Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[Cleanqueen]

I want to know how the flash got that extra 0.2 in the demos this week? That was a big leap for them. 

[Sakura12]

I was wondering that too, what about Tuesday's episode made everyone want to watch The Flash again? The Promo didn't make it look that interesting. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Sakura12

[sking24450]

23 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I want to know how the flash got that extra 0.2 in the demos this week? That was a big leap for them. 

I saw a map a little bit ago that indicated that the Flash was the most watched program in the mid-west. Considering who was in the world series and playoffs I think the Flash was negatively impacted by baseball more than other shows. The L+7 didn't seem to indicate a huge drop of overall viewers watching during the week just a drop in live viewers.  So now that baseball is done maybe the live viewers came back.

[Cleanqueen]

28 minutes ago, sking24450 said:

I saw a map a little bit ago that indicated that the Flash was the most watched program in the mid-west. Considering who was in the world series and playoffs I think the Flash was negatively impacted by baseball more than other shows. The L+7 didn't seem to indicate a huge drop of overall viewers watching during the week just a drop in live viewers.  So now that baseball is done maybe the live viewers came back.

That's interesting indeed. 

[Velocity23]

[MaisyDaisy]

The female to male viewer ratio is now uneven, thats interesting. Perhaps telling on exactly what part of the fandom has stoped watching?

[tv echo]

The Executioner's Song: Why the Networks Stopped Cancelling New Shows
By Anthony Crupi. Published on November 21, 2016.
http://adage.com/article/media/e/306839/

Quote

But there's a sort of multivalent pragmatism at work as well. When nearly half (45%) of all broadcast ratings fall within an unspectacular range of a 1.0 and a 1.5 rating among adults 18-to-49, mere deliveries won't necessarily decide what stays and what goes. Among the host of other factors that determine a show's longevity are studio provenance, which informs everything from back-end sales via syndication to streaming rights deals, and the showrunner's status within the network hierarchy. Shonda Rhimes' shows enjoy most-favored-nation status at ABC, as do Dick Wolf's NBC procedurals, Chuck Lorre's CBS comedies and Greg Berlanti's stable of DC Comics adaptations at the CW. Ryan Murphy's cachet at Fox can be interpreted as a holdover from the days when "Glee" was a pop-culture phenomenon and a reflection of the outsized ratings his "American Horror Story" and "American Crime Story" scare up on FX.

[manbearpig]

I hope that little Ryan Murphy mention means Scream Queens can somehow snag a third season despite its awful ratings. (Not that I expect that to happen).

[LeighAn]

Tv By The Numbers cancellation predictor is saying that based on arrows ratings they dont predict Arrow will get cancelled but the CW may start looking at wrapping the show up

Also that ratings are down 33% on last year

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-the-cw-week-9-arrow-is-hanging-on-but-its-showing-some-age/

Edited November 22, 2016 by LeighAn

[Morrigan2575]

Hahah, yeah nope. 

[Chaser]

I'm curious about how the ratings are going to look at the end of the year. I don't see the crossover bump staying and the ratings normally fall in Spring.

[Starfish35]

I would trust TV Grim Reaper more.  He's the old Cancellation Bear, before the site changed hands.

[LeighAn]

The show being down 33% while the rest of the network is down 14% surprised me.

[Chaser]

I don't think there is a chance of Arrow getting canceled but those ratings took a hit. IIRC, S4 ended even with S3 (in demo or something). Well that's not happening again.

There is no way the show isn't hearing from the CW.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Chaser

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I would trust TV Grim Reaper more.  He's the old Cancellation Bear, before the site changed hands.

Yep, I haven't gone to the Cancellation Bear since the site changed hands.  

[dtissagirl]

They've got a millionaire contract with Netflix that dumps the seasons on the platform 8 days after they finish broadcast. They're gonna milk that 7-year contract they gave Amell GOOD. And then they're gonna try and re-up it, and he's gonna ask for 250k per episode, and they might be willing because Netflix.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I don't think there is a chance of Arrow getting canceled but those ratings took a hit. IIRC, S4 ended even with S3 (in demo or something). Well that's not happening again.

There is no way the show isn't hearing from the CW.

 S2 ended even with S1 in demo and the start/end demo was the same, which was 0.9.  S3 also started and ended the season with the same demo, 1.0.  S4 season finale was lower in demo than previous seasons.  Arrow just never recovered from the Spring ratings.

101 - 1.3/4.14 and 123 - 0.9/2.77

201 - 0.9/2.74 and 223 - 0.9/2.36

301 - 1.0/2.83 and 323 - 1.0/2.80

401 - 1.1/2.67 and 423 - 0.8/2.19

501 - 0.7/1.86

Edited November 22, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

Ok, maybe that's want they were comparing. I just remember a graph of all the shows on TV and Arrow and I believe L&O: SUV were the only ones with 0 change.

[lemotomato]

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Ok, maybe that's want they were comparing. I just remember a graph of all the shows on TV and Arrow and I believe L&O: SUV were the only ones with 0 change.

I think that article compared season averages up to a certain point. Before the big drop in 416, most likely. Season 4 was keeping pace with season 3's ratings before then.

Season averages, in case you were curious:

Edited November 22, 2016 by lemotomato

[LeighAn]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I think that article compared season averages up to a certain point. Before the big drop in 416, most likely. Arrow season 4 was doing well before then.

Season averages, in case you were curious:

Yeah i remember that article because Stephen and Marc publicised it. It was earlier in the season.

[MaisyDaisy]

I think that it will be a ratings decrease by degrees. Lots of people hold on to mid season, before deciding if to bail on a show they no longer enjoy. I can see the 0.7 being mixed with 0.6's in the back half of the season, and think we might even get a 0.5 this season. The train wreck that is their PR, the disconnect that a lot of fans are feeling with the characters, but most important is the lack of trust fans now have in the show. When I am told of the focus being on OTA, or a Felicity centric plot line, I quite frankly dont buy it anymore.

If they keep going with what they are doing now (plot over character, focus on the new characters and constipated-stuck-in-a-relearning-loop-Oliver) and

Spoiler

Tina is the new BC and a GA/BC romance is teased at

and we see Felicity sidelined back to comic relief like we have, I think there will be another great exit.

They will still get renewed- they are going to squeeze everything they can from it, but quality will go down as their budget does, and SA will no longer be a social media darling to fans, this season will tarnish his popularity.

Edited November 25, 2016 by MaisyDaisy

[EmilyBettFan]

His last post on FB was definitely a "feel bad for me because people are criticizing my show." I'm getting really annoyed by this act and I travelled to Calgary to meet him at the con. So I would classify myself at least like a semi big fan (LOL). But if it continues on like this my like will surely decrease.

[Velocity23]

Spoiler

I didnt know there was a revelation about Tina being BC and GA/BC starting a romance.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Velocity23

[statsgirl]

The problem I think with looking at ratings is that they're about the young demographic, and this season is specifically geared to the young male demographic.  I think overall viewers would be better at telling how the season is being accepted, and that's down too.

Another measure is SA's Fuck Cancer campaign.  When it ended last season, about 25,000 shirts had been sold. Right now, with 16 hours to go  7,012 have been sold.  That's gotta sting.

[Chaser]

I noticed last night that Olicity Queen's views seem way down on the recent episodes compared to previous years.

It looks like Arrow's fandom just isn't interested this year.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

The problem I think with looking at ratings is that they're about the young demographic, and this season is specifically geared to the young male demographic.  I think overall viewers would be better at telling how the season is being accepted, and that's down too.

Another measure is SA's Fuck Cancer campaign.  When it ended last season, about 25,000 shirts had been sold. Right now, with 16 hours to go  7,012 have been sold.  That's gotta sting.

I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of linking dissatisfaction about how a TV show is going to an actor's efforts to raise money for charity. (IMO, I think his F-Cancer campaign isn't as successful this year because the design is nearly identical to last year's.)

Edited November 25, 2016 by lemotomato

[way2interested]

35 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

It makes me really uncomfortable when dissatisfaction about how a TV show is going is linked to an actor's efforts to raise money for charity. (IMO, I think his F-Cancer campaign isn't as successful this year because the design is nearly identical to last year's.)

Yeah, I just think the design is really generic/not as interesting this year (and this is coming from a person who doesn't like shirts with people's images on them).

[bethy]

54 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of linking dissatisfaction about how a TV show is going to an actor's efforts to raise money for charity.

I get this, but I think the reason a fair number of people contribute to these specialized campaigns is the draw/appeal of the celebrity. So, I do think once fans are disaffected by the person, the number of people supporting these particular campaigns will drift away. The charities bank on the popularity of the celebrity and when that popularity falters, so does the giving, I would imagine.  

[Chaser]

While it isn't a pleasant thought, I do think the low numbers could say something about fandoms enthusiasm. Maybe I'm a cynic, but I think celebrity charity campaigns are mostly about supporting the celebrity.

[insomniadreams88]

It could also be that people aren't paying as close attention as they had in the past because of dissatisfaction about the show and therefore don't know about the charity campaign?

[emarasmoak]

Well, I used to visit SA's FB frequently (fan art, memes, videos). i don't do it since the beginning of the season because I don't feel excitement about his show and because I don't find that his FB is welcoming/ respectful to women, Olicity fans and/ or critics of the show. This is why I dn't know that this charity campaign started again. There could be many others like me

[tarotx]

I think there is no point in trying to pen this on Olicity fans bring angry and pouting at Stephen so won't support him.  This is 2016 and Stephen has done a lot of campaigns and his fans have spent a lot of money between Drax Shadow, Code 8 and this being the 3rd year of Fuck Cancer.

[Chaser]

I don't think its just Olicity fans. I think fandom as a whole is tired.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Chaser

[doesntworkonwood]

Ehhh, I used to follow Stephen and generally knew about all of his campaigns. I stopped following and have only just heard about this one when you guys posted it. I don't think it's about spitefully refusing to not give money to charity, I think it's more about apathy (the drop of rating shows that people don't care enough about the show to watch it). People don't care about the show, people don't care about SA and therefore aren't playing close enough attention to what he's doing. And that's reflecting in his t-shirt sales. 

If anything, if the show was going well and the rating were still steady like last years, his t-shirt sales should have increased because he's widened his media presence with TMNT2. 

[Cleanqueen]

Not necessarily, I think traffic to his face book page is down compared to other years. You can see it on views on his videos and likes on his posts. And this campaign hasn't been heavily promoted. I believe he only tweeted about it once. With previous campaigns he would have cast members and other friends promote it as well, this one is just dead silent. I also think some people aren't fond of the design and his face not being on it so instead they'd rather donate.

[statsgirl]

 We've been buying a T shirt each year (no matter how ugly the pattern), sometimes two different ones, to support the cause so I got the notification sent to my email address.  There are a lot of cancer groups asking for my money so if I don't donate here, I'll donate elsewhere.

We still bought one but with much less enthusiasm than ever before because of a lack of enthusiasm for the show in general.    If SA isn't tweeting about it or promoting it, maybe he's discouraged too.

[tv echo]

FYI...

Arrow: Season One Ratings
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-one-ratings-25001/

Arrow: Season Two Ratings
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-two-ratings-30300/

Arrow: Season Three Ratings
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-three-ratings-34284/

Arrow: Season Four Ratings
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/

Arrow: Season Five Ratings 
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-tv-show-cw-season-five-ratings/

Edited November 28, 2016 by tv echo
Added S1-S3 ratings links.

[Willowtree]

I've been lurking here for quite a while, but I'd thought I'd just pop in to say that there was a visitor post on SA's Facebook page that said that the FC campaign has sold 10.000 units. There are still a lot of people who are asking Stephen to extend the deadline, because they didn't get the chance to buy the FC merchandise. So, it doesn't seem like Stephen's charities have been that affected by the drop in viewers. Besides, the ratings' decline started already in season four, where the last four episodes didn't manage to get over the 2.200.000/0.8 mark. Hopefully the crossovers will boost the "Arrow" ratings a bit, as they usually do.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Willowtree

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

FYI...

Arrow: Season Four Ratings
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/

Arrow: Season Five Ratings 
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-tv-show-cw-season-five-ratings/

Since you posted the links, I did some quick stats comparing seasons 4 and 5. Pretty ugly, especially when you look at the comparisons between previous seasons:

Edited November 28, 2016 by lemotomato

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, Willowtree said:

I've been lurking here for quite a while, but I'd thought I'd just pop in to say that there was a visitor post on SA's Facebook page that said that the FC campaign has sold 10.000 units. There are still a lot of people who are asking Stephen to extend the deadline, because they didn't get the chance to buy the FC merchandise. So, it doesn't seem like Stephen's charities have been that affected by the drop in viewers. Besides, the ratings' decline started already in season four, where the last four episodes didn't manage to get over the 2.200.000/0.8 mark. Hopefully the crossovers will boost the "Arrow" ratings a bit, as they usually do.

Howdy! Looking at it more, it just seems to me that the campaign just seemed underpromoted this year and that's the real cause of the decline, like Cleanqueen said, so it's more like there's a drop in attention for the campaign (not to mention at least my theory that the design this year is just not as appealing) and not necessarily from the drop in viewers at all (although the drop in viewers might have contributed to the lack of promotion for the campaign as well, but it's still mostly on SA for this one I think). The idea of the drop in viewers comes into play because even though the last few episodes of s4 were lower than 4a, 5a didn't seem to get any of that drop back (actually, it looks like it dropped even more from 423 to 501), and viewers tend to decrease going into the second half of the season, so this might signal more decreases going into the 515-520 range.  Crossovers will definitely boost up Arrow for 509 and possibly a few episodes beyond if 509 keeps up the momentum and people don't mind a possible 2 month hiatus, which is probably what the network is figuring, but even the crossovers don't save Arrow from its x15-x20 range where its ratings have often decreased, this time possibly to an actual .6 or a .5.

[Willowtree]

I actually didn't know how many units were sold last year, but someone posted that it was 12.000 units. So, if 10.000 units are already sold this year, and if there will be additional sales, it's not really that big a decrease, is it? Also, it seems to me that the diehard SA fans keep a pretty good track of his activities, so they would know about the campaign even if it was underpromoted. My point was that there might not be a direct link between Nielsen ratings and the interest in Stephen's charity activities (which seems to be your point as well!). In fact, many people who post on Stephen's FB (and who are likely to contribute to his campaigns) seem to support him regardless of how they feel about the show.

As for the ratings, all the Berlanti shows have lost viewers this season (in fact, it seems to be a general trend when it comes to all network shows). My prediction for "Arrow" is that the ratings will stabilize around 1.9-2.0 million, with a 0.7 demo for this season, with a possible drop in the Spring. Season three was lackluster, and a major part of season four was pretty dismal, so maybe casual viewers just checked out and started watching something else instead?

Edited November 28, 2016 by Willowtree

[looptab]

I had to laugh at a comment on SA's page under the pic where he asked what he was looking at  ' He is looking at the  ratings going up after dropping Olicity and mama and papa Smoak'. Yeah, definitely  up, hahah.

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, Willowtree said:

I actually didn't know how many units were sold last year, but someone posted that it was 12.000 units. So, if 10.000 units are already sold this year, and if there will be additional sales, it's not really that big a decrease, is it? Also, it seems to me that the diehard SA fans keep a pretty good track of his activities, so they would know about the campaign even if it was underpromoted. My point was that there might not be a direct link between Nielsen ratings and the interest in Stephen's charity activities (which seems to be your point as well!). In fact, many people who post on Stephen's FB (and who are likely to contribute to his campaigns) seem to support him regardless of how they feel about the show.

25k last year, more like 8k this year.

And people support charities without getting celebs' t-shirts all the time. Personally I think it's quite clear that there's a link bw hardcore, t-shirt buying fans' unhappiness with the show and with his...off and online phrasing...and lower sales. That doesn't mean they're bad people, either. I donate literally thousands of dollars every year, and I wouldn't take one of his t-shirts for free at this point.

ETA exact numbers from the campaign website: Year 1: 66,419; Year 2: 21,288; this year: 7,852.

So I don't know who the someone who posted 12k last year and 10k this year was, but that someone's numbers are not at all accurate. And the campaign is over, so presumably there will be no additional sales.

Edited November 28, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[EmilyBettFan]

40 minutes ago, looptab said:

I had to laugh at a comment on SA's page under the pic where he asked what he was looking at  ' He is looking at the  ratings going up after dropping Olicity and mama and papa Smoak'. Yeah, definitely  up, hahah.

A simple search will tell them that's not the case. These are people who believe that the producers and Bamford screaming "best season ever" equates to "best ratings ever." 

[Willowtree]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

25k last year, more like 8k this year.

And people support charities without getting celebs' t-shirts all the time. Personally I think it's quite clear that there's a link bw hardcore, t-shirt buying fans' unhappiness with the show and with his...off and online phrasing...and lower sales. That doesn't mean they're bad people, either. I donate literally thousands of dollars every year, and I wouldn't take one of his t-shirts for free at this point.

ETA exact numbers from the campaign website: Year 1: 66,419; Year 2: 21,288; this year: 7,852.

So I don't know who the someone who posted 12k last year and 10k this year was, but that someone's numbers are not at all accurate. And the campaign is over, so presumably there will be no additional sales.

Wow! Thanks for the clarification! Seems like the numbers decrease with each passing year....

[SonofaBiscuit]

Preliminary Arrow Ratings:

[Morrigan2575]

Excellent jump for Arrow. 

[way2interested]

Wow, that's almost doubled 507's ratings. I know matching the other crossovers it fits right in line, but from such a jump between 507 and this episode is still a considerable success here.

[Belinea]

Is it still the lowest of the three nights so far? Not being negative, just curious...

[Starfish35]

No, Supergirl was lower, at 1.1.