Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[MsTree]

14 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

It's a soap, anything goes, though. Hope was brainwashed into becoming Princess Gina. How did Hope develop the necessary skills to become a  successful thief, during her missing years.. It was a stupid storyline, but, to enjoy it, you had to suspend disbelief.  Some fans loved it and some hated it.  I hated that story because it began the character assassination of Hope, that got worst, as the years progressed, but, I digress..We cannot always put real world scenarios in a soap.  It doesn't surprise me that Gabi and Will have fans that want them together.  Chandler always had more chemistry with Camilla than Freddie. He also had chemistry with James Scott and the original Chad.  They also had their fans.  Ron would not have Susan brainwash Will to be straight, because, it would cause a backlash.. The show does not need to alienate fans. 

Thanks for saying what I was thinking.  That said, IMO calling a storyline puke-worthy is childish at best. Just say you don't like it and/or don't agree. But if you're getting SICK over it, then it's time to stop watching.

[Sidney]

10 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

All of the Marlena and WIll scenes were fantastic.  DH and CM are still fabulous together.  

I wish the show had not cut whatever scenes there were leading up to Sami being comforted by John.  I like when the show acknowledges that John was Sami’s father during her formative years.  When Marlena and Roman came back, Sami did not go with her biological parents easily and shortly thereafter, she and Erick were shipped off.

Why am I not surprised by the amount of ”Awe poor JJ, F’ Abe” sentiments I’m seeing .  Don’t worry Theo will soon be an afterthought, Abe will once again be relegated to the background and Lani will be out of your favs orbit soon enough - Days never changes on matters of race and Ron is just the guy to carry on their vision.

I have no problem with JR being relegated to background. The actor is way too over the top to have leading material, IMO. I think with shaper writing, and getting fleshed out more, SS could pretty decent.

[teacake]

On 11/21/2017 at 1:31 PM, JBC344 said:

I don't want to get into was the gun at her head or by his side argument because truth be told it doesn't make a difference but what I will say is the reason it is considered rape is because there was a gun involved period.  It is the threat that EJ would use the gun on her and also removing the ability of choice by having Lucas's life hang in the balance. 

When the choice is have sex with me or I'm going to let your fiancée die.  There is NO CHOICE.  That is why the narrative of the story has always been rape as opposed to a "devil's bargain" or an "indecent proposal".

Weather the gun is at her head, by his side or he just casually displays it in front of her, please make no mistake that is a THREAT. 

Also please understand that in the climate we are currently in with what is going on with women reclaiming their voice that there is no "one way" to be raped/harassed/assaulted.  Just because Sami wasn't beaten, drug to a car and had her clothes savagely ripped off of her doesn't mean that it wasn't rape. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not implying what other posters may or may not think, but when we are commenting on details of the plot, please make sure we are separating those details from the actual narrative of what the story is. 

Now it is true that Sami and EJ have worked past all of that. It was even referenced and brought up again when Kristen raped Eric.  Sami admitted that one of the reasons she was able to forgive EJ was because she had done the same thing to Austin and they had worked though it and come out on the other side.

The problem for me with all of these stories (Sami/EJ, Kristen/Eric, Steve/Ava) is not seeing that original scenario was rape, but that the show doesn't commit to playing it out that way.  The show eventually came around to letting Sami talk about the situation as rape, but there was a lot of meantime where that wasn't the case.  Eric was raped by Kristen, but the reveal of the tape of it in the church it played like he had done something scandalous.  Ava coerced Steve into having sex with her, but the aftermath of it played like cheating (Steve even asked Joey if he was jealous).  The show always tries to have it both ways.  It wants to have these sex scenes without having to write the characters as accountable for the choices that allow them to happen.  But there is nothing salacious about rape, and trying to use these rape scenarios to steam up the screen muddies the waters, even if the characters sometimes say the right things.

Edited November 25, 2017 by lska

[JBC344]

1 hour ago, lska said:

The problem for me with all of these stories (Sami/EJ, Kristen/Eric, Steve/Ava) is not seeing that original scenario was rape, but that the show doesn't commit to playing it out that way.  The show eventually came around to letting Sami talk about the situation as rape, but there was a lot of meantime where that wasn't the case.  Eric was raped by Kristen, but the reveal of the tape of it in the church it played like he had done something scandalous.  Ava coerced Steve into having sex with her, but the aftermath of it played like cheating (Steve even asked Joey if he was jealous).  The show always tries to have it both ways.  It wants to have these sex scenes without having to write the characters as accountable for the choices that allow them to happen.  But there is nothing salacious about rape, and trying to use these rape scenarios to steam up the screen muddies the waters, even if the characters sometimes say the right things.

I think the show has tried to do the "don't bring it up and remind the audience" in regard to the rape but immediately after it happened it was described as rape.  The following storyline after the rape was Sami and Celeste teaming up to kill EJ.  What convinced Celeste to spearhead the mission outside of thinking EJ took Lexi was the fact that EJ raped Sami.  Now I agree with you the intervening years the show did a lot of not mentioning the word "rape" per se.  But the narrative in what the show has always presented us is that it was rape. 

Sorry, not trying to get into this again, just wanted to remind what we the audience were shown.

[teacake]

8 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I think the show has tried to do the "don't bring it up and remind the audience" in regard to the rape but immediately after it happened it was described as rape.  The following storyline after the rape was Sami and Celeste teaming up to kill EJ.  What convinced Celeste to spearhead the mission outside of thinking EJ took Lexi was the fact that EJ raped Sami.  Now I agree with you the intervening years the show did a lot of not mentioning the word "rape" per se.  But the narrative in what the show has always presented us is that it was rape.

I agree with that... I only think that the intervening years, and the time that they tried to play with the EJ/Sami connection while not acknowledging the rape, is part of the narrative too..

[Apprentice79]

42 minutes ago, lska said:

I agree with that... I only think that the intervening years, and the time that they tried to play with the EJ/Sami connection while not acknowledging the rape, is part of the narrative too..

Not to mention, that, different writing teams, had different takes, on Ejamie and the rape.  Hogan Scheffer and JER were Pro-lumi and wrote EJ as a villain, for them to overcome.  While the writing team after their respective stints, wrote Ejamie as being soulmates, despite the rape.  While Dena wrote Safe, sidelined Lucas, in favor of Rafe and wrote EJ as their antagonist.. Mardar wrote grief sex  between Ejamie and broke up Safe. Tomlin reunited EJ and Sami, wrote EJ sleeping with Abigail story and EJ's death..  Griffin and Dena brought Sami back for Will's funeral and wrote her as being totally in love with EJ..

Edited November 25, 2017 by Apprentice79

[pau]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

Not to mention, that, different writing teams, had different takes, on Ejamie and the rape.  Hogan Scheffer and JER were Pro-lumi and wrote EJ as a villain, for them to overcome.  While the writing team after their respective stints, wrote Ejamie as being soulmates, despite the rape.  While Dena wrote Safe, sidelined Lucas, in favor of Rafe and wrote EJ as their antagonist.. Mardar wrote grief sex  between Ejamie and broke up Safe. Tomlin reunited EJ and Sami, wrote EJ sleeping with Abigail story and EJ's death..  Griffin and Dena brought Sami back for Will's funeral and wrote her as being totally in love with EJ..

Tomlin never wanted to write for Ej and Sami (well Corday never wanted it to be honest) hence the last awful year for Ej's character..NBC asked them to write for them in 2013 because they got higher ratings when the characters were involved with each other most of the time. Once ratings were alright and NBC were not behind them, Corday and co decided to go for another destructive writing ride and then the two actors (and characters) were gone.

[radishcake]

Guys drop it on arguing about the rape/not rape on any of these story lines. Do NOT argue back and forth on these boards. Post about the show. 

[bobcat1946]

On 11/24/2017 at 4:02 AM, Star Aristille said:

It's puke-worthy because it reeks of homophobia.

And I would not love that, because it just takes away one of the biggest self-discoveries of Will's life and makes one of its biggest stories irrelevant and meaningless.

Pukeworthy because I do not want my Gabi with a gay guy.

[bobcat1946]

On 11/21/2017 at 1:43 PM, TigerLynx said:

Yes, it is true.  All you have to do is watch the entire scene.

It's going to suck if EJ is actually alive.  Sami and her children are better off with EJ dead.

Too bad the ungrateful brat Will is not dead.

Edited November 26, 2017 by bobcat1946

[DisneyBoy]

Well maybe now that Will is back, the writers will write him and Sami reaching an understanding again. Eventually. With him dead there's no hope of them being close. Now there is.

[Apprentice79]

18 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Well maybe now that Will is back, the writers will write him and Sami reaching an understanding again. Eventually. With him dead there's no hope of them being close. Now there is.

Exactly, plus, Sami is only getting back from Will, what she did unto others for years and that includes her own mother. She used to treat Marlena badly, just like Will treated her.  She used to slut shame Marlena. I remember how she ranted about Marlena, calling her a whore, in front of Caroline, forgetting, how her uncle Bo came into the world.  Caroline quietly pointed that out to her.    Will never committed the felonies that Sami pulled during her villainess period.  I fail to understand how Will is worst than Sami.. Just like Sami had the right to be angry about Marlena's affair.  Will had the same right to be angry about the chaos that Sami brought into his world continuously. I remember when Sami was exposed as Stan by Kate at her aborted wedding to Lucas. Will told her that she ruined everything, like she always did.. He was right to be pissed. His mother hurt everybody that he loved  once again. Billie, Philip, John, Marlena, Abe and  a host of others were affected by her scheme to pose as Stan.  

[kitmerlot1213]

34 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Well maybe now that Will is back, the writers will write him and Sami reaching an understanding again. Eventually. With him dead there's no hope of them being close. Now there is.

Exactly, and I like how CM is playing Will's pain and confusion, especially when he looks at Ari and can't remember his own daughter.  On today's episode, he wants Marlena to work her psychiatric powers over him to help him remember his past and his desperation to get his family back is gorgeously angsty.

LK is selling Kate's guilt over Theo's shooting like a champ but she still isn't going to admit her own culpability so just how grief stricken is she?

I like Tripp's resolve to protect Kayla because she looked out for him and good for Steve for realizing that something was bothering his son.  Keep digging Steve :)

We got another Hope/Claire moment--I loved their walking into Theo's hospital room, Hope's arm comfortingly around Claire.  Yes, they are family :):)

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

Will never committed the felonies that Sami pulled during her villainess period.  I fail to understand how Will is worst than Sami.

For me, it was because he never has any loyalty to her even when other people have done horrible things to her (Lucas, Kate, EJ, Abby) and he would take their side over hers. Add to the fact, that Lucas played his own part in upseting Will's childhood with his broken relationships and alcoholism, but Sami gets the majority of the blame and all of the venom for it.

Plus I hate Will since he was a child and believe that he is a spoiled, selfish, over-indulged brat who had a pretty much normal childhood for a Salem kid and he was loved and protected by everyone in Salem. It was not until Nick was released from prison before anyone truly was shown to dislike him and then actively tried to hurt him. And they had to assassinate Nick's character by turning him into a homophobe just so someone would pick on poor little Will.

Edited November 27, 2017 by nilyank

[Apprentice79]

25 minutes ago, nilyank said:

For me, it was because he never has any loyalty to her even when other people have done horrible things to her (Lucas, Kate, EJ, Abby) and he would take their side over hers. Add to the fact, that Lucas played his own part in upseting Will's childhood with his broken relationships and alcoholism, but Sami gets the majority of the blame and all of the venom for it.

Plus I hate Will since he was a child and believe that he is a spoiled, selfish, over-indulged brat who had a pretty much normal childhood for a Salem kid and he was loved and protected by everyone in Salem. It was until Nick was released from prison before anyone truly dislike him and actively tried to hurt him. And they had assassinate Nick's character and turning him into a homophobe just so someone would pick on poor little Will.

Sami has no loyalty to anybody but herself, how you live your life, your child will mimic it.  If he is disloyal, then, he is repeating what was shown to him.

Lucas was not the one that disrupted his life at every turn. Lucas was never exposed for horrific acts, humiliated publicly over and over and over. Plus, Lucas has tried to change his life. Whereas, Sami is always looking after number 1. Lucas did bring chaos into his life, but, it was always in response to whatever scheme Sami cooked up, to keep him from Will.  By the time, that Will had awareness of what was going on, it was Sami that he saw hurting other people, members of his own family.  It is unfair that Sami gets most of Will's ire, but, she brings it on herself.  

Nick's character assassination began with Melanie and continued as the years went on..

The show has shown Will being loyal to his mom in the past. He defended her against kate's vitriol before as a kid.  He told Lucas that Sami acted out due to her insecurity and that she needed understanding.  

Edited November 27, 2017 by Apprentice79

[worleybird]

Loved Sami bringing up The Monkey's Paw. Reminded me of TWOP days when TMP was referred to on just about every page!

[nilyank]

15 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

By the time, that Will had awareness of what was going on, it was Sami that he saw hurting other people, members of his own family.  It is unfair that Sami gets most of Will's ire, but, she brings it on herself.  

Which would be fine when Will was still a child. However, as an adult for the most part, it was when he was truly nasty to her.

Unlike Marlena and Sami's relationship which was marked and damaged by years of them being kept apart in Sami's childhood, Sami was always there for Will and he could fault her many, many things, but he never doubted that she loved him. Yes,  Sami has embarassed him but she has always tried to make it up to him and has rarely ever blamed him for his  crappy attitude.

No matter what Will did, no matter who he may have hurt, Sami would always have his back and it would not kill Will to acknowledge that once in a while. 

Sami is not a good person but she loves that kid unconditionally. Will doesn't appreciate that even though it was because of Sami's tenacity that she was able to find Will and bring him back to his daughter. 

[FnkyChkn34]

53 minutes ago, nilyank said:

For me, it was because he never has any loyalty to her even when other people have done horrible things to her (Lucas, Kate, EJ, Abby) and he would take their side over hers. Add to the fact, that Lucas played his own part in upseting Will's childhood with his broken relationships and alcoholism, but Sami gets the majority of the blame and all of the venom for it.

Plus I hate Will since he was a child and believe that he is a spoiled, selfish, over-indulged brat who had a pretty much normal childhood for a Salem kid and he was loved and protected by everyone in Salem. It was not until Nick was released from prison before anyone truly was shown to dislike him and then actively tried to hurt him. And they had to assassinate Nick's character by turning him into a homophobe just so someone would pick on poor little Will.

Sorry, I got distracted here and thought you were describing Sami...

[Apprentice79]

17 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Which would be fine when Will was still a child. However, as an adult for the most part, it was when he was truly nasty to her.

Unlike Marlena and Sami's relationship which was marked and damaged by years of them being kept apart in Sami's childhood, Sami was always there for Will and he could fault her many, many things, but he never doubted that she loved him. Yes,  Sami has embarassed him but she has always tried to make it up to him and has rarely ever blamed him for his  crappy attitude.

No matter what Will did, no matter who he may have hurt, Sami would always have his back and it would not kill Will to acknowledge that once in a while. 

Sami is not a good person but she loves that kid unconditionally. Will doesn't appreciate that even though it was because of Sami's tenacity that she was able to find Will and bring him back to his daughter. 

I am not saying that Will was never a jerk to his mom, but, it comes with the territory, when you are a mother.  A parent is supposed to give you unconditional love.  I do think that the show tend to play up the bad aspect of a the Will/ Sami relationship, instead of letting it evolve. The show has done that with Marlena/Sami for years. Sami made peace with her and John over the affair, after their wedding. As soon as JER came back, he had her hating them all over again and scheming against Carrie and Austin all over again.

Sami like Will has whined about her childhood. Sami was loved and cared for by John as Roman. He loved her with everything that he had.. Sami had Diana and Isabella as mother figures. Carrie held the family together and the Brady family had her back as a child. If anything, Will's childhood, was more tumultuous than Sami's. John never fought for custody of Sami and Eric, he could have, since they were the only father that they knew. Roman died when they were a couple months old....John raised them for 7 years.   Sami and Eric did not go along with Roman and Marlena willingly.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Apprentice79

[pau]

3 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

I am not saying that Will was never a jerk to his mom, but, it comes with the territory, when you are a mother.  A parent is supposed to give you unconditional love.  I do think that the show tend to play up the bad aspect of a the Will/ Sami relationship, instead of letting it evolve. The show has done that with Marlena/Sami for years. Sami made peace with her and John over the affair, after their wedding. As soon as JER came back, he had her hating them all over again and scheming against Carrie and Austin all over again.

Sami never hated her mother..she was bitter about Marlena's actions..(in her mind abandoning her for a family with Belle and John), John yeah she hated him and blamed him for destroying the family she wanted so much but not Marlena..Actually her feelings about Marlena were really up and down..She is the one who mourned the most Marlena when Marlena was on death row, then dead and supposed to be a serial killer.. She is the one who defended the most Marlena (with John) when Marlena was revealed as a serial killer..

[Apprentice79]

Just now, pau said:

Sami never hated her mother..she was bitter about Marlena's actions..(in her mind abandoning her for a family with Belle and John), John yeah she hated him and blamed him for destroying the family she wanted so much but not Marlena..Actually her feelings about Marlena were really up and down..She is the one who mourned the most Marlena when Marlena was on death row, then dead and supposed to be a serial killer.. She is the one who defended the most Marlena (with John) when Marlena was revealed as a serial killer..

Sami hating John bothered me a lot and that is what really made me dislike her. He was a good dad to her, Eric and Carrie..

[pau]

7 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Sami hating John bothered me a lot and that is what really made me dislike her. He was a good dad to her, Eric and Carrie..

I know that, i read your post..lol..but fair or unfair she blamed above all John, Marlena actually she loves her fiercely but was often bitter about Marlena's clingy love for everything John..And yet all over the years Sami's feelings for John stayed ambiguous..

Edited November 27, 2017 by pau

[pau]

Sami is the most fierce Will's cheerleader, she is the one who defend him the most, who saved him several times, who always has his back but often her actions are twisted and destructive in a way despite her intentions..and Will respond by being the most abusive and cold and bitter he can with her..quite sadly ironic..

Edited November 27, 2017 by pau

[TigerLynx]

Will did commit a felony when he shot EJ, and Lucas took the fall for him.  I don't have a problem with Will being upset with Sami about things she did, but Will never holds anyone else (Kate, Lucas, etc.) accountable.  He blames Sami for everything.  However, when Nick was blackmailing Will, Will went to Sami for help.  Then when Sami ends up on trial because of the video that was made when she was trying to help Will, Will tells Sonny he isn't going to cover for Sami.  I'm glad Sami has her son back, but the way Will treats Sami really annoys me.

[teacake]

Disgusted by the Tripp/Steve scenes today.  Why is Steve so insistent on making excuses for what Tripp did to his wife, and speaking for Kayla?  The show trying to make Tripp into the victim here is absurd, because he's never been held accountable for what he did.  And these scenes are getting repetitive.

Quote

LK is selling Kate's guilt over Theo's shooting like a champ but she still isn't going to admit her own culpability so just how grief stricken is she?

This is the problem with the whole story for me.  Kate's guilt is much more believable than Tripp's ever was, he hasn't admitted what he did, so everyone acting like she's horrible and he's Jesus for suddenly wanting to protect the person he was content to destroy five minutes ago doesn't wash.

Edited November 27, 2017 by lska

[Silver Raven]

Jesus, Abe, GET OVER YOURSELF.

Does Will think sitting in the Town Square won't have tons of people wandering up to him that he doesn't recognize?

[buffynut]

A question to you guys who've been watching for continuously for years... Is Abe acting in character?

I keep trying to reconcile the Abe of "Abe and Lexie", a couple I loved in the 80's/90's, with Abe currently on screen.  I just keep feeling that his actions are over-the-top or out of character.  And now he's gone and made me feel sorry for Hope, who I've barely started tolerating again.  The firing really annoys me since I liked the fact that a woman, albeit the one who shot Stefano, was appointed the job of commissioner.  Will she get to go back to her old position?  Or is she now unemployed. And I really hope Rafe doesn't get the job. But who else is there?  Other than Eli or Lani.  So it will probably be Rafe. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by buffynut

[Apprentice79]

26 minutes ago, buffynut said:

A question to you guys who've been watching for continuously for years... Is Abe acting in character?

I keep trying to reconcile the Abe of "Abe and Lexie", a couple I loved in the 80's/90's, with Abe currently on screen.  I just keep feeling that his actions are over-the-top or out of character.  And now he's gone and made me feel sorry for Hope, who I've barely started tolerating again.  The firing really annoys me since I liked the fact that a woman, albeit the one who shot Stefano, was appointed the job of commissioner.  Will she get to go back to her old position?  Or is she now unemployed. And I really hope Rafe doesn't get the job. But who else is there?  Other than Eli or Lani.  So it will probably be Rafe. 

Abe is acting out of character. It does not surprise me that he is getting crappy writing. While JJ is getting sympathetic writing. This is why I didn't want Ron to write this type of issue. He is not Agnes Nixon of All My Children. She would have committed to the issue 100%. 

[buffynut]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

Abe is acting out of character. It does not surprise me that he is getting crappy writing. While JJ is getting sympathetic writing. This is why I didn't want Ron to write this type of issue. He is not Agnes Nixon of All My Children. She would have committed to the issue 100%. 

Hopefully the writing will improve, because right now everyone, including Lani, is getting written better than Abe.

[Rowan]

This isn't Abe Carver to me. I mean, I know he is in a highly emotional situation, but something just doesn't feel right. I feel like they've set it up so that JJ isn't necessarily the "bad" guy, and it makes Abe look like he's over the top. 

Poor Lani. So, JJ is going to dump her because he feels guilty? That's kind of a shitty thing to do to her right now, as she is being pretty damn supportive considering the circumstances and the pressure she is receiving from her dad to dump him.

[JBC344]

3 hours ago, buffynut said:

A question to you guys who've been watching for continuously for years... Is Abe acting in character?

I keep trying to reconcile the Abe of "Abe and Lexie", a couple I loved in the 80's/90's, with Abe currently on screen.  I just keep feeling that his actions are over-the-top or out of character.  And now he's gone and made me feel sorry for Hope, who I've barely started tolerating again.  The firing really annoys me since I liked the fact that a woman, albeit the one who shot Stefano, was appointed the job of commissioner.  Will she get to go back to her old position?  Or is she now unemployed. And I really hope Rafe doesn't get the job. But who else is there?  Other than Eli or Lani.  So it will probably be Rafe. 

It is completely out of character.  It is one thing for Abe to be terrified of losing Theo, but Abe has always been a voice of reason and rationale, especially in times of crisis.  Not discounting the fact that Abe was in JJ's position when he shot Brady when he was younger. 

[TigerLynx]

This kind of idiot writing has become regular on soaps nowadays.  There doesn't always have to be a bad guy.  They could easily write all involved as flawed characters who make mistakes instead of what they are doing with Abe, but that would actually require effort on the writers part.

[Apprentice79]

39 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

It is completely out of character.  It is one thing for Abe to be terrified of losing Theo, but Abe has always been a voice of reason and rationale, especially in times of crisis.  Not discounting the fact that Abe was in JJ's position when he shot Brady when he was younger. 

When you see your child like that, reason goes out the window. I think that he feels guilty for not protecting his boy. He let Lexie down and Theo down. No matter how old, your child gets, the need to protect and defend them from danger is always there. It is instinctual, like breathing air. It is easier for Abe  to lash out at JJ in his grief. In time, he will calm down and reflect on his actions. The writing is not nuanced enough to reflect that point of view. It is Abe, the villain, protecting his criminal son and JJ, the poor victim. Yes, people have referred to Theo on different message boards, as a criminal. I am surprised they have not called him a thug. It does not surprise me at all.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Apprentice79

[Rowan]

46 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

When you see your child like that, reason goes out the window. I think that he feels guilty for not protecting his boy. He let Lexie down and Theo down. No matter how old, your child gets, the need to protect and defend them from danger is always there. It is instinctual, like breathing air. It is easier for Abe  to lash out at JJ in his grief. In time, he will calm down and reflect on his actions. The writing is not nuanced enough to reflect that point of view. It is Abe, the villain, protecting his criminal son and JJ, the poor victim. Yes, people have referred to Theo on different message boards, as a criminal. I am surprised they have not called him a thug. It does not surprise me at all.

I get Abe is being protective, and JJ's dumbass was out of line going to Theo's hospital room. I even felt like no matter how well meaning certain Salemites might have been, they should have given the man space to get his emotions together before they descended on him. I just think the firing of Hope is starting to push it too far. I'm sure he'll calm down at some point, but it seems so knee-jerk and unlike him even given these circumstances. Plus, I hate to say it, but JR has been a little over the top with some of his line deliveries to me. But, hell, I'm sure he relishes getting to do some actual meaningful scenes. So, I'll forgive most of that. I just hope they even Abe out a little. 

[Frozendiva]

Abe really isn't being written all that well. Yes, his son was shot and is in a coma. The situation is not black and white. Theo was not innocent and was breaking in to a building. Yes, Kate influenced him to do so, but he still could have said no and simply alerted the police.  Abe really isn't a villain although his behaviour is a bit over the top. He was a cop for many years and was in similar situations. I don't know if he can unilaterally fire Hope for not firing 'JJ' as Abe wants, and right that second. The Mayor is not King or the Grand PooBah. Internal Affairs or whatever the city's investigation unit into a police officer discharging his weapon should be conducting an investigation into this. And that takes time. JJ can probably eventually sue the city of Salem.

Lani is an adult woman and it is up to her to dump JJ - if she wants to.

Of course the Will hypnosis is not going to work the first time.

I FF'd through Claire's song.

I guess I really didn't miss the show for two days.

[Star Aristille]

4 hours ago, Rowan said:

I feel like they've set it up so that JJ isn't necessarily the "bad" guy

Which is good, because he isn't the bad guy.  What happened was a terrible accident, and it's been acknowledged more than once.

4 hours ago, JBC344 said:

It is completely out of character.  It is one thing for Abe to be terrified of losing Theo, but Abe has always been a voice of reason and rationale, especially in times of crisis.  Not discounting the fact that Abe was in JJ's position when he shot Brady when he was younger. 

 

4 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

This kind of idiot writing has become regular on soaps nowadays.  There doesn't always have to be a bad guy.  They could easily write all involved as flawed characters who make mistakes instead of what they are doing with Abe, but that would actually require effort on the writers part.

To be fair, I think that this is intentional.  Today, both Lani and Hope dropped mentions, however offhand, that this isn't like Abe, both chalking it up to his grief and his fear, so I think it's meant to show that Abe isn't acting like himself.  He's still an outright douchebag in how he's dealing with his emotions, but I think it's intentional to show how the crisis is so bad, even he can't be himself.  Lots of people are like that when situations like this arise.

I'm confident that after some time to calm down and compress, even he'll realize that he's going over the line and will regret how he's acted.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Star Aristille

[msrachelj]

does the police commissioner/chief of police, whatever (unbelievable) job title hope holds, serve at the discretion (what was the word abe used?) of the mayor? not where i live or have ever lived. the mayor is more like a figure head, like the queen. not much real power on his own. 

 

as an aside: who is the hair stylist on this show? they need to be fired. i can not think of one woman whose hair is as beautiful as it can be. the more mature women look horrible in their long unstyled hair (hope) kate looks like a nutcase, maggie , well if that is her real hair at her age i am over the top jealous since mine starting thinning at 40. there are no words for jennifer and her powdery gray stuck to her head mess. and so on.

and i have to mention. why the hell is gabs always always always dressed like a (ok, high end) hooker? 

[swtrgrl]

2 hours ago, msrachelj said:

d

and i have to mention. why the hell is gabs always always always dressed like a (ok, high end) hooker? 

I know, right? I love Camilla but she needs to say no to these outfits. Jeez. 

Hey, I'm going to meet my BFF/Baby Daddy who doesn't remember me...and introduce him to our kid...who might be traumatized b/c after 2 years of thinking her daddy is dead, he's here...but he doesn't remember her. I know...I'll wear a super tight and short dress with a cleavage cut out. That'll make him remember me when we hug.

[worleybird]

Here in Chicago the Police Department Superintendent (not called Commissioner) is definitely serving at the whim of the mayor. 

[sugarbaker design]

3 hours ago, msrachelj said:

as an aside: who is the hair stylist on this show?

there are no words for jennifer and her powdery gray stuck to her head mess. and so on.

After Melissa Reeves's impassioned defense of Chick Filet during the same sex marriage issue, it's no wonder the gays and lesbians in the hair/make-up/wardrobe department have given MR special attention!

[JBC344]

I think with Gabi, wardrobe is trying to convey fashionista, but agree they do miss the mark a lot of the time. 

They need to just hire LK as a wardrobe consultant. 

[teacake]

16 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

This kind of idiot writing has become regular on soaps nowadays.  There doesn't always have to be a bad guy.  They could easily write all involved as flawed characters who make mistakes instead of what they are doing with Abe, but that would actually require effort on the writers part.

It seems like a way to avoid writing other characters with accountability for their actions.

For me, making a hurting father into more of a villain in the story than the person who pulled the trigger is really uncomfortable.  I wish DAYS would tackle these issues more responsibly, if they have to hot button topics like police shooting a black teenager.  There's a lot to unpack in the issue and what they are doing with it seems pretty backwards, IMO.

[kitmerlot1213]

1 hour ago, lska said:

It seems like a way to avoid writing other characters with accountability for their actions.

For me, making a hurting father into more of a villain in the story than the person who pulled the trigger is really uncomfortable.  I wish DAYS would tackle these issues more responsibly, if they have to hot button topics like police shooting a black teenager.  There's a lot to unpack in the issue and what they are doing with it seems pretty backwards, IMO.

Here's the thing--to me, the only villain in this story is Kate, who won't admit that she was the one who asked Theo to look into the saboteur of DiMera.  Abe is reacting like a grieving dad but he's also wielding his power as mayor which is grossly unethical but again, I know I can forgive him because he is so devastated.

I'm also kind of loving that the Hortons are rightfully taking the heat for their actions--we all know JJ didn't mean to shoot Theo but he still has to be held accountable.  The same thing with Hope--yes, JJ needs to be investigated for the shooting but he violated procedure by going to visit Theo and Abe wants accountability.  It seems like the Hortons have a hard time facing the consequences of their actions.

And where is Theo in all of this?  Is he the vulnerable kid who can't make choices for himself or is he a young man who chose to do something illegal for the greater good i.e helping his family?

I also liked that we got the Will/Kate reunion and we got to see just how deep Susan's brainwashing of Will has gone--he is having hard time seeing the good in his mom--YIKES!!

The Eric/Sami conversation was excellent especially getting to see just how desperate Sami is to get Will's memories back.  Kate's right that Sami's matured--somewhat--but there's still that wild child in there.

[BlackMamba]

JJ/Lani can you two stop ripping my heart out!!! ??? I'm not going to lie, I was no fan of this pairing when they got together last year, but they have been each other's ride-or-die the last several months and their chemistry has come along when it comes to romantically.  Plus I've grown to liking Lani since the writing change.  She's no longer some desperate, man stealing,  jump the bed woman (leave this to the Kates of the show ?). I'm just torn about them.  Damn you Abe!!! ? 

Abe giving Rafe the commissioner job. ? Don't tell me this wasn't a sexist because it was.  Hope was working her investigation and yes JJ is her cousin, but she made a point: let the investigation run its course.  But Abe is doing this out of spite because Hope is a Horton and being JJ's cousin she's in Abe's crosshairs.  I get what pain he's going through as a father and holding power as mayor to "do the right thing" but he's doing all the moves based off emotions and not logic.  Ugh just when I was getting to like Hope as commissioner, some sexist writing happens to her character again.  This story, however, is bringing out my emotions as a minority and a woman so RC is writing some gripping stuff. 

Chad get somewhere and STFU.  I never thought I'd get to a place I'm rooting for Andre against Chad.  Chad has been ridding Andre's ass hard since Theo was shot.  I can't wait for the eggyolks he will get once this is over! 

The Kate and Will scenes were nicely written.  I still want Kate to go down for using Theo for her bs but it's scenes like that make me warm to her as a character. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by BlackMamba

[worleybird]

When Kayla told Abe she had consulted a specialist at Gaffney Medical Center, I though for a second we might have a daytime/primetime crossover since the actual name of "Chicago Med" is Gaffney and Salem is 'near' Chicago. But I guess not. 

[tribeca]

Kate and Will scene was so well done.   This version of Will seems so much younger.     

    It’s very understandable that Chad would not trust Andre.  I don’t understand how anyone trusts that man.  Even though Andre is innocent here he has done a lot in the past.     You don’t just forget about that.   That said Chad was so good in that argument  .   That’s the Chad I want to see more of.    

     Sami’s plans never seem to work.  This latest one is a little scary to me.  JMHO 

[JBC344]

15 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Kate and Will scene was so well done.   This version of Will seems so much younger.     

    It’s very understandable that Chad would not trust Andre.  I don’t understand how anyone trusts that man.  Even though Andre is innocent here he has done a lot in the past.     You don’t just forget about that.   That said Chad was so good in that argument  .   That’s the Chad I want to see more of.    

     Sami’s plans never seem to work.  This latest one is a little scary to me.  JMHO 

I feel like the show can never decide how much of Andre's past is real canon and how much is just described as "Andre has done some terrible things", without getting into specifics.  I was actually quite shocked when Abe mentioned a few episodes ago that Andre was responsible for putting Lexie in her grave.  I still think the writing doesn't always reflect that.  There is no way in hell anyone including Kate, Chad, Theo, and Abigail would rightfully have anything to do with someone who "killed", not only Lexie, but also Benjy and Renee.  And the countless others Andre has killed or terrorized. 

I fully understand wanting Thaoo back but I would of rather had them come up with a creative way to bring Tony back than making him Andre. 

[nilyank]

32 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I fully understand wanting Thaoo back but I would of rather had them come up with a creative way to bring Tony back than making him Andre. 

All they had to do, is what they always have done. They should have said it was Andre who was killed after he switched places with Tony.

[Apprentice79]

47 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I feel like the show can never decide how much of Andre's past is real canon and how much is just described as "Andre has done some terrible things", without getting into specifics.  I was actually quite shocked when Abe mentioned a few episodes ago that Andre was responsible for putting Lexie in her grave.  I still think the writing doesn't always reflect that.  There is no way in hell anyone including Kate, Chad, Theo, and Abigail would rightfully have anything to do with someone who "killed", not only Lexie, but also Benjy and Renee.  And the countless others Andre has killed or terrorized. 

I fully understand wanting Thaoo back but I would of rather had them come up with a creative way to bring Tony back than making him Andre. 

Stefano always felt that Tony was not Dimera enough. So, he took Tony and brainwashed him into thinking that he is Andre. That is what the show should have done. Anna could come back and get her man back.

[peachmangosteen]

I don't know Andre's history but I can't bring myself to feel anything but contempt for him just becasue I really don't like that actor. He came off as such a sexist asshole in one of the Day of Days vids I watched.

I find myself not liking Will that much. I don't know, I'm not a fan of CM's acting style.

I'm getting bored tbh. Nothing is happening. Super pumped for some Ben scenes though. He's a riot!

Edited November 28, 2017 by peachmangosteen