S05.E08: Coda

[Pete Martell]

Now if it were me, Id process that as such: a nice group of people, strong survivors who are nurturing women children and the disabled elderly. They save people and share what they have. But clearly something is wrong with their leader right now. I would NOT have processed that as : What a bunch of assholes! Kill them all and the baby too. So yeah, ungrateful.

 

You could say that about Woodbury too. As far as they knew, a few kind people helped them before they were kicked out by a deeply unstable man. They make their way to Woodbury, where they are also given kind treatment, and see the elderly and children being protected. They learn that the leader and the people in his group attacked Woodbury, killed various townspeople, and let walkers loose on innocents, resulting in more carnage. They knew little at all about The Governor, or that they should be wary of Woodbury. 

 

Sasha and Tyreese had the choice to overpower and possibly kill the women and elderly and children at the prison, and they refused. That was not what they wanted.

[paramitch]

That shit is just standard Hollywood. Something big is falling in a straight line from the sky! Rather than stepping 10 feet to the left or right, please run directly in the path of the incoming object to maximize yourself as a target. Sigh. .

 

Oh, I'm so with you on this one. I just have one word for you: PROMETHEUS. If you saw the movie, you know what I'm talking about. One of the stupidest

deaths I've ever seen (and worst of all, for the film's only genuinely smart character.)

 

I also agree that it would have been nice to give Beth the real hero moment, not Daryl (I hate that her attempt on Dawn was so puny and silly).

 

Or even better, I like the idea suggested by a few posters in which Beth (as a result of her growth and strength) stood up and did a full-on Norma Rae and asked the others to stand with her and to let Noah go and to give up on the hospital's screwed-up power hierarchy. Dawn could then have taken her out or even struggled with patients trying to join Beth/Noah and once again 'accidentally' killed Beth, and then Daryl or Rick could have reacted and Beth still could have gone out in a way that I would have found to be more in-character for her.

 

The thing that bothered me about Tyreese's monologue was that it was completely inaccurate and inconsistent. The point of his monologue was that, "We're exactly the same as we always were!" to Sasha and she was just looking at him like, "Are you kidding me?" I just don't buy that Tyreese, even Pollyanna that he is, could actually think that for a second.  It's even weirder when you remember that the guy spend most of a recent season enraged and semi-murderous over the loss of Karen. He just seems like a different character this season, and in a sloppy way that bothers me. I can buy that he struggles with the issue of the violent world they now inhabit. But I don't buy that he'd take actions that endanger the group (as he has) out of an inability to act.

[Pete Martell]

This cleared up why Tyreese and Sasha's ethical struggles don't resonate. During their rooftop discussion, Tyreese seems to reaffirm the value of compassion, non-violence and one's sense of self. That should have been encouraging for the audience to hear. But it kind of fell flat because the fur was flying all around them. 

 

That was part of it, but the main problem is that his advice, however well-intentioned, was not being given at the right time for Sasha, and was severely undercut by his admitting that his goodness and belief in humanity led him to lie about killing a man who nearly snapped a baby's neck, and soon returned with his group to do the same. 

 

The show continues to have a very, very confusing view of what it means to be a pacifist. Does it mean being brave and kind? Or does it mean being a fool? Is going OTT, like what happened with Karen and David, or at the church, going too far? Or is it what you have to do?

 

The only character who is written with any consistency in this area is Michonne, who is very compassionate and self-sacrificing, yet has no problem with being brutal when need be.

[TigerLynx]

There were things I liked about this episode, and things that just made me go, "Whatever."

 

Things I liked:

 

- Rick and Darryl discussing the best course of action.

- Rick running the guy down with the car and shooting him.

- Sniper taking out the walker, Rick saying his people were around, and the look the two policemen exchanged.  It was a nice acknowledgment that even in the ZA where everyone is in survival mode that that was still one hell of a shot to make.

- Maggie finally having a reaction to everyone, including Beth, that she has lost, but it could have been developed more over time.

[Timetoread]

Well you could absolutely say that about Woodsbury.  I don't fault them for taking up with Woodsbury.  The Governor was perpetrating a fraud - as in LYING about what he was.  That's shame on HIM, not those who believed him.  That said, I'm not making a case that Sasha and Tyrese are agents of Satan, I'm saying that it bothered me that their summation of CDB was that they are ALL bad because Rick was an ass.  Also, I have NO issue at all with Sasha.  It's Tyrese.  Tyrese (flames).

[Pete Martell]

I understand what you mean. I thought the whole story was dumb, and just felt like a way to stall time until Tyreese and Sasha joined the group. I guess I could see why they were torn, especially when the father and son were very much against the prison group. But the whole thing was a mess...I still cringe when I remember the father randomly yelling at Tyreese because the dead wife we saw for 5 minutes had always liked Tyreese more.

[Milaxx]

I too could forgive Tyreese & Sasha for initially siding with Woodbury and the Governor.  As already mentioned Woodbury took them in when Rick booted them out. Here's nice clean, well manner looking Woodbury versus dirty, run by crazy eyed Rick the prison. I also give them a pass for changing allegiances once they realized ole Gov was the crazy one. Now that doesn't mean I forgive the person Tyreese has now become, it just means I'm not holding Woodbury against them.

 

Concerning the daycare: No one could or would put toddlers through the hours-long makeup sessions needed to turn them into zombies. No one on the show, I mean. I'm  sure there are parents out there crazy enough to be willing to that or anything else to get their kids on TV!

They could certainly show older child walkers by hiring very short, adult extras/actors, but maybe it's thought that no one wants to see little kiddy zombies?

 

Do we know for sure the school was an elementary school. I forget and I don't have any interest in looking it up. If it was a high school, grown looking walkers makes sense.

Another poster spec'd that perhaps the goo goo stuff was representative of his son. I wondered if maybe the bullet represented what he couldn't do for his wife? Shoot her? Because she was the one that killed Duane. Maybe it's a reminder to himself of how he slipped up and that he can't do that again?

I thought the bullet was for himself Something he was saving if things got too rough. I also wonder if he laughed because by praying he realized he still had hope.

[AngelaHunter]

QuoteQuote

Tyrese (flames).

 

 

Here's a little time saver for you:;)

 

 

 

I too could forgive Tyreese & Sasha for initially siding with Woodbury and the Governor.  As already mentioned Woodbury took them in when Rick booted them out.

 

Agree completely. I wouldn't blame anyone for preferring Woodbury to the prison.

Edited December 3, 2014 by AngelaHunter

[Timetoread]

Perfect!

[Ellaria]

The show continues to have a very, very confusing view of what it means to be a pacifist. Does it mean being brave and kind? Or does it mean being a fool? Is going OTT, like what happened with Karen and David, or at the church, going too far? Or is it what you have to do?

Well said. One of best observations in this entire thread. This show squanders opportunities to present the point of view of a pacifist in this new world. It can't be and shouldn't be all bad-ass brutality. However, it shifts to "fool" much too often. I think that there is lots of room in between to create characters that are still making those choices and making them intelligently.

[AngelaHunter]

I just rewatched to clear up a few things for myself. I know some of us were wondering what the "I get it now" from Beth meant. It referred back to the conversation she and Dawn had at the elevator shaft when Dawn said, "Things have to be done a certain way here. Don't you get that?"

 

Her shooting Beth was a reflex action to being stabbed and she said "I didn't mean it" right afterwards. Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but there are too many posts here to check.

[GreyBunny]

Because knowing when to cut your losses is always the sign of a bad leader. God, how did Dawn last as long as she did? Is there a reason why most of the men - who apparently didn't like her at all and obviously outnumbered her - let her be leader and boss them around?

 

Because she let them get away with what they wanted and they didn't have to deal with the paperwork or the fallout.  They could be rapey to their hearts' content and Dawn would be the one the victims would focus their anger on.  Also, if one of them became the leader, the logistics of running things, etc. would cut into their rape-time.  It was useful for them to have Dawn be in charge.

 

As for BadBob running in a straight line - yeah.  What an idiot.  I laugh when I see people running down the road, especially in a wooded area, with a car chasing them.  They could dash right or left into the trees where the car can't follow them and they can hide, but no, they just keep running down the middle of the street.  If BadBob was that stupid then he deserved to get run down.  Shut up, indeed.

Edited December 3, 2014 by GreyBunny

[missy jo]

As far as the hospital people staying, I viewed it was "the known" versus "the unknown." And further, Rick's gang looks like an ultra-violent, ultra-sketchy filthy band of mauraders. I'd be terrified to run into them!

 

ETA:

How many fathers would put their children in a situation where they'd be living with a variety of strangers, some of whom are rapists?

 

This occurred to me, but even after talking with Noah, I doubt he got every single gory detail of life at the hospital. So I didn't feel like it was "top of mind" for him.

 

Thanks for the spelling on "marauders," GreyBunny. I couldn't remember it for the life of me, LOL.

Edited December 3, 2014 by missy jo

[GreyBunny]

As far as the hospital people staying, I viewed it was "the known" versus "the unknown." And further, Rick's gang looks like an ultra-violent, ultra-sketchy filthy band of mauraders. I'd be terrified to run into them!

 

It's tempting to stay, but I'd know that supplies at the hospital were running low; food and electricity and water can't last forever.  It would only be a matter of time before everyone needed to do what this filthy band of marauders was already doing.  I'd leave with Rick's group because it looks like they already know how to survive and I could learn from them rather than be trapped with a bunch of people who wouldn't know what to do when the lights finally went out for good.  

 

Plus they had women and children and, with Beth and Carol's rescue attempt, they care for and go to great lengths to protect their own.  I'd rather be with a band that was loyal than with some cops, wards and a doctor who could turn on you in a moment's notice to save their own skin.

Edited December 3, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Irishmaple]

I think the thing that held back the hospital people is the fact that none of them from Dawn down has accepted that this is the rest of their lives.  It's not temporary.  It's not going to end any time soon.  No-one is coming to fix anything.  Beth tried to point that out but Dawn didn't listen.  I don't think any one at the hospital has accepted what CDB has.  As Maggie said on the road "It's never going to get better than this."  I'd take my chances with the people who came to rescue two of their own.  There's no future at the hospital: resources are going to grow scarce, Walkers are going to find a way through the barricades, frustration is going to set in as the years pass and civilization fails to return.  There has to be somewhere better and it's worth looking to find it.

[AngelaHunter]

I viewed it was "the known" versus "the unknown."

 

Right, although in this case it's more like "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

 

I can understand the hospital people passing up the offer to go with CDB, and maybe they still harbour a vague hope of some sort of rescue in the future. I doubt I'd go and leave my comforts to cast my lot with a gang who looks as though they've fighting trench warfare for years.

[English Teacher]

I know I am wrong but I actually had to rewind the death scene again. On my tiny tv on first viewing it looked like Beth was grabbing dawns gun to shoot herself. I thought she sacrificed herself to free Noah and bring down Dawn knowing it would provoke Team Grimes. But really....she thought stitching scissors would be lethal?

[NoWillToResist]

Oh, I'm so with you on this one. I just have one word for you: PROMETHEUS. If you saw the movie, you know what I'm talking about.

 

That was literally the scene I was thinking of when I wrote my post. :)

[Iguessnot]

I think the thing that held back the hospital people is the fact that none of them from Dawn down has accepted that this is the rest of their lives.  It's not temporary.  It's not going to end any time soon.  No-one is coming to fix anything.  Beth tried to point that out but Dawn didn't listen.  I don't think any one at the hospital has accepted what CDB has.  As Maggie said on the road "It's never going to get better than this."  I'd take my chances with the people who came to rescue two of their own.  There's no future at the hospital: resources are going to grow scarce, Walkers are going to find a way through the barricades, frustration is going to set in as the years pass and civilization fails to return.  There has to be somewhere better and it's worth looking to find it.

There might be something better somewhere, but why leave the functioning society of the hospital now since Dawn and a few bad seeds have been done away with? Make plans if you ever have to leave, plan escapes routes, but all the ZA can ever be is finding a safe haven. Isn't that what the prison was?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Iguessnot

[GreyBunny]

That society wasn't functioning, bad cops were getting away with terrorizing and raping the weaker members.  Dawn thought she was getting rid of the bad seed when she killed Hanson, then she became the bad seed.  Will that female cop who appears to be the new leader also turn into a bad seed?  Unless they take apart and examine the power structure at the hospital and change it in some fundamental ways, it'll just happen again and again.  Plus that doctor is pretty shifty.

 

If I leave with Rick I may be eating cold beans and sleeping in trees, but at least I probably won't be raped by someone in his group.  Seeing Sasha among them and seeing Beth and Carol's eagerness to return to them and Noah's desire give up the material comforts of the hospital to go back out into the harsh unknown with them after only knowing them for a couple of days would tell me volumes.

Edited December 3, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Milaxx]

That society wasn't functioning, bad cops were getting away with terrorizing and raping the weaker members.  Dawn thought she was getting rid of the bad seed when she killed Hanson, then she became the bad seed.  Will that female cop who appears to be the new leader also turn into a bad seed?  Unless they take apart and examine the power structure at the hospital and change it in some fundamental ways, it'll just happen again and again.  Plus that doctor is pretty shifty.

 

Remember things were so bad that whale girl cut off her hand to get away. These so called "good cops" did nothing to intervene and likely wouldn't have until Rick & co arrived. That entire hospital is delusional any way you slice it.

[CletusMusashi]

Pun intended?

[AngelaHunter]

at least I probably won't be raped by someone in his group.

 

That's absolutely the last thing you'd need to worry about with them!

[AndySmith]

 

I know some of us were wondering what the "I get it now" from Beth meant. It referred back to the conversation she and Dawn had at the elevator shaft when Dawn said, "Things have to be done a certain way here. Don't you get that?"

 

Didn't Beth also react to something Dawn said earlier about how they "they come back, they always come back"? And for some reason, he comment to Noah "I knew you'd be back" is what set Beth off? Yeah, Beth's motives for killing Dawn just make no sense. She seemed resigned to having Noah return to the hospital but Dawn's comment "I knew you'd be back" is what sets off her crazy eyes towards Dawn. As nonsensical as the death itself.

[Pete Martell]

Regarding Morgan/Lenny James. He did a terrific job in those two episodes he was in, but the writing was very rich so imo that had a lot to do with his loyal following. It is hard for me to guess what they will do with his character. It almost seems like the creators are pandering to the fans.

 

Another minor character, Jim, (remember him?) did just as good of a job in his episode. It all has so much to do with the writing.

 

Jim was one of my favorite characters. I loved him. Still do. I loved him so much I even forgave that cringey cringey "It was in my dream!!" scene.

 

If there's any difference, it's that Jim mostly had his own journey, never truly with the group, whereas Morgan's journey is intertwined with Rick's. Add in the chemistry Andrew Lincoln and Lennie James share, and the great charisma James brings to the show, and I think it goes beyond writing. 

 

(with that said, writing does play a huge part, which is why I'm fine with him not being with the group yet. The show is uneven with group interactions)

[Jeezaloo]

With your magic wand? Or your special occasion, only-on-Tuesdays magic wand?

Easy.

No, you're right. It should be easy for Rick Grimes to just take over the hospital. Easy. Just take it over, Rick! Why are you a failure?

 

[Nashville]

I think the thing that held back the hospital people is the fact that none of them from Dawn down has accepted that this is the rest of their lives.  It's not temporary.  It's not going to end any time soon.  No-one is coming to fix anything.  Beth tried to point that out but Dawn didn't listen.  I don't think any one at the hospital has accepted what CDB has.  As Maggie said on the road "It's never going to get better than this."

 

This is almost exactly what I intended to post. 

 

Take a moment to think about where, emotionally speaking, CDB was in Season 1 going into 2. 

• First they go to the CDC, looking for safety.
• When the CDC setup collapses, they decide to head for Fort Benning - where they get interminably sidetracked (first hunting Sophia, then dealing with Carl's gunshot, etc., etc.).

 

My point being they weren't really looking for JUST safety; Rick&Co were actually on the search for "normal" - "normal", in this case, being some place where life is still continuing the same as it did pre-ZA.  In a sense, you could say CDB was following the Kubler-Ross model:

1. Denial: not a very long-lived response strategy in a zombie apocalypse, particularly when what you're denying is trying to floss with your jugular.
2. Anger: Helps to keep a good head of steam going when the latest walker horde pulls into town looking to grab a bite.  If you start cussing out a walker, however, all that's going to happen is (a) the walker you're cussing at won't pay any attention, and (b) the noise of your cussing will simply draw more walkers.  Again, not a good long-term solution.
3. Bargaining: where CDB was then, and where the Grady Bunch is now.  A general attitude of "Yeah, ok, we'll do all these horrible things now to survive - because if we do, we can survive until THEY* show up to rescue us, or we find some place where THEY* have established order."  Abraham and crew were actually pursuing this same course of action as they chased after Eugene's Holy Grail of Weapons of Mass Correction.
4. Depression: between the failure of the CDC to provide solace, the failure of the Farm, the failure of Woodbury, the failure of the Prison, etc., etc. - yeah, think that one's pretty much been covered already.
5. Acceptance: where most of CDB is now (and Tyreese can kiss my ass).  Rick has accepted it, Maggie said as much to Abraham, and even Beth said it to Dawn - this is the way things are, and they're not likely to get any better.

 

As I said, Dawn and the rest of the Grady Bunch are still stuck in Bargaining - thinking if they can hold out keeping the hospital maintained as some semblance of "normal" (albeit a very twisted version) for just long enough, THEY* will swoop in, get rid of all these pesky undead thingies, and save the day.  This, more than anything else, is Dawn's motivation.  This is how she rationalizes the capture of their "wards" - the G-Rape Apes aren't kidnapping them, they're bringing people to a "safe place" to await rescue.

 

 

* Cue deux ex machina

[JBody]

Yep. Good job. I have always thought TWD was, on some level, an exercise in portraying the stages of grief.

[JackONeill]

I've listened to everyone who has a theory about Dawn/Beth/Hospital.  And what I'm about to say doesn't mean that I disagree with a single one of you.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the hospital story made no sense, and will never make sense, not based upon what WE saw, and it's because the writers didn't do an effective job.  As to Beth, I think they wanted the character (and actress) gone.  So, she was killed in a mess of a situation that makes no sense, and we have to accept it and move on.

 

Another thing which I think is sad.  I think they always want to kill off characters.  Kirkman admitted this.  This is how they further the story.  So, poor Beth (maybe you didn't like the character or actress, and that's fine) gets tossed aside in a blaze of sheer and utter (and trivial) nonsense.

[RustbeltWriter]

How many fathers would put their children in a situation where they'd be living with a variety of strangers, some of whom are rapists? His son was nearly raped not all that long ago. Rick would have no real control over the hospital. He would be with people who have every reason to want him dead and to want his family and the group dead. If the choice is between that big of a risk, and going on the road with people he trusts, I'm not surprised he didn't want to be there. 

 

To me, at least, the invitation to stay seemed sincere. I think the doctor and other hospital survivors genuinely wanted things to change and they took the opportunity of Dawn's death to invite Rick and his group inside. My thinking is that with such a large group of well armed and tough people joining them the culture of the hospital would have to change. The caste system they had set up wouldn't be able to continue, especially since so many of the cops had been killed in the storyline up to that point. From the perspective of the viewer, being based at the hospital may have been a bit boring but it's difficult to believe a father would turn down the relative safety of the hospital for his children.

[GreyBunny]

I've listened to everyone who has a theory about Dawn/Beth/Hospital.  And what I'm about to say doesn't mean that I disagree with a single one of you.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the hospital story made no sense, and will never make sense, not based upon what WE saw, and it's because the writers didn't do an effective job.  As to Beth, I think they wanted the character (and actress) gone.  So, she was killed in a mess of a situation that makes no sense, and we have to accept it and move on.

 

Another thing which I think is sad.  I think they always want to kill off characters.  Kirkman admitted this.  This is how they further the story.  So, poor Beth (maybe you didn't like the character or actress, and that's fine) gets tossed aside in a blaze of sheer and utter (and trivial) nonsense.

 

It made sense to me.  Beth has a history of doing stupid and impulsive things and this time it got her killed.  Of course Kirkman and the others want to kill off characters, it's a zombie apocalypse show - a high death rate is a feature of the genre.  The word DEAD is right in the title.  A few of the characters might have plot armor for the time being but ultimately even Rick could be killed off.    

 

As a character from Game of Thrones (another show with a high death rate) said:  "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

Edited December 3, 2014 by GreyBunny

[bosawks]

In retrospect it could've been worse. At least Beth didn't try to kill Dawn with a pair of pinking shears.

[JackONeill]

It made sense to me.  Beth has a history of doing stupid and impulsive things and this time it got her killed.  Of course Kirkman and the others want to kill off characters, it's a zombie apocalypse show - a high death rate is a feature of the genre.  The word DEAD is right in the title.  A few of the characters might have plot armor for the time being but ultimately even Rick could be killed off.    

 

As a character from Game of Thrones (another show with a high death rate) said:  "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

 

And, of course, I get that.  I do understand characters will die, and I understand that sometimes it makes sense (Shane, Herschel) and sometimes it'll be totally random (Andrea's sister).  Such is life, and such is the ZA.  I get that. I've had people die on me in life, so I know it happens.

 

The whole "who-will-survive" (implicit in that is "who-will-die") is partly why I watch, but I much prefer "how-will-they-survive."  To me, that's where story-telling comes in.  I'm much less interested in who dies, frankly, and would rather watch how they survive.  That, to me, is where drama is.  And it's amplified because you know someone might die.  And, sometimes, like with Herschel, the death really resonates, and really (and oddly) captures the essence of everything that's happened and is happening.

 

And I think that's where TPTB dropped the ball with Beth.  They needed someone's neck on the chopping block, and they needed that neck cut.  It was the mid-season finale, and such things are important for the mid-season finale.  {Sarcasm fully intended}  To me, Beth's death was worse than a random death because they tried to affix meaning to it, yet there was none and I blame the writers.  For instance, if Beth had been killed in a crossfire because the exchange went wrong -- a cop (or even Tyrese, and wouldn't that have been interesting) with an itchy trigger finger -- I could have tolerated that better.

 

This is merely my opinion.

Edited December 3, 2014 by JackONeill

[Mu Shu]

A father who had seen various groups go up in flames would recognize his kids had more of a chance in their established group.   Rick's group always fought the bad guys, and the hospital group accepted the bad guys because they were weak/morally ambiguous.    They couldn't be trusted, and really, after escaping cannibals, who would take up with another group so soon? 

 

Shane would have taken that bitch over, Rick is more live and let live.   Don't mess with me and mine, and I'll leave you in peace.   Michonne is the same way-Both characters are the moral center, IMO. 

 

I agree the hospital was just shitty writing.    Sound and fury signifying nothing.   Shit, it wasn't much above a Dario Argento plot, which isn't saying a whole lot. 

[AngelaHunter]

To me, Beth's death was worse than a random death because they tried to affix meaning to it, yet there was none and I blame the writers.  For instance, if Beth had been killed in a crossfire because the exchange went wrong -- a cop (or even Tyrese, and wouldn't that have been interesting) with an itchy trigger finger -- I could have tolerated that better.

 

I agree with you. I can't think of one death we've seen that made less sense than this stupid "stab her in the shoulder just because" nonsensical crap, unless we're to think that Beth actually thought Dawn would immediately die from a superficial wound or that Beth was completely and totally deranged, but we saw no evidence of that.

[Nonlinear]

Why did Michonne and Carl not kill the trapped walkers that were inside the house? They have killed far greater herds of walkers than this. They could still have used the church.

 

Did anyone step forward to go with Rick's group? I did not see Noah step forward.

 

I want Eugene to wake up now.

[Pete Martell]

Noah went with them.

[editorgrrl]

Did anyone step forward to go with Rick's group? I did not see Noah step forward.

 

The scene cut to Daryl carrying Beth out the front door. So it's entirely possible that one or more of the Brady bunch stepped forward. (A way less gripping cliffhanger than "Is Judith dead?")

[Pete Martell]

To me, at least, the invitation to stay seemed sincere. I think the doctor and other hospital survivors genuinely wanted things to change and they took the opportunity of Dawn's death to invite Rick and his group inside. My thinking is that with such a large group of well armed and tough people joining them the culture of the hospital would have to change. The caste system they had set up wouldn't be able to continue, especially since so many of the cops had been killed in the storyline up to that point. From the perspective of the viewer, being based at the hospital may have been a bit boring but it's difficult to believe a father would turn down the relative safety of the hospital for his children.

 

I guess to me it's not all that safe, between the armed cops, the elevator shaft, etc. I think Rick just didn't want to take the risk. 

[Iguessnot]

Noah was behind Daryl when they came out of the hospital. However since people would naturally focus on Daryl carrying Beth, it was easy to overlook Noah.

[Nonlinear]

oh, thanks.

 

I might have missed this as well but where did people see Morgan this episode?

[editorgrrl]

I might have missed this as well but where did people see Morgan this episode?

 

At the very end of the episode. (A "Coda" coda, if you will.)

 

Edited to add that Morgan has a thread now (thanks to RedheadZombie).

Edited December 3, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Nonlinear]

I see the video but I am unable to view it. Thank you though.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Nonlinear

[Bruinsfan]

What interests me about that scene is that all of the walkers were clearly adults. Wouldn't you expect to see a bunch of little kid walkers come swarming out of a school? *shudder*  Maybe the students were still working quietly at their desks, which is really sad -- if you can't get out of doing schoolwork in a zombie apocalypse, can you ever? (Yes, I know...the civil authorities might have been using the school as a temporary shelter in the immediate aftermath of all hell breaking loose, but still...where were the little kids?)

My assumption is that small children are rarely seen because they're largely unable to defend themselves, and so mostly get eaten rather than turning. Probably not that many die in a way that leaves a relatively intact corpse to reanimate like Sophia.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Bruinsfan

[editorgrrl]

From page 11 of this thread:

Here's the order of Morgan's actions:

• He lays the items on the altar.
• He prays. There's a brief cut before the prayer shot, so we don't know how long he was actually praying.
• He looks up toward the ceiling (or God?).
• He look back over his shoulder at the dead walkers and/or the open entrance of the church.
• He smiles and laughs.
• He stands at the altar, continuing to smile and look upward.
• He steps away from the altar and finds the map.

 

The items Morgan places on the altar are a lucky rabbit's foot, a Goo Goo Cluster, and a bullet.

 

In my opinion, Morgan was looking up at the Bible verse over the archway: "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life."

 

The map is the one on which Abraham oh-so-helpfully wrote "Rick Grimes." (Morgan met Carl and Michonne in "Clear." The map tells him Rick knows a contrite asshole en route to Washington.)

 

Edited to add that there's further in-depth analysis (including the significance of the bullet) in the Morgan thread.

Edited December 3, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Nonlinear]

Thank you.

[blackwing]

I want Eugene to wake up now.

I think he was awake?  I thought I saw him on the firetruck that Abraham drove up to the church doors.

[90PercentGravity]

So, wouldn't the elevator shaft of the damned absolutely reek? How is Beth just sitting there not passing out from the toxic stench of the human compost pile?

[Pete Martell]

I see the video but I am unable to view it. Thank you though.

 

There are other videos of this on Youtube that may not be geo-blocked, if that's what you mean. 

[ghoulina]

Okay, here's my question - if Morgan found this map, is he now going to try to head to Washington? He has no idea that Eugene is a big liar pants.