S09.E14: Jessa's Engagement

[Barb23]

I'm rewatching the episode this morning & have played the hand holding in the restaurant scene a few times. Just to hear MEchelle squeak to "Daddy" that J&B can't hold hands (during a prayer yet) & it was like she was going to say "Daddy, STOP THEM NOW!!!" Followed by the FU look Jessa gave MEchelle. Priceless. This has got to be one of the best clips in the history of the show & wonder why it wasn't edited out.

I know many of us have commented about how dim Ben is. And he does appear that way. But I was thinking about my brother who would have appeared equally as dim as a teenager. He was very awkward and inarticulate all throughout his teenage years. But my brother grew up, got a masters degree in chemical engineering and has held upper management positions. I'm really starting to think that Ben will mature and grow out of this awkward stage, if given a chance. I hope he keeps up his education.

I hope so too but it's unlikely since he has to provide for a wife & many offspring. I know it can be done but I don't think education is a top priority for him. What a shame.

[GEML]

I imagine that Ben planned things with the help of a TLC producer.  But I would emphasize again that Ben isn't as sheltered as the Duggers are, in terms of things like that -- for instance, it appears, given his wedding party, that he has friends who attended college, and I'm betting he's been part of a church youth group and things like that.  The scavenger hunt idea is very popular right now (admitted, for proms, but whatever...) and I'm betting a few friends and Ben could have put some ideas together fairly easily.  And I loved that he listened to Jessica about where she wanted to be married, and chose that as her proposal site.  Seriously -- there is very little in a young woman's life that is more romantic than a man who LISTENS TO HER.  And I loved how, when entering the chapel, Jessa said, "He knows me."

Jill and Derick have a lot of good things to help them get through their early months of adjustment that is obvious - steady job, a nice house, lots of enthusiasm, but a man who listens and a woman who believes her husband knows her are as good a foundation to start a marriage as any I can think of.

[BucFan]

I hear, "Some folks call it a sling blade. I call it a kaiser blade."

Ha Ha Ha

I made a similar comment on The Dishing With The Duggars thread.

[Jellybeans]

We do not know what Ben has planned as far as a job, etc... We may all be surprised!

[GEML]

Has Jessa actually said they want as many children "as God gives us" or just that they want a whole lot of children?  Because those two statements are very different ones.  I'm assuming she's said the former, but she tends to play things close, and her word choices are usually deliberate.  And of course, Jill says it all the time, and is very explicit, saying things like, "So we won't be using anything to prevent that."  O....K.....

[wanderwoman]

So much snark...

Is this the Last Supper or something?

I had the very same thought. Interestingly, following that paradigm, Jessa was in the Jesus seat.

Jessa: "I couldn't wait to open that package!"

Lol, I bet

No joke! I giggled. It was also a guffaw moment when Michelle said, no lie, cuz I rewound it, "Bin had trouble getting his balls in the hole."

I practically speed myself.

"Six inches, hurray"

*snicker*

Thus whole scavenger hunt for an engagement seems so retarded. If I was Jessa I would have said no, just for all the crap I had to go through.

Yeah, Jessa was NOT feelin' it. But, that's what happens when two people are that young and expecting rainbows and unicorns in a proposal. He could've just done the Thorn Crown bit and she'd have loved it.

[zenme]

Joseph seems like a sweetheart who just goes with the flow.  He has kind eyes.  He also seems like a hard worker, and I really like that quality, especially in a young person.

[Adeejay]

In "normal" society, many would consider him too young to marry, but in their world, a 19-year-old marrying seems far more common.

 

It seems to be a regional thing.  The average age of a bridegroom in NYC is 28, so some of my co-workers can’t get over the fact that Ben is only 19 years old.  Jim Bob was also 19 when he got married, and based on the fact that Ben’s father is 39, I would guess that he got married at the same age or younger.

[GEML]

Perhaps Joseph is coming into his looks because he has someone fluffing his hair and making sure he's shaved????  :)

[lottiedottie]

I just rewatched and saw the dinner scene where they hold hands. OMFG, I loved Jessa's bitchface staredown about the hand holding. Everything in her face said she knows how stupid and arbitrary the 'no hand holding until engagement' nonsense is. They were about to pray before a meal and Michelle just about lost her shit. Pretty damn funny!

[Adeejay]

They were about to pray before a meal and Michelle just about lost her shit. Pretty damn funny!

 

The way Michelle kept yelling, " but not you two", I thought she was going to have a heart attack.  I loved how Jim Bob took one look at Jessa's "don't mess with me" face and quickly declared that it was okay as long as they are praying to the Lord and are in the presence of their parents.  I have a feeling Jessa is going to do things her way. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Adeejay

[Mariva]

Maybe Jill chose not to be involved. Now that she's a Married Lady she has responsibilities and can't just take a whole day away from home without her headship. :-\ She probably had morning sickness, then she'd have to pack a lunch and take it over to Wal-Mart to eat with Derick, then back home, chores (with no one to help her) and time to make dinner.

Then again, maybe Ben knew there was no fucking way Jill would have made it through the day without crowing about being knocked up.

Maybe TLC already had a crew at her house capturing more all about Jill footage.

I wasn't expecting Jill to join the rest of her family at the proposal site or anything. But I thought she would be involved in some other way, like Josh and Anna, who were in DC at the time but still was able to play a part in Jessa and Ben's engagement by paying for their dinner the night before. Maybe Jill could have helped pick out Jessa's outfit or even could have bought her a new dress. Like I said, I just found Jill's complete exclusion from her Jessa's big day somewhat strange.  The older girls are always talking about how they are each other's best friends (though some are more closer than others) and I find it hard to believe that Jill would decline to be involved if given the opportunity. Maybe it was just an oversight on Ben's part and he didn't mean to leave Jill out. At least I hope so. What I don't like is the thought of an rift developing between the two sisters because of past resentment or jealously issues. I'm probably overanalyzing this more than I should.

[joanofarch4]

Jill was busy?  Doing what?  No Amy, either (seems she always used to be hanging around the place), but Bin's two rather scary-looking sisters were front and center.  Look out, Joseph!

[Fuzzysox]

I don't see a big love fest between Jill and Jessa. Like all the other posters that said the girls looked more relaxed now that Jill is gone there had to be a reason they disliked her. Betting on her snitching about everything to mom and dad for her own brownie points while she threw whomever under the bus.

 

And the ball in the hole comment.........sounds like fundie porn to me. I know off to the prayer closet.

[joanofarch4]

I can't believe anyone can be as dumb as Bin and still walk around upright, but dang, that proposal was sweet!  Loved him shooting down his dad's pep talk with "I'll just let it flow" and then getting right to the point in a beautifully reverent manner.  The more I see of Jill, the more I'm on team Jessa!  Now if only they could've lingered, snuggled up to one another, in that gorgeous chapel as the sun set instead of the Duggars meet-n-greet thing in the parking lot.

[cereality]

I thought the proposal was nice and that church is beautiful; honestly he could just have done the proposal there and been done with it -- as opposed to the whole scavenger hunt up front. I liked that only Jinger was there and even then she sat in the last pew -- allowing them to talk without listening -- and not running down the aisle when she saw a frontal hug happening. She had even said earlier that she couldn't imagine saying during the proposal -- uh you're not supposed to do that; so they knew they could hug and it would be fun. Hell they could have and should have kissed and Jinger wouldn't have reported them. It would be much different if Jill had been around, as she'd go running off to mama and daddy for every little slight.

 

Why didn't they spend a few min in that chapel? It's beautiful, she loves it, and it would have been nice to snuggle up in a pew for 10 min before meeting and greeting both families outside. Is it because they thought the families would come barging in if they took too long in there?

 

Honestly I'm rooting for these two to be a success. Granted this is not what anyone wants for their daughter (or their son) in 2014, but I can see Ben realizing success the way that JB has or even the way his father has bc he has Jessa by his side. I think Jessa is savvy and holds everything close to the vest, but I can see her pushing Ben -- whether it's to stay in school and take insurance exams while working in the fundie circus; or whether it's down the road -- pushing him to invest in property or a business the way her parents did or his parents did w the prefab business. As much as the man is the headship, he's young and kind of quieter -- I can see this turning into a "woman behind the man" situation, which I think wouldn't be terrible for them.

Edited November 5, 2014 by cereality

[Adeejay]

I don't see a big love fest between Jill and Jessa.

 

 I don't think Jill and Jessa are particulary close.  The reason I say this is because when Derick was going to propose to Jill, he specifically asked for Jana and JoyAnna to be the chaperones.  However, Jessa and Jinger seem extremely close.  I have a feeling Jinger got in trouble for not reporting that Jessa and Ben shared a frontal hug.  Something tells me that wasn't the first time that Jinger turned a blind eye. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Adeejay

[floridamom]

I'd like to know how a real person would have afforded that proposal scavenger hunt. Did Ben have to pay for the trolley rental, train rental, people at the park to guard the roses, plane fuel, cars being at the locations, etc? I don't buy the whole family being involved like that.. It seems to me that the adults in those families are no more than kids themselves and it also seems that not a one of them has to go to work? They have waaaayyy too much time available to stick their noses in their adult children's lives. If Ben wanted to propose, great, how far was this Crown Thorn Church, I couldn't follow. I'm sure there was a very nice location for him to propose locally and be done with it. His words were what counted and they were nice.

Did anyone also notice in the kitchen at the Duggars that Jana and Jinger (of course) were doing the cooking in those army-sized pots? If Michelle did the cooking in that family, she wouldn't have time to critique if her adult daughter held her boyfriend's hand in the presence of others or not! I really hope that Jana is the next one to get the heck out of there and has the best husband of all so far. Jinger seems like she really doesn't give a care too much and Joy, well, she won't turn herself into a Jslave IMO.

[DamWrite]

Did Ben have to pay for the trolley rental, train rental, people at the park to guard the roses, plane fuel, cars being at the locations, etc?

 

Not a snowball's chance in H*E* Double Hockey Sticks.  The cost of the scavenger hunt was probably a very pretty penny for something that clearly annoyed Jessa.  (Then again, most things annoy Jessa.)  And I think it mostly annoyed the audience.  Well, it annoyed me.  I knew the proposal was coming and just wanted to see it happen.  The nonsense leading up to it quickly grew tiresome.  

 

That church was absolutely magnificent.  It would have been nice if Ben and Jessa could have stayed in that romantic (head) place rather than being met by 2 families in the parking lot.  Way to ruin an intimate moment.  

[CarolMK]

Just wanted to comment that I remember back when Josh proposed to Anna, they were in that restaurant in Florida (inside due to the rain) and yes, the camera crew was there, but Anna's parents decided to get up and go for a walk around the restaurant....so, this means no chaperones when Josh proposed to Anna. Is this chaperone around at every second a new thing with the Duggars and was it a bit more relaxes with Josh and Anna compared to Jessa and Jill's courtships?

[cereality]

Just wanted to comment that I remember back when Josh proposed to Anna, they were in that restaurant in Florida (inside due to the rain) and yes, the camera crew was there, but Anna's parents decided to get up and go for a walk around the restaurant....so, this means no chaperones when Josh proposed to Anna. Is this chaperone around at every second a new thing with the Duggars and was it a bit more relaxes with Josh and Anna compared to Jessa and Jill's courtships?

In that case Josh was the boy -- he didn't need a chaperone, and it was up to the Kellers to "protect" their daughter. They decided that their daughter being in a crowded restaurant at lunch hour with the guy who would be her husband in 3 months time was probably fine and were not worried about the chance of sex happening right in that booth. OTOH the Duggars are SO protective that they didn't trust their Godly daughter alone with the man who will be her husband in 3 months IN A CHURCH. Seriously even non religious people control themselves in church. What did they think Jessa would do if she was alone with Ben in a church?! I guess the same could be said re Jill and Derick on their wedding day -- spent the entire day at church with a chaperone trailing behind . . . .

[floridamom]

DamWrite, I thought TLC picked up that tab for storyline, just like they do for everything else that's episode material. Do we really think that Joshua Duggar's Visa credit card paid for that meal? Absolutely not. TLC did. I'm so tired of this show being more and more a fictional program.

[ChicksDigScars]

Okay -- it might just be me but when the hell did TLC turn into "The Duggars Network -- All Duggar/All Day". I swear it doesn't matter what time of day I turn to TLC there is one of their "special" programs airing . . .

 

They're in a little bit tough spot right now. They cut the Boo-boo's loose. They were supposed to air a new season and aren't going to, now. The Little Couple is probably filming, or off season. The Roloff's don't bring the ratings that they used to. And really, does anyone actually watch those idiot Gypsy shows? The Duggars are the ratings guarantee right now.  I think that they plugged the Duggars in during times that they were originally going to show Honey Boo Boo reruns.  So, they're getting more air time than planned.  Right now, if it weren't for the Duggars, I think TLC would be hurting a little bit. 

 

 

 

I have a feeling Jinger got in trouble for not reporting that Jessa and Ben shared a frontal hug.  Something tells me that wasn't the first time that Jinger turned a blind eye.

 

Oh, I think Ms. Track PANTS! wearing Jinger is right up there with Jessa as far as Duggar daughter rebellion. I just think she's nicer about it. Jessa just brings it more openly when it comes to bitch face and "too bad....this is the way I want it."  

 

Jill was busy?  Doing what?

 

Incubating.

 

Bin's two rather scary-looking sisters were front and center.  Look out, Joseph!

 

Oh you KNOW that Pops Seewald is hoping for another match with the Duggars so that he'll have even more of a connection. Fame by association. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by ChicksDigScars

[WasntMe]

That chapel was amazing! I'd get married there in a heartbeat, even though I'm a lifelong heathen! Well, if I wasn't already married, anyway.

 

I have a friend who was married there. Beautiful.

 

I felt really sad for Jinger when she said how much she was cherishing the day with Jessa, knowing at the end of the day she'd be engaged and everything would be different between them from then on.  :(

 

I really liked the scavenger hunt idea, I thought it was sweet. Of course, my husband thought it was stupid and kept making fun of it the whole time.  Which explains why when he proposed to me there was none of that romantic foolishness... 

[joanofarch4]

Who else has had a scavenger hunt on this show?  Oh, yeah; MICHELLE (on her "special" birthday).  I think if Jessa weren't so desperate to get married and out of that house, being forced to make a hole-in-one on a mini golf course and reach over strangers' heads for scattered roses would have really ticked her off!  Agree that Bin could've confined it to just the "thorn" clue and chapel proposal for a lovely engagement, but that wouldn't have been enough material to fill up an entire episode. 

[Mariva]

I don't see a big love fest between Jill and Jessa. Like all the other posters that said the girls looked more relaxed now that Jill is gone there had to be a reason they disliked her. Betting on her snitching about everything to mom and dad for her own brownie points while she threw whomever under the bus.

 

And the ball in the hole comment.........sounds like fundie porn to me. I know off to the prayer closet.

Really? I don't get the feeling that the girls disliked Jill. She was pretty close to Jana growing up and it's obvious that Joy clearly loves and looks up to her big sister. Jessa and Jinger always had their own buddy of two thing going on but still, I think it's incredibly rude IF Jill was deliberately excluded from all the festivities for the reasons you stated. Yeah, Jill might be a bit of a sanctimonious goody two shoes at times but she always seemed to mean well and I never got the impression that she was ever trying to be smug or mean-spirited in her actions as Jessa was sometimes apt to be with her "snarky" comments. Not to mention she's still their sister at the end of the day.

 

IMO Jill is just a product of the environment she grew up in, one where she was taught to obey her parents and account for any and whatever wrongdoings lest she burn forever in hell. I'm probably in the minority here but I really do emphasize with Jill. In a lot of ways, I think Jill, like Jana, was often taken for granted by her parents because she was so compliant growing up and the known "perfect" child. I know how tough it can be to feel that constant pressure to live up to other people's high expectations of you, whether it was justified or not. Jill could learn a lot from Jessa. I can only hope that after watching the show and seeing the positive reactions by the general public to the way her sister basically gave the big "FU" to her parents, Jill will come to realize that it's okay to be her own person and that she doesn't need to follow her parents on everything just to keep up appearances. 

[PityFree]

DamWrite, I thought TLC picked up that tab for storyline, just like they do for everything else that's episode material. Do we really think that Joshua Duggar's Visa credit card paid for that meal? Absolutely not. TLC did. I'm so tired of this show being more and more a fictional program.

Agreed. Especially since the Duggars would never have done anything worth filming in the entire 10 years without TLC prompting it or paying for it. Other than their inappropriate obsession with sex and making more Duggars, they really are very boring people. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by PityFree

[DamWrite]

DamWrite, I thought TLC picked up that tab for storyline, just like they do for everything else that's episode material. Do we really think that Joshua Duggar's Visa credit card paid for that meal? Absolutely not. TLC did. I'm so tired of this show being more and more a fictional program.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear.  Not a chance in hell that Ben paid.  The kid doesn't have any money.  That day of filming, as all days of filming, was totally subsidized by TLC.  I don't even think Ben came up with the idea.  If he did, it was just a vague one that TLC fleshed out for him.  

[Almost 3000]

All the Benessa dates and events that were planned to be revisited and remembered for the treasure were also moments that TLC filmed. Coincidence? Nah, TLC just needed to fill out an hour. I hope Jess and Ben scored some cash.

[mbutterfly]

They're in a little bit tough spot right now. They cut the Boo-boo's loose. They were supposed to air a new season and aren't going to, now. The Little Couple is probably filming, or off season. The Roloff's don't bring the ratings that they used to. And really, does anyone actually watch those idiot Gypsy shows? The Duggars are the ratings guarantee right now.  I think that they plugged the Duggars in during times that they were originally going to show Honey Boo Boo reruns.  So, they're getting more air time than planned.  Right now, if it weren't for the Duggars, I think TLC would be hurting a little bit. 

 

I want them to bring Clean Sweep and Peter Walsh. I loved that show. Yes, I know it will never happen. 

[wanderwoman]

There's no way Bin had to pay for that scavenger hunt. He probable sat with the producers and Jim Bob and figured out ways to trade the services for endorsements. The train company's name and location was blatantly shown, the trolley service is a city thing so I'm sure the chamber of commerce welcomed the attention. And, having all of those places prepped for filming required permits, security, and other considerations. My only question was, if Joseph met them at the Eureka Springs airport, why did John need to fly the girls down? The whole Duggar and Seewald clans drove. It's only 47 miles from Tontitown.

I get involving the siblings, but I thought the jender specific train ride was odd. Did they actually have food? The dining car looked set for tea but no one was shown eating. http://www.esnarailway.com/dining_car.htm

They have a lunch menu, so maybe? But, if you only look at that expense, you're looking at $500. It's about 4 miles from the station to Thorn Crown. They merely road the train loop for a while, then arrived back where they started so Jessa could be driven to the chapel.

Jessa, introvert or not, was being a bitch at the park. It would've been more meaningful if she had to find all of her family members around the park, waiting with a rose and a wish for her future. Having her walk up to random strangers to get a rose isn't "a challenge"- it's a grade A, dick move on the part of a 19 year old boy who likes the "everyone look at us" celebrity. Mr. Steward was practically salivating at the screen time he got.

[Mrsjumbo]

Jill was busy? Doing what? No Amy, either (seems she always used to be hanging around the place), but Bin's two rather scary-looking sisters were front and center. Look out, Joseph!

Yeah, I don't get Jill's non- involvement. I know she drives Derick to & from work. If it was too inconvenient he could have got a ride home so Jill could drive to Eureka Springs (a little over an hour away). Or he could have dropped her at the TTH before work & took the car himself & she could have carpooled with the Duggars.

[EtheltoTillie]

In that case Josh was the boy -- he didn't need a chaperone, and it was up to the Kellers to "protect" their daughter. They decided that their daughter being in a crowded restaurant at lunch hour with the guy who would be her husband in 3 months time was probably fine and were not worried about the chance of sex happening right in that booth. OTOH the Duggars are SO protective that they didn't trust their Godly daughter alone with the man who will be her husband in 3 months IN A CHURCH. Seriously even non religious people control themselves in church. What did they think Jessa would do if she was alone with Ben in a church?!

Well, they did do a full frontal hug! I thought that church really was magnificent.

I have to say that I for one didn't think that Jessa was annoyed with the scavenger hunt.  I thought she liked it.

[Mrsjumbo]

I want them to bring Clean Sweep and Peter Walsh. I loved that show. Yes, I know it will never happen.

I loved that show too.

[cereality]

Yeah, I don't get Jill's non- involvement. I know she drives Derick to & from work. If it was too inconvenient he could have got a ride home so Jill could drive to Eureka Springs (a little over an hour away). Or he could have dropped her at the TTH before work & took the car himself & she could have carpooled with the Duggars.

What was the timeline? Didn't Jessa and Ben announce their engagement like days before Jill's wedding (or was it something else -- I know there was some overlap of Jill and Jessa milestones)? Couldn't they have been busy with wedding prep? Or maybe Derick didn't want to be even an hour away with his mom being so sick and Jill not wanting to go because Derick didn't want to go? I don't see Ben leaving Jill out on purpose. I mean he called Josh and Josh would have been the easy one to leave out since he's out of sight. Besides in these kinds of families, I don't feel like you include or un-include someone -- the herd just goes along. So if Jill had been around when he was talking to the sisters about what was going down, she would have de facto been included -- at least been on the train and in the parking lot after, even if she didn't have a special role like Jinger. The fact that Jill wasn't there suggests that she wasn't included for that reason -- not because Ben senses Jill vs. Jessa tension.

Well, they did do a full frontal hug! I thought that church really was magnificent.

I have to say that I for one didn't think that Jessa was annoyed with the scavenger hunt.  I thought she liked it.

It would be too wild and crazy but if I was Jessa I would have said -- we're getting married at that church. Sorry mama and daddy, I don't care if you need to cut the list from 1000 to 200, that's what we're doing. But these kids only get so many FU moments, and I know Jessa is saving hers for the big stuff -- like not kissing at the altar; holding her sweetie's hand during a prayer; and whatever else she may be encouraging Ben to do even if it goes against her parents wishes -- like continuing school or something.

[Fuzzysox]

Really? I don't get the feeling that the girls disliked Jill. 

 

 

They don't dislike her as they want nothing to do with her but I'm sure they had to be really careful not to step out of bounds otherwise Jill would have snitched on them. The snitching is what they disliked and won't be missing.

[TobyBelle]

Hell, I'd be pissed if I had to go through all those hoops to get a damn ring on a my finger.

I'm not crazy about the scavenger hunt idea for proposal either. It reminds me of that lady whose boyfriend made her do an Amazing Race type thing for her proposal. It's like the girl has to earn her proposal and, sorry, dude, maybe I'm not that desperate for YOUR ring. I'd leave him hanging at the proposal spot. With that off my chest, it was a nice setting to propose where he did and even tho the whole family was included, I'm glad he didn't allow them in for the proposal itself.

However, I was kind of disappointed the whole thing wasn't a complete surprise for her. I guess that's where I'm a romantic. I'm jumping threads here, but I liked Josh's proposal. It didn't turn out the way he wanted, but I loved the look of shock and surprise on Anna's face at the restaurant. I felt Ben and Jessa's engagement was anti-climatic.

[zenme]

I have to say that I for one didn't think that Jessa was annoyed with the scavenger hunt.  I thought she liked it.

 

I think she was uncomfortable with the strangers that she was made to have contact with.

[GEML]

After seeing the talking head of Jill on the TLC site, I think she's been seriously hard hit by morning sickness. I barely got out of bed for three months with my first pregnancy and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Also, I think Derick actually takes his job seriously and doesn't take a lot of time off, and with a mother who is ill, and a wife coping with morning sickness, I think maybe a scavenger hunt just wasn't a big priority for them right now. And talking about their upcoming baby would take away from Jessa's moment, so I thought that was thoughtful.

[RazzleberryPie]

Jessa knew exactly what was going to happen from the beginning of the date preparation, and I think she was trying her best to soak in the moment without being smug or impatient. When she went ahead and kept holding hands, she was showing she knew the gig was up, and that they really couldn't do anything about it.

 

When it finally came down to the actual asking of the question, I think she and Bin appeared far more direct and mature than Jill's "yeah, totally."  I just wished she'd planted a big one on him, and made Michelle pop a vein. This also confirmed to me that they just wanted Jessa married off as quickly as possible, just like they wanted Josh married off. I don't think Jessa is inappropriate or promiscuous at all, but it's is terrifying to think a kid may be more likely to see thru the BS and be a little defiant, even if that defiance is just holding hands. When your mind is in the gutter and obsessed with sex, even the most innocent relationships are scandalous.

 

I'm not sure now if Jessa wasn't into Bin, or if she was just terrified that if they locked eyes or were nice, they'd immediately rip each other's clothes off and then split hell wide open, because she's kind of been brought up to believe that. Even if you know the rules/doctrine is goofy, it's hard to actually do anything about it sometimes.

[dillpickles]

However, I was kind of disappointed the whole thing wasn't a complete surprise for her. I guess that's where I'm a romantic. I'm jumping threads here, but I liked Josh's proposal. It didn't turn out the way he wanted, but I loved the look of shock and surprise on Anna's face at the restaurant. I felt Ben and Jessa's engagement was anti-climatic.

I suppose that can't be helped. I mean as soon as she said yes to courting she basically said yes to marriage. She probably knew it all along. Anna's family is probably different though.

[truthtalk2014]

After reading all the comments and having watched the show (actually, I had to replay the last half because I was so easily distracted last night) I feel this show is on its last last leg. 

 

I say that because I usually feel and look forward to so much snarking and fun.  I think the way Boob and MEchelle act, gets so old and boring.  They do the same thing over and over and don't get me wrong- I will still enjoy the snark aspect of the show- but I think that even their leg huggers are going to get over the same thing over and over.  

 

Ben and Jessa should have been married in that beautiful chapel with their closest friends and family.  That would have been so much cooler to watch.  I'm not looking forward to seeing a repeat of the huge horrible excuse for the union of a couple in love. I don't need to see Boob talk about giving another daughter away - nor do I care to see what monster of a dress MEchelle will come up with.  

 

Anyone feel the letdown already?

[Texasmom1970]

I can handle a few episodes covering the preparations and ceremony. I swear though if I have to hear, I am engaged to, or getting married to Ben Seewald every episode I am going postal!

[GEML]

I still like Josh and Anna's engagement best too. Because it was real, and not gimmicky and planned. I liked the wedding special too - no every last detail caught on tape for eight episodes.

[RazzleberryPie]

For all of the comments about Jessa steamrolling over Ben, Jill's the one who NEVER. EVER. EVER. let's her husband finish a sentence without interrupting and then talking over him.

[Shopgirl406]

Fun episode - especially the hand holding in the prayer and the hug!  I really didn't have a problem with Jinger being there.   It look like she had her phone out to take pictures.  It's pretty normal these days for friends or family to be somewhere in the background taking photos of the engagement.  I know TLC is there with all their cameras, but there's something sweet about having your own pictures that don't belong to the masses.  I wish all the best for Jessa and Ben.

[Mariva]

What was the timeline? Didn't Jessa and Ben announce their engagement like days before Jill's wedding (or was it something else -- I know there was some overlap of Jill and Jessa milestones)? Couldn't they have been busy with wedding prep? Or maybe Derick didn't want to be even an hour away with his mom being so sick and Jill not wanting to go because Derick didn't want to go? I don't see Ben leaving Jill out on purpose. I mean he called Josh and Josh would have been the easy one to leave out since he's out of sight. Besides in these kinds of families, I don't feel like you include or un-include someone -- the herd just goes along. So if Jill had been around when he was talking to the sisters about what was going down, she would have de facto been included -- at least been on the train and in the parking lot after, even if she didn't have a special role like Jinger. The fact that Jill wasn't there suggests that she wasn't included for that reason -- not because Ben senses Jill vs. Jessa tension.

Ben and Jessa got engaged sometime in early or mid-August so that was well after Jill's wedding & honeymoon. I think a poster mentioned the exact date somewhere in this thread. Jill and Derick told her family about her pregnancy in late July but it wasn't made public until literally a few days after Ben and Jessa's engagement. Which depending on how you look at it was either a coincidence or deliberate timing on someone's part. Another interesting thing was that Jessa didn't become active on social media until late July, which was right around the time Jill made her announcement to her family. That's when Jessa started in with all her "I love you Ben Seewald!" posts and people speculated that this was her way of putting public pressure on Jim Bob to allow her and Ben to finally get married. I think she was growing increasingly frustrated over her own courtship status and watching Jill get married first and then pregnant might have been what pushed her over the edge. I don't know if this was the source of tension between the two sisters but the fact that Jill apparently wasn't included in Jessa's proposal day only adds to the suspicions.

 

I don't think I would have found any of this as disconcerting if Ben hadn't made the comment about wanting to have Jessa's family be a part of the proposal only to leave out Jill, one of Jessa's sisters and supposed best friend (even though yea, only Jinger is her TRUE bff). If Jill couldn't make the drive up to Eureka Springs that day for whatever reason - morning sickness, didn't want to leave husband - surely it wouldn't have taken much for Ben to find another way to include her somehow like he did for Josh and Anna?

[zenme]

I just wished she'd planted a big one on him, and made Michelle pop a vein. This also confirmed to me that they just wanted Jessa married off as quickly as possible, just like they wanted Josh married off. I don't think Jessa is inappropriate or promiscuous at all, but it's is terrifying to think a kid may be more likely to see thru the BS and be a little defiant, even if that defiance is just holding hands. When your mind is in the gutter and obsessed with sex, even the most innocent relationships are scandalous.

 

I'm not sure now if Jessa wasn't into Bin, or if she was just terrified that if they locked eyes or were nice, they'd immediately rip each other's clothes off and then split hell wide open, because she's kind of been brought up to believe that. Even if you know the rules/doctrine is goofy, it's hard to actually do anything about it sometimes.

 

I agree, and I think that Jessa is a perfectly healthy young woman of her age.  I think she had probably had crushes before that Jimbo probably felt  he had to tame. He probably thought it was safer to marry her off quickly like Josh, because she wouldn't be modeling appropriate Duggar approved behaviors.  Then the other kids would follow suit, and all hell would break loose. 

 

I don't care for Ben.  He just seems so incompetent, but I do wish he and Jessa well.

[MarysWetBar]

I imagine that Ben planned things with the help of a TLC producer. But I would emphasize again that Ben isn't as sheltered as the Duggers are, in terms of things like that -- for instance, it appears, given his wedding party, that he has friends who attended college, and I'm betting he's been part of a church youth group and things like that. The scavenger hunt idea is very popular right now (admitted, for proms, but whatever...) and I'm betting a few friends and Ben could have put some ideas together fairly easily. And I loved that he listened to Jessica about where she wanted to be married, and chose that as her proposal site. Seriously -- there is very little in a young woman's life that is more romantic than a man who LISTENS TO HER. And I loved how, when entering the chapel, Jessa said, "He knows me."

Jill and Derick have a lot of good things to help them get through their early months of adjustment that is obvious - steady job, a nice house, lots of enthusiasm, but a man who listens and a woman who believes her husband knows her are as good a foundation to start a marriage as any I can think of.

You're a nice lady. I think i like you more than JBoob likes hairspray :)

[cereality]

New instagram photo of Jessa kissing Ben. Doesn't look like they publicly kiss the way that Derick and Jill do -- looks a lot steamier to me, esp the way she's holding the back of his head. Good for them though 3 weeks of this means she's very likely coming back pregnant.