TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[meowmommy]

10 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Plus the subtitles only covered about half the dialog, as in a Hong Kong or Bollywood film, forcing me to draw on my shitty high school French.

I find that true a lot in closed captioning as well, which we use a lot.  I understand how dialogue can be dropped or altered when they're captioning a live program, but when they can take their time, I don't understand why the transcription often isn't literal.

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, meowmommy said:

I find that true a lot in closed captioning as well, which we use a lot.  I understand how dialogue can be dropped or altered when they're captioning a live program, but when they can take their time, I don't understand why the transcription often isn't literal.

Was viewing a cc'ed movie or show recently and noticed this (it might have been The Irishman), but there seemed to be a reasonable justification. The dialogue was being spoken fast and moving from one speaker to another at a rapid clip, and the human eye/brain can only process so many words per second. (I guess the human ear/brain can process words faster.) If the captions had been verbatim there'd have been no way to read every word before the next person was speaking. They made some judicious cuts in the captioning that preserved the meaning of the lines, and I found the result satisfactory.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 12/11/2019 at 6:36 PM, Milburn Stone said:

The dialogue was being spoken fast and moving from one speaker to another at a rapid clip, and the human eye/brain can only process so many words per second. 

With something like the 1949 Gigi that makes some kind of sense.  With The Irishman, though, why couldn't the captioner be working from the written script?   ETA:  I know what you're saying about displaying that volume of text onscreen, but it seems to me that people talked fast and furious in a lot of old Hollywood films and I've seen things like Unfaithfully Yours for example fully captioned.

For some reason we can't get CC at all for TCM in recent months, although we have it for the rest of the channels.

Another funny thing about CC is the way in which  it automatically censors words it detects as racial slurs, even when they occur innocuously within a word - e.g., "suxxxxious."  This is especially true on the retro channels like MeTV and Antenna.

Edited December 14, 2019 by ratgirlagogo

[Rinaldo]

I finally watched the 1949 Gigi last night. First of all, yes, the subtitling: In this case (unlike the one @Milburn Stone mentioned) there were plenty of pauses between sentences (though not within! any given sentence whizzed by too fast for my long-ago two years of French to parse), and the titling could have kept up. But they mostly chose to keep us in touch with just the gist of conversations. From this and the white-on-white lack of contrast, I surmise that the titling was created back when the movie was new, and the whole practice of doing this for foreign films didn't arise that often, so it followed some rules -- "use big white letters and don't worry about contrast" and "people don't want to read lots of text at the movies, keep it to a minimum" -- that have been modified or abandoned in the decades since.

As to the movie itself: I was surprised how closely it matched the later musical Gigi almost scene for scene. I would have thought that Lerner would re-invent the scenario more, but his biggest change was to add the framing of the story by Honoré, to feature his biggest star. Otherwise the visit to the skating palace, the champagne visit, the excursion to the seaside... there they all were already. It reinforces my opinion that Alan Jay Lerner was a good librettist/screenwriter only when someone else put a solid structure in place for him (this, Pygmalion). When he had to invent something new (Paint Your Wagon, On a Clear Day You Can See Forever) or adapt a novel (Camelot), he almost always got himself in trouble structurally.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Rinaldo

[elle]

6 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

When he had to invent something new (Paint Your Wagon, On a Clear Day You Can See Forever) or adapt a novel (Camelot), he almost always got himself in trouble structurally.

Would you mind giving a very simple explanation for what you mean?  I'm curious and would like to hear your opinion.  Did it make any difference that some of these were first on stage?

[Rinaldo]

24 minutes ago, elle said:

Would you mind giving a very simple explanation for what you mean?  I'm curious and would like to hear your opinion. 

Okay, since you ask; this is based on studying and teaching them for some time. And (I hope I needn't add) I don't mean that it's therefore somehow wrong to like any of these. In fact, I would put Camelot on any list of my all-time favorite musicals; it remains appealing despite whatever I find amiss in it.

Paint Your Wagon: The stage version is about a father and daughter, he obsessed with always looking for more (his "wanderin' star"), she attracted to a young Mexican miner. But she's sent back East to finishing school, and while we wait an act and a half for her to return, we're given distractions in the form of loneliness ballets, the gold drying up, the father buying one of a pair of Mormon wives so he can remarry, and more ballets till finally the two kids can get back together by coincidence. When it was filmed 2 decades later, Lerner replaced all this with a new story about two men sharing a wife, songs being dropped or repurposed or new ones written (without Loewe).

On a Clear Day You Can See Forever: The big problem has always been how to resolve a situation in which the therapist is in love with a former life of his patient; obviously there's no way they can actually get together, and Lerner never found one. He kept rewriting during previews, and even after opening, and for a much-altered touring version. For the movie, it seems they'll be a couple in their next life -- getting married 20 years from now in fact, so they're not going to live terribly long. A Broadway revival rewrote it totally (including a sex change between lives), but it flopped like all the other versions. Despite the great appeal of the songs, the story never actually satisfies audiences.

Camelot: Just about everybody loves the score, I do too. And the idea of the subject is appealing, the King Arthur mythos with all its evocativeness. But Lerner never whipped it into shape. The opening scene, where Arthur and Guenevere (betrothed without having met) accidentally meet and fall in love for real, is enormously charming -- but it's not part of the Arthur story, it's taken from somewhere else (Verdi's Don Carlos is closest, though there may be some other source I don't know), and it doesn't set up what the show will actually be about. Thereafter, characters come and go episodically: Merlyn, who seems set to be a major character at the start, vanishes forever in Scene 2. King Pellinore shows up 3 scenes later just because we need some comic relief. Mordred, the antagonist, doesn't appear till Act II. Finally, we've run out of time and the whole story of Guenevere's trial and rescue are summed up in a sudden narrative cantata. Lerner tried to solve some of this in the movie by framing the whole thing as a flashback from the final battle, but it didn't help. The biggest problem is the placing of points for song: there are two main stories -- the Arthur-Guenevere-Lancelot triangle, three people who love each other yet hurt each other, and the founding of the Round Table, an idealistic harnessing of worldly strength in the aid of what's right -- and none of the songs engages with either of those... Until the end, when "I Loved You Once in Silence" gives us a hint of hurt and regret, and the final reprise of "Camelot" ("don't let it be forgot...") is genuinely touching. And because that comes at the very end, we leave feeling moved, and people keep wanting to produce it again. But it never really works as a coherent whole. 

[Rinaldo]

Last night was all about Gone with the Wind, for 6+ hours. But I was happier to see The Music Man, just before it. There's no movie musical that pleases me more, story and score, or is more impeccably cast.

[Wiendish Fitch]

TCM Remembers 2019

My only complaint, though, is the exclusion of Carroll Spinney. Come on, TCM, Spinney was in movies (Follow that Bird, anyone?), and Sesame Street is a pop culture landmark!

Other than that, a moving tribute to the talents we lost this year.

[WendyCR72]

Just coming to post the 2019 Remembrance video, but I see someone beat me to it. TCM is really the best at these. The songs they choose always seem to fit. Last year had more of a motif, if I recall, with the empty diner, railroad tracks, and such (and used "When The Night Is Over" by Lord Huron, which set the tone).

This year's seemed more streamlined but no less effective. From what I read, the song/artist is "Waiting" by Alice Boman.

[elle]

On 12/12/2019 at 2:16 PM, Rinaldo said:

Okay, since you ask; this is based on studying and teaching them for some time. And (I hope I needn't add) I don't mean that it's therefore somehow wrong to like any of these. In fact, I would put Camelot on any list of my all-time favorite musicals; it remains appealing despite whatever I find amiss in it.

It is posts like this one I wish I could use both the heart and light bulb emojis!

Thank you, Rinaldo, for taking the time to compose this post.  I appreciate the vast knowledge that members bring to this forum.  I enjoy learning back stories and 'tech stuff' about movies I thought I knew.

On that list, Paint Your Wagon is my favorite.  I never would have guessed that it originated on stage.  I looked up the synopsis for the stage version.  It may be because of my bias that I think the film story is much better. I see that the film was adapted by Paddy Chayefsky.  He did a wonderful job.  

Nor did I think of OaCDyCSF had been on stage either. How did they switch between present day and the past?

Speaking of stage to film adaptations, Gypsy has been on another channel. I've seen the movie many times but for some reason this time I felt a sense of despair during the song "Everything is coming up roses" that I had not before.  The song seems so hopeful but the looks on the faces of Louise and Bernie realizing that Rose's obsession had shifted to Louise and they would continue this life that both of them appear to want to get out of puts a whole different spin on that song.

On 12/14/2019 at 11:34 AM, Rinaldo said:

But I was happier to see The Music Man, just before it. There's no movie musical that pleases me more, story and score, or is more impeccably cast.

Another musical movie I love! One of my top ten romantic movie moments is the part of the song " 'Til there was you" that Harold sings to Marion, hugs her, switches to saying rather than singing the words and the music kicks in dramatically.  Gets me everytime.  So fortunate that tptb let well enough alone (quoting from the Wikipedia page)

Unusual for a musical film at the time, Morton DaCosta, who had directed the stage version of the musical not only directed the film, but produced it as well, ensuring that the film was faithful to the show. In addition to Preston, the actress Pert Kelton and the Buffalo Bills also reprised their stage roles.

And bless Cary Grant for telling Jack Warner "nobody could do that role as well as Bob Preston". Grant also reportedly told Warner that he (Grant) would not bother to see the film unless Preston was in it.

[VCRTracking]

Seeing The Sound of Music in it's annual holiday airing on NBC is a reminder of how great screenwriter Ernest Lehman's adaption was. His changes improved the stage version so much. Having Maria sing "Favorite Things" to the children during the thunderstorm instead of the Lonely goat herder song was brilliant. It connected it to the family and made it a running theme. I love the tense version of it that plays when they flee the Nazis to the Abbey.

Edited December 17, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Rinaldo]

9 hours ago, elle said:

Nor did I think of OaCDyCSF had been on stage either. How did they switch between present day and the past?

No doubt each production manages it differently, but it can be done instantaneously with lighting and movement of backdrops or furniture. On the original cast album one can also hear how the late great Barbara Harris shifted between a soprano sound in the past and a more pop adjustment for present-day.

9 hours ago, elle said:

Grant also reportedly told Warner that he (Grant) would not bother to see the film unless Preston was in it.

Which is wonderful, but also wonderfully ironic to look back on, because when the show was first produced onstage, Robert Preston seemed the least likely possibility. They tried hard to get Danny Kaye, then Gene Kelly, then Dan Dailey, and then they started considering guys like Milton Berle, Van Johnson (who did eventually play the part in London), Jason Robards, you name it. Preston was this stolid second-tier actor who played mounties and cowboys in second-tier movies, and nobody imagined he had any affinity for a big-personality musical role like this. And then he convinced them to let him audition, he revealed how much of his talent had been left unused in his previous career, and the rest is history. 

[Robert Lynch]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

No doubt each production manages it differently, but it can be done instantaneously with lighting and movement of backdrops or furniture. On the original cast album one can also hear how the late great Barbara Harris shifted between a soprano sound in the past and a more pop adjustment for present-day.

Which is wonderful, but also wonderfully ironic to look back on, because when the show was first produced onstage, Robert Preston seemed the least likely possibility. They tried hard to get Danny Kaye, then Gene Kelly, then Dan Dailey, and then they started considering guys like Milton Berle, Van Johnson (who did eventually play the part in London), Jason Robards, you name it. Preston was this stolid second-tier actor who played mounties and cowboys in second-tier movies, and nobody imagined he had any affinity for a big-personality musical role like this. And then he convinced them to let him audition, he revealed how much of his talent had been left unused in his previous career, and the rest is history. 

His best role was in Victor/Vitoria. I don't think anybody could have played that part at all. He was great in that as well. That laugh at the end was the perfect way to end the movie.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

With something like the 1949 Gigi that makes some kind of sense.  With The Irishman, though, why couldn't the captioner be working from the written script?   

FWIW, I've noticed that on episodes of Seinfeld, the captions differ from what's spoken in a way that makes me think the captions are the script, and the actor slightly changed the wording in the performance.

On 12/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

ETA:  I know what you're saying about displaying that volume of text onscreen, but it seems to me that people talked fast and furious in a lot of old Hollywood films and I've seen things like Unfaithfully Yours for example fully captioned.

I once saw Philadelphia Story in Paris, subtitled in English.  Talk about a challenge!  The next night I saw The French Lieutenant's Woman.  It was a much calmer experience.

On 12/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

For some reason we can't get CC at all for TCM in recent months, although we have it for the rest of the channels.

I've found that on some TCM movies, the listing says it has captions but what I see doesn't, even though the captions are working on other channels.  (Sometimes I lose captions completely on all channels, and have to reset the satellite receiver.)  But it's hit-or-miss on which TCM ones don't have them--it's not all of them.

On 12/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

Another funny thing about CC is the way in which  it automatically censors words it detects as racial slurs, even when they occur innocuously within a word - e.g., "suxxxxious." 

Maybe I'm not good at racial slurs--is this a real word?  I can't noodle it out. 

I happened to watch Gone with the Wind the other day.  I'll tell you what--that movie hums along at an impressive pace.  And Vivien Leigh's beauty still almost takes my breath away.

But I was living for Mammy. 

[PaulaO]

I know every word to every song of The Music Man.  However, Ursala Kitteh was not amused when I did "Trouble."  She jumped off the ottoman and stalked to her food dish.

Seems to be a lack of holiday movies on TCM.  They are running "Holiday Affair" like it was "A Christmas Story."  I watched HA once.  Not appealing at all.

[Wiendish Fitch]

19 minutes ago, PaulaO said:

Seems to be a lack of holiday movies on TCM.  They are running "Holiday Affair" like it was "A Christmas Story."  I watched HA once.  Not appealing at all.

Eh, it's okay, I guess, though I do feel bad for Wendell Corey, competing for Janet Leigh's affections with young, strapping Robert Mitchum. Poor dope never stood a chance.

I'll take Holiday Affair over It Happened on 5th Avenue any day of the week. God, but I hated Victor Moore's character (come to think of it, I hate Moore, period), and I was rooting for his sanctimonious, hypocritical squatter to die from exposure.

[benteen]

Saw Red Dust from 1932, which was great fun.

[Wiendish Fitch]

14 minutes ago, benteen said:

Saw Red Dust from 1932, which was great fun.

Everyone else can keep Marilyn Monroe... Jean Harlow is MY blonde bombshell! She's also great in Platinum Blonde, Dinner at Eight, and Libeled Lady.

[Sharpie66]

I looove Dinner at Eight! Marie Dressler’s takedown of Harlow at the end (“Oh my dear, that is something you need never worry about!”) is one of the most deliciously catty remarks in Hollywood history. 

[ratgirlagogo]

On 12/17/2019 at 3:15 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Maybe I'm not good at racial slurs--is this a real word?  I can't noodle it out. 

Suspicious. (sorry.)  I don't think being good at racial slurs is a goal any of us are shooting for, LOL.

I like Holiday Affair a lot - Janet Leigh is so pretty but tough, like Barbara Stanwyck (and like her daughter Jamie Lee).  Also, yes Mitchum was super-hot and it's a pleasure to see him play a romantic nice guy lead back when he was still mostly playing villains.

Edited December 19, 2019 by ratgirlagogo

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Suspicious. (sorry.)  I don't think being good at racial slurs is a goal any of us are shooting for, LOL.

I like Holiday Affair a lot - Janet Leigh is so pretty but tough, like Barbara Stanwyck (and like her daughter Jamie Lee).  Also, yes Mitchum was super-hot and it's a pleasure to see him play a romantic nice guy lead back when he was still mostly playing villains.

Thing I remember most is Mitchum feeling bad after learning Leigh's husband died in the war. World War 2 would still loom over America as seen in a lot of movies made in the late 40s and throughout the 50s like All About Eve, The Day the Earth Stood Still, White Christmas etc.

[ratgirlagogo]

Tomorrow as part of the remakes series they'll be showing two versions of the great Christmas themed Western Three Godfathers -  the one from 1936 and the one from 1949.  Three bad men end up doing a noble, unselfish thing, against their own practical cynical better interests.   I love them both but the one to watch is the 1936 version, which is really the superior movie.  Chester Morris as the bad-guy leading man, Lewis Stone (yes, Judge Hardy himself) as an Eastern intellectual gone West and gone wrong and Walter Brennan as a cheerfully opportunistic criminal. Darker in tone than John Ford's 1949 remake (the bad guys seem more bad, for one thing)  and the redemptive ending thus feels more painful, and more earned.

I like the Ford version too but it shows on other channels because it's John Wayne and John Ford - whereas this earlier version never shows anywhere but TCM.  I know a lot of you are "yuck, ugh, Westerns" but I do recommend you giving these a try - they aren't formulaic Westerns by any means, and like I said, they are great Christmas movies.

 

[roseha]

Speaking also of multiple versions coming up on TCM I see they will be showing the 1929 precode version of The Letter, starring Jeanne Eagels.   She was the first actress to be nominated for an Academy Award (for this film) posthumously as she sadly died as a result of drug use shortly afterward. 

Watching her performance as Leslie perjures herself on the stand and again in the final scene is seeing just an amazing feat of acting I think.  Well worth seeing.

Edited December 23, 2019 by roseha
Rewrite

[Rinaldo]

I agree about that early version of The Letter, and I'm so glad TCM shows it from time to time. Jeanne Eagels was a compelling actress.

I'll add my usual wish on this topic, that TCM would dig out the 1982 telefilm of The Letter (they do occasionally show TV material) and air it too. I think that Lee Remick was fully the equal of Eagels and Davis in the role.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Rinaldo

[VCRTracking]

20 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Tomorrow as part of the remakes series they'll be showing two versions of the great Christmas themed Western Three Godfathers -  the one from 1936 and the one from 1949.  Three bad men end up doing a noble, unselfish thing, against their own practical cynical better interests.   I love them both but the one to watch is the 1936 version, which is really the superior movie.  Chester Morris as the bad-guy leading man, Lewis Stone (yes, Judge Hardy himself) as an Eastern intellectual gone West and gone wrong and Walter Brennan as a cheerfully opportunistic criminal. Darker in tone than John Ford's 1949 remake (the bad guys seem more bad, for one thing)  and the redemptive ending thus feels more painful, and more earned.

I like the Ford version too but it shows on other channels because it's John Wayne and John Ford - whereas this earlier version never shows anywhere but TCM.  I know a lot of you are "yuck, ugh, Westerns" but I do recommend you giving these a try - they aren't formulaic Westerns by any means, and like I said, they are great Christmas movies.

I love the technicolor cinematography of the Ford version.

 

[Rinaldo]

Monday's primetime Remake pair began with The Shop Around the Corner. What a perfect little jewel of romance and comedy, masterfully written by Samson Raphaelson (from a Hungarian original), meticulously directed by Ernst Lubitsch. Margaret Sullavan and James Stewart both achieved their career peaks in this, in my opinion, and pair up charmingly and touchingly. 

Between my occasional viewings of the movie, I somehow manage a bit of amnesia about Joseph Schildkraut. Being aware of him mostly as an eminent elderly character actor, I start out assuming he's the quiet married salesman desperate to avoid confrontation -- but in fact he's the slick two-faced dandy who's stepping out with the boss's wife. (After all, at that date, he was just past 40.)

Dave Karger rightly pointed out the many times the story has been reused. I've found that when I've taught my History of Musical Theater course, there's always at least one student devoted to You've Got Mail, who's thrilled to discover that there's a wonderful musical (She Loves Me) using the same premise, and thereafter adopts it as their favorite musical. (As it pretty nearly is mine.)

[rmontro]

My cable company (Comcast) recently took TCM off my tier.  I don't know if it was their decision or if TCM decided they want more people to pay for subscriptions.  Anyway, it stinks.  There aren't that many opportunities to watch these old classic movies elsewhere.  

And speaking of Christmas, it had become a Christmas tradition for me to watch It Happened on Fifth Avenue every year.  Guess that won't be happening now.

Edited December 27, 2019 by rmontro

[allonsyalice]

9 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Dave Karger rightly pointed out the many times the story has been reused. I've found that when I've taught my History of Musical Theater course, there's always at least one student devoted to You've Got Mail, who's thrilled to discover that there's a wonderful musical (She Loves Me) using the same premise, and thereafter adopts it as their favorite musical. (As it pretty nearly is mine.)

I was DELIGHTED to watch In The Good Old Summertime last night for this very reason! (I missed the one before it! A shame. But when the presenter explained the premise, I screamed.) I spent the day celebrating my 25th birthday and this was the perfect way to cap it off. 

Excited to watch Meet Me In St Louis tonight and Singing in the Rain tomorrow. 

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, allonsyalice said:

I was DELIGHTED to watch In The Good Old Summertime last night for this very reason! (I missed the one before it! A shame. But when the presenter explained the premise, I screamed.) I spent the day celebrating my 25th birthday and this was the perfect way to cap it off. 

Excited to watch Meet Me In St Louis tonight and Singing in the Rain tomorrow. 

These are some of the best musicals ever made! I did my annual Meet Me in St. Louis viewing last night. I love it so much. The colors, the costumes, the house. I want to live in that house, it's so awesome. Every musical sequence is an absolute delight. 

[allonsyalice]

23 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

These are some of the best musicals ever made! I did my annual Meet Me in St. Louis viewing last night. I love it so much. The colors, the costumes, the house. I want to live in that house, it's so awesome. Every musical sequence is an absolute delight. 

I absolutely watch the Trolley Song clip on youtube every day. I love Judy in this move, she's so beautiful and talented, and she plays the love struck girl next door just perfectly. MMiSL is my go to cheer up/mental health clear movie. (Justice for Judy. She tried and fought so much, you just cant help but really feel for her.)

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:29 AM, Rinaldo said:

Between my occasional viewings of the movie, I somehow manage a bit of amnesia about Joseph Schildkraut. Being aware of him mostly as an eminent elderly character actor, I start out assuming he's the quiet married salesman desperate to avoid confrontation -- but in fact he's the slick two-faced dandy who's stepping out with the boss's wife. (After all, at that date, he was just past 40.)

This was one of those "I know it's a classic but I've never seen it" movies for me--until catching this airing. So glad I did. But the main reason I'm writing is that I went through the same process you did with Schildkraut, whom I mainly remember from Diary of Anne Frank. I too assumed he was the timid clerk until--I guess it was when the end credits rolled--I discovered he was the dandy.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/24/2019 at 9:29 AM, Rinaldo said:

Monday's primetime Remake pair began with The Shop Around the Corner. What a perfect little jewel of romance and comedy, masterfully written by Samson Raphaelson (from a Hungarian original), meticulously directed by Ernst Lubitsch. Margaret Sullavan and James Stewart both achieved their career peaks in this, in my opinion, and pair up charmingly and touchingly. 

Between my occasional viewings of the movie, I somehow manage a bit of amnesia about Joseph Schildkraut. Being aware of him mostly as an eminent elderly character actor, I start out assuming he's the quiet married salesman desperate to avoid confrontation -- but in fact he's the slick two-faced dandy who's stepping out with the boss's wife. (After all, at that date, he was just past 40.)

Dave Karger rightly pointed out the many times the story has been reused. I've found that when I've taught my History of Musical Theater course, there's always at least one student devoted to You've Got Mail, who's thrilled to discover that there's a wonderful musical (She Loves Me) using the same premise, and thereafter adopts it as their favorite musical. (As it pretty nearly is mine.)

I’m watching Shop again tonight. I just love it. I happen to like You’ve Got Mail as well. The last scene is filmed in Riverside Park, where I walk my dog often. I saw the Broadway revival of She Loves Me a couple of years ago. It was fun but doesn’t have the same romantic resonance of either of the other two. 

[AuntiePam]

All Fall Down with Warren Beatty, Brandon deWilde, Angela Lansbury, Eva Marie Saint, and Karl Malden.  It's the second movie where Brandon played the younger brother of a charismatic man undeserving of admiration.  The other one was Hud, of course.

It was a bit theatrical but very watchable, and deWilde was excellent, as was everyone else, even Beatty.

Watched the Reginald Owen version of A Christmas Carol today, and wonder if any of the versions told the whole story.  Seems like there's something missing in each one, or in the ones I've seen anyway.  The Alastair Sim version is my favorite -- his change is the most believable.

[Rinaldo]

4 hours ago, GussieK said:

I saw the Broadway revival of She Loves Me a couple of years ago. It was fun but doesn’t have the same romantic resonance of either of the other two. 

Acknowledging that we each have our own tastes and preferences, I would still say that She Loves Me has at least as strong a romantic resonance as any of the other versions. I hope you get a chance to see a different production some day. Unfortunately, that revival (which was, for better or worse, preserved on video) did serious injustice to the show, being too speeded-up, too choreographed, too vulgarized. (In sum: director Scott Ellis and choreographer Warren Carlyle didn't trust the material and thought it needed "help." It was precisely its subtle romanticism that they sacrificed.) Some superb performers like Laura Benanti, Zachary Levi, and Tom McGowan managed to come through to some extent anyway, but what a missed opportunity.

[Sharpie66]

13 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Watched the Reginald Owen version of A Christmas Carol today, and wonder if any of the versions told the whole story.  Seems like there's something missing in each one, or in the ones I've seen anyway.  The Alastair Sim version is my favorite -- his change is the most believable.

The Reginald Owen version was my first exposure to the story (thank you, Family Classics on WGN!), but the Sim version is my favorite filmed one. I just love his transformation! His weary expression when he’s trying to convey his changed view of life to his housekeeper is so expressive, and his hesitancy when arriving at Fred’s house is everything.

My favoritisms audio version is the Patrick Stewart one-man show. He is just wonderful in all the parts!

Edited December 26, 2019 by Sharpie66

[Charlie Baker]

Patrick Stewart brought back his one man stage version for a couple benefit performances (with high prices, of course) here in NY just recently.  I've said it here before it's a shame his stage performance wasn't captured on film or video. Maybe there's still a chance!

[VCRTracking]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:29 AM, Rinaldo said:

Monday's primetime Remake pair began with The Shop Around the Corner. What a perfect little jewel of romance and comedy, masterfully written by Samson Raphaelson (from a Hungarian original), meticulously directed by Ernst Lubitsch. Margaret Sullavan and James Stewart both achieved their career peaks in this, in my opinion, and pair up charmingly and touchingly. 

Between my occasional viewings of the movie, I somehow manage a bit of amnesia about Joseph Schildkraut. Being aware of him mostly as an eminent elderly character actor, I start out assuming he's the quiet married salesman desperate to avoid confrontation -- but in fact he's the slick two-faced dandy who's stepping out with the boss's wife. (After all, at that date, he was just past 40.)

Dave Karger rightly pointed out the many times the story has been reused. I've found that when I've taught my History of Musical Theater course, there's always at least one student devoted to You've Got Mail, who's thrilled to discover that there's a wonderful musical (She Loves Me) using the same premise, and thereafter adopts it as their favorite musical. (As it pretty nearly is mine.)

Pepi the delivery boy rules.

Edited December 27, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Inquisitionist]

On 12/17/2019 at 2:15 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

I happened to watch Gone with the Wind the other day.  I'll tell you what--that movie hums along at an impressive pace.  And Vivien Leigh's beauty still almost takes my breath away.

Vivien Leigh really was stunning in GwtW.  It's too bad that her illnesses and bad styling choices aged her before her time (IMO).  I recently watched the 1948 version of Anna Karenina, filmed when Leigh was 34, and while she often looked quite lovely, there were a number of scenes (including the one from which this still is taken) where her eyes looked soooo tired.  The eye make-up did not help.

While White Christmas was not on TCM (at least, I don't think it was), it seems fitting to discuss here.  I went to a singalong showing in Chicago last week and had a hoot.  There were a number of folks in costume and/or with props.  It didn't reach Rocky Horror proportions, but people did shout out certain lines, such as "Mutual, I'm sure."  My friend and I will have to up our game for next year's event.  Sundance aired it this week with lyric subtitles, so I'll study before next year.  😉

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:29 AM, Rinaldo said:

Monday's primetime Remake pair began with The Shop Around the Corner. What a perfect little jewel of romance and comedy, masterfully written by Samson Raphaelson (from a Hungarian original), meticulously directed by Ernst Lubitsch. Margaret Sullavan and James Stewart both achieved their career peaks in this, in my opinion, and pair up charmingly and touchingly.

This was my first time seeing this movie, and I thought it was wonderful.  For the life of me I couldn't figure out how he thought she was going to be okay with him fooling her for all that time.  Well played.

I watched it with captions, and upthread I opined that the captions on Seinfeld might be from the script, with the actors modifying the lines sometimes.  Well, in this movie, the captions don't transcribe the dialogue that's said, either--just like Seinfeld.  But I don't think they're from the script because at one point, the caption said "better" while the spoken word was "bitter," and it made a huge difference because it was something like, "Do you feel bitter?"

So my theory about script vs. actually performed doesn't apply here.

[tennisgurl]

So I finally got around to watching Meet Me in St. Louis, and it really is quite delightful. The colors look so vibrant and there is just so much life in it, even in the more bittersweet moments, especially Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas. 

I was also thrilled to get to catch The Shop Around the Corner this year, which is always a real treat. Its just such a cute classic romantic comedy. Margaret Sullavan and Jimmy Stewart are great chemistry, and all of the supporting characters are very well drawn and memorable. It often gets left out of the classic Christmas movie conversations, so I am always happen to see it appear on my screen and hear some appreciation for it. "Now I want your honest opinion..."

[rmontro]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:58 PM, allonsyalice said:

I absolutely watch the Trolley Song clip on youtube every day.

I had to look this up since you mentioned it.  I noticed she dropped her peanut bag at about the 1:14 mark.  Judy is a litterbug!

[allonsyalice]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

I had to look this up since you mentioned it.  I noticed she dropped her peanut bag at about the 1:14 mark.  Judy is a litterbug!

She is! But first, it was rudely foisted upon her and second, she got the shock of her life with John chasing after the trolley. She is at the most beautiful in that scene, she's a little nervous, a little funny, 100% charming.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:13 PM, allonsyalice said:

I was DELIGHTED to watch In The Good Old Summertime last night for this very reason! (I missed the one before it! A shame. But when the presenter explained the premise, I screamed.) I spent the day celebrating my 25th birthday and this was the perfect way to cap it off. 

Excited to watch Meet Me In St Louis tonight and Singing in the Rain tomorrow. 

Sadly, I can’t agree. I watched this for the first time in many years, out of curiosity.  I had only seen it once before, as a kid, before I’d seen Shop Around the Corner.  So I had no memory of the details.  I think I had avoided it since because I usually can’t take Van Johnson, and I suspected it would not be a good version of the story. My hunch was correct.  This is just a horrible mishmash version of the story. How does the violin playing girl fit in?   I didn’t at all believe the romance between Judy and Van. But I enjoyed Judy’s singing and dancing. 

[RealHousewife]

10 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

Vivien Leigh really was stunning in GwtW.  It's too bad that her illnesses and bad styling choices aged her before her time (IMO).  I recently watched the 1948 version of Anna Karenina, filmed when Leigh was 34, and while she often looked quite lovely, there were a number of scenes (including the one from which this still is taken) where her eyes looked soooo tired.  The eye make-up did not help.

Vivien during GwtW possessed one of the most beautiful faces I'd ever seen. I don't remember her as Anna Karenina as well, but it's on my DVR. The makeup back then was a lot heavier, right? I'm over 30, and without my makeup, I look so young. With the heavy coverage concealer and foundation I wear, I definitely look older. As soon as I can get my skin in better shape, I'm going to sheerer/lighter makeup. 

[mariah23]

Would you believe we already have a star for 2020’s TCM Remembers?  Sue Lyon aka Lolita, died yesterday at age 73.

Edited December 28, 2019 by mariah23

[Rinaldo]

6 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So my theory about script vs. actually performed doesn't apply here.

Inaccuracies like better/bitter aside, the captions for The Shop Around the Corner seemed to have been done by someone British, for a British audience. One example: the mentions of "candy" are subtitled as "chocolates" (the latter not being traditionally called "candy" in the UK -- the corresponding song in She Loves Me was also changed in this way for its original London run). I can't explain why this national bias should be present in TCM's copy.

[StatisticalOutlier]

10 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

One example: the mentions of "candy" are subtitled as "chocolates" (the latter not being traditionally called "candy" in the UK

I hadn't even noticed that.  So what in the world are they doing?

And why??  The captions aren't supposed to translate--they're supposed to transcribe.  If a script uses a word people who aren't from there won't understand, then that's just tough.  The people who are hearing it won't understand it, and there's no reason to monkey with it for people who might just be missing a word or two when listening.  Or even 100% relying on the captions (I pity those folks). 

When someone says something I can't quite make out and I ask them to repeat it, it drives me crazy when they reword the entire sentence.  It's not that I couldn't understand it because the combination of words was too complex; it's that I missed a couple of words and my brain just needs to fill in the blanks.  But instead of getting the blanks filled in, I'm having to wrestle with a whole new sentence, and it's hard (which is why I had to ask for a repeat in the first place), and I'm probably not going to get this version any better than the original one on the first try, and I don't want to have to ask twice, so I'll just blow it off, and then say something stupid because I didn't understand what the person was saying.

Hmm...that doesn't have much to do with captions.  But it's a good example of why the captions should just be what's coming out of people's mouths, if the purpose is to be helpful to people who can't hear the dialogue well enough to understand it.

ETA:  I have no beef with them changing song lyrics for its London run, and think it's a good thing if it helps the audience understand and doesn't otherwise ruin the song.  And I have no problem when a Ken Loach movie is subtitled even though it's technically in English and they change some words, because you can't understand them in the first place--it could be Russian the people are speaking because the accents are so impenetrable and there's a lot of slang.  But if what's being captioned is what a normal person could hear and understand without assistance (i.e. an American movie), then what the hard-of-hearing person gets should be exactly the same. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by StatisticalOutlier

[AuntiePam]

Conflict with Humphrey Bogart and Sydney Greenstreet.  The on-screen guide gives almost everything away.  Bogie is in love with his wife's sister.  He kills his wife.  His friend Sydney Greenstreet knows Bogie did it. 

It must have been a lot more fun to go to the movies when all we knew was what we saw on the lobby cards.

We see Bogie kill his wife and crash her car into a mountain crevasse.  He gives himself away when he describes what she was wearing.  Greenstreet realizes that Bogie saw his wife at a later time than what he admitted.  Viewers who paid attention will have picked up on this. 

Later we're given signs that she might still be alive.  Greenstreet (a psychologist) makes comments about how guilt affects the mind, so we know that he knows. 

Contemporary audiences were led to believe that Bogie was losing his mind due to guilt.  Today's audience will guess that Greenstreet was behind everything, manipulating, setting Bogie up to return to the scene of the crime.

The only tension is related to the clueless sister.  She's really quite dim. Bogie tells her he loves her, insists that she must also love him.  Her sister has disappeared, Bogie is showing no emotion because of it, and she behaves around him like everything is normal. I was worried for her.

 

 

[freddi]

23 hours ago, mariah23 said:

Would you believe we already have a star for 2020’s TCM Remembers?  Sue Lyon aka Lolita, died yesterday at age 73.

I’m surprised that TCM does not wait until the end of the current year to issue the remembrance.  Is this the usual timing (more than a week before the end of the year)?

[harrie]

1 hour ago, freddi said:

I’m surprised that TCM does not wait until the end of the current year to issue the remembrance.  Is this the usual timing (more than a week before the end of the year)?

Can't they edit the late Ms. Lyon into the mix?  I thought that was one reason for the transition shots in TCM Remembers.