The Fall - General Discussion

[orza]

I think it had to so with when the nurse told Paul about what the other patient had done he called him the dregs of humanity. Paul recognized he and the guy were alike (incurable monsters) and facing the same bleak future in lockup so he took the guy with him when he killed himself.

[iggysaurus]

I agree with orza. I think he felt both pity and contempt for the other inmate and thought they'd both be better off dead.

I wouldn't mind another season of this show with Stella investigating a different case.  I know some find her (or Gillian Anderson's acting) to be one-note and annoying, but I find her compelling and would gladly watch her investigating another killer.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

2 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

So why didn't Paul just go to his own room after getting the belt from the doctor? No interruptions then. He didn't accidently go into that other patient's room.

There would be an interruption then, because they would be looking for him.  If he's locked in with the guy causing a scene, he's got more time.  He knows they are going to lock him up and leave him there to calm down.  Then he's got time to kill him and himself while staff is busy quieting everyone else and making sure everyone is accounted for.

I guess I don't see any evidence that Paul cares one way another about other people besides his daughter.  He uses them to his advantage at times and that's the closest he gets to anyone.  He's a narcissist like the doctor diagnosed him as.

Edited November 1, 2016 by DoubleUTeeEff
thinking more about it

[John Potts]

I agree - I think Spector wanted to die on his own terms, not caged indefinitely. Getting his "buddy" locked into his room and then killing him allowed him the time by himself to commit suicide - I don't think he had any particular grudge against his buddy that "required" him to die.

[WearyTraveler]

Here's why Specter committed suicide: he wanted to win.

He has been playing a game with Stella and his aim was to walk away scot free.  When he told her about hearing a voice saying "we can't lose him", he wanted to play her.  He thought that she was as involved in the game as he was.  But her response influenced his later actions.  She told him that she wanted him to live so that he would pay for his crimes and that a quick death was not punishment enough.

Once Spector saw that they had him on a crime that happened before the alleged memory loss, he realised that he lost the game for freedom. And even if he stayed in the care facility by wining the case with an insanity defense, Stella would still win, because what she wanted was for him to lose his freedom.  A regular prison or a medical facility makes no difference.  He is still locked up.

So, the only way Spector could win his game with Stella was denying her what she wanted: a long, drawn out punishment for him.  Paul was so intent on beating her, that he was willing to lose his life, just to win the game.  And the reason Stella does not appear to get any joy/satisfaction from the news of Spector's demise, is that she realises this.

He beat her up because he knew then that the only way for him to win, was to off himself.

[zxy556575]

The Telegraph's recap of the finale included this:

"Spector was confirmed to be genuinely suffering amnesia and thus unable to recall the Belfast Strangler killings (though he had started to remember being shot and Gibson’s cry that the police were 'losing him')."

I gotta say, that was not my takeaway at all. Did you guys think his amnesia was real? The Telegraph speculated that Spector being made aware that he was a killer was what spurred his suicide, basically out of shame and regret.

[meisje]

Quote

The Telegraph's recap of the finale included this:

"Spector was confirmed to be genuinely suffering amnesia and thus unable to recall the Belfast Strangler killings (though he had started to remember being shot and Gibson’s cry that the police were 'losing him')."

I gotta say, that was not my takeaway at all. Did you guys think his amnesia was real? The Telegraph speculated that Spector being made aware that he was a killer was what spurred his suicide, basically out of shame and regret.

I'm very impressed with the various theories being floated in this thread. As I've read one and thought "hmmm... that's very interesting," then another is posted that is equally compelling and so on. I've wondered if the writers had as clear a motivation in mind as people here have managed to splice together? But no, The Telegraph's opinion isn't my takeaway either. Are they generally a reliable source with recaps? Do they do any interviews or coverage with writers or showrunners? I really have no idea. Their synopsis sounds more like someone watched most of it on FF, missed a lot of scenes and dialogue, and then rushed to turn the piece in (i.e., blew off their homework). It's like one of those Netflix-gone-wrong spoilers/totally-incorrect episode descriptions that sometimes happen. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by meisje

[dubbel zout]

I don't agree with the Telegraph at all. It's likely Spector had some amnesia right after surgery, but I think he saw how useful it would be and kept it up.

8 hours ago, lordonia said:

The Telegraph speculated that Spector being made aware that he was a killer was what spurred his suicide, basically out of shame and regret.

I don't agree with this, either. I think he killed himself because he wasn't going to let Stella Gibson put him away.

I'm genuinely astounded that Spector could waltz back into the clinic with no additional security measures taken after severely beating up two police officers.

[zxy556575]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm genuinely astounded that Spector could waltz back into the clinic with no additional security measures taken after severely beating up two police officers.

If I was a police officer or in any way associated with the penal system in the U.K., I'd be pretty pissed at the slapdash way they've been depicted here.

I didn't watch the X-Files and had no feelings about Anderson one way or the other, but after this I think I'll avoid anything she's in. Ambien washed down with whiskey is right.

Edited November 3, 2016 by lordonia

[millennium]

I love Gillian Anderson.  She can do no wrong.

Oddly, I am finding Stella Gibson more Scully-like than Scully herself in the X-Files revival last winter.   She wears her weariness beautifully.   I guess I'm in no position to critique this episode because really, I could watch an entire episode of Stella Gibson grocery shopping and come away satisfied.   As for her accent, Anderson was raised in Great Britain, so I'm not sure it's as inauthentic as some think.

I agree Stella has poor taste in men -- so bring back Archie Panjabi already!

Very happy not to have to slog through all the Jamie Dornan drool that characterized these threads last time around.

Seeing Officer Merlin only reminded me how disappointingly that series ended.

[millennium]

On 10/13/2016 at 3:40 AM, SparedTurkey said:

 

And I am done with the nurse. I don't want to be watching her heart-eyes at Spector for the next 3 episodes.

Apparently Spector has the kavorka.   Stella, the Benedetto chick,nurses, legal assistants ... probably women two floors down are feeling horny and they don't understand why.

Such a cliche.

[Margherita Erdman]

On 10/31/2016 at 6:06 PM, Ravenya003 said:

So after an entire season of Stella pointing out that she couldn't let Spector die because it would let him escape justice and rob the victims of closure, Alan Cubitt decides to end his show with... Spector escaping justice and robbing the victims of closure. Round of applause for that creative decision. 

That was my initial reaction too, when I saw that Spector was well and truly going to succeed at suicide: super-frustrated with the storytelling and feeling like the whole season was for nought. However —

On 11/1/2016 at 6:43 PM, WearyTraveler said:

Here's why Specter committed suicide: he wanted to win.

He has been playing a game with Stella and his aim was to walk away scot free.  When he told her about hearing a voice saying "we can't lose him", he wanted to play her.  He thought that she was as involved in the game as he was.  But her response influenced his later actions.  She told him that she wanted him to live so that he would pay for his crimes and that a quick death was not punishment enough.

Once Spector saw that they had him on a crime that happened before the alleged memory loss, he realised that he lost the game for freedom. And even if he stayed in the care facility by wining the case with an insanity defense, Stella would still win, because what she wanted was for him to lose his freedom.  A regular prison or a medical facility makes no difference.  He is still locked up.

So, the only way Spector could win his game with Stella was denying her what she wanted: a long, drawn out punishment for him.  Paul was so intent on beating her, that he was willing to lose his life, just to win the game.  And the reason Stella does not appear to get any joy/satisfaction from the news of Spector's demise, is that she realises this.

^ @WearyTraveler sums up the realization I had when Stella Gibson confronts Spector's corpse on the floor of the Foyle Clinic, and the pieces slid into place for me and suddenly the entire series felt like a story well told. Stella got smug and showed her hand to Spector when she told him why she said "we're losing him," and he deprived her of the justice she craved. She sees what he did, and she sees her part in it, as she has seen her part in everything else that has happened as the case has unraveled. IMO it's a credit to GA's acting and the staging of that scene that so much is communicated without words.

On 11/1/2016 at 11:14 PM, lordonia said:

The Telegraph's recap of the finale included this:

"Spector was confirmed to be genuinely suffering amnesia and thus unable to recall the Belfast Strangler killings (though he had started to remember being shot and Gibson’s cry that the police were 'losing him')."

I gotta say, that was not my takeaway at all. Did you guys think his amnesia was real? The Telegraph speculated that Spector being made aware that he was a killer was what spurred his suicide, basically out of shame and regret.

I think there are many nuances and ambiguities allowing for interpretation in the denouement of this story, but the Telegraph's recap as you describe it is just way, waaay off in the broad strokes. The neuropsychologist specifically requested that Dr. Larson concur with her that Spector was malingering with regard to the amnesia, and everything we were shown or told about Spector indicated he was incapable of feeling guilt or shame or any kind of regret at all for his crimes or for the impact that his behavior had on those around him, like his wife and children.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Margherita Erdman
typo; hit submit accidentally!

[pasdetrois]

Anderson and Dornan drove me crazy with their rigid performances. Somewhere on PTV there's a great phrase that comes to mind: Angry Whispering. I think for Paul Giametti's performance on Billions? Anyway, it always made me laugh to read it, and I kept thinking Sleepy Whispering, or Boring Whispering, whenever GA opened her mouth. Dornan was mostly a blank stare. And I was distracted by GA's lousy dye job. Oh, and what good was Mopey Burns?

I'm cranky when British crime procedurals disappoint me, because I so look forward to them. But I'm glad I watched because I was introduced to two good actors whom I'll watch for: Krister Henriksson (the psychiatrist) and especially Richard Coyle (the ER doc).

[orza]

14 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

And I was distracted by GA's lousy dye job.

Yes, the hair was bugging me the whole time. We saw that Stella has good taste. Her home was beautiful and her wardrobe was great, but OMG the brassy drug store do-it-yourself dye job. Was the investigation really so time-consuming that she couldn't make an appointment at a salon and take some files or her laptop with her to work on while she was getting her hair done? Busy working women do it all the time.

[SparedTurkey]

Stella is not in that list

[meisje]

Quote

Yes, the hair was bugging me the whole time. We saw that Stella has good taste. Her home was beautiful and her wardrobe was great, but OMG the brassy drug store do-it-yourself dye job. Was the investigation really so time-consuming that she couldn't make an appointment at a salon and take some files or her laptop with her to work on while she was getting her hair done? Busy working women do it all the time.

Stella's hair bothered me as well, but mostly because she managed to maintain the exact same part and amount and quality of curls day-to-day, all day/night at work, and even after she was beaten into a husk and landed at the hospital. While her face was split open and weeping, not a curl was fully deconstructed.

However, (and I'm outing myself as a hair geek, so forgive me) I noticed she had about 2-3x more hair that Gillian Anderson has had as Stella previously, and in other roles, so it was clear that she had extensions, clip-ins, or other various extra hair right away. Unfortunately this trend is everywhere, and they love it for "ageing" actresses because it can make them appear more youthful.

My guess on the hair color is that, generally speaking, when there is a bunch of purchased "blonde" hair involved (which is Asian hair 98% of the time, & bleached from its natural black, and cannot physically be lightened beyond yellow), the actor's hair has to match that not-quite-natural-for-European-hair color as well, and is toned more yellow. For anyone who's ever wondered, IRL, at very wealthy blondes and why their hair often looks like straw and/or a strangely un-toned yellow, it's because purchased hair is a coarser, much-darker product that is processed with the most extreme bleach and ammonia, is extremely damaged, and can never appear a neutral hue because of starting from such a natural, dark shade. Apologies if anyone has nodded off...!

Edited November 4, 2016 by meisje

[millennium]

52 minutes ago, SparedTurkey said:

Stella is not in that list

I don't like to think so, but something's going on there.

[zxy556575]

Stella was definitely fixated on Spector, sexually or not. I wouldn't imagine she's consumed by every suspect the same way. I think she saw him as her own dark side doppelganger.

[pasdetrois]

I'll bore everyone further (sorry all) by adding that I felt Stella's shade of blonde was all wrong for her skin tone. In certain lights these things jump out at me - brassy blonde against cool skin tones, which wouldn't happen in nature. Another place I notice this clash is in the red hair on Poldark's Demelza. At least production keeps up with Demelza's roots.

[Margherita Erdman]

9 hours ago, lordonia said:

I think she saw him as her own dark side doppelganger.

I saw Stella, and saw her perceiving her own "clear purpose," as Rose enviously put it, as a protector and mentor of women, a role Stella saw herself as uniquely suited to fill in the male-dominated police force and a still-patriarchal society in which women and girls are especially vulnerable.

My read of Stella's relationship to Spector throughout the series is not as her subterranean psychological shadow self or secret desire but more simply the personification of everything she fights against in her professional and personal life (since there is little distinction between the two). As an incredibly violent sexual predator with no conscience, he is her perfect nemesis.

[Karlophe]

On 10/31/2016 at 4:11 PM, iggysaurus said:

Are they going to make next season the trial?

As I understand it, episode six is to be the series finale until further notice (though it sounds unlikely). It's a shame...I understand not dragging things out, but even not having seen the finale I'd be more than amenable to another season. I hope they make the final episode count.

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

as a protector and mentor of women, a role Stella saw herself as uniquely suited to fill in the male-dominated police force and a still-patriarchal society in which women and girls are especially vulnerable.

This. Stella may have been obsessed with catching Spector but considering he was a serial killer, so yeah that's okay. But it wasn't sexual - and much of the reason this series wasn't quite as good was the continual suggestion from the show it was. Last season, when the thought was put to her, she dismissed it pretty clearly.

Quote

I don't like to think so, but something's going on there.

Sure, but it's not sexual. Or love. Or puppy dog eyes. It's a female detective who went after, and caught, a murderous psychopath who hated women. This isn't a romantic comedy.

[Chaos Theory]

Only thing missing at the end was what happens to Sally-Anne otherwise great ending to an awesome series.

i don't think it actually matters if Specter was faking or not. Although  I think the truth was coming back and by the time he had the interview with Stella it mostly had.  By that point he was mostly the man he once had been or was at the point of being that man again.

i liked Katie's storyline.  I thought she was some of the snowball effect of what someone like Specter creates.  is she past the point of no return?  I don't think so.  I think Stell is right she need to find something real to fight for.

Great season.  Great series.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[nyxy]

Wow, I totally agree the theories on this thread are great.

And I don't get where The Telegraph is coming from.

I ended up going back to Season One and now I'm binge-watching from the beginning.
So many questions as I do that. I'll probably post up a storm soon. But for right now I just had a few thoughts about Season Three.

-I did wonder if he killed that other patient at Wallander's, his big admirer, because he learned that the guy had raped his sister when she was 12 and then managed to have her killed in the most horrific brutal way. I think Paul genuinely believes he is protective of children  (never mind the way he uses them to get closer to his targets, the position he puts them in by destroying their worlds and so on).  So maybe that other inmate's appalling behavior towards a child is the reason Paul makes the guy pay. He totally suspends his version of Nietzschean philosophy when it come to children and becomes boring and moral like the rest of us. 

-I really loved that anonymous poem he read to the guy and then wrote out in that diary: "There was a man of double deed." It's wonderful and I'd never heard it before. And the show does end with "death, and death, and death indeed."

-I feel terrible for poor Sally Ann. The police did terrible damage to her, just as Stella said (although Stella herself didn't do all that much to protect her). I would have liked some wrap of the Sally Ann story.  I also wanted more on Spector's reaction to hearing what Sally Ann did with the van at the beach. And the miscarriage.

Sally will probably be dragged through the court system and she'll lose custody. It's so sad- she loses everything, and unlike Spector, she probably will live for years with the pain. She might be his biggest victim--maybe another way of saying she is one of the biggest victims of that foster home, without having set a foot in that place.

Edited November 6, 2016 by nyxy

[Mom x 3]

On February 26, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Missbusy2000 said:

I feel like there were a few hints earlier in the series as well, when Olivia says she wants to marry her father out of the blue. Kind of an odd thing for a child to say. 

Yea, what mledawn said.  My 4yo son wants to marry me at least twice a month, or whenever he gets tired of being married to his stuffed frog.

[Amerilla]

15 hours ago, nyxy said:

-I really loved that anonymous poem he read to the guy and then wrote out in that diary: "There was a man of double deed." It's wonderful and I'd never heard it before. And the show does end with "death, and death, and death indeed."

 

1

"The Man of Double Deed" was perfect on so many levels. Perhaps coincidentally, but probably not, it's sung to an older Northern Irish tune called "Sally-O, Sally-O" so there may have been a hidden nod to Sally Ann. 

It didn't occur to me until this morning that what went on with the inmate (sorry, I can't recall his name) was a transaction: do this for me and I'll end your suffering. 

On 11/4/2016 at 4:41 AM, meisje said:

Yes, the hair was bugging me the whole time. We saw that Stella has good taste. Her home was beautiful and her wardrobe was great, but OMG the brassy drug store do-it-yourself dye job.

 

 

I think that's a hugely deliberate choice in the way the conflict between Stella and Spector was framed. Spector had a "type," and that type was women with long, dark hair. So his chief (female) adversary is a very obvious brunette (that's why they left the roots exposed) with a blonde dye job. We can't really say (I don't think) that Stella was blonde before taking this case. Reading the case file, did she make the choice to dye it just before going to Belfast? I think you could make that argument. In S1, she does a press conference with her usually-neutral nails painted bright red, as Spector does to a victim. She knows how to communicate with him via her appearance., and she knows what gets under his skin.

Especially in this last set, the women most in his way were blondes or had lighter hair: Stella, Danielle, the judge, the consultant who argued in the final episode that he was faking amnesia. Sally Ann and Oliva, who long functioned as something of a brake on his darker impulses, both have light hair. The women in this final series who tended to care about or sympathize (to varying degrees) with Spector - Kira, Katie, Wallace the solicitor - were all dark-haired.   

 

On 11/5/2016 at 10:47 AM, Chaos Theory said:

i liked Katie's storyline.  I thought she was some of the snowball effect of what someone like Specter creates.  is she past the point of no return?  I don't think so.  I think Stell is right she need to find something real to fight for.

 

 

I liked her storyline, too. Her infatuation with Paul was a form of self-harm, no different than cutting herself. To have Stella step in and say "look, I've been there, I know what you're going through, and I can tell you that you have a choice," is a message that Katie was, in that moment, receptive to. That made total sense to me in terms of the moment - like Spector, she's locked up, hemmed in, surrounded by people unimpressed by her bullshit. Faced with limited options, she's at least able to let Stella in. 

I don't think she's past the point of no return either, and I would say the same thing about Sally Ann and Olivia. There's a chance that, through Paul's death, they can free themselves from their downward spiral. It's actually little Liam Spector that I'd worry most about. How does he cope with all of this over the rest of his life?

On 11/5/2016 at 10:47 AM, Chaos Theory said:

i don't think it actually matters if Specter was faking or not. Although  I think the truth was coming back and by the time he had the interview with Stella it mostly had.  By that point he was mostly the man he once had been or was at the point of being that man again.

 

 

I agree with you on that as well. With or without his memories, he was still the man he had been. For example: whether he remembered his previous exchanges with Stella or not, he sensed the mutual contempt they had for one another.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Amerilla
Clarifying a tricky though

[spaceghostess]

On 10/20/2016 at 6:04 PM, John Potts said:

But if that facility is meat to be secure, how come anyone can just stroll into Spector's room? They do remember the guy is under arrest for multiple counts of murder, right?

So much THIS. Plus, Spector was allowed to walk the halls to visit/"meet" his son with no escort except his smitten nurse and that other doctor. I love this show and really like Anderson's and Dornan's performances, but Spector's being able to stroll around the hospital--even for just a few minutes--with no cops in sight begged even my rather generous willing suspension of disbelief.

[BetyBee]

I only could make it about halfway through episode 2.  This is so boring!  I'm out.  

[pamplemousse]

On 11/2/2016 at 6:16 PM, millennium said:

As for her accent, Anderson was raised in Great Britain, so I'm not sure it's as inauthentic as some think.

I was raised in England, continue to live there at least 5-6 months out of the year due to work, and I still maintain that her English accent sounds odd and unconvincing. :)

[pamplemousse]

On 11/4/2016 at 3:41 AM, meisje said:

My guess on the hair color is that, generally speaking, when there is a bunch of purchased "blonde" hair involved (which is Asian hair 98% of the time, & bleached from its natural black, and cannot physically be lightened beyond yellow), the actor's hair has to match that not-quite-natural-for-European-hair color as well, and is toned more yellow.

Asian hair can be physically lightened beyond yellow. I've seen many Asians with pale blond or even platinum/nearly white blond hair with no brassiness. It just takes several processes and a judicious use of toner./OT

[mjforty]

We can't really say (I don't think) that Stella was blonde before taking this case. Reading the case file, did she make the choice to dye it just before going to Belfast? I think you could make that argument. In S1, she does a press conference with her usually-neutral nails painted bright red, as Spector does to a victim. She knows how to communicate with him via her appearance., and she knows what gets under his skin.

I don't think the blonde hair was a choice to needle Spector like the red nail polish.  Stella is brought in to review a murder case file that has stalled.  At the time she's brought in, there is no evidence that Alice Munroe's death is the work if a serial killer.  It isn't until Stella makes a connection to another murder and Janet from Outlander is killed (sorry, I forget the character's name, the lawyer who calls the cops before she's murdered) that they realize they have a serial killer on hand and that he has a definite type.  So Stella would have been unaware that someone was stalking and murdering 30-something professional women when she first took the case.

[islandgal140]

On 10/13/2016 at 3:40 AM, SparedTurkey said:

And I am done with the nurse. I don't want to be watching her heart-eyes at Spector for the next 3 episodes.

Yes, yes and yes! She is actually making me mad. I want to pelt her with every bedpan in that hospital and I hope they are metal! Does she ever go off duty?  Oh and she knows that he was crying during surgery? And he remembers his near death experience? So trite and hackneyed. Felt like I knew where this was going as soon as she was introduced and we got all these shots of her bathing him and all her long intense glances. GMAFB! I really hope this is a misdirection because I can't if this turns into a romance and she marries his ass in prison or worse yet he gets off on a technicality.  

So many frustrating and incredibly stupid things going on. I know this isn't taking place in the US but it just makes no sense that there isn't an armed police person posted at his door. That a nurse, especially one fitting his type, is alone with him in the room, with blinds closed sometimes, with Spector unrestrained and able to have these long heartfelt conversations is mind boggling. I was foaming at the mouth when they had his victim in a bed 50 feet away from him. You mean to tell me there are no other rooms or beds available at that hospital?

Tired of Spectors Memento shit! It is like a bad General Hospital storyline arc.  What is funny is that Spector was only really interesting to me the 1st season and fell apart season 2. All these tight shots of Dornan when there is no there there just makes me shake my head.

Gillian Anderson here reminds me of her character on Hannibal. Very lethargic to the point of seeming self-medicated. Actually this entire show kinda is. When Sally Anne was giving the kids doped up hot milk, I thought to myself, she ought to just pop in a dvd of The Fall S3 instead. I hope this season gets better. 

[Ravenya003]

I have to admire the irony that a thread based on a show which consistently highlights the double standards and unfair treatment that professional women have to put up with is spending a lot of time cross-examining the lead actress's hair. 

[Negritude]

Even if he had amnesia, the first murder was in 2011, 5 years after the year he claims to think it is. You weren't some innocent lamb in '06 and then just bust out killing people and washing and drying their bodies and posing them out of the blue. He had this in him for years so go ahead and charge him. I know, I know, law, courts, blah blah blah.

[millennium]

I could watch an entire episode of Stella talking to Dr. Larson about her dreams over the phone.

The whole Alvarez connection baffles me.   What is that about anyway?

[millennium]

All I can add is, everybody back the fuck off Stella, k?

But seriously, I don't care about the plot or the outcome, really.   Like The Killing, I watched this show to bask in the gloomy, hopeless and deliciously bleak atmosphere, and Gillian Anderson carried it off beautifully.   There is nothing about her performance I would change.

Stella doesn't want to save the world, just a few people if she can.   And even that seems impossible most of the time.   It would have been nice if she had ended this long, thankless journey in the arms of Archie Panjabi but it is more believable that she went home to her empty, dimly lit apartment, surrounded by dead flowers. 

[Peanut6711]

On 10/7/2016 at 5:29 AM, John Potts said:

When Stella was being told the investigation was being moved, I was wondering why she was getting so upset - the investigation is over, the police have their man, it's up to the CPS to prosecute*. Yes there will be 10000 forms/reports/case reviews that will have to be submitted (more so given their suspect was shot in custody and somebody died in a police shooting), but the task force has done its job.

Totally agree. Seemed like another instance of Stella coming off as a superior pain in the ass. Frankly, I thought the new office looked nicer--much better views.

On 10/8/2016 at 9:52 AM, NorthstarATL said:

I can't recall when Paul was being asked questions whether he got his dates wrong (Dornan looks great, but NOT 26!), but as soon as he described Olivia rather than giving her current age I knew he was up to something. 

Numerous times since he's been brought into the hospital the staff has established that he's 32. But the accident has caused him to "lose" a few years which is why he thought he was 26. His belief that he was in a car accident rather than shot ties in with his "dream" or delusion at the opening of the first episode where he was in a  wreck with the windshield shattering.  I don't think he's faking at all. I suspect this might be an angle used by the show to delve deeper into how Paul started his serial killing. Recall that even though he had tendencies in college, he didn't start acting on them fully until more recently. Perhaps the accident was real and his mind has just reverted back to it.  Either way, I suspect it will be revealed as this season goes along. 

***Questions I had regarding this episode....

1. Are solicitors expensive in N. Ireland? In the US, a high profile attorney like the one Sally-Ann just hired would be quite pricey.  I was rather surprised that she would have that kind of money and use it to help Paul.  

2. Is it normal there as well that the police would only be on guard outside the ICU unit and not be stationed either in his room or just outside that door. I realize he barely made it through surgery but he is accused of serious, violent crimes.   Incidentally, count me in among those that could have done with less puke, blood, and gore in these first two episode. If I wanted that, I'd watch reruns of ER ;-)

[John Potts]

13 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

1. Are solicitors expensive in N. Ireland? In the US, a high profile attorney like the one Sally-Ann just hired would be quite pricey.  I was rather surprised that she would have that kind of money and use it to help Paul.  

2. Is it normal there as well that the police would only be on guard outside the ICU unit and not be stationed either in his room or just outside that door. I realize he barely made it through surgery but he is accused of serious, violent crimes.

OK, First off I'm not a lawyer, nor am I from Northern Ireland (which has some different laws from England), but as I understand it:

1) while solicitors/barristers can get VERY expensive, the lawyers were offering to do the case on Legal Aid ("pro bono" as they'd say in the US) for the publicity it might generate. Given the intense media interest, it might well be worth it as a loss leader.
2) I'm SURE the restrictions on Spector's movements are ridiculously light - Northern Ireland MUST have experience of people who are suspected criminals needing medical treatment and so such things as "soft restraints" should be available (though terrorist activity is considerably lower than at the height of "the Troubles", it's not zero, and they can be used to constrain patients who are being rowdy, too).

I also find it hard to believe that Sally Ann would be getting treated across the way from Spector, nor that the police officer assigned to watch him wouldn't be a no nonsense burly man (the guy who escorted Spector to  the psychiatric unit, perhaps) rather than a female officer, but that would be the commanding officer's call (maybe Stella thinks that Spector will feel humiliated by being watched over by a woman or something).

[TomServo]

On 11/2/2016 at 7:16 PM, millennium said:

As for her accent, Anderson was raised in Great Britain, so I'm not sure it's as inauthentic as some think.

Anderson lived in north London from the time she was a toddler until the age of 11 and I think after her family moved to Michigan they still spent summers in the U.K.  (there is an old video floating around of her reading poetry or something during her teen punk years and her accent was pretty thick).  As a result, all of her various accents are a bit of a mess, which is not unusual among the third-culture kids in my circle.  I noticed several slips in her Scully accent during the latest X-Files run.

[Peanut6711]

On 11/1/2016 at 5:12 AM, SparedTurkey said:

So, are we to understand from the 'previously' segment of this ep, that Paul killed the other psych patient because that patient had raped and killed his own sister? Because otherwise it seems completely random. And not in Paul's MO. He's never given a shit about kids before thins - aside from Sarah Kay's foetus that is.

In previous seasons it was established that Paul made a distinction w/innocent children (his daughter and his letter when finding out his one victim was pregnant). No doubt when the orderly pointed out that the other patient raped and murdered his 12 year old sister, he all but marked the creep for slaughtering, whether the orderly completely realized that or not. 

On 10/30/2016 at 5:16 PM, ahisma said:

I think when he first woke up, the lack of oxygen and/or trauma really did knock out more recent memories. He remembered Olivia as a two-year old, and I don't think he would have faked that confusion when him forgetting so much of her could have hurt her. And if it was completely deliberate, he could have faked losing two years of memory to get the excuse, no need for six. Amnesia like he had is usually temporary, with the possible exception of right around the trauma. But they told him the charges against him, so keeping on with the missing six years was him gaming the system.

I agree, Paul wasn't initially faking. While those around him established it to be around 6 years that he was missing, Paul was never that specific. He just stated that Olivia was small and the woman interviewing him filled in age 2. I think his memory began returning as this season progressed and more people filled in details of those missing years. 

On 11/2/2016 at 11:10 AM, dubbel zout said:

I'm genuinely astounded that Spector could waltz back into the clinic with no additional security measures taken after severely beating up two police officers.

Yes, the lack of security stood out--at the hospital and at the psychiatric faculty that obviously housed other violent criminals. I also didn't understand why the other patient was simply locked into his room to calm down  Seems they would have subdued/sedated him with some kind of drug. 

On a completely different topic...wow, Stella has a nice house!  What kind of salary would a detective at that level make in that area?

[John Potts]

On ‎23‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:45 PM, Peanut6711 said:

On a completely different topic...wow, Stella has a nice house!  What kind of salary would a detective at that level make in that area?

This actually got me curious... after navigating the almost impenetrable Metropolitan Police website, a police Superintendent could expect a salary around £80k. But given the cost of housing in London (it was meant to be London, I think?) if she HAD a house like that, the only way she could afford it would be if she actually lived 200 miles away (which might explain why she's so used to living out of a suitcase).

[WearyTraveler]

17 hours ago, John Potts said:

This actually got me curious... after navigating the almost impenetrable Metropolitan Police website, a police Superintendent could expect a salary around £80k. But given the cost of housing in London (it was meant to be London, I think?) if she HAD a house like that, the only way she could afford it would be if she actually lived 200 miles away (which might explain why she's so used to living out of a suitcase).

London house prices are definitely high, but she could find a good house on that salary, as long as it is outside Central London (zone 1).  The cost of borrowing here is very low; as long as she can make her mortgage payments, she should be fine.

[MsJamieDornan]

On 11/3/2016 at 2:01 PM, pasdetrois said:

Angry Whispering. I think for Paul Giametti's performance on Billions? Anyway, it always made me laugh to read it, and I kept thinking Sleepy Whispering, or Boring Whispering, whenever GA opened her mouth

Thank you, thank you.  All 3 seasons she drove me nuts.  I wanted to mute her EVERY time she was on screen. 

ugh.

[John Potts]

On ‎25‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:54 PM, WearyTraveler said:

London house prices are definitely high, but she could find a good house on that salary, as long as it is outside Central London (zone 1). 

I doubt it. My parents house is smaller than Stella's and it's probably worth about £1 million these days - and it's in Zone 3 (Ealing). Now it's not impossible that she bought it at a knock down price at the right time and got a good deal on a mortgage (or inherited it), but her place has to be about 10 times her salary if it was anywhere in London.

[jsbt]

I don't think Spector forgot a thing. I think he was always faking, infatuated with his delusion about the relationship between him and Stella. As said above, when he realized they had him on Susan Harper(?), and then when Stella publicly emasculated him and stripped him down to the angry manchild he really was, all his avant-garde bullshit fell away and he was enraged. He had nowhere else to go and nothing else to do, so his suicide was one final, petulant "look at me" piece of showmanship. As she said, he wants to be noticed, he wants special treatment. Killing himself (and taking the weaker patient with him) was all he had left.

[LilaFowler]

Why was Olivia in foster care?  Didn't we meet Sally-Ann's parents in previous seasons?  Did I hallucinate that?  It's too bad we didn't get closure on what would become of Sally-Ann but a woman who tried to kill herself and her children, as well as having provided an alibi for her serial killer husband, is not going to get her life back. 

I generally enjoyed this season but I don't exactly see the point of it.  I think it would have been better if the series had ended last season. I'd have preferred not knowing if Paul had lived or died, or if Rose had survived, or if Paul's family would recover.  There were a few pointless subplots:  Jim Burns and his drinking, the babysitter and her stupid teenage drama (who really cares about that brat?).  Strange creative choices were made and I don't really understand.

[PhilMarlowe2]

On 10/31/2016 at 6:06 PM, Ravenya003 said:

So after an entire season of Stella pointing out that she couldn't let Spector die because it would let him escape justice and rob the victims of closure, Alan Cubitt decides to end his show with... Spector escaping justice and robbing the victims of closure. Round of applause for that creative decision. 

And this speaks to my issue with the show as a whole. Though it is generally well written, well directed and well acted, I just don't understand the point of any of it. "The Fall" just feels like a mishmash of different thematic ideas that never quite come together into a meaningful whole. So, Stella deeply wanted Paul to pay for his crimes - and, instead, he offs himself. He wins. And she is left to open her mail and drink wine alone in her home. What is the takeaway here? Was it meant to say something about Stella's own obsessive needs? Did it bring her to some point of internal surrender? I feel like when you watch something like "Prime Suspect," DCI Tennison's emotional struggle is so clear and real and it gets paid off. Stella is an interesting character on paper - smart, talented, sexual, vulnerable, apparently haunted by her Dad's death, perhaps overly involved with the criminal that she hunts - but I don't really understand what this journey is ultimately meant to be about for her. Nothing was paid off. But not in a way that felt intentional to me - just vague. Paul "winning" could work if it had some meaningful impact on Stella that we understood in the larger arc of her life. As presented, it just felt anticlimactic.

Edited December 4, 2016 by PhilMarlowe2

[Milburn Stone]

Two characters looked different to me in this episode, as if the hair and makeup personnel on the crew were different. Stella looked if anything more glamorous than before, and Katie suddenly could have passed for a young woman instead of a teenager trying to look older. (I get that she is "growing up" due to her involvement with Spector, but, what, her look changed that much in the space of a day?) I'm gonna go with change of crew personnel.

[Chaos Theory]

On 12/4/2016 at 5:35 PM, PhilMarlowe2 said:

Stella is an interesting character on paper - smart, talented, sexual, vulnerable, apparently haunted by her Dad's death, perhaps overly involved with the criminal that she hunts - but I don't really understand what this journey is ultimately meant to be about for her. Nothing was paid off. But not in a way that felt intentional to me - just vague. Paul "winning" could work if it had some meaningful impact on Stella that we understood in the larger arc of her life. As presented, it just felt anticlimactic.

The point I got from all this was nobody won.  No one got what they wanted.  The well meaning men wanted to make an example of Mary-Ann but pushed her too far and ended up getting a rude awaking.  Mary Ann lost everything that made her who she was.   Katie had no personality that wasn't wrapped around what Specter made her and gets locked away.   Specter realized he was going to lose and the only move he had left was to force a stalemate.   Stella didn't get her trial. All she got was to go home to her empty house and start the game over again with whatever next monster comes along.  In the end I don't think anyone got what they wanted which I think was a clever way to end the show.  

Edited December 6, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Milburn Stone]

On 9/20/2015 at 10:33 AM, KnoxForPres said:

Very late to this show and comments, but I thought Spector's thoughts on those with golden spoon deserved to be punished was a bit too real. Like as he was talking I was hoping psychos weren't watching and justifying reasons to inflict harm. I don't normally think that way, but it was just a bit too detailed for me. And he's hot, which on a sick way would possibly make it more justified to a sicko. Not describing it well, but felt an agenda from production almost came out in that scene.

I see what you're saying, but that was also the very thing that made his motivations seem plausible to the audience. If as the writer you want healthy people to be able to say, "Wow, that feels uncommonly true for a show like this; there's an internal logic there, and I can see how if I were damaged I might feel the same," I can't figure how you could accomplish that without causing the same echo in unhealthy people.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Milburn Stone