Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[Petunia13]

Yes. It would have preserved Sonny's integrity and even made him heroic. He would be even more interesting with the edge and given the actor meaty material for his Emmy reel. And. Left Wilson in a state of limbo while still leaving them open to other partners/flirtations. It could have launched a mystery. Also kiddie rapist drug pusher needs to die.

[Apprentice79]

Exactly, Sonny would do anything to protect his family...I hate the way that he left Arianna..It seems so cruel and heartless...I can understand Will because of what had happened between them..Not Ari...

[swtrgrl]

Will written in character would be horrified that he was repeating his mother's mistakes and what that means to Ari and her life....

In character is the key thing. They've thrown that out the window long ago. 

 

I think there was Horita chemistry in their sex scene. 

 

I like that Sonny killing Clyde thing. I would love him to be a bit darker so maybe TPTB could've had him look like this instead of his Dudley Do-Right look. Because THAT is hot. I've never thought he was attractive ever before. Ever. Until that.

Edited August 19, 2015 by swtrgrl

[shesajar]

While I disagree with some of the conclusions about Sonny (that his behavior towards Will was predatory and that he's shirking his responsibility to Arianna), I agree that there's some retconning happening. However, I never could figure out what Sonny saw in Will, so it all (very accidentally) makes sense. From day one, I wanted him (or the show) to give us some reasons as to why Sonny fell in love with Will and he never did. Will was emotionally draining even before GW took over, and it was all give and no take for Sonny. Obviously, that was because the writers sucked, but if I squint, I can accept that it's because Sonny really was desperate to have a family. And because he never vocalized why he loved Will, I can believe that he really (in a true love forever kind of way) didn't or at least not in the way that he loved Paul. Surely, that was never the writer's intention, but this is one case where a retcon makes more sense to me than the actual story did while it was occurring.

[Apprentice79]

If we are to go with your premise Shesajar,  that means Sonny probably picked Will as a partner because he was new to the gay life, therefore he would be easy  to control, unlike Paul who was always his own man and did not depend on Sonny for anything....Will and Ari were a substitute for Paul..Will leaving to go LA was a sign that he was moving away from dependence on Sonny and following his dream..As they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions..It was that move to LA that began the end of Wilson...I don't think these writers are that deep to write a complex storyline like that..I think the plan was for Sonny to cheat with Paul, sending Will down a path of destruction..At the last minute, they thought that it would be a good twist to have Will cheat without any buildup, when all signs pointed to Sonny being the cheater....

Edited August 19, 2015 by Apprentice79

[Black Knight]

Those of you who've been watching since Sonny arrived in Salem, or are simply Sonny fans, how would you have preferred his good-bye be written?  Or would you have preferred they recast?

I would have preferred they recast. I think one of the reasons the Will/Sonny/Paul story entered a state of repetitious limbo was because the actor at the center of the triangle was leaving and so they could neither go forward with a Wilson reconciliation or do Paulson. And even now I think they're waiting to see if Freddie Smith decides he wants to come back, after the pyramid scheme company he works for blows up or whatever, and that's going to make things a further mess. They should have just recast. I think FS is cute and charming and talented, but I've seen far more tricky-to-recast parts successfully recast without an intervening period. It all comes down to the casting - if you get someone good, viewers get onboard quickly, and they had plenty of time to look for the right actor. (Whereas if you get someone terrible, it doesn't matter if there were years in between actors.)

[Apprentice79]

I also think they want Freddie to come back..I don't think they want to recast...I think they have realized too late that they should have done everything in their power to keep him...He  is charming and talented..Plus Sonny is a gay legacy character that is still a blank slate..There is alot about him that we don't know about..I know enough about Will...I think they should have made Sonny drive story with the recasting of Will...Will should have been more a supportive character, rather than lead..They could have used Sonny to bring back his brothers, with the Kiriakis family getting more focus..It would be ironic that Adrienne would become the matriarch of the Kiriakis dynasty via her 4 sons....

[LeftPhalange]

I'm disappointed Victor's role in Sonny's stabbing will probably never be revealed. 

[Originalroux]

This bugs me to end and I can't wait to complain about it:

WHY, on any show, does the person who has a secret on the other feel they MUST reveal said secret when in a difficult or dangerous situation? Shut up Aiden! Don't give up your leverage over Clyde! Shut up! Shutupshutupshutup!!!!

(that's right up with walking into a darkened room and NEVER turning on a light. UGH)

PS - at least we know he's not a trained assassin or ninja warrior.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Originalroux

[DollEyes]

  As expected, Sonny's goodbye sucked like a hooker on payday. Not because of the acting; FS was his usual brilliant self while John Aniston, Wally Kurth, Judi Evans, Christopher Sean & even the twins who play Ari gave as good or even better than they got; Guy Wilson, however, was definitely the weakest link, acting-wise. While the other actors I mentioned were amazing, GW's performance was like he graduated with straights As from the "Smelled-A-Fart" 'Acting' Academy, where Drake Hogestyn's (sp?) the President.  

 

  The real problem was the writing, or rather, the extreme lack thereof. Since FS is an Emmy-winning actor, one would think that the show would write accordingly for his departure, but apparently that was too much to ask. If Sonny is recast, I hope that he comes back with a new attitude. Not evil, but not a pushover, either. Sonny shouldn't take anymore shit from anyone again, especially Will. If he's single, even better because that could clear the deck either for Paul, another new guy or the return of another guy, preferably, Brian.

Edited August 19, 2015 by DollEyes

[kitmerlot1213]

There's a lot I will accept on a soap but Clyde besting Aidan in a fight is not one of them.  Aidan is twenty years younger, taller and more muscular but Clyde still manages a beat down?  I don't think so.

 

And I'm not seeing Kyle's sexiness, I'm just seeing a punk ass drug dealer who is sorely in need of a shave, :):)

[shesajar]

If we are to go with your premise Shesajar,  that means Sonny probably picked Will as a partner because he was new to the gay life, therefore he would be easy  to control, unlike Paul who was always his own man and did not depend on Sonny for anything....Will and Ari were a substitute for Paul..Will leaving to go LA was a sign that he was moving away from dependence on Sonny and following his dream..As they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions..It was that move to LA that began the end of Wilson...I don't think these writers are that deep to write a complex storyline like that..I think the plan was for Sonny to cheat with Paul, sending Will down a path of destruction..At the last minute, they thought that it would be a good twist to have Will cheat without any buildup, when all signs pointed to Sonny being the cheater....

No it doesn't, not at all. I don't think Sonny was controlling and I don't believe for a second that he manipulated Will. In fact, he was pretty nurturing to and patient with him almost every step of the way. He didn't love the idea of him going to LA, but he supported Will and his career. Sonny was attracted to Will because...well, for reasons that never made sense, but, as sloppy as the writing was/is, there's absolutely nothing there that casts Sonny in a predatory/controlling light. Paternalistic, yes. I think Will's personality lends itself well to people who want to protect, and Sonny seems like a natural protector.* I think there were genuine feelings, and the writers did intend for it to be romantic love, but as I said before, I never saw Sonny give any explanation of why he fell for Will. People settle all the time without realizing it; it doesn't mean that they're horrible people or looking for someone they can control. I wish the story had been meant to play out this way all along, though. 

 

*and once upon a time, this is where I'd insert my "this is a great opportunity for Will to show some growth and self awareness, to explore how his smothering parents totally screwed him up, and how he needs to come to terms with that and learn to accept responsibility for his own actions," but I've given up on that happening. Ever.

Edited August 19, 2015 by shesajar

[Apprentice79]

Your scenario would be perfect if Paulson was endgame..I think Tomsell wanted Wilson to be endgame, they just did not know how to give them conflict where they were both sympathetic..For example, Kim and Shane had many problems that were internal, that were exacerbated by external forces like Emma, Cal, Eve and Victor...

Edited August 19, 2015 by Apprentice79

[shesajar]

Oh yeah, the writing was so bad and there was some obvious gear-shifting for no good reason going on. That's why I said that the retcon makes more sense than the rest of their relationship ever did!

[Apprentice79]

Tomsell lost their way with the writing with Wilson. They never really had a plan for them and it showed....Paul should have been an antagonistic interloper trying to come between them...At one point Kim and Shane broke up because of Shane's conflicted feelings over his ex Emma, who presented herself as a better option for Shane over the hot mess that was Kim..He had no idea the evil that was in Emma..Damn she was a bitch...Her and Victor together were a lethal combination....I always felt that part of the reason that Emma hated Kim so much was the fact that she should have been the ideal partner for Shane, but Shane only wanted Kim, despite her messiness..I think he loved her even more because of that..When has love ever been rational..

Edited August 19, 2015 by Apprentice79

[swtrgrl]

return of another guy, preferably, Brian.

Oh, God yes. FLOVED him.

[Ruby Red]

You know, I prefer CS and FS as screen partners because I think they have more chemistry and both of them are the better actors than GW is, in my opinion.

[Apprentice79]

I thought Ej and Sami had better chemistry than Lumi..I  loved Ej's devotion to Sami and he loved her darkness and reveled in it and he never looked once at Carrie. That was always a bonus for me. I wanted them to become a dark power couple in Salem, but the writers ruined that by making him a rapist...I always preferred Lumi  over Ejami, even if latter had the better chemistry than the former..They were my sentimental favorite...

Edited August 19, 2015 by Apprentice79

[Ruby Red]

I don't disagree, I was always more of a Lumi shipper and I think Lucas and Sami had plenty of chemistry even if Ejami had more hot and sizzling chemistry. EJ and Sami's relationship became way too messed up for me to ever truly root for them.

[Apprentice79]

The writers missed an opportunity by not having a real triangle with Ej/Sami/Lucas , none of them are saints and all three are capable of doing heinous things to get what they want....Sami made sense with both men for different reasons..

[Ruby Red]

An EJ/Sami/Lucas triangle would have been interesting, none of them are indeed perfect and capable of doing bad things. As long as those awful things were not directed to each other, or at least not towards Sami and Sami to them. Well, there is a limit...

[Apprentice79]

Within limits of course..The triangle could have lasted for a long time, with Lumi winning of course....I do think that is why Lucas and Will hated EJ so much, they recognized that Ej appealed to Sami's dark side...Sami even blew off her dad and Will for EJ, those are the 2 people that she is scared of losing in her life...I think the show was heading down that path of Ejami being a dark power couple and then Ken Corday disliked the Ejami pairing and ordered them be destroyed...I was so happy that Sami got a guy that only wanted her with no hidden agenda...

Edited August 19, 2015 by Apprentice79

[LeftPhalange]

This show is so tedious. 

[ByaNose]

First off, who knew Clyde was a ninja? I hate that Clyde gets the last word, punch, kick and threat in every scene he has. No wonder they got new writers. Aiden was a virtual punching bag and so weak. Whereas, Clyde walks away with all the answers. Hopefully, when/if Daniel does leave/die he has the good sense to give someone else this earth shattering information. I don't think I can take Clyde outliving & outsmarting everyone much longer. That said, I think James Reid is a great actor but I.just.can't.take.Clyde.anymore!

[amish40]

In today's episode, Daniel Cosgrove's acting was great. He genuinely looked in pain, especially when he was stumbling around and opening the drawers.

[Petunia13]

GMFB Aiden should have kicked his ass.

Yea I'm kinda annoyed with how slapdash Sonny's exit was this show has been doing really shitty exit stories for the past year. The same one over and over- they get a job out of town. Even EJ's exit was kinda dumb.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Petunia13

[2222222222222222]

No it doesn't, not at all. I don't think Sonny was controlling and I don't believe for a second that he manipulated Will. In fact, he was pretty nurturing to and patient with him almost every step of the way. He didn't love the idea of him going to LA, but he supported Will and his career. Sonny was attracted to Will because...well, for reasons that never made sense, but, as sloppy as the writing was/is, there's absolutely nothing there that casts Sonny in a predatory/controlling light. Paternalistic, yes. I think Will's personality lends itself well to people who want to protect, and Sonny seems like a natural protector.* I think there were genuine feelings, and the writers did intend for it to be romantic love, but as I said before, I never saw Sonny give any explanation of why he fell for Will. People settle all the time without realizing it; it doesn't mean that they're horrible people or looking for someone they can control. I wish the story had been meant to play out this way all along, though. 

 

*and once upon a time, this is where I'd insert my "this is a great opportunity for Will to show some growth and self awareness, to explore how his smothering parents totally screwed him up, and how he needs to come to terms with that and learn to accept responsibility for his own actions," but I've given up on that happening. Ever.

 

I agree with all of this!

 

I'm sorry but these "Sonny only used Will and Ari as props and preyed on them" assumptions are absolutely FALSE, in my opinion. The fact is, Will was no catch. Sonny had his pick of way better family prospects if what he wanted was to settle down and have a family- Will was literally the bottom of the barrel in terms of mature, ready young men to choose from. There is no way Sonny would have chosen Will if he didn't love him because Will was not worth the drama otherwise, point blank period. He absolutely was not. I'm one of the people who spent the whole relationship wondering what the heck Sonny- or anybody- would see in someone like Will, a man who spits at his own reflection. Loving someone who hates himself that much is mind-boggling to me. Was there retcon, perhaps, but this ain't it. Saying Sonny preyed on Will to use as a prop is as incorrect as saying Will used Sonny and Ari to have the "real family" he was so afraid he wouldn't have if he came out and because he was Sami's child. The big doofuses fell in love for no real reason provided on screen, but I don't doubt the Wilson love even as I rebuke the relationship while waving my Team Paulson flag.

 

And I agree about Sonny being a protector and Will's personality encouraging it. There's a reason why Sami, Lucas, Kate, EJ, Justin, Marlena, and Adrienne ended up cleaning up all messes: he gives off the impression of a man-child incapable of adult-ing for himself.

Clyde is my homie- he gets ish done every time. I love me some Victor, but i ain't got time for all this waffling him and Stefano do- Clyde is all about execution.

[rustyspigot]

People People People. Fucking Jordan had a better exit than Sonny. And yes, Martyr Melanie as well. That being said I guess Serena will be deified by Eric before she leaves. Make. It. STOP!

[oceanblue]

So Clyde walked through the Salem in his stocking cap and no one noticed or cared?

[Black Knight]

I also think they want Freddie to come back..I don't think they want to recast...I think they have realized too late that they should have done everything in their power to keep him...

To be fair, we don't know what they did or didn't try. Freddie Smith gained noticeable weight - most likely through heavy drinking - and had a very serious car accident driving drunk in which he almost killed himself and his girlfriend and could easily have killed someone else. He managed to avoid jail and, based on how he's looking physically nowadays, seems to have cleaned up his act. And he capped all of that off by getting engaged. I mean, maybe he left because he wanted more money and the show didn't want to pay him, but it's also quite possible that he decided to leave DAYS as part of his overhauling of his life after a realization of how close he came to killing himself or ruining his life completely, and if so, there may not have been anything TPTB could have done to convince him otherwise.

 

I laughed at Hope at the end of today. Instead of calling 911 or at least grabbing a first aid kit or assessing injuries, she just curls up on Aiden. Very useful, that. Lucky for this town that she's not a first responder...oh wait...

[Apprentice79]

I agree with all of this!

 

I'm sorry but these "Sonny only used Will and Ari as props and preyed on them" assumptions are absolutely FALSE, in my opinion. The fact is, Will was no catch. Sonny had his pick of way better family prospects if what he wanted was to settle down and have a family- Will was literally the bottom of the barrel in terms of mature, ready young men to choose from. There is no way Sonny would have chosen Will if he didn't love him because Will was not worth the drama otherwise, point blank period. He absolutely was not. I'm one of the people who spent the whole relationship wondering what the heck Sonny- or anybody- would see in someone like Will, a man who spits at his own reflection. Loving someone who hates himself that much is mind-boggling to me. Was there retcon, perhaps, but this ain't it. Saying Sonny preyed on Will to use as a prop is as incorrect as saying Will used Sonny and Ari to have the "real family" he was so afraid he wouldn't have if he came out and because he was Sami's child. The big doofuses fell in love for no real reason provided on screen, but I don't doubt the Wilson love even as I rebuke the relationship while waving my Team Paulson flag.

 

And I agree about Sonny being a protector and Will's personality encouraging it. There's a reason why Sami, Lucas, Kate, EJ, Justin, Marlena, and Adrienne ended up cleaning up all messes: he gives off the impression of a man-child incapable of adult-ing for himself.

Clyde is my homie- he gets ish done every time. I love me some Victor, but i ain't got time for all this waffling him and Stefano do- Clyde is all about execution.

What mess has Will involved People in, other than the time that Will who was a teen shot EJ in a misguided attempt to protect his mother who was being forced to marry EJ in order to protect the Brady family from the Dimera family..If I remember correctly, only Lucas knew at the time that Will had shot EJ, I think Billie figured it out after becoming Allie's godmother. Billie and Lucas were super close and of course she was going to cover up for her favorite nephew who was named after her.. Roman and Hope covered up Will's crime and Lucas sent him to live in Switzerland with Carrie and Austin and Lucas went to prison..Sami did not even know that Will was the real culprit until Nick blackmailed Will with the information in order to steal his unborn child..Lucas was trying to protect Will, just like Steve took the rap for Adrienne after she killed her father Duke after he had raped her. Adrienne did not even remember that she had killed her dad. Steve was willing to go to jail for her.. Victor never wanted Adrienne to be with Justin and schemed to ruin their marriage..He even gave Justin pills that kept him from getting Adrienne pregnant, when she was trying to conceive a child. If Victor had his way, Sonny would not even exist.. He belittled and taunted Adrienne and made her feel inferior and  not good enough for Justin and she eventually turned to Emilio and began an affair with him....

 

Whether Will was good enough for Sonny, that is open for  interpretation.. The Brady  family could have been against Will being involved with Victor's grand-nephew Sonny, due to all of the horrible stuff that Victor had perpetrated against the Brady family for years..There is a reason why Bo has never accepted Victor as a dad and why John was conflicted about being with Isabella his wife and Brady's mother, when she was revealed to be Victor's daughter...I never understood how Steve and Kayla were okay with Stefanie being involved with Philip.They should have raised hell over that .Kayla was heavily pregnant with Stefanie in jail due to Victor's machinations. Victor hired Steve a mercenary at the time to spy on the Brady family and he fell in love with Kayla. Not to mention torturing Kim, trying to kill Shane numerous times and stealing their son Andrew. It makes no sense to me that Shane and Kim have not gone to the Kiriakis mansion and gotten Theresa and Tate out of there. I need the new writers to fix that pronto.  I find it funny how Will is looked upon as the devil incarnate, when there are characters on the show who  have done worst...

Edited August 20, 2015 by Apprentice79

[Happytobehere]

What mess has Will involved People in, other than the time that Will who was a teen shot EJ in a misguided attempt to protect his mother who was being forced to marry EJ in order to protect the Brady family from the Dimera family..If I remember correctly, only Lucas knew at the time that Will had shot EJ, I think Billie figured it out after becoming Allie's godmother. Billie and Lucas were super close and of course she was going to cover up for her favorite nephew who was named after her.. Roman and Hope covered up Will's crime and Lucas sent him to live in Switzerland with Carrie and Austin and Lucas went to prison..Sami did not even know that Will was the real culprit until Nick blackmailed Will with the information in order to steal his unborn child..Lucas was trying to protect Will, just like Steve took the rap for Adrienne after she killed her father Duke after he had raped her. Adrienne did not even remember that she had killed her dad. Steve was willing to go to jail for her.. Victor never wanted Adrienne to be with Justin and schemed to ruin their marriage..He even gave Justin pills that kept him from getting Adrienne pregnant, when she was trying to conceive a child. If Victor had his way, Sonny would not even exist.. He belittled and taunted Adrienne and made her feel inferior and  not good enough for Justin and she eventually turned to Emilio and began an affair with him....

 

Whether Will was good enough for Sonny, that is open for  interpretation.. The Brady  family could have been against Will being involved with Victor's grand-nephew Sonny, due to all of the horrible stuff that Victor had perpetrated against the Brady family for years..There is a reason why Bo has never accepted Victor as a dad and why John was conflicted about being with Isabella his wife and Brady's mother, when she was revealed to be Victor's daughter...I never understood how Steve and Kayla were okay with Stefanie being involved with Philip.They should have raised hell over that .Kayla was heavily pregnant with Stefanie in jail due to Victor's machinations. Victor hired Steve a mercenary at the time to spy on the Brady family and he fell in love with Kayla. Not to mention torturing Kim, trying to kill Shane numerous times and stealing their son Andrew. It makes no sense to me that Shane and Kim have not gone to the Kiriakis mansion and gotten Theresa and Tate out of there. I need the new writers to fix that pronto.  I find it funny how Will is looked upon as the devil incarnate, when there are characters on the show who  have done worst...

So much this! I have never warmed to Victor because of the awful things he did. What he did to Kayla was especially awful given that she was the only person who every tried to get along with him, give him the benefit of the doubt and respect his role as Bo's sperm donor. This is why his claims of loving Caroline and Bo never really wrung true for me. Victor loved the idea of family and the thought of winning Caroline from Shawn, but the things he did to her daughters, knowing it was killing her, the things he did to Kimberly (remember, the only reason, Bo agreed to let Victor be his father to stop his nonsense with Andrew) and especially what he did to Kayla spoke to his real self, there's a reason it's said that actions speak louder than words.. Everyone, Victor included knew that Kayla was the person Bo was closest to and if he truly loved his son, he would never have been able to hurt Kayla the way he did. The funny thing is, Kayla never would blame Phillip for Victor's actions, so her response to Phillip and Stephanie didn't surprise me. I could even see Steve not wanting a kid's background to be held against him given Steve's history. Although he would have watched Phillip like a hawk waiting for the Kiriakis foot to drop.

Now for the hypocrite in me. As awful as Victor is and as deep as my dislike runs for him, I just love Stefano (the need to retire the character is acknowledged). He was equally awful, in fact, he's worse, but I remember when he and Tony first came to Salem. Stefano had so much flair, you couldn't help but love the evil rat bastard. Hell, I even loved his diabolical laugh. I recall his first return from the dead, it was chilling and excellently executed, it solidified Stefano as someone you didn't want to f... with. I think part of what endeared the original version of Stefano to me and touched me was because he loved his kids so. I remember when they revealed that Tony wasn't his son (yes they reversed this, meaning Tony slept with his sister, but that's a story for another time), when he found out Renee and Lexie were his daughters. I still think it speaks volumes that the only child he actually and actively raised, Tony, was the only one who was even remotely normal, now what he did to Tony the adult...but Tony the child to pre-Salem adult was just a normal guy. For those who have only seen latter day Stefano, who became a characature, or Stefano post JM becoming ill, I suggest you seek out YouTube clips because he was amazing. So many subsequent villains on soaps were patterned after him.

[salvame]

Please, please, tell me that Clyde Weston will be totally gone from this show SOON.  They have tried to make him a major player, and he is so not one!  Neither Stefano nor Victor would ever be caught soiling their own hands.   I have thought he was a useless two-bit player from the very first.

 

Geez, Hope, way to get those frozen concoctions back to Aidan ASAP.  Should have really gone back for fresh ones, after wasting 30 minutes shooting the shit with Julie, then Rafe.  And, yes, I would much prefer Rope to Aidope.  Something about Aiden has never seemed right to me.  

Edited August 20, 2015 by salvame

[Apprentice79]

I love your post Happytobehere, so many people worship Victor and it is disgusting.,His treatment of Theresa and Will is awful....I don't care how despicable they have acted, they are perfect angels compared to Victor...Victor is evil...His history speaks for itself...His recent interactions with Kim, showed his true colors..Kim was so shaken to be around him. Even as an old man, he still can get to her.  Shane would never let his Jeannie be so close to Victor..Victor and Maggie make no sense to me, given that he tried to have her daughter Melissa killed..It defies logic to me....Victor even got a Christmas ornament on the Horton Christmas tree..It was bizarro world for me..I hate the fact that Victor and Caroline are being drawn together under the new regime...Run Caroline Run! I would rather watch Nicole shave Dr Tan on a loop 20 times a day....

 

I also wanted to say that I enjoyed the show today that debuted under Higriff..I loved the way the show looked, and everybody looked beautiful..I loved seeing Julie be a real character and not the joke that she was under Tomsell...I loved her scenes with Hope and Marlena. I teared up a bit when she and Hope spoke about Bo...You can tell that Hope still loves Bo... I think it is very appropriate that Doug and Julie take over for Tom and Alice.. James Read and Daniel Cosgrove were fantastic together and played well off each other...

Edited August 20, 2015 by Apprentice79

[2222222222222222]

What mess has Will involved People in, other than the time that Will who was a teen shot EJ in a misguided attempt to protect his mother who was being forced to marry EJ in order to protect the Brady family from the Dimera family..If I remember correctly, only Lucas knew at the time that Will had shot EJ, I think Billie figured it out after becoming Allie's godmother. Billie and Lucas were super close and of course she was going to cover up for her favorite nephew who was named after her.. Roman and Hope covered up Will's crime and Lucas sent him to live in Switzerland with Carrie and Austin and Lucas went to prison..Sami did not even know that Will was the real culprit until Nick blackmailed Will with the information in order to steal his unborn child..Lucas was trying to protect Will, just like Steve took the rap for Adrienne after she killed her father Duke after he had raped her. Adrienne did not even remember that she had killed her dad. Steve was willing to go to jail for her.. Victor never wanted Adrienne to be with Justin and schemed to ruin their marriage..He even gave Justin pills that kept him from getting Adrienne pregnant, when she was trying to conceive a child. If Victor had his way, Sonny would not even exist.. He belittled and taunted Adrienne and made her feel inferior and  not good enough for Justin and she eventually turned to Emilio and began an affair with him....

 

Whether Will was good enough for Sonny, that is open for  interpretation.. The Brady  family could have been against Will being involved with Victor's grand-nephew Sonny, due to all of the horrible stuff that Victor had perpetrated against the Brady family for years..There is a reason why Bo has never accepted Victor as a dad and why John was conflicted about being with Isabella his wife and Brady's mother, when she was revealed to be Victor's daughter...I never understood how Steve and Kayla were okay with Stefanie being involved with Philip.They should have raised hell over that .Kayla was heavily pregnant with Stefanie in jail due to Victor's machinations. Victor hired Steve a mercenary at the time to spy on the Brady family and he fell in love with Kayla. Not to mention torturing Kim, trying to kill Shane numerous times and stealing their son Andrew. It makes no sense to me that Shane and Kim have not gone to the Kiriakis mansion and gotten Theresa and Tate out of there. I need the new writers to fix that pronto.  I find it funny how Will is looked upon as the devil incarnate, when there are characters on the show who  have done worst...

 

I find it funnier that you comment about Will being looked at as the devil incarnate when that's nowhere in my post, frankly.

 

Solving Will;'s problems began with Will shooting EJ- I don't care how young he was, that put Roman, Hope, and Lucas's livelihod on the line. Then we'll skip on past the Will holds a gun on Stefano and would rather go to jail than admit he's gay to his "woe is me, I ditched my date with Sonny cuz his mama doesn't like me" moping where he didn't even tell Sonny, just rolled on out and would have continued moping if Kate and Sami hadn't confronted Adrienne. Then we have pregnant Gabi where, instead of just admitting he got her pregnant, he goes to Sonny for money for Gabi's abortion under false pretenses then concocts the stupid plan with Nick and Gabi to disguise the baby's paternity so he wouldn't lose Sonny (one of those moments where it's like, Will..... could you just freaking try to ask Sonny instead of assuming how things would work out). Then when he gets busted, he decides "I want rights to my baby," which he might have gotten easily until him and Lucas decided it was a great idea to discuss trying to murder EJ in public. And right there is where the story gets ridiculous, where it literally gets to the point of Will damn near twiddling his thumbs while literally everyone else is trying to eliminate proof of what Will did, from the police evidence to Nick's taped confession to get Will the rights to his daughter. Adrienne called it and I was the only one who heeded her warning- Sonny should have extracted himself from Will's life. But nooooooooooo, Sonny the loveable doofus was in l-o-v-e (bless his heart). Then we'll skip right along to his recent mess of banging around with two other men where he manages to beg Lucas, Marlena, John, and Kate to help him search for blackmail material, convince John to not go searching for his son/hide his paternity, convince John that Paul seduced him in nothing but a towel, and to get rid of Paul first by asking Kate to print his article on the therapist then to give him a job out of town. Will is and always has been in his adulthood drama with a capital D. 

 

That has absolutely nothing to do with Victor because up until Will cheated on his nephew twice, Victor supported their relationship. The Bradys could have disapproved of Sonny's one yr relationship with Victor if they wanted to but let's call a spade a spade- Sonny was raised in Dubai with Justin and Adrienne, Will's mother is Sami and his damn near favorite person in the world at that point was EJ Dimera- there was equal reason to disapprove on both sides. I am talking about Will and Sonny as individuals and on an individual note, Will is an immature, self-depreciating, nuerotic, mother-hating mess and Sonny is an in-denial, overly-forgiving, over-protective truth withholding, dependable adult (or he was till Will turned him into the saddest man on earth this year). Someone on soapcentral said it better than I ever could: Will's rootability as a character comes from the people who love him, not the character himself.

 

Is Will the devil, no (really don't know where you got that from). Is he a mess, hell yeah. Could Sonny have done better and did he have multiple opportunities to lead a less stressful life than the one he has been living, hell yeah- he could be backpacking with Brent, having kinky fun with Dr. Brian, or banging Paul right now, and that's just the options we've seen on screen- who knows what Sonny's other relationships looked like, especially in the one year before he and Will started dating (because we know for a fact he'd brought other unnamed men to his apartment before he brought Will there). The point is, there is absolutely no sane reason for Sonny to have stuck around as long as he did unless he loved Will and Ari as much as they loved him and to insinuate otherwise is disrespectful to their three years- even I can see that as a Paulson fan. It's akin to Will moaning to Marlena "Sonny didn't love me, he just married the first guy who came along" which Marlena, thankfully, pointed out as blatantly untrue and outlined for Will how ridiculous he sounded- Will was farrrrrrr from the first guy and as Sonny remembered while talking to Ben, it was only instant "you are the one" with Paul, not Will- that took a bit.

[shesajar]

So I know most of you hate on Julie, but she worried me yesterday. Some of her wording and reactions to Marlena and Hope in their conversations had me concerned that something bad's going to happen. Maybe to Doug? I know their glory days on the show are far behind them, but I still love me some Doug and Julie, so I'm hoping that Julie's emotional reactions are just due to her being a busybody who really cares! 

[buffynut]

I laughed at Hope at the end of today. Instead of calling 911 or at least grabbing a first aid kit or assessing injuries, she just curls up on Aiden. Very useful, that. Lucky for this town that she's not a first responder...oh wait...

 

Yeah, I thought that was odd too.  But it kind of went along with the rest of the show with the characters being more calm and caring, and well kinda likable.

 

Victor and Maggie make no sense to me, given that he tried to have her daughter Melissa killed..It defies logic to me....Victor even got a Christmas ornament on the Horton Christmas tree..It was bizarro world for me..I hate the fact that Victor and Caroline are being drawn together under the new regime...Run Caroline Run! I would rather watch Nicole shave Dr Tan on a loop 20 times a day....

 

I also wanted to say that I enjoyed the show today that debuted under Higriff..I loved the way the show looked, and everybody looked beautiful..I loved seeing Julie be a real character and not the joke that she was under Tomsell...I loved her scenes with Hope and Marlena. I teared up a bit when she and Hope spoke about Bo...You can tell that Hope still loves Bo... I think it is very appropriate that Doug and Julie take over for Tom and Alice.. James Read and Daniel Cosgrove were fantastic together and played well off each other...

 

Victor & Maggie make no sense to me either.  But, that said, I still like Victor and I like the idea of him and Caroline getting close again. Caroline always brought out the good side of him.  Hopefully the new writers will make him less of a caricature and drop the illogical idea that he would know anything about reality tv shows like Honey Boo Boo. And, please no to the loop of Nicole shaving Dr. Tan. I couldn't even stomach that the first time!

 

I also like the way the new writers wrote Julie.  For the first time in forever, she seemed like a nice, normal woman. 

 

Everything is changing already with John joining the ISA again(?).   Now I really, really want to see Shane, the original ISA agent.

 

I missed the beginning of the show again yesterday.  Did we learn anything about the secret Aiden knows about Clyde?

[LeftPhalange]

I really just want the writers to give Will a brain tumor or revel that the real one was switched by the Dimerias at some point. I normally hate such cheap and lazy writing but I will gladly accept it this time if it means Sami and Lucas' kid is no longer...this. 

[Apprentice79]

No Buffynut,  we did not find out what Aiden has on Clyde..I think it will factor in their departure from the show..I think Julie was being overly emotional with Hope and Marlena and it fit the tone of the show yesterday about love and loss....I became a Bope fan all over again, when Hope was telling julie about her feelings about Bo deserting her and their family...Kristian was fantastic and she sold Hope's pain about Bo and her happiness with Aiden..I cannot wait to see Bo, Steve and hopefully my beloved Jack.. Shane and Kim need to show up again and be there for Eve..She is going to need it, if the rumors about Paige are true....I loved the show yesterday and it was very subdued, but very effective...The scenes were noticeably longer, the dialogue was crisp and the actors stepped up their game...I loved it..Julie was so damn loveable....

 

I will always like Will because he is Lumi's kid and the other legacy children, except for Abigail...It really pains me to hate Jack's little girl...

Edited August 20, 2015 by Apprentice79

[swtrgrl]

I really just want the writers to give Will a brain tumor or revel that the real one was switched by the Dimerias at some point. I normally hate such cheap and lazy writing but I will gladly accept it this time if it means Sami and Lucas' kid is no longer...this.

Yes. I can't stand this wimpering sniveling sack of crap. Will has always been emotional and needy and insecure but THIS? No. Just...No.

[buffynut]

No Buffynut,  we did not find out what Aiden has on Clyde..I think it will factor in their departure from the show..

Thanks Apprentice!  :)

[micat]

I felt like there was some subtext in the Julie/Hope conversation (as mentioned upthread) but I didn't think it was foreshadowing anything happening to Doug. I almost felt like Julie knew something more than Hope did about why Bo has stayed away so long. Julie gave Hope a look when Hope said she couldn't understand how he could choose his job over his family. I wonder if it was real or not. I thought the whole situation was hilarious though - Julie starts off saying how happy Hope looks, and immediately sets about taking her down as far as possible. I always enjoy Hope's acting, and I thought she did a particularly good job in that scene, showing the angst she still feels.

 

However, the fact that Hope can pick up on the subtlest of clues sometimes yet is missing the big blinking sign over Rafe's head that says "I LOVE YOU, HOPE!" is not all that believable to me. I'm glad that they are putting him back on the police force. I wonder who they will have managing Edge of the Square? Not Ben, surely?

[Apprentice79]

Bravo! Julie is just inappropriate and that is part of her charm...Tomsell wrote her as a shrill, judgmental harpy. She was so lovable yesterday....I never would have said that when Nick was torturing Wilson...What a difference between Tomsell and Higrith...I am going to mourn Clyde, he had staying power as a villain, it  is too bad that Tomsell had to make him a pedophile. The problem with Tomsell is that they like to pile on the misdeeds on a character that they have deemed to be bad to the point that you hate them.

 

For example, it made no sense that Theresa would try to kill John, it was gratuitous and unnecessary.  It just serve to make her unlikable with no staying power as long-term character. They did the same thing with Nicole with shredgate ..Clyde is infinitely more scarier than the octogenarian duo of Victor and Stefano...The show should have groomed their successors years ago..Philip was on his way to being a badass Kiriakis, with Victor acting as his mentor..The show fucked it up by turning him into a sap for Melanie Jonas of all people...

Edited August 20, 2015 by Apprentice79

[QuelleC]

 

I almost felt like Julie knew something more than Hope did about why Bo has stayed away so long. Julie gave Hope a look when Hope said she couldn't understand how he could choose his job over his family. I wonder if it was real or not. I thought the whole situation was hilarious though - Julie starts off saying how happy Hope looks, and immediately sets about taking her down as far as possible.

Hope totally forgot she and Rafe had a thing way back when.  Hope has no clue about how Creepy Clyde suddenly muscled into trucking to Salem.  She can't connect that into how drugs are coming in.  It's cool how Vic wanted to divest himself of that but she has no freaking idea of what Clyde is up to??

[Apprentice79]

The show should have gone with Rafe and Hope and Aiden and Kayla..Aiden and Kayla had a nice spark..It would have been very interesting to see Bo and Steve return to town finding out that their wives had move on with other men....Hope and Kayla always had an interesting vibe due to Kayla's closeness with her baby brother Bo...I always loved the dynamic between the Brady siblings..It is too bad they never did that with their children..I think Stefanie, Theresa and Chelsea would be amazing together...The same for Eric, Andrew and Shawn-Douglas...

Edited August 20, 2015 by Apprentice79

[bantering]

Without Sonny or Sami, Will is going to be really hard to watch. I mean, he already was, but he needed those two for me not to fast-forward his scenes.

[swtrgrl]

I agree. It's going to be 24/7 of will whining about losing Sonny. He'll never take responsibility for his part in it and he'll blame Paul for everything. Worst thing is his family will enable him.

[Apprentice79]

If the show continues to mold Will into being like Sami, then yes,he will do that. If Higrith decides to go on another direction, they will use this opportunity to fix the damage that Tomsell has done on not only  to Will, but Theresa, Nicole, Kate,Maggie, Jennifer, Jack and Eve....Higley  was around as a scriptwriter throughout Eve's original run on the show...Eve would never sleep with Jack's son, and she never hated Jack..I was floored by her intense hatred of him...It was just another way for Tomsell to create drama between Jennifer and Eve...

Edited August 20, 2015 by Apprentice79

[Petunia13]

"mold into Sami" ? I don't really see the similarity. Will is much more whiny and hapless and ineffectual. She schemed (he does too) but when she did actually shook shit up and had ramifications. She also seems crazier and more cunning.

[Apprentice79]

Wow! the show had Hope referenced Zack's death today and how it impacted the Bope relationship...History is being brought up...Damn Higrith is not playing about paying attention to characterizations....I am loving this....The anvils were dropping about Aiden keeping secrets from Hope today and not just about the beatdown that he received from Clyde.. I am actually liking Hope with Aiden, they are compelling. I did not care for them under Tomsell.Daniel Cosgrove is a find....he is definitely a keeper....He can deliver so effortlessly with his screen partners...Day 2 of Higrith was good for me...Clyde is such an unrepentant asshole...I wish that the show would retcon his abusive past with Jordan, just so that he can stay....He is really good especially when he is basking in his own self-importance and perceived omnipotence... Rafe who is usually dead onscreen came alive with his interactions with him...

"mold into Sami" ? I don't really see the similarity. Will is much more whiny and hapless and ineffectual. She schemed (he does too) but when she did actually shook shit up and had ramifications. She also seems crazier and more cunning.

Corday said that they wanted to make Will and Theresa just like Sami..That is why I referenced that..I was not saying that Will is just like his mother...