Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Proteus]

Yeah, I'm curious about 2x12- I know that Candice, Jesse, Keynan and Grant were filming a lot together for that one, so maybe this is the first major Wally focused ep.

That sounds disappointing.

[Trini]

I doubt they could wait that long for West Family Drama. I'm sure there will be a few scenes with Wally in 2.10.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Trini

[driedfruit]

Since Wally is a regular, he'll have to appear in every episode as all the regulars on the show do. 2.12 is going to be an important episode for Joe and Iris (and Wally by extension) so I'm assuming that's when the mother dies.

[Trini]

"Potential Energy" description:

TUESDAY, JANUARY 19

"Potential Energy"

JOE AND IRIS GET TO KNOW WALLY - Now that they've grown closer, Barry considers telling Patty that he is The Flash. Meanwhile, Joe and Iris try to get to know Wally, and the team hunts down a meta-human who can slow time itself.

 

"Meta-human who can slow time itself"? Is this a new villain, or are they adding that power to someone we've seen already? (Killer Frost?) Is there a specific Flash character from the comics that can slow time?

[marketdoctor]

 

"Meta-human who can slow time itself"? Is this a new villain, or are they adding that power to someone we've seen already?

 

That's a great question.  Many of the speedsters in the DC Universe have had time-slowing, in part because the line between slowing down time and going really fast is questionable.  The main characters in the DC Universe who can slow time but aren't speedsters are Time Trapper, Kismet, and (in Batman:  The Animated Series) The Clock King.  If I were guessing, I'd go with that last one, since he's shown up on Arrow as a non-powered person.  That, or it's a side effect of Velocity 6 and/or Zoom.

 

This power might be what leads to the time machine from Legends of Tomorrow.  If you can "speed up time", you have time travel in one direction; if you slow it down to the point where it goes backwards, you have time travel the other way.  

 

Although if it turns out to be someone with a gold watch, I'll be impressed at the crossover.  (The gold watch is from a John D. MacDonald book/two made-for-TV movies also referenced in other media.) 

[Primal Slayer]

Can't keep an Amell down

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/01/the-flash-season-2-bts-photo-of-robbie.html

[Maverick]

So I guess that's Earth-2 Firestorm?  And he's evil (in alternate realities, beards and black leather always = evil).

[Trini]

Maybe it's a flashback. I hope it's a flashback to when Firestorm was training with a mystery woman in Pittsburgh. I'm really curious about what that line meant.

 

But maybe Robbie is back for Legends, and not Flash?

[Trini]

Nevermind; it is evil Earth-2 Ronnie: Deathstorm.

It's only halfway through the season, and I'm already getting tired evil Earth-2 versions of characters. Now I'm getting worried about the glimpse of Earth-2 WestAllen....

[Trini]

It's surprising, though; I thought we'd never see Robbie again since he turned down the spin-off.

[SevenStars]

Nevermind; it is evil Earth-2 Ronnie: Deathstorm.

It's only halfway through the season, and I'm already getting tired evil Earth-2 versions of characters. Now I'm getting worried about the glimpse of Earth-2 WestAllen....

Maybe earth2 Iris is an evil leader that Earth1 Barry have to go and fight against. Because the way Iris is dress, it looks like she could be leader of a country or head of a company.

It's surprising, though; I thought we'd never see Robbie again since he turned down the spin-off.

Maybe he doesn't want to be tie down to a show that he is not going to be the lead of but doesn't mind a few a guest spots.

[jaytee1812]

Maybe he doesn't want to be tie down to a show that he is not going to be the lead of but doesn't mind a few a guest spots.

Lol! If there's any justice hell never get a lead role.

I'm convinced the Amell family must have blackmail material on someone involved in these shows. Not only is there this piece of wood and his cousin on Arrow, his fiancé just got a part on Supergirl. And there's not one of them can act to save their lives.

[bettername2come]

Between Deathstorm, Deathstroke and Deadshot, I'm convinced these showrunners are just trying to confuse me.

I'm happier than I should be that evil Caitlin and Ronnie are still together.

Edited January 5, 2016 by bettername2come

[Trini]

Killer Frost + Deathstorm = KillerStorm? DeathFrost?

[Maverick]

 See, black leather = evil.   They don't call 'em tropes for nuthin!   So is Deathstorm a merger of Ronnie and Stein, a merger of Ronnie and someone else or just Ronnie?

[Proteus]

It's surprising, though; I thought we'd never see Robbie again since he turned down the spin-off.

I don't think he was ever asked to be on Legends. I think they always intended to have a new AA version of Firestorm.

[Trini]

I think this was mentioned before, but more confirmation: Diggle to cross over for an episode. They said King Shark was expensive to do, I wonder if we'll even see more than 2 minutes of him. I have to think that there will be more stuff going on with Diggle (and Lyla?) than tracking KS. Him and Flash don't have much of a relationship.

[phoenics]

I think this was mentioned before, but more confirmation: Diggle to cross over for an episode. They said King Shark was expensive to do, I wonder if we'll even see more than 2 minutes of him. I have to think that there will be more stuff going on with Diggle (and Lyla?) than tracking KS. Him and Flash don't have much of a relationship.

 

Oh please Flash Powers That Be, PLEASE let Iris and Diggle have some scenes... CP's and DR's interaction in that guitar battle was so ... HAWT ... please oh please let them have some scenes together.  Thank you.

[Trini]

Episode 2.11 description:

"The Reverse-Flash Returns"

HE'S BACK... - When Cisco gets a vibe of Eobard Thawne (guest star Matthew Letscher), Barry and the team don't believe it. But, after an attack at Mercury Labs, Christina McGee (guest star Amanda Pays) confirms that the Reverse Flash is back. Meanwhile, Iris and Francine (guest star Vanessa A. Williams) share a nice moment that brings Iris closer to her brother, Wally.

Michael Allowitz directed the episode written by Aaron Helbing & Todd Helbing

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/listings/20160108cw03/

[bettername2come]

Oh please Flash Powers That Be, PLEASE let Iris and Diggle have some scenes... CP's and DR's interaction in that guitar battle was so ... HAWT ... please oh please let them have some scenes together.  Thank you.

 

I always want more Iris crossover action, especially because those two have never met. But I really want to see Diggle and Joe since I was deprived of my Quentin/Joe interaction in the last crossover. And I need to see Lyla with the Flash ladies. C'mon, Caitlin saved her life last time! They should talk. And Iris is super-curious about the shady government organization and wants to write about it but can't.

 

I'm probably not going to get what I want.

[Trini]

So that time-slowing villain in 2.10 is the Turtle played by Aaron Douglas. And he's apparently Cisco's white whale?

[zannej]

Too bad they couldn't make some sort of deal with The Turtle to slow down Zoom. Of course, he could just be a murderous cretin rather than one of the rogues that likes to rob things/people.

[Trini]

http://tvline.com/2016/01/13/the-flash-iris-barry-season-2-spoilers/

 

Well, TVLine certainly knows which shippers to bait. At this point, I'm skeptical about anything they say about Iris. Also TVLine is the one speculating that this new character is a love interest, the producers haven't said that.

 

I am interested in this "big thing" Barry has to tell her; though I'm still waiting for Iris' feelings on their relationship.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, the Iris feelings thing is what needs to happen- they are aware of that, right? It sounds like they're bringing in a new potential triangle before Iris realizes her feelings yet again, in a redo of last year. Maybe this time she'll choose Barry and that's why they're doing it?

 

And I still fail to understand what the entire point of Patty was, since they didn't even use her to make Iris realize her feelings for Barry. That whole thing is going to be the biggest timewasting subplot ever.

 

I am curious what it is that Barry tells her that changes their relationship though. I'm assuming it has something to do with them on E2, since I can't think of anything else it would be.

[Maverick]

And I still fail to understand what the entire point of Patty was, since they didn't even use her to make Iris realize her feelings for Barry. That whole thing is going to be the biggest timewasting subplot ever.

 

 I think it comes in second behind Jay Garrick.

[Velocity23]

 

Do you know who this Reverse-Flash is that’s popping up on The Flash this season? — Claire

Despite theories that he hails from Earth-Two, this actually is the Reverse-Flash we’ve come to know and hate — but with a twist. “Time on our show does not unfold linearly,” EP Andrew Kreisberg says. “Sometimes you’ve seen events from one direction and then you start to see them from the other. This Reverse-Flash is not exactly the Reverse-Flash that we saw disintegrate at the end of the year. It’s a Reverse-Flash from an earlier timeline. It’s not the Earth-Two Reverse-Flash, it’s the Reverse-Flash. That is, hands down, one of our best episodes.”

AK on Reverse Flash

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/15/spoiler-room-mr-robot-greys-anatomy-flash-spoilers

[Ruby25]

Kreisberg says every episode is one of their "best episodes."

[phoenics]

Pretty detailed spoilers from Flash boss... http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/18/flash-earth-2-zoom-spoilers

[Ruby25]

Yay, we were right! Barry and Iris are a couple on Earth 2! I can't wait to see it. I hope we get to see some of how their E2 selves interact with each other too (that it's not just E1 Barry and E2 Iris, I mean).

[phoenics]

Yay, we were right! Barry and Iris are a couple on Earth 2! I can't wait to see it. I hope we get to see some of how their E2 selves interact with each other too (that it's not just E1 Barry and E2 Iris, I mean).

I'm just hoping it means that E2 Barry has gone missing and when Iris sees Barry she rushes up and kisses him full on and then realizes it's not HER Barry. That's why she's "inspecting" him in the promo.

Either that - or she knows who he is and she's dressed him up this way to fool someone? Zoom maybe?

It'd be interesting if the show ever did an Iris/Barry AU storyline like the one they did on Lois & Clark. Meaning on some other Earth (maybe Earth 3?) Barry has lost his Iris (lightning rod) and Iris gets sent to that alternate Earth 3 by a villain (like Tempus on L&C = probably RF instead) to "create" the Flash in order to destroy him and make himself ruler of that Earth? I'm forgetting the storyline, etc.. Eventually they did a follow up where AU Clark/Supes came to the main "Earth" because Tempus trapped Clark in some kind of time box, etc.. so he could take over in his absence.

You know I almost think that Lois & Clark stole that time travel/AU stuff FROM the Flash. It sounds like something RF would do - especially on this show since he's 1) from the future and 2) hates Barry/Flash because of something that happens in said future.

I wonder now with RF coming back if they will ever show us WHY he hates Barry/Flash so much.

I hope RF isn't Zoom - that would be so boring.

[zannej]

Well, given the spoilers it looks like I was right about it being a younger version of Eobard before he hated The Flash. The bit of "this is his origin story" in the extended promo gave that away. Good to see its confirmed. Now, we just have to see what happens to make Eobard hate Barry. And I'm guessing that Harry will do something to piss him off to make him feel justified in killing Dr. Wells (other than just needing his body).

 

Loved the bit of Cisco screaming when he saw Reverse Flash (or at least, that's how it looked in the promos-- maybe Harry just popped out of nowhere and they did clever editing to make it look like it was RF that scared him).

 

Is it wrong that I want to see Wells scream like that at some point? I've seen Tom Cavanagh do stuff like that in other movies. And the evil part of me wants them to bring snakes on set because Tom said he's terrified of snakes. I bet that would elicit a girly scream.

 

The bit about Barry being tied to Zoom makes me think even more that he is Henry Allen.

Edited January 20, 2016 by zannej

[phoenics]

Wait - where does it say that Barry is tied to Zoom?

[Cthulhudrew]

I think it would be interesting if the Earth-2 episode was entirely set on Earth-2, and we never see any of the Earth-1 characters at all. Would make for an interesting swerve and diversion from the main storyline.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, I wondered that too, but it looks like what's happening is the E1 guys (some of them- looks like Barry, Cisco and Wells) are taking a trip over to E2.

 

It would be kinda cool to just drop us into E2 though, and we meet all our regulars as different people, with no need for the E1 counterparts.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Ruby25

[Ruby25]

I wonder if they're saving Mirror Master to be a season long villain at some point. He's a pretty popular Flash villain that people have been asking for since the start and nothing yet- could they want to do more than just one episode with him, I wonder?

[phoenics]

Isn't Mirror Master in the next episode - or did someone get that wrong?

[Jenesis]

Yeah, the Iris feelings thing is what needs to happen- they are aware of that, right? It sounds like they're bringing in a new potential triangle before Iris realizes her feelings yet again, in a redo of last year. Maybe this time she'll choose Barry and that's why they're doing it?

 

And I still fail to understand what the entire point of Patty was, since they didn't even use her to make Iris realize her feelings for Barry. That whole thing is going to be the biggest timewasting subplot ever.

 

I am curious what it is that Barry tells her that changes their relationship though. I'm assuming it has something to do with them on E2, since I can't think of anything else it would be.

 

I'm no TV writer, but even I know that if they would have just waited until the Earth-2 episode to air and showed Barry a world where him and Iris are together, he'd have a better understanding of what (and who) he really wants. That would have been a compelling story to tell and Patty's character would have had a friggen point.

 

Iris of Earth- 2 probably gets killed by Zoom in front of Earth -1 Barry and the ships starts sailing again.

[phoenics]

I'm no TV writer, but even I know that if they would have just waited until the Earth-2 episode to air and showed Barry a world where him and Iris are together, he'd have a better understanding of what (and who) he really wants. That would have been a compelling story to tell and Patty's character would have had a friggen point.

 

Iris of Earth- 2 probably gets killed by Zoom in front of Earth -1 Barry and the ships starts sailing again.

*horrified face* at Iris of Earth 2 getting killed by Zoom... Omgosh that's a horrible image. *runs screaming* Poor Earth 2 Barry if that happens.

And I think the point of Patty was 1) to show that Barry had sex and a real gf before Iris and 2) to illustrate low table stakes with Zoom. Barry's this freaked out now with Patty possibly being killed by Zoom. Imagine if it's Iris later in the season. Talk about upping the ante.

[zannej]

Wait - where does it say that Barry is tied to Zoom?

Oops. The word was "linked"

Zoom starts to become the White Whale for Barry, that thing that’s circling out there that’s haunting him, that Barry knows could come across the breach and destroy him at any moment. It’s a very different angst that he has this year than he had last year. What I don’t think he’s fully aware of is they’re actually linked and that will start to play out more as the season progresses.

[phoenics]

Sorry - I meant - which spoiler article is this from? Doh - never mind.. it's in the article I posted. I skipped right over that part - or it didn't really sink in the first time I read it.

That's really interesting...

I did also read an interview from Grant Gustin where he basically admits that Zoom is not Earth 2 Barry Allen.

I don't think it's posted here - I'll go look for it.

Edited January 21, 2016 by phoenics

[Ruby25]

I was thinking about the difference btw Seasons 1 and 2, and obviously one of them was how great the Wells build-up was, and how no one (except the audience) knew he was our Big Bad for so long, and I think that was an instantly more compelling way to do the Big Bad story.

 

I think by introducing Zoom as just, our season bad guy so early and having everybody know it, has necessitated a lot of filler stuff while Zoom keeps drifting to the background again. And having Barry know it so early has made him all mopey and depressed this season (which is unappealing on him), and I think the show needs him to be more of what he was in the first season (mostly lighthearted, sweet and goofy- I really want that guy back).

 

So whatever the plan is for Season 3, I think they should try to figure out a way to put the season long villain simmering in the background again, at least at first, so that the characters don't know it so early and seem to spend so much time not doing anything about it, lol.

 

One of the shows that Kreisberg loves and sees as a model for this one is Buffy (which I've seen every single episode of, multiple times), and the truth is the best Big Bads on Buffy (Angel, the Mayor and Faith, etc) were always revealed to the audience way before Buffy and co. knew what was going on.

 

I think Wells was great because we knew he was bad while they didn't for so long, so his dual role on the show was so much better integrated.

 

Although, I do still wonder how they're going to keep Wells on the show long-term. They seem to like having him be dubious and sinister no matter where he comes from, so how can he stick around for years if he's always going to be secretly killing people, etc? Will they have reintroduce him as a new personality every season, lol?

[phoenics]

So... Barry still doesn't know that Zoom is just "fattening him up" for the kill, so to speak. He still doesn't know why Zoom sent the villains through the portal. He just thinks Zoom wants to kill him.

I wonder if Harry tells him this in 2.11?

And why would Barry go to Earth 2 to get at Zoom? Zoom broke his back the last time they tangled and took him on a tour of the city like a rag doll.

[CocoaGoddess]

I think it would be interesting if the Earth-2 episode was entirely set on Earth-2, and we never see any of the Earth-1 characters at all. Would make for an interesting swerve and diversion from the main storyline.

 

I agree. They did this often on Fringe, and it was a nice break from the sometimes redundant nature of our "regulars" and the regular case/monsters/villains of the week, but also gave us a better understanding of how the alternate universe operated and the dynamics of the alternate universe characters without the original flavors influencing that.

 

In the end, the audience was as attached to the alternate characters as we were to the originals. The Flash showrunners have gotten off course and everything is incoherent and doesn't make much sense, but it's still early enough in the game to patch it up. 

[bettername2come]

 

How is the time period Flash is from a secret? He has a museum!

[phoenics]

Maybe that far into the future, the knowledge gets lost?

[phoenics]

Just watched the newest promo (there are 2) for episode 2.12. Right when Zoom says to Harry "Bring me the flash's speed.", it shows Barry's emblem on his chest glow a faint blue light and then we see Barry not fast enough to stop Iris from being impaled by a shard of glass.

 

1. I think Harry replaces the emblem on Barry's chest, sucking out his speed so he can give it to Zoom.
2. Thus Barry is unable to save Iris from being hurt
3. Harry feels terrible and confesses
4. Joe punches him out (we saw this in another promo)
5. Harry confesses it was because Zoom has Jesse
6. Team Flash decides to go to Earth 2 to meet Zoom head on

[zannej]

 

Just watched the newest promo (there are 2) for episode 2.12. Right when Zoom says to Harry "Bring me the flash's speed.", it shows Barry's emblem on his chest glow a faint blue light and then we see Barry not fast enough to stop Iris from being impaled by a shard of glass.

 

1. I think Harry replaces the emblem on Barry's chest, sucking out his speed so he can give it to Zoom.
2. Thus Barry is unable to save Iris from being hurt
3. Harry feels terrible and confesses
4. Joe punches him out (we saw this in another promo)
5. Harry confesses it was because Zoom has Jesse
6. Team Flash decides to go to Earth 2 to meet Zoom head on

 

Do you have a link to the promo that shows Joe punching Harry out? Or even gifs would be nice.

Did anyone else think that Harry was trying to get Cisco to vibe him in the last episode? Like he wanted Cisco to see what Zoom was up to so he could help him? Or maybe so he could see the future and tell him if things went wrong. Given that Cisco told Captain Cold Barry's identity to save his own brother, I think he would understand Harry's plight and want to find a way to pull a fast one on Zoom so-to-speak.

 

I personally think that the bit of Iris dying is either Earth 2 Iris or a nightmare Barry was having. Maybe the trip to Earth 2 where they are off to see the wizard-- er, I mean, off to kill Zoom will happen because Zoom will realize that Barry has gained more speed and Barry will feel more confident because he got faster than Eobard and feel like he is strong enough to go stop Zoom.

 

My speculation is that ultimately Zoom will either die or get hit with something that causes his speedforce to disperse and it will fill Wally, Jay, Barry, Jesse, and possibly Harry. Or maybe it will bypass Barry and hit the others and give them powers.

[phoenics]

Earth 2 is not until ep 13. I think ep 12 with Iris getting hurt is real.

I have to go look for the scene where Joe punches Harry - I found it earlier today but now it's lost in my mentions... I think it's in the media thread though... one sec...

Found it... the punch happens at the 0:44 mark...

Edited January 30, 2016 by phoenics

[zannej]

Thank you! I can't believe I missed Wells getting punched out when I saw that before. I guess because everything flashed by so quickly....

[Trini]

So with the Hunter Zolomon reveal, is he now the frontrunner for who Zoom really is? Barry or Henry are definitely still candidates, though.

 

 

I agree. They did this often on Fringe, and it was a nice break from the sometimes redundant nature of our "regulars" and the regular case/monsters/villains of the week, but also gave us a better understanding of how the alternate universe operated and the dynamics of the alternate universe characters without the original flavors influencing that.

 

In the end, the audience was as attached to the alternate characters as we were to the originals. The Flash showrunners have gotten off course and everything is incoherent and doesn't make much sense, but it's still early enough in the game to patch it up. 

[i'm still upset they killed off Red Universe Lincoln Lee!]