S12.E05: It's War

[RealityGal]

 

 

Speaking of:

 

 

 

Katie, who I think is a middle-pack chef too, had been very personally targeted by Aaron prior to this.  He was essentially bullying her repeatedly, so I take no issue with standing tall, getting him in the laser beams and shining a light on why -- far outside of cooking, which in Aaron's instance would also be enough to hang him -- Aaron isn't material for Top Anything, unless they're holding a Top Burr and Irritant contest.  I don't know why Katie should be required to just quietly sit on the guy essentially heaping abuse on her head, for no other real reason than he needs to sort out his childhood trauma.

First off, it sounds like during the challenge everyone was talking shit, if she wanted to get big and defend herself she should have done it the numerous other times that he has called her out.  But to do it in front of the judges?  Whack!  She isn't material for Top anything either, so where she gets off with a superior attitude is a mystery to me.  He was talking shit to her, he talks shit to everyone, but the time to address it, if she didn't like it wasn't where she thinks she could tattle like a 5 year old in front of the judges.  You're a grown ass woman, if you have a problem with someone talking shit to you, you can tell them, but not in front of the judges during competition.  Its the same sort of bitch ass move that Carlos made when claiming to the judges that someone "stole his oven"

Edited November 13, 2014 by RealityGal

[JTMacc99]

You know, I considered the possibility that the judges would throw a vote one way or another to make sure they got to 2-2. But then I realized this isn't Hell's Kitchen, so I pushed that thought back down.

 

And the way they judged made me believe that they they actually voted for a true winner each time.

 

But 2-2 is definitely the way to go if you are producing a TV show.  So I have a question, was there any opportunity for the order of the judging to be juggled in a way that some producer, having tasted all of the dishes before judging, could have made sure we got to 2-2?  Or was the order set from the start with the battles? I wasn't paying close enough attention to know the answer to that question.

[RealityGal]

I am among those who wish that Kristen Kish had stood up for herself at the JT when she was eliminated during her season's Restaurant Wars episode, so I'm glad that Katie did the same. That's probably the last time I'll favorably compare the two, but still... 

 

But in that scenario Kristen didn't stand up when she was in peril of getting eliminated.  Katie's remarks were made when all comments indicated that she had won the battle and so would not be at risk of going home.  There was no need for it, it was petty and ridiculous.  As much of an ass as Aaron is, he is right, cake is sort of a cop out.  All of these judges know food and savory dishes, I would be surprised if any of them felt that they could really judge the finer points of the dessert. So then all you really have to do is produce a decent dessert, nothing spectacular, and the judges won't know any better.  I might have felt a little better about it if she had crushed him, but I felt like a dessert was a bit of an easy out for her.  For however stupid Aarons dish was, he took a risk, Katie made a chocolate cake, its not something to start trash talking about in front of the judges, especially since Hugh had called it out as being boring.

 

If she wanted to take Aaron on, its fine, but being too  passive aggressive to do it until you're at judges table is lame to me.

Edited November 13, 2014 by RealityGal

[ChelseaNH]

I would be surprised if any of them felt that they could really judge the finer points of the dessert

 

And yet there have been challenges (particularly late in the game) which have required a dessert course.  So the judges have not previously shown any reluctance to tackle desserts.

[LoganTheHuge]

First off, it sounds like during the challenge everyone was talking shit, if she wanted to get big and defend herself she should have done it the numerous other times that he has called her out.  But to do it in front of the judges?  Whack!  She isn't material for Top anything either, so where she gets off with a superior attitude is a mystery to me.  He was talking shit to her, he talks shit to everyone, but the time to address it, if she didn't like it wasn't where she thinks she could tattle like a 5 year old in front of the judges.  You're a grown ass woman, if you have a problem with someone talking shit to you, you can tell them, but not in front of the judges during competition.  Its the same sort of bitch ass move that Carlos made when claiming to the judges that someone "stole his oven"

 

While I wholeheartedly agree that Katie won't even be top 5, she had every right to defend herself (and she didn't even do it aggressively). The Editing Monkeys have shown Katie to be pretty quiet, passive and blandly nice. She's a teacher, for goodness sake, she's not ruffling anyone's feathers. That makes her an easy target and Aaron has been picking on her relentlessly. If she finally chooses to speak up in front of the judges, I say good for her. This is a competition so whatever she can do to make herself stand out is what she has to do, and it's not like she lied. She said the truth - Aaron had been needlessly picking on her. No way is Katie going to win but I'm glad that she didn't let herself get trampled on by Aaron and she did the SMART thing - Talked "shit" at the right time to the right people.

 

As for Aaron, I was surprised he got knife'd. I thought it'd be Melissa or Stacy. I thought they'd keep him around for the drama but maybe he was too surly even for the ratings police. At this point, Gregory is Paul Qui'ing everyone. No one even seems close, not even Mei (did you know she works for Michael Voltaggio??) who we all thought would be a frontrunner. I really like little Dougie a lot, he's adorable, but he also doesn't seem to be on the same level as Gregory. Adam talks a big game but has yet to cook a big game. The ladies, sad to say, are all weak. 

 

BTW, I liked the war concept (fitting in with the setting). It was on-the-nose but fun. 

[RealityGal]

While I wholeheartedly agree that Katie won't even be top 5, she had every right to defend herself (and she didn't even do it aggressively). The Editing Monkeys have shown Katie to be pretty quiet, passive and blandly nice. She's a teacher, for goodness sake, she's not ruffling anyone's feathers. That makes her an easy target and Aaron has been picking on her relentlessly. If she finally chooses to speak up in front of the judges, I say good for her. This is a competition so whatever she can do to make herself stand out is what she has to do, and it's not like she lied. She said the truth - Aaron had been needlessly picking on her. No way is Katie going to win but I'm glad that she didn't let herself get trampled on by Aaron and she did the SMART thing - Talked "shit" at the right time to the right people.

 

 

 

But how are the judges the right people?  If anything, Tom at least has seemed put off when someone chooses to bring personality beefs up with the judges at judges table (or whenever they are judging) and it has made almost no difference in how he judges the food.  I remember that when its been done in the past he has seemed to have more of a "get over it" attitude.  What sort of advantage could she have hoped to gain other than looking like a passive aggressive tattle tale?  I think for most of the judges its really all about the food, so whatever personality disputes you have don't really matter to them.  

 

Again, I have no problem with her taking him on, if she has felt picked on, but you're a grown woman, do it to his face, don't be sneaky and wait to do it   The only other advantage she could have wanted to get was for the judges to chastise him, which to me, is also not a grown woman move.  If I need for you to stop certain behavior, the force of me telling you to stop, is enough.  I can handle it, I don't need anyone else to chastise you.

 

To me, I don't think she has stood out in front of the judges in a good way.  At least with Tom, I get the impression that he is pretty old school and complaining about how unfairly you're being picked on by someone doesn't impress him in the least.  If she wants to stand out with the judges, she should stop her passive aggressive whining and cook something decent.  

[Pepper Mostly]

Kristen Kish went to culinary school. She credits her former boss, Barbara Lynch, for teaching her to be a chef. Barbara Lynch grew up in a housing project and never went to culinary school. 

 

LOL. My son just graduated from Johnson & Wales. He works in a hotel, has since the summer between his first and second year. His chef's been a great mentor to him and he's learned a lot. In both venues. Culinary school is like law school or medical school, in a way. You get fundamentals, learn the lingo, and get a good, broad based introduction to cooking methods and styles. Its a great way to go for some people but not the only way. Plenty of excellent chefs started out washing dishes. It seemed like Aaron couldn't make up his mind whether he was a poor widdle deprived child who never got his chance to show his stuff at culinary school, or a swaggering oaf who had nothing but contempt for those effete posers who went to culinary school--why, he could out-cook any of them! Pick one, dude. Or don't. I will never see you again and that suits me right down to the ground.

[meep.meep]

Katie's dish also had the redeeming characteristic of being pretty cheap.  Since the budget was split across the entire team, that helped out the other chefs.  Aaron's dish used meat (pork for the meatballs) and seafood (scallop noodles).  No one has ever liked scallop noodles when they've been served on Top Chef.  And apparently his meatball was dreadful.  He lost, or she beat him, whatever perspective you put on it.

 

Maybe now that there's only 1 contestant whose name starts with an A, that I can remember it.  Adam, not Andrew damnit.

[Wings]

But how are the judges the right people?  If anything, Tom at least has seemed put off when someone chooses to bring personality beefs up with the judges at judges table (or whenever they are judging) and it has made almost no difference in how he judges the food.  I remember that when its been done in the past he has seemed to have more of a "get over it" attitude.  What sort of advantage could she have hoped to gain other than looking like a passive aggressive tattle tale?  I think for most of the judges its really all about the food, so whatever personality disputes you have don't really matter to them.  

 

Again, I have no problem with her taking him on, if she has felt picked on, but you're a grown woman, do it to his face, don't be sneaky and wait to do it   The only other advantage she could have wanted to get was for the judges to chastise him, which to me, is also not a grown woman move.  If I need for you to stop certain behavior, the force of me telling you to stop, is enough.  I can handle it, I don't need anyone else to chastise you.

 

To me, I don't think she has stood out in front of the judges in a good way.  At least with Tom, I get the impression that he is pretty old school and complaining about how unfairly you're being picked on by someone doesn't impress him in the least.  If she wants to stand out with the judges, she should stop her passive aggressive whining and cook something decent.  

 

I agree.  Good post.

 

I love it when they tattle on each other and bicker in front of the judges though!  It entertains me.  :>)

[stillshimpy]

First off, it sounds like during the challenge everyone was talking shit, if she wanted to get big and defend herself she should have done it the numerous other times that he has called her out.  But to do it in front of the judges?  Whack!  She isn't material for Top anything either, so where she gets off with a superior attitude is a mystery to me.

 

This is the second time that Aaron made belittling Katie a top priority for him.  He'd done it before when he was up for elimination in a quickfire and chose her specifically because she was a culinary instructor.  Now he actually beat her there, but I don't personally believe that being a grown-ass anything is manifested by allowing someone to belittle or demean you because that's allegedly what grownups do.  

 

It's decidedly not being part of a grownup or mature interactions.  There will always be some trash-talking in competition, it's true, and what Katie did wasn't any different than what Aaron was doing.  She just did it in front of the judges where he'd have to answer to someone for it.  Trash-talking belongs on a playground, in my opinion.  Tom didn't look in the least put off to me.  

 

I might feel differently if I liked Aaron even a tiny little bit, or if he hadn't just been arrested for domestic violence.  He likes to push women around in real life too and in a very real way, and I was very pleased indeed, and remain so , to see a woman pushing back.  

Edited November 13, 2014 by stillshimpy

[ChelseaNH]

Culinary school is like law school or medical school, in a way.

 

Not too surprising:  Doctors, lawyers and chefs all traditionally learned through apprenticeships until recently.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

But how are the judges the right people?  If anything, Tom at least has seemed put off when someone chooses to bring personality beefs up with the judges at judges table (or whenever they are judging) and it has made almost no difference in how he judges the food.  I remember that when its been done in the past he has seemed to have more of a "get over it" attitude.  What sort of advantage could she have hoped to gain other than looking like a passive aggressive tattle tale?  I think for most of the judges its really all about the food, so whatever personality disputes you have don't really matter to them.  

 

Again, I have no problem with her taking him on, if she has felt picked on, but you're a grown woman, do it to his face, don't be sneaky and wait to do it   The only other advantage she could have wanted to get was for the judges to chastise him, which to me, is also not a grown woman move.  If I need for you to stop certain behavior, the force of me telling you to stop, is enough.  I can handle it, I don't need anyone else to chastise you.

 

To me, I don't think she has stood out in front of the judges in a good way.  At least with Tom, I get the impression that he is pretty old school and complaining about how unfairly you're being picked on by someone doesn't impress him in the least.  If she wants to stand out with the judges, she should stop her passive aggressive whining and cook something decent.  

 

She did do it "face to face."  She just happened to do it at a time of maximum advantage to her, when it was in front of the judges.  Furthermore, she wasn't accusing Aaron of any subterfuge (like Carlos) or of doing anything to sabotage her dish.  She was just calling him out rightly for the asshole that he was.  So no, I don't have a problem with it.  She wasn't talking about him to the judges behind his back, she wasn't accusing him of anything nefarious, she was just shining a spotlight at a time when it worked best to her advantage.  It's not her fault he's a total moron whose behavior can be used against him.

 

As much of an ass as Aaron is, he is right, cake is sort of a cop out.  All of these judges know food and savory dishes, I would be surprised if any of them felt that they could really judge the finer points of the dessert.

 

 

He's not right, IMO. Making a good cake is not easy, it isn't inappropriate, and even savory chefs can judge if a cake is too dry or without flavor or too heavy or what have you.  Katie was smart and played to her strengths and won; Aaron was not smart, tried to present an overly complicated dish that was beyond his skill, but instead of letting his dish stand alone, he tried to play it off like somehow Katie's dish didn't deserve to beat his because it was "cop out." It was a silly and immature strategy, and IMO he deserved public ridicule for it.

Edited November 13, 2014 by eleanorofaquitaine

[greyhorse]

So did they actually feed the 500 guests?  I recall seeing maybe 30 seconds of guests getting food, but then everything else was based on the judges' voting. 

 

I didn't like the battles/vs. set-up.  As they said at JT, all you have to do is beat one person on your team.

 

So refreshing not to have the pompous Richard Blais this week...

[RealityGal]

This is the second time that Aaron made belittling Katie a top priority for him.  He'd done it before when he was up for elimination in a quickfire and chose her specifically because she was a culinary instructor.  Now he actually beat her there, but I don't personally believe that being a grown-ass anything is manifested by allowing someone to belittle or demean you because that's allegedly what grownups do.  

 

It's decidedly not being part of a grownup or mature interactions.  There will always be some trash-talking in competition, it's true, and what Katie did wasn't any different than what Aaron was doing.  She just did it in front of the judges where he'd have to answer to someone for it.  Trash-talking belongs on a playground, in my opinion.  Tom didn't look in the least put off to me.  

 

I might feel differently if I liked Aaron even a tiny little bit, or if he hadn't just been arrested for domestic violence.  He likes to push women around in real life too and in a very real way, and I was very pleased indeed, and remain so , to see a woman pushing back.  

I think grown ass has something to do with it, because I believe that a grown up should have enough gravitas to stop someone from doing something on their own. If she thought she was being unfairly picked on, take him to task one adult to another adult.  Doing it in front of the judges, to me, makes you look like you can't control a personality conflict on your own so you have to passive aggressively take it up in front of the judges.  To me, Tom looked like he couldn't have given two shits about her carrying on.  He had to say something because he had to say something.  What Katie did was different because she presented the comment to the judges out of context.  Since everyone was trash talking and the judges weren't there they couldn't see if there was or wasn't a situation where everyone was trash talking, instead she made it sound like Aaron was right in front of her berating her and only her, and no one else was doing anything.  And that to me as well is a bitch move.  

 

But I think MV, and mostly because people hate Aaron.

[heebiejeebie]

I do agree that Aaron's pure ass brought out the worst in Katie.  But Katie also did herself no favors since her push back seemed to be the same type a kid does who hides behind the adult's shoulders and makes faces at the other kid while the adult's attention is elsewhere.  There was something rather petty to it.  Descending to Aaron's level.  Which I think my annoyance with her would have been much less or completely absent had she done so from the safety of a great dish.  The cake to me seemed like it was tasty in the way that any simple pan cake dolloped with cremes and sauces can be.  I heard nothing that suggested that even in its simplicity it was one of the best pan cakes they ever tasted.  It was safe in that I think by this point, anyone coming in can memorize a simple cake recipe. 

 

I do agree that again and again, season after season, contestants sneer at pastry and it bites them in the ass.  But their failure doesn't make a simple cake difficult or a brave move.  It simply means Katie watches past seasons and pays attention.  I think that was a huge part of both Tom's and Hugh's points in slapping down Aaron. 

 

So as much as I would do think Aaron getting "schooled" (get it) I found Katie standing on what could have been the losing dish against more than half the others rather weak and petty in her own right.  It does not make Aaron less wrong or less piggish or less...Aaron.  But it places Katie in a position that I strongly suspect will lift my surly snide lips into a smile when she gets the heave herself.  Quite frankly in all their cooking, Aaron, as much as I hate to say it, as a chef seemed head and shoulders over Katie despite him not having the focus maturity or sense of self to carry it off.  At the end of the day, I just find Katie very Betty Crocker.  And as an instructor, unfair it may be, I would hope a posturing immature know-it-all would either be water off her back or simply pure amusement.  Even with the matter of a competition adding stress. 

 

Usually I just want to see the cooking and how the dishes turned out.  But just one more crafted argument (I saw you Tom Col-dickio and your trying to stir things up with the questioning of who was working for himself and who was being a "team player"; I wish as producer he would step down as judge, he wears with his hypocrisy on how perfect the judging is) when it is Adam, Keriann, Katie and Katsuji forced to fight for their knives would make me smile as well.

[RealityGal]

She did do it "face to face."  She just happened to do it at a time of maximum advantage to her, when it was in front of the judges.  Furthermore, she wasn't accusing Aaron of any subterfuge (like Carlos) or of doing anything to sabotage her dish.  She was just calling him out rightly for the asshole that he was.  So no, I don't have a problem with it.  She wasn't talking about him to the judges behind his back, she wasn't accusing him of anything nefarious, she was just shining a spotlight at a time when it worked best to her advantage.  It's not her fault he's a total moron whose behavior can be used against him.

 

 

He's not right, IMO. Making a good cake is not easy, it isn't inappropriate, and even savory chefs can judge if a cake is too dry or without flavor or too heavy or what have you.  Katie was smart and played to her strengths and won; Aaron was not smart, tried to present an overly complicated dish that was beyond his skill, but instead of letting his dish stand alone, he tried to play it off like somehow Katie's dish didn't deserve to beat his because it was "cop out." It was a silly and immature strategy, and IMO he deserved public ridicule for it.

 

Not easy, but I think it involves a different skill set.  I've seen contestants say things like "ugh, I don't want dessert, I came here to cook!"  I can tell if a cake it too dry or flavorless.  I can also tell if a dish is too salty, but I can't give you the type of in depth analysis that the judges can on a savory dish.  My feeling is that their analysis of a dessert is mostly as superficial as my analysis would be.  She chose something that the judges couldn't give her an in-depth analysis of, as they do with savory dishes.  Aaron didn't start out saying anything in front of the judges, Katie was the one who started talking in front of the judges about what Aaron said, and it looked to me, like she was hoping to gain brownie points because Aaron was just so very mean about her dessert.  And its not like it was a slam dunk, Tom's praise seemed lukewarm, Hugh said it was boring.  I attribute that strategy to Katie, instead of just letting her food talk for itself, she instead had to bring up some meaningless trash talking to try to bolster a boring dish.

 

Personally, I don't think Tom has any appreciation for someone telling him anything about a personality conflict, and I could totally see him thinking its kind of a baby-ish move as adults should be able to deal with it on their own.

[Julia]

I fall in the middle on this one (and I don't like Aaron at all). On the one hand, I think what Katie did was kind of manipulative, and that she wouldn't have done it if she hadn't known fhat the judges weren't particularly impressed with Aaron.

 

On the other hand, while the adult thing to do would have been to tell Aaron how she felt in real time if she was that bothered about it, we are talking about Aaron here, and Aaron repeatedly picked at people until someone reacted and then targeted that person for the rest of the challenge. It's fair for Katie not to want to set herself up for that.

[RealityGal]

I do agree that Aaron's pure ass brought out the worst in Katie.  But Katie also did herself no favors since her push back seemed to be the same type a kid does who hides behind the adult's shoulders and makes faces at the other kid while the adult's attention is elsewhere.  There was something rather petty to it.  Descending to Aaron's level.  Which I think my annoyance with her would have been much less or completely absent had she done so from the safety of a great dish.  The cake to me seemed like it was tasty in the way that any simple pan cake dolloped with cremes and sauces can be.  I heard nothing that suggested that even in its simplicity it was one of the best pan cakes they ever tasted.  It was safe in that I think by this point, anyone coming in can memorize a simple cake recipe. 

 

I do agree that again and again, season after season, contestants sneer at pastry and it bites them in the ass.  But their failure doesn't make a simple cake difficult or a brave move.  It simply means Katie watches past seasons and pays attention.  I think that was a huge part of both Tom's and Hugh's points in slapping down Aaron. 

 

So as much as I would do think Aaron getting "schooled" (get it) I found Katie standing on what could have been the losing dish against more than half the others rather weak and petty in her own right.  It does not make Aaron less wrong or less piggish or less...Aaron.  But it places Katie in a position that I strongly suspect will lift my surly snide lips into a smile when she gets the heave herself.  Quite frankly in all their cooking, Aaron, as much as I hate to say it, as a chef seemed head and shoulders over Katie despite him not having the focus maturity or sense of self to carry it off.  At the end of the day, I just find Katie very Betty Crocker.  And as an instructor, unfair it may be, I would hope a posturing immature know-it-all would either be water off her back or simply pure amusement.  Even with the matter of a competition adding stress. 

 

Usually I just want to see the cooking and how the dishes turned out.  But just one more crafted argument (I saw you Tom Col-dickio and your trying to stir things up with the questioning of who was working for himself and who was being a "team player"; I wish as producer he would step down as judge, he wears with his hypocrisy on how perfect the judging is) when it is Adam, Keriann, Katie and Katsuji forced to fight for their knives would make me smile as well.

Yes, exactly.  I'm not saying it as good as you, but yes, especially the part I highlighted.

[bunnywithanaxe]

If I was in an actual restaurant with a kitchen view, and heard a cook spending the bulk of his time narrating the flaws of another cook, I would have serious apprehensions about the quality of my dish to come.

Katie wasn't being passive aggressive-- she was focusing on her dish at the time she needed to. Perhaps Aaron's dish failed because his attention was elsewhere. His behavior might be tolerated in a competition show, but IRL his unprofessional victim-baiting would get him shitcanned-- because you are not helping the kitchen team keep at optimum levels of performance.

So, I think Katie had every right to call him out on hectoring fellow team members in a team challenge. That shit will lose you jobs.

[ChelseaNH]

I don't think Tom has any appreciation for someone telling him anything about a personality conflict

 

Tom was the one who asked about it.  After the judges offered comments on her dish, Katie mentioned that her choice to do a cake had been criticized.  Tom asked her who said that, and then Katie said Aaron had made the comment.  She didn't complain that Aaron was mean to her, so they weren't talking about a personality conflict -- they were talking about the appropriateness of a dish for a certain venue.

[Chasing Whitebeams]

While there are definitely instances where tattling is plainly tattling, I absolutely loved what Katie did. 

This "be a grown up and tell it to one's face" argument simply doesn't work when one is dealing with assholes like Aaron: telling a person like that what they are doing is a problem to you will often only add fuel to the fire. So for Katie to bring it up with the judges in such a light and Aaron-shaming way, was great ! 
Simply put: don't be a dick and behave in a way that will land you in a bad light.

That said,
I really like this season! I think I'm developing a through-the-screen-crush on Doug, but my favourite so far is Mei. I've seen people complaining about her foul mouth, so when she pretty much went into the challenge exclaiming "Gotta get this [beep] to a [beeping] fan!", I enjoyed it on a meta level.
Gregory is amazing.

Wish Melissa and Bostooooon!!!-Stacy were doing better 'cause Melissa's cool demeanour is pleasing, and Stacy's brashness, too.

Adam doesn't annoy me at all, and a Adam+Doug short guy and tall guy bromance needs to happen right now.

I loved someone describing KerriAnn as pageant chef, but I still love her as a character, and even though I find her constantly annoying, I'm still rooting for her to do well in challenges.
The food looks tasty and there seems to be a nice focus on it. 

Now that Aaron is gone, the only bad thing left is Blais.

[ShadowSixx]

I was a little thrown off when the judges were discussing the dishes at the event and said they know who they want to eliminate, and then they said let's go back to judge's table. What's the point, why not just hold the elimination right then and there since you already know who you're going to send home. 

[stillshimpy]

On the other hand, while the adult thing to do would have been to tell Aaron how she felt in real time if she was that bothered about it, we are talking about Aaron here, and Aaron repeatedly picked at people until someone reacted and then targeted that person for the rest of the challenge. It's fair for Katie not to want to set herself up for that.

 

I agree with this.  I don't actually think that highly of Kerianne, although I suppose I like her well enough, but everyone's already been treated to how Aaron reacted when someone tried to talk to him to his face after she tried to confront him in the stew room a few episodes back. He blows up and name calls. That's not a person you can have an adult exchange with to try and settle a difference.  

 

Aaron seems to have an actual problem with women, but he also told Gregory and Katsuji not to piss him off when he was on a team with them last week.  He not only is a hothead, he prides himself on being a hothead, apparently.   He thinks it's up to everybody else to not set off his personal bombs and if they do, he apparently thinks that's solely on them.  I really didn't like that little creep.  

 

He seems to have a problem with women, he reacts disproportionately to anyone trying to confront him on even ground and I thought Katie was well within her rights to call him out in front of someone Aaron wouldn't dare react to with shouting, cursing or name-calling.  

 

I do suspect if it had been anyone other than Aaron, I would feel differently, but I felt that Aaron richly earned that particular moment of embarrassment, when he couldn't  overreact and blow up (thereby actually escalating the problem).   

 

She clearly took a little bit of wicked delight in it, but she wasn't alone in that as she had at least me for company.  Was it manipulative? Oh hell yes.  Did that trollish little bully really have it coming? I think he did.  Plus, it was so obvious that Aaron wasn't going to last too far into the season.  He was sloppy on top of everything else, but I liked that he helped paint himself into that corner just by being a jerk, over and over again.   The only thing that made his exit better than the fact that it was his exit, was that he actually had to behave like a professional and an adult because someone he feared was involved,  rather than his go-to tantrums.  

Edited November 13, 2014 by stillshimpy

[leighdear]

Ya know, I would pay serious money to never.ever.ever hear anbody say any variation of "It's a party in your mouth". 

 

The most annoying and stupid phrase ever.  In all versions.  Makes me want to stab whomever says it with a shrimp fork. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I do agree that Aaron's pure ass brought out the worst in Katie.  But Katie also did herself no favors since her push back seemed to be the same type a kid does who hides behind the adult's shoulders and makes faces at the other kid while the adult's attention is elsewhere.  There was something rather petty to it.  Descending to Aaron's level.  Which I think my annoyance with her would have been much less or completely absent had she done so from the safety of a great dish.  The cake to me seemed like it was tasty in the way that any simple pan cake dolloped with cremes and sauces can be.  I heard nothing that suggested that even in its simplicity it was one of the best pan cakes they ever tasted.  It was safe in that I think by this point, anyone coming in can memorize a simple cake recipe. 

 

 

But, again, IMO she wasn't "hiding" behind anyone - she was quite openly standing in front of both the judges and Aaron's voicing her criticisms. That is how adults act with each other, something that Aaron doesn't seem to understand.  There seems to be a sense that Katie was "tattling" on Aaron, like somehow she and Aaron were children, and that is what made her complaints objectionable.  But the fact is that all of them - the judges and the cheftestants - are adults, and it is perfectly reasonable for one cheftestant to voice their criticism of another in front of the judges. It can be a risky proposition, of course, because the judges may not see the situation the way that the cheftestant does.  But that doesn't mean that adults can't complain about other adults in front of other adults.

 

As for the assessment of the cake, unfortunately, I don't think any of us can make a determination if it was more than just a simple pan cake without having eaten it. And even "simple pan cakes" can be screwed up and easily become not so tasty because baking is an exact science.

 

Not easy, but I think it involves a different skill set.  I've seen contestants say things like "ugh, I don't want dessert, I came here to cook!"  I can tell if a cake it too dry or flavorless.  I can also tell if a dish is too salty, but I can't give you the type of in depth analysis that the judges can on a savory dish.  My feeling is that their analysis of a dessert is mostly as superficial as my analysis would be.  She chose something that the judges couldn't give her an in-depth analysis of, as they do with savory dishes.  Aaron didn't start out saying anything in front of the judges, Katie was the one who started talking in front of the judges about what Aaron said, and it looked to me, like she was hoping to gain brownie points because Aaron was just so very mean about her dessert.  And its not like it was a slam dunk, Tom's praise seemed lukewarm, Hugh said it was boring.  I attribute that strategy to Katie, instead of just letting her food talk for itself, she instead had to bring up some meaningless trash talking to try to bolster a boring dish.

 

Personally, I don't think Tom has any appreciation for someone telling him anything about a personality conflict, and I could totally see him thinking its kind of a baby-ish move as adults should be able to deal with it on their own.

 

I both bake and cook, and yes, they are different skill sets when it comes to the process.  But not when it comes to eating them.  Any person with a halfway decent palate can assess the complexity of a cake flavor or whether or not the texture is off or whether or not a cake is moist vs. dry without actually knowing how to achieve those results themselves.  Savory chefs, if they are good ones, also have to make those assessments with those savory foods, so I see no reason to doubt the judges ability to make the right determination on that course.  After all, Tom, Hugh, and Jamie Bissonnette are executive chefs, and I am sure that their restaurants have desserts on the menu.  I imagine that as the executive chef, they are the ones who are making the decision to keep a dessert dish on their menu, too, and if something doesn't taste good or the texture is off, they are going to know it.

 

I don't think that Tom has a blanket horror of personality conflicts.  I think that when he likes a cheftestant, he is more likely to view complaints from them against others favorably and that when he doesn't like a cheftestant, he is more likely to views complaints against them favorably.  I didn't see him reacting to Katie or thinking she was "baby-ish" for her complaints.

Edited November 14, 2014 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Latverian Diplomat]

Did it seem odd to anyone else that the theme of the elimination challenge was "battles which mostly took place nowhere near Boston"?

Not really. They included the only two that happened near Boston, and three significant American victories. What else you gonna do?

 

Though I admit, using the Battle of Brooklyn Heights, The Battle of Brandywine Creek, and the Battle of Camden (three big British wins) would have been wonderfully subversive.

[MortysCleaningLady]

Major pet peeve for me:

 

It's the Battles of Lexington and Concord, not single battle.  Go to either Lexington or Concord and ask about the battle, they will only tell you about the one fought in their town.  It was too separate battles with two different groups of patriots.  Lexington folks will also gladly tell you their town was the first to fight.

 

Now, onto the good stuff:  Aaron is gone. 

 

Other comments - Stacy was lucky.  Mei and Gregory are both really good chefs and it would be a pleasure to eat their food.

 

 

[RealityGal]

But, again, IMO she wasn't "hiding" behind anyone - she was quite openly standing in front of both the judges and Aaron's voicing her criticisms. That is how adults act with each other, something that Aaron doesn't seem to understand.  There seems to be a sense that Katie was "tattling" on Aaron, like somehow she and Aaron were children, and that is what made her complaints objectionable.  But the fact is that all of them - the judges and the cheftestants - are adults, and it is perfectly reasonable for one cheftestant to voice their criticism of another in front of the judges. It can be a risky proposition, of course, because the judges may not see the situation the way that the cheftestant does.  But that doesn't mean that adults can't complain about other adults in front of other adults.

 

As for the assessment of the cake, unfortunately, I don't think any of us can make a determination if it was more than just a simple pan cake without having eaten it. And even "simple pan cakes" can be screwed up and easily become not so tasty because baking is an exact science.

 

 

I both bake and cook, and yes, they are different skill sets when it comes to the process.  But not when it comes to eating them.  Any person with a halfway decent palate can assess the complexity of a cake flavor or whether or not the texture is off or whether or not a cake is moist vs. dry without actually knowing how to achieve those results themselves.  Savory chefs, if they are good ones, also have to make those assessments with those savory foods, so I see no reason to doubt the judges ability to make the right determination on that course.  After all, Tom, Hugh, and Jamie Bissonnette are executive chefs, and I am sure that their restaurants have desserts on the menu.  I imagine that as the executive chef, they are the ones who are making the decision to keep a dessert dish on their menu, too, and if something doesn't taste good or the texture is off, they are going to know it.

 

I don't think that Tom has a blanket horror of personality conflicts.  I think that when he likes a cheftestant, he is more likely to view complaints from them against others favorably and that when he doesn't like a cheftestant, he is more likely to views complaints against them favorably.  I didn't see him reacting to Katie or thinking she was "baby-ish" for her complaints.

Seeing as how they are different, and most chefs aren't very into desserts, unless they specialize in this (or so it seems to me) then it puts the judges in Padma territory of judging, which is to say, its like me judging something.  I know if something is simply too salty or dry, I think 80% of the country could tell you if a cake was too dry or if a dish was over the top salty.  But the in-depth analysis that the judges do, beyond the simple, me and Padma level of judging is pretty much for the savory dishes.  I think Katie does not want to be judged on that in-depth level if she can avoid it because she couldn't compete.  I do think Tom may take the complaints of someone he likes seriously, but he likes people based mostly on their food and if he has any respect for their food.  I don't think he has evidenced any big respect for Katie, and while he had to let Aaron go, I think he would have more respect for someone who aimed for the fences than someone who is whining at him and only did something safe.  The thing with Katie was that Tom just let the whole thing fizzle, and the look he gave her, to me said, he could really care less.  I think if Gregory had a personality conflict, or had some sort of complaint in front of the judges, I think Tom would have been a little more concerned.

 

I don't think heebiejeebie was saying that she actually did hide behind the judges, but that it was that level of petty and childish.  She was basically asking for the judges to punish Aaron for being mean to her, and talking smack about her cake.  Something, she herself wouldn't do during the massive amounts of time she was around Aaron with the judges not being around.  You're an adult, you don't need to beg someone to punish another adult because they are hurting your feelings, take it up with the person you have a problem with.  She was attempting to tattle on Aaron, and I'm sure she is hurt that the judges comments didn't go further.  

 

I actually don't think adults behave like that at all, most people I've worked with know what to tell the boss and what not to tell the boss.  And telling the boss about immaterial general or even specific trash talking would not be respected in any workplace I've been in (unless it rose to some level of illegal).  For one, if I have a problem with someone, I can take care of it myself, I don't need someone else to step in and defend me.  Second, I assume my boss hired me to work, not to regale him with personality conflict stories about how someone hurt my feelings by telling me my cake was lame.  It's like having that one co-worker that you just avoid because you know that the second they may or may not perceive a hurt feeling they will be in HR complaining.  Funny thing about those people, the person they are complaining about will generally get a talking to, but the complainer will almost never get promoted.  You'll see the person that they were complaining about get promoted before you see them get moved anywhere.  They are all adults, but they aren't all in the same position.

Edited November 14, 2014 by RealityGal

[heebiejeebie]

 

 

I don't think heebiejeebie was saying that she actually did hide behind the judges, but that it was that level of petty and childish.  She was basically asking for the judges to punish Aaron for being mean to her, and talking smack about her cake.  Something, she herself wouldn't do during the massive amounts of time she was around Aaron with the judges not being around.  You're an adult, you don't need to beg someone to punish another adult because they are hurting your feelings, take it up with the person you have a problem with.  She was attempting to tattle on Aaron, and I'm sure she is hurt that the judges comments didn't go further.  

 

 

 

 

Ding Ding Ding!

 

And you are the winner of 'Where's He going with this Over Done Analogy"

[RealityGal]

Ding Ding Ding!

 

And you are the winner of 'Where's He going with this Over Done Analogy"

What prize do I win????

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Major pet peeve for me:

 

It's the Battles of Lexington and Concord, not single battle.  Go to either Lexington or Concord and ask about the battle, they will only tell you about the one fought in their town.  It was too separate battles with two different groups of patriots.  Lexington folks will also gladly tell you their town was the first to fight.

 

Now, onto the good stuff:  Aaron is gone. 

 

Other comments - Stacy was lucky.  Mei and Gregory are both really good chefs and it would be a pleasure to eat their food.

The Minuteman National Park actually includes both towns, and having just read Bunker Hill by Nathaniel Philbrick, I am not sure it is quite accurate to say that it was two different sets of people. Certainly, the Lexington townsfolk who first encountered the British regulars didn't march their way into Concord, but on the British side, it was the same group of people.  And while retreating after they were defeated in Concord, a lot of the Lexington Minutemen did end up battling again.  I tend to think of what happened that day as one long continuous battle from Lexington to Concord back to Lexington and then through Arlington and into Charlestown, which the British burned down.

 

Seeing as how they are different, and most chefs aren't very into desserts, unless they specialize in this (or so it seems to me) then it puts the judges in Padma territory of judging, which is to say, its like me judging something.  I know if something is simply too salty or dry, I think 80% of the country could tell you if a cake was too dry or if a dish was over the top salty.  But the in-depth analysis that the judges do, beyond the simple, me and Padma level of judging is pretty much for the savory dishes.  I think Katie does not want to be judged on that in-depth level if she can avoid it because she couldn't compete.  I do think Tom may take the complaints of someone he likes seriously, but he likes people based mostly on their food and if he has any respect for their food.  I don't think he has evidenced any big respect for Katie, and while he had to let Aaron go, I think he would have more respect for someone who aimed for the fences than someone who is whining at him and only did something safe.  The thing with Katie was that Tom just let the whole thing fizzle, and the look he gave her, to me said, he could really care less.  I think if Gregory had a personality conflict, or had some sort of complaint in front of the judges, I think Tom would have been a little more concerned.

 

I don't think heebiejeebie was saying that she actually did hide behind the judges, but that it was that level of petty and childish.  She was basically asking for the judges to punish Aaron for being mean to her, and talking smack about her cake.  Something, she herself wouldn't do during the massive amounts of time she was around Aaron with the judges not being around.  You're an adult, you don't need to beg someone to punish another adult because they are hurting your feelings, take it up with the person you have a problem with.  She was attempting to tattle on Aaron, and I'm sure she is hurt that the judges comments didn't go further.  

 

I actually don't think adults behave like that at all, most people I've worked with know what to tell the boss and what not to tell the boss.  And telling the boss about immaterial general or even specific trash talking would not be respected in any workplace I've been in.  For one, if I have a problem with someone, I can take care of it myself, I don't need someone else to step in and defend me.  Second, I assume my boss hired me to work, not to regale him with personality conflict stories about how someone hurt my feelings by telling me my cake was lame.  It's like having that one co-worker that you just avoid because you know that the second they may or may not perceive a hurt feeling they will be in HR complaining.  Funny thing about those people, the person they are complaining about will generally get a talking to, but the complainer will almost never get promoted.  You'll see the person that they were complaining about get promoted before you see them get moved anywhere.  They are all adults, but they aren't all in the same position.

 

WRT whether or not the judges are qualified to judge desserts, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.  I don't see any reason to doubt the judges ability to determine what makes a good dessert dish. 

 

As for Katie's comments being comparable to a work situation, I don't think it is.  But I have worked and do work with a lot of people who do a lot of internal trash-talking amongst each other, and in my view, they'd mostly respect Katie's strategy and game for making Aaron look like the totally immature asshole that he is. 

 

ETA: heebiejeebie, I still read you as accusing Katie as "tattling" and that comes with an implied accusation that she is telling tales out of school. I don't agree with that assessment. I don't think she was tattling, I don't think she acted childish, and I don't think she really put herself on Aaron's level.  Instead, what she did is show Aaron why you should never, ever underestimate an opponent.

Edited November 14, 2014 by eleanorofaquitaine

[stillshimpy]

So I watched the episode again, just to see if I was remembering it correctly and I have to say, I really wasn't.  

 

I think every time Aaron was onscreen, I tend to view him with such dislike that anything he does seems huge to me.  He was actually restrained, or relatively so and was really only about half as nasty as I remember him being and that was actually towards Kerianne when she couldn't hear him.  

 

But that whole thing in front of the judges with Katie didn't go down the way I was recalling at all -- I think I was so delighted to see Aaron lose and be called on the carpet that I didn't pick a couple of things.   

 

For one thing Katie didn't even start any of that.  Padma was the person who talked about a prior conflict with Aaron and battling him before and what was this one like.  So Katie was specifically asked how things went between them in the kitchen.  Katie wasn't being petty or small, she was asked to describe what went down in the kitchen and said "then I hear a voice from the other side of the kitchen saying 'why would anyone make chocolate cake?' (or something like that) "  and at that point Tom asks "Why would anyone say that?"   

 

At which point Katie says, "That's a very good questions, let's ask him!"   So the judges actually prompted the whole thing, up to and including Tom wondering why anyone would say that, when the only person who could answer that was Aaron.  

 

But in fairness, Aaron behaved ...I won't say "better" but nowhere near as abrasively as I was remembering him to, prior to that.  I am still glad he is gone.  I still think he has issues with women in general.  He has a chip on his shoulder and I think the guy is a jerk, but that whole confrontation didn't go down as I was remembering it.  

 

Oddly enough, Gregory chiming in seemed much stranger to me.   

 

Anyway, when emotions were running hotter around here last night, that whole thing seemed different to me than it did on second viewing.  I'm far more convinced that Katie really didn't do anything wrong, but in fairness, Aaron wasn't anywhere near as much of a jerk to her last night as I thought he had been.  It was actually Katsuji who was (for some reason telling her not to cheer for their team, although he was later doing that too).  

 

 

 

She was attempting to tattle on Aaron, and I'm sure she is hurt that the judges comments didn't go further.

 

She was actually answering a direct question from Padma about what it was like in the kitchen between them, given that they had already cooked head-to-head before.   I don't think she was under any obligation whatsoever to not answer a direct question because it might reflect badly on Aaron.  

Edited November 14, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Lura]

As far as Greg's speaking out is concerned, I never batted an eye.  It didn't strike me as ego, but rather as frustration.  In the previous episode, he was matched up with Aaron and Katsuji and had to keep them from playing war games the entire time.  I felt, in this case, that he'd had it with Aaron.  We all have moments when we speak out, due to frustration, and later wish that maybe we shouldn't have.  During each episode so far, Gregory has accepted wins with total humility and sometimes looked a little embarrassed.  He's been intent on being a better person than he once was, so I took his remark as irritation, not ego.

 

Katie began this season as almost a wallflower.  She's beginning to come out of her shell and cook some daring dishes.  I'm happy to see that she has a little more grit than I thought she had.  Aaron's remarks to her and about her have stung!  She, like Greg, has gone on, putting up with him and his ilk, until she finally saw fit to say a word or two.  I felt that she was entitled to say what she did, if only to pound that obnoxious little squirt a little lower into the ground!  I believe that both Greg and Katie had had it up to their eyeballs and were completely justified in speaking up and saying what each of them said.

[stillshimpy]

As far as Greg's speaking out is concerned, I never batted an eye.  It didn't strike me as ego, but rather as frustration.  In the previous episode, he was matched up with Aaron and Katsuji and had to keep them from playing war games the entire time.

 

That's actually why I said Gregory's remark seemed stranger -- not worse, just stranger -- when I watched again, because oddly enough whereas they were talking about Aaron's dish, it was only second-hand.  Gregory piped up about whether Adam, who Tom was asking (essentially) if Adam should have nixed Aaron's dish.  Adam said basically that no, he knew that no one could tell him what to cook (and the implication was that Adam wouldn't then attempt to for anyone else).  

 

So what made it stranger was that Gregory really was kind of criticizing Adam for allowing Aaron's sub-par dish to go out.  That he, Gregory, would not have allowed that in any kitchen he was running.  It was a criticism of Adam's failure to lead as much as about Aaron's dish.  

 

I still don't think there was anything necessarily wrong with Gregory chiming in, but his motivation was murkier to me this time.  

[Happytobehere]

.

When Gregory said he never would have allowed Aaron's dish to happen I wished the judges had asked him what specifically he would have done.  It's great to shout out things that echo what the judges are saying.  Back that shit up with some details, though, because I can't think of one way any chef could have stopped someone like Aaron from making their dish- short of perhaps jumping in and cooking the ingredients themselves or sabotaging them.

I intitially thought Gregory's chiming up was strange but upon REWATCH neither the chefs nor the judges seem taken aback and it followed Adam and the rest of the team being questioned, so I think the question was posed to all and we were shown Gregory's response either because it best encapsulated what was said or because with assface going, they need to give someone else the jerk edit.

[leighdear]

 

And even "simple pan cakes" can be screwed up and easily become not so tasty because baking is an exact science.

I agree.  And for me, baking a cake in these competitions isn't a cop-out.  Because of that pesky science. 

 

If you mess up the cake, it usually cannot be fixed.  Once you put it in the oven, you have no more control over it (aside from over-baking or under-baking).  If it's not right, there is no sauce, puree, brittle, ganache, foam, coulis, cream or magic sprinkle that's going to change the most important component.  If it sucks, you are stuck.

 

If you under season a protein, you can sprinkle on more before serving.  You can thin down a sauce, you can add things to amp up the flavor, etc.  Most protein-based dishes can be adjusted before serving, in a way that a cake can't.  Of course, over seasoning some things can't be changed.  But while cooks can taste most things while cooking, you can't do that with cake.  

[bunnywithanaxe]

 

For one thing Katie didn't even start any of that.  Padma was the person who talked about a prior conflict with Aaron and battling him before and what was this one like.  So Katie was specifically asked how things went between them in the kitchen.  Katie wasn't being petty or small, she was asked to describe what went down in the kitchen and said "then I hear a voice from the other side of the kitchen saying 'why would anyone make chocolate cake?' (or something like that) "  and at that point Tom asks "Why would anyone say that?"   

 

At which point Katie says, "That's a very good questions, let's ask him!"   So the judges actually prompted the whole thing, up to and including Tom wondering why anyone would say that, when the only person who could answer that was Aaron.  

 

Thanks-- that's what I thought I remembered.

 

Katie wasn't being petty or small. She was being a bit snarky,but who can blame her?

Edited November 14, 2014 by bunnywithanaxe

[archer1267]

I'm trying to remember if there was this much cannon fodder in other seasons. When it's anyone's game, it's more fun to watch. When someone's getting the bulk of the wins, not so much. It's only 5 episodes in - I wonder if Gregory is peaking early, or if he'll be undone by Restaurant Wars, much in the way the very strong Kristen Kish was. I wish there were a couple of other Gregory- or Mei-level contestants on there, a dark horse who could suddenly emerge from the pack. Right now, I don't have a lot of hope.

 

Not sure why they bothered with the whole "cook for 100 people" thing if they didn't show them or their reactions to the food. I think that's the first time I've seen that on Top Chef - a challenge involving a big group of diners, and not bothering with shots of them eating and responding to the food.

Edited November 14, 2014 by archer1267

[Bastet]

Not sure why they bothered with the whole "cook for 100 people" thing if they didn't show them or their reactions to the food. I think that's the first time I've seen that on Top Chef - a challenge involve a big group of diners, and not bothering with shots of them eating and responding to the food.

 

That was rather odd; they generally juxtapose the judges' reactions to dishes with those of the "regular" diners, whether they be in agreement or opposition.

[RealityGal]

 

WRT whether or not the judges are qualified to judge desserts, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.  I don't see any reason to doubt the judges ability to determine what makes a good dessert dish. 

 

As for Katie's comments being comparable to a work situation, I don't think it is.  But I have worked and do work with a lot of people who do a lot of internal trash-talking amongst each other, and in my view, they'd mostly respect Katie's strategy and game for making Aaron look like the totally immature asshole that he is. 

 

ETA: heebiejeebie, I still read you as accusing Katie as "tattling" and that comes with an implied accusation that she is telling tales out of school. I don't agree with that assessment. I don't think she was tattling, I don't think she acted childish, and I don't think she really put herself on Aaron's level.  Instead, what she did is show Aaron why you should never, ever underestimate an opponent.

 

I wouldn't say that the judges can't know what a good dessert is, but I also know what a good dessert is.  I would say that the judges can't give the same in depth analysis to a dessert as what they give to a savory dish.

 

I suppose its a matter of MV, but the people I've worked with would avoid her like the plague, no one wants to be in a culture of trash talking and then have it brought up to the boss later when a feeling has been hurt.  Most times in those industries you are expected to give it as good as you get it, and for that reason you don't need to cry foul to the boss...ever.  And truly, even a lot of bosses I think don't like it and thats why the complainer will normally be assuaged, but almost never promoted.  A boss generally wants you to deal with a personality conflict, figure it out and do your job, not come at them with some personality situation, that takes away from them doing their job.  

 

Not only that, she unnecessarily drew attention to herself for something other than her food.  

 

The easiest way to show that Aaron underestimated her?  All it required was a simple raised eyebrow when the judges gave her the win.  Or even trash talking once they got to the stew room, or in the car ride back.  She hasn't been shown to do any of that when she is around Aaron, which is 95% of the time, which to me says she specifically wanted to wait until a judge was around to air her personality conflict with Aaron instead of putting on her big girl pants and telling him when they were together and without the presence of the judges.

 

Someone said that she simply waited until it had the most impact.  I agree, but I don't think it is a good impact, but Tom didn't seem to give a care about it, and now there is a small seed planted that she complains.  If it comes up again, thats going to start to look like a pattern, even if she is right, and when its a pattern people start thinking the problem might be you.   Its going to start to look like she can't handle things by herself and needs to complain to the judges when she feels like her feelings are hurt.

[RealityGal]

As far as Greg's speaking out is concerned, I never batted an eye.  It didn't strike me as ego, but rather as frustration.  In the previous episode, he was matched up with Aaron and Katsuji and had to keep them from playing war games the entire time.  I felt, in this case, that he'd had it with Aaron.  We all have moments when we speak out, due to frustration, and later wish that maybe we shouldn't have.  During each episode so far, Gregory has accepted wins with total humility and sometimes looked a little embarrassed.  He's been intent on being a better person than he once was, so I took his remark as irritation, not ego.

 

Katie began this season as almost a wallflower.  She's beginning to come out of her shell and cook some daring dishes.  I'm happy to see that she has a little more grit than I thought she had.  Aaron's remarks to her and about her have stung!  She, like Greg, has gone on, putting up with him and his ilk, until she finally saw fit to say a word or two.  I felt that she was entitled to say what she did, if only to pound that obnoxious little squirt a little lower into the ground!  I believe that both Greg and Katie had had it up to their eyeballs and were completely justified in speaking up and saying what each of them said.

I thought Gregory's comment was about how he basically would have saved Aaron from himself and was more directed at how Adam should have taken more control of the situation.  As for Katie, I don't think anything she done has been daring.  She made a chocolate cake with strawberry and sauce.  Hugh called it boring.  There is no grit in complaining in front of the judges, IMO.  If the remarks stung, sting him right back and talk mad shit to him about his stupid scallop noodle.  When he says "who cooks chocolate cake?" say "who the hell cooks a scallop noodle with a meatball?"

 

I don't know that her boring chocolate cake really pounded anyone into the ground, and Tom, for his part, even while sending Aaron home did say that it was a great idea, just one that Aaron couldn't possibly execute.  I think most of the judges, Tom included have a greater level of respect for someone who aims for the fences and fails over someone who simply wants to foul out and get to first base.

[Skeeter22]

It doesn't make any sense to suggest that the judges aren't qualified to judge a dessert. If that were the case, then why have they had dessert challenges on the show? Dessert, cake in particular, has been the downfall of many contestants on this show. Katie took a risk that paid off. That's hardly a cop out. That she managed to kick Aaron on his way out of the door was just the icing on the cake.

[Julia]

One thing we're leaving out is that there's a good amount of sexism in the food world about dessert. Traditionally, the only job women were given in kitchens was patissier (and even so the highest levels of pastry in France are a sausagefest). Which is why you regularly see tools like Aaron trash talk people about dessert, and practically all the female chefs feel the need to point out that they wouldn't recognize a dessert if they tripped over it in an alley.

Even Elizabeth Falkner, whose national reputation came from baking, made a point of saying she was trained as a savory chef when she was on as a judge, and that tool Josh - who actually was a pastry chef - spent all his time posturing about how the only thing real amurrikins cook is slabs of pork. And that's because calling someone in the savory world, male or female, a pastry chef is code for "You don't belong in the kitchen because you have a vagina."

Edited November 14, 2014 by Julia

[rozen]

I agree that Gregory's comment was frustration. I think he wants to win Top Chef, as in beat down every clown standing in his way, while they're cooking their best. It invalidates his performance to see people tripped up because no one could be arsed to go around and taste everything or take care of one another. It's a privileged feeling to have as he's been remarkably consistent, maybe the geese business in the previews will give him some perspective. Mei would certainly  derive no pleasure from beating Gregory on a day he messed up. It's just a hyper type A personality response, I think.

 

I don't know why there's this persistent mythology of dessert being a cop out on Top Chef. Dessert is probably the second highest source of PYKAGs in the game, right behind "not respecting the protein." It makes sense, that as a culinary teacher, Katie's repertoire is mostly traditional dishes. She does lots of adventurous stuff, like the pine nut baked beans, but when she has time to pay attention to one dish, or a few dishes. For crazier challenges, she goes to her rolodex. Everyone else's rolodex just happened to be formed at specialized restaurants. She made an excellent, but boring, cake. She could probably annihilate quite a few Top Chef finalists who mucked up their own dessert courses.

 

Imo, "handling it like adults" doesn't work when the bully refuses you to acknowledge you're on the same plane of being. You have to go drag them up in front of people they admire, or will be cowed by, to get any change in behavior. No amount of arguing on Katie's part was going to not make her a boring culinary school teacher from bumfuckistan with a vagina. She could have put out Mei's dish and he'd stay steak is bullshit. They were agitating for some drama between them anyway, she didn't even bring it up until they asked her. How is answering a direct question not being an adult? 

 

Gregory could have reigned Aaron in because A) He's a good chef and B) He's  a dude. I would bet good money that if Mei did the same thing, Aaron would have a conniption fit, because she is missing one of those two things. You can't deal logically with a guy who doesn't seem women as fully human. 

 

Keriann is still coming for Stacey, even when she smoked her on the chicken while her sad little side was roundly reviled. She can go home now, talk about crabs in a barrel. Michelle (?) has some self-esteem issues. Don't care where you've worked, though I suspect all of your mentors would have some things to say about that gazpacho you put out. 

 

Edit: Dude, I need to see Katsuji's wife. I just do. Does she have sainthood?

Edited November 14, 2014 by rozen

[JTMacc99]

I still don't think there was anything necessarily wrong with Gregory chiming in, but his motivation was murkier to me this time.  

Yeah. I think murky is a good word.  And my gut feeling is that we've got an editing issue here.  I am guessing that the discussion of "who was a team player" and "who was looking out for herself/himself" went on for A LOT longer than what we saw.  It's a good topic, and with several instances of people choosing to do one or the other during the episode, I am pretty sure the producers made sure they got some good comments at judges table.

 

So did Gregory just chime in, or were Tom and the group beating the topic to death until Gregory finally chimed in with the good sound bite for the producers?

Edited November 14, 2014 by JTMacc99

[leighdear]

 

Yeah. I think murky is a good word.  And my gut feeling is that we've got an editing issue here.  I am guessing that the discussion of "who was a team player" and "who was looking out for herself/himself" went on for A LOT longer than what we saw.

Padma & Tom have both mentioned that Judges Table can go on for HOURS, as opposed to the 2-3 minutes we see during the broadcast.  Unless somebody fesses up to the actual circumstances behind Gregory's commentary, we really don't have any way of knowing.  

 

Hugh's blog on this episode amused me greatly, but then Hugh does that himself for me.  He TOTALLY downplays his comment of the season to Aaron about bringing scallop noodles to war. 

[bunnywithanaxe]

Re: trashtalking in the kitchen.

One of the benefits of being an unaccompanied 40- something woman at a restaurant that they seat you by the kitchen door a lot. Thus, I wind up hearing a lot. And I can't remember hearing anything coming out of a kitchen that wasn't brief and strictly task- related.

That's one thing that always bugged me about Ramsey's first restaurant show, whatever it was called-- he would spend five minutes locking a cook down while he ransacked his inner thesaurus for every nasty name in it, and meanwhile the guy's risotto was scalding. Which made the concurrent tirade about food quality hypocritical and stupid, imo.

The real kitchen conversations I have seen are terse and task- oriented, and in the better restaurants they are encouraging and vivacious. A bustling, popular restaurant simply should't have time for personal beatdowns.

Edited November 14, 2014 by bunnywithanaxe

[hammaboo]

I wonder if some of the Katie frustration is that she has used dessert as her go-to in some of the challenges?  I mean, we aren't very far into the season, but she did the thing at the baseball field with the popcorn and now cake.  I could actually see the judges getting frustrated with her if she skews towards dessert every time the challenge is "hard". 

 

How did Aaron's broth get dumped?  I somehow missed how it happened. 

[phoenix780]

I didn't really get how the broth got dumped either, other than some kind of karmic response from the universe.  I'm surprised he didn't use that more as an excuse for failing, maybe because the judges focused on his noodles.  

 

With Katie- I don't get the feeling she's all that calculating, and I didn't see it as her being a tattletale.  I think she was just interacting with the judges, and since Aaron's comment is what happened, that's what she gave them.  Wasn't she the one who also started crying about her father in front of the judges?  She seems to just...talk.  

 

I hadn't even thought of Gregory's comment coming from left field because of editing, but that makes a ton of sense.  I wonder if he'll have an arc where he gets a little too confident and has to reign it in. 

[Totale]

I didn't really get how the broth got dumped either, other than some kind of karmic response from the universe.  I'm surprised he didn't use that more as an excuse for failing, maybe because the judges focused on his noodles.  

 

He tried, but he should have shut it.  Once he told the judges he'd just served them the equivalent of instant coffee they couldn't say anything good about it.  If he hadn't mentioned it, they might have said "the dish wasn't that good, but the dashi saved it".