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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

Curio

Curio

3 hours ago, Serena said:

What's up with the glove only on one hand?

It's essentially the same kind of fake gloved hand Hook would use in Season 3. Although I'm curious if this new one will have any modern technological enhancements and can move at all, or if it's just around for aesthetic reasons like his old fake hand.

Kktjones

Kktjones

18 hours ago, Curio said:

Rumple having the upper hand over Killian for the majority of this season makes sense. At this point in the series, Killian has been firmly established as being a Good Guy™, so the writers will be banking on the audience rooting for him right away in this cursed Seattle world. He's also one of the few returning main characters, so Hook is probably going to be given the role of the protagonist who is constantly belittled by Rumple, but little by little each week, Killian will get small victories over Rumple, kind of like Emma and Regina in Season 1. So Rumple will probably start Season 7 having a lot of power, but his arc will slowly tear him down and reveal him to be a darker person, whereas Killian will start Season 7 as a lackey and will have the cards stacked against him, but he'll work his way up to having more power and will ultimately help Henry with breaking the curse.

I like your optimism here, but I just don't trust the writers to handle this the right way. I think it will get tedious and frustrating really fast if these characters are cursed for any significant length of time.

 

18 hours ago, Curio said:

The arc is completed when Killian and Emma reunite in the finale

I think I could possibly enjoy this type of storyline, except it is 100% predicated on JMo returning for the finale (or one of the last episodes) and there is no guarantee of that happening. Without that reunion this storyline falls apart really quickly. I don't know if A&E would write a story building towards a big reunion at the end not knowing if the actress will return. They may all feel confident right now that she would, but what happens if she gets another role or decides to direct a movie and can't get away? Anyway, I'd like to think there will be payoff for an entire season of separation, but given their track record with pay-offs, I'm keeping my expectations extremely low...

Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

I just realized something: That police uniform actually gives Hook a totally different outfit that isn't the least bit piratey. It's probably the biggest diversion from his usual look other than the Lt. Jones uniform. Okay, so it's black or dark blue (probably dark blue), but it couldn't possibly have been made from that Simplicity "Dashing Pirate" pattern they've been using for all his costumes so far. On the other hand, it is a uniform, so it probably means that's the only outfit he'll wear in that time period all season, unless we get to see him off-duty (and then watch him wear a waistcoat and black leather jacket). Also, it means no earring and no guyliner. He really should be clean-shaven as a uniformed cop, but I doubt they'll go there, and without the scruff and without the guyliner, he'd look younger than Henry.

It looks like "Hyperion Heights" is a neighborhood rather than a building. But you've got to wonder how there's a time-bubbled magical neighborhood in a major city. It was a stretch but still worked as a small town isolated in Maine. But a neighborhood in Seattle? And it has to be a time bubble of some sort if Hook hasn't aged (depending on when in time this is).

I wonder if his accent will change -- will he inexplicably be a Seattle cop with a British-ish (or Irish) accent, or will Colin bust out the American accent (which I hope will have improved since The Rite after so many years living in Canada and working with Americans and Canadians)? In New York, an Irish cop might work, even if it's a stereotype. It's less likely in Seattle. And how are they going to explain the missing hand? Gulf War vet who became a cop in civilian life?

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

4 hours ago, Curio said:

Although I'm curious if this new one will have any modern technological enhancements and can move at all

I doubt A&E even know such prosthetics exist. They're not exactly the sensitive type.

Quote

And how are they going to explain the missing hand?

They're not. Also, I don't think Colin's American accent has improved much. I'm sure his faux-Brit accent will continue to be used without explanation. As usual, we're the ones wondering about plausibilities and backstories.

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Serena

Serena

2 hours ago, Kktjones said:

I think I could possibly enjoy this type of storyline, except it is 100% predicated on JMo returning for the finale (or one of the last episodes) and there is no guarantee of that happening. Without that reunion this storyline falls apart really quickly. I don't know if A&E would write a story building towards a big reunion at the end not knowing if the actress will return. They may all feel confident right now that she would, but what happens if she gets another role or decides to direct a movie and can't get away? Anyway, I'd like to think there will be payoff for an entire season of separation, but given their track record with pay-offs, I'm keeping my expectations extremely low...

Well, smart EPs would do what the Reign EPs did when Francis died, and they knew they wanted the show to end with Francis and Mary reuniting in the afterlife: film the reunion scene during the departing actor's last episode.

Of course, this is A&E...

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sharky

sharky

With regards to his uniform, it will be interesting to see what they do with his wardrobe this year with Eduardo gone. As much as I loved the elaborate costumes, the everyday stuff was kind of bad. Killian wore the same Storybrooke costume for several seasons, Emma's was starting to go downhill, and I still don't think Eduardo knew how to dress a post-pregnancy body considering how dumpy Snow and Belle looked by the end.

Reports are that Colon wasn't wearing guyliner, which will be disappointing but makes sense if he's a cop. And I didn't like the fit of the costume -- it seems a bit disheveled and not tailored like his other stuff. But again, maybe that fits the new version of Hook.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

41 minutes ago, sharky said:

Reports are that Colon wasn't wearing guyliner, which will be disappointing but makes sense if he's a cop.

On the other hand, I love the absence of the guyliner and thought it made little sense once he was in Storybrooke, but then I'm not a fan of makeup or piercings on men (I don't like it when men wear more makeup and jewelry than I do). It's a stretch for him to have the week's worth of scruff as a cop, but the guyliner would be right out.

42 minutes ago, sharky said:

And I didn't like the fit of the costume -- it seems a bit disheveled and not tailored like his other stuff.

Yeah, I did think it looked like it didn't fit well at all. Most police uniforms I've seen fit far better than that. That looked a bit more like SWAT gear than a patrol uniform, but without the body armor and other stuff that he'd be wearing with a SWAT uniform.

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

As usual, we're the ones wondering about plausibilities and backstories.

I'm sure it will be their usual case of not mining -- or even realizing -- the material they set up for themselves. Here we've got a character who's a military veteran with an amputation who became a cop given a fake identity as a cop -- a role common among military veterans -- and he's the right age and in the right time for him to be a Gulf War II veteran, a conflict known for personnel losing limbs. It practically writes itself for him to be a cop who's a jaded Gulf War veteran who lost his hand to an IED, and now he's still trying to serve and be a good man, although there's something important he feels should be in his life that's missing, but he chalks it up to PTSD from his time in the Sandbox and doesn't realize he's under a curse and that he's been separated from his wife (and, presumably, the rest of the family) and wrenched away from his home.

I would say that I'm a little sad about Hook losing his status as one of the few uncursed people -- no more "the Emma button" or "talking phone" or being baffled by the Internet or not recognizing Star Wars references -- but then they seldom used his fish-out-of-water status, anyway, so it's not like it will really change much other than him maybe being able to drive now.

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CCTC

CCTC

Seeing pictures of Colin in the cop uniform makes me think back of when I used to wonder if the show would just be better having Hook, Emma, and Charming going around solving fairy tale crimes.   Not sure I care to see Gold and Hook in a similar situation.  The chemistry of Colin/Morrison/Dallas would have worked well for them bantering through cases together.

I can see why they are doing another curse from the standpoint of it being cheaper to film a non-fairy tale setting and the suspense of when the characters will remember who they are.  On the other hand it seems like such a retread.  You think there would be some villain out there that would think of a better way of revenge than to have his or her enemies without their memories in a land without magic leading dull, but otherwise not bad lives.  In a way it made sense for the first curse with Regina's mentality and motive and being unable to kill Snow, and manipulation by Rumple.  Plus it was well plotted out and there was a bit of mystery and something unique about it.  However, it does make sense for every other villain to do the same curse (which originally was really hard to cast).  

The picture of the imposing - probably villainous - large man was a bit intriguing.  There really no threatening villain last year -- the Black Fairy never really seemed to have an evil presence, the Evil Queen only seemed to be a true threat in the episode she cursed Snow and Charming, and Jafaar, who had potential, was wasted.  It would be nice to have a really true big bad for the next season.

I wonder who Dania Ramiez is playing.  Guilty admission - I did watch Devious Maids.  She is not a bad actress, but her character over did the baby doll - semi-creepy girlish sexy voice.  She is not adverse to showing off her assets, so she would fit the main requirements they have for a villain.  Although it would be nice to take a break for the big busted evil queen or witch type.

CCTC

CCTC

(edited)
12 minutes ago, Serena said:

And they haven't gotten any better at the old "having clothes that fit an actress' bust" thing, either.

It is a little different - but it also looks like they have Adult Henry in one of Gramps Charming's leather suits.  I wonder if Dania will be able to kill anyone with her tears (semi-obscure Heores reference).

Edited by CCTC
scenicbyway

scenicbyway

42 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I'm confused now. They already did Cinderella. Unless of course this is a different version or something.

Well, it's "Henry's" version vs the other writer's I guess.  I guess they think the audience is dumb enough to forget that they've already done Cinderella.  I guess Henry is technically a prince, so it works?  What doesn't work is the absence of Emma and the Charmings with Henry's continuing story.  There must be flashbacks to the past?! How do they do that without them?

maryle

maryle

That what I was looking for more spoiler about the new" epic couple"

and see them together and now that I have... Don't feels like!

I do find adult Henry hot but in this pic he look wooden and the idea of new Cinderella in this not reboot who already" parallel "so much season 1!

There a point where it stop to be parallel and become a cheaper copy of everything they already done better!

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

(edited)

Ok...twitter going crazy with info from d23 and no doubt much of it will remain speculative up until sneek peeks, leaked footage and clarfication from interviews..

BUT from i can understand is that Henry goes into different books and meets different versions of the same characters; hence different Cinders.

If these are all variations of the characters we know...Killian and Emma that we know and love may be still living off screen in their happy beginning..

There is also mentions of animated sequences.

Edited by PixiePaws1
Trying to only post accurate info
MadyGirl1987

MadyGirl1987

2 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

I'm liking this idea of an Enchanted Forest 2.0/AU versions of the characters.

Me to! Especially since most fairy tales have multiple versions, varying from culture to culture. Look at how the Disney films adapted their stories so they differ in many ways from previous tellings. It could be interesting to see Henry interact with and react to different versions of family and friends.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

I think I sort of get why they're doing this. The writers want to keep milking the classic Disney canon and are afraid to explore less popular fairy tales. But this is going to get really confusing really fast.

Henry will venture into bookworlds like that of Cruella's I suppose. How is Henry's new wife a version of Cinderella? Because she has evil step-sisters? Will glass slippers be involved at some point? I bet these "new" versions will be little more than name-drops, as has been the trend in recent seasons. I also agree that there will be yet another version of the Evil Queen, somehow still played by Lana (groan). 

These new characters are different versions of fairytale characters, but Killian, Regina, and Rumple are cursed versions of their original iterations? This would've been the perfect opportunity to leave their Happy "Beginnings" intact and truly reboot the Show. But A&E can't help messing with their own writing, I suppose.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

Quote

Season 7 is not “a complete reset or reboot. It’s a new chapter.” Kitsis then emphasized that they’re “not interested in erasing those six years or [making] people feel like they wasted six years.”

But isn't S7 supposed to appeal to new watchers without knowledge of the show's mythology? Is it just a continuation, or is it meant to be a reboot? Make up your minds, A&E.

Quote

I think I sort of get why they're doing this. The writers want to keep milking the classic Disney canon and are afraid to explore less popular fairy tales. But this is going to get really confusing really fast.

The fairy tales on the show were meant to be what really happened. Now that there are so many copies of the characters, it's all very artificial and relative. If there's a bajillion other Snow Whites out there potentially, what's so special about the one on the show? She's not unique. I'm not even talking about alternate timelines or the infinite multiverse theory. I'm talking about the crappy "realms of story" that can be created with a mere genie wish. So tell me - is this Real!Cinderella, or Fake!Cinderella? If Regina rips her heart out and crushes it, is it murder or just proving a point?

  • Love 4
InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

This different versions of the same tales thing actually makes sense to me in an "all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again" way. Perhaps they will finally explain why versions of Cinderella and Snow White have been known to our world for hundreds of years when the "real" versions apparently existed concurrently with the early 1980s.

Then again, they're creatively bankrupt, so probably not.

  • Love 3
Rumsy4

Rumsy4

17 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

This different versions of the same tales thing actually makes sense to me in an "all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again" way. Perhaps they will finally explain why versions of Cinderella and Snow White have been known to our world for hundreds of years when the "real" versions apparently existed concurrently with the early 1980s.

It does seem like an interesting set-up to explain the different versions of "Snow White". But sadly, it's TSTW.

If there are supposed to be multiple versions of Cinderella, and Henry married one of them, what happened to Cinderella's Prince in that Realm? Did the prince end up marrying the Evil Step-sister instead? Did Henry mess up the True Timeline of that Realm? 

  • Love 2
InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

(edited)
25 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

If there are supposed to be multiple versions of Cinderella, and Henry married one of them, what happened to Cinderella's Prince in that Realm? Did the prince end up marrying the Evil Step-sister instead? Did Henry mess up the True Timeline of that Realm? 

Henry could be that prince. 

So the Enchanted Forest "flashbacks" (or possible flashforwards?) of Lucy during the season six finale's flashforward, are we to assume they were in the realm where Cinderella 2: Enchanted Boobalo comes from? Anyone remember how they were captioned? I remember they used the cheap trick of saying something like "during a dark time" but I can't remember if they actually said they were in the EF or not.

Edited by InsertWordHere
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

3 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Henry could be that prince. 

But he's from Misthaven/Real World Version1. Presumably there's another Prince in this version's Cinderella (terminologies are already getting confusing).

Does this mean Anastasia in OUATiW is from a different Cinderella story-realm, and that explains why she wasn't Ashley's step-sister? 

Quote

So the Enchanted Forest "flashbacks" (or possible flashforwards?) of Lucy during the season six finale's flashforward, are we to assume they were in the realm were Cinderella 2: Enchanted Boobalo comes from?

Heh. Very likely. 

InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

But he's from Misthaven/Real World Version1. Presumably there's another Prince in this version's Cinderella (terminologies are already getting confusing).

Does this mean Anastasia in OUATiW is from a different Cinderella story-realm, and that explains why she wasn't Ashley's step-sister? 

My head hurts, but I don't think every "role" would have to already exist in these new worlds, just like our already existing characters sometimes played multiple roles in different stories. 

Could Anastasia, whose husband Will used to date Henry's stepgrandmother, be Henry's stepsister in law (assuming Not!Ashley is Henry's wife)?  I can't with this family tree, I swear. 

KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

Please, these are the same writers who said to Colin, “You are doing really interesting stuff. The kind of stuff that’s so interesting, people should watch it.”  They've got nothing. There is zero thought given to any of this. Don't even try. It's an AU. It's not real. Except when it is. Some characters are real, but killing others means nothing except that the living characters are upset about the murder of their version of the characters. Don't worry, though, consequences are something they don't do.

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kitticup

kitticup

(edited)

I went to D23 and felt the EW covered the panel well.

I will add that explaining the Cinderella thing, E&A talked about how different cultures had their own versions of a character of Cinderella so you could different versions of the same character.  

Second episode is very Hook heavy.

A&E seemed to be trying to make all fandom happy.  They seemed to try to stop trolling, like when asked if other actors might appear in episodes, they started to hedge, but then said definitely yes.  

I was surprise we didn't get any sneak peaks.  The energy was a little lower than before.

ETA:  I was surprised that they didn't take questions from the audience.  

Edited by kitticup
Typos and add a sentence
  • Love 2
Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)
1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

Could Anastasia, whose husband Will used to date Henry's stepgrandmother, be Henry's stepsister in law (assuming Not!Ashley is Henry's wife)? 

My head is starting to spin a little. lol Love the monicker Not!Ashley. 

Quote

They seemed to try to stop trolling, like when asked if other actors might appear in episodes, they started to hedge, but them said definitely yes.  

I noticed that Adam quickly followed-up his typical "We'd be very disappointed if they didn't" with a "yes". :-p

Quote

They've got nothing. There is zero thought given to any of this.

Oh, I agree. It's just that we can't help trying to straighten the dog's tail in this forum.

Edited by Rumsy4
  • Love 3
Rumsy4

Rumsy4

1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

My head hurts, but I don't think every "role" would have to already exist in these new worlds, just like our already existing characters sometimes played multiple roles in different stories. 

That would be awfully convenient for Henry, woulnd't it? :-D Are we sure Henry won't have used his author powers to write himself as Not!Ashley's Prince in this story Realm?

RadioGirl27

RadioGirl27

3 hours ago, kitticup said:

A&E seemed to be trying to make all fandom happy.  They seemed to try to stop trolling, like when asked if other actors might appear in episodes, they started to hedge, but them said definitely yes.  

The answer about the CS baby was very "trolly" to me. The answer is clearly no, but they try, once again, to lie to the shippers ti make them watch the premiere.

2 hours ago, Anna35 said:

Sounds kind of rapey tbh. 

It's A&E, they would think it's super romantic, like Regina and Graham, Neal and Emma or Rumple and Belle.

  • Love 2
superloislane

superloislane

It's just so lazy. I feel like they went in to their 'brainstorming' sessions and said 'Hey what if we just did the same characters again...but different?' 'Brilliant! Lunch?'

Aren't the fairytale characters supposed to be real people who didn't know they had stories written about them somewhere else? But now all the characters are just versions and none of them are particularly real? Do Snow and Charming exist somewhere else and have another version of Emma? Are the different versions of Hook, Rumple and Regina all played by the same actors but no one else is? I might have been slightly interested if they had just completely rebooted the show and had no actors from the previous show - it would have made it less confusing for everyone.

And I feel kind of bad for the writers who are constantly saying how epic and swoon-worthy Henry and new Cinders' love story is. It's starting to sound a bit desperate. They can't just say 'you'll love it' it always has to be 'It's as epic as Snow and Charming!' and 'They are the most fun to write and you'll swoon over them!'. Even Jane Espenson asked people to give them a ship name already! If people like it and think they have chemistry then the ship love and name will come naturally - you can't force people to see them as epic and amazing. It's obvious that they want this to be their big ship which will trend on Twitter and have people swooning which I find to be a little sad.

  • Love 7
Rumsy4

Rumsy4

28 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

For me there is a disconnect in that Andrew looks nothing like Jared...

For me--that's a plus. lol

JE asking for a ship name before the season even starts sounds a bit pathetic for sure. But I'm sure there are fans who will play along. 

Sorry--but New!Cinders/Not!Ashley's boobs are popping out in a not pretty manner. Between that and Colin's loose-fitting cop clothes, the change in costume designer doesn't seem for the better so far. At least Eduardo knew how to dress people in fairy tale costumes for the most part. 

  • Love 4
Serena

Serena

(edited)

Yeah, but he did the boob popping out thing too, so I'm gonna have to guess it's a request from above. Gross.

One of the FIRST rules of shipping is that you can't force the ship. Fans like to "discover" the couple themselves; they like the excitement and uncertainty of a new ship, they like to be suprised and enthusiastic when they unexpectedly have a great moment. They don't like to be told "Here's a new ship you're gonna love, please market it for us by inventing a ship name!".

It's also the reason why it's so dumb they're already declaring Henry and not!Ella True Love. What if the same thing happens as the last time a relative of Henry's had a kid too young with someone... and they have absolutely no chemistry and another ship is far more popular? Are they gonna walk back the TL stuff, give them a divorce, or force it? So so dumb.

At the very least, they should have cast two/three Latina actresses of the right age, have Henry interact with all of them, and make "the mother" the one he had more chemistry with.

Edited by Serena
  • Love 10
CCTC

CCTC

1 hour ago, Serena said:

One of the FIRST rules of shipping is that you can't force the ship. Fans like to "discover" the couple themselves; they like the excitement and uncertainty of a new ship, they like to be suprised and enthusiastic when they unexpectedly have a great momen

At some point the show became too focused on creating true love couples.  They should have never declared Robin was Regina's true love before having the actors or the characters interact.  It was also way too early to declare that Regina deserved a true love before she really had shown any redemption.   To a lesser degree, they had the same problem with Belle and Rumple.  They declared them this golden couple and then were stuck with a pairing that really did not work long term, esp when Rumple kept toying with evil.   Hook and Emma worked because they were able to develop over time.  If the characters/actors would not have meshed they could have easily changed course.  Even then, I think the individual characters suffered at times because of the show's heavy focus on the romantic relationship angle.

They actually lucked out that Goodwin and Dallas had great chemistry, because while they got sidelined later, them working as a couple was critical to season 1.  If there plan is for Henry and Cinderella doing the same thing for the reboot, they better hope lightening strikes twice.

  • Love 6
Guest

Guest

7 hours ago, kitticup said:

A&E seemed to be trying to make all fandom happy.  They seemed to try to stop trolling, like when asked if other actors might appear in episodes, they started to hedge, but them said definitely yes.  

That seemed like trolling to me.  They can say they didn't lie if Granny makes a 30 second guest appearance, but I suspect that everyone came away hoping that Snowing or Belle would also make guest appearances.

There was also a distinct waft of desperation and fear in most of their statements that I am petty enough to appreciate. Like saying Colin is doing interesting stuff, so interesting that people should watch.

As to the rest of it.  My head hurts just trying to wrap it around the idea of Henry writing the first book.  That is enough to give me a migraine but now he's book hopping so they can have flashbacks.  And there are different versions of all the characters.

Its not a bad idea in and of itself, but its too complicated not to be the sole focus of the season..  If they were going to do something like that, they needed to scrap a lot more about the prior six seasons than they seemed to.  Just turn it into a Dr Who like show where Henry has adventures through fairy tale lands and occasionally returns home to Storybrooke when guest actors are available.

But instead they had to keep Regina, Rumple, and Hook and give them Seattle identities along with some sort of memory curse and a mystery about what happened to Storybrooke.

Their stubborn refusal to let go of the current time line / flashback structure continues to be one of main problems with this show.  It doesn't work well with A&Es inability to write a coherent story in one time line, much less two. 

One other thing, I'm calling it now.  The animated flashback is going to be a Regina centric where we see EQ and Robin Hood hop off to the Disney version of that movie where they are all cartoon animals.

Guest
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