MedievalGirl February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Lily mentioned being adopted. Maybe she was the one under the stairs. Link to comment
Curio February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Great, another pointless flashback for a pointless character. Aren't you glad they're really focusing on our "core characters" this half season? [/eyeroll] Seriously, though. Is there a single episode that's focused on one of our main characters? (Not including Robin, I don't consider him a core character.) A lot of people responded to just about every 4A spoiler with "THIS IS THE WORST I HATE THIS SEASON ALREADY" but ultimately, the season and its storylines were pretty well received overall (the finale not withstanding). I don't know, I thought there was the usual mix of "yays" and "nays" for 4A. I think there was some trepidation for how much the Frozen storyline would take over, but I remember a lot of people being excited over hints about 4A being more Emma focused, that Emma was going to get the most flashback screen time she's ever gotten since the beginning of the show, there was a lot of intrigue about Hook's missing hand, there was a ton of excitement over Captain Swan's first date, we were curious about how they'd handle Will's introduction, and there was fun speculation over who'd get the Kai frozen treatment. But for 4B? Ugh. I'm usually a pretty neutral person and try to weigh both the good and bad equally...but...god this second half just seems like it's going to be bad. At this point it really feels like they are consciously trying to make me quit watching. No kidding. We'll see how things go in 4B, but if they end this whole season on another "Heroes and Villains," just about the only thing that could bring me back for 5A is if they promise me an entire half season of Hook, Emma, and Charming galvanting through enchanted lands not called Storybrooke while they battle with Hook's dad - Davey Jones. And if Belle still has a spine and hasn't broken down and forgiven Rumple yet, she can tag along I suppose. And Will too, if they actually flesh him out and he's not completely useless like he was in 4A. 3 Link to comment
Writing Wrongs February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I'm going to call it right now, Wednesday, Feb 18 at 12:56PM, Lily is the Sorcerer's daughter. I agree. Hence the star birthmark. Since they called her Lilith, I found this about Lilith in Marvel comics: is a demon sorceress who is known as the "Mother of All Demons". She first appeared in Ghost Rider, Vol. 2, issue 28 (August, 1992) She has a vast ability to manipulate the forces of magic for a variety of effects I could see them doing something like that. Edited February 18, 2015 by Writing Wrongs Link to comment
Shanna Marie February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 It's weird that they're throwing everything including the kitchen sink into this arc, when you'd think that Rumple cast out of Storybrooke and magicless and wanting to get his powers back, get the dagger back, and find a way to complete the ritual to free himself from the dagger would be conflict enough for an arc. And then you'd think Maleficent on her own would be enough for an arc. Why throw her in with two other entirely unrelated villains? I'd rather they dig deep into one story than throw a zillion stories at us. 2 Link to comment
regularlyleaded February 18, 2015 Author Share February 18, 2015 (edited) These showrunners strike me as the type that solve all their problems by throwing more stuff at it instead of sitting down and thoughtfully debugging the problem - they have no concept of what it is to methodically step through a debug process that would allow them to figure out what their problem is and then come up with an appropriate solution (that fixes that specific problem and doesn't just add five million other problems). Their idea of cleaning a mess of red wine that has splashed all over the carpet is pouring more red wine onto the carpet. These guys would be the ones that would fix a bland casserole, not by adding a touch more salt because that's all it really needed, no, they wouldn't even bother tasting it to see what the problem is and would simply empty the entire spice rack into the dish, stir it up and serve it up all smiles. Edited February 18, 2015 by regularlyleaded 5 Link to comment
FurryFury February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I agree. Hence the star birthmark. Since they called her Lilith, I found this about Lilith in Marvel comics: I could see them doing something like that. Actually, Lilith is from Judaical mythology originally, or something like that. She was Adam's first wife, created as an equal to him (while Eve was created from his rib and was made to be subservient). She often shows up in fantasy-ish pop culture. And yep, originally, she was considered evil and stuff (and in fiction she's usually a villain). Edited February 18, 2015 by FurryFury 1 Link to comment
Souris February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Obviously if she's a villain, it's completely Emma's fault. How DARE Emma not take kindly to being lied to? Link to comment
retrograde February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Actually, Lilith is from Judaical mythology originally, or something like that. She was Adam's first wife, created as an equal to him (while Eve was created from his rib and was made to be subservient). She often shows up in fantasy-ish pop culture. And yep, originally, she was considered evil and stuff (and in fiction she's usually a villain). Having bad flashbacks to True Blood... Link to comment
FurryFury February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 Eh, it wasn't the worst thing True Blood has done. I'm still glad I've stopped watching before the last season and especially the ending. I think Lilith's also been on Supernatural, although I don't know the details. Link to comment
Rumsy4 February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure, at this point, what could make me want to continue watching. I hate Robin and Outlaw Queen - and we'll get more of that. I hate how Regina's redemption has been handled and how everyone bends over backwards for her - and we'll get loads more of Regina and her flashbacks. I don't care about older Disney stuff, especially villains - we get not one, but THREE of Disney villains. I hated Lily - we get Lily. I didn't care about August - we get August. Not to mention more of Rumple's manpain. It seems like a smart move to tie in something from Emma's past (and 4A) into 4B arcs by bringing Lily back, but I doubt any of it will get more than a superficial treatment. Everything gets resolved by a hug or a kiss. At this point, there are so many characters that they simply don't have the screen-time to give in-depth treatment to anything. It's a shame, as they have good core actors, and the writing shows peeks of occasional brilliance. Edited February 18, 2015 by Rumsy4 Link to comment
KingOfHearts February 18, 2015 Share February 18, 2015 (edited) It's weird that they're throwing everything including the kitchen sink into this arc, when you'd think that Rumple cast out of Storybrooke and magicless and wanting to get his powers back, get the dagger back, and find a way to complete the ritual to free himself from the dagger would be conflict enough for an arc. Rumple going crazy from not having magic and coming back as full sparkly imp would have been entertaining. Mr. Gold has largely become a boring character. Lily mentioned being adopted. Maybe she was the one under the stairs. Unless... Lily was the Author or Sorcerer, then got banished to the Land Without Magic. I don't know. Edited February 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
KAOS Agent February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 I don't know about anyone else, but I'm taking the green olives as a sign of the upcoming season. I hate green olives, so it's not looking good. If the title were "Lilly" I could try to pretend that Hook is binge watching Veronica Mars and pops up at random times throughout the episode to pester Emma with his theories on who killed Lilly Kane. Not looking forward to the idea that Emma still feels guilty about her reasonable teenage reaction to being lied to and resulting in her being thrown back into the system. Here's the thing about the spoilers for this half season. Everything is Regina or Queens of Darkness. That's it. An entire season of Regina will cause me to tune out forever. I know that there is a large group of vocal fans who love her, but building an entire season around Regina and her relationships with the eleven million new villains is a bad idea. 3 Link to comment
retrograde February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Filming notice for Fort Langley location shoot tomorrow. In front of community hall (used as Storybrooke Town Hall), in front of coffee shop, at bus stop. 1 Link to comment
Mari February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) Forget giving Emma her own place to live. I'm thinking with these spoilers that she needs a bus ticket out of town. Well, she has said several times that she wanted to go back to New York, but that was apparently crazy talk and she's over it, now. I guess it's easier to keep Henry and herself safe when they're surrounded by villains? I guess? Edited February 19, 2015 by Mari Link to comment
Camera One February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Lily is Young Regina. She ran away from Cora's abuse, when she got a magic bean. She went to the World Without Magic, and went from the frying pan into a fire, because she has such bad luck. Eventually, Cora found a way into the World Without Magic, took Lily back and erased her memory and her star birthmark. When Regina finally remembers, she will realize that her kinship with Emma stretched so far back. They became friends despite being separated by time and space, kindred sisters forever and for always. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) Lily is Young Regina. If we didn't assume Adult Lily already, I would buy A&E pulling that. It's eerily plausible on this show, really. Edited February 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
retrograde February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Actress who plays young Lily says she's headed to Vancouver. Guess that's no surprise. Emma, Snow, Regina filmed by the lake today. Emma was wearing the classic red jacket. Link to comment
Camera One February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) Actress who plays young Lily says she's headed to Vancouver. Guess that's no surprise. Oh great. Of all the awesome guest stars from fairy tales we've only seen once, we get her again? Edited February 19, 2015 by Camera One Link to comment
The Cake is a Pie February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Hey, how's this for a novel idea? How about for once someone from Emma's past feels guilty for what she did to Emma and seeks her out to apologize or atone for the past wrong. How about you do that, potential adult Lily? 11 Link to comment
Camera One February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 More like Emma ruined her life by letting her stay with the foster father who was abusive and actually an evil wizard trying to steal her magical powers. Link to comment
Serena February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 More like Emma ruined her life by letting her stay with the foster father who was abusive and actually an evil wizard trying to steal her magical powers. It sounds ridiculous, but it's this show. I can totally see them twisting it like "14 year old homeless parentless Emma should have found a way to get Lily out of her abusive home, the fact she didn't proves she's not a Hero. See! Heroes and villains are not who we think they are. This is so deep". Link to comment
RadioGirl27 February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Actress who plays young Lily says she's headed to Vancouver. Guess that's no surprise. Emma, Snow, Regina filmed by the lake today. Emma was wearing the classic red jacket. Someone still doubts that we are getting a Lily flashback? This show is so frustrating. And ugh at Emma and Regina shooting together again. 2 Link to comment
YaddaYadda February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 So is it me or there even less spoilers than usual? 1 Link to comment
Delphi February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Its definitely not just you. The only reason I'm still in this thread is because the spoilers haven't really given me any meaty details. I'm hoping that means that the writers have some epic stuff hidden away. Link to comment
retrograde February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 It feels like fewer spoilers to me, too, but part of that may be that there have been fewer location shoots/interesting location shoots, and the fact that Comic Con comes before the first half-season. Also, TV Guide changed up the way it does spoilers and now does fewer (albeit longer) ones. Some of the TV Line spoiler columns seem to have been less frequent lately, too, but that may be all in my head. Link to comment
kili February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Some of the TV Line spoiler columns seem to have been less frequent lately, too, but that may be all in my head. Ausiello seems to be the biggest Once TVLine spoiler and he hasn't posted a spoilers round-up since Jan 27th (usually he and Matt are publishing spoilers a half a week apart, now it's just mainly Matt once a week). Ausiello posted earlier this week that his husband died of a fast acting cancer, so I totally understand that he would be taking time off to deal with that (Ausiello hasn't really posted anything since his death on the 5th). Link to comment
YaddaYadda February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Ausiello posted earlier this week that his husband died of a fast acting cancer, so I totally understand that he would be taking time off to deal with that (Ausiello hasn't really posted anything since his death on the 5th). If that doesn't put things back into perspective about bitching and whining about spoilers or lack thereof, then I don't know what does. That is just so very sad. 9 Link to comment
RadioGirl27 February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) If we needed any more confirmation that she is playing Lily, this pic from her instagram is quite definitive. Edited February 19, 2015 by RadioGirl27 Link to comment
Dirtybubble February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Lily who?! I had to look this character up on wiki simply to remember who she was and now we're getting a storyline about her?? *pfft* When the season took it's break in Dec I was actually kinda jazzed about the 2nd half. Cruella, Maleficent, AND Ursula teaming up with Rumple--BRILLIANT! The only thing that would have made it more brilliant is if they cast Glenn Close as Cruella (I know, I know but I can dream, right?) So why the heck did they make a big production about them and what, oh by the way let's throw in somebody the audience has forgotten about? Grrr.... Link to comment
sharky February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Ok, so a random theory I saw on tumblr that could tie some things together. I never read Alice Through the Looking Glass so someone who has may have to correct me on this. Anyway, the White Queen -- Anastasia in OUAT world -- and the White King -- Will Scarlet -- have a daughter in the book that is named Lily and goes missing. Could this be the same Lily? I'm not sure how they would explain the fact that Will's daughter Lily is the same age as him, but Emma is the same age as her parents so a curse-related age issue is definitely not out of the question. And this could finally justify Will having more of a presence in the second half of this season. Of course, how Lily gets to Storybrooke and why is a whole different issue. And just remember that they are shooting outside today so hopefully we can get some spoilers from that as well. 2 Link to comment
YaddaYadda February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Emma and Lily knew each other for half a day. They met at the grocery store, they paid with a stolen card, they were chased by her father and escaped, they had sandwiches before they "broke" into the lake house that I'm sure belonged to Lily's family. They played video games, Emma kept the camcorder from Lily's house. Her father found them, he called social services on Emma. Lily shrieked when they were separated, then Emma landed with Ingrid. I guess 12 hours is equals a lifetime when you're an angsty teenager. 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Kinda late to the party, but I didn't absolutely hate the Emma/Lily flashbacks. They were tolerable. It was pretty much everything else about 4x05 that wasn't good. Except for Sydney backstabbing Regina. So many new characters. :( Let's see, about 45 minutes per episode (although it's more like 42 minutes), 11 episodes (unless they get another hour tacked on miraculously). That's about 495 minutes (most likely a little less than that). 6 in the main, main cast, +Belle, +Robin, +Marian, +Will, +Henry, +3 evil villainesses, +Lily, + I assume Granny and Grumpy at some point, +a bunch of other people... Everyone except for Regina is going to get like, 5 minutes of screen time. Granted, they could still share screen time with her, but... :'( 1 Link to comment
Curio February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Anyway, the White Queen -- Anastasia in OUAT world -- and the White King -- Will Scarlet -- have a daughter in the book that is named Lily and goes missing. Could this be the same Lily? I would actually love it if this were true. So of course, it won't be. It would definitely justify bringing Socha in as a regular though, and make his random appearances in 4A seem less random. (There's the slight issue that Lily doesn't really look like their offspring, but oh well.) And there'd be a chance that Lily isn't just another villain thrown into the recipe but more of a mysterious grey character. And the more I type, the more I realize that I don't really care about this storyline at all. So, yeah. 4 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Unless if there was some weird time travel or time discrepancy, I can't see Will and Ana having a teeny bopper/full grown daughter by the time he lands back in Storybrooke. The Wonderland adventure took place in season 2/possibly 3 of Once didn't it? And only like, 1 to 2-ish years passed since then. Link to comment
KingOfHearts February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Unless if there was some weird time travel or time discrepancy, I can't see Will and Ana having a teeny bopper/full grown daughter by the time he lands back in Storybrooke. The Wonderland adventure took place in season 2/possibly 3 of Once didn't it? And only like, 1 to 2-ish years passed since then. Unless A) they had a love child before the curse or B) time just works differently in Wonderland. (Which the show had implied) 1 Link to comment
HoodlumSheep February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Unless A) they had a love child before the curse or B) time just works differently in Wonderland. (Which the show had implied) I think time work's differently in Wonderland too, but not zooming-through-10+ years different, compared to 1-2 years Link to comment
Curio February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 If Lily was caught in the hat as a baby in Wonderland and it tossed her out into the real world, the hat's magic would probably be powerful enough to spit her out into any time or dimension. Link to comment
RadioGirl27 February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Ok, so a random theory I saw on tumblr that could tie some things together. I never read Alice Through the Looking Glass so someone who has may have to correct me on this. Anyway, the White Queen -- Anastasia in OUAT world -- and the White King -- Will Scarlet -- have a daughter in the book that is named Lily and goes missing. Could this be the same Lily? I'm not sure how they would explain the fact that Will's daughter Lily is the same age as him, but Emma is the same age as her parents so a curse-related age issue is definitely not out of the question. And this could finally justify Will having more of a presence in the second half of this season. Of course, how Lily gets to Storybrooke and why is a whole different issue. This is probaby the best I've seen (well, the less bad), and the age is not a problem (she was cursed, the hat sends people back in time, or any other contrived idea the pull out of their asses). Ethnicity, on the other hand, could be a problem. I would like for the writers to explain me why young Lily was a Latina and adult Lily is Caucasian. 1 Link to comment
Serena February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 I don't think they really care about matching the actor's ethnicity to the character's. Mulan is Chinese but Jamie Chung is Korean. The man who plays Gepetto is of Italian descent (I'm pretty sure he knows Italian) but Eion Bailey/Pinocchio isn't. People say that the EQ is "Latina" but I honestly don't get why, since that's a culture that has not been presented as existing in the EF. Now, if young!Lily had been dark skinned or brown skinned and they had chosen an adult actress with ligher skin, that would have been a problem, but as things stand, how many people even noticed she was Latina? 4 Link to comment
YaddaYadda February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Save for MJR being miscast as Baelfire and I believe that was A&E's doing more than the actual casting department, the show has done a really good job casting the adults and their younger counterparts. So in this case, I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. The actress who will play adult!Lily actually looks the part with the much darker hair. I don't see a problem. Actually, I really don't care so long as they can act. Regarding the whole Lily/Will theory upthread, I hope that doesn't happen. 1 Link to comment
FurryFury February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 The man who plays Gepetto is of Italian descent (I'm pretty sure he knows Italian) but Eion Bailey/Pinocchio isn't Ehm, Pinocchio isn't Gepetto's biological child, so why would he be of the same race? As for Chinese and Korean, imo, it's not quite the same difference as Latina and white. Nobody notices if a German actor plays a French character, for instance. People say that the EQ is "Latina" but I honestly don't get why, Because they are either looking for representation or just (a much more common case, from what I've seen) want to add "mistreated woman of color" as another reason why Regina should be praised and worshipped (who cares that Regina's mistreatment was her mother's doing and her quite Latino-looking grandfather was actually the king). Will/Lily theory would, at least, explain why they've hired the actor... But I still wouldn't give a damn about her and this storyline. 1 Link to comment
Serena February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) Ehm, Pinocchio isn't Gepetto's biological child, so why would he be of the same race? As for Chinese and Korean, imo, it's not quite the same difference as Latina and white. Nobody notices if a German actor plays a French character, for instance. Because the character/story is Italian and they went to the trouble of finding an Italian actor for one character from that story, but didn't for the others. I'm not saying they 100% should have, I was just pointing out there's a precedence of not matching a character and an actor in terms of culture/heritage. Again, if Lily had been played by a dark skinned Latina actress, they definitely should have found a dark skinned actress to play her adult version, but since young!Lily was a white Latina, finding a white actress to play her adult version is not a big deal. Edited February 19, 2015 by Serena 1 Link to comment
FurryFury February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Because the character/story is Italian and they went to the trouble of finding an Italian actor for one character from that story, but didn't for the others. I'm not saying they 100% should have, I was just pointing out there's a precedence of not matching a character and an actor in terms of culture/heritage. I don't really agree with this logic. Midas is a Greek mythos, but neither the actor not the actress playing his daughter looked Greek to me. I don't think it really matters, especially in the Enchanted Forest. Lily is a real world character (so far), so I guess I have different expectations for her. Anyway, it's all moot - I'll be amazed if her adult version would be any more interesting and likable that the teen. I'm really predisposed to hate her. Link to comment
scenicbyway February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 I think they filmed outside or on locations a lot more last spring which they don't seem to be doing this year. It's not just the lack of spoilers from tv guide and tv line, we don't even see fans meeting the cast and giving spoilers because most of the filming is being done in studio. It just seems odd that we know nothing beyond "Queens of Darkness" and now Lily's back. Some one needs to throw is us a bone it's less than a week and a half until the premiere! 1 Link to comment
Selina K February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) Pics from today's shoot. Is she looking down at her wrist in the rehearsal picture? Tattoo, maybe? "SwanQueen fans can look forward to a road trip." cue Darth Vader scream, "NOOOOOO!!!!" Edited February 19, 2015 by Selina K 1 Link to comment
Souris February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Kill. Me. Now. It's going to be 4x05 all over again. Nothing but SQ pandering. SQ goes on a trip together! True Love! I'm utterly disgusted. 5 Link to comment
kili February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 " SwanQueen fans can look forward to a road trip." I'm really, really, really trying to stay positive about the rest of the season, but the spoilers keep disappointing me. We had a walking trip earlier this season with those two and it was nothing but gross (Regina harping all over Emma and whining about Emma saving somebody's life and never having her back (hello? she went through a portal saving your life and then still saved your life again after you conspired to kill her twice)). I don't need another road trip and why must those two go alone. At least throw Charming and Hook into the back seats so that we can have some sanity (Charming seems to be the only realist when it comes to Regina and the only one not afraid to call her on her nonsense). 2 Link to comment
Serena February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 How can Regina go outside Storybrooke??? Wasn't the whole point of the long, drawn out OQ goodbye that they wouldn't see each other again, because anyone other than Emma (and, in theory, Hook?) going outside Storybrooke wouldn't make it back?? If Regina could go outside and be able to come back out, why couldn't Robin and co. find a nice cabin near the border of Storybrooke and he and Regina could see each other whenever they want?? Why would *both* of Henry's mothers go on this trip, which is probably gonna involve danger?? Shouldn't at least one of them stay with him, so he doesn't lose them both at once if something happens?? WTF. 2 Link to comment
Souris February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) I'm sure they'll come up with some magical reason so Regina can leave. Maybe the Evil Trio break the spell to come in. Or just because she's Regina and special that way. Rules don't apply to her. Edited February 19, 2015 by Souris 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 So was this person also provided with spoilers? He goes and takes pictures, that's what s/he does. Has this website ever been a source for actual spoilers? I'm asking because I don't think they ever have, but I could be wrong. Link to comment
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