Mr. Selfridge - General Discussion

[zoey1996]

... that backward fall was horrific, but he bounced-right-back pretty much like the energizer bunny which has been one of my problems -- even if it's an accurate protrayal of Selfridge's overbearingly American personality in all it's positive-thinking can-do glory or Priven's "interpretation" ... it's  one-note. 

I didn't think he bounced-right-back, but rather he withdrew to his home near Bournemouth, at Highcliffe Castle.  When the newspaper story implying that he was stepping back and turning it over to his son was printed, he was determined to be back at the store.  He returned too early and didn't look all that well or comfortable to me.

 

Very sad that he found his mother dead, but in real life, she'd died in 1924.  This portion of his story follows some of the events, but is also highly fictionalized.  

 

I missed this episode, but caught up by streaming from my local PBS station.  I find the story as portrayed quite interesting, but with the amount of time between the last episode and this one, I couldn't quite remember who everyone was or how they fit into the story.  I am looking forward to the rest of the season.

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm getting confused with the episode ordering and titles. The one that was broadcast in the US on 4/3/16 was actually Episode 3. The premiere from the previous week was actually the first two episodes of season/series 4 joined together. Why is this topic headed "S04.E02: Part 2?" If we go by the US broadcasts, it's 4.02 (but not Part 2). If we go by the UK broadcasts, it's 4.03, and there should be a separate topic for 4.02 (AKA US 4.01, Part 2).

I understand that normally we would go by UK airdates similar to Downton Abbey. However, I checked before I created this episode thread and apparently no one had created any threads after the UK airing of season 4. I'm in the US and the only things I can go by are the US airdates (in this case 4/3/16) and the PBS episode titles (in this case "Part 2") listed in my channel guide. Someone did something similar the week before and our S04E01 episode is listed with the US airdate as "Part 1".  I'm sorry you feel this is such an egregious problem, but I don't have a solution.

[zoey1996]

Harry on the show seems to have accepted Gordon's marriage pretty well.

Anyone remember or have a link to the PBS special about the true story of Selfridges?

I remember the Gordon's children saying they had never met their Grandfather. I think they talked about Harry not knowing about their existance? I'd like to find their true story.

Are you referring to the Secrets of Selfridges?  http://www.pbs.org/show/secrets-selfridges/ It's available on Netflix DVD, but doesn't look like it's currently available for Netflix streaming.

[J-Man]

 

I understand that normally we would go by UK airdates similar to Downton Abbey. However, I checked before I created this episode thread and apparently no one had created any threads after the UK airing of season 4. I'm in the US and the only things I can go by are the US airdates (in this case 4/3/16) and the PBS episode titles (in this case "Part 2") listed in my channel guide. Someone did something similar the week before and our S04E01 episode is listed with the US airdate as "Part 1".  I'm sorry you feel this is such an egregious problem, but I don't have a solution.

It's not an egregious problem, it's just confusing. I guess what I don't understand is the convention of using the "Part" numbers, which seem to be irrelevant.

 

Anyway, question about the episode: What was the music that the orchestra was playing in the scene at the end where they were at Jimmy Dillon's place? It is the same music TCM uses in its introduction to many of its movies (usually the non-hosted ones.)

[Brookside]

That caterpillar on Gordon's lip is an abomination. And is his wife being played by a different actress?

[JudyObscure]

No that's Gordon's same wife.  She  has always looked old enough to be his mother, but then Gordon could pass for 17.

[txhorns79]

Well of course none of Selfridges would exist without Gordon's father, but Gordon has spent most of his working life in "the colonies," managing and developing those 15 stores, so even though he wasn't the originator of the brand it's still his work that has made those stores thrive.  If his father is going to feel free to gamble away anything with the Selfridge name on it, Gordon might as well go work somewhere else and quit wasting his time.

 

What I'm saying is that the stores belong to Harry.  Presumably he would be the one who helped finance them, approved Gordon's plans, etc.  If those stores had failed, Harry would be on the hook, not Gordon.  Part of this probably just come from the time jump.  Everything that Gordon has done has occurred off screen, so I'm not particularly invested in his feelings about those stores. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by txhorns79

[Brattinella]

This whole season is proving to be one big depressing event.  I SO loved the earlier seasons, with the finery in the store, the costumes, Selfridge's house, and all the love going on.  Everything now is just becoming unbearable, and, knowing how it really all ends, I don't know if I have the stamina (and heart) to watch it all the way through.

[dcalley]

Wow, Alberta Hunter. My mom listened to her when I was a kid. The actress didn't sound like her to me, but then I think I am most familiar with her late-in-life voice.

[Badger]

I remember Alberta Hunter returned to singing after working as a nurse for many years.

[Auntie Anxiety]

This show would be so much better if Jeremy Piven could actually act.

[Pickles]

Is there not a new thread for last night's episode?

[JudyObscure]

Josie always looks at Mr. Groves with so much love, I have to root for them.  I was hoping they would take one last bath together.

 

Harry spent the money he owed the gangster on a movie for the floozies.  I just can't.

 

Do you think Frank got the gossip columnist pregnant?

[cattykit]

I don't know why Josie keeps going back to Roger, when he's never done anything but kick her in the face.  She has always deserved better, and he is an ass.  With or without a terminal illness.

 

This show has always had so many unlikeable characters in its lead roles, from Harry on down.  Maybe that's why it's difficult to watch and I'm glad it'll be over soon.

[txhorns79]

Harry spent the money he owed the gangster on a movie for the floozies.  I just can't.

 

I was just like: "You all deserve each other."  Harry is the worst, and he's just a depressing person. 

 

And poor Kitty.  You could see the moment her heart broke when her husband suggested they have kids. 

[Brattinella]

This show just makes me unhappy now.

[dcalley]

Try youtube.

[Brookside]

The Dolly sisters are insufferable. I can neither watch them nor listen to them.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Brookside

[Blackie]

Dolly sisters...yawn.  Actually most everything in this show is boring, I only like Kitty and Lady Mae.

 

The actress who plays Kitty was amazing in this episode.

 

I just watched two episodes back to back:  the hat Jose wore in Pat 2 was atrocious but I love the hat she wore in this episode

[Brattinella]

I still love Lady Mae and Kitty and Miss Mardle.  They try to get SOME good out of life, anyhow!

 

Dolly SIsters, go away!

[rollacoaster]

Is no one watching this show? Even in hate? 

[AZChristian]

I usually do, but we were in an airplane on Sunday night, so I won't be able to watch until I get home.  I've loved it, but am sad to see it showing the story line following a lot of the truth.

[Brattinella]

I'm just thinking of Harry, and his delusional magical thinking that ended up destroying him.  He really has no one to blame but himself.  The Dolly Sisters certainly helped unload a huge chunk of his fortune, but he could have walked away from them (and the gambling, etc) at any time and saved himself.  Such a tragedy.

[txhorns79]

I felt like Kitty, Lady Mae and Miss Mardle should open up their own Lady Power Department Store, and they can take on the system while still being competent and awesome. 

 

I do feel badly for Harry, if only because I think he's going to end up destroying his family on whatever downward spiral he is on, and they don't really deserve that.  Otherwise, I don't sympathize with him.  His poor decisions are his own. 

[Brattinella]

I think Harry was extremely lucky that Luca Brasi only decided to smash his windows.  Could have been a lot worse.

[txhorns79]

I think Harry was extremely lucky that Luca Brasi only decided to smash his windows.  Could have been a lot worse.

 

I agree.  I thought Harry was going to get violently attacked, or his family was going to be harmed.

[marceline]

Goodness, what turgid melodrama this show has become.

 

Josie and Grove getting shoved together by his kids.

 

Kitty and Frank were like something straight out of of a telanovela.

 

Selfridge is basically JR Ewing.

[zoey1996]

Quote

Lights, camera, action! As the Dolly sisters film their big break in Selfridge’s, the reality of Harry’s lavish living comes crashing down. Will Harry be able to keep the store he loves out of the crossfire? Meanwhile, as Kitty and Frank have their reckoning, Grove and Mardle face their future.

 

It's so sad to see the Selfridge we knew - brash, bold, big ideas and big changes - come to this, a man driven to take big risks and spend lavishly, which we know will eventually lead to his downfall.

 

Loved seeing Miss Mardle, but why does she take up with Grove again?  It's hard to see their relationship as one of love, considering how badly Grove treated he over the years.

 

Poor Kitty - her realization that Mr. Edwards cheated on her whilst he was in France was heartbreaking.  He's acting like such a tool!

 

The noisy parties are too much for me!  After the show is over, I am happy to turn off the TV and hear...nothing!  

 

I'm sticking to this show until the bitter end, but some parts are just difficult to watch.  Still like Mae, and Mr. Crabb, and as mentioned above, Miss Mardle.

[Jolie]

I've always just watched Mr Selfridge because it was Masterpiece Theater but it's never been one of my favorites. Now I'm just ready for the show to be over, and by the number of postings here, I'm not the only one. :)

 

I know Mr Grove treated Miss Mardle very badly, but I couldn't help but feel happy for them. Mr Grove is lucky to have someone to whom he can entrust his children. 

 

Harry is such a fool, I almost can't feel sorry he's going to lose everything.

[SusanSunflower]

I was dismayed to find that we have another month of Selfridge ... the story feels doomed, as if "the end is near" ... horrible to watch Harry squander money -- not just for the optics of affluence for investors and the public -- but defiantly or in as a function of a gambler's deep denial 

 

Horrible to see Harry squander money witnessed by those to whom he owes a fortune and to Harry's "friends" who cannot help but sense a change in the wind ... "Who is that horrible man? What is he doing here?"   So many of Harry's "friends" look suspiciously (probably unfairly) parasitic ...  

 

Is Selfridge likeable? loveable? to whom and why?  So far the story I'm feeling less rather than more sympathy for him.

[txhorns79]

I know Mr Grove treated Miss Mardle very badly, but I couldn't help but feel happy for them. Mr Grove is lucky to have someone to whom he can entrust his children.

 

Seriously.  Those kids are going to need some good therapy, given first their mom got run over, and now their dad is dying.  Obviously, it isn't how she wanted it, but I do think it's great that Josie finally got the family she wanted.  I remember in the earlier seasons, she mentioned a few times about how she gave her child bearing years to Grove.   

 

 

It's so sad to see the Selfridge we knew - brash, bold, big ideas and big changes - come to this, a man driven to take big risks and spend lavishly, which we know will eventually lead to his downfall.

 

In fairness, I think he was always a big risk taker with poor spending habits.  It's just caught up to him now because he's totally out of control.  I know the real Selfridge essentially ends up a pauper, so I guess they are trying to follow the history.    

[JudyObscure]

I still like all of the original characters. It's the newer ones like Kitty's sister, and Merle that I can't warm up to. merle seems to swing from nasty to sweet from one scene to the next.

Mr. Selfridge took crazy risks from the very first. I remember him, in the first season, doing something very reckless and telling poor Mr. Crabb that he wasn't worried, that worrying was Mr. Crabb's job. Harry always lived on the edge and loved it. Up until now, Harry's huge personality, his self-confidence, his brilliant business instincts and his generous love for the people around him have all worked in his favor.

Now times have changed, the fabulous results of wild speculators like Harry have given way to a plummeting stock market. Harry can't see that he should have reigned in his finances years ago and to top it off his greatest weakness is getting to be a real sickness. He was fooling around with showgirls right in front of Rose. Last season he was taken in by the con artist. He has always been a fool for a floozie's obvious charms and now that he's old and lonely he has no resistance at all.

To some degree all the characters are facing the faults we saw in the first season. Lady Mae is treating her knew young man a little bit like she treated Victor in the first season. Mr. Groves dropped Josie because he wanted children and now, though he loves them, they are a great worry to him and she, in her generosity, is going to become a mother to the children who meant more to him than she did. Victor went against his own principles and has lived in a certain amount of fear ever since. Kitty may be the only one to come out of all this happy. I think she loves her work more than Frank but hasn't wanted to admit it, now she has an excuse to go to New York.

Even though I like them all I'm kind of enjoying watching the final train wreck.

[dcalley]

Quote

 

Harry comes to a financial crossroads when his private shame threatens his family. But after a lifetime of gambling, will he find anyone willing to bet on him? Meanwhile, Mae prepares to debut her new seasonal collection, and Miss Mardle embarks on a new chapter in her life.

Preview video

[Quilt Fairy]

Wow, RIP Victor. Didn't see that coming.

[Pickles]

I didn't either! That was pretty shocking.

Will Kitty AND Frank be moving to NYC? I like her.

[SailorGirl]

Josie looked absolutely stunning and so happy in her wedding dress. I just wish she had found someone other than Mr. Grove. She just couldn't quit him. I half expected him to collapse at the altar, thus denying her once again. When he said he didn't deserve her, all I could think was, "boy is that an understatement."

 

Same with Kitty -- Frank always underestimated her. I have a feeling he's going to follow her to New York and finally once and for all give her the respect she deserves. She has been one of the most pleasantly surprising character developments of the entire show, as has Mae. Kitty really came into her own from the snippy snarky shopgirl was saw in season 1, jealous of Agnes Towler, and really found her niche in cosmetics. 

 

Poor Victor -- finally when he was realizing there was more to life and exploring the possibility of some happiness with Mae -- that was definitely a shocker that I did not see coming. 

And the ever faithful, ever loyal, ever steadfast Mr. Crabbe. . . I truly adore so many of these characters. I do hope we get a final visit from Agnes and Henri at some point. I don't know how they might work them in, but they would be wonderful to see one more time. . . 

Edited April 25, 2016 by SailorGirl

[Cramps]

Kitty's growth showed character development. The dramatic changes in Mae just are an example of bad writing. Her character drives me nuts. She was an evil villain the first season, with very mannered speech, who somewhat manipulated Victor (and every one else around her). Now she's a good person, speaks differently, and she and Victor say they could have been in love back then? How convenient for the plot, but what awful writing.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Cramps

[JudyObscure]

She was an evil villain the first season, with very mannered speech, who somewhat manipulated Victor (and every one else around her).

I agree and her early treatment of Victor was almost sex-offender level, insisting on having a much younger Victor as her plaything while he knew he would be fired if he didn't comply. Ugh. I liked Victor so much right from the first he was Agnes's prefect friend, with the same poor background and drive to succeed. I hoped she would choose him instead of Henri who had treated her so casually in the beginning.

Gordon made me cry with his, "All I ever wanted was to work by your side." We could see that when he was a little boy who wanted to follow his father to the store.

I've always liked Josie and Roger together. What she told him about her heart leaping when he walked into a room was always evident to me, thanks to her wonderful acting and his chemistry with her. My heart broke for her when he married the young girl so that he could have children, but even then, I sort of understood the fear of dying without children that he had after his wife died. He knew he was hurting Josie and denying himself the woman he truly loved, but he just couldn't ignore that dread of his own mortality. I'm glad Josie got what she always wanted and that he will have her support now that that mortality has come for real. Great writing with their story.

Oh Mr. Selfridge. I thought this said it all:

Mr. Selfridge to the gangster boss: (paraphrasing)" My wife and my grandchild were terrified, how could anyone do such a thing?

Gangster boss: "How indeed?"

Perfect way to tell Selfridge that, that was exactly what he had done by gambling away their security.

[SailorGirl]

Kitty's growth showed character development. The dramatic changes in Mae just are an example of bad writing. Her character drives me nuts. She was an evil villain the first season, with very mannered speech, who somewhat manipulated Victor (and every one else around her). Now she's a good person, speaks differently, and she and Victor say they could have been in love back then? How convenient for the plot, but what awful writing.

Did you watch the interview they ran right after the episode with the actress who played Mae? She talked specifically about her character and how she had evolved from the first season. She talked about how much of the way her character acted in the previous seasons was a result of her circumstances, the times, and expectations of women. She adapted to survive. By this last season it is how many years later, she is older, she is divorced twice, she's made a bit of name for herself as a fashion designer, and has finally come into her own a bit so she can relax and be more of who "Mae" actually is.

It was a really neat interview and helped me better see -- and understand -- the character development. Based on that interview, I don't agree that it was just bad writing. 

[Quilt Fairy]

My biggest issue with Mae is that - like Harry and Kitty and the rest of them - she apparently has not aged at all. The most they've done to emphasize the 20 years that have gone by since the first season is that the child actors from then have been replaced by adults. It's beyond ridiculous and it totally throws me out of the scene. Victor was much younger than Lady Mae in the first season, now they appear to be the same age.  Victor, as it happens, was one of the only characters that actually looks older than he did in the first season. He's put on weight and his hair is starting to go gray. But I have to wonder if that's due to the actor's real life, because I can't see them aging him and no one else.

[rollacoaster]

Well, Quilt Fairy, maybe that's why the Victor character had to be killed off.  He raised too many questions about the rest of the other characters lack of aging.  ;)

Edited April 25, 2016 by rollacoaster

[txhorns79]

My biggest issue with Mae is that - like Harry and Kitty and the rest of them - she apparently has not aged at all. The most they've done to emphasize the 20 years that have gone by since the first season is that the child actors from then have been replaced by adults. It's beyond ridiculous and it totally throws me out of the scene.

 

I agree it's a big weakness of this series.  Decades have passed, but no one looks any older.  Harry looks almost like he could be an older sibling to his children, and Mae should probably be in her 50s or 60s and looks maybe early 40s. 

 

I am glad Grove and Josie's wedding went off without a hitch.  She deserves some real happiness, even if I think she is way too good for him. 

[Quilt Fairy]

I am glad Grove and Josie's wedding went off without a hitch.  She deserves some real happiness, even if I think she is way too good for him. 

I was very impressed with Josie's wedding dress. I always think of that 20s flapper look as very costumey and inappropriate unless you're a sweet young thing, but that was both truly 20's and a lovely, classy wedding outfit. (And it's cream instead of white, so she can wear it again!)

Edited April 26, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[photo fox]

Quote

Harry determines to get his life and the store back on track, and returns to what Selfridge's does best - a classic, store-wide summer promotion. However, he still has to contend with the disruptive antics of Lord Wynnstay, while a guilt-ridden Jimmy hides behind a daring new business proposition. Despite her grief and shock, Mae's new ready-to-wear summer collection proves a runaway success as Kitty's time at Selfridge's comes to a poignant end. Drama, starring Jeremy Piven, Sacha Dhawan and Katherine Kelly.

[photo fox]

Quote

Harry, Gordon and Jimmy publicly announce the purchase of Whiteley's, claiming it to be an exciting project that will cement the future of the Selfridge legacy. However, while later helping out Crabb with the Whiteley's accounts, Harry makes a worrying discovery. Grove is forced to admit it's time to retire, while Meryl makes a stand to her father in order to get Tilly reinstated. Jimmy starts to arouse suspicions when questioned about Victor, and a sudden tragedy sends shockwaves through the store.

[photo fox]

Quote

As preparations are made to celebrate the store's 20th anniversary, Harry works tirelessly to break the suppliers' embargo on Whiteley's, while Mae manages in avoiding him. A stoic Mardle struggles to cope, and Meryl steps in to provide some much-needed help. Jimmy's accountant reveals a massive problem, which leads to a very risky and secret plan, while journalist Joe Tooby continues to investigate him - with shocking results.

[photo fox]

Quote

Harry's judgement, Whiteley's and even Lady Mae's love life are now all under the spotlight of a tabloid frenzy. Jimmy's final act has Harry reeling and the retail mogul retreats from the publicity for the sanctuary of home. Mae, now at the end of her tether, contemplates her future in London. The threat of a trade embargo imposed by Hardcastle sees acting boss Gordon backed into a corner, and Harry called to account.

[Brattinella]

Was there an equivalent to Victor Colleano who was killed (in real life)?

[LittleIggy]

On April 25, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

My biggest issue with Mae is that - like Harry and Kitty and the rest of them - she apparently has not aged at all. The most they've done to emphasize the 20 years that have gone by since the first season is that the child actors from then have been replaced by adults. It's beyond ridiculous and it totally throws me out of the scene. Victor was much younger than Lady Mae in the first season, now they appear to be the same age.  Victor, as it happens, was one of the only characters that actually looks older than he did in the first season. He's put on weight and his hair is starting to go gray. But I have to wonder if that's due to the actor's real life, because I can't see them aging him and no one else.

I remember that "Upstairs, Downstairs" lo those many years ago had the same problem.

[dcalley]

Ugh, there's still three episodes to get through. I am ready for this to end.

I wonder if Mrs. Grove/Ms. Mardle will take over for her husband. Whatever bad thing happened to Tilly at her former job, she probably would have been more willing to tell Ms. Mardle about it.

Kitty seemingly forgave Frank for everything once he was interested in coming with her (but only after he asked one last time for her to stay).