S09.E14: Jessa's Engagement

[MarysWetBar]

Jessa was so done with the scavenger hunt before it even started. The expression on her face the entire time cracked me up.

Yes me too! Jessas RBF always cracks me up. She has a lower tolerance for the B.S. than all the others.

[Almost 3000]

I sort of thought that back in the Josh/Anna courtship days (I'm not a terribly loyal viewer - I used to watch the early specials, then occasionally check in for the baby/wedding arcs, so this is my first full season), they said it was the older kids who chaperoned, and since Josh got married at 19 (?), Jana and John David - the Duggars I specifically remember chaperoning - were a few years younger than Jinger is now. But I also think I remember a young Duggar as a chaperone in the backseat of the car while Josh and Anna were holding hands, as people oh-so-naturally do while driving, so maybe the chaperone rules get looser once you're engaged (or about to be)? Though I got the impression that Ben and Jessa's missions trip to South America was with Jinger and some younger siblings, so their chaperone rules (if not their relationship rules) may have gotten more practical with the reality of chaperoning not-long-distance relationships.

I *think* they said back with Josh and Anna that the chaperones did report to the parents, but I doubt all chaperones report equally. (I may be mis-remembering any of this!) Since this "breech" was televised, I do hope that Jinger didn't get in trouble. Maybe she could use "you understood and forgave [bleh] Jill and Derek's slip, so I really thought that under the circumstances it was ok to let it go."

We've actually seen this on the show this season, with JB directing a little kid to stand between Ben and Jessa. I tend to catch it because our youth group leader used to do the same thing sometimes with me and my then-boyfriend, and it's astonishing to me how familiar little bits of the Duggar world (and Sister Wives' purity lessons) echo my own youth group and youth group trip experiences. I knew it was crazy talk, but wasn't aware that it was really a bit outside of what you'd expect from a mainstream church until the message boards of these shows. (At which point, I asked my mom and she was a bit disgusted by things she had no idea others were trying to teach me! My parents would have been disturbed and at a total loss had I bought into a lot of that.)

Totally agree! When I first read that they didn't kiss at the ceremony, I wondered what the odds were of keeping it private to cover a lack of awkwardness. Props to them for doing it a bit their own way either way. I hadn't initially heard that JB and Michelle seemed stunned at the ceremony and were overheard asking TLC about editing it as though they were in on it, but that did make the IG pic a bit more of a statement!

That "stunned" rumor was from a parody blog that somehow went viral. Its not true, well at least that blog source is bogus.

[SmallTownMom]

I thought Ben and Jessa had a very sweet moment when he got down on one knee and asked her to marry him.  Loved Jessa's sincere "yes" (and she didn't say "totally" like her sister, who seems to be stuck in the 80's).  Loved that they hugged.  I think they really wanted to kiss, but couldn't.  How sad.

 

It took alot away from the moment to see Jinger sitting in the back watching them.  Then when they walked outside and the whole damn circus was wating for them, the little kids started saying "they're holding hands!"  Really?  I held hands with a boy when I was about 12 or 13.  It didn't ruin my life. Then we hear Michelle's  stupid baby voice.  Just ugh.  Let your adult kids be adults!

 

I don't think Jessa was at all surprised since she was all dressed up and made up.  Still, I liked the ending of this episode.

 

My own engagement was a little more "real life."  I had just finished cleaning the litter box when my now-husband knocked on my door.  I opened the door whlie holding a garbage bag with dirty cat litter, and he handed me a ring.  We laugh about it now!  30 years and going strong :)

[ginger90]

When Ben and Jessa walked out of the chapel, everyone approached them but not one hug at that moment. Looking at the ring came first. Sad.

[Shugardrawers]

Wait.  I don't understand.  WHY is it ok for say Jinger to hold hands with Bin while praying but NOT Jessa?  That makes no sense.  If they want to stick to the rules then no male should be holding hands with any female not his fiancee.  How does this NOT tempt Jinger and Bin but DOES tempt Jessa and Bin?  Especially when Jinger isn't interested?  

[DamWrite]

Wait.  I don't understand.  WHY is it ok for say Jinger to hold hands with Bin while praying but NOT Jessa?  That makes no sense.  If they want to stick to the rules then no male should be holding hands with any female not his fiancee.  How does this NOT tempt Jinger and Bin but DOES tempt Jessa and Bin?  Especially when Jinger isn't interested?  

Shame on you!  You're trying to be logical in an illogical world.  It's off to the prayer closet for you.  Geez, applying logic and questioning.  What comes next?  Thinking for yourself?  

[Shugardrawers]

My own quickie engagment story:  Future hubs came home from work, stripped to his dirty drawers, plopped down in a chair and said "so...ya wanna get married?"  Obviously I said yes.  No stupid scavenger hunts, no lame songs, nothing.  Just a man asking the woman he loved to marry him.  It worked for me and still makes a funny story.  These elaborate set ups aren't necessary if you REALLY just want to be married and NOT just have a wedding.  It's not about the moment, it's about the rest of your lives.  Some women may want/need that but I didn't.  I just knew he was the one and I wanted to marry him.  I didn't care about the dirty underwear or anything else.  Only that he wanted to make a commitment.  These elaborate set ups are NOT necessary when all you really want is to spend your lives together.

[msblossom]

I'm sure Jessa would have preferred a far less elaborate proposal.

I do wish Ben would have edited down his plans to JD flys Jessa and Jinjer to Eureka Springs where they meet up with Joe who drives them to Thorncrown chapel. No other family members present or involved.

[WalrusGirl]

That "stunned" rumor was from a parody blog that somehow went viral. Its not true, well at least that blog source is bogus.

Ah. I wasn't sure how much of it was fake - as I recall, the "stunned" part was in the actual post, whereas the other stuff that got more press was in a comment "signed" as the blog's author but not posted while logged in, as other comments from "her" were. So I figured the salacious bits were posted by an unrelated troll and was annoyed that the press attributed them to the original author when it wasn't done while logged in. Didn't realize the entire blog/post was definitely fake. (Though, really, any honest fundie blog would be pretty indistinguishable from trolling fiction...)

Edited November 13, 2014 by WalrusGirl

[Almost 3000]

Ah. I wasn't sure how much of it was fake - as I recall, the "stunned" part was in the actual post, whereas the other stuff that got more press was in a comment "signed" as the blog's author but not posted while logged in, as other comments from "her" were. So I figured the salacious bits were posted by an unrelated troll and was annoyed that the press attributed them to the original author when it wasn't done while logged in. Didn't realize the entire blog/post was definitely fake. (Though, really, any honest fundie blog would be pretty indistinguishable from trolling fiction...)

Yes, the whole blog is fake and so apparently were some of the comments particularly one poster that was quoted quite a bit by several gossip sites and rags. The blog does hit the fundie highlights which made it amusing and disturbing at the same time. 

[NausetGirl]

My own quickie engagment story:  Future hubs came home from work, stripped to his dirty drawers, plopped down in a chair and said "so...ya wanna get married?"  Obviously I said yes.  No stupid scavenger hunts, no lame songs, nothing.  Just a man asking the woman he loved to marry him.  It worked for me and still makes a funny story.  These elaborate set ups aren't necessary if you REALLY just want to be married and NOT just have a wedding.  It's not about the moment, it's about the rest of your lives.  Some women may want/need that but I didn't.  I just knew he was the one and I wanted to marry him.  I didn't care about the dirty underwear or anything else.  Only that he wanted to make a commitment.  These elaborate set ups are NOT necessary when all you really want is to spend your lives together.

 

I think the Duggars have these elaborate proposals for this exact reason. Unlike most couples, they don't spend lots of time together and talk about everything under the sun. They don't live together before marriage or even just stay over at one another's apartments from time to time and have private conversations for hours. There's zero chance that Derick could look over at Jill after plopping into a chair after work and say "Well, how about it? I think it's time for us to get married. We've been together for X months and I think it's been really good. And I love you. Whaddya you think, honey?" They have these set-ups because they have to. It's like a graduation ceremony for them - on to the next step.

[GEML]

And the Duggar engagements are still less over the top than the Bates girls' have been. So it isn't TLC driving it - it's their culture.

[Jellybeans]

When Ben and Jessa walked out of the chapel, everyone approached them but not one hug at that moment. Looking at the ring came first. Sad.

Hmm...was thinking back to a couple of engagements I was presented for and it seems the bride stuck her hand out first, lol... no chance for a hug. I think I did the same thing...

But yes it is sad.

[TobyBelle]

I don't think it is only a Duggar thing to have big proposal production. My engagement was unexpected to the both of us. I joke my then husband-to-be proposed under duress. Nothing planned and no one else was around. Ever since, it seems like people I know have groups of their friends and family involved with the proposal day. They're setting up the site and the ambiance. If it's not at some nice park, they do it at some venue like a museum. I always wonder if they have to rent that out. Even asking someone to the senior prom has become a big production too. Who can come up with the best promposal? Seeing Derick and Ben's elaborate proposals weren't unusual to me. My question is really when did these elaborate proposals become trendy as well as gender reveal parties?

[GEML]

As I've said, my son asked his prom date (and they are only friends) using a scavenger hunt. No airplanes were involved, though.

[NausetGirl]

I'm sure Jessa would have preferred a far less elaborate proposal.

I do wish Ben would have edited down his plans to JD flys Jessa and Jinjer to Eureka Springs where they meet up with Joe who drives them to Thorncrown chapel. No other family members present or involved.

 

Yes. Personally I can't imagine, and wouldn't have remotely wanted, my parents and all my siblings showing up at my proposal. And I only have 5 sibs. Boob's TLC check must be calculated each week by Number of Immediate Family Members Appearing on Camera.

[NausetGirl]

As I've said, my son asked his prom date (and they are only friends) using a scavenger hunt. No airplanes were involved, though.

 

No kidding. Sounds like Asking-Someone-to-the-Prom and Gender-Reveals are the latest fads. Anything to get people to buy something. Another Hallmark holiday. What's next? Going-to-the-mailbox? I can really only think of two words. Good grief.

[Shugardrawers]

All that's been said is true. Very true.  But ya know what?  I'll take my dirty drawers but sincerely meant proposal any day.  I had the right man, we'd spent enough time ALONE to know we wanted the same things and I knew he was my partner for life, dirty drawers and all!  Obviously I said yes and 15 years later I don't regret a second!  Mainly because I'd kissed him and knew there was a sexual attraction there (ok we did more I admit it). BEFORE I was stuck married to a man who couldn't get my "juices flowing".  You don't have to have sex but a little physical contact can tell you a LOT about whether he'll be the one you want to hummina hummina with after marriage!

[Portia]

Ultimately, I think the proposal ritual should be whatever feels natural and comfortable for the couple. Both of my sons-in-law put some thought into their proposals and did a nice job of tailoring them to the personality and preferences of the bride-to-be. One of them invited the siblings and parents to be part of the surprise; that may seem weird to some people, but it made perfect sense for that daughter, and she still talks about how much she loved having us there. I know my shy son plans to propose to his extremely low-key GF someday, and when that happens, I can pretty much guarantee it's going to be very simple and private, because that's the kind of people they are.

 

The only thing that strikes me funny about the modern trend of elaborate proposals is the sense that people are trying to one-up each other and that it's not about the milestone itself but about the social media spectacle. And when you factor in the circus atmosphere of reality TV? . . . well, there's just nothing "real" about it, is there? I for one cannot imagine living my life like that.  

[RazzleberryPie]

Dang, Michelle is telling Jessa she loves, her but giving her major Mean Girl Stink Eye when Jessa comes out in that stripperific (my countenance is jesting, because I haven't purposed to turn my snarky spirit into a sweet one) knee skimming black jersey dress. Now I see where Jinger gets her eye-rolling skills.

[TomServo]

I just now watched the episode, and what stood out to me was that more than once they brought up that Grandma had suggested Thorncrown as a beautiful place for a wedding.  Grandma already knows what type of big spectacle weddings the Duggars and TLC have put on this show before, and knowing that she still had the gumption to mention, "Oh, wouldn't this tastefully-sized venue be a beautiful place to get married, hint, hint."

 

But of course the clan dismissed it as, "It's way too small for a wedding" even though people have weddings there ALL THE TIME and there is a larger building on the site that can handle 300 people.

Edited November 22, 2014 by TomServo

[Ilovemylabs]

Ultimately, I think the proposal ritual should be whatever feels natural and comfortable for the couple. Both of my sons-in-law put some thought into their proposals and did a nice job of tailoring them to the personality and preferences of the bride-to-be. One of them invited the siblings and parents to be part of the surprise; that may seem weird to some people, but it made perfect sense for that daughter, and she still talks about how much she loved having us there. I know my shy son plans to propose to his extremely low-key GF someday, and when that happens, I can pretty much guarantee it's going to be very simple and private, because that's the kind of people they are.

 

The only thing that strikes me funny about the modern trend of elaborate proposals is the sense that people are trying to one-up each other and that it's not about the milestone itself but about the social media spectacle. And when you factor in the circus atmosphere of reality TV? . . . well, there's just nothing "real" about it, is there? I for one cannot imagine living my life like that.  

I agree.  When my kids were little a McDonald's birthday party was simple and all the rage (easy for Mom!).  My grandkids go to much more elaborate parties now with ponies. clowns, bouncy houses, elaborate goody bags, and more.  It seems like everyone wants something unique and a little better than the last party.  It would be interesting to see what would happen if these modern kids had an old fashioned at home party with pin the tail on the donkey, cake and ice cream, simple games, and those 'cracker' things you pulled at both ends that snapped.  There was a paper hat inside usually.  Those are the parties in my memory.

[alegtostandon]

I love reading others engagement stories, and am glad I am not the only one who did not have an elaborate engagement - Mr. Tostandon and I had lived together for a year, then his dad died unexpectedly and he flew back to his hometown for the funeral.  On the way home from the airport after picking him up, he said 'I realized with this how quickly you could lose someone you love, so we better get married.'.  Of course, I said yes...He didn't even have a ring, we went out and bought one a few weeks later...and like SmallTownMom, after 30 years, still happily married!

[GEML]

I agree. When my kids were little a McDonald's birthday party was simple and all the rage (easy for Mom!). My grandkids go to much more elaborate parties now with ponies. clowns, bouncy houses, elaborate goody bags, and more. It seems like everyone wants something unique and a little better than the last party. It would be interesting to see what would happen if these modern kids had an old fashioned at home party with pin the tail on the donkey, cake and ice cream, simple games, and those 'cracker' things you pulled at both ends that snapped. There was a paper hat inside usually. Those are the parties in my memory.

Funny you should say this, as among many of my friends in the elementary set, this is all the rage. Hosting a "real" party at a home is considered a much more "prestigious" invite than being offsite and hiring/paying for things.

(Because one thing that still is very fashionable is competing, whether it's being "simple and old fashioned!!)

[NausetGirl]

Funny you should say this, as among many of my friends in the elementary set, this is all the rage. Hosting a "real" party at a home is considered a much more "prestigious" invite than being offsite and hiring/paying for things.

(Because one thing that still is very fashionable is competing, whether it's being "simple and old fashioned!!)

 

Very, very true. The pendulum always swings back. When I was a child, we celebrated our birthdays with our parents, siblings, grandparents etc. Then the trend moved toward home birthday parties with friends and entertainment. That moved on to catered parties at fast food places, Chuck E Cheese etc. Families were considered to be cheap or having money troubles if they did the party themselves at home. Even later we moved on to elaborate parties at museums, zoos, skating rinks etc involving quite a lot of expense. And now the fashion has returned to parties at home with Mom making everything? Glad to hear it I guess, but that pendulum is always swinging.

Edited November 22, 2014 by NausetGirl

[Barb23]

Have they ever said how Boob proposed to MEchelle? I don't think it's ever been mentioned. Since we've heard over & over how they met and got married, nothing has been mentioned of their proposal. Maybe they went a little further than they should have in celebrating the proposal & that's why it's not mentioned.

Add my proposal to the list of simple funny proposals. My soon to be husband's car broke down on our way to the place he was going to ask me. It was where we had our first date, a walk around the nearby harbor. (I knew the proposal was coming having picked out the ring but wasn't sure when.) It was in May so he didn't have a jacket but had just stuck the ring loose in his pocket out of the box. Think he put the ring box in a bag in the car. The car had to be towed & he didn't want to lose the ring so I ended up taking the ring home in the box in my purse without being asked. It all turned out well on the next date. Some people may have taken it as an omen, but it brought us good luck as we have just celebrated our 30 yr anniversary and we have had many laughs over it.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I don't know that this whole side-thread of proposals won't get deleted soon, but as I think it's rather sweet and hope it gets to stay, I'll add mine...

 

My husband and I had been dating for only about three months, and I could tell he was getting very serious. Even though neither of us was terribly young (25 & 27), I was his first girlfriend, and had only ever been on a handful of random dates in the past myself. Nonetheless, as we were so very different from each other,  I was still really nervous about whether we had enough in common for a really long-term relationship. Anyway, one evening he was getting into the serious talk again and I tried to dissuade him by pointing out that he probably just thought he was so in love with me as we had been each others' "firsts", and I was young and slim and reasonably pretty, but somewhere down the line I was inevitably going to get old and less than attractive, and he wouldn't want to be stuck with me (or something along those lines). And his completely unplanned response was that to prove how serious he was, he was asking me, right now, to marry him. Of course, I was taken aback and not at all ready to accept, but having asked, he was, in his mind, totally committed to marrying me, and tickled me (I am deathly ticklish...simply cannot endure it) until I said "yes".

 

He went shopping for a ring the next day, and though while we were "engaged", I was still having doubts. A couple of weeks later I tried to give the ring back, but as we didn't actually break up, he said he still considered himself engaged and still intended to marry me, so he wouldn't take it. I didn't wear it, though.

 

Fast forward another six months or so, and we had gone to his 10th high school reunion. By that point I had realized that while we certainly were very different from each other, and while I wasn't what one might call "madly in love" with him, at least that meant I wasn't blind to his faults...he was not going anywhere, and was, in fact, an incredibly good, hard-working, frighteningly intelligent, generous, honest and trustworthy type of guy. Not always the easiest person to get along with, but with a core of pure integrity. So I had taken the ring along and had it with me. He was introducing me to some of his old friends as his girlfriend, so I took him aside, took the ring out of my bag, and told him that if he wanted to introduce me as his fiancée, that was alright.

 

And we will be celebrating our 30th anniversary in January.

[NausetGirl]

I don't know that this whole side-thread of proposals won't get deleted soon, but as I think it's rather sweet and hope it gets to stay, I'll add mine...

 

My husband and I had been dating for only about three months, and I could tell he was getting very serious. Even though neither of us was terribly young (25 & 27), I was his first girlfriend, and had only ever been on a handful of random dates in the past myself. Nonetheless, as we were so very different from each other,  I was still really nervous about whether we had enough in common for a really long-term relationship. Anyway, one evening he was getting into the serious talk again and I tried to dissuade him by pointing out that he probably just thought he was so in love with me as we had been each others' "firsts", and I was young and slim and reasonably pretty, but somewhere down the line I was inevitably going to get old and less than attractive, and he wouldn't want to be stuck with me (or something along those lines). And his completely unplanned response was that to prove how serious he was, he was asking me, right now, to marry him. Of course, I was taken aback and not at all ready to accept, but having asked, he was, in his mind, totally committed to marrying me, and tickled me (I am deathly ticklish...simply cannot endure it) until I said "yes".

 

He went shopping for a ring the next day, and though while we were "engaged", I was still having doubts. A couple of weeks later I tried to give the ring back, but as we didn't actually break up, he said he still considered himself engaged and still intended to marry me, so he wouldn't take it. I didn't wear it, though.

 

Fast forward another six months or so, and we had gone to his 10th high school reunion. By that point I had realized that while we certainly were very different from each other, and while I wasn't what one might call "madly in love" with him, at least that meant I wasn't blind to his faults...he was not going anywhere, and was, in fact, an incredibly good, hard-working, frighteningly intelligent, generous, honest and trustworthy type of guy. Not always the easiest person to get along with, but with a core of pure integrity. So I had taken the ring along and had it with me. He was introducing me to some of his old friends as his girlfriend, so I took him aside, took the ring out of my bag, and told him that if he wanted to introduce me as his fiancée, that was alright.

 

And we will be celebrating our 30th anniversary in January.

 

A terrific story, jyannan. Just terrific. What a shame that none of the Duggar kids or any others that believe as they do will be able to share the same experience. Of really getting to know the person they marry through being with, talking with that person - privately. Out of earshot - and eyesight - of others and where you could talk about how you both truly feel about issues important to you both.

[Ilovemylabs]

Funny you should say this, as among many of my friends in the elementary set, this is all the rage. Hosting a "real" party at a home is considered a much more "prestigious" invite than being offsite and hiring/paying for things.

(Because one thing that still is very fashionable is competing, whether it's being "simple and old fashioned!!)

LOL!!!!!  Everything old is new again.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ilovemylabs

[leighroda]

I wonder if the reason that the reason for the private first kiss is that it wasn't the first kiss and so Jim Bob couldnt proclaim it as the first kiss. I'm kidding... Even if it wasn't the first i don't think he'd have any problem proclaiming it as such regardless.

[joanofarch4]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least; the tension between Jessa and JB is palpable at times (like when she threatened to elope -- she was serious -- and in that very odd exchange on the bus en route to Erin Bates' wedding re: lovesickness).  Her tears at the proposal were all about "thank you for rescuing me from this dog-and-pony show."

[NikSac]

Side hugs seem to be a Gothard thing (Anna's family does them, and sometimes the Bates, but they less so.) There is probably some explanation given, such as, "we only give men a side hug" to other Fundie groups in a casual way which would just be seen as a particular subgroups quirk, just as some may wear head coverings.

For instance, many Orthodox Jews do not touch any person of the opposite sex other than their spouse and a quick explanation suffices. In NYC, a woman might extend her hand to a Jewish gentleman at a business meeting and he might say, "I'm sorry, I can't" and she says, "Of course. My apologies" and they begin the meeting without thinking twice about it.

I imagine quick conversations like that take place in the Duggars interactions with people too.

 

Geml I always appreciate your thorough explanations, thank you!  I try to be pretty aware of cultural differences in various settings but I must admit I often have a hard time understanding the social/religious/cultural differences between the Duggars and others. I have such a hard time imagining the business meeting you described.  Don't get me wrong, I would love for it to be that way and I'm very happy if it is somewhere! I have just been in so many situations where it was way more awkward than that. Those situations make me wonder how natural a conversation about a "side hug" could be, but your explanation really made sense. If it's not your area of expertise already maybe you should consider a career in cultural awareness/acceptance because you're darn good at it!

[Chalby]

Like many others, it bothers me that Jim Bob announces, "You may kiss the bride". There's such a heavy air of ownership/ or viewing the girls as chattel. He didn't invest the same amount of physical control over Josh and Anna's wedding. And although I appreciate Ben asking Jim Bob for his daughter's hand in marriage, I get the distinct impression that if Jim Bob wasn't keen on the suitor, the girls wouldn't be marrying, period. Is there such a thing as free will for these girls?

[GEML]

No. There isn't.

[Barb23]

For unknown reasons, Boob was the one that got to announce that Josh could kiss Anna FOR THE FIRST TIME, instead of Mr. Keller.

I can picture Boob standing outside the place where Ben & Jessa had their private first kiss screaming "Ben you may now kiss Jessa FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME !! " He would have that goofy creepy smile on his face.

CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL !!!

[Darknight]

Bob is there after the wedding to give permission for his children to finally put slot a into b

[Jellybeans]

I think Jessa and Ben had their first kiss in private so JimBob could not say those words. Am I wrong here? Was he deprived of saying it?

[Barb23]

I think Jessa and Ben had their first kiss in private so JimBob could not say those words. Am I wrong here? Was he deprived of saying it?

My post was only speculation. I'm hoping he didn't get to say it. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

[DoctorWhovian]

I wouldn't be surprised if the not having their first kiss at the altar was to avoid having it on camera. I wouldn't want my first kiss out there for the world to see. Lord knows we would have made fun of it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by DoctorWhovian