.

 

I also liked that Felicity regained some insight where Ray was concerned and decided to ask him what, exactly, he was up to with Queen Consolidated. 

 

2. Awww, Oliver and Thea have little Oliver and Thea Xmas ornaments.

 

3. The League of Assassins has set up neutral mountains in the United States or Canada just on the offchance that they might, might, have to have a ritual duel even though Ra's Al Ghul told us in script that no one has bothered with a ritual duel for 67 years. This, everyone, is preparation. I LOVE IT.

 

4. Fight scene between China White and Katana. More of that please. 

 

5. Thea versus Arrow!  Ok, that was great, even if I'm not sure how she could even move in those pants, much less fight.  Bonus jumping off the balcony for the win.  

 

6. Malcolm versus Oliver! That was intense and fun.

 

7. Completely manipulative bastard Malcolm is TOTALLY BACK. Yes!  Bonus points for carrying around little videos of arranging to have people murdered.

 

8. "She deserves more than this." We're all with you, Dinah.

 

9. Oliver saying he would do anything Felicity asked. (Except, apparently, GO OUT WITH HER, or stop dangling maybes, or...wait, I'm in the good things area.  Never mind.) SNIFFLE.

 

10. Oliver's casual "I love you," to Felicity.

 

11. The show deciding to go shirtless for its final battle scene because "custom." Right, show, right.  Also that final battle scene. And Amell deciding to flex his abs at a particular moment, like, YES, WE DID NOTICE, and no, I don't think that was Oliver AT ALL, Mr. Amell. Just saying.

 

12. Oliver died (ok, mostly died) shirtless, in homage to many of his greatest moments on the show. I approve, show, I approve.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Did I miss seeing a ladder somewhere? If I didn't, how did Thea get those ornaments up to the top of the tree?

 

2. Genuine question: are we meant to assume that Dinah is somewhat psychic?  Flash already had that mind control thing going, although Dinah says she had feelings about Sara being alive before the particle accelerator went off, so maybe not.

 

3. Agreed that Oliver's goodbye with Diggle felt truncated - but I think that was because Oliver didn't really think he was going to lose. He knew there was a chance, but he thought he would win.  Thus, no need (from Oliver's point of view) for a major goodbye. With Felicity - she was clearly upset, and also asking him to do something she usually doesn't ask.  So a bit more there.

 

4. GLOVES, Oliver. GLOVES. If you are going to be climbing a SNOWY MOUNTAIN IN THE WINTER, GLOVES. If you ask me, the reasons you lost were a) overconfidence, and b) your hands were exhausted/chilled from the snowy rock climbing. 

 

5. Veeeeerrrrry convenient that these amnesia inducing herbs just happened to show up now, and not, say, in the first season when Malcolm could have really used them.  (Maybe he found them while travelling around in the second season.

 

6. I'm confused by Sara's timeline.  If I understood the show correctly, Maseo joined the League right after whatever happened, which should have been at least eight months since Sara fell off the freighter.  But Maseo said he and Sara started in the League at the same time. What was Sara doing in those eight months?

 

7. Nyssa should have realized that Oliver was playing them.

 

8. The less said about DNA markers on this show the better.

 

9. After making a point that torture isn't really all that effective last week, the show backtracks and makes it effective this week? Oh, show.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Ray pings Felicity's phone, so that he can find her in order to talk about the kiss, which she has already informed him she doesn't want to discuss, and pursues her after work hours to continue this conversation. Writers, SmoaknArrow on Twitter called it: crossing boundaries like this is stalking and generally calls for a restraining order, especially since this is not the first time that Ray has done this in script.

 

Ray then gives her a sob story.  In its first season, Arrow correctly made a point, with Thea, Roy and Laurel, of all people, that not all sob stories can be believed.  Moving on. Felicity responds to all this by touching Ray's hands. Again, SmoaknArrow on Twitter called it: men who break boundaries like this get restraining orders, not hand holding.

 

Look, I'm ok with throwing obstacles around to keep Oliver and Felicity apart. That's standard in television romance. But this? GRR. 

 

And since I'm complaining, another character motivated by death to become a superhero?  Can we find another motive? Any other motive?  No wonder I like Firestorm - at least he seems mostly motivated just by his own death.

 

2. Let me just make sure I have this straight: At least sixteen living people, not counting nameless ARGUS agents and League of Assassins dudes, now know that Oliver is the Arrow (Felicity, Diggle, Barry, Caitlin, Cisco, Dr. Wells, Joe, Lyla, Roy, Laurel, Maseo, Nyssa, Ra's, Amanda Waller, Malcolm, Slade) and about the same number of people now know that Sara is dead (I'm not sure if Joe, Amanda Waller and Slade know, but Thea and Dinah do, so it evens out) and yet Quentin, the actual professional detective on the show, doesn't know either one?  That's not even counting the various other people who knew Oliver's identity and are now dead.

 

Look, show, I get that you want to have one character left in ignorance to be kinda the "normal" grounded person on the show, but Quentin's already seen Mirakured people and had that semi-encounter with Barry. He's been initiated, so to speak, and leaving him unaware and more to the point, not being able to notice things that his untrained ex-wife can, is not working with the detective thing at all.

 

And now, Laurel:

 

The above part got long, so I'm splitting Laurel into her own post.