Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

I would be more ok with the Frozen thing if they were coming out of a really strong season where they had really showed they could deal with canon character from other properties and compellingly fit them into the Onceverse.

 

But the twists on Neverland and Oz, on Pan and the WWW, were flawed in so many ways that even the interesting concepts they were clearly working off of simply didn't come through. Their execution was so bad that not only were the new villains muddled, their core characters had to be wrenched out of character to make it land where they wanted it to.

 

They can introduce as many new lands and characters and Disney proprieties as they want, but it's the still the same showrunners, still the same writers, still the same directors coming up with the stories...and a bunch of increasingly confused and checked-out actors trying to breathe life into characters that have steadily been turned into caricatures of their former selves. 

 

So I guess I'm in the "doom with a side of wait and see" mode. :-)

 

This post would be really good in All-Seasons, so I'm replying there.

[Souris]

So apparently the Jolly Roger will be in the season opener. 

 

Does that mean it's the ship the regal woman is seen on in the opening scene?

[retrograde]

Or they're reusing the Jolly Rodger set with some alterations. The guy who tweeted that is a fan, not a crew member (from what I can tell), so I'm not sure he'd know for sure. 

[Souris]

Good point.

[Serena]

It's Etta Bishop!! 

 

Love her!

[Mari]

In her Once incarnation, Elsa has long struggled to control her “chilling” powers, and once even — Frozen spoilers ahead! — unleashed upon her town an eternal winter.

 

Do these people not understand what eternal means?  Because if it ended--and it did--it wasn't eternal.

 

Well, she looks the part and her acting didn't make me have sympathetic embarrassment in Fringe.  Likely a much better choice than some I'd seen suggested.  She's probably going to get some serious hair enhancement, though.  That never seems to end well.

[daxx]

Very happy with casting. I loved Fringe and I am glad to see an alum in Once. Now two of my shows, this and Sleepy Hollow have Fringe actors.

[NotBothered]

So happy to see spoilers trickling in again.  Hopefully things will really starting heating up next week when filming starts again.

 

 

Or they're reusing the Jolly Rodger set with some alterations. The guy who tweeted that is a fan, not a crew member (from what I can tell), so I'm not sure he'd know for sure.

Until proven otherwise, I am on board with the idea that if it's not the Jolly, it's another naval ship from Arrendale.  If they're pushing Hook as the romantic lead now (which I have no problem with), it makes sense to start showing more back-story for him.  And I am ready for some new flashback fodder.  They really need to take a break from the Snowing v. Regina merry-go-round for awhile. 

 

The casting news is making me cautiously optimistic.  It's good to see some lesser-known faces, and some people that weren't on Lost.

[Petunia846]

Wow, lots of familiar faces for me now! I can't say I was a huge fan of her acting on Fringe though. *ducks*

[YaddaYadda]

So apparently the Jolly Roger will be in the season opener. 

 

Does that mean it's the ship the regal woman is seen on in the opening scene?

I read the posts below this one that it could be just some other ship but a small (huge part, no, all of me!) is hoping that it's the Jolly Roger/Jewel of the Realm, because everytime I think of the ship, I remember one of the final scene in the Crocodile when it's sailing.  Is it wrong that it's actually one of my favorite scenes in the whole series?

[daxx]

I loved the sailing scenes in The Crocodile. Few actual real world, non green screen shots of the Lady Washington.

I do understand studio work is far less expensive than location shots on a real sailing ship. I don't think the Jolly is coming back soon, but wouldn't be surprised if the the Jewel was involved in Elsa's parents death.

[Mari]

Until proven otherwise, I am on board with the idea that if it's not the Jolly, it's another naval ship from Arrendale.  If they're pushing Hook as the romantic lead now (which I have no problem with), it makes sense to start showing more back-story for him.  And I am ready for some new flashback fodder.  They really need to take a break from the Snowing v. Regina merry-go-round for awhile. 

 

 

 I don't think the Jolly is coming back soon, but wouldn't be surprised if the the Jewel was involved in Elsa's parents death.

This is kind of what I was wondering--are they likely to make Elsa's royal family the one Lt. Jones was serving? 

 

 I can't remember right now, but was the war Lt. Jones in against another kingdom--like Elsa's family's--or against the ogres?  Did they say?

[Artsda]

So glad it's not Elizabeth Mitchell.

[Serena]

They did not say what enemy Hook's kingdom was fighting against, as far as I remember. I would think it's doubtful that the king he was serving was Elsa's dad because of the timeline. We don't know exactly when Rumple trapped Elsa, but it can't have been too long before Emma and Hook landed in the past, because otherwise the Frozen character would be too old to appear in the present timeline. Even if the vase somehow stops Elsa's aging, Kristoff and Anna would keep getting old. They should be 30+ years older than her because she skipped a whole bunch of time, but they can say they've been in Storybrooke and haven't aged.

[YaddaYadda]

I know Lt mentioned something to Liam about their king committing genocide and wiping out a whole race.  Everyone seems to pretty much hate the ogres and want them gone, so would they qualify as this race?  That was left pretty ambiguous, I'd say.

[SilverShadow]

I was hoping for Katie McGrath but she may still be filming for Jurassic World. I did like the actress on Fringe and I'm more than willing to give her a shot.

[Shanna Marie]

I know Lt mentioned something to Liam about their king committing genocide and wiping out a whole race.  Everyone seems to pretty much hate the ogres and want them gone, so would they qualify as this race?

But how useful would a navy be against ogres? Do the ogres have a navy?

 

I would hope that Lt. Jones wasn't serving Elsa's parents because of that pesky genocide thing, not to mention lying to their own people about the real nature of their mission (even though Elsa's parents in the movie were pretty crappy). But the Jewel of the Realm could have been used on a diplomatic mission to that kingdom. And I figure that if Zelena was frozen in time during curse 1 without being in Storybrooke or the Coradome, then the other Frozen characters could have been frozen in time -- perhaps literally -- a la Sleeping Beauty, where the whole kingdom is frozen while the princess is out of commission.

[sharky]

Well, we don't know if the urn on the Jolly Roger was a related urn or not. Perhaps Elsa was trapped in one and Anna and Kristoff in another? It would be kind of interesting to see a conflict between Elsa and Hook if he had either served her father or was fighting against her father. Old grudges becoming new could be interesting and would also give Hook another character to work off of.

[Souris]

They did not say what enemy Hook's kingdom was fighting against, as far as I remember. I would think it's doubtful that the king he was serving was Elsa's dad because of the timeline. We don't know exactly when Rumple trapped Elsa, but it can't have been too long before Emma and Hook landed in the past, because otherwise the Frozen character would be too old to appear in the present timeline. Even if the vase somehow stops Elsa's aging, Kristoff and Anna would keep getting old. They should be 30+ years older than her because she skipped a whole bunch of time, but they can say they've been in Storybrooke and haven't aged.

 

Unless they were also urned up.

 

Ah, thank heavens, no stunt casting for Elsa!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Souris

[Camera One]

So glad it's not Elizabeth Mitchell.

 

LOL.  If she had been cast to play Elsa, I can already imagine the interpretation.  Elsa would be as abrasive as sandpaper and it would take an entire season to warm up to her.

 

Though making Elsa older would have added more gravitas to the role.  I suppose that would drive away teenyboppers though.  There is a danger that they are both casted so young.  

Edited July 3, 2014 by Camera One

[NotBothered]

My guess is that Anna and Kristoff are either trapped in other urns, or have been frozen, leaving us with a plot line about Elsa trying to find them and/or blaming herself for whatever happened.  Which would give us the unstable version we see in the movie, making her a non-villain antagonist.

 

In terms of the Jolly/not-Jolly being the ship in the opening sequence for the premiere... We could have a situation where Liam and Hook are from Hans's kingdom's navy (although we haven't had any news on Hans being cast).  It's not established whether his family is greedy/evil as well, or if he just has extreme younger brother syndrome.  Or it could be that Anna and Elsa are actually older than Hook, and Hook and Liam are from a post-Elsa Arrendale that has now been taken over by a less than savory ruler.  

 

I've really missed crazy spec based off of out of context filming pics...this is more fun than the actual show for me.

[Mari]

I've really missed crazy spec based off of out of context filming pics...this is more fun than the actual show for me.

Oh, definitely.  Especially given some of the actual writing choices the show's made.

 

I'd desperately like the  Frozen people to be from Rumple and Hook's original era.  Desperately.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'd desperately like the  Frozen people to be from Rumple and Hook's original era.  Desperately.

 

Replying in Speculation thread.

[Souris]

If Rumple is the one who urned up Elsa, then it would have had to have taken place sometime after Hook became a pirate. If it was a previous Dark One who urned her up and Rumple simply inherited the urn, then it could be Jewel of the Realm time.

 

All we really know is, there's a ship. But spec'ing on the spoilers is indeed fun!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

I'd desperately like the  Frozen people to be from Rumple and Hook's original era.  Desperately.

I'd like that because I'd love to see even younger Liam and Killian -- like, young enough to require actual teen actors and then fill in a few more gaps in the Jones brothers' history. Plus, I really want to see the origin story for how Killian got Colin's real-life scar. It seemed like that photo they used in the "men of ABC" promo highlighted the scar. And I'm still giddy over the Indiana Jones flashback that showed how Indy ended up with Harrison Ford's real-life scar, so I want more like that.

[FurryFury]

lus, I really want to see the origin story for how Killian got Colin's real-life scar.

 

Well, they didn't create one for Lana's, so I doubt Hook's going to get a better treatment than their pet Regina.

 

I don't mind the Elsa from Hook/Rumple era theory, but it would make Anna and Kristof's inevitable appearance somewhat contrived.

[stealinghome]

Can I just say, every time Adam or Eddie says something idiotic like

“The thing we love about Elsa is she is perceived to be a villain but is clearly misunderstood, and that goes to the heart of our show.”

I feel an uncontrollable rage coming on. I'm sure all the innocent people Regina and Rumpel murdered were just "misunderstood," too.

[Mari]

I don't mind the Elsa from Hook/Rumple era theory, but it would make Anna and Kristof's inevitable appearance somewhat contrived.

I can live with contrived, as long as I don't have to live with finding out something like Snow's previously unknown sister caused the trauma that led to Frozen by accidentally wearing the same dress to a ball, thereby forcing someone to become evil.

[FurryFury]

I think the outcry from season 3 will force Adam and Eddy to forgo the sudden relative reveal/contrived backstory connection tropes at least this time. Or at least I hope so. Of course, I hoped that after Papa Pan, they won't follow the same cheap gimmick so soon, and we got Zelena. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by FurryFury

[Rumsy4]

I really liked the actress as Etta. Yay! Funnily enough, in Fringe, she was in a similar position to Emma's--she had parents of the same age as herself. 

[Mari]

I think the outcry from season 3 will force Adam and Eddy to forgo the sudden relative reveal/contrived backstory connection tropes at least this time. Or at least I hope so. Of course, I hoped that after Papa Pan, they won't follow the same cheap gimmick so soon, and we got Zelena. 

Was there enough of a reaction that they'd notice?  I know we were pretty hard on them about it at TWoP, and here, but it seems like they're more facebook/twitter aware.   And apparently, Facebook/Twitter didn't react to things the same way as the boards did?  (Just piecing together from what others have said.  Not an authority.)

[FurryFury]

Was there enough of a reaction that they'd notice?  I know we were pretty hard on them about it at TWoP, and here, but it seems like they're more facebook/twitter aware.

 

I definitely think some critics/reviewers commented on that, plus, it seems, Once's ridiculous family is a running joke on Tumblr, at least (no idea about Twitter/FB).

 

And apparently, Facebook/Twitter didn't react to things the same way as the boards did?

 

The majority of the fandom is way less critical of the show than (ex)TWOPpers are, I think. Regina support is especially vocal, in general. 

[Aliasscape]

Wow, lots of familiar faces for me now! I can't say I was a huge fan of her acting on Fringe though. *ducks*

Ha, yeah you better duck. This is 100% the happiest news I've gotten since I found out they were doing Frozen.

 

Etta, oh my sweet, wonderful, beautiful Etta!

 

Oh and nice job, it's like Elsa's eyes are the majority of her face and that's true for Georgina as well. Blue eye shadow on those lids and she's good to go I think. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Aliasscape

[retrograde]

The AV Club's take on the Elsa casting made me laugh: Fringe actress scores major merchandising opportunity as Once Upon A Time’s Frozen princess.

 

It is interesting that others see it as a case of "ABC wanted to keep milking this cash cow and so decreed Once would now take on Frozen" while the fandom (myself included) has generally just accepted the showrunners' line of "We loved Frozen so much we begged ABC to let us do it, we're sooo lucky." I hadn't really questioned whether the push could be coming from the other end, but maybe it is?

 

(I put this in here instead of the media thread because this is where all the discussion of this news seems to be; but is this a spoiler? It has been reported in major media outlets, and it is definitely not a spoiler that Elsa will be part of next season. Are there people who don't want to be spoiled for casting? Is it even possible not to be spoiled for casting with the amount of attention this has received?)

[Camera One]

We've already seen Elsa on the show, so I don't think it's a spoiler for this casting information.  

 

The Anna/Kristoff casting might be considered to be a spoiler for some people, who want to be "surprised" which Frozen characters might show up.

 

I guess I'll reply to the rest of your post in the Media thread.

[Amerilla]

I did like Etta, so while I remain underwhelmed with the idea of a Frozen season, especially if it turns out to have a Hook tie-in, at least I can stomach the actress.

I'm sure A&E love Frozen, but I'm equally sure there were at least as enamored with the idea of attaching themselves to a hugely profitable Disney vehicle as the potential storyline possibilities. Although, again, given the weaknesses of the Neverland and Oz arcs, I'm surprised ABC/Disney didn't rescind the offer.

[Camera One]

Although, again, given the weaknesses of the Neverland and Oz arcs, I'm surprised ABC/Disney didn't rescind the offer.

 

LOL, it's a big risk for them too.  "What do you mean Elsa is Maleficient in disguise and she had an extramarital affair with Rumple's grandfather?"

Edited July 4, 2014 by Camera One

[patchwork]

I don't watch Fringe so I have no idea if this actress is good or not. 

 

I'm a bit attached to the idea that Killian is from an earlier version of King George/Charming's kingdom but Elsa having more connection to Storybrooke than just Rumple would be a good thing. Especially as Anna and Kristoff might be flashback exclusive.

 

Talking of fan theories- if Hans makes an appearance I really want him to have fire powers.  

[Aliasscape]

A crash course introduction to Georgina would be Fringe episode 4x19 "Letters of Transit". Bonus Lost fans, Henry Ian Cusak is in that episode as well. The episode surrounds her character so it's not like you'll sit through a whole episode to see her for 5 minutes. She begins appearing in the first 60 seconds. 

[Serena]

A crash course introduction to Georgina would be Fringe episode 4x19 "Letters of Transit". Bonus Lost fans, Henry Ian Cusak is in that episode as well. The episode surrounds her character so it's not like you'll sit through a whole episode to see her for 5 minutes. She begins appearing in the first 60 seconds. 

I just rewatched her final scene with Josh Jackson from that episode. I remember I cried so hard! And let's not even mention when she meets Anna Torv in S5, the waterworks were infinite. 

I hope she gets equally good actors to play off of in OUAT. Considering that in Fringe she managed to make us care about a father/daughter and mother/daughter relationship that was just sprung on us out of the blue, the Elsa/Anna relationship should be hugely emotional. If the Anna actress and the writers can make it so.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Serena

[Featherhat]

 

It is interesting that others see it as a case of "ABC wanted to keep milking this cash cow and so decreed Once would now take on Frozen" while the fandom (myself included) has generally just accepted the showrunners' line of "We loved Frozen so much we begged ABC to let us do it, we're sooo lucky." I hadn't really questioned whether the push could be coming from the other end, but maybe it is?

 

I can believe that like loads of other people A&E did enjoy Frozen and are looking forward to using it for their Disney themed show, but it’s certainly not a coincidence that they decided to use last year's no.1 movie for a half season arc whilst its still insanely popular.

 

I always assumed it was a fairly convenient and savvy marketing ploy/continuation of the hype machine but all parties involved first and formost. A&E get the biggest Disney phenomenon in years on their show and to twist and turn to their hearts delight, ABC is happy with the increased publicity/maybe ratings for OUAT and Disney probably likes the opportunity to extend the hype further with new material within a year of the movie whilst they contemplate how, if at all the franchise can be expanded and extended further.

 

And given that the publicity surrounding the casting and arc far exceeds any other character that’s ever been in the show so far (including the ever popular Ariel who was a big one last year) it seems to be working very well. Although who knows what the actual story arc will bring, or of it will end up pleasing anyone at all.

 

 

LOL, it's a big risk for them too.  "What do you mean Elsa is Maleficient in disguise and she had an extramarital affair with Rumple's grandfather?"

 

Yeah that's exactly where I was going with my last sentence. 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Featherhat

[tv echo]

Here's another pic of Georgina Haig in which she looks even more like Elsa:

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/once-a-time-georgina-haig-716119?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thr%2Fnews+(The+Hollywood+Reporter+-+Top+Stories)

 

I really liked her on Fringe so I like this casting.

Edited July 4, 2014 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's an article in which Georgina Haig talks about auditioning for Elsa:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/aap/article-2680172/Aus-Elsa-got-new-hubby-play-princesses.html

As for the role, the 28-year-old said the writers have remained true to the Elsa of the hugely successful Disney flick, while expanding her narrative journey.

 

"It's very much the spirit of the character," she explained.

Edited July 4, 2014 by tv echo

[Shanna Marie]

I really want to see the origin story for how Killian got Colin's real-life scar.

    

Well, they didn't create one for Lana's, so I doubt Hook's going to get a better treatment than their pet Regina.

We haven't seen Regina as a child yet. It's probably all Snow's fault, anyway. At baby Snow's coronation gala, Cora probably pushed Regina to put her into a more prominent position, causing Regina to fall and split her lip. So it's that evil baby Snow's fault she has a scar.

[stealinghome]

Although who knows what the actual story arc will bring, or of it will end up pleasing anyone at all.

I'm actually really, REALLY hoping that because it's Frozen, someone, somewhere at ABC/Disney has mandated that Adam and Eddie cannot.fuck.this.up. And maybe even have assigned them an overseer to make sure that they cannot mess this up. And maybe that that will translate into higher writing quality these season.

 

...

 

Yeah, I know it's a dream, but let me dream while I still can.

[kili]

Well, they didn't create one for Lana's, so I doubt Hook's going to get a better treatment than their pet Regina.

 

On the other hand, they've twice showed us origin stories for David's scar (the first time when Snow hit him with a rock and the second time when Snow clocked him with some kind of box).  Maybe the writers are so convinced of Regina's perfection, they haven't noticed she has a scar.

 

We haven't seen Regina as a child yet. It's probably all Snow's fault, anyway.

 

Naturally. Just another thing those poor Mill's women have had to endure at the hands of that evil Snow clan.

 

Yeah, I know it's a dream, but let me dream while I still can.

 

Piano Playing Hooked Dude from Tangled: Go, live your dream!

 

My dream is that Elsa is not a relative of either Regina or Rumple and that one of the good guys is the key to resolving the problem next season (and that they just don't stand around uselessly while Regina and Rumple save the day).

 

Adam & Eddie: Your dream stinks.

[maryle]

It will be nice if they go back to the season one style of story . But i'm sure they are most  interest in shock values instead of organic story  Telling and character interaction.  That too bad, it could be so good!

 

But I think they have found a really cool idea (for them ) and built everything else around it. 
So probably the knave had convinced rumple to urne up Elsa after she froze accidentaly over his sister and then drown. And Anna and Kristof have always been in story broke selling ice, they will reunite and with the help of thé sideline charmant clan will return to  Arrendal. At the Rumple or Regina are the only one who Can warm up Storybroke from the Éternel Winter.

 

The spoiler about the ship (rebuilt) is coherent with the story of Elsa's parents ship and the storm. So for now my headcanon

is the season begon with a naufrage. The question remain is if this naufrage will just glimpse of the past or something bigger .

 

I have good memories of fringe , I ending up binge watchingt it two years ago.  actress did a fine job as olivia daughter. And she absoluttly look the part . They really are good at casting people!

[stealinghome]

Maybe the writers are so convinced of Regina's perfection, they haven't noticed she has a scar.

Bwah! The crazy, sad thing is...I actually could believe this.

[Featherhat]

I'm actually really, REALLY hoping that because it's Frozen, someone, somewhere at ABC/Disney has mandated that Adam and Eddie cannot.fuck.this.up. And maybe even have assigned them an overseer to make sure that they cannot mess this up. And maybe that that will translate into higher writing quality these season.

 

I think they might be keeping a closer eye than they would on say the portrayal of Jack and the Beanstalk or Peter Pan etc, but it really depends on what don't.fuck.this.up means to both Disney and A&E. It's inevitable that there will be some twists, retcons, futurecons, Regina n Rumpcons that many non OUAT Frozen fans won't like but will be a part of how they get on the show in the first place. And the fact that there (probably) won't be any power ballads set to gorgeous animated ice sculpture , especially if Elsa's an antagonist. I know she was a quasi antagonist in the movie but only very barely. Now on the other hand if that means more awareness of what they're writing because its got a bajillion hyper fans so there's less random dumbassary for dumsassary's sake then yeah we can dream.

[Petunia846]

Ha, yeah you better duck. This is 100% the happiest news I've gotten since I found out they were doing Frozen.

 

*grins* I know that's a fairly unpopular opinion. Oddly enough I did like the character of Etta...storywise. Georgina had some great moments, I just thought there were others that fell a little flat compared to the geniuses she was up with on Fringe, but jumping into a final season in such a big role is tricky. I actually think she'll be great on Once if the writing is good enough.