S04.E07: Honor Among Thieves

[AimingforYoko]

Shaw risks being detected by Samaritan when she joins a team of international thieves to monitor the latest POI. Meanwhile, Finch and Root go on a dangerous sabotage mission.

That ending: Ruh-Roh.

Too much fanservice this ep. Root as a French nanny, Root in Shaw's ear during her 'date' with Tomas, Shaw in that dress.

I thought for sure Tomas was dead.

 

[merylinkid]

Shaw's got a boyfriend.   Shaw's got a boyfriend.    Maybe they can have booty calls in some country that doesn't have an extradition treaty.

 

Shaw has officially entered creepy territory.   Okay, she was always creepy but she has reached a new level with this episode.   It was appalling that she was a nanny.   No psycho should be looking after children.   Then her clear jealously over Shaw having a good time "No one should hurt you ... except me."    Ick.   I don't get the vibe that Shaw is into B & D, just strong sex.   But nooooo, Root had to go there.   Good for Shaw for shutting her off.

 

Wish Tomas had joined the team.   But looks like they might have an insider on the relevant side now.   Crimson6 is having his own doubts then he finds out that Shaw is alive.   Whoa.

 

Poor guy, he just wanted to get his computers to poor kids.   But nasty Samaritan had to use it as a cover to monitor more people.   Bye bye computers.   

[stealinghome]

HOLY CRAP did they just take Root/Shaw canon???? My mind is blown and my shipper heart is overflowing with glee and squee, because !!!!!! "That could take all night." DAMN STRAIGHT IT COULD. As we look at each other and smile like adorable idiots. Gah.

 

Second: HOLY CRAP Samaritan is about to blow Shaw's cover!!!! Holy smokes. I expected someone on the team to get caught eventually, of course, but 7 episodes into the season? Bold! The writers aren't messing around. I suddenly see the midseason finale in much sharper focus, methinks. And just...damn. Damn. I'm on the edge of my seat suddenly. I want it NOW.

 

As is obvious from the total flail, I really liked this episode--it was FUN, and did a lot (in a very short amount of time) for the mythology too. Clearly an episode to grease the wheels for the rest of the season, but they made it really engaging all on its own to boot (which is surprising for me, because heist-y type episodes and movies aren't usually my thing). After a rough first four episodes, it finally feels like this show is back. I *loved* that Control got name-dropped tonight and the show has returned to showing the government, Relevant side of things--that's always been one of the most intriguing elements of the show, to me, and I'm looking forward to Control and her cronies coming into the Samaritan storyline in a bigger way. And I liked that the male operative was having serious reservations about the new protocol while his partner was all "we don't get paid to think"...definitely shades of Shaw and her old partner 2.0. In fact, I liked Shaw's junior agents in general and wouldn't mind seeing them again--I like to think they wouldn't introduce agents from Shaw's past and not explore that further, especially if Control is going to come back.

 

Lionel yelling at John that it's not cool that he asks him to get into shootouts with government assassins was HILARIOUS! Oh Fusco. Don't ever change. I really liked his scene with the female thief, too, the former drug user. Fusco can be pretty scary when he wants to be.

 

Tomas was HOT and I would not at all mind him coming back again. Also, I did think the actor did very well with a character that was pretty cardboard on paper.

 

Samaritan gets creepier by the episode. Spying on a bunch of kids. Ick.

[benteen]

I can see Root becoming one of those nannies who gets arrested for shaking an infant too hard.

 

Very good episode once again and things got real interesting when the Relevant list (particularly this old protégé of Shaw) got involved.  Lionel being brought in for the raid and complaining about it was awesome.  I liked the mission Finch and Root were on and the questions it raised.

 

Yeah, they are leaning heavily towards Root and Shaw.

[janeta]

"Are you *trying* to make me kill you??" Hee!

And once again, TV writers forget that gold is, ya know, heavy; Shaw's tough, but those ingots she so casually tossed in the river probably weighed at least 8 pounds each, and there was a bagful of 'em. Oi.

Was it just me, or was the looping in the first half of the ep *really* bad? Dunno why they needed to do all that ADR...

Lost track of who was doing what to whom in the second half; will have to catch the rerun.

[Xantar]

Food for thought: Harold asked how far they were willing to do wrong in the name of right. If they had killed the congressman last season, they wouldn't be asking that question now. I'm not saying they should have, but it's nice to see the show wrestle with consequences.

[Jlina]

I get really strong vibes that Shaw likes sex with men, but torture by anyone's okay.  Mostly, it seems to me like she humors Root and always has.

 

I'm really annoyed at Harold's naivete!  See, here's the deal Harold since they've made you really dumb this episode. The tablets may have been all good and harmless but they are still a way of monitoring everyone in New York (at this point) and then, they can be hacked.  Or not, the info will be there for Samaritan god; and all it has to do is pick the next family member up of the nearest street corner camara.

 

So, ummm, nope.  It was doing GOOD to do good.  Cannot believe they have done this to you.

 

Man, that agent was also naive; thinking he could delete something from the mother ship, but then he probably doesn't get the scope of it all.  When Samaritan identified Root's "gait" was off it was amazing, in a scary way. 

 

Looks like it's going to bite Shaw (my favorite) in the ass at some point, but I will hope not.  Dayum, the guy may have been hot but Shaw was hotter :)

Edited November 12, 2014 by Jlina

[merylinkid]

Oh yeah, also loved Harold deadpanning about the felonies being committed.   Okay commit the felony.    Samaritan may not have found us, but that's another felony to your name.   Hahahahahahahaha.   At least someone acknowledges they are breaking the law with their actions.    Sure ends justify the means and all, but still  - FELONIES.

[thuganomics85]

The strangest thing for me has to be Nick E. Tarabay (Shaw's former trainee) playing someone with a conscious.  I mean, yes, he is working for the "relevents", but he seems to be questioning what they are doing, and let Shaw go (although, it looks like that might still bite them in the ass.)  After Spartacus, Burn Notice, Believe, and, well, pretty much everything I've seen him in, that was a sight to see. I just kept thinking "When did Ashur suddenly get it a soul?"

 

So, we got a Shaw-centric episode this time.  Yeah, a master thief would be her ideal man.  Still, I though they had good chemistry, so I wouldn't be against a return (I mean, Reese use to have Zoe before Paige Turco went off to The 100).  Of course, the show is totally pushing the fan service for Root/Shaw, so we'll see if they'll ever pull the trigger or not.  Doubt it, but, hey, they could surprise me.  Right now, it still feels like Shaw is just being playful about it, and isn't taking it seriously.  Root though... well, she turn into evil stalker any second.

 

Finch and Root having to take down a good man's vision, because it was helping Samaritan, was an interesting B-story, but Finch is really going to have to accept they might need to keep doing this, in order to win.

 

Loved that Fusco helped Reese in the shootout, completely with a ski mask and everything!  Come on, guys! Let Fusco be a full team member, now! 

[Julia]

Food for thought: Harold asked how far they were willing to do wrong in the name of right. If they had killed the congressman last season, they wouldn't be asking that question now. I'm not saying they should have, but it's nice to see the show wrestle with consequences.

 

Except, Harold? Who are you asking?

[benteen]

Also laughed at Root's "Do you really think I'd let anyone hurt you.  Well, except for me."

[stealinghome]

Tonight had a lot of really funny lines. I also enjoyed Reese's "She's got you there, Harold"; Finch's "Children? I hope they're not yours"; and Shaw's "It'd be a shame to see you try" to John. Actually, pretty much everything John and Shaw said to each other tonight was gold.

 

I don't find it out of character for Finch to be agonizing over the loss of the good that those tablets, in a Samaritan-free world, could have done, or wondering how far they're willing to go to do good (and if it's still good). Finch is the one who couldn't kill the congressman last season, and thereby doomed the world to an active, leash-less Samaritan. He knew that refusing to kill that congressman would unleash Samaritan, and he still couldn't pull the trigger. Of course he's the one who's agonizing now over the tablets.

[atua]

I'm really annoyed at Harold's naivete!  See, here's the deal Harold since they've made you really dumb this episode. The tablets may have been all good and harmless but they are still a way of monitoring everyone in New York (at this point) and then, they can be hacked.  Or not, the info will be there for Samaritan god; and all it has to do is pick the next family member up of the nearest street corner camara.

 

So, ummm, nope.  It was doing GOOD to do good.  Cannot believe they have done this to you.

Naiveté? Harold is the opposite of that this episode. He acknowledges the necessity of this war against Samaritan, whilst never losing sight of the cost and sacrifices made in its name. His ability to reflect on their missions and think critically about the direction of the team stands in stark contrast to Samaritan's methods. If Harold can unthinkingly do whatever it takes to win, then how is he any different from Samaritan and Greer? Because the "bad guys" like Greer genuinely believe that they're doing the right thing by humanity, and that Samaritan provides law and order in this chaotic world. The difference between The Machine & Samaritan isn't in intent, but in their methods.

[Jlina]

 

whatever it takes to win,

 

I am not at all sure Greer cares about right or wrong, only commerce. And Control definitely doesn't.  What I was saying is that there was no reason to agonize over the loss of  twelve million dollars in tablets as spyware, there really was no upside to that.  So his continued lamenting seems redundant imo. 

 

I know I am perhaps the *only* critic of the show on the boards, but it does bug me that his critical thinking does not lead him to the inevitable:  there is no other action to take.

 

Unless, as someone mentioned, the FIRST action would've been taken.  To me that's dumbing him down.  Plus it's odd to me that he only ever has these existentialist asides with Root of all people. 

[spottedreptile]

I'm getting pretty tired of the nudge/nudge wink/wink stuff with Root/Shaw. It's  puerile in my book. All this double entendre stuff because the networks are too coy to deal with a genuine relationship. Either let the two of them get it on, or stop with the sly remarks each week because CBS doesn't want to go Too Faaaarrrrr and offend the sponsors. 

[Izeinwinter]

Actually, I suspect the tablets may have been entirely beside the point - That was a floor full of universal fabricators - The tablets were likely just a cover for building the factory - A useful cover - Better educated kids it can keep an eye on might suit Samaritan to a T, but I think the main point was to set up an automated fabrication facility in New York so it could run off gadgets locally to it's own specifications. 

[atua]

I am not at all sure Greer cares about right or wrong, only commerce. And Control definitely doesn't.  What I was saying is that there was no reason to agonize over the loss of  twelve million dollars in tablets as spyware, there really was no upside to that.  So his continued lamenting seems redundant imo.

If you believe Greer is only after money, then we have very different opinions on the character. Money is the McMansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after ten years, power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. That's not a mistake Greer would make. As for Control, she's ruthless and misguided, but I believe that she believes that she's a patriot and isn't acting solely out of self interest. And I don't think Harold was mourning the loss of the money per se, but the fact that Team Machine had to stop a good man's charitable endeavour because his project's been perverted by Samaritan.

I know I am perhaps the *only* critic of the show on the boards, but it does bug me that his critical thinking does not lead him to the inevitable:  there is no other action to take.

 

Unless, as someone mentioned, the FIRST action would've been taken.  To me that's dumbing him down.  Plus it's odd to me that he only ever has these existentialist asides with Root of all people.

Whereas I see Harold's scepticism and questioning as an ongoing process to refine Team Machine's methods to be a positive, even healthy thing. There is meaning in thinking through the moral dilemmas that the team faces and to push himself to think outside the box to try to come up with a better solution instead of accepting it's inevitability because it's the most expedient path. In a team with two ex-black ops assassins and a borderline psycho, I'm grateful that there's at least one person that thinks about the moral dimensions of what the team's doing. Edited November 12, 2014 by atua

[Jlina]

"Commerce is the whole system of an economy that constitutes an environment for business." Wikipedia, et. al.  I think of Greer as very interested in the environment of business - his business at this point, although I believe he will become irrelevant.

 

I can see why someone would be glad Harold is the conscience - but he's telling this to the psychopath which is an enigma, eh? 

[atua]

IMO, money is the means by which Greer obtains power, not the other way around. And if Harold is lecturing Root about the moral niceties of their mission, then it's because she's the one who needs to hear it most.

[bros402]

Man, that agent was also naive; thinking he could delete something from the mother ship, but then he probably doesn't get the scope of it all.  When Samaritan identified Root's "gait" was off it was amazing, in a scary way. 

 

When did it detect her gait was off?

 

btw since you put gait in quotes, I am going to take a shot in the dark and guess you don't know what it means? It means how someone walks - a tandem gait is heel-toe walking.

[atua]

When did it detect her gait was off?

Spoiler'd for image.

Edited November 12, 2014 by atua

[Netfoot]

And if Harold is lecturing Root about the moral niceties of their mission, then it's because she's the one who needs to hear it most.

 

And possibly she is (or Harold believes she is) the only one able to appreciate those niceties.

 

When did it detect her gait was off?

 

Almost immediately.  Before she was able to fully reenter the building.  (Frankly, I was impressed!)

[stealinghome]

And if Harold is lecturing Root about the moral niceties of their mission, then it's because she's the one who needs to hear it most.

Yes, it's consistent with his attempts to reform her. And it continues their dialogue, albeit indirectly, about The Machine and her morality in 4x05.

Also because, dramatically speaking, Root's by far the most interesting member of Team Machine for Harold to be having these exchanges with. Shaw would be like "get over it man, we do what we gotta do"--for her, the answer is so obvious that the debate is nonsensical. She just doesn't think about morality like that. And--and I mean this in the nicest possible way--John is too whipped to ever really make a strong case against what Harold thinks. He always folds when Harold's involved. Plus, more than anyone on Team Machine, John shares Harold's doubts, so it would be like preaching to the choir.

[SnarkyTart]

Holy catz, Adrian Bellani (Tomas) is one man who is very easy on the eyes.  That was also the most chemistry I've seen Sarah Shahi have with anyone.  Sorry, Root, I'm almost positive that Shaw doesn't play for your team, not even as a switch hitter. 

 

This was another great episode for me.  Weaving Control and the relevant numbers into the plot was a welcome development.  I'm hoping we get to see more of that and less of Greer or the Brotherhood.

 

I still wonder when/if we will hear at least a mention of Finch having told the Machine it was time to have a talk, and whether or not that talk has already happened. 

 

Finch's conflicted feelings about the computer guy losing his tablet project was a good call-back to last week when he was feeling conflicted about the poll analyst guy being left with the belief that his calculations and predictions didn't work.

 

In my fantasy going forward, Shaw's identity is compromised.  She's captured by Samaritan/Greer.  Root will somehow sacrifice her own life to save the life of the woman she loves.  It will all be very sad and we will cry.  But, we will finally be rid of the Root character. 

[Julia]

What I was saying is that there was no reason to agonize over the loss of twelve million dollars in tablets as spyware, there really was no upside to that. So his continued lamenting seems redundant imo.

Harold's explicit reason for being disturbed was that the tablets, despite their assumptions, were not full of spyware. They were educational tools which could have served to help lift millions of underserved children out of poverty, computer literacy being one of the gaps in education between middle-class children and poor children which educators feel is a factor in future success.

In fact, this particular storyline was an only slightly veiled retelling of the controversy over Christopher Whittle's in-school networks, which would have provided technology to poor schools at the cost of showing children explicitly commercial content under the aegis of the schools.

By sidelining the inventor the way they did, Harold and Root ensured that those children were not going to get another chance at the technology (something they were also explicit about). Harold simply mirrored Whittle's critics by saying that while they felt at the time that the risks were too great, they mourned the loss of opportunity for those children.

Which, JMO, is ample reason for someone who earned his place in the world through a computer to mourn the damage done to millions of children. I would even say that it requires less of a suspension of disbelief than most of the plot points in this tortured arc.

Not sure how something done once can be redundant.

I know I am perhaps the *only* critic of the show on the boards

If you read here for a while, you'll discover quite a few people taking issue with various aspects of this show. They just like us to be polite about it.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Julia

[Princess Lucky]

Harold's explicit reason for being disturbed was that the tablets, despite their assumptions, were not full of spyware. They were educational tools which could have served to help lift millions of underserved children out of poverty, computer literacy being one of the gaps in education between middle-class children and poor children which educators feel is a factor in future success.

Indeed. I don't know exactly what Harold meant by "maybe 1 line of suspicious code" but he was clear, I thought, that there was no full-scale spyware (hijacking cameras etc). He said he thought this might have been an even more insidious move by Samaritan (being nice to children will ingratiate you with their parents. I assume the new puppet Governor would reap the direct benefits). So, basically, Harold and co. deprived kids of access to technology (something he cares deeply about, as a teen hacker etc), not to mention education, for a somewhat vague (though real) future "threat" that wasn't even that direct. It obviously had to be done, but I can see why he was bummed out about it, especially after seeing the poor guy who had made all the plans. I don't consider Harold naive, but I do consider him a bit of a hypocrite. I've accepted this as one of his character traits and I like seeing it consistently pop up, if you will.

 

Reading about criticism of the show, let me just say this: are we supposed to believe the hotel's vault was, what, at ground level? With a direct line to the outside door? And there was no one there at the vault other than the puny concierge (though I guess I can buy that the robbers took care of that). Still, I found that was poorly thought-out action-wise. I just don't see it. You can yank a safe straight through a door? How does that work? There are no stairs, the cable won't catch anywhere, there are no other doors, the vault is so close to a building exit? Eh. I also didn't like that Shaw left the vials behind but I can understand it. If she had grabbed them while under fire and a shot hit a vial the virus would be released. Still, sloppy. That was a deadly virus they left behind.

 

I've never been a fan of heist movies to be honest and I haven't particularly cared for the heist episodes of PoI, and this was no exception. I did think the Tomas actor was hot and he had nice chemistry with Sarah Shahi, but there were a few clunky lines and some less than well-thought-out plans and, well. I did love Root as a nanny (especially her accent and how she just ditched the kid. Queen!) and Reese had some funny lines but eh. The repercussions of the episode are more exciting than the episode itself.

 

Of course, the episode made up for it with the inclusion (or re-integration, rather) of the Relevant side. That was unexpected (especially in a heist episode) and so very welcome. We had an irrelevant-turned-relevant number handled by US operatives who knew Shaw, and the whole thing was monitored by Samaritan who is looking for Shaw. That put things in perspective. Our team is hunted by everyone. There was even a Control shout-out, and I loved it. We know Samaritan is handling those cases now, but we actually got to see it. I loved that the operative Shaw trained had questions about the new regime and, in the end, he was more comfortable with Shaw having the vials than he was with giving them away to some unknown contact. That's one thing Samaritan can't control. Human beings, their critical thinking, their instincts and their relationships (involving pre-established trust). Still, it was chilling that the younger operative was so much more easily convinced or she just cared less. That's true too and it's working in Samaritan's favour.

 

Lastly, Root and Shaw, sitting in a tree. Love them! Shaw likes to flirt (and we saw that tonight in spades) but she'll always come home to her Root. And she made sure to tell Root that. Those smiles were everything. I loved how, even though Shaw flirted intensely and Root kept dissing the guy, it was all in good fun because they never really doubted each other. Aw. The love. The love they'll be demonstrating "all night" (by the way, I choose to take this as confirmation they were about to do it because this show is chaste and this is as close to sex it has ever gotten, see Reese and Zoe).

 

So, this whole season has been a contest between Reese and Shaw, over whose cover would be compromised first. It seems that Shaw has won (i.e. lost). And she doesn't even know it. I assume Samaritan can put the whole thing together; they'll see her face (or even her gait! Chilling.), put a name to it and match it to the cosmetics sales girl who moonlights as a robber and who joined Tomas' crew. That's huge. And, of course, she can lead Samaritan to the rest of  team Machine.

 

I still feel like the show is setting up Shaw's death. Which. NO. I guess we'll know it's coming if she ever kisses Root onscreen (because you know she is kissing her offscreen. A lot.).

Edited November 12, 2014 by Princess Lucky

[kwnyc]

 

I still feel like the show is setting up Shaw's death. Which. NO. I guess we'll know it's coming if she ever kisses Root onscreen

ARGH! I hope you aren't right, but yeah, that does feel like some foreshadowing. Or, they could be wrongfooting us and they kill someone else. Which will have me in tatters as well. BUT NOT BEAR! THEY CAN NEVER KILL BEAR! 

[Riful]

Woah. The show really went there with Root and Shaw big time. Are we suppose to infer that they been sleeping together for months (or at least have already) now given that zip tie, a hood and 10 hours to kill in a safe house line? Also the expressions on their faces when Root said it could take all night. I was expecting Shaw to look all grumpy cat but instead they both ended up looking rather pleased, so I guess it is left open to interpretation though at this point it is pretty hard to interpret their interaction in a platonic manner lol.

 

Was great to see Shaw admitting that she cares, despite her quick backtracking. Root having deeper feelings is pretty damn obvious with how her face fell (A+ for Amy Acker acting there), and I don't believe for a second that Shaw doesn't share them to a degree. Like sure Shaw you were just talking to Root to get help with Harold's instructions because Harold was surely nowhere near you to ask.

 

Loved loved loved the inclusion of the relevant side. It just made everything so much more intense. It was also great seeing Team Machine being more proactive in their fight against Samaritan. I do not however agree with Harold thinking it was potentially bad what they did. Ok he found one line of suspecious code but so what? That does not mean Samaritan can not put out software updates in the future with some bad shit in them. Also it would still put eyes and ears in many homes.

 

Two things bugged immensely in this episode and that is how easy the last two hiests were. The hotel thing was dumb but the place that was supposed to be the most secure eva! seemed laughable easy to rob with about a dozen of intruders milling around inside undetected for quite some time. Shouldn't there be like 20 guards with need to check in every 5-10 minutes, multiple security checks, alarms and so on? Instead there was like 2 guards, few cameras that were looped and a few doors one could crack by hand in 10 seconds. Also the whole vault thing was so dumb, but I guess the writer's did it so Tomas could show off his skills. The last 20 seconds made up for the stupidity somewhat.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Riful

[Gregg247]

I was laughing at all the effort to stop those free tablets from getting into the hands of all those school children so that Samaritan could screw them up somehow.  Some school district (in Georgia, I think) tried giving free laptops to all these kids a few years ago, at great taxpayer cost.  Half never made it to the students (stolen/sold off by crooked administrators).  Most of the ones that did were immediately sold by the parents for cash for "other things".  Almost none were used as expected.

 

Sorry, Samaritan, your Master Plan was destined to fail, with or without outside interference.  Good to see that Samaritan is just as inefficient a government entity as the rest of them! lol

[stealinghome]

Like sure Shaw you were just talking to Root to get help with Harold's instructions because Harold was surely nowhere near you to ask.

Also, I'm throwing out that Shaw is actually a doctor. She no more needed Root's help to "translate" basic medical procedures and instructions than Bear needs help shredding Harold's students' midterms.

[Netfoot]

The whole business with the tablets being 3D printed was silly.  Why spend $12M on 3D printers to 'print' plastic, metal and glass?  Is that even possible?  I don't think you can 3D print electronic components or LCDs, etc.  Even if you could, 3D printing is a slow, expensive process best suited to prototyping, not mass production.  Far more efficient and cheaper to have the tablets made by slave labour in the third world!   So, are we to think that was a weak spot in the plot?  Or was Samaritan less interested in a bunch of tablets, and more interested in controlling a warehouse full of 3D printers?

 

It will all be very sad and we will cry.  But, we will finally be rid of the Root character. 

 

Oh, I hope not!

[Trillium]

I think Finch was very aware that Samaritan would use those tablets as a weapon but his issue is that once again they completely ruined this guy with a good an noble ambition and could not tell him why or explain things. I'm glad they are exploring the dilemma that technology brings. It's a great tool, but one that can be dangerous in wrong hands.

Really enjoyed the POI. He and Shaw reminded me of the first time Zoe was on. Wouldn't mind at all seeing him again but they seem to be pushing Root and Shaw at the same time. And I agre I don't th we'll ever actually see anything with those two since they kept Reese and Zoe all off camera too. (I miss Zoe. Having watched seasons 1-3 over July and August she's still fresh in my mind. Hoping since The 100 is a 13 episode season they can get her sometime later this season)

I also enjoy Shaw's trainee and his trust of Her. Although I am sure he has sealed his doom deleting that footage and possibly one of Team Machine's as well.

On a lighter note, Lionel killed the few lines he had. Reese's nonchalance on being shot at by highly trained assassins with kill orders and his WTF! reaction was hilarious.

[Boundary]

I still wonder when/if we will hear at least a mention of Finch having told the Machine it was time to have a talk, and whether or not that talk has already happened. 

 

The talk has happened, the Machine sent Root to Finch with instructions to help him with whatever he wanted. That makes it two episodes in a row now which imply that the cooperation between Finch and the Machine is absolute. Finch is yet to take full advantage of this situation, though.

 

I'm not sure Root and Shaw are doing it already. Harold, and possibly the other  team members, are aware of Root's feelings and I think Shaw was just flirting with her. If something happens between those two, we'll see it onscreen - at least the lead up to it, and it won't be coy. This will be the first intra-team romance, it deserves proper attention!

[stealinghome]

I was thinking about the episode this morning, and I realized that I'm getting a strong 'The Dark Knight' vibe from Finch especially this season. "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"; "You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time! But you were wrong. The world is cruel." And it's interesting that after the latter line, Batman says "We chose to act. We three"--kind of like how the Finch/Reese/Shaw trio didn't act in 'Death Benefit.' And then they go on to talk about how Dent was targeted to fall because he was the best of the three of them....

 

I wonder if Harold is headed to a really dark place this season, and Reese (and, perhaps, The Machine?) will have to pull him out and/or renew his faith?

[merylinkid]

 

This will be the first intra-team romance

Technically Carter and John were the first intra-team romance.   But we didn't find out they loved each other until she died.   Which bugged me because there was NO HINT of anything that deep before that.   Sure, they had deep respect for each other and cared for each other.   But twu wuv?   No.

 

On the other hand, I don't need to see intra-team romance.   This is about a band of intrepid heroes fighting the good fight to save "irrelevant" people because no one is irrelevant and fighting against Big Brother Government.   It is not "let's see everyone's love life."

[tessaray]

 

Technically Carter and John were the first intra-team romance.   But we didn't find out they loved each other until she died.   Which bugged me because there was NO HINT of anything that deep before that.   Sure, they had deep respect for each other and cared for each other.   But twu wuv?   No.

 

I haven't had a chance to see the episode yet - it's killing me.  :-) 

 

But John/Joss I put in the "could have been" column.  When she died, I don't think that Reese lost his 'twu wuv' but the chance that they might have become something more to each other.  They seemed to be playing up his unspoken feelings for her in the episodes prior.  Or maybe it was just me.  :-)  I'm not a shipper, so I don't tend to automatically go there.  I just appreciated JC's acting. 

 

There's something about when someone close to you dies, if there was any sort of complicated relationship with unresolved issues (good or bad), it can just gut you because in an instant the world changes.  You will never get a chance to change anything.  In a funny way, it's a minor parallel with not killing the Congressman.  The actions you don't take and the impact those choices have... 

Edited November 12, 2014 by tessaray

[Helena Dax]

If Shaw gets killed I'm going to be really pissed. I think she might be my favourite character in the show right now and I'm  not ready to watch her die and stop enjoying all her awesome scenes with Reese, Root, Bear and the others. Speaking of awesome scenes with Root, I've always though Root was a lesbian -and someone who despises the male population in general- and Shaw, straight or bi. There could really be something going on between them, but it could be just flirting. And I think they're going to let us believe whatever we want, like they did with Reese and Zoe.

 

I liked Tomas, although I suspect the writers made up his surname XD He had a lot of chemistry with Shaw and I'd like to see him again. 

 

Ashur! But he's one  of the good guys here. I wonder if he'll join the team or he'll be one of the casualties. Or both. Anyway, it was nice of him to let Shaw go. 

 

Reese didn't do much this episode, but his WTF face every time Shaw made a comment about Tomas was hilarious. 

[DrLar]

The whole business with the tablets being 3D printed was silly.  Why spend $12M on 3D printers to 'print' plastic, metal and glass?  Is that even possible?  I don't think you can 3D print electronic components or LCDs, etc.  Even if you could, 3D printing is a slow, expensive process best suited to prototyping, not mass production.  Far more efficient and cheaper to have the tablets made by slave labour in the third world!   So, are we to think that was a weak spot in the plot?  Or was Samaritan less interested in a bunch of tablets, and more interested in controlling a warehouse full of 3D printers?

 

 

Oh, I hope not!

 

Absolutely agree on this, I don't see how a 3D printer can do transistors, CPUs, LCD's, power supplies, etc and assemble them together, maybe only the cases and that's it, epic fail on this part

[Bella]

Absolutely agree on this, I don't see how a 3D printer can do transistors, CPUs, LCD's, power supplies, etc and assemble them together, maybe only the cases and that's it, epic fail on this part

 

I do some work for NASA, and one of the dilemmas they have with the possibility of 3D printing in space is that the printers themselves are fragile. Are you going to spend $2 million to develop a machine that will then create three items worth $500,000 each, after which the printer will break irrevocably? In space? And there's the weight issue to consider with launching the printer and raw materials into space, but that doesn't relate to the show.

 

The bottom line is that the technology has a long way to go yet. A very long way to go.

[Julia]

What 3D printers have been very successful in printing is guns. Just putting that out there.

[stealinghome]

But John/Joss I put in the "could have been" column.  When she died, I don't think that Reese lost his 'twu wuv' but the chance that they might have become something more to each other.  They seemed to be playing up his unspoken feelings for her in the episodes prior.  Or maybe it was just me.  :-)  I'm not a shipper, so I don't tend to automatically go there.  I just appreciated JC's acting.

I agree. I don't really ship Carter/Reese either, so for me, the poignancy of Carter's death where Reese is concerned is precisely the "what if," the potential that was lost, the chances in life you can't get back.

 

I don't think they're going to kill Shaw precisely because they're putting her in so much danger right now. It's too obvious. I do, however, think Shaw is going to be in very serious danger--and perhaps very seriously wounded, like "flatlined on the table and had to be revived with paddles" seriously wounded--quite soon. And I suspect that that's going to lead to Root's massive disillusionment with The Machine that Prophets hinted at so strongly.

[atua]

Also, I'm throwing out that Shaw is actually a doctor. She no more needed Root's help to "translate" basic medical procedures and instructions than Bear needs help shredding Harold's students' midterms.

Speaking of Shaw as a doctor, I thought "MARV" was a missed opportunity. I recognised the acronym from when I was reading about Ebola recently, and much like Ebola, its high fatality rate and similar dramatic haemorrhagic symptoms make it rather memorable. If any one was going to know about the vials before Harold googled it, it was Shaw. Edited November 12, 2014 by atua

[shura]

Didn't she flunk out of the medical school on account of her poor bedside manner?

[Boundary]

Technically Carter and John were the first intra-team romance.   But we didn't find out they loved each other until she died.   Which bugged me because there was NO HINT of anything that deep before that.   Sure, they had deep respect for each other and cared for each other.   But twu wuv?   No.

 

Because of the No Hint situation, I tend to think nothing was happening behind the scenes, although during her last few episodes they were sort of hinting at the potential there. However, even that is prone to misinterpretation because Carter's own love interest died and left her diving into darkness alone, with Reese trying to rescue her. Reese, after all, had been in that situation before. His grief after she died was definitely two-fold: they had gotten personally fond of each other and secondly, he had ultimately failed to rescue her. The third, potentially, is that he had fallen for her but I have my doubts about that, as I've outlined. 

 

Reese didn't do much this episode, but his WTF face every time Shaw made a comment about Tomas was hilarious. 

When Shaw was first introduced I was sure they were marking her as John's love interest. However, they've done a brilliant job of creating a lovely brother/sister vibe, which is why the Tomas jokes were so funny, in a typically understated way. John, and the others, however, aren't making jokes about the potential Root romance, which says something ...

[Jlina]

 

When did it detect her gait was off?

As she reintered the door the woman had just come out of the machine said that on the bottom of it's readout box.  I put gait in quotes because I was quoting the machine :)  I think the fact that it analyzed her walk in less than what .07 seconds is impressive.

 

Not sure how something done once can be redundant.

Harold's been lamenting since they were in the forest, or at least since he re-joined however prodded and pulled he was the team, hasn't he?  I do read these boards often, and POI has an incredible loyal following :)  I haven't liked it nearly as much since Carter died.

 

No, scratch that.  Harold has been lamenting since the first 13 attempts to bond with AI tried to kill him, so this is just him being him, I get that now.  I've always wondered why he even made the machine.

 

The idea that he hated ruining that man's vision is totally compelling, vs adding all the other politics and 3D capabilities into it.  I guess I was so annoyed by the guy's lack of attention to his son run amok that I kind of wrote him off.  Thanks for that.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Jlina

[stealinghome]

Didn't she flunk out of the medical school on account of her poor bedside manner?

I thought she was in her residency? At any rate, the guy who kicked her out went out of his way to say that she was a brilliant doctor and very technically gifted, so it wasn't a lack of knowledge thing that led her to be kicked out.

[Mars477]

Resident does not mean infectious disease expert.

[basiltherat]

I enjoyed the banter between Root and Shaw (and previously between John and Zoe) and don't need to see into their lives.  This is not a rom-com or a soap.  A little flirting is fine, but now back to the action.

 

I never thought I would like Shaw, but now I look forward to her.  She was a Mary Sue the same way Carter was one the first season.  Once their character is explored, you understand them better.  Even with Root!

 

Bring on more Bear!

[CoderLady]

Resident does not mean infectious disease expert.

 

Right. It's a specialty just like any other, probably more so because of the research component. I do think Shaw would be the best team member to deal with it, though.

[stealinghome]

Right--I'm pretty sure Shaw would be more familiar with infectious disease protocols and so forth than Root. And is just as capable as Root is of Googling something she can't understand. Also, I don't for a second believe Root's vocabulary is that much bigger/more sophisticated than Shaw's.