S04.E10: Fall

[thuganomics85]

Man, I really should be upset that Elsa betrayed the group like that, but considering how the entire group fell for one of the oldest tricks in the book, I kind of think she earned the right to give it a try, considering this band of nitwits.  Really, guys?  I get wanting to trust people, but not checking the bag?  As much as I dislike her, no way Regina wouldn't have not checked it.  Of course, I still loved watching Regina of all people get high and mighty with Elsa.  Yeah, like you've never done anything selfish at all, Regina.

 

But, I guess it worked out!  Anna and Kristoff are back and in Storybrooke!  I'm so glad those two are here.  They were cracking me up throughout their entire flashback, and enjoyed every cheesy and sappy moment.  Sure, it's not art, but I enjoy seeing a couple that is angst-free, and just seem to love each other.  Thanks for the Frozen stuff being a big selling point for Disney, I'm sure nothing big will ever change with those two and Elsa/Anna, so I at least can be satisfied by that.  It's just too bad they couldn't find a way to get Sven the Reindeer with them.  Him in Storybrooke would be a sight to see.

 

Meanwhile, Rumple is continuing to go past the point of no return.  Sucking all the fairies into his magical hat, because all he cares about his protecting himself, Belle, and Henry.  Everyone else can just fuck off.  And, again, this show actually is treating him like a bad person, so I'm fine with it.  I hope he falls hard, but I'm enjoying that they are finally letting him back loose.  And, I continue to love the hatred he and Hook clearly have for each other.  I hope that poor pirate can figure a way out of this.

 

Fun seeing Blackbeard again, but I really love the return of Hans.  The actor really is just doing a great job at making him such a punchable "Disney" villain.

 

Did not pay attention to any of the stuff involving Regina and Robin...  Although, I really hope Will is used better in the second half of the season.

 

So, Ingrid's curse has come to past, and we're going to be seeing evil "mirrored" versions of characters now.  Should be fun.  Hell, I'm probably going to enjoy "Mirrored" Snow more then have with Normal Snow so far.

[StaceyNotStacie]

 

Marian is still frozen and Roland is locked away with her.  He'll have some issues....

 

Thanks to everyone who answered.  I didn't know if Marion became unfrozen when the Arandale spell broke.

 

Even though I'm sad about the fall season ending, and as much as I enjoyed Elsa and Emma together, I'm looking forward to them wrapping up this storyline and giving us clues as to the winter/spring season's story.

[Mari]

I just thought of another flaw in Regina's plan to lock herself in her vault.

 

Not only could she magic herself out, but what's stopping her from playing "Eeny, meeny, crush-a-heart.", even if she couldn't figure out how to get out?

 

I want new showrunners who actually understand things like "logic" "victim" "hero"  "villain" and "natural consequences of your own actions"

 

But especially logic.  There shouldn't be this many holes in the story all the time.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Mari

[KingOfHearts]

 

Not only could she magic herself out, but what's stopping her from playing "Eeny, meeny, crush-a-heart.", even if she couldn't figure out how to get out?

There's all that crazy stuff she has in there. Apparently she keeps the curse scroll in there, so there's nothing stopping her from creating a new curse or ripping the current one. 

 

 

 

I want new showrunners who actually understand things like "logic" "victim" "hero"  "villain" and "natural consequences of your own actions"

But especially logic.  There shouldn't be this many holes in the story all the time.

 

This Shattered Sight spell has to have a lot of handwaving, apparently. Elsa, Anna, Emma, Ingrid, Rumple and probably Hook and Baby Neal are all immune, then you got people like Roland "safe" somewhere... it's a curse without any real blood or consequences. We'll get a few funny lines out of it, then someone will break it, then everyone will go eat at Granny's. It's not going to be "deadly" like they say at all.

 

And why the heck was Arendelle bowing down to Hans?! How in the world did they conform to him and his brothers so fast? Where are all the servants and townspeople? Do a few sleepy guards represent the whole kingdom?

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Whodunnit]

Shouldn't Kristoff have been locked up? I get that Anna had previous exposure and was immune, but Kristoff wasn't and should at least been handcuffed or something.

[YaddaYadda]

So Hans is also in control of the Jolly Roger?  Is it too much to ask for I don't know a quick scene where Hook finds out that his ship that's no longer his ship is basically between the hands of someone who is like the king who sent him to Neverland?

[StaceyNotStacie]

Shouldn't Kristoff have been locked up? I get that Anna had previous exposure and was immune, but Kristoff wasn't and should at least been handcuffed or something.

 

I thought they handcuffed him to a desk at the sheriff's office since Snow and Charming were in the jail cells

[Lieutenant]

Dammit CS...that was pain on top of heartbreak.  And Colin and Jmo's acting.  Nope, nope, nope - still not ok over here.  Nothing gets me like tearful Emma.  Poor girl gets the weight of the world piled onto her shoulders, and manages to bear it with such strength.  Seeing the cracks in her armor just tears at my heart.  And I'm not even touching Killian's tortured self-loathing and regret. 

 

I'm so done with Regina.  Whoever though her "helpful" snarking would be appealing?  I just wanted to slap her and tell her to shut the hell up if she wasn't going to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way.  Glad she recognized what an unhinged bizzo she's about to become, however.  I think Robin should totally be locked up with her.  About time he sees how truly "bold and audacious" she can be, as she rips his heart out.  One can dream...sigh.

 

Rumple.  I hate you with the fire of a thousand suns.  I find it terribly interesting that he thinks he's just gonna trot off with Belle and Henry and have a brand new life.  Like either of them are gonna be ok with it?  No one will ask any questions?  Henry will be totally down with abandoning his family.  Yeah....no.

[Shanna Marie]

Blackbeard wasn't only walked off the plank, but he was eaten by sharks.

Ah, but we never saw a body! Just churning water that Hook assumed was from sharks (or other kind of man-eating fish). I'm kind of glad because I find him entertaining and I wouldn't mind seeing the rematch between him and Hook.

 

All Rumple needed was a freaking Wishing Star?!

That he had in his possession for at least a few years before he cast the curse. It looks like he could have wished for Bae to be brought to him, and poof! There you go!

 

It's possible that the parents never knew they had the Wishing Star in their possession and thought it was just a necklace. Then they went looking for it and ran into Blackbeard, who then learned it was a thing and also went looking for it, which would be how rumors got back to Kristoff. Then obviously Blackbeard was lying to Anna, since he was already in league with Hans. He may never have seen it or had any idea where or what it was. It is possible that this is the bit of news that will wash up with the bottle.

 

How long did it take between the spell on Hans and his brothers wearing off and the one on Anna and Kristoff wearing off? The Hans posse arrived back to the palace pretty damn fast.

Well, look how long that Shattered Sight spell took to hit. If it started unfreezing from the edges of the kingdom, working its way in to the point where the freezing started, with Anna and Kristoff, that could explain it. Hans was in the cupboard, but the Hot Brothers ran off, so we don't know where they were when the freezing hit. They might have been on the verge of entering the palace when they were frozen.

 

I didn't hear that line... probably because of said sound mixing issues.

I didn't hear what Regina said to Robin because I've learned to sing "Let it Go" at the top of my lungs during any scene between those two in order to prevent nausea attacks. I didn't really get any sound mixing problems, but was the camera really shaky during the scene in the library when they were arguing over the one vs. many thing or were we having another minor earthquake?

 

Also, Rumple caring about Henry totally contradicts last episode, where he was more than willing to kill his mother. He's probably thinking about taking Henry because he's the last bit of Nealfire he has left.

I don't think that's a contradiction. Emma is nothing to Rumple, while Henry is Bae's son. Henry's actual feelings mean nothing to him. Henry's mostly just a possession.

 

Josh and Ginny were great in the change in facial expressions after they got sharded.

I was very impressed with that. You knew exactly when the spell hit by the way their faces changed.

 

And am I evil that I want to see how baby Neal is affected? I guess an evil newborn would just scream his head off constantly and treat the people he normally would be trusting like total strangers, with even more screaming.

 

Why do Elsa, Anna and Kristoff care so much about the people of Arendelle when apparently they'll just accept any king even though they're known attempted murderers like Hans?

I was wondering about that. Given Hans's history and the fact that his kingdom is apparently an enemy, you'd think that the entire navy wouldn't have just joined up with Hans. I guess he could be lying to Anna. Or I suppose it's possible that it was easy to spin the 30 years of being frozen into being Elsa's fault, with him there to save them all, but still, I can't see Hans getting away with it. Maybe one of the Hot Brothers, but not Hans, who's already tried to take over the kingdom once before. You'd think the reaction would be more "here he goes again" than "Yes, let's follow him!"

[YaddaYadda]

That he had in his possession for at least a few years before he cast the curse. It looks like he could have wished for Bae to be brought to him, and poof! There you go!

 

No, because it works only if you have a pure heart and the only person who believes that Rumple has a pure and true heart is Belle.  The wishing star would have been a moot point for Rumple.

[KingOfHearts]

 

No, because it works only if you have a pure heart and the only person who believes that Rumple has a pure and true heart is Belle.  The wishing star would have been a moot point for Rumple.

He could have forced someone like Anna to do it, perhaps? Or manipulate them to like he did in the Apprentice...

 

"When you use this necklace, the person you wish for will appear instantly! But with this genie lamp, you can have three wishes - and wish not only for people, but for anything! Have we got a deal, dearie?"

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

No, because it works only if you have a pure heart and the only person who believes that Rumple has a pure and true heart is Belle.  The wishing star would have been a moot point for Rumple.

Duh (smack on the forehead). I forgot that detail. Well, maybe he could have manipulated Belle into making the wish. Actually, that wouldn't have taken much manipulation. He could have just flat-out told her that he wanted more than anything to be reunited with his son, but he couldn't make the wish because he didn't have a pure heart. She'd have grabbed the star and made the wish for him, perhaps after arguing a bit about how pure his heart really was and trying to convince him to try anyway.

 

Whattaya bet that at some point Regina is able to use that necklace? And then two episodes later we'll find out about someone she has chained up in her crypt or under some curse, even while she was supposedly pure in heart enough to make a wish.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm betting the same no curse equals no access to our world (except for Baelfire's bean and Pan's shadow etc) rule would apply to anyone trying to wish themselves to our world. I think it only worked because Elsa was wishing from our world. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think it only worked because Elsa was wishing from our world.

I don't know the rules of the Wishing Star. For all we know it could be rule-free, knowing this show. But my guess is what Elsa was able to use it from our world because Storybrooke had magic. That's assuming the Wishing Star follows the standard laws. (That are made to be broken.)

 

Then again, the Sorcerer's Apprentice was able to put a magic door in the middle of the 1980s New York, so whatever.

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FabulousTater]

The Shattered Sight Spell must have hit my house before the show because after seeing this Horrible-Curse-that-will-ultimately-have-no-consequences-and-will-be-over-in-three-seconds, I'm not feeling the desperation the show was trying to sell AT ALL. This show has had 9,234,456 other "Oh NOES! IMPENDING DOOOOM!" moments that never mean a damn thing and are solved in the next episode. So now after crisis number 9,234,457 I just officially don't care. This was just so stupid and just zero drama. I mean, when you've seen 1 curse on this show you've basically seen them all. And as a bonus, we know the outcome too. Because it's ALWAYS THE SAME!

 

And because the crisis will be solved by the end of the next episode (and no lasting consequences, of course, because it's this freaking show) all the tearful goodbyes fell flatter than a pancake to me. Seriously, how many good-byes have these people said to each other before?!?! Dozens. It's all they do, actually: Crisis, Boo-hoo Good-bye, Oops, just kidding. Nothing bad happened. We're back!

 

These so called emotional farewells have lost their impact. It's all become like a piece of chewing gum you should've spit out hours ago because it lost all it's flavor already, but instead have kept right on chewing it until it has lost all cohesion and has dissolved in your mouth into meaningless nothing. This show makes "lather, rinse, repeat" seem like Shakespeare in comparison. The writers even repeated the setup of the season 2 finale point for point.

 

Though naturally, since Snow wasn't saving her idol Regina, then they didn't need to sacrifice the whole town for one person (even though Anna could actually save them as opposed to Regina who cursed them in the first place, but that's just logic and consequences talking...don't mind those.) So...Where's your "It wouldn't be the right thing to do -- to let someone else die for us. I can't have that blood on my hands" Speech now, Snow White!?! Oh, the hypocrisy. I mean, if it's not Regina's blood on Snow's hands it's not actually blood and so it doesn't matter. I also like how the Charmings left it up to Emma to deliver their decision to Elsa. Way to own up to your choices, Snow and David. I think I'm starting to hate these two idiots as much as I hate Regina. Cheers!

Edited December 1, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Blue Plastic]

The physics governing the chest that Blackbeard threw Anna and Kristoff into were interesting.  Somehow it was able to let in large bars of sunlight (despite the fact that it was at the bottom of the ocean) while simultaneously letting in relatively small trickles of water (again, despite the fact that it was at the bottom of the ocean).  Maybe that thing was enchanted and Blackbeard didn't know it.  Super handy, just like it was super handy that Elsa wished for Anna to come to her right at the last possible moment before it became too late.

 

Okay, so what was it about Hook's kiss that let Emma know something was wrong with him?

 

Gold has never shown that much interest in Henry before, not even as an "object" representative of Bae's memory, so I'm not sure why he's bothering to try to get the kid out of town now.  The only time he's ever tried to help Henry before is when Bae/Neal was alive and insisted on it, that I can recall.

 

Loved Snow's crack about how when Regina was Mayor, Regina herself was the only villain around, so she had plenty of spare time to keep the town's infrastructure updated.  More of that, please.  For every Woegina moment, there must be a Snow-snark in return.

 

I thought maybe the Boob (Blue) Fairy was going to manage to escape before Hook could deploy the hat on her.  This distracted me from the Jurassic Park-esque aspects of the scene.

 

And am I evil that I want to see how baby Neal is affected? I guess an evil newborn would just scream his head off constantly and treat the people he normally would be trusting like total strangers, with even more screaming.

He's probably thinking about how they always make him wait too long to be fed or get his diaper changed!  "And now mean old Mom has left me with Emma, who has never really liked me!"

[Shanna Marie]

Gold has never shown that much interest in Henry before, not even as an "object" representative of Bae's memory, so I'm not sure why he's bothering to try to get the kid out of town now.

It might be slightly more difficult for him to convince Belle that everything's okay and that he's good if he doesn't at least try to protect Henry. If he left his grandson behind, she'd know something was up, but if he brings Henry along as they "escape" the curse, then he looks all heroic for managing to save his grandson.

 

Then again, this is Belle we're talking about. He could hack Henry to pieces with an axe right in front of her and she'd still believe Rumple was good inside and that Henry had probably been bratty enough to drive him to take drastic measures.

 

But I do think he might feel a tiny bit bad if he left Henry behind. Right now, he's managing to rationalize and justify everything he's doing, but even he might have pangs of guilt if he got his grandson killed. He did travel to Neverland with his worst enemy in order to rescue Henry when he thought Bae/Neal was dead and when he was pretty sure he was going to die in the process, so it's not like it's unprecedented for him to have some concern for the kid. I don't think he'd have given it a moment's thought if Henry stood between him and getting what he wants, but when it comes to just getting a concession from Ingrid, he might as well make the effort to save Henry..

[scenicbyway]

Okay, so what was it about Hook's kiss that let Emma know something was wrong with him?

 

 

I'd like to know this too.  Perhaps it just "felt" different?  Maybe she caught on to him being sad?  I don't know, she sensed something was off last week too.  Maybe it's the connection they have that she's finally recognizing?  She had that shell shocked look when she came in from their first date too.

[satrunrose]

I really enjoyed this one! By the end I was teary, my heart was beating a bit fast and I didn't want it to end. If I had taken a step back, I would have realized that of course they were going to go through with the shattered sight because the possibilities of (almost) everyone being "evil" are too good for writers to pass up but I was so caught up in the action that I kept being sure that Emma and Elsa would save the day at the last minute. 

 

Other things I enjoyed about the episode were Anna and Kristoff, Rumple and Heartless Hook, Regina having a moment of self-awareness with Robin before the curse hit (I also thought Lana P's look of fear as she waited in the vault was a nice bit of acting), and all of the goodbyes. I know they have a ridiculous number of emotionally charged goodbyes on this show but they give the Charmings such a good chance to hit it out of the park that I don't object too much. There have been a lot of good reasons to not be a Snow fan lately, but I enjoyed the writing and the acting for the scene where Snow gives Emma the baby. 

 

As others have said, there was a ton of contrivance, but the only two things that really bugged me were Rumple's plan (How exactly is he going to convince evil Belle (who totally has his number) and Henry to leave town with him? How is he going to un-evil them?) and how Charming and Snow and Kristoff and Elsa and Anna and Emma were all choosing restrained places within earshot of each other. They can't physically attack each other, yes (and I'm guessing that doesn't work out so well given the preview), but my understanding is that the spell doesn't make you lie, it makes you believe and act on what you think in those really dark and nasty moments so even if they couldn't touch, there could be some seriously psychologically damaging stuff being said that I wouldn't think Emma would really want to hear. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by satrunrose

[Jean]

I so called the Anna/Kristoff stuff being present day in the spoiler thread and that they were frozen for 30 years. But the wishing star was contrived especially since we only found out about it 5 minutes before it was used, as was the whole cure bit. They could've cut out that whole Anna vs town bit with the necklace to spend time on the Frozen reunion. I would feel ripped off if I was only lured to this show by Frozen. It's a total bait and switch.

Speaking of which, the necklace moral crisis only served to make Snow look bad. Hey Snow remember when you risked your kid, your husband's and the entire town's lives so you could go off and save the whiny victim who cursed them all? Yeah at least Elsa was trying to save her sister at the expense of strangers and acquaintances.

I thought it was funny that Elsa, one of the 2 or 3 or however many the writers want to grant immunity to for plot point, was the only one covering her eyes. I take it her, Emma and Anna will somehow break the curse as the power of 3 to represent Ingrid and her sisters. They should just dress up like the sisters and go haunt Ingrid and drive her crazy. Emma could be Helga and Anna could be Gerda.

I'm hoping baby Snowflake turns into Damien from the Omen. Or Rosemary's baby. Surely they can give him some magical ability to make a chandelier fall on someone's head or push someone down the stairs.

Rumple wants to get out of town with Belle and Henry but he sits around and picks his nose until it's too late? Shoddy writing.

[snarkastic]

Okay, but where the heck was the locater spell even leading Elsa, since Anna was still in another realm at the time? I mean, I guess it's sorta consistent with Prince Eric's cloak going into the water in 3.17, but is there some sorta permanent passage to the Enchanted Forest in the ocean or...?

[GraceAnne]

Hook and Rumple remain my favorite couple.... I wish those crazy kids would just admit their feelings for each other!

I have to say I was initially concerned about all the new cast but now I'm looking to trade Robin Hood for Will .... And possible the whole Arendelle group for Regina, Henry, and snow.

[Shanna Marie]

I mean, I guess it's sorta consistent with Prince Eric's cloak going into the water in 3.17, but is there some sorta permanent passage to the Enchanted Forest in the ocean or...?

Ariel was able to swim between worlds in the ocean, so maybe so.

 

I'm guessing that Ingrid's spell on Arendelle broke when Ingrid found out Elsa was in Storybrooke, along with Emma. Then she didn't need Arendelle to be frozen anymore because she had what she wanted. It seemed like it might have taken at least a week or so for Anna and Kristoff to find Blackbeard and get to him, which seems to have been about the amount of time since Elsa's been in town. So the initial flashback in which they thaw was actually a flashback, but the confrontation with Blackbeard and the trunk scenes were sideways, since they were simultaneous.

 

They made a point of mentioning that they were on the Jolly Roger, an enchanted ship, so maybe that was why the locator spell worked. The Jolly Roger is built from enchanted wood and has been to our world, so there might have been some connection there that allowed the locator spell work while they were on board. The spell quit working when they were dumped overboard.

[Bluerang1]

What a great episode! I was actually moved emotionally. I liked how the wishing star was the necklace but my goodness do they keep throwing Elsa's parents under the bus. Again, they're allowed to ruin their charcater but aren't allowed to change Elsa's clothes? Ok.

[KR Vermont]

I so agreed with the statement about Anna: she's too talky. ha

With everyone exchanging casual pleasantries while the curse was bearing down on Storybrooke any moment now, why couldn't Emma have taken her own few seconds to question Hook about why his goodbye kiss felt so off? And I understand he can't/won't let on about his own angst with Rumple to her, but the ongoing lack of communication gets to me.

 

I am only one of five people who have never seen Frozen so I have little idea about what's going on.

I've yet to be struck with the desire to see Frozen or even read a summary. It likely wouldn't help me much anyway, since I can't keep track of all the characters and how they're connected and in what realms and time frames...gah. I quit the show in the midst of the Neverland/Pan episodes last season, I was bored, but got back on board from the start of this season because I hoped the show would regain that magic it had, once upon a time. I'm thinking I should binge watch all the seasons and draw up a flow chart during the winter break, and maybe then I can make better sense of it all. ;) And throw in OUAT in Wonderland while I'm at it (didn't see any of it).

Edited December 1, 2014 by KR Vermont

[Emperor Kuzco]

I really enjoyed this episode! I felt the pacing was much better this week and all the running around was actually leading up to something.

 

They really pulled on the ole heartstrings this week! I felt emotionally invested in what's about to happen. Loved Anna wanting to marry Kristoff in the trunk and especially the Elsa/Anna reunion, I definitely got all misty eyed! Oh gosh and when Emma and Killian were saying good-bye- gah! And Emma totally knows something is off with Killian.

 

I want to punch Rumple in the face. Can't wait til this all comes back to bite him in the ass, or like someone else was saying, for Lacey to make an appearance and cause some damage.

 

Lol'd when Kristoff, David, and Anna started rambling about their recent hairstyles. I personally really enjoy Elsa and Anna's characters, even though Anna is a bit 'pollyanna' and too chatty as some people have mentioned. But to me she seems 'real' and I find her relationship with Elsa to be quite endearing and believable. Their reunion was touching.  

 

Can't wait for Snow to go all crazy on Regina, it's been a long time coming!

[ParadoxLost]

Rumple's an idiot. And Hook's not far behind. Everyone else hides inside and these two are standing around without even a ceiling to protect them. While I suppose they are both immune (deals with Ice Queen and being heartless), the cloud was raining shards of ice and glass. It might just freaking hurt. 

 

I was wondering why no one even tried safety glasses.  EQ could have even tried to spell them to be impenetrable.

[retrograde]

CLOSE YOUR EYES, OH MY GOD WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY JUST CLOSE THEIR EYES.

 

 

 

 

That is all.

[Blue Plastic]

I'd like to know this too.  Perhaps it just "felt" different?  Maybe she caught on to him being sad?  I don't know, she sensed something was off last week too.  Maybe it's the connection they have that she's finally recognizing?  She had that shell shocked look when she came in from their first date too.

Maybe his kiss feels different without his heart present.  That's all I got.  But that probably doesn't make much sense since apparently Regina is full of love and light (#@%$&!) even without her heart.

 

Rumple wants to get out of town with Belle and Henry but he sits around and picks his nose until it's too late?

That gives me an interesting visual!  I never thought of Gold like that before!

[ParadoxLost]

What was funny is that they made a point of showing the shards coming in through the ventilation, so some kind of precaution could have worked, in theory, for the simple reason that the shards didn't make it through the roof.

[Camera One]

Lesson to the Blue Fairy: the next-to-last episode before the half-season finale is when you should say goodbye to everyone and lock yourself in a cellar somewhere. 

 

Despite the never failing end-of-season waterfall of coincidences that suddenly jumpstart the conveyer belt of plot, they did a good job of creating and sustaining momentum in this episode. They've had so many doomsday scenarios, but I thought they did create an ominous atmosphere.  

 

Regina is quite the Curse Meteorologist.. She nailed the arrival of the Curse Cloud to be sundown.  And yeah, it was so necessary for each person to view it with binoculars at the beginning.  

 

Suddenly, there's a vaccine to undo the effects of the Curse?  This show really can be comedy gold if you watch it the right way.  The entire convent could fit in Granny's diner?  Shouldn't there be millions of fairies?  Wouldn't it have taken hours to vacuum them all up with the Hat?  

 

How convenient that Rumple left some gold straw around.  Does he shed like a cat?  Anna and Kristoff's scenes were fun, even though they were spitting out a quip per minute.  This episode had the most interaction between the two of them thus far, and they do work well off one another.  

 

I thought the whole Anna/Elsa reunion was well done, despite being rushed.  Though it is just ridiculously hard to swallow Anna and Kristoff just happened to be trapped in a chest that very minute.  Why did the necklace lead them into the mines?  That beach could have been accessed from the surface.  Ingrid unfreezing Arendelle made no sense either.  Oh whatever...

 

To give more space to other scenes, I agree with Jean that the whole debate over whether to save one person vs. the town could have been cut.  It was pointless and served only to make Snow seem like a hypocrite and muddied up Elsa.  This was the second episode in a row where Snow and Charming needed Regina to prompt them to know the right thing to do, which is just ridiculous and insulting.  They would have been better served showing Snow trying to organize something to protect the townspeople, who are always ignored no matter what.  Why not magically seal everyone in town into whichever room they're in?  This would also have prevented the obvious repeat of the S2 finale, as Aliasscape pointed out.

 

Regina's sealing herself into the vault makes no sense, since she can undo her own magic.  Why not take a sleeping Curse, for all our sakes? 

 

Most ridiculous line when heard out of context... Robin Hood: "I'll go and chain myself to a tree in a minute."

Edited December 1, 2014 by Camera One

[Blue Plastic]

You know, why is Elsa's heart pure enough to use the Wishing Star when she had just tricked everybody with the empty pouch?  That was an understandable but semi-selfish move on her part.  Just how pure does your heart have to be for it to work?  Just pure with regard to what you are asking for or does it have to be pure about everything you've ever done in your life?  I.e., it won't work if you wish for money, fame, beauty, etc., for yourself but will work if you ask for something noble with no thought of getting something for yourself?

[KR Vermont]

CLOSE YOUR EYES, OH MY GOD WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY JUST CLOSE THEIR EYES.

Logic apparently plays no part in this fairytale mashup. haha

 

I cringed a bit at the thought of actual glass shards entering people's eyes rather than it being a figurative representation (I've had auto glass shatter into my scalp, so that scene was like a comical slow-motion flashback).

Edited December 1, 2014 by KR Vermont

[TwistedandBored]

I enjoyed watching this episode. The part about Emma saying goodbye to her parents really got to me!

 

I was hoping NotRobin Hood would get locked with Regina in that crypt. Missed opportunity for the rest of us who have to put up with these two on a weekly basis. We need some payoff too you know!

[Souris]

You know, why is Elsa's heart pure enough to use the Wishing Star when she had just tricked everybody with the empty pouch?  That was an understandable but semi-selfish move on her part.  Just how pure does your heart have to be for it to work?  Just pure with regard to what you are asking for or does it have to be pure about everything you've ever done in your life?  I.e., it won't work if you wish for money, fame, beauty, etc., for yourself but will work if you ask for something noble with no thought of getting something for yourself?

 

I totally meant to mention that, too! I side-eyes that. But, hey, if Regina can TLK and do light-magic, what's a brief bout of selfishness for Elsa?

[foreverevolving]

So i nearly completely forgot there was an episode tonight. Remembered about an hour and half before, and then forgot again only to remember at 10 past 8, so I just waited to find an online stream. it was a good episode for the most part.

 

The only time I teared up: Hook saying goodbye to Emma. seriously they are beginning to be the only reason i watch this show. and Will... him too; and Robin's, especially Robin body. Anna and Kristof are like close 4th or something.

 

Didn't feel anything in the last scene with Snow and Charming, i did feel a bit sad when Snow ended the baby to Emma.

 

I wonder if Hook got to our world via a wishing star? If Black Beard had one to give to frozenna parents than perhaps he had another one which he gave to hook in return for the Jolly Roger?

 

About next week: i thought Regina sealed the mayor office to any incoming and outgoings, to keep Henry safe, so... how does hook manages to enter it? Also: the marbles are totally awesome, and i can see a 14 year old kid with little fighting skills going for the obvious. Trust me, slipping on those bad puppies is god damn painful, almost as painful as slipping on ice.

[The Cake is a Pie]

When Hook and Rumple were standing in front of Granny's, with the hat in Hook's hand locked and loaded, did anyone else yell, "What are you waiting for, HAT HIM!!!"?

So I'm a little confused on one thing (well, many things, but this right now)... the spell is supposed to make everyone see the worst in each other, not just full on go eviltwin by themselves, right?

Assuming the "sight" part of the spell is significant, I don't know why no one thought to just blindfold everyone so no one could see anyone else. Or cast some sort of darkness spell.

[ParadoxLost]

Assuming the "sight" part of the spell is significant, I don't know why no one thought to just blindfold everyone so no one could see anyone else. Or cast some sort of darkness spell.

 

I assume that would be a short-lived coping mechanism as they would battle the evil darkness.

[pezgirl7]

Regina said the curse doesn't care about ceilings when someone suggested they hide in the mines. I figured there really was no way to escape it, even by shutting your eyes. But that doesn't mean everyone had to stand there, looking up, while the glass floated in! I guess it was more dramatic that way.

I read on tumblr that one person thought that what Emma could sense about Hook's kiss was that it was more of a final goodbye kiss, like he was kissing her for the last time. I don't think that's what she felt, but thought it was an interesting take. I think Hook would kiss a lot more passionately if he had his heart, so maybe that's what Emma didn't quite feel which made her question it.

I wonder if Hook got to our world via a wishing star? If Black Beard had one to give to frozenna parents than perhaps he had another one which he gave to hook in return for the Jolly Roger?

Hook already told Emma he traded his ship for a magic bean. I see no reason for him to lie about that. Also, as much as some people like to think he does, I wouldn't quite say Hook is pure of heart! Edited December 1, 2014 by pezgirl7

[snarkastic]

Okay, I keep seeing everyone say that Ariel is the mermaid that rescued Blackbeard (not just here), but wasn't she still on the Jolly when he went into the water and got eaten by sharks/churning bubbles? When would she have possibly saved him? (And this show would have said LITTLE mermaid to be clear it was her, if it was.)

[Leia1979]

I just thought of another flaw in Regina's plan to lock herself in her vault.

 

Not only could she magic herself out, but what's stopping her from playing "Eeny, meeny, crush-a-heart.", even if she couldn't figure out how to get out?

I viewed her plan as more about keeping herself safe from others rather than keeping others safe from her, even though she is a far more dangerous person than 99% of Storybrooke residents.

 

Whew, a lot of things happened this episode despite the slowest moving curse ever. Elsa totally pulled a Hook--you'd think Emma would have learned to check the bag by now. I was very confused by the timeline for about a minute, leading to a short rewind. I suspected Arendelle would be conveniently frozen for 28-30 years, but for some reason I forgot during the Blackbeard scene and thought the writers had made a really big error until Hans cleared up the time jump. 

 

Regina apologizing to Henry about not focusing enough on Operation Mongoose sounded like a line thrown in simply to remind us that the writers haven't forgotten about it (darn). Her priorities are absolutely skewed--it's so unimportant in light of the entire town potentially going to hell (sorry, I've been watching Angel lately).

 

I've seen several comments about Emma thinking something was off about Hook from the kiss. I'm going to take a different route and wonder if there was possibly TLK foreshadowing going on. Either that or it just felt much more like a permanent good-bye than Emma was expecting (and from Hook's POV, it was likely the last time he ever expected to see her).

 

Props to Curio, whose fake press release for this episode was at least 90% accurate.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Leia1979

[The Cake is a Pie]

Yeah, I'm being a bit facetious with the blindfolds suggestion, since we know nothing physical will stop it, because magic. Still, it would make a little sense to have someone suggest something simple like that, even if it were just dismissed right away.

I thought Hook was being uncharacteristically UNemotional in his goodbye scene with Emma, especially compared to her tears. Usually it's the other way around. Maybe that is what she felt was different.

[Camera One]

Hopefully, they'll define better what Shattered Sight actually means.  Ingrid made it sound like they would all turn into psycho murderers.  In the book, it was simply more that people would only see the worse in others and be cold and cynical, sort of like an allegory of the world around us, how there is so much distrust and hate.

 

The other thing they should probably clarify is why the Snow Queen cares about having everyone kill each other via the Curse.  How is that going to make Elsa and Emma more receptive to her?  Is she planning to mindwipe them?  

[ParadoxLost]

I read on tumblr that one person thought that what Emma could sense about Hook's kiss was that it was more of a final goodbye kiss, like he was kissing her for the last time. I don't think that's what she felt, but thought it was an interesting take. I think Hook would kiss a lot more passionately if he had his heart, so maybe that's what Emma didn't quite feel which made her question it.

 

Maybe it was Emma's superpower and she could sense the lie in something he said since he's playing this as if its the curse he is worried about but really its Rumpel.

[KAOS Agent]

Giant cloud is headed for town. We clearly need to stand in the clock tower and use binoculars to see it. Pointless scene.

 

So Hook goes to the harbor and the ice wall is just forming. Now they're saying people could have left by boat the entire time? What the hell? Emma should have just stolen a speedboat and gotten out of Dodge last episode.

 

Regina brings Henry to Robin's camp after refusing to let him stay with Emma and then just sends him home alone? Seriously?

 

Anna thinks pirates are better than wizards. Anna's on Team Hook then.

 

It was interesting that they called the bottom of the sea Poseidon's Boneyard and not Davy Jones Locker.

 

Less hugging and reuniting. More planning and organizing. Like how about putting some food and water in the jail cell with them? I hope Henry's got snacks in his backpack. 

 

Poor Emma. Let's just dump saving everyone on her all over again. As an added bonus, if she fails, her parents will die a horrible death by dehydration. She was so right. No one knows what might happen to her with the Snow Queen or how long it will take. She falls through a portal every season, so she's due.

 

I kind of thought her kiss with Hook brought to mind a possible True Love's Kiss, but then all she'd need to do is find Henry since he is her confirmed True Love. And wouldn't they have already thought of that anyway? 

 

Finally, Diner Speech Part II wherein Snow listens to Regina about saving the many over the one. I guess when Regina makes the case that the innocent must die, it's okay, but when Emma makes the case that the evil guilty one who was responsible for the whole mess must die, it's all wrong. They were absolutely right in their choice, but that whole scene just rubbed me the wrong way. 

[The Cake is a Pie]

How did Hans know they were frozen for 30 years? Did Blackbeard tell them? Is there an Arendelle newspaper delivery service?

Edited December 1, 2014 by The Cake is a Pie

[ParadoxLost]

It was interesting that they called the bottom of the sea Poseidon's Boneyard and not Davy Jones Locker.

 

The don't want to get into the fact that there is both a Swan and Jones in that movie (Pirates of the Caribbean). Yet.

Edited December 1, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[Jean]

I think Elsa still had a "pure" heart because it wasn't like she said "I'm going to find my sister, everyone else can die." She believed she could find Anna who could provide the cure for the townspeople. Anna had a purpose beyond just being Elsa's sister. She wanted to do both and they couldn't come up with a good reason why they wanted her to sacrifice her goal for their benefit beyond "we think it'll take too long." Standing around gabbing about making a decision wasted more time. There's zero reason why Elsa should defer to them and their decisions.

But this show plays fast and loose with definitions and rules anyway as has been pointed out. A&E are totally the type to go, well the word "the" can have several different meanings depending on context and a million other factors.

Also aren't the fairies magic-less without wands and fairy dust? What good is hatting them without their equipment?

The other thing they should probably clarify is why the Snow Queen cares about having everyone kill each other via the Curse.  How is that going to make Elsa and Emma more receptive to her?

She wants to prove to E&E that eventually everyone, not born with magic, turns on each other, even the people they claim to love. She hasn't quite worked out the "turning on each other because of my spell" part out yet but hey it's a work in progress.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Jean

[Camera One]

Also aren't the fairies magic-less without wands and fairy dust? What good is hatting them without their equipment?

 

Exactly.  Treats Rumple right if it doesn't work.  I wanted to see the Blue Fairy duplicate herself and then crawl away while the Fake version of her got Hatted.  Why can't they have the good guys do anything smart.

[FabulousTater]

Also aren't the fairies magic-less without wands and fairy dust? What good is hatting them without their equipment?

Ha! Good point, but you answered your own question in the paragraph preceding the question above. Namely:

 

"But this show plays fast and loose with definitions and rules anyway as has been pointed out." ;-)

Edited December 1, 2014 by FabulousTater